- 2 days ago
Leadership problems often appear to be strategy problems.
But many times the real issue is alignment. When leaders lack clarity about the principles guiding their decisions, teams lose cohesion, choices become reactive, and organizations slowly drift from their original intent.
In this conversation, Robert Glazer explains why most companies misunderstand core values, why common values rarely function as true decision filters, and how leaders can define principles that help guide hiring, culture, and long-term business decisions.
What You’ll Learn
• Why belief inside a company directly impacts sales performance
• The hidden structural mistakes that quietly sabotage sales teams
• How leaders unintentionally weaken revenue systems
• Why mindset, systems, and language drive sales success
• What it takes to lead clients and teams one relationship at a time
About Robert Glazer
Robert Glazer is a leadership expert, bestselling author, and founder of the global marketing agency Acceleration Partners. He has built organizations recognized as some of the best places to work and now advises leaders and companies on culture, leadership development, and decision-making. His book The Compass Within explores how individuals can identify their personal core values and use them as practical guides for leadership and life.
Sponsors & Partners
• Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide and offers everything you need to build, run, and grow an online store — from design and marketing to payments and checkout. Start your one-dollar-per-month trial at shopify.com/tony.
• For sponsorship opportunities, email ad-sales@libsyn.com.
Resources & Links Mentioned
🔗 Connect with Robert Glazer
robertglazer.com
🎙️ Listen to the Episode (audio/video)
insert URL when available
🎵 Explore Tony’s Music
tonydurso.com/music
📧 Get the Newsletter
tonydurso.com/news
Tony’s Closing Words
Use this and let’s help you Move on YOUR Journey to Success!
Just Take Action. – Success awaits those who persevere and remain steadfast despite the odds.
Sow good seeds, do good deeds and join me on the next episode.
leadership core values, why leaders drift, leadership alignment, decision making for entrepreneurs, business culture values, scaling leadership principles, personal core values framework, leadership clarity for entrepreneurs, building company culture, values based leadership strategy
But many times the real issue is alignment. When leaders lack clarity about the principles guiding their decisions, teams lose cohesion, choices become reactive, and organizations slowly drift from their original intent.
In this conversation, Robert Glazer explains why most companies misunderstand core values, why common values rarely function as true decision filters, and how leaders can define principles that help guide hiring, culture, and long-term business decisions.
What You’ll Learn
• Why belief inside a company directly impacts sales performance
• The hidden structural mistakes that quietly sabotage sales teams
• How leaders unintentionally weaken revenue systems
• Why mindset, systems, and language drive sales success
• What it takes to lead clients and teams one relationship at a time
About Robert Glazer
Robert Glazer is a leadership expert, bestselling author, and founder of the global marketing agency Acceleration Partners. He has built organizations recognized as some of the best places to work and now advises leaders and companies on culture, leadership development, and decision-making. His book The Compass Within explores how individuals can identify their personal core values and use them as practical guides for leadership and life.
Sponsors & Partners
• Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide and offers everything you need to build, run, and grow an online store — from design and marketing to payments and checkout. Start your one-dollar-per-month trial at shopify.com/tony.
• For sponsorship opportunities, email ad-sales@libsyn.com.
Resources & Links Mentioned
🔗 Connect with Robert Glazer
robertglazer.com
🎙️ Listen to the Episode (audio/video)
insert URL when available
🎵 Explore Tony’s Music
tonydurso.com/music
📧 Get the Newsletter
tonydurso.com/news
Tony’s Closing Words
Use this and let’s help you Move on YOUR Journey to Success!
Just Take Action. – Success awaits those who persevere and remain steadfast despite the odds.
Sow good seeds, do good deeds and join me on the next episode.
leadership core values, why leaders drift, leadership alignment, decision making for entrepreneurs, business culture values, scaling leadership principles, personal core values framework, leadership clarity for entrepreneurs, building company culture, values based leadership strategy
Category
🛠️
LifestyleTranscript
00:00Robert Glazer is a leadership expert and best-selling author who has spent years studying how core values actually function
00:08in real life.
00:10What are core values? And I'm talking about personal core values.
00:12They're the non-negotiable principles that guide your behavior and decisions.
00:16They're not the only things you value in life. It's just the top ones, the most important.
00:31Welcome back to the podcast. You know, entrepreneurs spend a lot of time thinking about strategy, don't we?
00:37We think about growth plans, execution, systems, and timing.
00:42But over the years, I've noticed that when things start to feel harder than they should, the issue usually is
00:50in strategy.
00:51It's misalignment. You know, people make decisions that don't quite sit right at times.
00:57Teams lose cohesion. Success shows up on paper, but clarity doesn't always follow.
01:04And often leaders can't immediately explain why. That's where today's conversation fits in.
01:10Robert Glazer is a leadership expert and best-selling author who has spent years studying how core values actually function
01:18in real life.
01:19Not as slogans or aspirational language, but as practical guides for decision making.
01:28Robert approaches values as operating principles.
01:31You know, the kind that influence who you hire, how you lead under pressure, and what trade-offs you're willing
01:38to make as things scale.
01:40He also challenges why many commonly stated values don't work, and why leaders often don't recognize that they really are
01:53out of alignment, or maybe even just a little bit, until the consequences show up.
01:58We're going to explore how values shape leadership behavior, how to recognize when something is off, and why clarity at
02:05this matter matters more as responsibilities and complexity increase.
02:10Check this out. If you're leading people, if you're building something long-term, or you're navigating decisions where the right
02:17answer isn't always obvious, this discussion is going to offer a thoughtful lens worth considering.
