Resilient Leadership in an Age of Adversity and AI

tony_durso

Dave Burnett is a serial entrepreneur, former hockey enforcer, and AI-driven marketing strategist who has built and rebuilt businesses through extreme disruption. From taking punches on the ice to navigating a $70K-per-month business loss, and later recovering from a traumatic brain injury that erased nearly two years of memory, Dave’s journey reveals what resilience really looks like when the pressure is real.  His work today focuses on helping companies gain visibility in an AI-dominated search landscape — a frontier every entrepreneur must now understand.  What You’ll Learn • How early experiences in high-performance sports shape entrepreneurial discipline  • The hard decisions required when a business suddenly drops to zero revenue  • Why resilience is built through structure, not motivation  • Lessons from recovering after a traumatic brain injury  • How entrepreneurs can reclaim time as their most valuable asset   About Dave Burnett Dave Burnett is the founder of AOK Marketing and PromotionalProducts.com. He began his career as a hockey enforcer in Canada before transitioning into entrepreneurship, building multiple companies including an early digital rewards platform later acquired for over $100M. After surviving a traumatic brain injury, Dave re-engineered how he works, structures time, and builds businesses. Today, he helps organizations adapt to AI-powered discovery, reputation management, and digital visibility.  Sponsors & Partners  • Imagine you’re a business owner relying on a dozen different software programs to run your company — each one more complicated than the last. Odoo solves that by bringing CRM, accounting, HR, marketing, inventory, and more into a single, simple, scalable platform.  Streamline everything with Odoo at odoo.com.  • Shopify gives entrepreneurs everything they need to start and grow a business — online and in person. With beautiful templates, built-in AI tools, and integrated marketing features, Shopify makes launching and scaling simple. Start your business with a $1 per month trial at shopify.com/tony. • For sponsorship opportunities, email ad-sales@libsyn.com.  Resources & Links Mentioned  1 🔗 Connect with Dave Burnett: www.aokmarketing.com  3 🎧 Listen on Apple: https://tonydurso.com/apple  4 🎵 Tony’s Music: https://tonydurso.com/music  5 📧 Join the Newsletter: https://tonydurso.com/news  6 🎥 Watch the Video: https://tonydurso.com/videos  Tony’s Closing Words Use this and let’s help you Move on YOUR Journey to Success! Just Take Action. – Success awaits those who persevere and remain steadfast despite the odds. Sow good seeds, do good deeds and join me on the next episode.

Transcript

00:00Guys, if you ever faced overwhelmed financial pressure, burnout, like every day, right?

00:06Or the fear of losing momentum, this episode is going to give you a blueprint for getting

00:12back up stronger than ever.

00:14How can you stay in the game?

00:16How can you keep going?

00:18How can you pivot?

00:18How can you change as opposed to defining winning and losing?

00:30Welcome back to the podcast.

00:35Now, every entrepreneur hits seasons where the pressure feels like too much.

00:41You know, the numbers don't make sense.

00:43Your energy is depleted and the next move feels unclear.

00:47Sounds very similar, doesn't it?

00:49Well, today's guest, Dave Burnett, has lived through all of that in a way most people never

00:55will.

00:56So before becoming an AI-driven business strategist, Dave was a hockey enforcer.

01:01How cool is that?

01:02His job was to take hits so others didn't have to.

01:06And that mindset of resilience followed him into business.

01:09But the real story, guys, and why you need to hear this is what happened later.

01:16Dave found himself staring at a $70,000 per month loss.

01:21Ouch.

01:22And he was unsure how to keep the company afloat.

01:24And then a traumatic brain injury nearly took away his ability to work more than 15 minutes

01:32at a time.

01:34Now, most people, I think, would break under that level of pressure.

01:38Dave rebuilt from it.

01:40In this conversation, we're going to unpack the systems, the mindset shifts, and honest

01:47lessons that he learned while clawing his way back.

01:50Lessons that you and I think every entrepreneur needs if you want to stay standing through your

01:57own storms.

01:58Guys, if you ever faced overwhelmed financial pressure, burnout, like every day, right?

02:05Or the fear of losing momentum.

02:07This episode is going to give you a blueprint for getting back up stronger than ever.

02:12Let's begin.

02:13Let's go bring him on.

02:14Hi, Dave.

02:16Welcome to the Tony D'Erso Show.

02:18Hey, Tony.

02:18Thanks so much for having me.

02:19I appreciate it.

02:20Oh, the honor is mine.

02:21I'm looking forward to this.

02:23I love hockey.

02:25Separate comment.

02:26But, you know, we're all here looking forward to learn about how to rise and be resilient.

02:34You know, as I mentioned, you were a hockey enforcer, and now you're an AI-driven entrepreneurial

02:41leadership expert.

02:42It's very interesting, very cool.

02:45And could you fill us in a little bit, Dave, and tell us your backstory?

02:48How did it all start for you?

02:51Absolutely.

02:51And I don't usually start these conversations with talking about how many times I got punched

02:55in the face.

02:57In this case, quite literally about being the hockey enforcer.

03:00But that was one of the things that got me on my journey was understanding that if a role

03:06isn't built for you, then you should step out of it.

03:09I was a teenager in Canada playing hockey.

03:13So what a hockey enforcer does for those who aren't that familiar with the sport, at least,

03:16you know, 30 years ago, you would have somebody on the team who would go out and get the

03:21crowd all riled up because you would go out and fight somebody else and win the fight

03:25and change the flow of the game.

03:27And I was actually a defenseman who wasn't a fighter, who wasn't an enforcer.

03:33And then what happened was I got in a situation where I was playing pretty high level.

03:37A guy from the NHL got sent down to the level, and I got called up to the level above me that

03:42I was playing, and we ended up getting into a fight.

03:44Everybody in the ice got into a fight.

03:46You know, there's the old saying, you go to a fight and a hockey game broke out.

03:50And so everybody in the ice was fighting, and I happened to be paired up with the guy

03:53from the NHL.

03:55And we fought, and I won.

03:58And as a result of winning that fight, the coach looked at me and said, well, now because

04:02you can fight, you're going to fight.

04:04So I ended up going up pretty much every game and just fighting and then fighting another

04:08guy the next game and fighting another guy.

04:10You know, six broken noses later, taking more stitches than I care to count.

04:15I said, enough is enough.

