00:00You want some Caleb Downs perspective from Ohio State coach Ryan Day. You got it right here. What he's so
00:06impressed with. Longer cut, but it's loaded with insights here on the safety from Ohio State. Caleb Downs, here's his
00:13coach.
00:14Back to recruiting. When Caleb was in high school, I watched him play. He was at Mill Creek. He played
00:20Buford, and it was one of the best games. He almost single-handedly beat them that night, and he was
00:26all over the field. Offense, defense, special teams, you name it.
00:30I remember walking away saying, I think that might be the best high school player I've ever seen live. Then
00:35it went on from there. When he decided to go to Alabama, that was a tough day around here. He
00:41called, and he was in tears and the whole thing.
00:44But he said, I want to go play for Coach Saban. I said, you know what? I get it. I
00:47get it. He's one of the best coaches in the history of the game and certainly an unbelievable developer of
00:53secondary players.
00:55But when Coach retired, he sent me a FaceTime message again. It was eerily similar to the one I got
01:02before, and I started to get nervous, but then he decided he was going to be a Buckeye.
01:05It really changed our last couple of years, for sure, because the minute he walked in the building, he just
01:09brought a certain level of maturity and professionalism to the table right out of the gate.
01:14You know, with Caleb, he does a great job of holding others accountable, and he communicates to a high level
01:20down there.
01:21So when he's communicating and he's making these calls and you see him come in the building early, the other
01:25guys in a room are trying to do the same thing.
01:27So wherever he goes, he's going to be surety for somebody who just turned 21 years old.
01:32Again, that's another guy who still has two more years of eligibility or at least one more year of eligibility.
01:38And I think, again, he's going to be in the NFL for a long, long time.
01:43And again, we'll have an impact the minute he walks in the building.
01:46So Ohio State coach Ryan Day, their best high school player he'd ever seen, could have played running back in
01:52college, communicating at a high level.
01:54What do you think the Giants are doing at five now? Is this styles or downs for them?
01:58They were talking about styles, is who they were talking about.
02:02And if they got completely wiped out, I think Dane did a pretty nice job of painting with the Giants.
02:08But working with the Giants the other day, I got the feeling that they were really looking at styles.
02:14You were on with their official .com?
02:16Yeah, their .com with John Smelk and those guys.
02:19John usually has a pretty good understanding of what they're thinking.
02:23But you've got a new coach there, and you've got a general manager who's really not a general manager.
02:29He's just kind of a glorified, like, bounce guy, get guys for the head coach.
02:36So maybe coordinate the scouts.
02:38So if you want downs, you're moving up to Cleveland, and it's realistic as long as the Giants don't take
02:43downs, you think?
02:43Or could downs go top four?
02:45Remember I told you yesterday, I talked to five general managers, right?
02:50Yeah.
02:50Four of them said there was a possibility that he would be there, right?
02:54At 12?
02:55At 12.
02:56No, that there wasn't.
02:57There was not.
02:58There was not a possibility.
03:00There was one guy who said maybe.
03:03But the other four of the five said no.
03:06They didn't think he would be there.
03:07I think if you're the Cowboys right now going into it, you have to act as if he's not going
03:11to be there.
03:11That's not a good enough chance.
03:13Yeah, I don't think so.
03:17The more pressing evaluation is, if we go to six, is he going to be there?
03:21Yeah, I mean, I think that the Giants would probably be the first stop for him to go.
03:26Like, I think Tennessee could take Stiles, possibly at four.
03:29The Giants at five, that'd be...
03:31I'm very interested in which way they go.
03:34All righty.
03:34Giants are going to get a really good player.
03:36Yeah, either way.
03:37And I'd love if the Cowboys were to get the other one, they'd be getting a really good player, too.
03:41I think that's ideal.
03:42But you've got to get to six.
03:44Yeah.
03:45You've got to get to six.
03:46If you don't get to six, then you've got to get to nine.
03:49That's the way I would approach it.
03:51Like, if we can't get Stiles or Downs, then we've got to get somebody.
