What Still Works in Wealth Building

tony_durso

Most people follow the financial path they’re handed because it’s familiar, not because it’s been tested over time. - Save more. Stay invested. Wait long enough and hope it works out. - But as Robert G. Allen has seen firsthand over decades of building and teaching wealth, financial systems change — and advice that once worked doesn’t always hold up forever. In this conversation, we step back and look at what actually endures when markets rise and fall, tax rules shift, and entire financial eras come and go.  What You’ll Learn  • Why Wall Street retirement models fail many entrepreneurs  • The difference between equity wealth and true cash-flow security  • How taxes can be planned for legally — not just endured • Why inflation doesn’t have to be your enemy  • The mindset shift required to build lasting financial freedom  About Robert G. Allen  Robert G. Allen is a bestselling author and investor whose books on real estate and wealth-building have sold millions of copies worldwide. Known for challenging conventional financial wisdom, Robert focuses on cash-flow strategies, tax efficiency, and building long-term independence outside traditional market-driven models.  Sponsors & Partners  • Notion is an AI-powered, connected workspace that brings all your notes, docs, and projects into one place. Repetitive workflows like status updates, task routing, and internal Q&A can run automatically — right inside Notion, where your team already works. Try Custom Agents now at notion.com/tony.  • Shopify powers millions of businesses worldwide and offers everything you need to build, run, and grow an online store — from design and marketing to payments and checkout. Start your one-dollar-per-month trial at shopify.com/tony.  • For sponsorship opportunities, email ad-sales@libsyn.com.  Resources & Links Mentioned 🔗 Connect with Robert G. Allen retirein10years.com/book 🎙️ Listen to the Episode (audio/video) https://tonydurso.com/podcast/ 🎵 Explore Tony’s Music tonydurso.com/music 📧 Get the Newsletter tonydurso.com/news  Tony’s Closing Words Use this and let’s help you Move on YOUR Journey to Success! Just Take Action. – Success awaits those who persevere and remain steadfast despite the odds. Sow good seeds, do good deeds and join me on the next episode.  retire tax free, cash flow investing, financial freedom for entrepreneurs, alternative retirement strategies, Wall Street retirement myths, wealth outside the stock market, passive income strategies, inflation and investing, tax efficient wealth building, real estate cash flow, entrepreneur retirement planning, financial independence mindset, wealth preservation strategies, long-term cash flow assets, exit Wall Street investing

Transcript

00:00Well, my guest today has spent decades challenging that system. Robert G. Allen is legendary in

00:07wealth building. He's a multi-million copy bestselling author. It makes your long-term

00:13results dramatically lower than what you've been taught. And they taught about how compound interest

00:19is so powerful.

00:30Welcome back to the podcast. Now, today's entrepreneurs face a, let's call it a quiet

00:37anxiety that rarely gets discussed openly. Now, you know, you can build a business, you can generate

00:44income, even accumulate savings, yet still wonder if the traditional retirement system is actually

00:52designed to work for you or against you. Well, my guest today has spent decades challenging that

00:59system. Robert G. Allen is legendary in wealth building. He's a million, multi-million copy

01:06bestselling author whose real estate and financial books have shaped generations of investors. No

01:12doubt you've heard of him or actually read his books or not more or no more about him. But what

01:19makes

01:19today's conversation especially relevant is that Robert isn't here to repeat old formulas. No, he's

01:27here to explain why most retirement advice taught through Wall Street is fundamentally flawed and

01:34why entrepreneurs, business donors, and independent thinkers just like you, we need a different model

01:40entirely. We're going to explore a few things here like how cashflow wealth replaces equity speculation.

01:48We're going to talk about how taxes can legally be minimized, why inflation can actually work in your

01:54favor, favor, many things. And we're all going to go over what Rob, uh, Robert would rewrite today from

02:02his own famous books after decades of real world experience. A little bit of everything, huh? Now,

02:08if you've ever wondered whether the traditional path to retirement really fits the entrepreneurial life,

02:15well, this conversation may change how you think about money, time, and freedom. Let's dive in.

02:21Let's go bring them in here. Hi, Alan. Hi, Rob. Well, excuse me. Robert G. Alan, you're, you're a famous,

02:28you're, you're well known, but you also have that Alan for the second, for the second name. So.

02:34Second name, exactly. Hey, well, Tony, it's so pleasure. It's, it's a pleasure for me to be here with you

02:41and

02:41to maybe dispel some myths and some mistakes and some lies that we've been told about retirement.

02:49That's what my, my job is today. Ah, yes. I'm looking forward to learning about real wealth

02:55reset as mentioned. And I'm curious if you, some, some of the listeners may not have heard of you or,

03:02or would like to know more. So maybe you could give us a little bit of how did it start

03:06and where,

03:06what made you question the traditional financial system, you know, kind of give us some of the

03:11backstory. Well, my traditional MBA, uh, was, uh, hard for me to get. I got my MBA, but then I

03:21applied

03:21to 30 major corporations and none of them said yes to me. And, uh, therefore I, I made a decision

03:27not

03:28to pursue the traditional, let's go get a job and retire when I'm 65. I, I really started with no

03:36money.

03:36Uh, my dad had given me a thousand bucks for retirement, one for my graduation present present.