04:17And unfortunately, the coach at that time, you know, had full control over everything

04:21in relations to my contract, in relation to where I was.

04:24So I ended up quitting the game of hockey.

04:26And as a result of that, I had to move on and figure out what else I was going to do with

04:31life because taking stitches and punches to the face was not ideal.

04:35So I don't normally start off the business podcasts with that, but hopefully that gives

04:40you a little bit of background.

04:41So I went to school and my first entrepreneur, I'll give you a little backstory.

04:46My first entrepreneurial journey was in school.

04:48I ended up doing a sampling business.

04:50If you've ever gone into Costco and seen people giving out food, that was my first business,

04:54except here in Ontario, we could actually do that with liquor and beer.

04:59And so I did that in the liquor store and beer store.

05:01So I gave out samples of booze as my first business.

05:04I ended up having 50 employees working for me when I was in third year university.

05:07So that was a great start, sold that business to my partner at the time, and then got into

05:14the promotional products business.

05:16So T-shirts, hats, pens, all those kinds of good things.

05:19And while in that business, I actually started a third business, which is now called Achievers.com.

05:24So me and a partner actually started up, it was originally called I Love Rewards, and it

05:29was the first, going back to 2000 here, it was the first digital online points program.

05:34So that business grew and grew.

05:37I left it in 2002.

05:39It continued to grow and get acquired by some private equity and then sold to another private

05:45equity firm in 2015 for $110 million.

05:48So that was an interesting ride.

05:51I wasn't along for a lot of it, but it was a really interesting ride.

05:54But what I did was I actually went through and carried on with the promotional products

05:58business.

05:59And you mentioned losing $70,000 a month.

06:02That happened in the Great Recession.

06:04I was, you know, all of a sudden, there was no demand at all for promotional products.

06:09And I had lots of overhead, lots of staff.

06:11So I was losing $70,000 a month and realized I had to pivot.

06:15So I went out and bought 3,000 URLs, 3,000 website addresses, and put up 500 websites and

06:22got good at digital marketing, got good at SEO.

06:24So that's where my second business, or yeah, at that point, it would have been my third,

06:30my fourth business actually, was the AOK marketing business because people discovered our websites.

06:37People discovered that I was good at SEO and our competition actually asked me to do SEO

06:42for them.

06:43So by the 2010, I was doing SEO and our promotional products business came back from the dead.

06:49So I ended up with two businesses, which I still have today, which are AOK marketing and

06:53promotionalproducts.com.

06:55And so you also talked about my traumatic brain injury.

06:59So back in 2018, we were doing some home renovations.

07:03And the home renovations were going well.

07:05We're just about finished.

07:06We had some brick replaced on the front of our place with stone.

07:11And my wife said to me, hey, can you go and grab some of the stone?

07:14I want to line our path to be able to have nice looking stone on our path.

07:18And these stones were four inches wide by 10 inches tall by 48 inches long.

07:22So big pieces of stone, weighed 175 pounds.

07:26So I went out into the garage, got a trolley, brought it out to the front, picked up one

07:31of these stone pieces and was putting it on the trolley and was bending over.

07:34And I thought to myself, oh, I'm going to really hurt my back.

07:37Like I'm not designed for this.

07:39And so I let it go.

07:40And when I dropped it from about a foot and a half above the trolley, it hit the trolley

07:44funny and the trolley came up and hit me in the side of the head.

07:47So I basically got a metal bar to the side of my head on December 4th, 2018.

07:53I finished moving the stuff, went inside.

07:55I said to my wife, like, I got hit in the head.

07:58And she said, are you OK?

08:00And I was like, yeah, I think so.

08:01But I'm going to I'm going to go to bed and, you know, just keep an eye on me.

08:03I may have had a concussion or something because I've had four or five concussions in the past

08:07because of numerous things, hockey mostly.

08:09And so then but the next day I woke up and I literally couldn't function.

08:15I would spend 15 minutes working.

08:18You mentioned this in the intro.

08:20I'd spend 15 minutes working and then 45 minutes sleeping and then 15 minutes working and 45

08:25minutes sleeping.

08:27I would do that all day until I got to 530.

08:29I would have some dinner and I'd go to bed.

08:31That was my life for four months.

08:34So that was into 2019 and I continued on that way.

08:39Now, the thing is, I have the I have the worst joke ever because I don't remember 2019 and

08:46I don't remember the first half of 2020.

08:49So the worst joke ever is so I heard there was a pandemic like I am the only person I think

08:55on earth who does not remember the pandemic.

08:58And I'm sure lots of people wish they could, but I wouldn't wish the brain injury on anybody.

09:02So I ended up getting some alternative treatment in the halfway through 2020, September of 2020.

09:08And I got my brain back.

09:11So I've taken this real initiative to make the most out of every day that I can.

09:17I hope that other people don't have to go through that kind of trauma to then have to

09:21try and move things forward.

09:23Everybody's got their baggage.

09:24Everybody has what things that they have to go through.

09:26So I was doing that.

09:28And, you know, just trying to be better the whole time.

09:31And so where I am today is I was actually an open AI beta tester before I got injured.

09:35So 2017, 2018.

09:37And then when my brain came back, I still had both my businesses because I've got great

09:41people who work for me and they did amazing things through that time because I can't even

09:45imagine what it was like to work for me through then.

09:47And as a result of that, I now do GEO or SEO for AI or whatever you want to call it.

09:54We help people get discovered through AI, through the chat GPTs of the world, Gemini's of the

09:59world, all that kind of stuff.

10:00So that's where we are today.

10:01Still have the promotional products business, but that's kind of the top level overview of

10:06where I've been.

10:06So hopefully that makes sense of how we're talking today.

10:09Dave, what a story and so many questions I have.

10:13I feel, I feel, I feel sad and remiss for watching so many hockey games because I'm just not

10:22trying to crack a joke, but it kind of comes out that way because my wife turned me on to

10:27hockey way back in the day and we became hardcore hockey fans living in the Los Angeles area,

10:34you know, LA Kings.

10:36And the biggest excitement was when they would have a fight.

10:40And now contrary or different than like wrestling or whatever, we knew that these were real.

10:46They were heated.

10:47They were heated exchanges.

10:48They, there were, there was nothing fake about them whatsoever.

10:51Not that anyone says hockey fighting is fake, but it really great created an extra adrenaline

10:59rush in the crowd.