02:24Let's dive in. Let's go bring them on the show. Hi, Robert. Welcome to the Tony D'Erso Show.
02:30Tony, thanks for having me, and you set the table perfectly there.
02:34Oh, that's great. Because, you know, I'm very interested in why great leaders don't drift.
02:39I don't think I've ever heard that facet or that angle before.
02:43I've talked a lot about leadership over the years, and a lot of some of the things that we've talked
02:48about in terms of clarity.
02:50I've done a lot on clarity, and I'm curious, but before we get into that, I'd like to know a
02:56little bit more about you.
02:57How did it all start for you, Robert? What's your backstory?
03:01You know, it started with a mother and a father, and they got married.
03:06No, my story is, I think, typical. I've heard similar versions myself.
03:12I think I was a very creative, energetic, later diagnosed ADD kid, and as a result, I didn't like coloring
03:25in the lines,
03:25and a lot of the systems that I was in told me, you need to be better at coloring in
03:30the lines.
03:30And so I didn't really realize that I like to learn because I was bored about what I was learning.
03:38I was kind of constantly being told I wasn't meeting my ability level.
03:45There's some report cards I show when I present. I mean, they look like the same thing every year.
03:49They use the word capacity. I think he has more capacity. I think he's not doing.
03:53I just really wasn't interested in the things we were doing.
03:57And so eventually, that clicked. I figured out, you know, a passion for business and marketing.
04:03And I think that sort of that, you know, and I ended up writing a book on building capacity.
04:09And I talk a lot about, particularly in the context of values, how a lot of passion and pain are
04:16pretty tied together,
04:18you know, in terms of what you value.
04:19And so for me, really, I think that those that decade long time of, you know, being told, you know,
04:27I wasn't living my potential, that sent me into sort of overdrive for the next 10 years, kind of overdoing
04:33it.
04:34And then eventually, you know, realized I had a passion for helping people figure out their values
04:39and unlocking their capacity and meeting their potential.
04:41So I don't think that that is a coincidence.
04:45So I built a few different, started a few different companies, built a few different organizations,
04:51the largest of which is a global marketing firm called Acceleration Partners.
04:56But as I was building those companies, I kind of leaned into writing and found it was a good way
05:01to differentiate
05:02both to my team and the industries and started talking about the things that we wanted to do differently
05:07as a company, as a culture.
05:09And we had won over 30 Best Places to Work awards and eventually spent, you know, kind of exited that
05:16company
05:16on a day-to-day basis and started writing more and talking about leadership and sort of unpacking some of
05:23the things
05:24that we had done and getting passionate about this topic of values after building a course
05:31and seeing, you know, how people at our company evolved their leadership as part of our leadership development
05:37by figuring out what it is they valued and how to lead more authentically.
05:42So that's where I spend a lot of my time these days.
05:45I kind of work with companies and leaders.
05:49And my new book, The Compass Within, which has been the most successful to date,
05:54really dives into this whole aspect of personal core values.
05:59Robert, I'm really interested in this for several reasons.
06:05But one is, when I was growing up, it was all about, let me use the word, maybe it's not
06:11been used before.
06:12I call it heavy capitalism.
06:14It was just make money.
06:16Any way you can, it just didn't matter.
06:18It was make money.
06:20And that was the core value back then was just how are you going to make money?
06:24Just make it.
06:25And you may find it hard, especially for some of the younger generation, that they worked that way.
06:33But yes, it was.
06:34Though it seemed on the surface that there was more of a care value.
06:38But really underneath, it was just all how much can you make and how fast can you make it?
06:44And this is the companies that I worked for.
06:47And when we throw in core values, it's sort of like, well, it's nice.
06:52It sounds good.
06:53Maybe it sells.
06:54Maybe it brings in investors.
06:56Maybe it brings customers in.
06:59But we, some of us, I believe you're in that group, believe it's extremely important to have a really good
07:06core value.
07:07But there's some of us that we're just after money.
07:12So not me.
07:13I'm just others.
07:16So let's dig in.
07:18Is it important?
07:19Why is it important?
07:21What about high performers that are just trying to make a buck any way they can, no matter how they
07:25make it?
07:26I just kind of want to understand what's misunderstood, what's overlooked, and just kind of really dive into that a
07:31little bit.
07:32Well, let's separate two things.
07:33So there's company core values.
07:35And look, most companies have made a mockery out of these.
07:38And you can read the same Dilbert things everywhere.
07:40But when you see these really great companies who have these differentiated values and live by them and their behaviors
07:46are rewarded,
07:47and you really start to understand how that is the backbone of a company's culture.
07:53So there's company core values.
07:54And they say, look, these are the few things that we all agree to around here.
07:58We have to have some common principles that we agree to in some red lines.
08:02And that's the company.
08:04But individuals also have core values.
08:06And obviously, people are trying to line up their core values to accompany core values, either intentionally or on purpose.
08:13And that's a little bit different.
08:15And to me, that shows up in your leadership style and how you lead, whether you want to or not,
08:20you kind of lead from those values.
08:23So look, the money comes out of probably those things.
08:27You might have someone who grew up in scarcity, right?
08:30And they have a value to always provide.
08:33And the problem is every strength is a weakness.
08:35And so they develop this core value to be a provider or a protector.
08:41And then they just don't know how to stop.
08:43And they overdo it.
08:45And so what they were good at was making money and taking care of people.
08:48But then at some point, it became a liability.
08:51So there's a deeper reason that sits behind the thing.
08:54Money and achievement are our scorecard.
08:58And it's like, what do you...
08:59I mean, I said before, you know, I clearly had, you know, I had some, you know, angst isn't the
09:05right word.