03:42Um, I didn't have any credit. I didn't have a job, but I went and bought my first piece of

03:47real

03:48estate with that thousand dollars. Then I wrote the book, nothing down, how to buy real estate with

03:52little or no money down and became a huge number one New York times bestseller because most people

03:58have an American dream and they want to, they want to get a home. They want to live in their

04:04own home,

04:04but they don't have the cash, the down payment, the five, even 10 or 15%. They don't have enough

04:10income. They got to a, they go to a bank and the banker says, you don't qualify. So I was

04:16famous for

04:16doing this crazy challenge. I said, send me to any city, take away my wallet, give me a hundred dollar

04:22bill. And in 72 hours, I'll buy an excellent piece of real estate using none of my own money,

04:27using the techniques in that book. I just told you about. And the LA times saw,

04:31saw my ad in their newspaper and they, they called me and challenged me. And they said,

04:36we don't think you can do that. We're going to put a reporter with you. We're going to fly you

04:40to the

04:40city. We choose. We're going to take away your wallet. Give you a hundred dollars. And if you

04:45haven't bought a property in 72 hours, we're going to make look, you look like a fool in front of

04:50the

04:50world. And I flew with LA times reporter, they picked San Francisco and I bought seven properties

04:56in 57 hours and gave the reporter $20 back in change. And therefore the front page of financial

05:03section of LA times read boastful investor accepts times challenge and wins. So that kind of put me on

05:09the map and, and I've been teaching people ever since multiple streams of income is another one of

05:15my famous books, how to generate a lifetime of unlimited wealth. That was followed by a book with

05:21Mark Victor Hanson, the one minute millionaire, uh, uh, and, and another book that was called

05:27creating wealth. And this one that we're going to talk a little bit about today. Um, because,

05:32um, my message has been for my entire life has been how do ordinary people fix the money problem?

05:40And most people will fit 49% of people when they reach their retirement age, don't have enough money

05:47to retire or literally on, uh, on, you know, on fumes when it comes to that point. So what are

05:54the 51%

05:54do? Well, 81% of the people that they'll have less than $250,000 to retire on. And only 10%,

06:0599% actually will have 500,000 or more. And frankly, you can't retire on 500,000 because if you

06:12retire at

06:1365, you're going to live another 30 years, you know, and if you're, uh, if your economy, if your

06:19wall street fortune is at 500,000 in the stock market, what are you going to do? And so, uh,

06:25we're going to talk about today about why the, the system, the retirement system is broken and how we

06:32fix it. Robert, I am at the edge of my chair, but there's, there's one thing that where the, uh,

06:39the penny hasn't dropped. I would see my diplomas somewhere here. I think it's out at the camera

06:45view. Uh, I've been through that. You don't learn this stuff there. So you did your MBA. I got that,

06:50but somewhere you learned some working on the streets. I mean, I remember that the famous, uh,

06:58story, uh, the challenge, the a hundred dollars. Yeah. I remember all that. I'm like, where did you

07:02learn this stuff? Where did you get this street smarts? How did it, how did that part happen?

07:06Well, the, the first part happened because I knew I needed to invest in real estate. My intuition was

07:12telling me at that time, it's, it's time to buy real estate now. And, and I, nobody would hire me.

07:19I had 30 rejection letters in my, my most famous book that I've only have one copy of is this

07:26book

07:26right here of all those 30 rejection letters, you know, from, from general foods and from Nestle and

07:33from, you know, I got these 30 rejection letters in here because I said to myself, as I looked at

07:38these letters on my bed, when I was 30, you know, just graduated from MBA and I, and I got

07:45mad. I said,

07:46who are these 30 people who signed this rejection letter to me? One day I will earn more money than

07:53all 30 of these people combined. And yes, I did do that, but I had to take a risk. And

08:00that means

08:00I quit my career before I even started, I went right into real estate. And since I only had a

08:06thousand dollars, I went to a millionaire who was very successful in my church group. And, and I said

08:13to him, Paul, you're a millionaire. I want to be like you. Tell me how to think like you, you

08:17know?

08:18And, and that's been a, a, a model ever since. Whenever I want to do something new,

08:24I always find whoever's the best at it and the best are always free because they may have a fee

08:30and it may be really expensive to us. But frankly, when the best work with you, they give you the

08:37shortcuts and therefore ultimately the fee is, is minuscule. For example, Jay Abraham is a great

08:44marketing expert. Is it probably the best marketing expert in the world. And I went to him when I

08:50didn't have any money. I, I, he wanted 25 grand. I gave him 25 grand and I've turned that 25

08:56grand

08:56into $250 million. So you just go to the best, frankly, and you, you pick their brain and you do

09:04what they tell you to do and you do, you do better. It's astounding. Absolutely. And as I'm thinking

09:11with this, one of the things you've said is that the, the, the wall street, let's, let's just hit

09:15it head on the wall street retirement models. People are being misled on that. And you talk about

09:22something fundamentally wrong with the traditional equity based retirement approach. I'm all ears.

09:29What, what have you learned about that? Well, Warren Buffett will tell you, of course, he,

09:34he's a direct investor in the marketplace. He's full, fully in, but he'll tell you that the

09:40ordinary person shouldn't do the way he does it. He says, don't, don't do the way Warren Buffett

09:45does it. You just buy an S&P 500 and the 500 of all the biggest stocks in the world.

