When “Smart” Gets in the Way of Growth

tony_durso

Most founders don’t stall because they lack intelligence or effort. They stall because complexity creeps in faster than clarity. Systems multiply, decisions slow, and leaders end up thinking harder instead of moving forward. This conversation challenges the assumption that being “smart” is the advantage — and explores why simplification, speed, and execution often outperform intelligence at scale.  What You’ll Learn • Why overthinking quietly slows execution and momentum  • How to test ideas without wasting months or capital  • When being the smartest person in the room becomes a liability  • How to hire people smarter than you without losing control  • What founders must unlearn to scale cleanly  About Safeer Qureshi Safeer Qureshi is an entrepreneur and investor who has helped build and scale more than two dozen companies across industries including software, media, aviation, insurance, and data systems. He focuses on simplifying execution, validating ideas quickly, and building teams and systems that scale without unnecessary complexity.   Sponsors & Partners  • Scaylor unifies all of your business data systems into one intelligent operating system — delivering full visibility, governance, and instant answers without spreadsheets or exports. Learn more at scaylor.com.  • Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide and offers everything you need to build, run, and grow an online store — from design and marketing to payments and checkout. Start your one-dollar-per-month trial at shopify.com/tony.  • For sponsorship opportunities, email ad-sales@libsyn.com.  Resources & Links Mentioned 🔗 Connect with Safeer Qureshi codestackcapital.com 🎙️ Listen to the Episode (audio/video)  🎵 Explore Tony’s Music tonydurso.com/music 📧 Get the Newsletter tonydurso.com/news  Tony’s Closing Words Use this and let’s help you Move on YOUR Journey to Success! Just Take Action. – Success awaits those who persevere and remain steadfast despite the odds. Sow good seeds, do good deeds and join me on the next episode.

Transcript

00:00My guest today is someone who's built companies by challenging those assumptions head on.

00:05He believes that being smart is overrated, and he backs that up with real-world execution,

00:11not just theory.

00:12He helps leaders test ideas without burning time or capital.

00:16I think the real thing is, it's not that you shouldn't be smart.

00:20I just think that sounding smart and that, you know, trying to just overcomplicating things,

00:26it's just a little bit overrated.

00:38Welcome back to the podcast.

00:40Now, let me talk to you for a moment as a leader.

00:42If you're running a company, you're making high-stake decisions, and you're carrying the weight of growth,

00:48you already know this.

00:50Being smart isn't the problem.

00:52You've done the research.

00:53You've hired good people.

00:55You understand your market and other people's market.

00:58And yet, progress sometimes slows.

01:01Execution drags.

01:03Teams hesitate.

01:04Decisions feel heavier than they should.

01:06What's going on?

01:07It's not because you lack intelligence, but because at a certain level, guys, thinking harder doesn't create clarity.

01:15Ready for this?

01:16It creates friction.

01:17You know, many leaders reach a point where their instincts are strong, but the systems around there aren't keeping pace,

01:23whether they're expecting to have the answers or whatnot.

01:27You know, there's a point where the real leverage, it lies in asking better questions, testing faster, and really getting

01:35out of your own way.

01:36And that's what today's conversation is all about.

01:38It's about why some founders and executives scale faster by doing less, not more.

01:45That's right, you heard it, by doing less, not more.

01:48We're going to talk about why letting go of the need to be the smartest person in the room often

01:54unlocks better teams, cleaner execution, and faster results.

01:59And this is going to be why many of the rules that you were taught may no longer apply at

02:05this stage of leadership.

02:07My guest today is someone who's built companies by challenging those assumptions head on.

02:12He believes that being smart is overrated, and he backs that up with real-world execution, not just theory.

02:20He helps leaders test ideas without burning time or capital, build teams that outperform them, and rethink what actually drives

02:28momentum at scale.

02:30Guys, if you're navigating complexity, growth, or transition right now, listen closely.

02:36Honestly, this conversation isn't about learning more.

02:38It's about unlearning what's slowing you down.

02:43Think about that.

02:44We're going to speak with Safir, who's going to tell us all about it.

02:47Let's dive in.

02:48Hi, Safir.

02:49Welcome to the Tony D'Erso Show.

02:52Hey, Tony.

02:52How are you?

02:53Doing great.

02:55This is quite a topic near and dear to my heart, as well as others, how to scale, how to

02:59grow.

03:01So, I cannot tell you how many people I've met in my life, unfortunately, that think that they're the smartest

03:07people in the world, and we have them.

03:10But is that really the best or not?

03:12We're going to find out.

03:13You know, we're going to find out and learn about – I want to learn about founders who think that

03:19less often can build more.

03:21It's quite the concept because you think you need more, you need more, but building less?

03:25And in order to properly frame this, I didn't give your full name or your background yet.

03:30Can you tell us how did it all start for you, Safir?

03:34What's your backstory?

03:36Yeah, absolutely.

03:38So, I mean, as you know, my name is Safir Qureshi.

03:41I've built several businesses, ran some of them into the ground as well.

03:46I started my first business when I was 14.

03:49I was in high school, and I was asking my parents, like, hey, everybody's, like, getting a job.

03:56Can I get a job, right?

03:58And, you know, being the son of Pakistani immigrant parents, they were like, are you crazy?

04:04You need to focus on your studies.

04:06I saw my dad starting a business, and I was like, okay, well, can I start a business?

04:09And they were like, yeah, fine, go ahead, as long as you just focus on your studies.

04:11So, I started doing graphic design because, you know, the school had Adobe Photoshop, and it was free.

04:18So, I started off with that graphic design firm.

04:20I always wanted to do video production, so slowly grew that into a video production firm,

04:25which turned into a film and TV production firm.

04:28It took off, and I said, wow, I am the best businessman ever.

04:31I am so smart.

04:32I know how to make hundreds of thousands of dollars, potentially millions.