09:05But I had some, you know, agitas about being an underachiever and then became an overachiever.
09:11So there's a lot of this stuff going on.
09:14And I think if you sit down with people and try to get to the root of what it is
09:18and why it drives them,
09:19you can maybe get to some more healthy behaviors.
09:23Very interesting.
09:24We're speaking once again with Robert Glazer.
09:27We're talking about values that scale.
09:29We're talking about why great leaders don't drift.
09:33We're just starting to get into it.
09:35And you can find out more and get his new book at robertglazer.com.
09:40Robert, we know how to spell that.
09:42Glazer is G-L-A-Z-E-R.com.
09:47Robertglazer.com.
09:48Robert, is there a point we talked, you just talked about it.
09:52You may have touched on it.
09:53But is there a point where you realize, I guess the best way to say it is that values aren't
09:58just personal.
09:59But they're, you mentioned it, they're foundational to leadership.
10:02How do we run into, how do we work as well with, how do we work with a company that
10:07has their values, but we have our own values.
10:10I've run into trouble with that, working in companies that had different values that I didn't feel were quite right
10:17against my values.
10:18Let's kind of dive into that.
10:21So, yeah, everyone's super interested in the alignment.
10:24And I think a lot of times we make a core values decision.
10:27The analogy that I use is, imagine you have a sports car and I take it in a tunnel, a
10:32dark tunnel, but I can see to the other side.
10:36But the lights are off in the tunnel.
10:37I'm going to drift to the right.
10:39I'm going to hit the wall.
10:40It's going to make a horrible sound.
10:41I'm going to pull it back to the middle.
10:43I'm probably going to overcompensate.
10:45I'm going to go to the other side.
10:46It's going to make a horrible sound.
10:47I'm going to get to the end of the tunnel and I'm going to get out there, out of it.
10:51But the car is going to look like crap.
10:52It's going to be all beat up.
10:54I think that's how a lot of us operate with our core values.
10:57We kind of know like, oh, that was bad.
10:59Like, I got to get away from that.
11:01And then I hit the other side.
11:02It's kind of like if you were in a field and there were electric fences, but you couldn't
11:06see them, right?
11:08So, but the goal would be like, I don't want to get electrocuted.
11:12And so I say like, if you have clear articulation of those values, which most people don't have,
11:17it's like turning on the lights in those tunnels, seeing the white line, which is your value,
11:22not crossing it and hitting the wall.
11:25So the first thing, before you have alignment, you have to have clarity.
11:29So you need to understand your own values and not in a one word platitude way, but in a
11:34deeper way.
11:35And there's the formula for this in the book.
11:37And then you can start saying more clearly, oh, this is why this boss and this company
11:43doesn't work for me.
11:43And this is why it never will.
11:45But you need to have that clarity on your own side of the house.
11:49And so this is probably a good time to sort of get some definitions right.
11:55So what are core values?
11:57And I'm talking about personal core values.
11:59They're the non-negotiable principles that guide your behavior and decisions.
12:02They're not the only things you value in life.
12:04It's just the top ones, the most important.
12:07So importantly, they're intrinsic, not aspirational.
12:10They reflect who you actually are, not who you want to be.
12:13This is a huge struggle for people.
12:15They kind of feel like it's a marketing thing or they don't want to say like, I'm a skeptical
12:19person when that is a strength for them and then that being skeptical is actually one
12:24of their values.
12:25They're consistent.
12:26They show up across all areas of life, work, relationship, and personal decisions.
12:30And they're clarifying.
12:32They help you make better decisions about what work to do, who to spend time with, where
12:36to live, et cetera.
12:38So that is the definition of what I would call an actionable core value.
12:45And if you take the sort of, I know when I hit the wall versus I know where the lines
12:53are, you can start to be more intentional and understand environments that are going
12:58to work and not going to work.
12:59I have had multiple people who've read this book and done this work.
13:02They haven't told me about divorces or breakups, but they've told me about leaving companies
13:06and moving and changing environments and really having that realization around, I'm not aligned
13:13in what I call the big three, which is your partner that you choose.
13:18If you choose one, your vocation, which is the type of work you do or where you choose
13:22to do it.
13:23And then there's your community, which could mean where you live or where you spend your
13:27time or who you enact with.
13:29Without core values alignment, I don't think those things will survive in the long run.
13:34And when you're talking about your big three, who your partner is, where you live and where
13:39you work, the more you make those decisions, sorry, the less right you make those decisions
13:44and the more you keep having to make them, generally the worse it is.
13:48As I'm thinking through this, even for business owners and entrepreneurs where you think you
13:55don't have a boss, well, you have pressure, you have the industry, you have subs, you have
14:02agents that work with you.
14:04You have needs, you have their needs and your needs.
14:07So there's a point where those personal values can become confused or cloudy and yet, but
14:18you're almost in a compromising position sometimes.
14:22I guess that's the best way to say it.
14:23So whether you work for someone else or you work for yourself, you're going to run into
14:27things where it wouldn't be the right way, but maybe you can make some money at it.
14:31So how do you navigate through that?
14:34Now I've got my, my take on that, but I wanted to, you know, you've got this very good book
14:40on the compass on how to, um, to navigate through this.
14:45So I kind of want to dig a little bit more into that because I think it's a very important
14:49topic, whether people realize it or not, it's extremely important for our future out here.
14:55Look, there's, there's short term that we're all not going to be aligned with things and things
14:59that we have to work for, but generally if you try to stay in the longterm to something
15:03that is, uh, that is countersinked to, to one or more of your values, you're either going
15:08to feel a little bit each day, like someone's knocking you on the head, right?