09:51And you put

09:52your money into it on a regular basis and you just watch that grow. And it's going to grow it

09:56at what,

09:57nine, 10% over 15, 20, 30 years. It'll have short-term higher rates return. And it'll,

10:05sometimes it'll be lower, but on average, it'll be about 10%. But what they don't tell you is,

10:11is they'll brag about it's 10%, but the average investor doesn't get that 10%. They've got fees

10:17they've got to pay and, and they've got some, some hidden costs that most people don't realize. And

10:22it's actually about half that. And so when you take your rate of return, multiply out for 30 years

10:30and you invest, you know, 10% of your money on, on your salary, and it's going to grow to

10:36maybe two

10:36or $3 million. It's possible. But then you got inflation. So it's not worth 3 million by the time

10:43you get there. And then you got taxes because most people defer their taxes and they defer their taxes

10:49at the exact wrong time because they've been told that they're going to be, they're going to have less

10:53money when they retire. Is that the way you really want to retire? I don't want to retire with less

10:59money. I want to retire with more money. You know, I want to have a higher, higher tax rate. And

11:04so

11:05they, they end up at the time where their taxes have to be paid out of the money that they're

11:09pulling

11:09out of their savings accounts and out of their, out of their retirement account. And what the real

11:16mistake that they make and is they go for equity and not cashflow. And this is a strange concept

11:26because everybody talks about equity. And that means I want to be a millionaire, even me.

11:32What, what are my books? You know, the one minute millionaire. Uh, one of my dreams originally

11:38was for me to be a millionaire. And it took me about four years to become a millionaire because

11:44that's what I was aiming for. I was aiming for equity. But frankly, the real secret to wealth is,

11:50is cashflow. And if you have cashflow that you build over, over time, then you, you can retire

11:57much earlier than if you're going for equity. And now the, the real problem with the markets

12:04is because our advisors, and there are a few companies that don't do this, but the vast majority

12:11of the advisors, they make money on your, on, on, on your investment into their, their, their funds

12:19because they make money, whether you make money or not. If you lose money, they still take a percentage

12:25of the money that you lost. And therefore they win, whether you, whether or not you win or lose.

12:33And therefore their, their entire message to you is just keep putting money in the market,

12:39keep putting it in, just building our, we want to build our, our, uh, our portfolio for you.

12:45Well, it's their portfolio too. And the more they manage, they make money on their management of a

12:51billion dollars and they get one quarter of a percent or a half a percent, something like that.

12:56It seems like a small, a small money, but when you deduct that from right off the top of the

13:01money

13:01you put into it, it makes your long-term results dramatically lower than what you've been taught.

13:07And they, they taught about how compound interest is so powerful that is, what was it, uh, Einstein

13:13said it's the most powerful, you know, equation in the world. I don't know if you really said that,

13:19but compound interest, I've been preaching upon compound interest forever. And compound interest

13:25is all about equity. It's about the ultimate growth, having a million, two million, five million,

13:30whatever. And that's not the, the, the metric that you need to be looking at. You need to be looking

13:35at how do I generate cashflow. And if you can't figure that out now, and your advisors are not

13:41telling you that they're not teaching. They want you to stay in the market as long as you can. And,

13:47and if you retire at 65, who said that you should retire at 65, who made that number up? I

13:55don't want

13:55to retire at 65. I want to retire at 55. I want to retire at 45. I want to retire

14:01as soon as my cashflow

14:03can fund my, my, what we call the strike number. And what is the strike number? A strike number is

14:11the amount of money you need to earn to live a basic modern life. And this is where we go

14:17wrong

14:17when it comes to, to teaching people how to make big money. Even I'm going to, I'm going to take

14:22blame

14:22for this too, because I've always talked about, you know, having a big car and a fancy house. And I,

14:28we, we, we did have a huge home in California too, a 10,000 square feet, multi-multi-million dollar

14:34home. If I were to rewind my life, I would rewind it to a much more modest home. I would

14:42live first,

14:42not to get the equity. I don't want to be a millionaire. I want to have enough cashflow to

14:48reach my strike number. And that number is a number that lives a basic modest lifetime in a,

14:55in a, in a modest home. And that's the opposite of what rich people are doing. They're, they've, they've

15:02got, they're so rich, it doesn't matter. For ordinary people, you need to be aiming for, for, for, for

15:09financial freedom first. That's the first goal, not to be a millionaire, but to have enough cashflow

15:16for you to be able to live without having to work. And that is going to be a five to

15:2210 year

15:23process. And if you, and that's why I talk about in my book, you know, the, the, the retire in

15:2910

15:29years or less, that's a 10 year process. That's how you generate not only the cashflow. Uh, and I'll,

15:37we'll talk about the investments to do that in a second, but we talk about how to do that without

15:42taxes. And this is the, the thing that nobody talks about. Why does Jeff Bezos spend in terms

15:51of a percentage less than his secretary? I'm going to go into that. I want to go cover that

15:56in just one moment, but first we are speaking with Robert G. Allen. We're talking about real

16:01wealth reset. It's a, he's discussing a new path to financial freedom, not trying to sell you

16:07anything here. Just, you can feel his passion. You can feel it is like all over. This is the real

16:15stuff. Robert, where can we find out more? What website do we go to to find out more about you

16:21and what we're going over right now? Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. Uh, it's just retire

16:28in 10 years.com forward slash book. Retire in 10 years.com. Retire in 10 years.com slash book.

16:41Now that will take you to, uh, a, a site where that book is available. Uh, I think it's 1997.

16:50Um,

16:51fully guaranteed. I want you to win, but there's a lot of bonuses that come with that. A lot of,

16:55a lot of videos that come with it as well, probably thousand dollars worth of extra bonuses.

