- 3 days ago
Most entrepreneurs spend years mastering the outer game — growth, systems, pressure, and results — yet still feel stretched, restless, or stuck. In this conversation, Gino Wickman explores why lasting clarity and impact come from strengthening the inner foundation that drives every decision. This episode looks at how disciplined inner work can sharpen focus, protect energy, and help leaders operate with both drive and peace.
What You’ll Learn
• Why mastering the inner game matters as much as building the business
• The difference between operating from pressure versus clarity
• How inner disciplines compound to improve leadership and decision-making
• Why self-awareness is a critical advantage for entrepreneurs
• How driven leaders can pursue success without burning out
About Gino Wickman
Gino Wickman is an entrepreneur, speaker, and author who has spent decades helping leaders build stronger companies and operate with greater clarity. He is the creator of the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS) and the author of multiple bestselling books, including Traction and Shine. His work focuses on helping driven people maximize their impact while developing inner peace and long-term sustainability.
Sponsors & Partners
Odoo
Odoo is an all-in-one business management platform that replaces dozens of disconnected tools with a single, fully integrated system. From accounting and CRM to inventory, marketing, HR, and more, Odoo helps businesses simplify operations, reduce friction, and operate with clarity.
• For sponsorship opportunities, email ad-sales@libsyn.com.
Resources & Links Mentioned
• Connect with Gino Wickman: ginowickman.com
• 🎙️ Podcast Episode Page (audio + video): tonydurso.com/podcast/
• 🎵 Tony’s Music: tonydurso.com/music
• 📧 Join the Newsletter: tonydurso.com/news
Tony’s Closing Words
Use this and let’s help you Move on YOUR Journey to Success!
Just Take Action. – Success awaits those who persevere and remain steadfast despite the odds.
Sow good seeds, do good deeds and join me on the next episode.
entrepreneurial inner power, master the inner game, inner leadership for entrepreneurs, Gino Wickman interview, EOS leadership principles, driven entrepreneur mindset, leadership clarity and focus, avoid founder burnout, inner peace and performance, business leadership habits, self-awareness for leaders, operating from clarity not pressure, entrepreneur decision making, leadership discipline framework, sustainable business success, inner vs outer success, founder mental resilience, leadership energy management, habits of high-performing entrepreneurs
What You’ll Learn
• Why mastering the inner game matters as much as building the business
• The difference between operating from pressure versus clarity
• How inner disciplines compound to improve leadership and decision-making
• Why self-awareness is a critical advantage for entrepreneurs
• How driven leaders can pursue success without burning out
About Gino Wickman
Gino Wickman is an entrepreneur, speaker, and author who has spent decades helping leaders build stronger companies and operate with greater clarity. He is the creator of the Entrepreneurial Operating System (EOS) and the author of multiple bestselling books, including Traction and Shine. His work focuses on helping driven people maximize their impact while developing inner peace and long-term sustainability.
Sponsors & Partners
Odoo
Odoo is an all-in-one business management platform that replaces dozens of disconnected tools with a single, fully integrated system. From accounting and CRM to inventory, marketing, HR, and more, Odoo helps businesses simplify operations, reduce friction, and operate with clarity.
• For sponsorship opportunities, email ad-sales@libsyn.com.
Resources & Links Mentioned
• Connect with Gino Wickman: ginowickman.com
• 🎙️ Podcast Episode Page (audio + video): tonydurso.com/podcast/
• 🎵 Tony’s Music: tonydurso.com/music
• 📧 Join the Newsletter: tonydurso.com/news
Tony’s Closing Words
Use this and let’s help you Move on YOUR Journey to Success!
Just Take Action. – Success awaits those who persevere and remain steadfast despite the odds.
Sow good seeds, do good deeds and join me on the next episode.
entrepreneurial inner power, master the inner game, inner leadership for entrepreneurs, Gino Wickman interview, EOS leadership principles, driven entrepreneur mindset, leadership clarity and focus, avoid founder burnout, inner peace and performance, business leadership habits, self-awareness for leaders, operating from clarity not pressure, entrepreneur decision making, leadership discipline framework, sustainable business success, inner vs outer success, founder mental resilience, leadership energy management, habits of high-performing entrepreneurs
Category
🛠️
LifestyleTranscript
00:00You know, most leaders, they spend years mastering the outer game, you know, the strategy, growth, decisions, pressure.
00:08But very few ever stop long enough to understand the inner game that drives all of it.
00:14And that's where, as you know, your biggest breakthroughs usually come from.
00:19It takes six essential traits to succeed as an entrepreneur.
00:23Visionary, passionate, problem solver, driven, responsible, risk taker.
00:30So, welcome back to the podcast.
00:41Now, if you're a driven entrepreneur, which I know you are, this episode is really going to hit home, guys.
00:46You know, most leaders, they spend years mastering the outer game, you know, the strategy, growth, decisions, pressure.
00:54But very few ever stop long enough to understand the inner game that drives all of it.
01:00And that's where, as you know, your biggest breakthroughs usually come from.
01:05My guest today, Gino Wickman, he's spent decades helping entrepreneurs transform not just their companies, but the way they operate as people, as human beings.
01:16He built the EOS system, which is used by hundreds of thousands of leaders around the world today.
01:22And now he's turned his attention to something deeper, the habits and disciplines that create clarity, calm, and long-term impact.
01:32Gino believes we're all balls of energy, and he's right.
01:36But some burn out, some get brighter, and some never tap their full potential.
01:44Guys, the difference isn't tactics.
01:46It's that inner foundation that we build every day.
01:50Today, Gino's going to walk us through the core of his newest work, the 10 Disciplines.
01:54Simple, powerful practices that help people think clearer, lead better, and live with more intention.
02:01If you want more space, more focus, and a stronger way to show up as a leader, stay with us.
02:07This conversation is going to change how you operate.
02:09Let's dive in.
02:10Hi, Gino.
02:11Welcome to the Tony D'Erso Show.
02:13Thank you, Tony.
02:14Thrilled to be here, my brother.
02:16It's good to have you on.
02:17This is the second time you've been on.
02:18You came on a few years ago, which was that conversation that just never wanted to end.
02:23We had so, so much to talk about in such a short amount of time, and I have a feeling
02:30we're going to do that again, because this time we're going to talk about the entrepreneurial
02:34inner power that I mentioned.