15:12Or you're going to push that all down and subjugate it and say, I just got to hold my nose
15:16and
15:17do it.
15:17And then my experience is that it, that blows up spectacularly month later, later, you know,
15:22when, when it's kind of like steam that you're trying to, uh, sort of hold in.
15:29So I, I've given people this advice similar though.
15:31Like, so if I realize I'm in a lot of alignment, should I quit my job?
15:35And I'm like, well, maybe you should decide to quit your job, but not quit it yet.
15:39Because you might have a core value of take care of those around me and actually putting
15:44your family in financial harm would violate a value that maybe is even higher up for you
15:50than, than the value that's frustrating you about your company.
15:54But just even making that decision could be helpful.
15:57Like I'm not, I'm not gone yet, but I understand that these people don't match my values and
16:01I'm, I'm going to move on.
16:02So we all can't have the, there's, there's the realities of the world.
16:07This entire subject is a very, um, and I don't say it, but it's a first world privilege problem.
16:13There are plenty of people who have to wake up and stand in front of a machine and just
16:17do whatever they can do to make money.
16:18And then I think those people then leave work and try to figure out how to connect to their
16:23values.
16:24Um, but, but we all can't have that Jerry Maguire moment, uh, even though we may wish for
16:30it sometime.
16:31So yeah, certainly there are pragmatic considerations, but if you know these things, you can start
16:36thinking about how to react some of your time, you can change your volunteer activities.
16:40You can ask for different projects at work.
16:42Like there's a lot of things that you can begin to do outside of just quitting.
16:48You know, years back, I was in that exact same point.
16:51I'm not going to mention too much about it, but I was in exact, in that exact same point.
16:55And I made the decision, you know, of what I felt was right.
16:59And it changed, it changed my life.
17:01It changed everything.
17:03It actually was a little bit of an adverse change, but eventually it became a lot better,
17:10though.
17:10You don't think that way at first, when you kind of walk away from what you think is a
17:14good deal.
17:15Well, let me, let me, let me double click on that.
17:17Cause I think you highlighted something that's really important.
17:20Core values decisions usually cost you something.
17:23They cost you a relationship, a job, money.
17:25They are harder upfront and in the moment, but they age like a great wine, right?
17:32And, and, and, and shallow decisions that are tried to just get through the day.
17:36And they age like cheap vinegar, right?
17:39Where, where you made it and you stopped the Twitter mob of the day, you stopped the thing
17:44of the day, but over time that decision looks worse and worse and worse, you know, and you
17:49can't really stand by it.
17:50Let's, but let's not pretend that core values decisions are free and they're really hard to
17:54make when it goes in the face of the way that the current's going.
17:58And that's, and, and if your values are going with the current, you don't get credit for
18:02making that decision, right?
18:03You don't, if everyone's quitting something and you decide to quit like that, that's easy.
18:09The people that are standing by their values, look, I am not a fan of either political party
18:14in our country right now, but I appreciate the candidates like Liz Cheney or otherwise who,
18:21who, who take a stand against their own side and, and it costs them like that.
18:25I, that's hard.
18:26Um, and it's much easier just to go along.
18:30Well, you know, when you walk away from six, seven digits, it, it, it, it can be devastating.
18:36And those that may depend or look on you, uh, it don't understand you're now, you're now
18:42like a big zero in front of them.
18:45And you don't think that you're going to be good wine later.
18:48You think right now you're, you're the worst vinegar, but you just know that it was the
18:53right thing and that there's a better way to do it.
18:54So it becomes very, very tough, uh, even though it can, and it does, you don't think about the
18:59future that way that it's going to get better, but you kind of, you just know it's right.
19:05And for you, you may have touched upon this.
19:07I'm wondering, is there a point where you realize that your values aren't just personal,
19:11but they're, they're, they're really foundational on who, who you are as your business and, and,
19:18and what your business is going to do.
19:20Look, the values are pretty hard-coded by the time you're 20.
19:24And there's a reason for this.
19:26Like our moral intuition forms before our moral reasoning and judgment.
19:30You learn what you like and what not you like and how to survive.
19:33And, and it just becomes an intuitive sort of way of, of living.
19:38And so if you start a company, it's not surprised that you're going to intentionally or unintentionally
19:43try to do that in your align, align with your values, find people.
19:47And I don't think a company's value should mirror the founder's values because you're
19:51trying to find some commonality, but there's going to be a lot of dotted lining and there's
19:56going to be a lot of rhyming.
19:58I mean, why would you want to start a company?
20:00That's not an image of what you believe in that, you know, the whole notion of that seems
20:05strange.
20:08Yeah.
20:09It can't, it starts off that way, but once the company grows or you have partners or
20:14you have other investors or other people that may have a say, so it starts to change.
20:19And if you don't watch it, there comes a time where you go, I didn't sign up for this.
20:23This is not what I started.
20:25This is not the core value.
20:26This is, this is not me.
20:27What do I do?
20:28And it's a really, really tough spot.
20:31And, you know, we hear these words, oh yeah, you know, get in character and integrity,
20:37you know, but, uh, it's really, really, really tough.
20:42Um, what do you do when you're in that kind of situation?
20:45You know, what are some of the points, you know, if there's someone in the audience here
20:48that is in a tough spot or tough bind where things aren't the way that they want you, you
20:53hear, we hear of these founder stories all the time, big names, but the founder says, this
20:58isn't the company I started.
21:00Yeah.
21:01Well, I, I, how about, uh, I'll share an example.
21:04Uh, you know, as a miss funny, as a member of YPO, we always talk about like in my experience,
21:08but I'll share an example.