17:00Um, but anyway, um, this is, this is the best book I've ever been involved in. And I've read book,

17:07I've written books of you, I've shared with you that have sold millions and millions of copies

17:12all over the world. They've been translated into Russia and Chinese and Japanese and Italian and

17:18French and all over the world. And I've traveled to those countries and talked about creating wealth,

17:22but this book is what I would want my grandchildren to read this book, retire in 10 years.com forward

17:31slash book. This is the book they need to read. Why? Because some of the things I said in this

17:37book,

17:38creating wealth or, uh, uh, this book, multiple streams of income, some of those things I would

17:44not do these days. I would do totally differently. And so anyway, I, you tell me, I'm not sure if

17:51we

17:51have a sponsors or anything you need to have break in here. I'm thinking with this and I've got

17:57questions. And one of the things that, that comes to my mind and I am, I am, you know, I

18:03haven't

18:04written a book on wealth and, and what have you, but one of the first things that comes to mind

18:09is

18:10there's two schools. One is pay off all your debts, have no debt, which makes great sense.

18:17And you don't see that talked about enough. And the other school, which the pundits say

18:24max yourself out and get that cashflow up. And, and to me, that's a little scary, a little dangerous

18:30because let's just make up a number, make up any number you want. I've got, you know, $5 million

18:36in assets and I've borrowed against them and I'm getting cashflow. But if something happens in the

18:41market, which it's had that a domino effects, and then all of a sudden you're out, you know,

18:47you, you're really on there, you know, you know where I'm going, what I'm saying. And that's a

18:50very scary thing. Obviously that's not what you're saying, but that's what comes to mind is there's a

18:55fear on that.

18:59There's a fear. Um, even when you put your money in the market and 70% of Americans have their

19:06money

19:07and their retirement tied to wall street, 70%. Now there are some of us who are entrepreneurs who

19:14have different ways of investing. I'm going to recommend that you sell all of your stock market,

19:21all of it, sell it all. And that you pay off the penalty that you have and that you do

19:28something

19:28crazy. And that is you invest your properties into, into single family homes that are managed

19:40by a turnkey provider. Now, what does that mean? Here's the mistake that most people make when it

19:47comes to real estate. This is why it's so scary to people. Because first of all, when you read one

19:52of

19:52my books, go buy real estate. Even if you've got nothing down, it at least gets you in the game,

19:57right? But I teach you how you find the deals, how you fix them up, how you manage them yourself.

20:05And you only should buy within a 50 mile radius for your own house. This is what I preached

20:10for almost 40 years, 45 years. My grandchildren, I'm going to tell them to do just almost throw all

20:19of that out the window. And I'm going to tell them not to buy a property wholesale, which is for

20:2640 years I've been saying, never buy, pay retail for real estate. Never pay retail for real estate.

20:32You want to buy it with as much of creative financing as you can, borrow as much as you can,

20:38go all in, be 100% leveraged. And at this point, I'm going to tell my grandchildren, no, you do

20:45not do

20:46that. Now, if you have, if you can't do it because you can't save enough money for a down payment,

20:51even if you have a 5% down payment, if you live in the home first, and then eventually you're

20:57going

20:57to rent that home out. And eventually you're going to have two. And in my book, Creating Wealth,

21:03the formula I've taught, and this has been modeled by Robert Kiyosaki and many, many others. I say,

21:12buy two houses a year for 10 years and then retire. And that's the simple model.

21:18But my co-author on this book right here, Ryan Lee, he read Creating Wealth and he did what I

21:28challenged him to do, which is for him to buy the property, for him to fix it up, for him

21:32to manage

21:32it while he had a job. And he was working full-time at a job. And 90%, well, let's see,

21:41what percent?

21:41Actually, it's 80% of people in this country are employees. They're employee-minded. They got

21:48security-mindedness. He was an employee. He was making good money, but he was killing himself

21:54with these real estate investments. He was absolutely destroying himself because he was

22:00trying to do the best job he can and on the side do this. And he fixed it. The way

22:06he fixed it,

22:07he says, Robert, I'm going to go against what you taught. I'm going to find somebody who fixes

22:12it up for me. I'm going to let them make the profit from the fixing it up, and they're going

22:16to sell it to me at retail. And I'm going to put 20% down because he says, I've got

22:21the money

22:22to put the 20% down, and I'm going to buy it where it makes sense. And what I've been

22:29teaching

22:29for 45 years is you never buy property outside of a 50-mile radius. And yet, where you live in

22:36Los

22:36Angeles, you live in San Francisco, you live in New York City, even 50-mile radius outside those

22:42properties, those cities, you can't rent it. You can't rent it for positive cash flow. But you can

22:47in Kansas City, and you can in Ohio, and you can in the middle parts of the United States.

22:53You can even buy a modest home in Northern California, believe it or not. But how do you

23:01rent them? See, that's just the problem. And I live in Utah now, so if I were to buy something

23:07in Ohio, that's 2,000 miles away. And how do I manage it? Because one bad thing goes wrong,

23:14and I am screwed, if I excuse the language. And therefore, what Ryan did is he sets it up so

23:21he

23:21finds the turnkey providers. These are people who, that's what their livelihood is, finding the deals.