02:36We're going to help people learn how to master, is that a good way to say it, to master that
02:41inner gain that fuels that success out here?
02:46Great word.
02:47So let's start here.
02:48Let's kind of start with how did it all begin for you, Gino?
02:51Tell us about your early entrepreneurial years.
02:54How did it all start for you?
02:57Yeah, well, I'll go way back and keep it fast, because it started back at 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
03:03years old with all kinds of scrappy things, paper routes, shoveling snow, selling candies,
03:08selling fireworks.
03:09Actually, that was a little older in middle school.
03:11Totally inappropriate.
03:13But I was an entrepreneur in the making, is the point.
03:15That led me to a very unconventional set of steps, leading me to helping hundreds of thousands
03:22of entrepreneurs, where you'd think I was a Harvard MBA, and I went to a big consulting
03:27firm, and then I set it on my own.
03:29Well, it's not that at all.
03:30I barely graduated high school with a solid 2.3 GPA.
03:34I went to work at a machine shop.
03:35I just wanted to go to work.
03:37I either was going to go in the military to a machine shop and get my ass kicked for a couple
03:41of years just to straighten me out, because I was a wild child, and then set off to pursue
03:47my entrepreneurial endeavors, found myself in the real estate industry, found myself
03:52investing, and ultimately ended up taking over the family business.
03:55I found myself in the family business, real estate sales training company.
04:00My dad's an incredible entrepreneur, a great speaker, Hall of Fame speaker, built an amazing
04:07sales training company that unfortunately, when I took it over, it was in dire need of a turnaround,
04:11but I felt I could save it, and so I turned the business around in three years, ran it
04:15for seven years.
04:16We successfully sold it, and then I just found my calling, which is helping entrepreneurs.
04:20I simply helped my entrepreneur father turn his company around and grow it and get it very
04:26healthy and very profitable, and I had a light bulb moment, and that's why I am here, and
04:32so then I set out after that to help entrepreneurs, and I've been doing that ever since 32 years old,
04:38so for the last, what's it been now, 26 years, that led me to creating EOS, and then ultimately
04:45eight more books, selling three million copies, all focused on helping entrepreneurs, and so
04:50that's the vast story.
04:53Wow, what a rocket ride, and I'm going to add a couple things in there.
04:57Yeah.
04:57You're known for Entrepreneurial Leap, Rocket Fuel, EOS, EOS Life, and now what we're going
05:06to talk about is the 10 disciplines, and I'm curious, before we go into them, Gino, is there
05:12a thread that connects them all?
05:14What is that line that goes through all of these businesses and enterprises that you put
05:21together?
05:21Yeah, it's a great question, and so I call it the five pieces of content.
05:25So I'll explain what you just shared there in a little bit different fashion, and so
05:30if you think about those five pieces of content that you just mentioned, the first is Entrepreneurial
05:34Leap, as you said, and that's a book I wrote to help any entrepreneur in the making or early
05:40stage entrepreneur really confirm whether or not this game is for them, show them a glimpse
05:46of the life, and give them a path for how to achieve their dreams as an entrepreneur.
05:50Second piece of content is called Rocket Fuel for when that visionary entrepreneur, I like
05:55to call them visionaries, when it's time for them to grow to the next level and find their
05:59integrator counterpart.
06:01Every great visionary needs to be matched with a great integrator to run the day-to-day
06:05of the business, and that book is all about how to do that.
06:08The third piece of content is EOS in the book Traction, and that's for when that entrepreneur
06:12and their leadership team really want to build a great organization.
06:17Fourth piece of content is the EOS Life, and that's for when those leaders want to live
06:22their ideal life, doing what they love with people they love, making a huge impact, making
06:27lots of money, and having time for other passions.
06:30And then the fifth piece of content is where we're going to spend most of our time today,
06:33and that's called Shine, a book I wrote called Shine, and that's 10 disciplines and three discoveries
06:40to help you maximize your energy, your impact, and your inner peace.
06:45And so the through line in all of that, if you look at what I just laid out, that's the entrepreneurial
06:49climb, and so it's like literally climbing a mountain from the inception of scratching
06:54your head as an entrepreneur, should you do this, all the way to get to the top of the
06:59mountain and ringing the bell, whatever that is, selling the business, achieving that thing
07:04you wanted.
07:04Well, what I've learned now, and I experienced it myself firsthand, is when you get to the
07:09top of the mountain, it's not all it's cracked up to be in terms of feeling fulfilled in that
07:15sense of satisfaction.
07:16We get there, and we feel empty.
07:18It didn't fill the hole we thought it was going to fill, and so that's what that content
07:23is about, but the point is, that's the mountain, that's the climb, and that through line is
07:28helping that entrepreneur at every level master being a great entrepreneur, and then ultimately
07:35mastering their inner world as a driven entrepreneur, but also all those driven leaders.
07:41And so my dream, while Shine is the fifth piece of content at the top of the mountain, I'm
07:46trying to move it to the first piece of content before the entrepreneur climbs the mountain
07:49so that they can find that inner peace early, because we tend to accomplish all that on a
07:55foundation of angst and pain and trauma.
07:59And so there's hopefully the answer to your question, but I really wanted to create that
08:04context because then we can point to the content as we have our conversation.
08:07I love that.
08:09You answered my next question, but I'm going to ask it anyways, because it's a good question,
08:14Gino.
08:15Yeah.
08:16I'm just being silly.
08:19It's an important question because the question is, with all of these enterprises and products
08:24and books, here I am.
08:26I'm a somewhat new entrepreneur.
08:29Okay, I've been in business for a few years.
08:30I'm listening to Gino and Tony, and I'm thinking, do I need to take these classes?
08:36Do I need to read all these books?
08:38Does this latest book have what I want?
08:40And you've kind of answered at the very end saying, the Shine book helps bring, it bridges,
08:46that's probably a good word.
08:48It bridges people into what they need to operate at a higher level.
08:52So if they start at Shine, that's good.
08:57That's where we want people to start today if they haven't been introduced to any of your
09:01other works.
09:01Yeah, and it's the million dollar question that I hope to answer in the next 20 years.
09:08Okay, and that is, you know, we driven people because Shine is written for all driven people.
09:13It's just my specialty as entrepreneurs.
09:16I get them.
09:17I am one.
