- 2 days ago
Most sales problems aren’t really sales problems.
They’re leadership problems, structural problems, or belief problems inside the organization. When leaders misunderstand those foundations, teams struggle to perform no matter how talented they are. Sales trainer and leadership advisor Jim Effner explains why sustainable revenue growth begins with mindset, systems, and language — and how leaders can build environments where sales performance becomes consistent instead of unpredictable.
What You’ll Learn
• Why belief inside a company directly impacts sales performance
• The hidden structural mistakes that quietly sabotage sales teams
• How leaders unintentionally weaken revenue systems
• Why mindset, systems, and language drive sales success
• What it takes to lead clients and teams one relationship at a time
About Jim Effner
Jim Effner is a sales strategist and leadership advisor who works with organizations to strengthen the mindset, systems, and communication that drive revenue performance. Drawing on decades of experience in leadership development and sales training, Jim helps companies build cultures where sales professionals operate with clarity, confidence, and accountability. His work focuses on aligning leadership behavior, organizational structure, and sales language so teams can consistently deliver value to clients and generate sustainable growth.
Sponsors & Partners
• Monarch is an all-in-one personal finance platform that helps you track spending, manage investments, plan future goals, and see your entire financial picture in one place. Use code DURSO at monarch.com to get 50% off your first year.
• Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide and offers everything you need to build, run, and grow an online store — from design and marketing to payments and checkout. Start your one-dollar-per-month trial at shopify.com/tony.
• For sponsorship opportunities, email ad-sales@libsyn.com.
Resources & Links Mentioned
🔗 Connect with Jim Effner
P2p-academy.com
🎙️ Listen to the Episode (audio/video)
🎵 Explore Tony’s Music
tonydurso.com/music
📧 Get the Newsletter
tonydurso.com/news
Tony’s Closing Words
Use this and let’s help you Move on YOUR Journey to Success!
Just Take Action. – Success awaits those who persevere and remain steadfast despite the odds. Sow good seeds, do good deeds and join me on the next episode.
sales leadership strategy, sales mindset systems language, building high performing sales teams, leadership that drives revenue, sales performance culture, business growth systems, leadership communication sales, revenue generation strategy, entrepreneur sales leadership, client relationship leadership
They’re leadership problems, structural problems, or belief problems inside the organization. When leaders misunderstand those foundations, teams struggle to perform no matter how talented they are. Sales trainer and leadership advisor Jim Effner explains why sustainable revenue growth begins with mindset, systems, and language — and how leaders can build environments where sales performance becomes consistent instead of unpredictable.
What You’ll Learn
• Why belief inside a company directly impacts sales performance
• The hidden structural mistakes that quietly sabotage sales teams
• How leaders unintentionally weaken revenue systems
• Why mindset, systems, and language drive sales success
• What it takes to lead clients and teams one relationship at a time
About Jim Effner
Jim Effner is a sales strategist and leadership advisor who works with organizations to strengthen the mindset, systems, and communication that drive revenue performance. Drawing on decades of experience in leadership development and sales training, Jim helps companies build cultures where sales professionals operate with clarity, confidence, and accountability. His work focuses on aligning leadership behavior, organizational structure, and sales language so teams can consistently deliver value to clients and generate sustainable growth.
Sponsors & Partners
• Monarch is an all-in-one personal finance platform that helps you track spending, manage investments, plan future goals, and see your entire financial picture in one place. Use code DURSO at monarch.com to get 50% off your first year.
• Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide and offers everything you need to build, run, and grow an online store — from design and marketing to payments and checkout. Start your one-dollar-per-month trial at shopify.com/tony.
• For sponsorship opportunities, email ad-sales@libsyn.com.
Resources & Links Mentioned
🔗 Connect with Jim Effner
P2p-academy.com
🎙️ Listen to the Episode (audio/video)
🎵 Explore Tony’s Music
tonydurso.com/music
📧 Get the Newsletter
tonydurso.com/news
Tony’s Closing Words
Use this and let’s help you Move on YOUR Journey to Success!
Just Take Action. – Success awaits those who persevere and remain steadfast despite the odds. Sow good seeds, do good deeds and join me on the next episode.
sales leadership strategy, sales mindset systems language, building high performing sales teams, leadership that drives revenue, sales performance culture, business growth systems, leadership communication sales, revenue generation strategy, entrepreneur sales leadership, client relationship leadership
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00Today, Jim teaches what he calls the three levers of sales success, mindset, systems,
00:06and language.
00:07Our mind's powerful.
00:09Our mind leads.
00:10Our beliefs drive our behaviors, not vice versa.
00:14So what one believes is critically, critically important.
00:29Welcome back to the podcast.
00:31Most entrepreneurs and business leaders don't fail because they lack ambition.
00:36They fail because performance eventually hits the ceiling and basically tactics stop working.
00:42You know, you can hire coaches, you could buy software, you could run more ads, you could
00:47train your team harder, but at some point, growth slows anyway.
00:52Now, that's the moment that most people don't talk about.
00:55It's that invisible ceiling, which is created by belief, identity, and internal language.
01:02My guest today has lived on both sides of that divide.
01:05Jim Effner spent years as a strong producer and then made the leap into elite performance,
01:12not by chasing more tactics, but by rebuilding the internal operating system behind performance.
01:20Today, Jim teaches what he calls the three levers of sales success, mindset, systems, and language.
01:28It's the forces that quietly separate top performers from everyone else.