03:57Would you just keep hammering on Arizona and see if you could get that pick for cheap?
04:02I mean, yeah, I would try that.
04:04I mean, that would just assure you would absolutely get the guy you wanted, right?
04:10Would you give up 92 and 20?
04:11Yeah, well, at three, now you're looking at Orville Reese or David Bailey.
04:15One of those two.
04:16And I think they'd probably have it.
04:18I mean, don't know for sure, but I would think that with them coveting an edge, that it would
04:23be Reese, Bailey, Stiles, Downs.
04:26See, at six, I wonder if you actually would get Downs.
04:31Yeah, if the Giants don't take him, I think you would get Downs at six.
04:34Because I think the Giants are taking Stiles or Downs.
04:36That doesn't seem like offensive line is their play.
04:38I mean, even McShay mocked Francis Malinoa today.
04:41And then he pivoted and was like, yeah, if I redid it, I'd probably give him Downs.
04:45Okay, let me get you some Louis Riddick here.
04:47He's got this about Sonny Stiles this morning on Get Up.
04:51Here's the former GM and the analyst for ESPN, Louis Riddick.
04:55That's really, I think you've identified exactly where I started, which is, do you want the
04:59one great player or do you want two good ones?
05:01That's sort of the way they'd be looking at it.
05:03But I think, yeah.
05:04I mean, I get it.
05:05I understand that you kind of like want more cracks at it and maybe you feel as though you
05:08can kind of fill a couple more needs.
05:10Sonny is can't miss, though.
05:12Yeah.
05:12He's cannot miss.
05:14Let me say that again.
05:16He is cannot miss.
05:17When you get him, you know you're getting a great player.
05:19You're getting a great person.
05:20And that's exactly what they need on that side of the ball where all we did was kill
05:24them last year and deservedly so.
05:26This guy will change that.
05:28Okay.
05:29Agree or disagree.
05:30Sonny Stiles can't miss.
05:32And then do you want multiple cracks at it?
05:34I really don't because I feel like if the Cowboys take multiple cracks at it, then they're
05:38going to assume those players are going to be good rookies.
05:41Get me one rookie who's got a great chance of being an impact player in 2026 and then let's
05:48go fill it in trades and summer free agency with more sure things that I can be confident
05:53in.
05:53I don't want to see them take any of these linebackers at 20 and put trust in them that
05:59they are going to solve your problems as a rookie.
06:01I want to trade for Jordan Brooks or sign a guy that gets cut in training camp that's
06:06a veteran like Eric Kendricks was for you a couple of years ago.
06:09What do you think?
06:10I love Sonny Stiles.
06:12I mean, I know, Brian, you've got him not as a round one player.
06:15I mean, he's a leader of the Buckeye program.
06:17His biggest games.
06:19Let's get this clear.
06:20Yeah.
06:20I don't hate the player.
06:22Oh, no.
06:23I don't.
06:24I mean, it's not like I've got him buried.
06:26I feel like there's things that you're going to have to work with this guy on.
06:32Like I say, you saw some improvement with second-level blocks or dealing with second-level blocks
06:38and stuff, but let's not get this twisted.
06:40You know, this is a player that I see somewhere between 14, 15, 16, somewhere right around
06:48there.
06:49You know, I just don't have him in my top 13.
06:53Which I will say is, I mean, that's big to have that because, I mean, he is, you look
07:00at other consensus top 10 boards.
07:01When does Dallas pick?
07:02At 12 right now.
07:03I don't give a damn where you think I have him.
07:06I don't give a damn where McShay or anybody else thinks I have him.
07:10Yeah.
07:10I did the work.
07:12No, I did the work.
07:13Nobody's saying that you didn't.
07:14No, no.
07:15I'm just saying, though, you're making it seem like I don't like the player.
07:18No, not at all.
07:19I am not interested.
07:20If you have him in the top five, that's great.
07:22I have Downs as my number one player on the board.
07:25Yeah.
07:26I would rather have Downs than Styles.
07:28I agree.
07:29Okay.