21:09Um, so Jason freed and David Heinemar Hanson to, to the founders of base camp, super popular
21:17project management software company.
21:19They're known for doing everything against the rules.
21:21They wrote a world called rework.
21:23They were, you know, didn't raise VC money as a tech company.
21:27They were remote, uh, early on, they kind of worked in a totally different way.
21:32And, and in 2022 at the sort of a lot of the height of the social justice fervor and movement,
21:39um, they became despondent that politics were taking over their 50 or 60 person company.
21:45And they didn't really want it.
21:47And they said, look, there are gonna be no politics here.
21:49You can be political, do whatever you want, but there's no politics, our internal channel.
21:52We're not talking about politics at work.
21:54We find it decisive.
21:57And it was a personal core value.
21:58We're about bringing people together, whatever.
22:00We just find this decisive.
22:02And they looked at each other and they said, look, this wasn't like a corporate game.
22:06They said, if this is how it's gonna be, let's close up shop.
22:09I don't want to come to work and, you know, and, and, and, and live this way.
22:14And so this was before Elon Musk bought Twitter and Twitter was, you know, whipped up in a cancel culture
22:20mode.
22:20As soon as they announced this, everyone called them.
22:23They were, they were gonna be on the wrong side of history.
22:25They weren't taking any political stance.
22:27They were saying, we don't want politics at work.
22:29You could do it elsewhere.
22:29And if you don't like that, we're happy to help you find a job elsewhere and give you a severance
22:34package.
22:34Like there was, there was, but this is not, we're a software company where this is not what we want
22:39to spend our days doing.
22:41And look, the world came after them.
22:44Friends told them you're gonna be on the wrong side of history.
22:47You know, fast forward three years, companies still profitable, no investors, record amount, happiest employees they've ever had.
22:55As soon as they survived the initial people leaving, they had 10 times the amount of employees applying to work
23:01there that wanted to work somewhere where there wasn't politics in the work.
23:04And the friends started calling them years later, the friends whose companies probably performatively weighted into a lot of politics
23:11and social justice stuff, let their product fall off the map and got themselves in a mess, called them and
23:16said, you know what, we were totally wrong.
23:18And so in the moment, Basecamp wasn't sure if it was gonna survive.
23:22Three years later, Basecamp is absolutely thriving and having the best years of its life, where I would argue a
23:27lot of companies who weighted into this mess are not.
23:32And so that to me is, I interviewed David Heinemar Hanson.
23:37He's a spectacular entrepreneur.
23:39And I was like, look, I just decided we'd rather shut it down than it become this political ideological, but
23:47it's not what we were, it's not what we started the business on.
23:50It's not what our customers were on and nothing on it.
23:52And so like, that's a stand, you know, that's a values based stand.
23:58Totally get it.
24:00Let's talk about the specific criteria that makes a value effective.
24:05What are the qualities that separate real values from like empty words?
24:11Like, let's kind of dig into that.
24:13Yeah.
24:14So I talked about the intrinsic, consistent and clarifying.
24:17Once you get to the, if you walk through the process.
24:20So the process I have starts with answering six behavioral based questions.
24:25And that's kind of how it all starts.
24:28And that's in the book.
24:28If you want to see all those questions, you go to robertglaser.com slash six, and I have them all
24:33listed out.
24:35So this is like in what non working environments are you highly engaged?
24:39What quality advice do people come to you for?
24:42What would you want said about your near eulogy?
24:45What really drives you nuts about people?
24:47And you're trying to answer all these questions and get a lot of raw data.
24:50And then there's a synthesis process.
24:53The thing about my process is pretty unique.
24:55What a lot of coaches who have done this work forever have said is what I have next is this
25:01thing called the core validator.
25:02And it's how do you get from a theme to an actionable core value?
25:08And, you know, that is, that is sort of really the, these four questions.
25:12So the first two questions are about, do you have the right theme?
25:15And the second questions are, you have the right label.
25:17And so the first question is, can I use it to make a decision past or present?
25:22If the whole point of a core value is clear, then the theme should be clear enough that you could
25:27make decisions around it.
25:28Like, is it short term?
25:30Is it long term?
25:30Is it truth?
25:31Is it whatever?
25:31If it's amorphous enough that you could never actually use it as a decision making rubric, probably not the right
25:37theme.
25:37The one that people have the most fun with, because we talked about, I think, you know, one thing that's
25:43really clear is like the, when a core value is violated, it doesn't feel really good.
25:49So this is the anti-value test.
25:50If you think about the opposite of whatever this thing is, does it drive you crazy, strike a nerve?
25:57You know, Tony, if we were talking through one of your values and I invented an avatar and I said,
26:01you're going to meet this person at a party and they're the opposite.
26:04Usually if I'm doing this live and I'm like, how does it feel like talking to this person?
26:09You don't even have to answer because I can see it in your face.
26:13Like it's a, it's a physiological reaction to your core value being violated because I'm inventing a personality that is
26:20like violating your core value.
26:22So that's, do I have the right theme?
26:24And then do I have the right wording?
26:25Is it a phrase or more than one word?
26:27One word core values just, just don't meet the threshold test.
26:31And then could I objectively rate myself on it?
26:34Like, is it worded in a way where I could say I'm doing this or I'm not doing this.
26:37And if you pass all four of those questions appropriately, and I have a tool to help you do this
26:44kind of little GPT tool.
26:46But it, then your core value is validated.
26:48It's, it's, it's, it's clear that it bothers you.
26:51You can probably connect to where it came from.
26:53It's helpful in decision-making and you can objectively rate yourself on it.
26:57Most core values don't pass those tests, but these ones that do are inherently a lot more helpful.