23:27And they're hard to find. Finding the deals, fixing them up, and making a profit immediately

23:33from the selling of that property, getting it refinanced from somebody who can afford to refinance

23:39it. They put the 20% down, and they get cash flow. They get cash flow immediately. Now, what's

23:46powerful about the cash flow is, okay, so it's $200, $300 a month. It's not going to make you rich.

23:52Um, but what it does is something that the market doesn't do. It protects you in taxes. It gives you

24:02tax, tax, uh, uh, savings, tax, um, protection and inflation because inflation is going to be with us

24:12forever. And it's going to, it's going to connect. It's going to affect everything you do. And therefore,

24:20you want an asset that is inflation, inflation protected, and the rents will continue to increase

24:27over 10, 20 years. They continue to increase over time because people just get used to paying

24:34higher and higher, uh, uh, you know, amounts. And therefore, this asset that is professionally

24:40managed, you might've paid retail for it. So you paid $250 for it and you get $250 in positive cash

24:48flow now, but five years from now, what, what will it be worth? Well, if it's just a 5%

24:54rate of return,

24:55it's, it's, it's gone up a little bit. It's, it's increased your rate of return. But frankly,

25:00what is your rate of return when you add those cash flow, tax advantages, equity buildup, because

25:08you're paying down the loan every month and the appreciation from your properties, you're making

25:1420 plus percent on your money every single year. And I can get, I challenge you to find any stock

25:21market investment that'll give you a guaranteed long-term rate of return without having a massive

25:27collapse. Now you brought up a good point. What happens if there is a collapse? What happens? Well,

25:34I'll tell you the stock market is going to go to hell as well as, uh, what will real estate

25:39go to

25:40hell? That's a good question. Well, it did in 2008. Why? Because there was too much of it. There was

25:47too

25:47much supply and the demand, what happened to the demand? Well, the demand went to zero because when,

25:54when everything went to heck for, for all the banks, everybody pulls their, their, their, their money in

26:01and they, they, they, they're trying to dump their real estate. And you know what they were doing

26:04wrong? People had positive cashflow from these properties that not all of them, but many of them

26:11were speculative and they were negative cashflow and they were the worst investments. But you know,

26:1820% of those properties were owned by owners who had cashflow from those properties. They had

26:24renters in those properties. And yes, the values, the equity dropped dramatically. There's no doubt about

26:30it, but the cash flows were still there. And if they had just hung on for another year or two

26:36or

26:36three, the, the equities, they rebounded big time and the cash flows would have continued to increase.

26:43And now if they'd done that in 2010, that was 15 years later, they'd be multi, multi millionaires

26:49today, but they got scared out. And so you never buy a property with a negative cashflow. Just never

26:55because yeah, there could be challenges, but people always need a place to live. And therefore you

27:02never buy a, a, an expensive home. You never buy a property in the higher events. You're always buying

27:09a mid priced home in the median price range. And you're going to buy them where you get positive

27:15cashflow. Now, what happens if you don't have the 20% down? Because how many people here on this call

27:22don't have the 20% down to buy an investment property? Cause that's what it's going to take.

27:29Well, in, in this book, retire in 10 years, there are three gears that are linked together

27:36that really make the whole passive income machine. That's what the subtitle of this book is the

27:41passive income machine. And what, what I, what we teach here is number one, passive income machine

27:47is number one, you have to change your mindset and you cannot be a wall street person.

27:52You have to get your money out of there as soon as possible. And you have to get it into

27:56an

27:56inflation protected tax, uh, advantaged, uh, cash flowing piece of real estate as soon as you

28:04possibly can. And obviously that's one step. The next step is I want to put my money in a place

28:11where it's protected. And most people put it in a bank account and they got it in a savings account.

28:17Well, what's the problem with the savings account? It's taxed in the last place you want your money

28:25is a place where it's taxed. So you put it into literally a cash, uh, a cash, uh, insurance policy,

28:32a cash value insurance policy. And you get what we call a vault where you put, you put your savings

28:39there where it's cash. It's, it's protected from taxes and it grows twice as much. And then you

28:45pull it right out. And that's where you buy your real estate. And so you save your money in the

28:50vault

28:50first, and then you save it up until you have enough money to buy one. If you've cashed out of

28:56the stock market and you have enough money to buy a two or three or four, you buy two or

28:59three or four.

29:00But if you don't have any money at all, you got to be a saver. And, and, um, Robert, could

29:05you explain,

29:06could you explain a little bit more, give a little more detail on the vault?

29:11Um, you, you know, so many rich people, even, even Biden, uh, a lot of very, very famous rich people.

29:21They, they put their money where the, the banks put their money and you, where the banks put their

29:25money in cash value life insurance. And you've never heard of this before. Well, unless you've

29:31been in the markets or you've been a smarter investor, but you know, people like, um, uh,

29:38the coach of the San Diego, what's the, what's his name? The San Diego, the football team. Um,

29:45a lot of these people, very, very famous people will put their money in cash value. Why do they put

29:50there? Because they can, they, they get insurance. Number one, and you, we all should have insurance,

29:56but they get to pull their money out of a tax advantaged place and they get to invest it in

30:02other things. Now, most of us, when we want to borrow money, like my home, paid for home here,

30:09I'm living in today. If I want to get a, a, a line of credit, you know, how hard it

30:13is to get a line

30:14of credit. I got to qualify. I got to show my credit. I got to do all things to, to

30:20somebody

30:21who earns much less money than I do. And they're going to tell me whether I qualify to put a

30:26loan

30:26on my free and clear house. And, and, uh, when, when you put your money into insurance policy like

30:31this, you don't have to qualify at all because you, you get cash value as you build your insurance

30:37in there and you can borrow it out with no qualifications whatsoever, no application at

30:45all. You just say, I want my money, please. And you pull it out immediately. So we call this a

30:51vault

30:51because it's a very special way to, to house your money. And it's a, it's a fantastic. And before I

31:00heard of the vault, when Ryan told me, you know what I told him, I said, you're crazy. Realist or,

31:06you know, invest or, uh, insurance is the worst investment you can do. You need to buy term

31:13insurance and then invest the difference, which most people never do. They just buy the term

31:19insurance until they're too old to afford it. And, and it's just a, it's a, it's a mistake.