09:17I speak the language, but it's any driven person.
09:20And so with a driven person, you know, it's a question of, is our drive driven by our trauma?
09:27You know, that stuff inside.
09:29And if we heal that and we find inner peace, is it going to zap us of the drive?
09:34Well, I've learned now in experience, it's not true at all.
09:36Your drive actually increases.
09:38So if we get to the front of the process and help people with this content with Shine before
09:45their journey, is it going to zap them of their drive?
09:48Well, it's not true, but that's the fear.
09:50So the good news is whichever approach you take, if it scares you to look inside, that's
09:56okay.
09:56Start the climb.
09:57And at some point you're going to get pinged.
09:59So that's why I just like to point that out with Shine.
10:01Shine's going to show up somewhere on your journey.
10:04And worst case scenario, if you go slay all the dragons for the next 20 years and build
10:08an empire and sell your business for $50 million and then decide to look inside, amen and hallelujah.
10:15That's kind of what I did at age 50.
10:16That isn't such a bad story at the end of the day.
10:20I'm just trying to help you start as early as possible by pinging your soul as early as
10:24I can.
10:25Okay.
10:25So that makes perfect sense.
10:27So what we're talking about now is a great place to start if you haven't started anywhere.
10:33This is the important stuff.
10:35This will help bridge that gap and take you to where you want to be to that higher level
10:40of success, to the pinnacle of your industry, which is absolutely perfect.
10:45And for everyone, this is Gino Wickman.
10:47We're talking about that entrepreneurial inner power.
10:51Another way to say it is master the inner game that fuels outer success.
10:55And you can find him and learn about his book at thetendisciplines.com.
11:00And 10 is one zero.
11:02So spell it numerically.
11:04So thetendisciplines.com.
11:08So check that out and learn more about that.
11:10But we're going to go through this a little bit.
11:13And I know that I just asked that question just before.
11:18And I'm thinking, okay, entrepreneurs, do they have challenges?
11:24I guess, how do I say it?
11:27Because we're talking about bridging.
11:29And at every level, and this is probably a difficult question to ask, because at every
11:33level of somebody's business, they need something different.
11:37To get to your first 100,000 is something totally different than to get to your first seven
11:41digits.
11:42To get to your eight digits, it's a whole different thing.
11:45So there's different challenges.
11:48And I'm wondering for our audience, which is diverse.
11:50We also have corporate-level execs listening as well.
11:54And I want to kind of encapsulate this and not just maybe summarize it.
12:02I guess on, I think of the ratchet, maybe that's a good way, where sometimes you're out
12:08of sync and then eventually you get into the right sync on it.
12:11And I think that that's where we're going to find ourselves when we go through this process
12:15with you.
12:16Well, I'm trying to understand the question.
12:19I think I understand it.
12:21When you talk about these entrepreneurs at different levels, that's the beauty of the
12:26five pieces of content in The Climb.
12:28Because no matter where you are on The Climb, the content is going to meet you where you
12:32are.
12:33And so if you're sitting there and you're 26 years old and you think you're an entrepreneur
12:37and you're scratching your head, please go read Entrepreneur Elite.
12:40It's going to tell you if you are.
12:41Or if you just started a business and you're getting your ass kicked as we all do in the startup
12:45phase, read Entrepreneur Elite.
12:47Just as quickly as if you have 35 employees, you've got a great little $3 million company
12:53and it's growing well and you've got a decent little leadership team, read Traction.
12:58And I can keep going.
12:58But the point is the content is going to meet you wherever you are.
13:02And just like I said with Shine, if something in today's conversation, let's pretend you're
13:07that 26-year-old, hasn't started the business yet, but something about this conversation
13:11pings you that you might want to look inside and really work on the inner game, then maybe
13:18that's the place to start.
13:19And then read Entrepreneur Elite and take your leap.
13:21So somewhere on that journey, you're going to get pinged with the desire to look inside.
13:25That's the one that's pretty flexible.
13:27And I'm just trying to move that one to the front of the process.
13:30Like I said, worst case, do that one last.
13:33Totally.
13:34And I haven't read your book.
13:35So what is that?
13:36A disclaimer here?
13:37I haven't read it.
13:38So I'm not a master on it.
13:39You're the master.
13:40But I think back on my entrepreneurial journey, I've done multiple things.
13:45But the last was being a podcaster.
13:48I think it's now like 11 years I've been doing this.
13:50And having that inner strength, I still work on today to improve myself and be more confident,
14:02not arrogant, but more confident at what I'm doing as the right thing.
14:06Otherwise, you wouldn't grow any business if you weren't confident.
14:09If you had no confidence at all, you'd be doing different things all the time.
14:13And for probably a portion of my life, I've tried different things because I didn't have
14:17that confidence that it was the thing for me.
14:20So one of the things I see, and not having read your material, is wherever you are, you
14:28need that inner strength.
14:31You need that power to come up.
14:33Whatever strength it is, whether it's low, medium, or high, you need to grow that because
14:39that's how that strength, while other people see it, it's what's going to carry you through
14:44to a successful business.
14:45Yeah, and I'll share a couple of things because I'm going to answer this contextually and respond
14:52to what you said there just to give a little dimension on what you're saying because confidence
14:57is a really interesting word that you're choosing because in Entrepreneurial Leap, that first
15:02piece of content, what I'm teaching that entrepreneur in the making or that early stage entrepreneur
15:07is that it takes six essential traits to succeed as an entrepreneur, visionary, passionate,
15:13problem solver, driven, responsible, risk taker.
15:17And you and I discussed that in that podcast four years ago.
15:20So go back and look at that.
15:22But the point in that is entrepreneurs, I mean, we're borderline crazy.
15:27And those six essential traits, if you think about them, they add up to this being, this ball
15:32of energy, that's borderline crazy.
15:34And so we take huge risks and not always huge risks, but we take more risks than most.
15:39And sometimes that risk taking is perceived as confidence.
15:44And sometimes it's craziness.
15:46And sometimes it's actually insecurity disguised as confidence because we're trying to fill
15:51a hole.
15:52You know, we're trying to prove our dad wrong or our friend wrong.
15:55Sometimes we're doing it for some reason that is not entirely healthy, but we come to learn
16:01and go to the root of that someday.
16:03So confidence is, you know, maybe courage is a better word than confidence because most
16:11of the entrepreneurs I know are insecure and it is part of what drives them.