27:04Very interesting.
27:05And as I'm thinking with this, I'm wondering, well, okay, so we've got a leader and how, and we've talked
27:12about how important these values are.
27:14Well, I think we should talk more about why these values are important, but let's just stick with the, with
27:20this one train of thought.
27:21How can they tell when they're out of alignment?
27:24Because you, you know, as you talked about, influence starts coming in.
27:28It's slow.
27:29You know, what, what is that, uh, uh, not phrase, but you put a frog and boil in water and
27:34you turn up the heat.
27:35So you don't notice it at first.
27:37So after a while you go, things are toxic here or too political or to whatever.
27:43This is not the core value of the company.
27:45How can you tell when you're out of alignment?
27:48It just doesn't feel good.
27:50Like alignment feels like you're in flow.
27:52It's easy.
27:53It's like that friend you haven't seen in five years and you sit down and you have a drink and
27:57it's like right where you left off.
27:59And it's just so easy versus put, I don't know, the relative of yours that has in law in it,
28:05where you sit down and you're like, I just can't stay one word before this turns into like, like those
28:10are the, that that's the difference of what it should feel like.
28:13Right.
28:13It's, it feels right or feels like you want to fight it and you want to push against it.
28:19Uh, those, the, again, if we played that opposite, you know, test or did it, like you'll see that people
28:25are physiologically like, no, I, in fact, if I asked them what's something you really don't like a behavior, they'll
28:32start the sentence and even say, you know what?
28:34It's something I don't like, blah, blah, blah.
28:35And they get to the end of the sentence and you're like, no, I hate that.
28:38And you can then, and you can see that their, their reaction changes where it's like, no, no, I can't
28:43even pretend that it's just not like this.
28:45This really frustrates me.
28:49I totally get you on that.
28:50And I'm thinking, you know, we, I think we all know people, at least I hope so, where they, they
28:57kind of, especially your friends, if they get into a situation like that, they'll tell you, you know, I just
29:03don't feel, I like to move out or, or I like to get a better job.
29:07Or I don't like my company.
29:09You know, they start, they start and confide in you and tell you something has changed so much that they
29:15don't like where they are.
29:17Things are out of there.
29:18Okay.
29:19So when, when you get to that point, you, you know, you're really out of alignment, but is it, it's
29:24not necessarily your core values.
29:27It's the core values of what others have brought in or have influenced into your, into your environment.
29:34And you have, you, you have so, you have some control or no control or, or.
29:40Right.
29:41To some degree, you have some control, but you still, now you got to deal with it.
29:45Yeah.
29:46And like I said, it, I'll, I'll keep saying it.
29:49Cause it's, it's, these things are, once you have the clarity of why and which value is and what's going
29:55on, it's much easier to understand how you can make a decision or is it solvable or not.
30:01It's hard to have the alignment without the clarity.
30:03What you know is you're annoyed, but you don't understand why.
30:06And what I've done with work with this people and they have the epiphany and they have the language to
30:10say, I'm frustrated because this environment acts like people are better than other people.
30:16And, and my core value is no one is better than anyone else.
30:20And they can see what's going to be fixable and not.
30:23And, and it just, it just clicks.
30:25Um, and again, they may not be able to do anything overnight, but, but there's kind of no hiding from,
30:32I was saying to someone yesterday, they were in a totally different context, but you know, some sunlight is the
30:36best disinfectant.
30:38Right.
30:38And so I think when you have real clarity on this, you, I, you just know this is solvable or
30:44this is not solvable.
30:45And it matters.
30:47Are we, do we have, am I, do I work with someone?
30:50Your core values are never in unison.
30:52They need to sort of be in harmony, but where they can't be like opposite magnets.
30:57So I might have one opposite magnet with someone.
30:59I call that kind of a danger zone.
31:01My wife and I have this around one area that we just have fundamentally different views, but we've learned to
31:07navigate that.
31:08So, but if I have four of those opposites, you know, and we have to spend all day navigating that,
31:14like, I just believe that that's too hard.
31:18I'm not saying you can't do it, but you're just going to spend all day.
31:24There are things where you're like, I know my inclination is this, but I need to suppress it because in
31:28this case, it causes a problem.
31:30You can do that with one aspect of your personality.
31:33If you have to do that with all aspects all day, it's like too much work.
31:37It's just like rowing the canoe up the waterfall.
31:41You can do it.
31:42It's just not super, it's not a, it's good exercise.
31:45It's just not really like a great way to live.
31:49Totally.
31:50You know, as you're saying is not, not that this is part of this interview, but it's making me think
31:56of, you know, we know, I think we all know people later in life.
32:00They, they'll tend to talk about regrets.
32:01Oh, I regret that I didn't do this, or I regret that I didn't do that because their core values
32:06change or they didn't stay strong with their core values while influences came in.
32:11So, and I'm thinking that way of as, as we're talking about it.
32:17And while I want to go further down that road, I want to make sure one thing that our audience
32:22walks away with, and that is, I really want to get a better understanding of what's in your book.
32:28How can it help us as entrepreneurs and business people?
32:31What can we learn from it?
32:32You've talked about different things, but I want to get, I really want to get this more in my head
32:36and a better understood.
32:37What can we do?
32:39How can your book help us?
32:41Yeah.
32:42I mean, I mean, book is, is the book is actually a parable.
32:46So it is a story about a young professional named Jamie, who is seemingly has everything, but is running into
32:59some core value alignment issues in his big three and meets a mentor who helps him figure out these core
33:06values.
33:07And then he has to decide where he's going to decide to make these changes in his life or not.
33:12And then you basically watch Jamie be coached and make these decisions.