11:00And, you know, to see that happen is like, you know, um, and now I feel kind of remiss for

11:06enjoying all that.

11:08Well, and you have to, you shouldn't, I know.

11:11It's just, I'm just, my silliness is coming up.

11:15Um, and, and I'm very curious about the enforcer.

11:21That's sort of a tough, you know, it's the tough guy attitude out there on the ice.

11:26And I'm wondering how that, how did that help you aside from the brain injury, which is a

11:33whole separate communication I want to talk about as well.

11:37Uh, have, like I say, I have so many questions, but I'm curious how that shaped your mindset

11:43as a business owner and leader.

11:44And just before we get into that, I just want to tell the audience, this is Dave Burnett

11:49and you can find him at aokmarketing.com.

11:53He mentioned the company name, but it's aokmarketing.com.

11:57Um, and, and what, what a resilient rise that I mentioned earlier is what we're going to

12:04talk about and what you've done here.

12:06So over to you now, the first thing, the first thing I guess is how that mentality, you know,

12:15we've, I've had many guests to talk about sports and things, how that's helped them in business.

12:19And I'm curious, how did that help you navigate to a very successful business?

12:24I may say.

12:25Yeah.

12:26Well, the, the training associated with being a high performance athlete is the bigger thing

12:32that impacted me as opposed to the enforcer side of things.

12:36I mean, everything kind of comes together, but when you're paying, playing at a high level

12:40of any sport or any activity whatsoever, you're spending so much time.

12:44You need to have discipline.

12:45You need to have time dedicated to do it.

12:49And so I was a teenager.

12:51I was in, uh, you know, in, in Ontario at the time, we actually had 13, we had grade 13,

12:57you know, it just, we had a bonus year of high school, just so you know.

13:00So, um, I w I would have been the equivalent of a junior or grade 11, uh, when I was playing

13:06hockey and I was playing hockey where we had to drive three hours away to go play a three

13:11hour game and then a three hour drive back on the bus.

13:14And this would be on like a Tuesday night.

13:17So how do you keep up with school?

13:19How do you keep up with your practices?

13:21How do you keep up with, you know, this type of travel and still be able to succeed in various

13:27ways required a lot of hard work.

13:30So I was really lucky that I was able to do that kind of hard work and continue on because

13:36when I ended up quitting hockey, which was halfway through my senior year, even though I had one

13:41more year of high school still to go, I basically had to really buckle down and get into university

13:47or college as a result of my grades, not because I was a college athlete anymore.

13:53I was actually going to go to the U S, uh, hopefully on a scholarship to Dartmouth university

13:59back before I quit.

14:01So I gave up any talks with Dartmouth, I would, you know, New Hampshire wasn't too far from

14:06Toronto and it was all going to be great.

14:08But when I, when I stopped playing because of the, uh, what was required of me as an enforcer,

14:13I, I stopped.

14:15I just couldn't do it anymore.

14:16I, I, it taught me a lot about being able to put up with stuff that you shouldn't be

14:22doing or don't need to do.

14:24And really kind of, you have to, at certain points, take your destiny in your own hand

14:30and just move on to something else that isn't painful, literally that isn't going to result

14:36in, you know, damage to yourself, whether that's mentally or physically and doing the

14:41right thing for yourself.

14:42Sometimes what you just have to do, you have to leave that role.

14:45You have to leave that boss.

14:46You have to move on with life and do what you know is right.

14:51So the discipline associated with the practice, the discipline associated with, um, making it

14:57through those things was really helpful in terms of forming the entrepreneur that I have

15:02since become.

15:03And I'm thinking with this, you know, nine hours, and this is after school, three hour bus

15:09ride there, three hour game, three hour back, and then you still have to take care of your

15:14school and all it's, it's, it's wow.

15:18It's formidable to, to, to consider for, for a younger person, a teenager who's going through

15:23school to do that.

15:24And I'm thinking of your formative years on the ice and what you've learned and what you've

15:29been through.

15:30And I'm wondering, are there, you may have mentioned some, but are there like strong,

15:35hardcore lessons that have really helped you grow the business that you say that you feel

15:40is because of, of that, because of those formative years, especially in hockey and, and being

15:47an athlete.

15:48I really kind of want to drill into that a little bit.

15:51Yeah.

15:51I mean, the, what it really helped me do and Simon Sinek kind of, I didn't really understand

15:57it at first, but Simon Sinek put it in a great way that, that helps me understand what I was

16:02going through at the time.

16:04So what, what, what helped in terms of formative years was that hockey is a hockey game has a

16:11very specific, defined start, middle, end, there's very specific rules about somebody

16:18winning, somebody losing.

16:19And at the end of the game, people cheer and go home and, you know, do all that kind of

16:23stuff.

16:24Business is very different.

16:26From my perspective, there really isn't that same kind of winning.

16:31What there is, is business is an infinite game as opposed to a finite game.

16:35So a hockey game is a finite game.

16:37Business is an infinite game.

16:38The difference being there's no real defined start, middle, end, there's no real way to

16:43win.

16:44Even if you are the most successful business in the world, that's only for a period of

16:48time.

16:49I mean, you can look at history, all the different successful businesses, how they've, you know,

16:52risen and fallen.

16:54And so for me, it became really, how can you stay in the game?

16:59How can you keep going?

17:00How can you pivot?

17:01How can you change as opposed to defining winning and losing?

17:05Because you only lose in business when you give up.

17:09So for example, I started my first business in 97.

17:13This is before Google was invented.

17:15I now do SEO for AI.

17:17Like it wasn't even, it wasn't even a thing.

17:20It was literally, hadn't been invented yet.

17:22I mean, AI, you know, predates that significantly.

17:25It's the fifties and sixties when it first started, but Google didn't.

17:29So how do I have a Google agency?

17:30So the only way that I did that was understanding that you need to change.

17:34You need to pivot, you need to continuously learn.

17:37So the ability to be able to adapt to circumstances, change what you're doing, provide value to

17:42people is, is really been the biggest lesson that I've learned is that this is not a finite

17:47game until you decide you quit, which is what I did in hockey.

17:51It just ended that game.

17:53But this is, this is something that since then the business game, you just don't quit.

17:58You just keep going.

17:59So that was really formative for me in terms of my perspective on business.

18:05Kind of like drilled in the mindset of just don't quit, just keep going, just keep going,

18:12just keep going, because that is really the simplified way to success.