16:16And that's part of what we're talking about here in this fifth piece of content shine is
16:21to go to the insecurity, find that source of fuel from the insecurity and shift it to an
16:28even more powerful source that makes you even more driven.
16:33So hopefully that made sense.
16:35It does.
16:35It makes great sense.
16:36And your answer was absolutely amazing.
16:39And one point on that, which is in a comment to what I was just saying is the way I see it
16:49is that there's a level of confidence and that inner strength, but still not arrogance.
16:56And I'm going to explain that really fast where you're, you're willing to, and to allow,
17:01come on guys, the world changes tomorrow, something different is going to happen.
17:05And if you know about it, and if you jump in, you could be a millionaire by Saturday.
17:08I mean, it's just that fast.
17:11I have had the distinction, if you want to use that word, those words are not Gino.
17:18I've been in corporate, what I call the corporate world, working for others for 30 years, and
17:22I've been an entrepreneur for 30 years.
17:24And I've been through the people who've started their company and built it.
17:29They're not just confident.
17:31They're so, they were so arrogant that they wouldn't accept anything new and their company
17:38disappeared or who knows what happened to it because there's that level.
17:42So I think there's a balance, you know, of, and, and, and I want to bring that up because
17:48the topic, the, the point on this is that some things can be misunderstood by entrepreneurs.
17:53And I don't, and I wanted to make that a very good point.
17:56You can't be too confident where you're not willing to listen to, to changes, but you got
18:01to be confident enough to take your point, to, to take your business through.
18:05And I know that it's somewhere in your material, you talk about, there's a point where entrepreneurs
18:10just misunderstand and they don't truly get, get it where they're at.
18:14And I'm wondering, is that kind of that point or, or maybe that's a separate point, but I,
18:20but, but when I read about through your material, that's what I thought of.
18:24Yeah.
18:24And I, the only point I would say to that, um, because I think I, you know, answered most
18:30of that.
18:31The next piece I would just say is the ability to be agile.
18:35So the thing you have to understand as an entrepreneur and most do, or at least they're
18:40forced to, and that is the need to be flexible, Bob weave and change your product or service
18:48overnight because the game changed on you.
18:50And so I described that as the understanding.
18:52And I, and I talk about it in great detail in entrepreneurial leap is how you've got to
18:57have plan B, C and D in place or be ready to change.
19:02You know, the popular term is pivot.
19:04I'm not a big fan of that word, but it is what it is.
19:06It's just called a course correction.
19:09And so I would describe that as the flexibility and the risk taking and, and the, and the creativity
19:14involved.
19:15And when the game changes on you, you know, when the competition catches up, when the industry
19:20changes, you've got to be able to turn on a dime.
19:23And if you don't have those essential traits, just not going to survive that.
19:27And so certainly the word confidence can fit into that.
19:31And yes, arrogance is the kiss of death.
19:35We're going to talk about the 10 disciplines.
19:36Discipline number 10 is be humble.
19:39The antithesis of arrogance.
19:41So you're singing my song, brother.
19:43Oh, I love it.
19:43All right.
19:44We've, I think, possibly been teasing the audience up to this point, because we've been
19:48talking about that inner world, that strength, that not being arrogant.
19:52We've been talking inner, inner, inner.
19:54So let's just kind of lay it out there, Gino.
19:57There's this outer world.
19:59There's this inner world.
20:00Can we kind of separate the difference?
20:02Because I'm not even going to answer the rest of my question.
20:07You're nodding.
20:08You know where I'm going.
20:09Yeah, I think we all get it.
20:10So, so outer world, inner world.
20:12Let's start with the outer world, because that's the easiest one to understand.
20:16So outer world is everything outside of you that you've created.
20:21It's the package that you've created in life.
20:23And so, so outer world success, the business you built, the house that you have, the family
20:29that you have, the money you have, the way you live your life, you've been taking vacations.
20:34So it's, it's just that whole outer world package that you've created.
20:38And most of us successful entrepreneurs have a pretty damn good looking outer world.
20:44Okay.
20:45And so, so that was me at age 50.
20:48I had sold the business in, in two years later, 52 years old.
20:53I'm sitting there celebrating my success and my outer world, which I didn't call it that
20:59at the time.
21:00And this is what led to me writing Shine.
21:02What happened was, as I was sitting there celebrating my success and, and, and kind of
21:09celebrating, making it to the top of the mountain, something hit me.
21:14Something came over me.
21:15I call it the universal two by four hit me over the head and, and I can only describe
21:20it as an awakening and just something welled up inside of me and said, it's time to now
21:25look inside at the inner world.
21:28And when I looked at the inner world, all I felt was pain and that journey, it's now been
21:35six years, that journey, um, forced me to look back at the root of all of the pain.
21:43And it started at age six and it lasted all the way to age 15, trauma, abuse, bullying.
21:55We don't have to go into all the detail, but I'm happy to get, I get very specific in the
21:59book, but what I realized is how my ego created a beautiful package, this suit of armor to protect
22:07me from ever feeling pain again.
22:09And I built this tough guy persona, hardworking, ass kicking.
22:15And so at age 15 to 50, 35 years, it served me very well in creating an amazing outer world,
22:22but never did I go inside and address what was going on in the inner world.
22:26And so then I went on a journey for the last six years to go into the inner world and heal
22:30all of that, confront all of that, let all of that come up.
22:35And we're going to get into more detail on that when we get into the three discoveries,
22:39that part of shine, but the inner world is what's really going on on the inside of you.
22:44So there you are out there, the listener, you've got this beautiful outer world.
22:48Hopefully some people's outer worlds are really messed up.
22:51And so you got to work on the outer world there, but the inner world is how are things
22:55feeling on the inside?
22:57Are the tectonic plates shifting?
22:59How's your nervous system?
23:01Are you full of angst?
23:03Is there anger in there?
23:05Is there pain?
23:06Is there trauma?
23:07And most of us driven people, it's all built on a foundation of angst.
23:13And so I went in there and I did some serious excavating and now I feel peace.
23:20Most of the time, it's not perfect.
23:22I'm on a journey here, but I feel peace most of the time and it is night and day.
23:26And at the end of that whole journey, I now realize same gifts, same guy, same talents,
23:33but now built on a foundation of peace, not a foundation of angst.