04:37Why don't I just start giving money to all my friends with ideas and watch them grow?

04:41And that obviously didn't work out.

04:43They ran them into the ground.

04:44And so, I thought, okay, I can't have a 4% success rate, right?

04:48So, I started looking at different things, and I said, okay, this industry doesn't work.

04:52This works.

04:53That industry doesn't work.

04:54That works.

04:55And that didn't work either.

04:56To a certain extent, it did, and to a certain extent, it didn't.

05:00Some industries were easier for me because I had more experience in similar industries or same industries.

05:06But eventually, I found out that it was not just the industries or the companies.

05:11It was the people and the systems.

05:13And that's where I kind of started, or I guess that's like the story of the journey.

05:21Interesting.

05:21We're going to find out more about that because you've built a number of companies and have a very good

05:27success rate.

05:28We didn't talk about that yet.

05:29But for the audience here, pay on or listen on, and we're going to cover that.

05:34And one of the things that I want to cover, which right off at the beginning that I talked about

05:40in the intro as well, you're saying being smart is overrated.

05:44And people are thinking, no, you've got to be more smart.

05:46You've got to use AI.

05:47You've got to do this.

05:50There's this whole school of thought there.

05:52But you think, you say it's a myth.

05:55Well, a lot of people are too busy trying to be smart and trying to sound sophisticated, right?

06:02It's like when you hire a marketing company, they start using stuff like LTV and ROAS and, you know, CAC,

06:09customer acquisition costs and all of this.

06:11And you're thinking, wait, hold on, hold on.

06:12This is all getting too complicated.

06:14And it is.

06:15You know, I think that one of the rules that I have is you have to simplify and be as

06:20stupid as possible.

06:22I always, until I can completely understand the process, I try to break it down and I go, try to

06:28explain to me as if I am stupid.

06:30Sometimes I just say, look, man, I'm really dumb, right?

06:32And I'll believe it.

06:33I look, I don't understand anything.

06:35Break it down for me and try to understand.

06:36If I'm pretending to understand what's going on, that's just me like, you know, yeah, sure.

06:42People talking about, you know, you can fake it till you make it.

06:44But you can't just fake it into because then you don't control the conversation, right?

06:50You need to understand whether it's you go into a mechanic, you come out and a mechanic just says, yeah,

06:54you need, you know, blinker fluid.

06:57You know nothing about cars.

06:58You go, okay, yeah, sure.

06:59I'll just go ahead.

06:59So I think the real thing is it's not that you shouldn't be smart.

07:04I just think that sounding smart and that, you know, trying to just overcomplicating things, it's just a little bit

07:11overrated.

07:11You have to simplify and understand.

07:13And I think too many entrepreneurs, because a lot of them, especially founders, they come from industries that they want

07:19to, you know, start up in, right?

07:21So they come with a specific set of knowledge and they hold that to be, you know, the source of

07:27truth.

07:28And a lot of times I say there is no source of truth because the industry might be doing things

07:33a certain way.

07:33It's not just you.

07:34It might be the entire industry.

07:35But another industry might be doing something different that you can bring in and change entire industries.

07:41So if you think you're too smart and you know, and this is always how it has to be done,

07:45like, just take a look at Blockbuster, man.

07:47They were too smart for their own good.

07:49They had, you know, millions in research and said, no, no, no, this Netflix company isn't going to do well.

07:55Well, there you go.

07:58Good case in point.

07:59And again, this is Saphir Qureshi.

08:03Pardon me if I didn't say it correct.

08:04We're talking about how smart is overrated, guys, and why founders who think less often build more.

08:11And you're going to find out more about him at codestackcapital.com.

08:15Code is C-O-D-E, stackcapital.com.

08:20Saphir, there's so much I'm thinking about this, and I'm going to really dive deep into this and attack it

08:25from different angles.

08:27Now, when we get proposals, for example, that's a really good case in point here.

08:32When we get proposals at whatever level we are, we're entrepreneurs, we're founders, we get proposals, and it can look

08:40really, let's use a bad word, stupid or dumb on paper.

08:44And it was like, oh, man, what are you giving this to me?

08:47And yet, if you follow through on it, as you mentioned with some of these, it can really wind up

08:53working.

08:54So you talked about Blockbuster, and I'm trying to understand.

09:00I'm not even sure the exact question asked is I'm just trying to better understand why can it not look

09:06good but work?

09:07Maybe that's the question.

09:11Well, okay, I always say this, right?

09:14Sales is your business.

09:15Your business is sales, right?

09:17And it's also customer service, right?

09:19So if you can understand and grasp those two things really, really well, you're going to understand.

09:25You're just going to be successful.

09:27That's it.

09:27End of conversation, right?

09:28If you understand how to do sales, the hardest part of any business is sales.

09:33People might say, oh, no, it's product production.

09:35It's this.

09:35It's that.

09:36Whatever.

09:36No, it's sales.

09:36And I've seen it happen over and over again.

09:39If you can get that part down, then you've got it.

09:42And how do you get it down?

09:43You dumb it down.

09:44How do I get my first dollar in, right?

09:46And then you can worry about profit, revenue, all of that.

09:50That's great.

09:51But how do you get your first dollar in?

09:53There are lots of dumb ideas that seem dumb on paper, and a lot of them might seem dumb because

09:58of the experience that you've had.

10:00But once you actually start looking into it, the reason behind it, what it might be, then it works.

10:05There's a reason that a lot of companies that mimic Apple aren't as successful as Apple.

10:10When they think they're following their process, when they think they're following everything that they're doing step by step, there's

10:16a reason they're not that, right?

10:18Apple understands the fundamental of what makes them successful.

10:22And so you actually need to understand the fundamentals of how business works.

10:26So once you actually get that down, sure, there's actually how the industry works.

10:31But how does business work?