01:34Now, in a world where AI and automation are changing selling and how to sell faster than
01:40ever, the real question becomes, what part of performance still belongs uniquely to the
01:47human, to the human being?
01:48Well, if you're an entrepreneur, advisor, executive, or anyone responsible for revenue,
01:54this conversation is going to challenge how you think about growth, leadership, and selling
01:59in the years ahead.
02:00Instead, it's really going to change quite a bit here.
02:03So settle in because this isn't about selling harder.
02:06It's about performing at a level where success becomes repeatable.
02:11Let's dive in.
02:11Let's bring them on.
02:13Hi, Jim.
02:14Welcome to the show.
02:16Thanks for having me.
02:18Jim, you know, we're all looking forward to learning out how mindset systems and language
02:23can create this unstoppable sales performance.
02:26We've heard it from different angles, but you've got a very refreshing point of view on
02:30how to do this, and I'm very happy to have you on the show to talk about it.
02:35But just a little bit more for the audience here, if we could get a little bit more info
02:39on you.
02:39What's your backstory, Jim?
02:41How did it all start for you?
02:43Well, it all started for me, as far as a career goes, 36, 37 years ago, and came right
02:51out of undergrad, Valparaiso University in Northwest Indiana.
02:54I was a corporate finance major, and I really had no background in business.
03:00I grew up in a middle-class family.
03:02I was one of five children.
03:04Only me and my older brother went to college.
03:07My mom and dad didn't go.
03:08My other three siblings didn't go.
03:10And so I didn't know what I didn't know.
03:13And I signed up for some practice interviews, or so I thought, with insurance companies just
03:21to get, you know, I didn't want to, I was a corporate finance major.
03:24I didn't want to get any insurance at the time.
03:26But, you know, I fell in love with it.
03:28And income walking I did into a company called Northwestern Mutual in the May or June of 1989.
03:36And I started selling.
03:38I sold at a high level, and I achieved a lot of success at that time.
03:43And in today's dollars, I was making seven figures in my late 20s.
03:47I grew that into being an owner and CEO, managing partner of a firm that started at 33 years old.
03:57I sold that in middle 2015.
04:01And then I started the company that I'm with now, P2P, in January of 16.
04:06So I sold for 12 years.
04:09I ran at an executive level almost 15 years, a large firm with about 400 people in it.
04:16And now I am a author, a speaker, a trainer, a consultant, a coach, all the above to the
04:26entire financial services industry in the work that I do at P2P.
04:32So I kind of have a unique resume that I sold.
04:35I recruited and trained others how to sell.
04:38And then I consult to a wide variety of companies in the industry today.
04:45What a resume.
04:46What a background.
04:47You've accomplished quite a bit in a very short time.
04:51And I'm curious, with your expertise and knowledge in sales as you've gone through your career
04:58and you've been a top producer, there obviously was a moment, that's what we're going to talk
05:03about, when you realized that tactics alone weren't enough.
05:09What did you notice there and take us to when you realized that it's got to change?
05:14It's just not being done the way it should be or the right way.
05:17Well, tactics, hard work, discipline, a compelling vision can take you, as you mentioned, so far.
05:28But it's not necessarily how far it can take you.
05:31It also becomes exhausting.
05:34And so the reality of it is, is that you really don't want to, the best saying I use, I've
05:43heard,
05:43is muscling it, you know, and using the skill sets, the tactics and all that, and working harder.
05:51When you want more, it's like, bend your head against the wall, work a little bit harder,
05:54work a little bit harder.
05:56At some point, the engine's going to blow, right?
05:58And so I think I learned pretty quickly in my career that I needed to stop muscling it.
06:04I needed to stop pressing the pedal to the metal harder.
06:08And I needed to do a better job of stepping back and systematizing my business and letting
06:14the systems run the growth of the business that was in a much more sustainable and predictable
06:21fashion.
06:22And so that's when I think I was able to get out of the Volkswagen Jetta, so to speak, and
06:28get more in the Ferrari.
06:30Because I was in a Volkswagen Jetta.
06:32I was making a lot of money.
06:34I was doing 125, 30 miles an hour, but it was at like 8,000 RPMs.
06:40And it wasn't sustainable.
06:41The engine's going to blow, right?
06:43And when I systematized my business, I was able to get out of that and get into a Ferrari,
06:50not literally, but figuratively, and allow to go even faster at one-fourth of the RPMs,
06:56where it's just humming.
06:57And that was a big aha for me.
07:02It's very interesting.
07:03And from there, you went into and you created your website as P2P, the letter P, the number
07:09two, P2P-academy.com.
07:13So now you teach a lot of what you've learned about mindset systems and basically the right
07:21language.
07:21I mean, I've been in sales for decades.
07:24And I can't claim to be even good at any of these particular points, but you've gone
07:30beyond that and you've created actually a whole academy and a whole training process
07:36on this.
07:38Yeah, I have.
07:39And once again, things happen for a reason and you evolve over time.
07:46And there's no question of what I'm doing right now is in my wheelhouse.
07:53It is what I'm really, God has blessed me with.
07:56This is my space.
07:57I'm not good at a lot of things, but I'm really good at this.
08:00And so, but I wouldn't be able to do this at such a level that I do it now.
08:05Had I not spent 12 years in the street selling, spent 15 years running a firm and all the
08:11things I had to do with that to now own and run P2P, all those fed into what we do
08:18now.