23:37And it is a whole different world.
23:40And it literally increases your drive.
23:43That's absolutely amazing.
23:45And now part of that, I think it is a good time to talk about balls of energy.
23:51Let's go talk about it.
23:53Sometimes they burn bright or burn out or never even turn on.
23:57Yeah.
23:58So this is a very strong belief I have.
24:00It's also scientifically proven, but we are all balls of energy.
24:04We are scientifically energy.
24:07We are particles turned into atoms.
24:09Atoms turn into molecules.
24:11Molecules turn into cells and cells turn into human beings.
24:14So that's all energy.
24:15Particles are energy.
24:16So we are energy beings.
24:20In other words, as hard as that is to believe, because you can touch and feel and see us,
24:24we are balls of energy.
24:25And some of us burn very bright and some of us don't burn very bright.
24:30And so I've been saying it for 20 years.
24:31You're all balls of energy to me.
24:33We are truly these balls of energy.
24:35And the ones that do burn bright are living from the inside out.
24:41And the ones that don't burn so bright are living from the outside in.
24:46And so inside out means you're operating from your true self.
24:50You could call that soul, spirit, heart, whatever word works for you.
24:56Outside in is where the ego is in charge in running the show.
25:00And again, that's that package that I created way back when.
25:02That's the suit of armor.
25:03The ego is so masterful at creating a suit of armor.
25:07And it's just trying to protect you.
25:09And so with that said, that internal inside out, let's call that true self.
25:15Again, you choose your word.
25:16That is a ball of energy that burns so bright.
25:20Every single one of us, 8.5 billion, our true self burns bright.
25:25Inside.
25:26But unfortunately, if it's wrapped in a cocoon, 10 feet thick that your ego created to protect you, you're just not burning as bright as you can because your energy is just blocked.
25:38It's blocked from shining.
25:40And this work, this content, this book Shine is all about piercing that shield.
25:45I call it letting a little light in or a little light out.
25:48And so that is my interpretation of how we are balls of energy and some burn bright and some don't burn so bright.
25:56I love that.
25:57Now I understand a little bit more of what the book Shine is all about.
26:00And yes, we are very powerful spiritual beings.
26:03We're powerful if we know we're powerful.
26:06Otherwise, we don't necessarily know.
26:09So I really like that concept.
26:10I think it's absolutely amazing.
26:12Let the light out.
26:13I guess if you're Italian, it's let the light out for sure versus let the open up to let more light in.
26:20I'm trying to make a silly about it.
26:23Maybe it worked.
26:24Maybe it didn't.
26:25But anyway, I really like that.
26:28We're balls of we're very powerful.
26:31Yeah, we are all meant to shine.
26:34We're light.
26:35Yes, we are all meant to shine.
26:37And it's a matter of shedding all the shit so that we can shine.
26:42Now, as part of that, maybe, maybe not, because another concept in your book and you're going to bring up, we're going to go over a couple of them.
26:49But one of the things is, and I think entrepreneurs, business people, everyone has learned this.
26:55You can get more done with the team than yourself because, you know, in other words,
27:00so two or three or four or five of you are far stronger and get far more done than just one.
27:07And your disciplines, I believe, the way you describe and discuss them is by doing more, you're exponentially more powerful.
27:17Can you kind of break that down a little bit for us?
27:19Yeah, well, let me I'll zoom way out and give context on this.
27:23OK, and so the 10 disciplines, they're the 10 disciplines for maximizing your energy, your impact and your inner peace.
27:30And each one stands on its own.
27:32But if you implement them all in your life, they have a magnifying effect that I believe it's like a hundred X return.
27:41So, again, it's a smorgasbord. So you can just use one.
27:44And it's absolutely true that you will get value from one.
27:48I just urge everyone to implement them all because of the magnifying effect.
27:53And so I'll just quickly roll through all 10 so your audience knows what they are.
27:58So we're not teasing them out in any way. And it'll just take me 30 seconds.
28:01But discipline number one is 10 year thinking.
28:04Number two is take time off.
28:07Number three, know thyself.
28:09Number four, be still.
28:11Number five, know your hundred percent.
28:14That's your work capacity.
28:16Number six, say no dot dot dot often.
28:19Number seven, don't do twenty five dollar an hour work if you want to make six figures.
28:25Number eight, prepare every night.
28:27Number nine, put everything in one place.
28:29And number 10, be humble.
28:32I'm thinking with those.
28:34And you want to know what comes through my mind is.
28:36Please.
28:37As with anything, you can't do all at once.
28:40You got to focus on something.
28:42So what's going to give me the most bang for the buck, the most powerful?
28:45What can I make the biggest difference with by focusing on?
28:48Yeah, I love the question.
28:50And it's not the first time it's been asked.
28:51And it's like it's so hard to answer because it's Sophie's choice, because the one that seems so simple, put everything in one place.
28:59And the one that seems so audacious, know thyself, are both just as powerful.
29:07But if I have to pick one, it's always know thyself.
29:10Because this is kind of everything we're talking about in this conversation.
29:14To the degree you know yourself, really know yourself, everything in life is better.
29:22And so I always tell a story of my wife threw me a 30th surprise birthday party.
29:26And I walk into my in-law's house, and there are a hundred sets of eyeballs that yell surprise.
29:33And I look around that room, and there are six factions of my life in the same room.
29:38They were my business partners, my employees, my family, my wife's family, my high school friends, and my new friends.
29:47Six different factions.
29:49And I was a different person with every single faction.
29:51And I looked around the room, and I said, who in the hell am I going to be today?
29:55Well, that was my aha moment that for the rest of my life, I'm just going to be me, because I don't want to be a chameleon anymore.
30:01So the point here is, to the degree you really know who you are, it starts with understanding your skills and abilities, then strengths and weaknesses, then kind of your persona,
30:11and then really getting into the stuff around your ego and who your true self really is.
30:17And so we're all somewhere on this journey, and it could be as simple as a profiling tool to understand your personality better,
30:25all the way to a year of therapy every week to really go inside and clear and excavate all that stuff that's blocking you from being your true self.
30:35So depending on where you are on your journey in life, you just keep chipping away that marble and exposing the beautiful masterpiece statue that is you.
30:44So if I have to pick one, it's got to be know thyself, because every time you chip away a piece of marble, life gets a little better, you get a little clearer, you make better decisions,
30:54you set better boundaries, and you're just a better person.