07:29Yeah.
07:30Let's not get it twisted, though.
07:31No, nobody's getting it twisted.
07:33I think the fact that you have him at 16, other people, and people do, we trust your
07:38work.
07:39That's why, because you're the only person that has him that far down your rankings.
07:43That's what I'm saying.
07:44It's my board.
07:45It's my evaluation.
07:47I've been wrong before.
07:48There's no reason.
07:49I've also been right.
07:50Yes.
07:50So if I want to put him at 16, that's how I look at it.
07:53And I'm not coming at you in a way that it's not.
07:56There's anything wrong with it.
07:58I just think that it was surprising to hear that that's where you had him.
08:01But that's how we've heard him talked about prior to that.
08:04But see, who's talking about him that way?
08:07Well, I think we've talked about him on the show that way.
08:09But who other than you and I?
08:11Other media scouts?
08:12Other national media scouts?
08:14Other national people.
08:14Other media scouts?
08:15Yes.
08:15If somebody from a team were to tell me, you got Sunday Styles wrong, if one of these
08:21scouts or general, if I called John Snyder right now and said that, if I called Elliott
08:26Wolf or I called whoever and asked them about that, and they said, no, you're completely
08:29wrong about that.
08:30I haven't heard that yet.
08:32I haven't heard that from anybody yet.
08:35When I do, then I'll say, you know what, maybe I'll adjust.
08:38But like I said, that's where I saw the guy right now.
08:43So, I mean, that's what my eyes tell me.
08:47It's my evaluation is what it is.
08:49Yeah.
08:50Yeah.
08:50And I think that's what's interesting, though, is because you have an evaluation that's
08:53different than just the general consensus.
08:55So it's fun to kind of figure out.
08:57I've had other different evaluations.
08:59We sat here and argued about that quarterback, Josh Allen.
09:02Yeah.
09:03We argued about him.
09:04I mean, people are like, you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong.
09:08It's my evaluation.
09:09Yeah.
09:09And I don't think it's a you're wrong thing.
09:11It's just a it's an interesting talking point to be like, OK, everybody feels one way.
09:15But our guy who's actually picked players in the NFL feels a different way.
09:20So when we're trying to figure out, should we trade up to go get this guy?
09:24Yeah.
09:24It's nice for you to say, here's maybe why you should be careful of that.
09:27If Dallas takes Styles, I have no problem with that.
09:32He's a damn good player.
09:33I have no problem with that.
09:35Let's not paint the picture that I'm against this guy.
09:38I hear you.
09:39I'm just different to where I see him in the value to the other players.
09:43You know, if they take him, if they trade up for Styles, that's a damn good pick.
09:48Yeah.
09:48He's a damn good linebacker.
09:50But if but in relation to if Downs is on the board or he's on the board, I'm taking Downs.
09:57Sure.
09:57Appreciate that clarification, Brian.
09:59Can't believe Zach's trying to misrepresent your work so much like this over here.
10:03I don't think so.
10:04I don't think that that's what I was doing.
10:06I think that you kind of misunderstood that.
10:07Well, whatever the case.
10:08But every time we start with this, it's the, well, you have him, you have him down.
10:13We just found that out yesterday.
10:14That's where you have him.
10:15No, it's always, I mean, if you, I've been that way, Zach, how many platforms I've been
10:19on with you talking about Styles?
10:21I never knew that you didn't have a first-round grade on him until you, you told them, told
10:25us that on yesterday or the day before.
10:27I never knew that.
10:28We've talked about Styles before a bunch.
10:30Yeah, but I really, I had no idea that he was not a first-round graded player for you.
10:34My apologies.
10:34I didn't know that he was a, which is, hey, and I get it.
10:37There's only so many first-round grades.
10:39It's not like you don't like the guy.
10:40Listen, your love for Rodriguez could be absolutely wrong or absolutely right.
10:47100%.
10:47But you did the work.
10:49Yeah.
10:50That's the whole thing.
10:51Where you put these guys should be important to you, not what everybody else thinks about
10:56it.
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