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02:20You must be at Lions Cultural Center, Port of Spain.
02:23This Friday, November 15th from 8pm for this massive Extemporama 2024.
02:29With 11 of the world's biggest extempor warriors.
02:33Also appearing, 2024 Freestyle Champion, Squeezy Rankin.
02:37It's back on now.
02:38This is Lingo, honorary or non-honorary.
02:40Gypsy, everybody wants a piece of you.
02:43And I want the biggest piece.
02:45And what does Gypsy have to say?
02:47Mr. Lingo, this is Gypsy here.
02:49The Extempor King of the world.
02:51The people honoring me.
02:52You talking about all you want piece.
02:54Let me tell you and all them other mocking pretenders.
02:57I am going to beat the life out of all you.
03:00And try to put it back.
03:01Come, see and hear.
03:03Live on stage.
03:04The battle zone of Extemporama.
03:06This Friday, November 15th from 8pm at Lions Cultural Center, Port of Spain.
03:11Tickets at Crosby St. James and all Tuco offices.
03:15Extemporama 2024.
03:17It's back on now.
03:18Now available on pay-per-view for $10 on WAC.TV.
03:30The Trinidad Express Newspapers celebrates 46 years of recognizing esteemed individuals
03:35who have made a significant contribution to national or community life.
03:39We invite you to submit your nominations for the 2024 Individual of the Year.
03:43In these categories.
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03:51Email your nominees with a brief justification to IOTY at TrinidadExpress.com
03:57For nomination criteria, visit TrinidadExpress.com
04:14Welcome to Beyond the Tube.
04:16I'm your host Marc Bessant.
04:17Welcome Trinidad and Tobago and of course all our viewers across the globe.
04:21It's Sydney, a very wet Wednesday.
04:24And we want to ask all motorists on the roadways to exercise caution.
04:28Caution as they leave their respective workplaces to get out of Port of Spain,
04:34San Fernando, Arima, Chaguanas, etc.
04:37A couple of images there of downtown Port of Spain.
04:42Of course, the weather has not been kind to especially persons in south Trinidad
04:49over the last 24 hours.
04:51There was some flooding in areas of Pinal where you would have seen of course
04:55images in the newspapers today and on television last night involving
05:00persons having to virtually maroon in specific areas.
05:04And they had to get assistance not only from the Pinal Debe Regional Corporation
05:11but also from the army and other fire and police personnel that were also
05:17on that scene yesterday.
05:19There was still some floodwaters rising in areas like I think it's Faizabad
05:25and so on.
05:26So this is an image of area in Faizabad where the water was rising this morning.
05:34And of course the reports that there's still water maybe in places as high as
05:39two feet Pinal and Faizabad and other environments.
05:44So today is legally speaking Wednesdays and of course today with us is a
05:49trainee at law Corporal Zahir Ali from the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.
05:53Welcome, sir.
05:54Good evening to you, Mark.
05:56Thank you very much for your introduction and immediately let me join hands with
06:00you on Trinidad and Tobago to reach out to my brothers and sisters or I should say
06:03our brothers and sisters in the areas that have been affected and continue to be
06:07affected by what we have declared.
06:09I've read in the newspaper, Mark, I cannot confirm formally whether in fact the
06:13area was declared a disaster area in keeping with the Disasters and Measures Act
06:20which is a legislation that when a particular area is affected by earthquake,
06:24flooding, hurricane, what have you, because of the seriousness and the risk that it
06:29pose to persons who may be in that area, they normally declare that area a
06:34disaster area.
06:35And one I mentioned at earlier o'clock is to ask the persons in that particular
06:40area to obey whatever regulations, whatever directions that have been given for
06:45your own safety and to ensure that the community is safe.
06:48Normally in those kind of situation, Mark, when there's a formal declaration
06:51just for purposes of public information, you will have Her Excellency declaring
06:56or identifying persons who will have the responsibility for things like
06:59communication, things like transport and that sort of thing.
07:02So to my brothers and sisters, I hope that you continue to exercise that
07:06patience, due diligence, and ensure that you are safe.
07:09And if there's anything that we can do as a TTPS, feel free.
07:14But to the Trinidad and Tobago in general, good evening to you.
07:17Those who may be visiting Oshawa, good evening to you as well, Jackie,
07:20members and family on the tape.
07:22Mark, there are several things that I would like to share briefly this
07:25afternoon.
07:26We may not be able to do it in all four segments, but I want to begin where
07:30on this platform I'm very critical with many institutions, and in particular
07:35the three institutions of the state and the public interest.