30:58So that would be the one that I would pick.
31:00And I've got a question after this, but it's like, can you give us a little bit more on the importance of,
31:06this is one of the 10, and you feel this is a critical point to make sure you have, know thyself.
31:13What is it?
31:15What does that mean to me?
31:16I'm running around.
31:17I'm busy.
31:17I got stuff to do.
31:18I'm listening to Tony and Gino talking, know thyself.
31:22What?
31:22Can you give me a little bit more?
31:25Yeah, for sure.
31:25And what I'm going to do is I'll bring another discipline into this, because this is that magnifying effect.
31:30And so if you'll incorporate 10-year thinking into your life, and when we talk about know thyself,
31:36just right now, set a goal for yourself that 10 years from now, you will fully know thyself.
31:42Okay?
31:42Because at 30 years old, I had no clue who I was.
31:45You know, I knew some external stuff.
31:47But so start by setting a 10-year goal, because if you're sitting there listening to this,
31:51and you think by Wednesday of next week, you're going to know yourself, you are grossly mistaken.
31:56So yes, I'll give you a little bit deeper dive.
31:58But start by just take all the pressure off yourself and just say, 10 years from now,
32:03I'm going to do, I'm going to have accomplished what Gino just said.
32:06So here's a couple of little snippets.
32:09Okay?
32:09And so let's pretend you are at ground zero, step one in knowing myself,
32:17and you are a trauma-laden ego machine.
32:24Okay?
32:24And I'm just going to like go to the worst case scenario.
32:26And the protective layer you built is 100 feet thick, and it's made out of solid steel.
32:33And you've got to bring that whole thing down.
32:35And that's the chipping away at the marble I'm talking about.
32:38Well, right now, it might be as simple as, like I said, just go take a profiling tool so you
32:45understand your personality or your strengths or weakness a little bit better.
32:50And you start to learn about yourself because, like, somebody who's arrogant, let's use that
32:55example that you mentioned earlier, that doesn't know they're arrogant, they are leaving a black
33:01trail behind them.
33:02So they can't figure out why life's so tough, why they're attracting all these people that are
33:08undesirable.
33:08Well, humble people attract humble people, and arrogant people attract arrogant people.
33:14And so to have the aha moment, there's another exercise I urge everyone to do, and go to the
33:2010 closest people in your life, business, personal, friends, everything, and say, what are my three
33:25greatest strengths and my three greatest weaknesses?
33:27Well, if they're going to be honest with you, 7 out of 10 are going to say you're an arrogant
33:31prick.
33:32And so that's the starting point.
33:34You're not going to like some of what you learn, but to start to become, shift the needle
33:39toward becoming more humble, all of a sudden life's going to get a little better.
33:43And that's just, I'm just picking low-hanging fruit.
33:46And so it could be as simple as you understanding that you are a terrible follow-through person.
33:52And here you are, you keep trying to follow through with things in life.
33:55Stop it.
33:56You suck at it.
33:58Hire a follow-through person.
33:59That's the world's greatest follow-through person.
34:01But again, what happened there is, I just learned more about myself because I'm terrible
34:06at following through.
34:07And I beat myself up for the last five years because I'm so disorganized and so terrible
34:12at following through.
34:13Well, most entrepreneurs are terrible at follow-through.
34:16They need somebody that's a great follow-through person.
34:19So that knowing themselves better, all of a sudden you fill that weakness, elevating yourself
34:26to more of your strengths.
34:27And another thing might be you're great at sales.
34:28And you should be spending 90% of your working time selling and that's it.
34:33And delegate everything else to everyone else.
34:36There's another aha.
34:37So you're going to learn strengths.
34:39You're going to learn weaknesses.
34:40And you're going to make these wonderful little course corrections getting you closer and closer
34:44and closer to the real you.
34:46Do one of those things a quarter.
34:48Do one of those things a year.
34:50In the next 10 years.
34:51In 10 years from now, you will not be the same person.
34:54You'll be making more money.
34:56More people will love you.
34:58You probably won't get divorced because right now you're on path to get divorced.
35:02Your kids may like you where you're on a path for your kids not to like you.
35:06You may have more friends because a couple of them are about to bail on your arrogant ass.
35:10So it's look at it as a 10-year horizon and just take baby steps toward fully knowing
35:17thyself so you can fully be yourself.
35:20I love it.
35:22And one of the things as you were saying this was not all businesses need more money or
35:31want more money or are worried about money.
35:33You know, I'll just look at myself.
35:35There's no problem with bringing in sales, but there's other infrastructure and there's
35:39other parts of my world that are very important to put in.
35:44The money is not necessarily an issue, though it can be an issue for a lot.
35:49For a lot of people, we think that everyone, all entrepreneurs and all leaders may listen
35:57to shows like mine because they want to learn how to make more money, but that's not necessarily
36:01what they need.
36:03So we're going to go over your three discoveries in just a moment and some of your points.
36:07And I'm thinking, is money, in quotes here, is that the big thing that we wind up becoming
36:18better at by this?
36:19Or are there other things that you see that change first?
36:22I'm kind of looking at from the point of view, okay, I'm going to do these 10 disciplines.
36:27What do I see changing?
36:29Because there's things that I need, which is not necessarily money related.
36:33I mean, everyone has their own different point, depending on where they are on the scale.
36:37So I'm just kind of looking at, well, what do you see change for people when they work
36:41on this?
36:41I guess that's the simplified question.
36:43Yeah, no, it's so good.
36:44And I have to back up and then go forward to your question because there's this thing.
36:50And whenever this happens, I am called to share it.
36:54Like, I can't not stop myself.
36:56So I'm going to go back to this know thyself question.
36:58Because the other person I want to address, because there's somebody out there that needs
37:02to hear this right here and now, in know thyself, you are going to understand and realize that
37:09you're nice and you're too nice.
37:13And there's such a thing as being too nice because you listened to my rant and you said,
37:17I'm not any of those things.
37:18I'm a really nice person.
37:20Well, that's what's holding you back.
37:21You're a people pleaser.
37:22And you keep saying yes to everything.
37:24And you've twisted yourself in a knot and you're miserable.
37:27Stop being so damn nice.
37:29And so when you learn that about yourself, you're going to get a little tougher.