18:17There's a, there's a lot to it to keep going.

18:20It's just a couple of simple words, but that's really the, the pure essence.

18:24Well, and the other thing, if I may add, there's also the hours and hours of lonely practice,

18:33lonely strife, learning the lessons in the dark, you know, by yourself at whatever time

18:39of night for me, for hockey, it was taking, you know, another thousand slap shots.

18:43It was doing whatever may be that I needed to do to work on that skill that I didn't have.

18:49It's the same in business, right?

18:51Everybody's like, oh, this amazing thing happened.

18:53Like, you know, the business sold for $110 million.

18:56And, but the, the reality is that was 15 years after it was formed and gone through several

19:02iterations.

19:02And I, I'd left it early on as, as I mentioned, but it's, you know, everybody thinks, wow,

19:08that's, that's amazing.

19:08But they don't see all the hard work.

19:10And I can't take credit for a lot of the hard work in that particular business.

19:13It's the, it's the behind the scenes when you're alone, when nobody is patting you on

19:19the back, when you're doing the same thing over and over again, when you're facing that,

19:23that thing that you just can't figure out and how will it, how it'll work.

19:28And you don't know the answer.

19:30I mean, love them or hate them, but Elon Musk said it very well.

19:33He said, it's like staring into the abyss while you're chewing glass because you don't

19:39know what's coming next.

19:40And there's a lot of pain through the whole process.

19:43So I'm not trying to turn anybody off from being an entrepreneur.

19:46You just got to choose and know that you got to choose your hard is the way I think about

19:50it.

19:51You are going to choose hard in the form of, I'm going to work for somebody else and I'm

19:57going to do my best job I can.

19:58And then I'm going to retire at X date.

20:00And I'm going to have X amount of money that I've earned.

20:02That's hard.

20:03You're going to choose hard in the form of a boss you don't like.

20:06You're going to choose, or you can choose hard in terms of being an entrepreneur.

20:09And having the uncertainty that the buck stops with you.

20:12And can you make the next paycheck?

20:14Are you going to lose $70,000 next month?

20:17Are you going to make $100,000 next month?

20:19You don't know how it's going to turn out because there's so many external factors.

20:23And so you're there grinding away.

20:26It's hard.

20:27Nobody talks about really, at least a lot of, not a lot of people talk about how hard

20:30it is, but it is hard.

20:32And you need to, you need to just keep going because there is no stop.

20:37That's, that's the thing.

20:39There's no one else really to depend on when you're the entrepreneur.

20:43It's you.

20:43You've got to work.

20:45You've got to put in the 80, 100 hours a week, whatever it takes.

20:48It just doesn't matter because your whole family, your livelihood, the pay, the payment

20:52of your bills all depends and rests on your shoulders.

20:56Yeah.

20:57Yeah, totally.

20:58And I, I think in terms of the order of your life, the, the, the business, um, where you

21:07talk, where you lost $70,000 a month, that was before you had the brain, the brain trauma.

21:12It was before.

21:13Yeah.

21:13All right.

21:14What happened that, you know, I mean, it's to lose $70,000 a month.

21:20It's not necessarily a something sudden though.

21:22It can be, was something happening, what was happening, how did you realize it and what,

21:28what did you pivot to?

21:29What, what, what changes did you make?

21:31So it did actually, it was coming.

21:34So this was the great recession.

21:37So dating myself back into 2007.

21:39And what happened was I'm working in Canada, working with Canadian branch offices of U S

21:45corporations.

21:46So doing, doing very well.

21:49And what happened was when Lehman brothers went out of business in September of 2007, I

21:55thought, oh, we're in big trouble.

21:56But what happened was business kept going till the end of 2007, because I didn't realize

22:02it at the time because of my lack of experience, but there were budgets that were already set

22:06for the rest of 2007.

22:08So we were doing fine, even though the U S was crashing, the market was crashing, the

22:14world was ending, you know, all that kind of stuff.

22:16And then what happened was January 1st, 2008, the phone stopped ringing, like literally stopped.

22:25There was nothing going on.

22:26Nobody had budget, no events were happening, nothing happened at all.

22:31So that January of 2007, when I had full staff still anticipating working everything, I just,

22:39there was nothing, there was no revenue.

22:40We went to, we went to basically zero revenue, um, from a multimillion dollar company.

22:45And so that just caused huge problems.

22:50So unfortunately I had to let people go the next month, still losing money, still had

22:55to let people go, still losing money, still had to let people go, had to let our, our

22:59office space go, had to let everything go, move back into the house.

23:05And then the last person who I let go other than my wife was a woman who was pregnant.

23:09And I kept her on and literally put the last payroll that she was on before she went on to

23:14maternity leave on my credit card.

23:16So, cause I'd run out of all the savings, everything was done.

23:21And we got down to just my wife and I in the business.

23:24And fortunately with just my wife and I in the business, because she stayed home with

23:28the kids, we were able to make ends meet when we got rid of all the overheads.

23:33And, you know, I lost a ton of amazing people through that whole process, but they all understood.

23:38They're like, the phone isn't ringing.

23:40There's nobody buying anything.

23:41We, we get it.

23:42So they were amazing, even in that side of things, but it was, it was really hard time.

23:47So did I see it coming?

23:49Yes.

23:50Ish.

23:51Could I have done better planning?

23:53Maybe.

23:54But we didn't, it really kind of came on suddenly, you know, it was, it was kind of snuck up on

24:00you and then all at once.

24:02So that's, that's how that happened.

24:04Dave, what were you selling at the time?

24:06And what did you do to turn it into something positive?

24:09So we were selling promotional products.

24:12So t-shirts, hats, pens, mugs, any of those kinds of things that you would get as a sales

24:17rep, or you would give away at an event or all that kind of stuff.

24:21So sales reps stopped selling, events stopped happening.

24:25And so we just, nobody wanted any of the products.

24:27It was one of the first things that got cut is optional expense for a lot of people.

24:32And the same thing happened in COVID.

24:34No events were happening.

24:36Can you imagine in the middle of COVID, you know, somebody handing you a mug?

24:41You, it was radioactive, right?

24:43Like there is no way you wanted that mug.

24:45So again, the business went down to zero.

24:47But what happened the second time when the business went to zero, first of all, that was

24:50when I was concussed.

24:52That was when I had my brain injury.

24:54And so I had, as a result of what happened in 2007, 2008, I had saved working capital.