10:33And to me, at least, my goal is to always try and create capital as fast as possible.

10:39Try to bring in money as fast as possible.

10:42So when you look at that, that's a pretty straightforward answer.

10:46You already know it.

10:47You can watch all the podcasts, listen to all the podcasts, watch all the YouTube videos, but you know how

10:53to bring in that capital.

10:54Yes, we can talk about marketing and complicating, but it's like, okay, what's my product?

10:59Who's going to use it?

11:00How do I sell to them?

11:01Right?

11:02And so to answer your question, there are a lot of dumb ideas that work really, really well.

11:09Whether it's a trend like fidget spinners or Labubu, those guys figured out how to sell, how to get that

11:16first dollar in as fast as possible, right?

11:18Or whether it's a company like Apple, it all really comes down to, you know, how do I get my

11:25first dollar in, how fast, and how much can I scale this, in what way?

11:29So if you understand that, any dumb, air quotes, dumb idea will become smart.

11:34And you'll, you'll start to see it right away.

11:37Can the scale, has it been scaled?

11:39Has it been done in this industry before?

11:40No.

11:41Okay.

11:41Has it been done in another industry before?

11:44Probably.

11:44How did they do it?

11:46How can I bring it to my company and my industry?

11:48And that's how you can actually determine if an idea is dumb or viable, or it's going to be successful.

11:55Safir, not to argue with you, but what you've just said, from my point of view, is a very smart

12:01thing to say.

12:02It's not very stupid.

12:04Plus, I can use AI and say, what industry has done this, and who's done this?

12:11I'll make it up.

12:12Who's done podcasting, and who's done it successfully, and how did they do it, and how did they get sales,

12:17and boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

12:18I now have intelligence that I can now use to model or replicate for my stuff.

12:23So I hear the words you're saying, but my mind is going towards we need to be smarter, and we

12:31have tools that can give us more intelligence and help us be smarter.

12:35Yet, I'm still grasping with this less is more sort of idea.

12:41Well, look, what I just said to you was very simple.

12:44It was less, right?

12:46I dumbed it down, and I broke it down into just a couple of minutes, right?

12:49But now, let's start putting these systems together.

12:52Let's go to go high level and start putting all the – yes, there are tools that will actually help

12:56you, but a lot of people get way too lost in those tools.

12:59Those metrics, now all of a sudden, they're starting to become smarter, and they're starting to look at metrics, and

13:05a lot of people will – success is rare, right?

13:09So a lot of people look at, okay, what did this company do?

13:12They were successful.

13:12They'll copy it, and they'll focus very much on the metrics, and they'll focus too much on what the smart

13:18thing to do is.

13:19What I've actually done is a very simple, dumbed-down version of what most people will do, right?

13:25Most people will go down, they'll start looking at how to run ads, what to do, and they're going to

13:29start overcomplicating over and over and over again rather than just break it down and go, this is what works.

13:35I tried this.

13:36Let's try a little bit of this.

13:37It didn't work.

13:38Let's try a little bit of this.

13:39It didn't work.

13:40Let's try a little bit of this.

13:41It worked.

13:41Let's do more of this.

13:43Okay, it stopped working.

13:44Let's try something else while this is working, right?

13:47So that's a very simplistic way of looking at it.

13:50It's a very dumb way of looking at it, and if you first look at that, I'm not saying don't

13:54be smart.

13:55I'm just saying that don't be smart first.

13:57Don't try to be oversmart.

13:59Don't try to outsmart yourself from success.

14:04Don't be too smart because then you can actually blind yourself from success.

14:09Safir, I didn't accurately or fully give your track history.

14:15You've built multiple companies very successfully.

14:18You're running multiple companies right now very successfully, which is why I've invited you on the show.

14:25You're a tremendous success.

14:27Can you give us an overview summary so that the audience understands you're just not some guy that just left

14:33an AI session?

14:34You've been out there on the streets kicking the tires and so forth and building businesses.

14:40Tell us a little bit more about your success on this.

14:46Well, my success has been based off the systems that I've built and the people that I've kept around.

14:54And I think it's, to be very honest, it's a very simplistic, again, I keep using the word simplistic because

15:04it really is.

15:04If you have good people around you that can help you build good systems and they're good at their job,

15:09a lot of them will probably be smarter than you in certain areas.

15:12Because you're going to be successful.

15:15That's just what it is.

15:15Right now, I'm part of 26 companies, moving on to 27.

15:19And they range.

15:20It's not all like software.

15:21It goes from media production.

15:23And we have a company based out of Silicon Valley that builds software.

15:26And we partner up.

15:28CodeStack Capital funds those.

15:31Data Fluent builds them.

15:34And we essentially partner up with very, very smart people, smart entrepreneurs.

15:39One of the reasons that CodeStack Capital and Data Fluent's been successful is because of the people that we work

15:44with.

15:45I work with very smart entrepreneurs in their field.

15:48I get them to break things down and dumb things down for me.

15:52I ask them, where's the gap?

15:53How can we make money using your knowledge and your expertise and my resources?

15:58And that's what kind of makes me successful.

16:00We've done stuff in the aviation industry, in the insurance industry, in the automotive industry.

16:05And the way that we've done it, at least my way of success, is I find somebody that I've been

16:11working with or friends with or somebody that we've met.

16:14They've been kind of successful in their field, in their company.

16:18And maybe they've been in it for about five years, six years.

16:21They've made a few million dollars.

16:23And they say, I see this gap.

16:24And I would be the first customer.

16:25And they're not just like, oh, I have an idea.

16:28A lot of those guys have it down to the T.

16:31Here's the problem.

16:32Here's my solution.

16:33Here's what I need to build.

16:34And I promise you, it will sell.

16:35And then we go down.

16:37We do market testing.

16:38And we essentially built that company.