08:19And it started out really by me taking a number two pencil on a yellow pad for about six months
08:26after I sold my firm, which was June of 15.
08:30I didn't start P2P until January of 16.
08:34And in that six months, I identified six core sales cycles that are really critically important
08:42and dominant in the overall financial services industry.
08:46And then I systematized each one of those and said, you know, for example, the very first
08:52one is prospecting.
08:53How do you get a referral?
08:54Well, I built an eight step system to that.
08:57And so, and it did it for the next and the next and the next, and then I trademarked
09:01it and that became the backbone and the foundation of P2P.
09:05And now how I apply that is in a multitude of different fashions and P2P Academy are videos
09:10that demonstrate that.
09:12But the difference I would tell you that is big is I have friends that are really successful
09:20in this industry that make millions of dollars a year, but they, and I say this to them jokingly.
09:27And I say, I would say it if they're here right now, they're unconscious competent.
09:32They're, they're, they're incredibly gifted.
09:34They're incredibly good, but they couldn't teach it.
09:38They don't, they just do it.
09:40You know, it's like Michael Jordan probably wouldn't have been a good coach, you know,
09:46but he could just do what nobody else could do with a basketball on a gym floor at freak
09:52levels, but probably couldn't teach it.
09:56Cause he doesn't really even know how he does it.
09:59It just happens.
10:00It's like magic.
10:01You know, that's like the one 10th of one percenters.
10:03I have friends like that.
10:04And I think what was really unique about me is that I was a conscious competent.
10:09I knew why I had success.
10:10And the benefit of that, the critical benefit of that is then therefore you can teach it
10:15to others.
10:15You can replicate it and teach it to others.
10:20Interesting.
10:20You know, while you're saying this, I'm thinking back, I've been through a bit of sales training.
10:25I've read some of the classic sales books out there and most all my training that I've had
10:32in the past and the books were really about tactics.
10:36And we, we mentioned this a couple of times in this interview, in this interview, just really
10:40briefly about a belief system.
10:43And, and, and basically that's what you say drives performance.
10:47And that kind of goes over my head a little bit.
10:50It's like, what I want to break down, what is a belief system and how that can impact something
10:56just right at the beginning?
10:58Is it because I feel things have to be a certain way?
11:01What can you, can you kind of take us through that?
11:06Yeah.
11:06Well, let's start at a high level and bring it down to ground level at a high level.
11:10Um, I don't only believe, I mean, I believed when I was younger, I know now that our mind
11:16leads and our body follows and what goes on in the six inches in between our ears of our
11:23mindset, our beliefs, our convictions, um, drives our behavior big time, big time.
11:29It's been proven and proven and proven.
11:31You mentioned you read some sales books.
11:32If you go back and read some of the old, really mind books.
11:36So the first one that comes to mind is, um, you know, you have the oldest one would be
11:42Napoleon Hill's think and grow rich.
11:45And then you could go to Earl Nightingale's, the strangest secret.
11:48And then you can go to more modern day, Simon Sinek, understand your why.
11:54And, you know, there's so many books over a span of 120 plus years.
11:59They all say the same thing.
12:00It hasn't changed.
12:02It's our minds powerful.
12:03Our mind leads.
12:05Our beliefs drive our behaviors, not vice versa.
12:08So what one believes is critically, critically important.
12:14And a lot of people, most people that come to my workshops, um, don't really realize the
12:20head trash they got going on.
12:22Uh, I call it self-defeated thinking, but even more, uh, importantly, unconscious self-defeated
12:28thinking that holds them back and you got to get rid of that and you got to be consciously
12:33aware of it.
12:34And then you got to take a big old jar of empowered thinking beliefs, being a big part
12:38of that and pour it in so that you're appropriately situated to have a bright and successful career.
12:45So, yeah, it's everything.
12:46Your mindset is everything.
12:48And so when you talk about that and, and I teach it, um, it's important to get it right.
12:56And without getting it right, you don't have a chance.
13:00And you're right.
13:01I'm sorry, go ahead.
13:02No, no, no.
13:03I'm just, just thinking with this and I'm almost maybe talking out loud.
13:07I'm thinking with this going, it's, it's, it's what's in your head.
13:11We hear this a lot.
13:12We hear it from some of the biggest motivational speakers and salespeople out there in the
13:16world.
13:17And I'm still trying to grasp my mind around it.
13:20Maybe I've been trained the wrong way.
13:22Maybe I've been chasing the wrong thing.
13:23I'm not, I don't consider myself a salesperson anymore, though.
13:27So I've done a lot of sales and I've done, you know, miraculous sales, if you want to say,
13:33or big, big deals in the past.
13:35Um, and, and for me, it's all, it's all been, if I believe in the product or the service,
13:43if I really believe in it, then I can communicate it to people and get them to believe in it.
13:49To me, it was just that simple.
13:51Whatever it was, even, and I've done this, even if it was just an idea on a piece of paper,
13:56I could, I could communicate that to others and get other people to buy into it.
14:02And, and that's because I believe or know that what I'm doing is very positive, is very proper.
14:09It's, it's what people need, or it's good.
14:11It's great for a niche or a niche, however you want to say.
14:14So is that the key part?
14:16Because you also talk about mindset, uh, systems and language as part of the levers of sales
14:23success, but we're talking about belief systems.
14:27So maybe kind of put that all together and explain that part.
14:30Well, when you commented on your beliefs, that's only one segment of it.