31:25If I would re revise my life and go back to my grandchildren, I'm going to tell them to do

31:29a radically different thing with the way they do in their insurance. Now, the final piece to it is,

31:35is that the, the, um, um, the, the investment of the property in the right kind of real estate

31:42with the right kind of person, because, because most of us, the 70, 80% of us that work, we

31:50don't

31:50have time to do this. We're giving our whole hearts to our jobs. And a lot of us don't love

31:55our jobs and we, we don't want to leave it. We, we want to stay, we want to get the

31:59income

32:00and we like the income and it gives us good, but 10 to 20% of that money should go

32:05right

32:05into a vault. And until you get the first amount of money for the 20% down, and then

32:10you get, you get that money out of your vault ASAP, you borrow it out. Frankly, you, how can

32:17you do that? Well, you get, you get a rate of return while you're in the vault. It's usually

32:22four or 5% and it's tax-free. And then you put it in a place where you can make

32:2720% of

32:28your money. So it's, it's really fun.

32:31Rob, is that another term for annuities? It used to be life insurance annuities years

32:35back. Is that, is that just another, another name for vault?

32:38We don't do annuities. No, you don't do annuities. No, it's actual whole life insurance. And it's,

32:44that's very rare to find that only 3% of the insurance companies have the kind of policies

32:50that we're talking about where they want you to borrow the money back out. They're happy for you

32:55to do it. Most other companies, you know, 97% of them, if you show up and say, well, do

33:01this for me,

33:01they won't do it. And so you have to know what kind of company to choose. But I want to

33:06answer the one

33:07question about the tax-free part, because we don't want to miss that. Why does Jeff Bezos pay less

33:12taxes? The story is, I don't know if it's true, but they say he's, he and Warren Buffett pay less

33:19money

33:19than their secretaries. Why is that? Because Buffett does what smart people do. He borrows

33:28against his stock. And when he borrows against his stock, and he's, of course, he has billions of

33:36dollars worth of, well, hundreds of millions of dollars worth of stock. When he borrows against

33:40the stock, what is the tax consequence of that? When you borrow money from your credit card,

33:47does the government want you to pay money on the money you borrowed from your credit card?

33:52No, the government doesn't even ask you how much you borrowed on your credit card.

33:56The government doesn't even ask Jeff Bezos how much he borrows from his credit card, from his,

34:03from his assets. Now, one of the assets that you're going to build is the, this is the vault.

34:09The vault has assets in them. Now, what happens if you die and you have $400,000 that's borrowed

34:18against your vault? And it's in, it's in, it's, it's to buy real estate that you own in different

34:25parts of the United States. What happens to that $400,000 borrowing that you've been paying with the

34:32cash flow from your real estate? The, obviously the loan gets paid off by the insurance. So your

34:39family ends up with free and clear real estate. And, and the $400,000 gets paid off by the cash

34:47flow

34:47from your real estate. Eventually, eventually you, you, you borrow, this is what's happened in 10 years

34:52from now. Your equity will have grown. You'll have grown and grown and grown. You want to pull out

34:58$150,000 for you to live on that year? You just refinance one of your properties

35:07and you refinance by, by using the vault. And therefore you end up with cash free cash, tax free

35:16money. And what this talks about is that the subtitle is unlock your, the passive income machine and

35:22secure tax free income for life. Now this book is so detailed. It tells you exactly what the equity

35:29would be, how it grow, what are the rates of return? What are the projections would you have?

35:34And how much would you be able to retire on 10 years from now in cash flow? And of course

35:40you have

35:41equity that's constantly growing and that equity now becomes a way for you to retire without paying taxes.

35:49Robert, one more time there on how does that work or, uh, or, um, how does that fit with inflation?

35:57You've mentioned it, but bring it, let's, let's go into that again. We don't know what's going to,

36:01the inflation is going to be the vault. We understand it can be 5% plus or minus. It seems

36:08to be a step.

36:09Yeah. It's about four or five. Yeah, exactly. What about inflation? We don't know what's going to happen

36:13next year. We don't know what new war is going to happen, what tariffs, we don't know anything. And

36:17that all can change the whole mindset in the whole country. Yeah. So we are not like 2008,

36:25where we had builders were building everything in the world because they could qualify anybody to buy

36:31them. And the supply of real estate was massive. And therefore when the demand went to zero, we had

36:40all of this real estate that, that, that dropped 50, sometimes 75% in value because nobody would buy

36:47it. It's all about supply and demand. Now, what is the supply today? We are 5 million homes short today.

36:55And that's why even in slowly, you know, even kind of sluggish times as the interest rates have gone up

37:01to fight inflation, real estate in the right areas, they're still increasing in value.