33:16And then the book gives you the entire framework behind it afterwards.
33:20So it's what we talked about the six questions and the core validator and the synthesis and how to, how
33:24to begin the same process that the character used to figure out their core values.
33:29So the book is pretty short.
33:31It's about an hour and 20 minutes, but everyone who has read it has really said that like, they just
33:37see Jamie in themselves.
33:39Jamie is a mirror.
33:40Jamie reminds you of a conversation with a boss.
33:42It reminds you of a conversation with a past partner or a job and helps you sort of see the
33:48issue as it plays out in, in, in, in real life and with real dynamics.
33:56So, um, that's, I, I think the book provides the sort of, I, I was literally just at a, uh,
34:02uh, event with a family member and they were like, I read the book and actually my wife read the
34:06book and act, it led to a whole discussion about our town.
34:09And, you know, she feels connected to the community and I don't, and, and why is that?
34:15And should we be moving and should we not be moving?
34:18And so that's the sort of prompts I've had people write me from all around the world around.
34:22They've made changes to jobs and community.
34:24I'm sure they made changes to relationships.
34:26They're probably not writing to tell me that, nor do I want to be responsible for that.
34:30But, uh, the, the, the, it, it, it really gets you thinking and, and it shows you through a story
34:37and then it gives you the tactics if you want to do the work.
34:40Robert, while you're saying this, I was thinking of these scenarios that we've talked about in our life.
34:46The one thing that really can help get past these points where you feel you're up against the wall, the
34:52rock, the hard place.
34:54I don't like this way.
34:55I don't like this direction is get them.
34:58Not that I'm trying to cut to the, uh, to the, uh, to cut to the chase particularly, but it
35:02seems like getting a coach or consultant or a mentor to go over and help you may be a good
35:09way to navigate where you feel you're up against the wall and you're not quite sure what to do.
35:14Yeah.
35:15Yeah.
35:16Again, you gotta do the, the, the two things where people have said to me, like, what, where, where's the
35:22sort of struggles with this one?
35:23Everyone's looking for the quick fix.
35:25I mean, I spent six months on this and I've built a course and a book and a training and
35:30a GPT and yet still people want the like quicker fix.
35:33Like you gotta do this work and you gotta do it for yourself.
35:35Um, but then you should put it out to the people in your world and your loved ones.
35:40Like, does this sound like me?
35:42Is this who I am?
35:43And you should sort of vet that.
35:45And then I think you can get the help and support you need in, in different areas.
35:49Gotcha.
35:50Roger, uh, Robert, Roger on that.
35:53Um, I'm thinking the one thing we may not, we may have touched on, but I want to make more
35:58clear in that is there's real world consequences that happen.
36:02If you, if you do ignore or violate that core value, you may think you're doing well.
36:07We've seen companies collapse and so forth.
36:09We've seen all sorts of stuff.
36:10I want to go over if we, if we don't, uh, uh, pay attention to that and deal with it.
36:18What are the, what are the potential consequences or, or issues that could result from that?
36:24Yeah.
36:25Look, good is the enemy of, of great.
36:28Um, we're, when something's really bad, we're willing to look for solutions.
36:31But, um, you know, I heard a story recently about someone who was in a comfortable position that did not
36:37align with their core values.
36:38Uh, and they kind of looked the other way because it was comfortable and, uh, eventually it blew up and
36:45it's been a long recovery.
36:47And, and, and then they were associated with people and things that they didn't want to be associated with.
36:52And it's been a big hole to dig out of.
36:55So, you know, by not sort of cutting the, you know, lucrative salary or whatever a year short, uh, they've,
37:03they've been dealing with the consequences of that for, for years after.
37:07Um, and it's hard to explain away.
37:08So that that's, like I said, it's almost inverse.
37:12If you don't take your pain up front, you often take more pain later.
37:15And if you take your pain up front, it often gets better later.
37:19Um, that's just been my experience.
37:21Cause you just, you're, you're just confident when you do something, uh, align with your values.
37:26But we, we all do this.
37:27We all fall into it.
37:29And for sure, the problem with something is when it's good enough and we don't want to rock the boat.
37:35And we know there's a problem and we know this person's a problem.
37:38Um, and, and if you, if you choose to associate with people who don't share your values and you do
37:43that for a while,
37:44and then they do something horrible, uh, you know, that you're, you're sort of guilty by association in some cases
37:53and, and, and depending on what happens.
37:55And people are going to look at you and be like, well, you were with this person either personally or
37:59professionally.
38:00And clearly this couldn't have been the first time this happened.
38:03So I, I, that is, I think that's where people get into the biggest trouble is sort of complacency.
38:10As you said, the money, or I'm finally making the money I wanted to make.
38:13I want to do this.
38:13I know I'm compromising everything about myself, but I'm finally at this place and it's, you know, making this part
38:19of my life better.
38:20And probably that won't last.
38:23Yeah.
38:24Uh, it makes me think of an analogy, which probably could be one of the worst analogies I've ever used,
38:29but it's great concept.
38:31And that is, I saw a person, I saw a video once of a person riding through a field on
38:37a motorcycle.
38:39And the tall grass and the tall grass was holding a very deep hole and that person fell into it
38:45and got very hurt.
38:46And I'm thinking that's what happens where you just think you're having fun.
38:51You're going through the grass.
38:52You're we, you know, uh, you're making the good money, six, seven or whatever digits, everything is great.
38:58But when that, when that consequence comes and you don't see it, it's very hurtful.
39:04But if you knew it was coming, that's the whole thing.
39:08You can deal with it a lot better.
39:09You still might get hurt.