14:36You said that I, I believed in the product and that was critical to you.
14:41I had to believe in it so that I knew that what I was selling to somebody was in their
14:46best interest and it was the right thing to do.
14:49That was really important.
14:50Hands down.
14:51No question.
14:52I don't think anybody would argue that or defend against that.
14:55That's true, but it's not the end.
14:58You also have to believe in you and your vision.
15:01And so both are really important.
15:03You can believe in the product, but if you're full of a bunch of insecurities and self doubt,
15:08you're not going to be wildly successful.
15:10So it doesn't stop at just believing in the product.
15:13You have to believe in the product.
15:15You have to believe in you and you have to believe in the fact that you deserve your own
15:20vision, uh, of, of where you're going and why you're going there.
15:24And all of those put together are the formula for success.
15:29And so beliefs.
15:31Yeah.
15:31You mentioned my three dimensions, beliefs, systems, and language, uh, and beliefs is first
15:38because it's the most important, uh, if you'd like me to go into systems and language and
15:44give you a kind of a cliff note version of both of those, and then you can ask me questions.
15:48I'd be happy to do that.
15:49Or do you still want to stay on beliefs?
15:51No, I would love the cliff notes on the systems and language because I want to ask some other
15:57questions, but I want to get an understanding of those three pillars first.
16:02Yeah.
16:02So there's a lot of challenges in sales, salesmen and saleswomen.
16:08And, um, one of them probably at the top is that most sales people wing it.
16:16Uh, in other words, they say, do and behave based on how they feel or what they're thinking
16:24at the moment.
16:26And because we're all human, you know, we don't have our a plus plus game 24, seven, three 65.
16:32You know, we have, you know, we go up and down emotionally and then your results go up
16:39and down because it's in alignment with however you're feeling at the moment you are selling
16:44or whatever you're thinking because you wing it.
16:47Right.
16:47And that's not healthy and it's also not sustainable and it can also be very exhausting.
16:53And so the antithesis and opposite of winging it, um, is to be able to systematize it.
17:01And do you get out of your own way?
17:05The moment you start saying things, doing things, behaving certain ways based on the
17:12emotional state that you're in, you get very unpredictable, inconsistent results.
17:17When you can get out of your own way and let the systems run the result, it's much more
17:24consistent and any good business is run by systems.
17:28People run the systems, systems run the business.
17:32And so the reality is what salespeople need to realize is that they're their own business
17:36and, you know, they need to systematize their sales processes.
17:41So it's extremely consistent.
17:43And when it's extremely consistent, you also get to be a master at it because you're doing
17:48the same thing at the same time, the same way all the time.
17:52And you don't sound robotic in nature, uh, it's authentic.
17:56It's, uh, it's real, but it's consistent.
18:00And so I have built systems for all the different stages of the sales cycle from the very start
18:08of the sale till the end of the sale.
18:09And it's, you step here, you step here, you step here, you step here, you step here, you
18:13step here.
18:13And you become a master at the art of that.
18:16That's the systems before I go to language questions on that.
18:21No, cause I'm not yet.
18:23I may ask a question about it, but I wanted to get the three pillars a little bit better.
18:27And then I might ask different questions on how they fit.
18:30Cause right now I'm wondering how do these all fit?
18:33And so give me the last piece and then I'll be able to ask some more questions.
18:38Yeah, you bet.
18:38So, you know, different sales industries have different nuances to them.
18:43I'm only in the financial services.
18:46Now it happens to be massive.
18:47It's bigger than the auto industry, but it's, it's, it's a big industry, but that's all I
18:52know.
18:52But I think there are similarities, uh, in pharmaceuticals, in auto, in steel, in real estate, you know,
18:59sales.
19:00Some people say sales, the sales, certain aspects of it is certain aspects.
19:04It's not, but in financial services, it basically encompasses two things.
19:08To overly simplified, um, managing assets for the benefit of financial security and insurance
19:16for the protection of a premature death or disability.
19:21So this is, this is life and disability insurance.
19:24This is managing assets in that space.
19:27Okay.
19:28In that space, um, they're the number one thing that prevents advisors from being great is
19:39their fear.
19:41And it's in all of us.
19:43It goes all the way back to Maslow's hierarchy of needs.
19:46And that essence of the fear is the fear of what other people think of us.
19:53And humans are programmed to want to be respected, to want to have a sense of belonging, to get
20:00approval, to be validated, to be loved.
20:03Uh, it's a human need.
20:04And so if I'm talking to you and I'm worried about what you're going to think about me, I'm
20:11going to do things that aren't necessarily in alignment with getting the ultimate result
20:17that you need and you need me to help you get.
20:21And that gets in the way.
20:22So people's fear is a big inhibit, right?
20:25Um, and so in our industry, you have to be a leader, not literally figuratively.
20:33You have to lead your clients one at a time.
20:36You're not, it's not like selling suits or shoes at Nordstrom's.
20:40If I'm calling on you as your financial advisor, if you end up liking me, that's a bonus.
20:46That's not important to me.
20:47What's important to me is that I can deliver financial security for you and your family.
20:53I can help you get to the area that you need to be.
20:58Sometimes I'm going to have to tell you things that you don't like to hear, but you need to
21:02hear.
21:02And sometimes I don't, but I need to lead you a big enemy in people in America of being
21:11better savers, better planners, and more financially secure is procrastination.
21:18I'll get around to it later.
21:20I'm young.
21:21I'm only 30.