37:08But remember, we're talking about a 10 year timeframe here. And so, yeah, there'll be some

37:13years when it'll be 2%. We'll be minus 2%, frankly. And there'll be years when it'll be 15%.

37:21But over, over a 10 year period of time, it's, it's going to generate roughly, um,

37:29seven, eight, 10% tax tax, tax advantaged. But when I borrow against it, the way I borrow,

37:36when I'm borrowing it, it ends up being tax free money. Now, if you have, if you didn't have to

37:42pay

37:42taxes, just think about that for a minute. What is your strike number? Suppose you're making 150,000 a

37:48year, and you're paying 30,000, 40,000 bucks to the IRS. And, and you got money to go to

37:55work,

37:55it costs you money, you drive your car, and you got work related expenses. Well, what if you're not

38:00working? And what if your tax bill is not 30,000, 40,000, but was, you know, that much less,

38:09and your,

38:09your expenses were less, and you were living in a modest home, not the, not the home on the golf

38:14course? You know, your, your, your strike number would be five, six, $7,000 a month. Now, how many

38:22houses would it take for you to generate that kind of revenue? It'd be 15, you know, 15,

38:3018 houses. It's, it's enough you could count on both fingers. And that's within a 10 year period of

38:35time. And those are continuing to grow in value. So you just refinance them every four or five years.

38:42And the bottom line is, what happens if inflation goes to zero? Do you in your right mind think that

38:49would happen? If that, if that does happen, um, inflation is certainly dropped from where it was

38:58during COVID time. There's no doubt about that. The two or 3% of inflation, which you think everybody

39:04thinks is normal is devastating, is terrible. It's horrible. And you got to do something to get

39:12rid of it because the number that the government projects and tells you it's two or 3%, you know,

39:18it's a lot higher than that. There are things they're not even including in that, in that, uh,

39:23the CPI. And we all know what it's like, because we go to the grocery store

39:28and we know what's happened and we know what's happening right now. So I don't think it's going

39:34to go away. Um, I really don't, but even if it does, I still have cash flows from my real

39:40estate.

39:41Robert, the one thing I'm thinking of that on this is many, I should, I shouldn't say many,

39:47I don't know. There are entrepreneurs, business people, they put all their income back into their

39:52business. They're, you're not in the street particularly or very minor, very, very small.

39:59So they're, they're thinking, well, Tony, Robert and Robert, this is, doesn't really apply to me

40:03because I'm just taking, you know, so much and putting it back into business or doing other things.

40:09So is there a point, uh, uh, where it makes sense or should there be a certain amount that we

40:16put

40:16towards this to, to start growing that? Because we're, we're entrepreneurs here. We're very focused

40:22I'm not, I've got this business and this model and these products, and I'm really going down this

40:27way. I'm not really thinking of retiring or having a second or alternate or a secondary lifestyle going,

40:36but it's something we should look at and do. That's, that's why they should read multiple

40:40streams of income because you can't have one stream of income, period. End of story. And if you have

40:44one stream of income and you're pouring all that money that you're profiting back into your business

40:48to grow it, um, not smart, period. You should, you should have that. Let me tell you the first

40:54thing I would have changed about my life. Frankly, we had a great life. We lived in the biggest houses

41:00and we had the most amazing trips all over the world. And I have lots of memories from that,

41:05but there's one thing I didn't do. I didn't save 10 to 10, 20% of my revenue, no matter

41:11what.

41:12I didn't do that. Um, I, I do it now, obviously, and I've done it for, for, you know, the

41:19last few

41:19years, but for most of the time we just lived high on the hog and we had a great life.

41:24And, and I

41:25wouldn't, I wouldn't change a lot of it, but if I could rewind my life, my life wouldn't have been

41:30affected that much. If I just sit, made the decision, no matter what business I was in or what multiple

41:36business I was in, that 10% of that money had to go away or the business wasn't worth keeping.

41:43And therefore, 10%, period. And what Kiyosaki has said is that savers are losers.

41:50Well, if savers don't invest in long-term better assets, and I'm not talking about the stock market

41:56here, uh, where, where did Kiyosaki put his money? He didn't put it in the stock market.

42:02He owns almost 7,000 pieces of real estate because when he read the book, creating wealth,

42:08he said, that's what we need to do. And that he read my book in 1988. And now he has

42:137,000

42:14properties because he did what I told him to do. And, and the savings part, most people don't,

42:20they won't save. And they just, they'll, they'll live a lot higher lifestyle. I met a couple in,

42:27in, in Chicago, which is where you're from. And they said, Robert, this is what we do. We both work.

42:33And, and I work and my wife works and we saved my wife's salary, her entire salary. She's, we live

42:39on

42:40my salary. We live in a more modest home, but, but we, we, we have to save. We have to.

42:46And therefore,

42:46they invested that in real estate. And now, now they've done extremely well for that

42:50because they, they, they, they, they tightened their belts. And people hate that thought that

42:56they hate that they have to, you know, be more careful with their money, but there's going to

43:01come a time, a day that if you're not careful with your money, you're going to be like 50%

43:07of

43:07the people who show up at retirement age and they can't retire. They have to keep working. They have

43:13to be Walmart greeters. And you don't want to be a Walmart greeter. That's the last thing you want.

43:19Although we recommend, we say to those who are Walmart greeters, thank you for the service you

43:25provide us. But had you lived your life slightly differently? Had you taken that 10% and saved it

43:31like it was precious? And you'd put it in the right kind of investment in real estate and managed by

43:37the

43:37right kind of people. Because most of us are bad at managing. We are too, our hearts are too, too

43:43kind.