16:41And another thing is, again, I want to get to cash first.

16:45Everybody wants a unicorn.

16:46I want a billion-dollar company too, Tony.

16:48But how do we get money first, fast, and now?

16:53That makes very, very good sense.

16:55It's quite a lot of companies that you've helped and that you've grown.

16:58It's really quite the story here and very, very diverse, as you've said.

17:04And you've done it all on this premise of using their intelligence, not their resources,

17:12but what they know, and adding to it.

17:15So two dumb people make somebody smart, I guess.

17:19Well, look, I work with people that are a lot smarter than I am.

17:23And then I ask them to dumb it down for me because I'm not super smart, right?

17:28So I go, look, can we talk about it in a way that I can understand?

17:32Okay, well, what if we tried this here because we tried this in this specific industry or in

17:37this company?

17:38What if we tried this?

17:39Do you think this will work?

17:40And we basically bring two people together, one of them very intelligent with experience

17:45in the industry, the other one who might not be as intelligent but still has the resources

17:50and the experience in building things, and then we go ahead and build things.

17:53Now, one of my close friends and business partners, Witt, he's from the aviation industry.

17:59He flies a 757 for United out of Denver.

18:03And when he came to me with this idea where he was like, oh, I want to create this connection

18:07app and this like social media app for people that are like for aircrew, for pilots on their

18:14layover.

18:14And at first I was like, what are you talking about?

18:16As soon as I hear the word like social media, I'm like, I'm out.

18:20It's like hearing like crypto or AI.

18:22It's like, oh, I got to be very careful.

18:24My ears go up, right?

18:25So I started talking to him more and I realized he's a very intelligent individual and he had

18:31it like planned out, not only how we're going to build this thing, but also,

18:37what we're going to do to make it successful.

18:39And we've been running it and it's been pretty good.

18:41So it was, even though it on the surface, you know, it seemed like maybe it's not the

18:46best idea.

18:47Once we actually did some research and actually looked into it and looked into the systems,

18:51it turned out to be way better than we expected.

18:54I'm thinking with this and I'm thinking when you do something like that, how can you, how

18:59can you, even though it sounds good in your mind or even on paper without throwing a ton

19:03of money and a lot of trial and error, how can you validate that it's actually going

19:08to, going to work and be the model you want to, you put a lot more resources into?

19:13Well, you have to use the most, like the biggest resource, probably the most scarce resource

19:20you probably have as well, depending on who you are.

19:22Uh, and you have to, if you are going to invest in something, you have to use a resource that

19:27everybody has, but not everybody utilizes in the best way time.

19:31You actually have to put time into it.

19:34You have to go down and listen to people that are actually going to be customers, not just

19:39somebody who had an idea.

19:40Right?

19:40So you actually have to talk to multiple people about, Hey, I'm thinking about doing this.

19:46And people love, especially businessmen, entrepreneurs, they love talking about solutions

19:51that could potentially be in their industry, right?

19:53If you're an entrepreneur, you've probably cold called, you probably door knocked, you've

19:57a hundred percent been rejected.

19:59You don't mind talking to people and spending a little bit of your time.

20:03I am a part of 26, moving on to 27 companies.

20:06I still, every company that we actually invest in, I spend time talking to potential customers

20:13and Tony, you're not going to believe the amount of times where they've helped us come

20:17up with features that we didn't even think of that my business partner that was, Oh yeah,

20:21this would be amazing.

20:22Oh yeah, this would be, you know, really, really helpful for the industry.

20:26And that specific feature will sometimes be the selling point.

20:29It will be the unique selling proposition of that company or of that software.

20:34That's absolutely amazing.

20:35You know, we're entrepreneurs, we're business people in the audience, and we have built

20:40whatever we've built, or it's been handed to us or however it's worked out.

20:44And we have our protocols and our, what we should be doing.

20:47But you, one of the things you do is you, you'll, you'll break rules or push the boundaries

20:54of what other founders, they're afraid to even challenge or go there.

20:58So tell us about how that all comes into play.

21:01Uh, I think, uh, most entrepreneurs, um, are rule breakers, right?

21:08They, they're on their way to create their own path.

21:12And that's no disrespect to lawyers or doctors or engineers or people who went to university.

21:17Like they, they, you know, it's, it takes a lot to become a doctor, a lot to become a

21:22lawyer.

21:23Right.

21:23But at the end of the day, it's like, Hey, you follow this, here's a roadmap and you're

21:27going to be successful.

21:28There is no roadmap to business.

21:30Yes.

21:31There are MBAs.

21:31Yes.

21:32There, but when you actually get a beating in the market, that's when you realize that

21:37that's, you know, there's your roadmap, right?

21:39It's like throwing somebody into a boxing ring with just gloves on and be like, Hey, figure

21:44it out.

21:44So I think most entrepreneurs are rule breakers, but a lot of them will actually conform to

21:50certain rules with, whether it's within the industry, whether it's, uh, you know, it's

21:55in their mind or it's their process.

21:56Um, and the best way that I like to look at it is, does it have to be done this

22:01way?

22:01Is there a better way to do this?

22:03It doesn't matter what it is.

22:04Is there a better way to do this?

22:06And a lot of times that requires rule breaking and that requires, you know, this is how

22:11it's always been done.

22:12And this is why, well, why does this feature have to be here?

22:16Well, this is okay.

22:17Can we just merge it into this?

22:19Oh yeah.

22:20We didn't think of that.

22:21I mean, I guess technically we can do it like this, but why hasn't anybody done it like

22:24this?

22:25There are so many times where we'll come up with something that's so simple.

22:28And the question we ask ourselves is like, why hasn't anybody else done it?

22:32Oh, that's just not how we do it in the industry.

22:34So I always challenge people to look for rules or look for areas where certain things have

22:40been done a certain way and ask yourself, can I improvise or sorry, can I improve this

22:47process?