21:22I don't need to start saving for retirement.
21:24Now that's a forever away.
21:25I'll start in 10 more years.
21:28Procrastination is a big problem.
21:29And so one of many examples for a good financial advisor is their job is to help their client
21:35stop procrastinating, stop making excuses and start spending less and saving more today.
21:43Right.
21:44And there's an art to delivering that.
21:47But at the end of the day, no client really wants to hear that.
21:50They like spending money.
21:50They don't want to have to save, you know, and you have to deliver that to them, but
21:55they could perceive it in a way that you're being too salesy.
21:59They could perceive it in a way that you're only telling them that because of the commission
22:03you're going to make or the trip you're going to earn or whatever.
22:08But only, you know, the truth.
22:10And that is, no, that I'm not going to apologize for how I get paid.
22:14But at the end of the day, I'm telling you have to do this because I've taken the time
22:18to understand you and you need to do this.
22:21And it's in your best interest.
22:23And I'm not really where it's like.
22:26In a different world, if you had cancer and I was an oncologist, if I'm a really, really,
22:32really good oncologist and you're a cancer patient, all you really want me to do is save
22:37your life.
22:38You're not looking to build a friendship with me.
22:40You want me to save your life.
22:41So if my bedside manner isn't all that good or this, that, and the other, but I'm the
22:45best surgical oncologist and I can save your life, that's most important to you, or at
22:49least it should be, right?
22:51If we become friends afterwards, great, but that's not what you're meeting me for.
22:55And it's the same with the financial advisor.
22:57They have to be on a mission of helping you get to the land of financial security.
23:02And in order to do that, they have to lead you.
23:05They have to know when to give you a high five.
23:07They have to know when to kick you in the butt.
23:08And sometimes it's hard to do if you're possessed with that fear of always wanting to be liked.
23:15So now we're into language.
23:16So if I could, in my space, in my industry, learn how to make that fear go away, I would
23:26be a billionaire 10 times over.
23:28It's impossible.
23:30We all have that fear.
23:32And as long as you're a human, you will have that fear.
23:34So it ain't ever going away.
23:36So then as a trainer, consultant, coach, my job was to figure out, okay, if it's never
23:41going to go away, how can I get more people to go through that fear?
23:47Because there's never going to be an absence of it.
23:50And language is a tool that gives reps a higher degree of self-confidence.
23:55Because if I know what to say, how to say it, when to say it in my sleep, I'm not
24:03full of
24:03a bunch of ums and ahs.
24:05I don't have uncomfortable slumping shoulders.
24:09I'm not nervous.
24:12I am going to be articulate.
24:15I'm going to be humbly confident and I'm not going to be stumbling on my words.
24:21So my language in the critical areas that need to be good, you could wake me up at three
24:28in the morning in my deepest REM and I could go and it would sound just as good as it
24:33would
24:33in the crisp of day.
24:34Reps need to have that because those are arrows in their quiver that build their self-confidence
24:40to take the courage that's necessary to be a leader to their clients one at a time.
24:45So language is important, not because when you get good at it, people buy from you.
24:50People buy from you when they trust you.
24:52People buy from you when they understand that you genuinely care about them and that you have
24:56their back and that you understand them, not because of your language.
25:00The language is for the advisor to give them confidence.
25:04Jim, the language sounds just like that you have to know your product inside and out.
25:09It sounds to me just like being an expert in your product or service and knowing all
25:16ins and outs, the pros and cons and the whole thing.
25:19How is that or is that different than the language that you teach?
25:23It's very different.
25:26Knowing your product is logical.
25:29Language is much more emotional.
25:32They both play a role in selling, but you're dealing with human behavior.
25:39As a financial advisor, if you don't know your product, you don't have a chance, but it's
25:44not a differentiator.
25:47It ain't rocket science.
25:48You're not a nuclear engineer.
25:50You know, the stock market, the underlying assets in that, you know, every financial advisor
25:58has got access with technology and everything else to the world of what's out there and
26:03they better understand it and they better be credentialized.
26:06They should be a CLU, a CFP.
26:08I mean, that should just be a given.
26:11If you don't know your product, like I said, you don't have a chance.
26:14But the emotional side of how you manage human behavior and connect with people, that goes
26:24far above and beyond and deeper than knowing your product.
26:29Okay, I got you.
26:30And we're entrepreneurs and business people in this audience here.
26:35What of the three levers, which of the three levers do we neglect or not really give the
26:41right focus on that we should?
26:44Out of those three that I preach about, by far my beliefs, the head space.
26:52And why do you say that the entrepreneurs and business people of the world today don't
26:58follow that, don't have that in place?
27:00Why is that, do you think?
27:03They don't have a deep enough connection to their purpose and their why and really clearly
27:09understand why it's important to them.
27:12And, you know, first of all, let's just agree that if you are a business leader and an entrepreneur,
27:19you're doing something that's hard to do.
27:22If it wasn't, everybody would do it.
27:24And whenever something is hard to do, you're going to hit bumps in the road.
27:29You're going to hit barricades.
27:30You're going to hit hurdles.
27:31And it's going to be tempting to throw in the towel.
27:35It's going to be tempting to quit.
27:37It's going to be tempting to settle for being mediocre.
27:40And in order to pursue the vision of being great, you better know why that's important
27:48to you.
27:49And I think a lot of people don't have that sense of clarity.