43:44And a person says, I, I have to make my, my, my motorcycle payment this month. I can't pay you

43:48the

43:48rent. And we have to say rents first. The mortgage, mortgage-sided payment, they can repossess your

43:54market, your motorcycle, but you cannot stop paying your rent period or you're out. And most of us don't

44:01have the guts to do that. We just don't. We're kind. We're, we're, we believe people's lies.

44:08And therefore, you have to have somebody that's not hard. It's just somebody where the rules are

44:14clear. You move in, you have a deposit. If, and you're clear about it. If, if, if you miss a

44:20rent,

44:21we're going to apply your deposit. If you miss another moment, we're going to bring that share to

44:25the sheriff to your door and you will be out. And trust me, when they know the rules,

44:31rules, they live the rules. And you have a long-term tenants. You don't want short-term

44:37tenants. The wrong kind of tenants. And most people hear all the horror stories of, you know,

44:42the, the, the floods of the toilets and everything else. Well, if I got houses in Ohio, I can't fix

44:48a

44:48toilet in Ohio. No, my turnkey provider does that for me. And therefore, um, I, I recommend you go to

44:56retire in 10 years.com forward slash book. Get, get this, get this book. This is the book. I want

45:05my grandchildren to read because it's specifically detailed exactly what would happen in, in 10 years.

45:11It's the most detailed book I've, I've ever read. Even this book, these, this book has sold a million

45:16copies, still sells to this day, published in 1982. Um, you know, my full, my, my, my full description

45:24pretty much was by two houses a year and, and for 10 years. Uh, but in terms of the detail,

45:32there's just not the detail this book has got because Ryan has done this with thousands of

45:38students. He's got incredible success stories. As you mentioned earlier, uh, it's just, it's sad to

45:46see someone of older in their years working, working a job. It's just, it's just, if they had

45:53this knowledge way back in the day, they would have lifestyle that you don't have to be 80 years

45:58old and work a part-time job. It's just wrong. And so I hope more people wake up to this.

46:04You may

46:04have something going now. I totally get it. You have your business, you have your job. Yeah, sure.

46:09But as you've, as you've written and it's very wise to do have a something else to back up because

46:15you don't know what's going to happen tomorrow, but at least this way, you're better, better

46:18protected, better prepared. This, this subtitle, the subtitle of my book, multiple streams of income

46:24is, is, is how to retire with passive income. Yeah. And this is the hard thing for people to get.

46:30It has to be income, not equity. Yes. And, and, uh, it just, just changing that one little formula

46:36right there to say, does your equity, how do you have to turn your equity into cashflow?

46:40Well, what happens if you start cashing out of your, of your equity and the market has a downturn

46:46like it does every four years? Exactly. And now your, your equity, what happened to it? The drop by

46:52one third and you're still pulling money out of your equity because you got to live. Totally

46:57understand. And so this is a very good valuable lesson here. We're, we're, we're, we're, we're talking

47:03about here, real wealth reset. This is definitely a good path, a very important path to financial

47:10freedom. I hope everyone takes a, takes advantage of it and goes to retire in 10 years.com.

47:18Robert G. Allen. I just want to thank you so much for this advice and this information.

47:24We obviously could do a whole series on this. There's so much to talk about you. I really

47:29appreciate it. You've opened up my eyes. You've opened up some other people's eyes. I just want

47:33to thank you so much for coming on and spending some time helping us. Really, really appreciate it.

47:40Thank you, sir. And thank you, Tony. And by the way, I told you at the beginning before we started

47:45that,

47:46that your song, In God We Trust. If anybody of you have ever listened to, go to TonyDorcer.com and

47:54go

47:55listen to his music. And then God We Trust is a, is a cowboy music. It's, it's fantastic song. I

48:02absolutely love it. And you know, Tony, I, in order to prepare for this call, I watched some of your,

48:09your podcasts. It's good detailed information. I recommend everybody signs up for Tony's event

48:16because he's a, he's a giver and he's giving his time here as, as a gift to you. So I

48:24hope more

48:25people will sign up and that you'll have more views and, and I wish you well. Thank you very

48:30much, Tony. God bless everybody. Retire in 10 years.com forward slash book and get the book.

48:37You'll love it. And I'll see you at the top. Robert, we thank you so much. So good to have

48:42you

48:42on. Absolutely. Absolutely amazing. Well, there you go guys. Now, if you like this, which of course I

48:49know you, you, you do like it, tell your friends about it, tell them about Robert G. Allen, tell

48:54them about what he's been through, what he's accomplished and, and the, the insight of how

48:59to, you're not beating the system, but in the way you are, but you're just, you're, you're dealing

49:05with the carbs that are there and dealing with what's available and making sense out of it. So

49:18you should be enjoying yourself more when you're, when you're up there in years. That's the way I

49:22feel about it. And guys, wherever you're getting this, please follow the show. As Robert says,

49:27he loves it. He's a good fan of mine, of the show. And I'm grateful. I'm grateful for that.

49:32And by following the show, it helps to bring in more amazing guests to you. All right.

49:38Really good. Let's use this and let's help you move on your journey to success. Thanks. Remember,

49:44just take action. Success awaits those who persevere and remain steadfast despite the odds.

49:51Sow good seeds, do good deeds, and I'll see you on the next episode.

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