22:48And, you know, sometimes it's these little things that can be as simple as I have to click

22:54two buttons, but you simplify it by clicking one button and a lot of people will just prefer

22:59that.

22:59So, you know, always be fixing things and making them better.

23:04And that really does require a little bit of rule breaking, sometimes a lot of rule breaking.

23:08Very interesting.

23:10Now I've come from three decades in corporate America, working for others and working.

23:16And my takeaway, things could be different today, Safir, but my takeaway is the founders,

23:22founders, the CEOs unequivocally think they're the smartest, they know the best.

23:28They built a company.

23:29Come on.

23:29They built it from their blood, sweat and tears.

23:33So there's some ego in there.

23:34There's some pride in there.

23:37And they generally don't like, this is my experience, don't like to be told that they don't know

23:43their business or they don't know it well enough.

23:47And if you talk to them about hiring people that are smarter than them, first, you're going

23:51to hit that ego.

23:52You're going to get that weight.

23:54I'm the one that built the company.

23:55I'm paying you to help me grow it, not to tell me, you're not being paid the big bucks

24:00to tell me that I don't know my business.

24:02You're standing here in this building because I built it from scratch.

24:05So you, so you get that, it's a little juxtaposition on all of this.

24:08So you want to get people that are smart, that can help you, but yet you don't want

24:14to affect that core of what's built the company.

24:17And I'm just kind of thinking with this, cause this is, this is a really great point.

24:21Can you, can you help figure out how, how do leaders actually do this?

24:24How should they?

24:25Well, a lot of corporate America, you know, when it comes to like certain CEOs, they've

24:31been doing certain things in such a long way.

24:33You know, they have that curse of knowledge that they forget sometimes a simple task or

24:37that they, they don't understand that things can be changed or things can change over time.

24:42But I think a lot of people, even though they don't like to admit it, they understand that

24:48there are people that are, I'm not saying just hire somebody smarter than you overall,

24:51but sometimes, actually a lot of times you have to find somebody that knows more about

24:57you in a specific thing that you understand is important.

25:00So if I don't understand accounting, okay, I'm not going to hire an accountant that knows

25:04just as much as I do in accounting.

25:07So whether they like to admit it or not, they've hired an accountant that's smarter than them

25:11in accounting, cause that's his job, specializes in that job.

25:14So when they look at it from that, when you look at it from that angle, I'm going to hire

25:18a marketing team that does, you know, marketing, but I'm not going to tell them how to do their

25:23job.

25:23I'll keep an eye on them.

25:24I'll try to understand.

25:24I'll try to dumb it down for myself, but I'm not going to keep an eye on them and micromanage

25:29them.

25:29Otherwise these guys wouldn't be where they are, whether they like to admit it or not, whether

25:32they, whether it's their egos, whether it's just them not realizing it.

25:36Um, but a lot of times you have to do that.

25:40And, you know, it's not saying like, just hire somebody and let them do whatever they

25:43want.

25:44You have to dumb it down for yourself, understand it.

25:48But I think without me having to say, this is what they should do.

25:51I think a lot of them already understand.

25:53They just don't know how to frame it.

25:54Right?

25:55So if I'm hiring a marketing company and I'm saying, oh yeah, I just, I, I know as much

26:00as I, they know as much as I do, and I just don't have the time to do it.

26:03That's why they're doing it for me.

26:04You're ultimately going to fail.

26:05It's just going to fail.

26:07But if, if you know everything that's going on in every part of your company and it's

26:11grown to a corporate, you know, level, something is wrong.

26:15Like something you, you either don't know what you're talking about, or you are 10% of the

26:21potential where you can actually be.

26:22You're at the 10% potential, you know, and you are stopping yourself from growth.

26:27You're not taking input from people that have, you know, may have a lot more experience,

26:31may have some creativity to add.

26:34Um, and they're doing this every single day.

26:37If somebody is, you know, doing something every single day, they're specialized in that.

26:41I guarantee you, they have more knowledge on that topic than you do, where you're trying

26:47to manage sales, you know, books, customer service, marketing, and being a CEO.

26:54Very interesting.

26:55Well, they, they don't want to lose control, but the one thing, and I saw this a little

26:59bit, not that I saw it a lot and it could be, it could be more, I don't know.

27:02I haven't worked a job in a while, but when you hire people, uh, and they look good on paper

27:08and they look good.

27:09And, uh, in terms of what they've done and resources, you go, this person is a good fit

27:15and they sound really smart and intelligent.

27:17They can be very smart and intelligent, but as time goes on, there's this disconnect between

27:24really making the company go and them doing their things like, oh, you plus added to that

27:31as if that was the question now added to that.

27:34Oh, they, they, the person you've hired just goes to the, the best AI out there and says,

27:40how do you do this?

27:41Oh, you do this.

27:42Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

27:43Okay, good.

27:43I'm done.

27:44I'm out of here.

27:45And you get these, and I started to see this way before AI, you know, which we didn't have

27:50way back in the day, but I started seeing where the person comes across very smart, intelligent,

27:57puts the, puts the work together, but it doesn't, it doesn't do a darn thing in growing

28:03the company.

28:04It doesn't make you 10 more cents, but it looks good.

28:06It, it smiles, it moves, it does whatever, but it does, it's not connected.

28:10So I, I'm not, I'm not quite sure, but I'm just trying to think of this balance between

28:16bringing in smart people, but if they're too smart, can they stop things or not grow the

28:22company, but they look good.

28:24You know what, you know where I'm going with it?

28:26Yeah, I know.

28:27I know.

28:27We have had a few of those in our companies.

28:30Um, so first of all, I'll give you a little secret.

28:32Okay.

28:33Um, take a real life process that you've already solved during an interview.

28:39Um, and, and ask them that and how they would fix it, you know, throughout the interview.