27:57And you think that if that's the first thing that we focus on, the mindset that we would
28:03get, you know, if we just started for the next month, just focused on that, we would
28:07get the biggest difference in our business.
28:10I think that'd be a phenomenal start.
28:12Yeah.
28:13It's like, you know, think about it this way.
28:15Get out of business.
28:17You set a goal.
28:20You and I are too old to do this now, but maybe 10, 20 years ago that you want to
28:23run
28:23a marathon, okay, but you told me you spent some time in Chicago.
28:28I used to go watch the Chicago marathon.
28:29It's not quite as big as the New York or Boston, but it's a big deal in Chicago.
28:33You know, a couple hundred thousand people do it.
28:35And there's a lot of people that are first timers.
28:38They just have this crazy goal.
28:40And by the way, I've never done it, but this story is still relative that they want to run
28:45the marathon.
28:45Um, you know, how they train their nutritional program, um, their diet, you know, all that
28:54kind of stuff.
28:55I'm not discounting that it's irrelevant.
28:57It's relevant, but the most important thing for them is their sense of achievement, drive,
29:05commitment, and determination.
29:06When the gun goes off that through hell or high water, no matter what happens, they're
29:13crossing the finish line.
29:14They could be in the most intense pain of their life.
29:17It doesn't matter.
29:18They're crossing the finish line.
29:20Their why and their drive is so intense that there's no physical derailment that can stop
29:28them and how they get around it.
29:31They won't even remember what choices they made.
29:33They don't, all they knew is you could cut my arm off my leg off.
29:37I'm crossing that finish line.
29:39Entrepreneurs a lot.
29:41They have that.
29:42They start a business and people, how did you make it?
29:45You know, 97% of people fail.
29:47How'd you make it this, that, and the other, a lot of them don't even know.
29:50They just know failure wasn't an option.
29:52Me being successful was so important.
29:56Every roadblock I hit, I figured it out and most would give up.
30:03Okay.
30:04I'm an entrepreneur business person.
30:07I've listened to this interview and I've, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm pumped up going to work
30:12Monday.
30:14What do I, what do I do different now?
30:16I've got my sales.
30:17I've got my product.
30:18I've got all my things that I do.
30:20I want, how do I incorporate and integrate these levers into my day, into my work week,
30:26into my daily, into my daily thing?
30:31Well, as you could probably imagine, I could spend hours on that question.
30:35You know, that's a complicated thing.
30:36You're an entrepreneur, you're a business owner, you're going to go into work on Monday
30:39and you're going to take these three things and bring them to life.
30:42First of all, you got to start with your culture and you got to have alignment with
30:45your people.
30:45You know, if you're, if you're a individual, you're a one man band, that's different.
30:51But if you got a company with 10 or 12 or 15 or a hundred people, y'all got to
30:57be singing
30:57the same tune.
30:58You know, what are your beliefs?
31:00Why are they that way?
31:02How do you communicate them to your team?
31:06Why should people do business with your company?
31:09You know, you might have that down as the CEO, lead entrepreneur, but can all of your employees
31:17sing the same tune the same way you do?
31:19You know, do you have alignment created in your organization?
31:25Is, you know, what you bring to market, whether it's a service, a technology, a good, you know,
31:32whatever it is, is it full of DNA?
31:34Is it different?
31:36Is it new?
31:36Is it attractive?
31:37And how do you talk about it?
31:39And how do you communicate what makes it DNA?
31:41And can all your employees do it as well?
31:44And what's your vision?
31:47And why is it important?
31:49And is it compelling enough, not just to you, but to your entire team?
31:55So I would say that those are the areas that you got to start.
32:00Start and overly communicate early and often with your team as to what those things are.
32:08Okay.
32:08Now I'm going to throw a wrench in the works.
32:11I'm just going to disrupt everything here because today the world has changed.
32:16It's not like the day when I used to do sales and beat the street and do a ton of
32:21things.
32:22We've got AI.
32:24We've got computers.
32:25We've got software that says do this, this, this, and this.
32:29We've got, whether we developed it for the company we work for or others have developed
32:35it and we've adapted it, wonderful ways to sell or produce or provide our product or
32:43service.
32:44But now we've got AI.
32:46So it's all automated, all kind of, not maybe all automated, but a lot of automation.
32:52And it's telling us what we need to do.
32:54So I'm thinking, well, you know, I go in Monday or whatever day of the work, and I've got my
32:59computer or my AI telling me, do these things, Tony, and call it a day.
33:03And now I've just listened to this interview with Jim and Tony saying, you've got to have
33:08these systems in place.
33:09And I'm just looking at both of these going, you know, AI has changed everything.
33:15Let's look at how that's changed.
33:17What, what do we keep?
33:18What don't we keep?
33:19Maybe that's the way to look at it.
33:23Well, I think I've probably said this two or three times already in this interview.
33:27I only know my business.
33:28I only know my industry.
33:29Right.
33:31And AI hasn't changed everything in my industry.
33:33So, but let's get out of my industry so I can prove my point.
33:36Okay.
33:37Let's get in the industry of physical fitness and personal health.
33:41All right.
33:42Because, you know, I'm assuming, you know, there are at the flip of a switch, there are
33:50AI coaches, trainers who you tell them your physique, your age, your BMI, your weight, your
33:59height, your blah, blah, blah.
34:00They'll tell you, they'll spit out in two seconds, your diet, your meal plan for the week.