07:38And I think that when we see things that are of interest and promising
07:42that we must identify them, I'd like to identify two things this afternoon.
07:46One, sometime last week, the Honorable Justice Lisa Ramsemae Hines
07:53and the other stakeholders in the criminal justice system delivered,
07:58or I should say concluded a matter involving firearms and ammunition
08:01within 12 months.
08:03It's something that we have advocated for swift justice, swift trials,
08:07and that particular case that was adjudicated over Justice Lisa Ramsemae
08:13Hines, I think it's important to table that, at least to give members of
08:16the public some confidence that the criminal justice system, the wheel
08:20perhaps starts to turn.
08:22And I must also recognize and acknowledge the introduction of legislation
08:26to ensure that the criminal justice system is moving, and I hope and urge them
08:30to continue to effectively manage those cases.
08:33Coming out of that case as well, Mark, we have made use of an amendment
08:36of the Firearms Act with severe penalties and using firearms in a public place
08:40and so forth.
08:41So I thought that was important to recognize that.
08:43And the second thing, just Monday, I don't know if you saw it, Mark,
08:46for those who may be asking or those who have asked previously about whether
08:50in fact the death penalty is still in the books of Trinidad and Tobago,
08:54on Monday, the said Honorable Justice Lisa Ramsemae Hines handed down
08:59a sentence involving the death penalty in Trinidad and Tobago with a reference
09:03to the offense of murder.
09:06What I will say to that is that she has done her part.
09:09The accused will be open to his appeals.
09:12And it's important now when I'm signaling the state here effectively,
09:15let us try and manage the appeal process in keeping with the Pratt and Morgan
09:20principle to ensure that we really fully utilize the death penalty
09:25and send a message to those who may be bent on causing mayhem
09:29and no respect for the rule of law in Trinidad and Tobago.
09:32So I wanted to begin with that as a positive this afternoon where our judiciary,
09:36our stakeholders in the criminal justice system, we see two positives,
09:40and I think it's important to mention it, to urge them to continue
09:44to follow along those lines.
09:46Certainly. We'll have a discussion a little later on in the program about that.
09:50But we want to go to our headlines now.
10:17Those were the headlines, of course, within the last 24 hours.
10:21And we want to take you to a very sad scene that occurred last night
10:26in the Belmont area.
10:28A triple murder involving three young men.
10:32Their names are Josiah John 21, Kadeem Andrews 22, and Argenal Pong 28.
10:39The information is that approximately around 11 o'clock this morning,
10:43The information is that approximately around 11 o'clock this morning,
10:46they were proceeding along the Belmont Circular Road
10:49when residents of that area allegedly heard loud explosions.
10:54Later found the three men nursing gunshot wounds.
10:58Of course, the driver of that vehicle, Mr. Pong, he died a couple minutes later
11:05on the scene, and the other two young men were rushed to the
11:09Port of Spain General Hospital where they were pronounced dead.
11:13Now, this kind of landscape, it's unfortunate that they have reached
11:17a murder count of 544.
11:22And the Trinidad and Tobago Police statistics for the corresponding period
11:26of 2023 was just 502.
11:30And I know we have had numerous triple murders over the last 11 months
11:36and counting, because I do believe in January we started off a triple murder
11:40early in the year, and we had a couple others happening across the country
11:45along the East-West Corridor, one or two, I believe in Central,
11:48if memory serves me right, or South.
11:50I can't recall, but a lot of them were sprinkled across the East-West Corridor.
11:54And you talk about firearms.
11:57Yes.
11:58Heavy firepower here used in this shooting.
12:02We're still seeing that proliferation of heavy firepower on the streets,
12:07whether it's some gang-related activity or some other kind of activity
12:12or disagreement.
12:14Three young men are now dead.
12:16Well, Mark, again, let me join with you with condolences
12:18to the families of those individuals.
12:20But again, it's a very, very clear evidence of alleged gang-related activity
12:28and, in this case, capital murder on three counts based on the reports.
12:34And hence why I was so not only passionate, but I was so strong
12:38in relation to that death penalty, so that these persons who are bent
12:41with no respect not only for the persons that met their demise,
12:45but you could imagine that you are utilizing heavy-powered rifles
12:49that could have even further and greater collateral damage.
12:53Do we know if maybe children probably were on the streets
12:55or persons who might just be outside enjoying the ambience
12:59of their environment?
13:00So, again, unfortunate, but we need to be sending that message
13:04with reference to using every aspect of the law in order to deal
13:09with this issue that we are dealing with.
13:10Mark, not to digress, I think I owe the national community as well.