25:01I had saved money so that I had a year's worth of full overheads covered in the bank in cash.

25:09And so said to my people, this is, this is the situation.

25:13We have enough money.

25:14We've gone to zero before.

25:16This is something that I've seen before.

25:18So this was the other thing.

25:18The experience associated with seeing your business go to zero was really, really interesting

25:23to be able to look at it again and say, oh, this is where we are.

25:26This is what happens.

25:27I recognize this.

25:28But at this time, I had the second business, which I had talked about earlier in terms

25:32of pivoting, going out and buying URLs and pivoting into digital marketing was how I got

25:38through that stage back in 07, 08.

25:41And by 2010, that business was going quite well.

25:43And then in COVID, when everybody stayed home, digital marketing was huge.

25:48Everybody needed to sell digitally.

25:50So our digital business exploded while our promotional products business went to zero.

25:55So it was an interesting time.

25:57Plus, like I said, I couldn't function.

26:00I was just, I mean, I would be on phone calls like this and I would take notes because it

26:04was before all these amazing AI recorders were around.

26:08And I'd take notes and then I wouldn't remember the call.

26:11I'd talk to a client, wouldn't remember the call.

26:13I have to look at my notes again, talk to the client again, wouldn't remember the second

26:17call, have more notes.

26:18Like it was, it was a very difficult time.

26:21So now that time is when you had your, you had that brain injury.

26:26The second time.

26:27Yes.

26:28COVID, I had brain injury.

26:31So during the year, during, during, as you mentioned earlier, during the, our COVID period,

26:36you had, that's when you had that.

26:37And you, you mentioned something early on.

26:41You said there was a point where you were able to get your brain back.

26:44Can you, can you tell us what was it?

26:48Maybe there's something that we can learn to help become more, more aware as well of

26:52what we're doing.

26:53Yeah, absolutely.

26:54So I went through all the traditional channels to try and figure things out.

26:58I went to doctors.

26:59I went and saw a concussion specialist who treated the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Toronto

27:05Argos and the Blue Jays.

27:06I went to all the people, I went to all the top doctors in all the cities in Canada.

27:11And they basically said, these are the treatments.

27:13I saw neurologists, all these kinds of things.

27:16And they gave me all the treatments that you should do.

27:18And part of it was becoming disciplined about your day, disciplined about your food intake,

27:22disciplined about your habits, your sleep, all that kind of stuff.

27:25So I was doing all the right things, but I still wasn't getting better.

27:28So actually I went into some alternative treatments, which I would have thought were like kind of

27:33woo-woo, crazy stuff.

27:35And I was recommended a treatment that's called Syracet, Brain State Technologies.

27:40And what it is, is it's actually a, imagine a cap that you put on your head with brain

27:45sensors on the outside of your head.

27:47And then you have like earbuds in your ears.

27:50And what it does is it actually detects the electrical frequencies in your brain.

27:56The front two parts of your brain should be balanced with each other.

27:59And the back two parts of your brain should be balanced with each other.

28:02And that creates a good scenario where your brain is kind of in sync.

28:06My brain was completely messed up.

28:08And as a result, I had all kinds of inflammation from the injury, but also because my brain was

28:13out of sync.

28:14So this auditory, basically all it does is it gets, puts tones in your ears, higher tones

28:20in your brain would adjust and it corrects the balance of the electrical signals in your

28:24brain.

28:26So with 10 treatments, 10 hours, like one hour a night for 10 nights, I would go and I got

28:31this alternative treatment.

28:32And at the end of that, I was fine.

28:35My brain was back.

28:36I could sleep normally.

28:38I could carry on.

28:39I could remember things.

28:40And it was, it was life-changing for me, a complete alternative therapy that I highly

28:46recommend to everybody.

28:47If they've got concussion issues, check it out as one of the, I don't know, maybe not,

28:52don't leave it as your last resort, waste 18 months of your life.

28:56But that's, that's what I would recommend.

28:59That's how I fixed it.

28:59So when my brain came back, now I can remember conversations.

29:03Now I can start to think strategically.

29:05But I had all of the benefit of all of the discipline from the right kind of food, the

29:11right kind of energy, the right kind of daily planning that really is what's, what's setting

29:17me apart at this point.

29:18And it was a second lease on life.

29:20Like, what would you do if you, you thought tomorrow you were going to wake up and not

29:24remember?

29:24Like the last thing you remembered was a year ago.

29:27And, you know, it's, it was just amazing to wake up and remember the day.

29:31It's just such a gift that nobody, nobody understands until it's been taken from you.

29:37So now at my age, you know, I'm coming up to 50.

29:40I want to be able to squeeze every last drop out of every minute of every day, because I'm

29:47so grateful to be here and remembering and having this wonderful conversation.

29:51So I just, it's amazing.

29:54You learn not to be, not to take things for granted and to be grateful.

29:57Now, when that treatment finished and you were able to start remembering your past experience,

30:04your life, I mean, you talk about your life, that all just came back, the training, the

30:08lessons, the discipline, everything just started coming back.

30:12Well, no.

30:12So I did remember everything from 2018 and before, but I didn't remember any, I still don't

30:18remember anything from 2019 or 2020, but I'd also, it enabled me to sleep normally.

30:23It enabled me to be able to look at screens for a reasonable amount of time.

30:26It enabled me to just basically function as a normal person and apparently not tell the

30:31same story.

30:32Every time you pass that landmark, you know, you tell that story.

30:36Apparently I would do that every time to my family who are amazing for putting up with

30:39me.

30:39I'd pass a particular landmark, tell the story.

30:42The next time pass a landmark, tell that same story.

30:44And they had to pretend that they hadn't heard it before.

30:47So no, it was very hard on myself and very hard on everybody around me.

30:51Dave, in terms of our audience, entrepreneurs, business owners, I'm just thinking with this

30:58and I'm playing back this conversation.

31:00I'm thinking, what can I learn from this?

31:03I have more questions, but I'm just thinking, you know, gratitude, being grateful is probably

31:10one of the key most things to just also not take for granted.

31:15Because when you recovered, that's the one thing that you say was the most important is

31:21that ability to remember and know that these things happen, which we truly, we take for

31:27granted.

31:27We don't think about that at all as a blessing, as a gift.

31:31No, it's gratitude is the biggest thing.

31:34I mean, I learned some amazing coping mechanisms.