34:07They'll spit out in two seconds, your exercise routine with videos instructing you how to
34:13do it, you know, boom, boom, boom, that you have more than you could possibly handle in
34:18five seconds in all of that space.
34:20So why the hell would you go out and hire a personal trainer for 200 bucks an hour where
34:25you can get it in three seconds from AI, right?
34:30Because there's so much more that computers and AI can't replicate.
34:35And that's a good example, because if you are 75 pounds overweight, and you're a chain
34:45smoker, you'd have to be an idiot to know that that's not good.
34:51That's not helpful, right?
34:53So that person knows that.
34:55But then if they know that, why wouldn't they just click on an AI button and four or five
35:00months from now, be ripped and quit smoking, because it's not that easy, right?
35:06And there's all kinds of baggage in their head.
35:09And there's, there's all kinds of stuff from their childhood.
35:13And there might be addicted to food for insecurity reasons.
35:17And they just, they know diets are good.
35:21They've tried 10 of them.
35:22None of them work.
35:24AI can tell them how to do it.
35:26It's, but it doesn't work.
35:28And so in my industry, people don't grow up young, get a college degree and say, when
35:32I'm 45, I want to be in middle management.
35:36I want to have credit card debt and I want to be broke.
35:39Nobody says that.
35:40Nobody sets out on that path, but yet a high, high, high percentage of Americans are.
35:45They don't like it.
35:47They don't want to be there.
35:48An AI agent could tell them, here's how much you should say.
35:52Here's some, you plug in your income.
35:53Here's how much you should spend.
35:54No more, here's how much you should save.
35:56Here's how to save it in two seconds.
35:59They don't do it because there's so much other stuff that goes with that.
36:05And it's so hard.
36:08And AI and computers in our lifetime, Tony, ain't ever going to do that.
36:14No, it won't.
36:15And I, I tell people there's a empty lot across the street from us and it takes one sentence
36:20to say, go build a house.
36:22Okay, great.
36:23But it takes a lot of work as we all know to really get a house, a proper house or
36:28get
36:29what you want in it and so forth.
36:31And where I'm kind of going with this is I'm looking at culture.
36:34I'm looking at how we work inside our company, regardless of the size, even if it's just a small
36:40operation, you still have subs and associates and brokers or agents or whoever, you still
36:45have people and, and, or a team that you work with or both.
36:50And you all have got to kind of work together.
36:54And I'm just thinking with, and yes, what you've said about AI is very, very, very true.
37:00Totally, totally correct.
37:02But it still does make some people think and that it's all you need.
37:08It does make millionaires right away if they, if they get on the right code or the right
37:12combination, let's put it that way, of the right things.
37:15But that isn't the end all, you still need that human aspect.
37:19We've talked about this a few times and I'm thinking of what role, what role this is all
37:24going to play in, especially in high performance organizations.
37:28You're very familiar with that.
37:31And perhaps maybe, maybe kind of take my question or this way, those three levers, those are pillars,
37:38however you want to say it, what, what they've done and what you've seen them change in terms
37:45of performance of, of companies.
37:46In other words, they've taken a company from one, one level to another.
37:50And just, I kind of want to go into how important that is.
37:54And, and, and despite the fact that AI, as you mentioned, has one sentence says, do this
38:00or whatever, it's not the end all.
38:03Yeah.
38:05I agree with everything you said.
38:07I'm a little bit unclear as to what you're asking me.
38:09I'm just kind of like looking into the culture, maybe, maybe what we see coming down the road
38:15in terms of the culture, because the, the AI culture is, is hot, is heavy.
38:21More and more communication is out there in social media and, and just about everywhere.
38:27AI, AI driven, a lot of fake AI.
38:30AI, and as you mentioned, anybody can look up AI right now and it will tell them how to
38:35do their job, how to make sales or how to do anything better, how to lose weight, how
38:39to get ripped, how to do whatever.
38:42It's starting to change the culture, but it, it seems to me it's not as real.
38:49It's not connected as, you know, for example, you and I sitting here having a real chat, AI
38:57I could have created an animation and created this whole mock interview, but it's not real.
39:02I guess that's where I'm going.
39:03It's changing the culture.
39:05And if we see that, that that's where things go and we can, we can stay clear of that and
39:13use that to help us.
39:15And, and those pillars are very, very important in that, in, in building that organization.
39:21What earlier I was talking about a person could just go to their desk and say, I, you know,
39:26whatever I need to sell this.
39:28I need to do this.
39:29I need to produce this, whatever AI, just going to spit stuff out.
39:32People are going to do it, call it a day and say, I'm done with my work, but, but did
39:37it really make a difference?
39:39Did it really get things taken care of?
39:42Did it really help?
39:42Did it really handle?
39:44I'm kind of going into the culture of that as opposed to, you know, mindset systems, language,
39:51and, and that as a culture that we should or could embrace in the higher performing organizations
39:58to really, to really make a difference.
40:02Yeah.
40:03And I think Tony, that that varies dramatically by industry.
40:07You know, there's some industries that, um, you know, have been unbelievably renovated,
40:16transformed, and are dramatically different today because of AI and because of the benefits
40:25that AI has brought in a positive way.
40:28And then there's some that aren't as dramatically.
40:31And then there's some that are in the middle, you know, um, you know, for, for example, um,
40:39you know, let's say that, uh, you were in the manufacturing business and you were, you,
40:46you owned a steel tubing company and you framed Amazon distribution warehouses.