37:32You're going to start setting more boundaries.
37:34You're going to start saying no.
37:35And all of a sudden, 10-year horizon, you're just going to start getting happier and happier
37:40and happier because you had the courage to say no to that damn thing you keep saying
37:44yes to that makes you miserable.
37:47So anyways, I just needed to say that to the nice person out there because you were taught
37:52to be nice and somehow you believe like that's the secret to life.
37:55It ain't.
37:56It's being your true self.
37:59And some of us are very intense and some of us are very nice.
38:02But nonetheless, the successful ones, we set boundaries.
38:06And I learned this about me.
38:07I never realized what a people pleaser I was in my personal life, not in business.
38:12And so anyway, I needed to talk to you out there that needed to hear that.
38:15So back to your money question.
38:16So now let's talk about money.
38:17I'm going to give you the fast answer and then the slow answer.
38:21The fast answer is you are absolutely going to make more money.
38:27So applying everything I'm saying, you're going to make more money.
38:30I'm a capitalist.
38:31You need to make as much money as you want to make.
38:35And these tools are going to help you do that.
38:37But it's not about money.
38:39Money is just the byproduct.
38:41Money has never driven me.
38:43Money is not why I do what I do.
38:44I will take the money.
38:46I appreciate the financial independence.
38:49But money is a byproduct from being your true self.
38:54And so the money will follow.
38:56One of the disciplines is don't do $25 an hour work.
38:59This is all about money.
39:01Because you hear this happy horse shit about, oh, money's not important.
39:06Oh, money's evil.
39:08No, that's just somebody who's envious and jealous because other people are making more than them.
39:12So the power of that discipline is if you're sitting there complaining because you're making $50,000 a year, $25 an hour, you can change all of that.
39:21And it's simply because you're doing $25 an hour work.
39:25Start doing $50 an hour work, $75, $100 an hour work, $1,000 an hour work.
39:30The whole game will change.
39:31And when you create awareness around the kind of work you're doing, you will then start delegating off those low-dollar tasks.
39:39And then there are people out there that love making $25 an hour.
39:42They love it.
39:43And we need them.
39:44And thank God, that's what makes the economy go around.
39:46They want to do all your $25 an hour work for you.
39:49It's what makes this whole thing work.
39:51It's beautiful.
39:52So the money follows is my short answer.
39:55But it comes in as much as you want.
39:59I love it.
40:00Yes, as you put in a system and it works and it does and it helps others, whether it's a product or physical or a service, the money comes in because people like it, they pay for it.
40:12Yeah, and just the last point on that, you have to provide value.
40:16And right now, if you're making $25 an hour, you're providing $25 an hour in value.
40:20You need to increase the value you're providing the world.
40:23The world rewards us.
40:24It's never going to change.
40:26It's been this way for 10,000 years.
40:27It's going to be this way for 10,000 more.
40:29The world rewards us for the value that we provide.
40:34And what's really difficult is for that poor person that is a caregiver, that works harder than all of us caring for a loved one and they get paid nothing.
40:42Listen, that's where the world isn't fair.
40:44You know, it's like there's no perfect system out there.
40:47But my God, it's just the way the world works.
40:50It rewards us for the value we bring.
40:52And then hopefully for that caregiver that's working for free for 10 years for that loved one killing themselves, hopefully there's a place in heaven that like they're sitting atop all of us.
41:01You know, I believe somehow they're going to get rewarded.
41:04Anyway, now I'm on a rant.
41:07No, that's totally okay.
41:08I think it's a given that when you do good things, whether you get a reward now or later or something happens or you meet somebody later and something else happens and something happens or next year something happens.
41:22Because you stay true to your core belief and that's really, really important.
41:28That's why I said earlier, you know, it's not the focus on money, you know, that's important.
41:34It's the focus on providing.
41:35Well, I didn't say it, but you did.
41:38Providing that service, providing that product, providing something that is valuable that people like.
41:44And therein comes the money.
41:46And that's just kind of how it works.
41:48And those caregivers and people, their time will come.
41:54Something always good, well, I see often good things happen to people.
41:59Just sometimes it's sooner or later rather than sooner.
42:02But I get it.
42:03For us, for entrepreneurs, business people, what we're talking about here, produce something good that people like.
42:09They pay for it.
42:11There comes your money.
42:12Just keep that machine going, improve it, make it better, and you keep growing.
42:16I mean, that's a simplified word.
42:17You got it.
42:18It's right on.
42:19So, thank you.
42:20Now, we have these 10 disciplines, but on top of that, everybody, but wait, there's more and I'm not selling anything.
42:27There's three discoveries on top of that.
42:29Now, we really quickly ran through the 10 points.
42:33We went over a few of them, which I really, really enjoyed.
42:39But now there's three discoveries.
42:41When you do these, there's even more benefits.
42:45Yeah, you bet.
42:46So, the three discoveries for freeing your true self.
42:51So, we've been touching on this.
42:52I mean, we have hit this 10 different ways, and here's where it now all comes together and culminates into this beautiful, hopeful crescendo for all of you out there.
43:02So, the three discoveries.
43:03Let's start with what they are at a high level.
43:05Discovery number one is I am driven.
43:09Discovery number two is that all decisions are made out of love or fear.
43:15Discovery number three is that it is possible to be driven and have peace.
43:21And so, let's take them one at a time, and then we'll do a little bit of a deep dive into number two, but we'll do this pretty quick.
43:25So, discovery number one is just simply you discovering and realizing and accepting that you are driven.
43:35Driven people, it's about 10% of the population, are odd ducks.
43:41In other words, they have this incredible power, blessing and a curse.
43:48They work harder than most.
43:50They create most things on this planet.
43:52They go hard.
43:54The curse is that they leave a black trail behind them.
43:56They do a lot of damage to relationships and to themselves.
44:00And there's a lot of trauma around it.
44:02We get ourselves in trouble, and it starts at a very early age.
44:06And so, this discovery is just discovering I am that and being aware of it.
44:11Because when you become aware of it, you can start to tone it down.
44:15But most importantly, you can now go to discovery number two, which is all decisions are made out of love or fear.
44:22Now, this one goes really deep.
44:25I'm going to still keep it pretty high level and basic, but it's everything we've been talking about.
44:29It's understanding that every thought you have, every feeling you have, every decision you make, all of it is all coming from one of two places, love or fear.