31:37I have very tight control over my days now as a result of not knowing what my day tomorrow

31:44was going to look like or what my day yesterday even was.

31:47So I learned a lot of things through this process, one of which, and I've actually got

31:52it kind of sitting here on my desk for those if this is recorded.

31:56This is a 10, it's a 10 by 10 square.

32:00So the math, I'm going to geek out a little bit here on actual things that you can use,

32:04but it's a little bit of geeky.

32:05In a day, there are 1,440 minutes.

32:10You usually sleep for seven or eight hours.

32:14So if you sleep for seven hours and 20 minutes, that's actually 440 minutes.

32:19So that leaves a thousand minutes left every day that you're awake.

32:23If you take a thousand minutes divided by 10, you end up with a hundred blocks.

32:28That's what I just held up as a sheet that's a 10 by 10 sheet of a hundred blocks.

32:33So I take a look at that every day.

32:36I write the time that I wake up, which is usually between five and six.

32:39That's when I start.

32:40I usually kind of follow up with people on my team.

32:43I've got people on my team who are in Europe and east of us who are earlier risers and follow

32:49up with the team for half an hour.

32:51So by 6 a.m., I spend between 6 and 11 and I have no meetings.

32:56I work on strategy in my businesses.

32:59I work on the key constraint, whatever is happening in the business that needs my most attention

33:04at that moment to try and fix it, to move it to the next level, whichever business it might be in.

33:08And then from 11 onwards, I basically usually am in meetings, but I book my meetings from 5.30

33:15backwards.

33:16So I get the longest period of uninterrupted time working on my business that I can.

33:22So, you know, my first meeting of the day will be at 5 to 5.30.

33:25Then the meeting before that will be 4.30 till 5 or however it works out working backwards.

33:29And what that does is it enables me to work on the most important things.

33:32But I also am very disciplined that, OK, at 5.30, I stop, go upstairs because I'm working

33:39in the basement, work from home, go upstairs, have dinner with the family till 5.30.

33:44My kids are 20 and 21.

33:45One's away at school.

33:46The other one commutes from home.

33:48So they only want to see me so much.

33:50And, you know, I spend an hour and a half with the family.

33:52And then from 7 till 9, I go back to work.

33:54And then from 9 till 10, I'll spend an hour with my wife, hanging out, watching Netflix or

33:58whatever it may be.

33:58And then I go to bed and do it all over again.

34:00So I'm very, very disciplined when it comes to my time, because I don't know how much

34:06of it I have left.

34:07I don't know how much of it is going to get taken away from me.

34:10So I'm going to maximize every bit of every day that I can.

34:13And when you actually organize your life this way, it really, really you're amazed at how

34:19much you can get done, because you just don't usually do the simple math.

34:23Like if you spend one more hour a day working on something, just one hour, but every day,

34:29and you do it for an entire year, if you divide that by 40, as if it was a working week, you

34:33actually get nine weeks more productivity by spending one hour a day on something.

34:39So the question is, could you change that one hour of that Netflix special into something

34:44more productive that's going to be learning for you?

34:47Is it going to be something that you could have to further yourself?

34:50Is it something to keep up with AI or whatever interests you?

34:54You just ended up with two months of additional time by taking that one hour per year.

35:01So how much can you accelerate your life by taking two hours, by maybe working from like

35:07what I do is 6 a.m. to 11 a.m. on a Saturday.

35:09That gives me five more hours a week just by doing that.

35:12And I do it on Sunday.

35:13So now I've got 10 more hours.

35:14So how much more time, how much faster can you move if you've got this additional time

35:20that you're allocating to whatever it is that interests you?

35:23And, you know, it may not be for everybody, but it's one way to maximize the time that you've got.

35:30Totally agree.

35:31You know, 15 years ago, I wrote and produced my first and only song, which I put on my podcast

35:40and it was downloaded over 2 million times.

35:43Wow.

35:43And I never wrote another song.

35:45And then believe it or not, I think I listened to this interview a couple months ago.

35:49I'm talking, I'm talking silly because I stopped watching as much as I could or should or not

35:56should or could, but I just stopped watching so much and I just started focusing on my passion

36:01and I started songwriting again.

36:03And in a couple of months, I've created an album, which is going to come out in by the time

36:09this interview hits my album will probably be out.

36:11And I never thought that I had it in me and I, it, it just work hasn't changed.

36:16I still do what I do on podcasting and everything else and running the business, but I just created

36:22extra time for me in something I loved, you know, that my passion.

36:27And, and I surprised myself in being, in, in coming up with songs that people love and

36:33a product that I never thought was possible simply because I changed my habit from viewing

36:39somebody else's creations to creating my own.

36:42It was just as simple as that.

36:43I didn't even know I had that in me.

36:45So that's why I say a couple of months ago, I was listening to this interview because

36:49I took that advice and it's, it's, it's, it's that powerful.

36:54No, it's, it's amazing.

36:55And congratulations on that.

36:56I look forward to hearing it when it comes out, or I guess when other people are hearing

36:59this, maybe it is already out and it's, you know, it's, it's spending that hour creating,

37:04as you said, instead of consuming, it's, it's just kind of a choice.

37:08So Dave, uh, last couple of things here, um, as I want to go over AI, you, you, you, you

37:15do a lot with AI.

37:17I like to understand better your business and talk about AI and maybe it's something that

37:23we can look, uh, look upon and focus for our business.

37:26It's, it, things have changed so much so fast.

37:29I can't even get over the changes.

37:32So, well, let's start here.

37:33Tell us about AI, the future, what you do and kind of like, let's, let's take it from

37:39there.

37:40Yeah, absolutely.

37:41As I mentioned earlier, I was a beta tester for open AI.

37:44So I've seen the changes as they were coming out.

37:47So they started out with different models right now.

37:50You've got, you know, chat GPT and, and chat GPT five and all those things, but started off

37:54with ADA and then Babbage and then Curie and then DaVinci and then DaVinci two and DaVinci

38:00three and DaVinci 3.5 is chat GPT.

38:04So that's how they named their models.

38:06And so through this whole process, I was watching it change large language models in particular.

38:11I was watching how it was changing, how it was getting better.

38:13I was trying to do with those earlier models, what you can now do with chat GPT, interact

38:18with it, chat with it, have it write you content, whatever it may be that you're using it for.