28:45First of all, I want to say one thing.

28:47AI is not a bad thing.

28:48If they're utilizing AI to improve their processes, whatever it may be, it's not a bad thing,

28:53but they must actually be experts, not just sound smart, but they must actually be experts.

28:59How do you know if somebody is an expert?

29:00Well, you bring them in, you ask them, they're all sounding smart.

29:04They're using all the, the lingo.

29:07And then you say, that's great.

29:08Now break it down for me.

29:10Break it down for me as if I'm five years old.

29:12I don't understand.

29:13Right.

29:13If you ask, for example, a carpenter, Hey, how do you build a table?

29:18They're going to break it down for you.

29:19We had an electrician at our home the other day.

29:21He wouldn't let me leave his side.

29:23I'm like, dude, I'm working.

29:24He goes, no, no, no.

29:25Let me explain to you how he was so passionate about his work.

29:27And I didn't want to know, but now I understand it's the difference between a dimmer switch

29:33and a regular switch and a three-way switch and why it's important.

29:36But you know, he was very passionate about his job.

29:40And I'm not just saying that you should get, go, don't hire people like, uh, you know,

29:43if they don't do that, but if they can break it down for you and actually break it

29:47down in a way that you can understand.

29:50And the way that you do it is you ask them questions about stuff that you've already solved

29:55and see how they would do it.

29:57Is this the right way to do it?

29:58Well, this is the way we did it.

30:00Oh, damn.

30:00If we did it this way, could we have done it a better way?

30:04Right.

30:04So that's how you actually get somebody to understand, or you get somebody and you understand

30:11if they're just sounding smart or they're actually an expert in what you're hiring them

30:16for.

30:17And once you get that, okay, great, go ahead and use AI, but use your intellect to actually

30:22make it unique to our company and actually solve problems that we're going to have or

30:27that we know we're going to face.

30:29It's very interesting.

30:30I like that.

30:31And when you're working with companies, when you're scaling, do you find people are mistrained

30:40that you have to teach them on certain things in order to grow their companies?

30:44You're coming in as an expert.

30:46You're part of the company now.

30:48You're invested in it and you have a lot of experience and resources that you bring to

30:53the table.

30:54What are you finding out there that you go, oh, we got to sort this part out, aside from

30:58the fact of dumbing things down so you can understand, so everything is baby simple to

31:02understand?

31:04Well, two things.

31:04One, you know, there's, you have to have a really good system, right?

31:10You have to have a proven system that works for a company and you have to train them on

31:14that and everything else, you know, they can unlearn if this system, what it is, what

31:20works for you.

31:21Now I'm going to say something that's kind of contradictory to that, which is don't be

31:25afraid to learn from them and unlearn part of your system.

31:29If they can improve the system, don't be afraid to listen to their suggestions and try

31:34it out.

31:34So there's lots of things that you can unlearn.

31:37One of the things that I had to learn unlearn and that a lot of entrepreneurs unlearn is I

31:42got to build this perfect system in order for me to be able to sell it.

31:46And I just know what the market wants.

31:48No, build it, create an MVP just enough that it works because your customers are going to

31:54complain regardless because they're not you, right?

31:58We've built so much like so many different products where it's like, we didn't even know

32:02we could be used this way.

32:03We created a CRM system and somebody was using the, like, it's a traveling CRM system where

32:09you can, you know, for, for door knockers and insurance companies and people who do stuff

32:15like solar, you know, pest control and all of that.

32:17And there was a guy who was just using it to, you know, mark all the bourbon stores and

32:21using features in ways that we never thought it would.

32:25So it's like, don't be afraid to learn from them.

32:28But, you know, because ultimately it will help you improve.

32:31And if it doesn't, then you, you know, you just learn what not to do.

32:33That's totally okay.

32:36You know, with companies, it almost seems like there's two parts to it.

32:42And, you know, there's the product or service.

32:45So it's a product or service that's been built and created by a founder or has, is a very

32:50great ideas, you know, AKA your case in point, your, your pilot that has this great app.

32:57So it's, it's something that, you know, is really needed, needed in the market.

33:01That's really good.

33:02So you've got a product or service that you're then going to develop.

33:06And it's just really getting the, the issues, the problems with that sorted out and the

33:11best people to get that out at, at, at something that's not going to be too expensive or, or

33:17it's sustainable.

33:19In other words, you're not every year forever spending more than you're making.

33:23So you've got that.

33:24But then the other part of it is the world changes and that's where, you know, it changes.

33:29And that's why I think we need smart people because it changes so fast that, you know, you

33:35know, these names, Pepsi, uh, Chevrolet, AT&T, Mercedes Benz, uh, Ford, Toyota, you know, these

33:43names, you, you, every single person hearing this knows those names.

33:46Yeah, Tony, we've heard them all the time, but these are companies that have reinvented

33:50and re-added, you know, they just didn't keep doing the same thing.

33:55So there's kind of two parts to it.

33:57One is keep your products and services going as I seem to understand, but the others as the

34:02world changes, you know, when I grew up, there was a, a, a bicycle that was everywhere.

34:08It was a, what's the ubiquitous.

34:10It was everybody, everybody had a Schwinn bike, everybody, everybody, everybody.

34:15And then it just disappeared and you never heard about it again.

34:18And then all of a sudden they've made a comeback and now they're in a mountain bikes or whatever.

34:22And they're all over and they're huge again because they have to reinvent themselves and

34:26they just don't stop at their core.

34:28You know, I spoke with, um, the person who took Starbucks from 28 stores to 15,000 and

34:35he, he came up with the, uh, he and his team worked out the, uh, the Frappuccino.

34:39They had to redevelop and create some, they just didn't say, no, we're just going to do

34:43our coffee and that's it.

34:45There was this add on.

34:47So it's almost like to grow, you have to add this section or part of the company.