40:52And you had, you know, a bunch of people that were like the best at going out precision
41:01measuring, um, you know, every square inch of those warehouses so that there was no over,
41:08you know, inventory of steel bot and this, that, and the other.
41:11And it was like a unique skillset.
41:13It was a gift and your company thrived because your guys that do that were like the best of
41:17the best, right?
41:18Um, you paid them well, it was important.
41:21Well, now you go out there with your iPhone and take a picture of the place.
41:23And AI tells you precisely within one, one millionth of an inch, how much steel you need.
41:29And, uh, those people are gone.
41:31That job doesn't even exist, you know?
41:33So, uh, that, that does happen.
41:35That, that does exist.
41:37Um, and then in others, it's not as valuable, but here's what I tell you, Tony.
41:43Um, I've had debates with friends and I'm not a technology guy.
41:48So I know conceptually how AI has changed the world and how it's changed my kids.
41:54My kids are 29, 27, 26.
41:57I mean, it's changed them.
41:58I mean, it's, it's had a dramatic impact on our society, but you know, I, I teach, I coach
42:04and I've had friends say, how much longer do you think you'll go?
42:09I'm like, well, I love what I do.
42:11I'm 58.
42:12I don't feel like I'm 58.
42:13I'm going to go for, I'm going to go as long as I keep loving it.
42:16Like, well, aren't you going to become outdated pretty soon?
42:18I mean, what are you talking about?
42:20They're like, pretty soon AI is going to replace you.
42:23I'm like, no, it's not like, Oh yeah, it is because not the technical definition, but
42:29a, a, um, a naive non-technical guy, the way AI software works is you feed it information
42:38and then it takes it.
42:40So I have a book I wrote that is a how to everything I teach.
42:44You just give AI that book.
42:46It reads the book and it can teach like Jim Efner.
42:48You know, if you gave AI my manual for all of my curriculums, it would just read every
42:53single letter, every single word in that.
42:55And then it could teach like Jim Efner.
42:57I make the argument.
42:58No, it can't because there's an emotional human connection in teaching and consulting that
43:04at least in our lifetime, computers can't replicate.
43:08Now, there are some things that AI makes really cool.
43:12Like for example, uh, I'm doing a new website, uh, and it is an expense and it is time, but
43:21it's about a 10th of the expense of what it would have been had I done it 10 years.
43:25Like when I, mine right now is eight and a half years old and, um, they didn't have AI
43:30then.
43:31And the amount of time and money it took to build my first website, which by the way,
43:35now is antiquated my, my LMS website.
43:39Um, the one I'm going to launch in March is like 10 times better.
43:44It was like 20 times faster and like one 20th of the cost because you don't have computers.
43:53I'm sorry.
43:54Computer programmers, manually writing code to create your website that took weeks and months.
44:03You got AI that does it in two seconds, you know?
44:06And so that I think is a really cool thing.
44:09And I got to have an LMS platform webpage to put all my online curriculums.
44:15I, so that part of my business, AI has really helped me.
44:19So.
44:20Yep.
44:20It's cool.
44:21You know?
44:22No, you got it right.
44:23There's, you've got to use it where you can.
44:26It helps me.
44:27It helps me.
44:27Uh, but only to a point and, but you still have to look it over.
44:31You just can't let AI go do everything by itself.
44:34It requires that intelligence.
44:37We refer to it as the human element, perhaps to look it over and make sure that it's right
44:42and correct.
44:43And it's what we want because otherwise it can just spit out garbage.
44:47It really can.
44:48I've seen it.
44:49I've seen it just because AI doesn't care.
44:52It doesn't have any understanding.
44:54It's just, if I say write a post, it's just a little, but it's not, it's, it's not enough
45:01or, uh, of what I really want.
45:04So it always requires that human will never get rid of that.
45:07And I really appreciate, um, everything that you've, you've had this little chat on multiple
45:12things.
45:13We talked about belief drives revenue and how we talked about the three levers, mindset,
45:19systems, and language, how that creates unstoppable sales performance.
45:23We really didn't kind of get into the sales, but I think it's understood that these points
45:29really create that infrastructure.
45:31And with that, you can really accomplish quite a lot.
45:34Jim, I just want to thank you so much.
45:35Oh, and your website again for everyone is P2P dash, the symbol dash, P2P dash academy.com.
45:48Thank you so much.
45:49That was very, very good.
45:51Thank you for that.
45:51It was really good to have you on.
45:53I really appreciate that.
45:55It's very stimulating.
45:56And it tells us sometimes guys, what's important, what's not important.
46:01And yes, we can use AI for whatever we want, but at the end, you still need to look it
46:06over
46:07and make sure that it sends that letter or that poster does whatever you want it to do
46:12the way that it should for your benefit, for your purpose.
46:15All right.
46:16Well, guys, if you liked this, share this with your friends, tell them about Jim, tell them
46:20about the three levers, tell them about what he's been through and what he's accomplished.
46:24He knows where it's at.
46:25He's built quite a system.
46:28We barely touched into it, but the three levers are really powerful.
46:33So please check that out.
46:35And wherever you're getting this, please follow the show.
46:37It helps to bring more amazing guests to you.
46:40All right.
46:41Thank you so much.
46:42And let's use this and let's help you move on your journey to success.
46:47Thanks.
46:47Remember, guys, just take action.
46:49Success awaits those who persevere and remain steadfast despite the odds.
46:54Sow good seeds.
46:55Do good deeds.
46:57And I'll see you on the next episode.
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