39:10You still might fall.
39:11But at least if you know, it's coming and like, it may be a bad analogy, but if you know,
39:17it's coming, if you know, you're sticking with your, your core and you know, it's going to be bad for
39:22a while.
39:23I mean, I actually literally went through that myself quite some time ago and it was painful, but I was
39:29able to, to, to pull out and, and deal with it a lot better.
39:32I think then if I just suddenly fell into the hole and got really hurt.
39:36Imagine you're, you're, you're at a company and you know, and everyone's making a ton of money and you know,
39:42something fraudulent is going on.
39:44Right?
39:44So you either decide to become a whistleblower or pull the plug and man, you lose your job and that
39:50has confidence, but you, you roll the tape five years forward.
39:53And people, you know, hear that you were the person that actually called out Acme Corp and the whistleblower and
39:59you have integrity and that's probably going to help you get your next job.
40:03Versus you were the last one out and you had to explain that not only you were a leader there,
40:08but you didn't really know about the fraud and you didn't really like, you're going to be tainted and no
40:13one's going to hire anyone, you know, from that company.
40:16So that, that, that's a very simplistic answer, like, like example, but I, I think there's variations of that, that
40:23happen a lot.
40:24And, and, and, and, and where someone made a conscious decision to sort of look the other way versus kind
40:30of lean in and, and, and deal with it.
40:32And look, it doesn't work out great for whistleblowers, but I feel like someone somewhere, you know, can, can look,
40:40here's a, here's a, here's a good recent example.
40:43There's a, you know, a young lawyer who, who, who, who, who, uh, um, after the Trump administration sort of
40:50went after law firms, which was blatantly, this is not political statement, but blatantly unconstitutional, like, you know, when they
40:57sort of went after any of the law firms and, and these are the top brightest legal minds in the
41:02country.
41:02And they decided they were going to settle rather than wait for the Supreme court because there was risk to
41:07clients, right?
41:08Well, turns out, I think the firms that did that lost more clients in the end, um, because the client
41:14said, look, we don't want a law firm that like stands up to like abuses of the law.
41:19And there was a woman who wrote a memo and quit her job and probably had her own Jerry Maguire
41:23moment.
41:24And look, she might not work for the next year or two because of how she quit that firm.
41:29But I am guessing there are a whole bunch of people out there who will say you were a 24
41:33year old and you were willing to say that this was ridiculous when partners wouldn't.
41:38And then whatever, like, I want to hire you like you're, you're a person of integrity and I want to
41:43hire you.
41:44Totally.
41:45I love it.
41:45Great, great analogies there.
41:47Thank you for sharing that.
41:48Okay.
41:49We're entrepreneurs.
41:50We're business people.
41:51How can we use values as a filter?
41:55We're, we're making decisions where we're hiring.
41:57We got to make, we're looking at growth or trade-offs or whatever.
42:00How can we use that as a, as our.
42:03Yeah.
42:03I mean, if you have good company values, you're hearing those in decision-making in words, you have a core
42:09value of embrace relationships.
42:11And this is a true story.
42:12And you have a contract that entitles you to money where you didn't really get to earn it that month.
42:18You say, look, we should not charge the client this month.
42:21That is not in service of the relationship.
42:23So in a corporate setting, you know, you have real core values.
42:27If those words are being used when it comes to decision, because what you're saying is these are the behaviors
42:33that we reward.
42:34So the answer is, how is it used in decision-making?
42:36It is the decision-making.
42:38If you're actually, you know, reinforcing the right values.
42:43Sometimes the values that are on the, look, Enron had core values of integrity, respect, and honesty, or whatever, when
42:49it was committing a big fraud.
42:51That is not how you got promoted at Enron.
42:53It was probably move fast, break things, and don't ask for permission, right?
42:58Those were the behaviors that Enron was valuing at the time.
43:03Those were the actual values, not the stated values.
43:07Wonderful.
43:07Once again, this is Robert Glazer.
43:09We talked about values that scale, why great leaders don't drift.
43:15You can find him at robertglazer.com.
43:18Get his book, guys.
43:19I love it.
43:20Thank you for sharing this with us.
43:21It's a big topic, a big subject.
43:23And it really, I think it's bringing on an awareness.
43:27It's opened up my eyes even some more on some of these factors.
43:30I'm going to go listen to this again, go through this.
43:33Very good advice.
43:34I just want to thank you so much, Robert.
43:36Thanks.
43:36And if you do a draft, if you do that work and do a draft of your core values under
43:40my definition, send it to me.
43:42I'd love to look at them and I'll give you my comments.
43:45Oh, that's very good.
43:46Wonderful.
43:46Thank you so much.
43:48Well, there you go.
43:49There you go, guys.
43:50That was absolutely great.
43:51I really am glad that Robert came on to share this with us.
43:55And if you like this, share this.
43:57Tell your friends about Robert and values and what we've talked about and some of the stories and the filters
44:03and the analogies.
44:05And I am certain that this is more of an issue and prevalent than probably meets the eye that probably
44:13is in the press.
44:13So you probably have some stuff going on right now.
44:17Get Robert's book.
44:18Check it out.
44:19And and let's help you with your scenarios.
44:22And, you know, wherever you're getting this, please follow the show.
44:25It helps to bring in more amazing guests for you.
44:29All right.
44:29Let's use this and let's help you move on your journey to success.
44:33Thanks.
44:33Remember, just take action.
44:36Success awaits those who persevere and remain steadfast despite the odds.
44:41Sow good seeds.
44:42Do good deeds.
44:44And I'll see you on the next episode.
44:46do good deeds.
44:46in the world. To
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