34:52That's almost acts like a startup that, that, that finds something new that because the

34:58world keeps changing.

34:59So that seems to be part of it.

35:01And I think that that is part of why you want to bring on smart people because you don't

35:07know everything that's going to happen.

35:09Who knows what's going to happen next week?

35:10Another trade embargo, another country being raided.

35:14We don't know, but yet we still have to sell our products and services.

35:18Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely.

35:21100%.

35:21And like I said, look, a lot of these smart people are doing things that can be very easily

35:26dumbed down.

35:27For example, you can have a very, very good marketing firm.

35:30They could, you know, do AB testing and run different campaigns and all of that.

35:34And all of that's great, but it's as simple as if it's not working, do something different

35:39until it does.

35:40Once it does do more of it, you know, it's a very complicated process that we just dumbed down,

35:45but you're right.

35:45But you do have to work with smart people in order for you to be successful.

35:50Do you think somewhere along the line that, and I talk about this because I talk about

35:55you mentioned the roadmap and I developed something called the vision map because you need that

36:00as a business person and entrepreneur to know where you're going.

36:03You just don't go and take off somewhere.

36:05You don't take a vacation without knowing or having any kind of map or phone to direct

36:10you how to get there.

36:11You just don't.

36:12It's like unheard of.

36:13So you need a map in business.

36:15And one of the points that I bring up when I do talks and stuff is if you have a

36:21new product

36:22and you're developing it, most products, not all, not 100%, but there has to be a point

36:27where you make a dollar or you make something or you know this is workable.

36:31This is going to be.

36:31There has to be a point usually within a couple months, like, you know, within like 90 days.

36:37You've got to know that it's proven and it's going to, and it's going to make it.

36:41But, but even today, even that seems to be too much.

36:44But again, it depends on the product, you know, where you, you have to get to a point

36:51where, you know, this is going to go, let's invest more resources.

36:54And I want to understand where that point is from your point of view.

36:59This is, the product is good.

37:01People are buying it or maybe not buying it or people say they want it.

37:04Where at this point do you go, okay, great.

37:07We can really, we, let's put some fuel on this.

37:11Yeah.

37:12It's as simple as don't wait until the product is built to ask people if they're going to

37:16use it or need it.

37:18Start from when you have the idea.

37:20Hey, would you use this?

37:21Would you use this?

37:21Let's just say, I don't know, you created something that, you know, works for, you know,

37:28ranches and you're like, Hey, I, this, this fence fastener or whatever is the best fence

37:34fastener in the world.

37:35And I know they're going to use it.

37:37You go to a hundred people.

37:38They're like, why do you're innovating for no reason, right?

37:41What we have is good enough.

37:43Okay, great.

37:44Now you haven't invested the resources you haven't invested.

37:47You know, it's so whether it's going to work or not, but it could be as simple as,

37:51you know, everybody's saying, damn, I'd buy this right away.

37:54And you're going to start seeing interest right away.

37:55But they're the mistake that people make is once they get that initial like validation,

38:01they stop.

38:02You have to be validating from the inception of the idea to the creation of the product

38:09and beyond, right?

38:11People start listening to their customers after they've made the product.

38:15And then they're like, Oh, wait a second.

38:16And these guys aren't even our customers are like, yeah, somebody said like, Oh yeah,

38:20this is a great idea, but they're not even in the industry.

38:23Right?

38:24So it's, you have to keep validating.

38:27And, you know, you're saying you should have a plan.

38:29Yes.

38:29Yes, absolutely.

38:31But the plan is going to change a thousand times.

38:33Just like that, your product is going to have multiple iterations.

38:36And so when you go ahead and start, you know, consistently staying in the market and asking

38:42people, you know, we're talking about my friend, with the pilot, he is so type a, like

38:48he's the complete opposite of me.

38:50But the one thing he's really, really good at is consistently asking people for feedback

38:55constantly.

38:56And he's always on top of it.

38:58I'm not just talking about, Oh, I, you know, we have this idea.

39:01We were going to trade shows before the app was built.

39:03We were talking to pilots and flight attendants and air crew, and even people that, you know,

39:08have had this idea before, but they've never acted on it.

39:11And just asking people like, would you use this?

39:14How would you use this?

39:15What do you think?

39:16Et cetera, et cetera.

39:17So to answer your question, it should be all the time.

39:21That point that, you know, when should I validate my idea?

39:24As soon as you think of it.

39:27I like that market research to people even want your product or service.

39:31And, and there are people that will say, yeah, it's a great idea, but would they buy

39:35it?

39:35Would, would they, would they use it?

39:38It's, it's, it's, it's a matter of researching and drilling down on it.

39:42And for those that are listening to us, are there things, I mean, we, we've talked a couple

39:47of different things here, a couple of different points.

39:49Is there something people should just kind of like, wait, take pause and focus on something

39:54else instead?

39:55What do you think people should be doing right now in the business and entrepreneurial world?

40:02Um, I mean, there are so many things, Tony, there are so many things that, that people

40:07should be doing and they aren't, there are so many different points of failure, but I

40:11think too many people are focused on the product and not enough on their customers or potential

40:17customers and their profit.

40:20Right.

40:20So let's focus on the customers first, right?

40:23They say the customer's always right.

40:25Maybe, I don't know, sometimes, uh, but the market will tell you.

40:31And I think if people are more focused on their customers and more focused on the process of

40:36not just validating the product initially and then focusing really hard on selling it,

40:41but focused on where's the money coming from, right?

40:44It's all there.

40:45We've all heard it before.

40:46Follow the money.

40:47Where's it coming from?

40:48Who's giving it up?

40:49Where, you know?

40:50So if you just do that, you've, and you focus on that, you're going to be fine.

40:55Focus on the customer, the customer service.

40:58Why?