38:23And so what happened was when chat GPT was released in November of 2022, uh, some of our

38:29business was content for our clients on the marketing side.

38:32So it's a marketing agency, digital agency.

38:35And what happened was by January 31st of 2023.

38:40So less than three months later, our content business went to zero and losing, you know,

38:47losing all those clients and hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of revenue was a big hit to

38:52us.

38:53And so I was like, okay, I, this is obviously going to impact me.

38:56And so how can I do this?

38:58So I spent, I spent two weeks in February.

39:01I've literally stopped working, uh, anything except for AI.

39:05And I finally got caught up to where it was, you know, all the different options, not only

39:09chat GPT, but what else was out there caught up.

39:12And then all of a sudden in March of 2023, they released GPT-4.

39:16I was like, okay, fine.

39:17So I just, I had to learn more, had to learn more things.

39:20And then all these different things started to come out.

39:22So I, I do training for the Canadian marketing association and the, um, the PRSA, which is

39:28the public relations society of America on AI and how you can use it in marketing and a

39:33few different things.

39:34So as a result of that, what I did was I got good at how to use the tools, how to use AI.

39:42And as things started to change and evolve, one of the things we do in our business is

39:45SEO and SEO historically is all about page authority.

39:50So if you're a Starbucks, you just Google Starbucks, you're going to get some information

39:54about Starbucks.

39:55And that'll show you there.

39:56If you, if you Google a Starbucks near me, you're going to get three or four local results

39:59plus a map.

40:00Or if you Google Starbucks Frappuccino, the Frappuccino page is going to come up.

40:06So the question in SEO has always been, how do I get my Frappuccino page to show up?

40:11How do I get my Frappuccino page to rank?

40:13That's basically the whole battle of SEO and SEO is basically comes down to three things,

40:19technical SEO.

40:20So how well your website is, how good your website is.

40:22And from a machine perspective content.

40:25So how good your website is from a person, people perspective, and then backlink.

40:30So to other websites like your website.

40:33So that's really kind of, that's all SEO is.

40:34I know people try to like make it in this crazy black box, but that's really as simple

40:38as it is.

40:38When AI has come along, it would change from page authority, trying to get your, your

40:43Frappuccino page to rank to entity authority.

40:46And what that basically means is what is your online footprint look like?

40:52So from a Starbucks perspective, there's all kinds of articles about Starbucks.

40:55There's things in the paper or the, you know, the virtual papers.

40:59There's all kinds of comments on Reddit.

41:02There's all kinds of things of questions that are asked on Quora, all these different independent

41:07third-party resources that gives Starbucks a really good footprint.

41:11And we call that their entity authority.

41:14So in order to get found for, through AI, you need to have good PR.

41:19You need to potentially maybe even have a Wikipedia page.

41:22You need to have the information about your site on different directories to be the same

41:26everywhere.

41:27Because if you move from one office to another, the machines may not know where your actual

41:31office address is, for example.

41:33And you really need to have what's called a knowledge graph.

41:36And a knowledge graph is something where it talks about how your website, what your website

41:41is about, how it relates to other things.

41:44And then think of it as kind of a website on top of your website just for the machines.

41:49So you need to have all these things to really make your website accessible to the machines

41:56and show up in the ChatGPTs of the world.

41:58Because you said things are changing.

42:00Lots of people are just using ChatGPT as their search engine now.

42:03So we have to adapt and that's what we do is we help people adapt, get their businesses

42:09shown on AI in the chat models and, and help them on that side of things.

42:14I'm thinking with this because it's, it's, it's different, it's new and it keeps changing.

42:21For example, I see such a glut of posts on, on social media and I see more and more, uh, obviously

42:32fake information videos.

42:35I mean, it was, I see, we just watched the video last night, uh, because it was entertaining,

42:42but we recognize right away, this is just fake news.

42:46It's just made up and it, and, uh, but we got caught in the trap because of the title,

42:52whatever it was, the title just caught our attention.

42:54And I'm just thinking like, there's such a glut happening and I'm looking at, um, I look,

43:02I look at my future guests.

43:04I look at past guests.

43:05I look at, you know, big marketers in the industry, big podcasters, and I'll see where

43:10they put something up.

43:11Very little, very little views.

43:13I'll see that.

43:14And I'll see where they put something out, which has a zillion, a zillion views.

43:18And I know, well, they paid for advertising, but I see the change happening regardless of

43:25the size of the person's show.

43:26And I'm wondering, uh, what's the future hold for us?

43:31I mean, it's so hard to tell because back in the day when you and I were growing up, companies

43:37had 10, 15, 20 year strategy plans.

43:40Today, things change overnight.

43:42You know, um, I'm not even sure what question to ask Dave.

43:46I just, I just see so many changes happening.

43:49Maybe you're like, oh yeah, let me talk.

43:50Let me kind of frame or reference it this way, you know, cause I'm not sure where we're

43:55going to go.

43:56Do you, what do you think about all this?

43:58Yeah, I agree a hundred percent.

44:00So one way to think about it is truth becomes very, very important.

44:06Truth and your source of truth is super important.

44:09So take a look at your website and that is the one thing you can control.

44:13You can't control what is on Facebook or any of the other, you know, YouTube or media or

44:18anything that else that could potentially be generated, but you can control what's on

44:22your website.

44:23So that should be your source of truth.

44:25Whether you're an individual thought leader, whether, or whether or not you have a business,

44:30your website is still just as important as it always was.

44:33And this isn't an outdated concept.

44:35This is talking about the future and truth because the machines, people lie to the machines

44:39even more than they lie to each other.

44:41So you need to have something where the machines can reference as a, as a source of truth.

44:46So this is the knowledge graph that I was talking about.

44:49So one way to think about it is you build a website that has information for people, all

44:54the marketing fluff, all the information that makes them want to click and, you know, dig

44:58into things.

44:58You need to have another website.

45:00That's a layer over top of that.

45:02That's built for the machines.

45:03That's not as fluff.

45:05That is very factual.

45:07That's very much oriented for the machine so that they can read and understand what your

45:11website is about without having, without having to sift through three paragraphs or a page

45:15to understand, okay, you know, Dave and AOK Marketing, they do GEO or SEO for AI as an

45:21example.

45:22So what you need to do, the reason why I say this is actually super important is you have

45:26a source of truth, but where things are going, I got a glimpse of most recently when Claude

45:33Anthropic is one of the large language models, like a chat GPT, they came out with something

45:38that was called Imagine with Claude.