13:15On the last occasion, there was an issue regarding the Exchange Control Act.
13:20Yes.
13:21A person called in and indicated that he went to a location
13:24and saw persons engaging in transactions involving U.S. currency.
13:29I did a quick canvassing of the Exchange Control Act, Mark,
13:33and I would like to confirm, yes, there are several things that we need
13:36to know in terms of the persons who engage in those activities
13:42should be authorized by the central bank.
13:44And not only authorized, the authorized dealers are also gazetted.
13:48So those who may be interested, do your research and see
13:52who are the authorized persons who are gazetted to be able to engage
13:55in that buying and borrowing of the foreign exchange.
13:58So I just want to make mention of that.
14:00And under Section 5 and 6 of that particular legislation,
14:02it quite clearly prohibits persons to be unauthorized
14:06and dealing in activities like that.
14:08So putting up a sign on a store saying,
14:10we buy U.S. at $7 and all these kind of things,
14:13that is supposedly illegal.
14:14And you are not authorized, you are not one of the gazetted persons
14:17to conduct that sort of business.
14:20You can be caught within that Exchange Control Act.
14:22And finally, I also want to extend it to persons who may be engaged, Mark,
14:27of aiding, abetting, conspiring.
14:30So not only persons who may be the owner of the establishment,
14:33but persons who may be facilitating that activity for him or her or they
14:37can also be caught.
14:39So persons who are in those establishments, careful,
14:41exercise your due diligence so that you do not court within
14:44the Exchange Control Act to give rise to a criminal offense.
14:47It varies between two years to a five-year penalty on a summary and
14:51indictable.
14:52So just be careful.
14:53Be warned.
14:54But again, to the caller who raised that issue,
14:56I owe the national public that it is, in fact,
14:59a criminal offense under that particular legislation.
15:01So be wary that the FIB does not come knocking at your door.
15:04We're going to take a break and we'll be back.
15:06Stay with us.
15:07♪♪♪
15:18♪♪♪
15:22Whether you spend holiday nights gaming.
15:25♪♪♪
15:30Or all day decorating.
15:32♪♪♪
15:36Whether your cooking is an absolute disaster.
15:40♪♪♪
15:46Or your festive feast is a real lifesaver.
15:49♪♪♪
15:54Whether you love hosting the big line.
15:57♪♪♪
15:59Or hide away when the guests begin to arrive.
16:02♪♪♪
16:06Or whether you've sent gifts from a faraway place.
16:09Merry Christmas, my darling!
16:11Or you're there to see the joy on their face.
16:15However you're Christmasing,
16:17Flo has got you covered.
16:19Now this is radical trading.
16:21You hear that?
16:22And they have everything to cover anything.
16:24Radical trading have the best fabric designs
16:27for your poster in this year.
16:29The furniture, car, boat, and even material for school bags.
16:33This will look really nice on my coach boy.
16:36They even make him pillow too.
16:38Frank, those shirts are for get for money.
16:41Serious?
16:42It's a pay for it for me.
16:43Me and my big mouth boy,
16:44I wonder if radical get thing to cover mouth yet.
16:47Radical trading, four locations nationwide.
16:50♪♪♪
16:55Oh, current gone.
16:57Well, it's a good thing we have the solar lights.
16:59Dolly, you get them going.
17:02Charge your phone using this solar charger.
17:05Wah, no!
17:07The water real cold.
17:09When we get in our solar heater?
17:11You call solar power saving me tonight, huh?
17:13It's saving oil.
17:15I just want hot water again.
17:17Solar power to the people.
17:41To the enhanced e-paper experience.
17:43Enjoy bonus pictures and videos with select stories.
17:46Get articles translated into 11 languages.
17:49Use the convenient voice reader function when you're on the move.
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17:55with access to past editions at your fingertips.
17:58The Trinidad Express e-paper gives you more ways to subscribe.
18:02Sign up today for a free 90-day trial.
18:06♪♪♪
18:16Welcome back to Legally Speaking Wednesdays.
18:18I'm your host, Marc Bessan.
18:20Today with Attorney Corporal Zaheer Ali.
18:24And we were obviously talking before the break
18:27about, you know, what you would have brought up
18:31in reference to, jog my memory.
18:34The death penalty.
18:35The death penalty.
18:36And I know that we had spoken.
18:39I know there's a lot of argument and controversy
18:42because the last person to have been hanged in Trinidad and Tobago
18:46after Dolce D and the eight others
18:48was Anthony Briggs on July 20th, 1999.