40:59Like, why would anybody even want to give you their money?

41:01Are they excited about it?

41:03Are they, is this the right target market?

41:05Is this the right, what matters to this customer?

41:08How do I not just get them, but how do I keep them and focus more on the customer?

41:14Focus more on what they, why, if, you know, some people are buying a lot of a certain thing

41:20from you, why are they, like, why are they purchasing it, right?

41:24How do I get more of this?

41:26So I think the reality of it is, is, you know, there's that.

41:29And then a lot of people more recently, you know, I think this is a, um, you know,

41:36tail as long as time, but, uh, a lot of people, they focus very hard on, on revenue and not

41:41enough on profit.

41:43And I've seen that I've like, I've seen some of the entrepreneurs that I work with, you

41:47know, focus on that.

41:49And they're just like, yeah, like, what do you take home?

41:51Oh, you know, I take this much as a salary.

41:53Okay.

41:54What's left over?

41:55Oh, it turns out they're in debt and they've made like $5 million that year.

41:58So, you know, focus hard on the, the customer and the money, and then you'll be fine.

42:03Again, it comes down to sales and customer service.

42:06It's true.

42:06And while you were saying this, you made me think of something like way back in the day.

42:11So it's your fault when, when I was doing fast food and we had this big sign there, you

42:17know, customer's always right.

42:19And it was like, these are just words.

42:20You don't understand these words.

42:22And then one day someone comes back and says, I didn't put some French fries that she ordered

42:27in her bag.

42:29Yeah.

42:29But I know, I remember I, you're a kid, your memory is superior back then.

42:33Right.

42:33I remember manager didn't care.

42:35Took a bag of fries, put it in a bag, gave it to her.

42:37She was happy.

42:38And guess what?

42:40She kept coming back.

42:41She kept coming back.

42:42She kept coming back.

42:43It took me a while to understand the customer is always right.

42:47Now I'm not trying to start a trend with that or not.

42:51Whether, whether it's the customer is right or not, the market's always right.

42:55The market will tell you if your product is viable or not.

42:58The market will tell you, yes, your customer will tell you too.

43:01Sure.

43:02Customers will, you know, there's many different ways we can talk about for days on customer

43:07service and what's the right thing and what's the wrong thing.

43:10And what do you do when you know the customer's lying or, you know, or, but the truth is the

43:15market's always right.

43:16So if you just focus on what the market's telling you and how it's telling it to you,

43:24you're going to figure it out.

43:25I like that a lot.

43:26And last question, kind of a little free fall here is I want to get your point of view on

43:32AI and our reliance on it for all the companies you, you, you, you, you help a disparate, a

43:40great number of companies, 20, 27, by the time this airs, what's your take on AR?

43:46How much, how much does it help?

43:48How much should we use it?

43:50Just what's your take on this whole thing?

43:53Wow.

43:54That's a good question.

43:56So I, I don't think AI is a bad thing.

43:59I think AI is a tool, right?

44:01You can use it right.

44:02You can use it wrong.

44:03I think it is going to make people a lot more diligent.

44:07You know, like back in the day, we, we, even now we look at like, how are like our older

44:12grandparents getting scammed by these Indian phone calls and the call centers and all of

44:17that?

44:17Like, I don't understand how we're going to have that with AI.

44:20We all are going to, they're going to dupe us when we're older, right?

44:23They're going to take advantage of us, but there's also going to be lots of good stuff

44:27happening.

44:27There's going to be lots of crazy innovation, lots of things that are going to make our

44:31life easier.

44:32You know, back in the day, we used to have to ride a horse.

44:34Now we've got planes.

44:36It's not a bad thing.

44:38You have to be malleable and you have to make sure that you change with it, right?

44:43If you are resisting it the way that some people resisted the internet, you're going to get

44:48wiped out.

44:49But I don't think it's something that we need to resist.

44:52I think it's something that we need to learn, understand, and dumb down for us.

44:57Like I've had AI dumbed down for me as much as possible so that way I can understand it.

45:01And once you have that, whether it's AI, whether it's a complicated process, whatever it may

45:04be, once you have it simplified and understood, it becomes less scary.

45:09And now you start thinking, how can I use this to my advantage?

45:13Very, very good.

45:14Once again, this is Safir Kourashi.

45:17We talked about smart is overrated and why founders who think less often build more.

45:23You can find him at codestackcapital.com.

45:27Wow.

45:28What a lot of good advice from someone who's in there in the trenches right now.

45:32I just want to thank you so much for coming on the show and talking to us about this.

45:37I really appreciated this.

45:39Hey, no problem, Tony.

45:40And again, if there are any entrepreneurs, I love to have conversations.

45:43I love to see what they're doing, where they are in their business, how we can collaborate.

45:48You can reach out to me on LinkedIn, Safir Kourashi.

45:50You can also reach out at codestackcapital.com.

45:53You can also reach out to me on Instagram.

45:54It's Safir Snaps, S-A-F-E-E-R-S-N-A-P-S.

45:59I look forward to hearing from you guys.

46:02And thank you so much, Tony, for having me on the show.

46:05Sounds good.

46:06Sounds good.

46:07I want to just thank you so much, Safir.

46:09And to our audience here, if you like this, share this with your friends.

46:13Tell them about Safir and tell them what he's been through, what he's accomplished.

46:17He's in there with a lot of companies to help them really grow big and very, very successful.

46:23So he knows his stuff.

46:25So definitely always follow and listen to people that have been through there and can share that experience with you.

46:30And wherever you're getting this, guys, please follow the show.

46:33It helps to bring in more amazing guests to you.

46:36All right, let's use this and let's help you move on your journey to success.

46:39Thanks and remember, just take action.

46:42Success awaits those who persevere and remain steadfast despite the odds.

46:48Sow good seeds, do good deeds.

46:50And I'll see you on the next episode.

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