45:41And what it was, was as you would type, it would actually generate software for you based

45:47on whatever it is you were trying to do.

45:48So if you needed like a, I don't know, a calculator, it would actually build the calculator for you

45:53in software and you could actually click on it and use it as a calculator.

45:57So the reason why this is important is because, not necessarily because of that, but because

46:01what we see, every pixel of what we see online is going to be generated for us.

46:08Right now, Google serves us up results basically based on our preferences, but we still see the

46:14webpage that they reference for us.

46:16Chat GPT or whatever else builds and serves us the information that we ask it to, but

46:23it's generated, a generated prompt result based on whatever we put into it.

46:27So what happens when every pixel, so imagine opening up chat GPT or a browser, you know,

46:32your equivalent of your browser, and it never actually goes to the internet.

46:37It just generates the internet for you.

46:40So say you wanted to book a trip, instead of actually going out to Expedia.com, finding

46:46the trip and bringing it back, it just generates the Expedia.com interface in your chat GPT instance

46:54and says, here's this trip to Morocco, would you like to book?

46:59And then you can, you can just say yes, and it'll book it for you because it has your payment

47:02information and your trip is done and you never visited Expedia.com.

47:06You never went to a hotel website.

47:08You never went to that airplane, you know, the flights.

47:12You never did any of that.

47:12You were all inside the chat GPT interface and you could have that chat GPT interface look

47:18like you're on the Simpsons.

47:20It could be generated to look like you're in the matrix.

47:23It could look like, you know, ancient script, whatever you want it to look like, it will know

47:28your preferences and it will take the information it finds and render it, present it to you in

47:35whatever way you want to see it.

47:37So it's even more important today to make sure that your site is searchable, discoverable,

47:43and the machines know exactly what you have on that site because they're going to take

47:47that site.

47:47Even though you spend all that time on that beautiful website, they're going to take it

47:51and they're just going to take the information.

47:53They're going to present it to other people the way the other people want to see it.

47:56So that's the future that I see not too far off in the distance.

48:00And so we'll see whether or not that actually comes true, but I've got some heavy bets going

48:05that way.

48:06I am going to think about that quite a bit more and look at my website in that regards.

48:12I really, really appreciate that.

48:14That's a very good look at a possible future and it makes good sense.

48:20Once again, this is Dave Burnett with talking about his resilient rise.

48:24We've talked about from being the hockey enforcer to AI-driven entrepreneurial leadership.

48:31And you can find him at aokmarketing.com.

48:36Very, very, very thought-provoking.

48:41Very, very deep here.

48:43I'm really, because this is our future and what's going on.

48:46We didn't expect some of the things that have happened and things are going to change even

48:50faster.

48:51So I'm definitely going to look into that.

48:52And Dave, I just want to thank you so much for coming on and talking to us about that

48:57and getting us stimulated on this and what is going to happen to our future, because it's

49:05not going to be the same tomorrow.

49:06It's just not going to be the same.

49:07Things are going to change.

49:09So I like that.

49:10It was very good.

49:11Thank you so much, sir.

49:12Well, thank you so much for having me.

49:13I really appreciate it.

49:15And yeah, I'm grateful that you had me on the show.

49:17And hopefully some people that listen to this got a little bit out of it.

49:20But the only other thing I can say is everybody needs to play around with AI.

49:26Whatever your comfort level is, you heard about some toys.

49:29There's some different things out there.

49:30When I say toys, I mean different AI programs and things.

49:34There's great websites out there that you can test things.

49:37And if you're looking to play, just spend some time and play.

49:42That'll really help you out.

49:43I mean, we actually built something called Limtel, L-L-M-T-E-L.com, where you can actually

49:48find your own AI visibility as a person or as a company.

49:54So those are some of the ways that we're adapting to it.

49:56But I love to see the way different people take this potential future and adapt for themselves.

50:01So thank you so much for having me on.

50:03Dave, are we going to find your link to that AI site?

50:09Is that through AOKMarketing.com?

50:11We'll be able to kind of get a glimpse on that?

50:13No, it's actually a different site.

50:15So you just go to L-L-M-T-E-L.com and it's its own site.

50:21And you can sign up there for free and run through reports and get insights as to what

50:27is going on and how your competitors are doing and how you're doing with AI.

50:30Because the other thing is when you actually search for yourself on AI, you've actually

50:35done some training for your particular model that you're using.

50:38If you use ChatGPT, it knows you.

50:41It knows what you want to see.

50:42So it'll give you slightly different answers than it would give me or would give you, Tony,

50:47you know, as opposed to the people listening.

50:49So having an independent third party that's connected into the API, which is what we do,

50:54to make sure that we get as unbiased information as possible to see what the actual machines,

51:00what they actually know is very important at this stage.

51:04Oh, thank you.

51:04You dropped a bombshell.

51:06I'm going to go check that out.

51:08Dave, thank you once again.

51:09I sincerely appreciate it.

51:12Bye-bye.

51:14Wow, that was amazing.

51:15So much good advice.

51:17I'm definitely going to check out that site.

51:19What do you think, guys?

51:20Was that good?

51:21Great, great conversation with Dave.

51:24Okay, do us a favor.

51:25If you like this, share this with your friends.

51:27Tell them about Dave.

51:28Tell them about AI.

51:29Tell them about this.

51:31LLMTEL.com.

51:33If I have that right, I'm going to listen to this again.

51:35Make sure I have that written down right.

51:37Just amazing what he's been through.

51:40This just shows that no matter what has happened, you can still push through and persevere

51:46and become extremely successful.

51:48It's just the difference between wanting to do it and not.

51:51And yes, there's hard work.

51:53And yes, there's a lot of things.

51:54So I may make it sound simple, but it can be done.

51:59So please, I recommend checking this out again, going through this.

52:03And wherever you're getting this, guys, please follow the show.

52:07It helps to bring more amazing guests to you.

52:09It's totally free.

52:10And it helps us grow.

52:13All right.

52:14Let's use this and let's help you move on your journey to success.

52:18Thanks.

52:18Remember, just take action.

52:21Success awaits those who persevere and remain steadfast despite the odds.

52:26We talked a lot about that today.

52:28Sow good seeds.

52:30Do good deeds.

52:31And I'll see you on the next episode.

52:33I'll see you on the next episode.

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