44:41And for most of us, it's coming from fear.
44:44And when it's coming from fear, that means that our ego is online.
44:48So, here we are now, back to that concept.
44:50And when it's coming from love, it's coming from our true self or one of those other words you may love, from your soul, from your spirit, from your heart.
44:58Whatever you want to call it, we call it true self.
45:01And so, with that said, now, if that made sense, every thought, every feeling, every decision is either coming from your ego or from your true self.
45:10And life is just better when it's coming from your true self inside out, as opposed to your ego outside in.
45:17Outside in is where you're weighing it through comparison, competition, and judgment.
45:21Now, once you understand that premise, we go all the way down to healing that.
45:27Because as we discussed, our true self is in there, typically wrapped in that ego cocoon.
45:31We talked about how we're balls of energy.
45:34So, now that you understand everything about us as beings is energy, where the ego is on hold and there's the cocoon, it's just blocked energy.
45:43It's blocked, dark energy that's holding you back.
45:47And the idea is to shed all of those blocks, shed all of that.
45:52And then you take it all the way down to just becoming aware.
45:56And that means awareness.
45:57It means speaking the truth.
45:59It means becoming honest with yourself and everyone in your life.
46:03And so, with that awareness and that honesty, it's understanding when you have a thought, when you have a feeling, when you make a decision, know that it came from fear.
46:13And it's a habit you build.
46:15Ten-year thinking, give it ten years.
46:17You may surprise yourself.
46:18It may happen a lot faster.
46:19But all of a sudden, when that happens and you realize it's fear, go to the root of the fear.
46:24And so, one of the disciplines is be still, as I mentioned.
46:27If everyone would adopt a 30-minute-a-day stillness practice, which sounds like a big time commitment, but it's transformational, start with 10, work up to 30.
46:36The reason most people fear stillness is because in stillness, all the stuff comes up.
46:42And when the stuff starts to come up, and it comes up with as much pain as it went down, when the stuff starts to come up and we get really uncomfortable, we stuff it back down and our ego comes online and protects us.
46:54And so, it's all about going to the root of why we operate that way, why we think that way, why we're trying to protect ourselves from something we don't need to protect.
47:02Physical harm, yes, but that's not what's going on.
47:05It's emotional harm.
47:06We're fearing things that just don't make any sense, but it makes total sense to our ego.
47:11And so, it's just starting to shed that stuff.
47:13So, then all of a sudden, you start shedding it.
47:16All of a sudden, you burn brighter.
47:17All of a sudden, you're starting to make more decisions from love.
47:19Again, all we're doing is slowly moving the needle.
47:22If next week, you're going to make 10 decisions, and last week, all 10 were from fear, and next week, one is from love, and nine are from fear, that's like a Richter scale.
47:33That is a monumental change in your life.
47:36And so, you're just moving toward more love-based thoughts, feelings, and decisions.
47:41Hopefully, that made sense.
47:43It did.
47:43It made so much sense.
47:45I think of, you ready for this?
47:47I am paying attention.
47:48I'm thinking of some of the most beautiful buildings in the world I've ever seen.
47:53Beautiful, beautiful buildings.
47:55People go to them, tourist destinations.
47:57I've seen.
47:58I've traveled a bit of the world.
48:00I've seen beautiful buildings.
48:01But guess what?
48:03Once upon a time, it was just a blank lot.
48:06It was just an empty field.
48:07And I'm thinking of what you're saying, because I understand you've got to grow it.
48:13You've got to build it.
48:14You've got to put it together.
48:16But when you're, and it's easy to say, build a building.
48:20But when you go through that process, and you build something really nice, it stands the test of time.
48:26People come to go see it as a tourist destination, whatever.
48:29It becomes really good.
48:30And these points, as I'm getting them, are things to work on and build.
48:36Not just, you know, it's not like throwing your food in a blender and drinking it.
48:41It's really working with it.
48:44And when you're done, you've got a really nice enterprise.
48:49Yeah.
48:49And so I love that analogy.
48:52And I would just do, I want to shift that or at least add to it.
48:59Because right on, I just want to make sure we're being clear.
49:05It's like you could build this beautiful building or outer world package and look good on the outside.
49:11Which most people do, or a lot of people do.
49:13And they're working so hard on that external package.
49:15This is about going inside the building and realizing, eh, there's a couple of cracks in the foundation.
49:20Now the elevator keeps breaking down.
49:22Oh, wait a second.
49:23This room needs to be renovated.
49:25So it's going inside that building and seeing, you know, what structurally is going on there.
49:30Let's make sure that structure inside the building is strong.
49:33So that beautiful building can last forever.
49:37Beautiful.
49:38Well said.
49:38Once again, this is Gino Wickman talking about entrepreneurial inner power.
49:43And we talked about mastering the inner game that fuels outer success.
49:47You can find him and please do find him at the10disciplines.com.
49:53That's the number 10.
49:56The10disciplines.com.
49:57Gino, I just want to thank you so much.
49:59You gave me some great points.
50:00I'm going to go through this again and really hunker down with it.
50:03I really loved it.
50:04I just want to thank you so much.
50:05This was great.
50:06My pleasure, Tony.
50:08Had a blast.
50:09All right.
50:09Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.
50:11Well, there you go, guys.
50:13So great to have Gino on.
50:15He came on, shared amazing information.
50:18And if you like this, please share this with your friends.
50:22Tell them about Gino.
50:23Tell them about the 10 Disciplines.
50:24Tell them about some of the points he talked about.
50:27Great balls of big, giant, great, beautiful balls of energy.
50:31I love that.
50:32Tell them about what Gino's been through.
50:33It wasn't always, you know, roses.
50:36He's been through quite a bit.
50:38And he came out and he is shining.
50:40Check out his book, Shine.
50:42And find out more Gino at the10disciplines.com.
50:46And wherever you're getting this, please follow the show.
50:49It helps to bring in more amazing guests to you.
50:52And it's totally free for you to subscribe or follow.
50:55All right.
50:56Let's use this and let's help you move on your journey to success.
51:00Thanks.
51:00Remember, just take action.
51:03Success awaits those who persevere and remain steadfast despite the odds.
51:08Sow good seeds.
51:10Do good deeds.
51:11And I'll see you on the next episode.
51:13I'll see you on the next episode.
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