18:53Since then, of course, some of them have had their sentences
18:57committed to life, et cetera,
18:58and they would have gone through the legal proceedings, of course,
19:01and so on.
19:03And I think that consensus since 1999,
19:05that's 25 years now since anybody has been hanged
19:09for committing the capital offense of murder.
19:12And I think I get the sense that, you know,
19:15a lot of people have lost feet in the legal system, of course,
19:18because this is where some of these alleged perpetrators
19:22would use the system to ensure that in some measure
19:25they get off the hook and they're committed to life.
19:29Well, Marc, I want to thank you for providing that statistics.
19:32And I think it's important.
19:33You know, as a matter of fact, I probably use this opportunity
19:35where you have already now ignited the discussion.
19:38And when you're looking at dealing with crime in a society
19:41that is crying out to be able to, you know,
19:44the stakeholders, the legislators, the judiciary, and so forth,
19:47when you have a law in the law book
19:49in relation to the death penalty,
19:51every effort should be made once the evidence is there
19:54and persons are convicted
19:56that we utilize the full length and breadth of the law.
19:58It makes no sense that there's a law in the book
20:00and we are not enforcing it.
20:02And I've made this point on numerous occasions,
20:04because, yes, on this platform I call for reform
20:06when there's a need for reform,
20:08but I also match it when there's a need
20:10for deep enforcement of the legislation.
20:12So I think that it is timely
20:14that you are bringing these statistics to show
20:16the time frame, the delay in utilizing this tool.
20:19Now, we know that there's been a lot of arguments
20:21for and against the death penalty,
20:23and I don't want to come into conflict
20:25with the human rights attorneys,
20:27because they have their work to do as well.
20:29But I'm saying that if the rule of law exists
20:33in Trinidad and Tobago,
20:35it should not be a rule of law that has not been impacted,
20:38especially now where we are 500 and how many?
20:41544.
20:43544 murders in Trinidad and Tobago
20:46with a 1.3 odd million persons, Mark.
20:48Definitely we need to use every law
20:50that we have in Trinidad and Tobago.
20:52So, Mark, thank you for the statistics.
20:54Maybe I could probably engage you after
20:56to provide it formally.
20:59But we do have a caller on the line.
21:01Caller, good evening.
21:04Caller, good evening.
21:08Good evening, sir.
21:28Make nothing, because this thing
21:30has been traded all over the country.
21:32701, 702, 701, 702.
21:34Why they make it a lot?
21:36They don't want the poor man to make nothing.
21:38So what's next?
21:39Okay, my uncle comes from America for Christmas every year.
21:42Give each one of us $1,000.
21:44What do I do with it?
21:46What do I do with it?
21:47I can spend it, I can sell it.
21:49I have the authority to sell my U.S.
21:52at any amount I receive.
21:55The Chinese bank, 701.
21:57They don't hide nothing.
21:59If I had, I could sell them it for 701.
22:02I see nothing wrong with that.
22:04Central bank, why they come down on the bank
22:06and they're charging people,
22:08especially children, $15 every month.
22:11Next $15 for transaction.
22:13Come down on the central bank,
22:15they make it half a billion dollars.
22:17Come down on them and give people 1% on their civil deposit.
22:19Come down on them soon.
22:20Not the poor man like me and you.
22:22Yes, boss.
22:52There may be other persons who feel similarly.
22:54It's important for us to revisit these things.
22:56So yes, we may have a construct mark.
22:58You buy a suit today.
22:59It may last you for a couple occasions.
23:01But after a while, you need to what?
23:03The culture, the tradition, the material.
23:07So like in anything else, we need to see whether, in fact,
23:09there may be a need to reform that area,
23:11maybe make it a wider application.
23:16But again, healthy, and this is why I enjoy this platform.
23:21And as you said, the scarcity of U.S. currency,
23:23and I am not going to compare countries here, viewers,
23:27but I've been to Guyana and a couple other countries in the Caribbean,
23:30and Guyana, there's actually a street you can go
23:33and you can buy any kind of currency.
23:36You can buy euros, you can buy U.S.,
23:38you can buy pounds, et cetera.
23:40They might probably have stipulations under their law, right?
23:44But obviously, we don't have that kind of stipulation here
23:48or something in place, as you indicate,
23:50for any establishment outside of the banks
23:54to advertise that they are buying and selling currency.
23:57Of course, you can go to the Cambio in the airport as well
24:00and buy and sell currency there
24:02because they are allowed to legitimately.
24:05So I think there's a little bit of a difference.
24:08But I have 1,000 U.S.
24:10and I think, yeah, you can go and sell it to anybody.
24:12But that's you individually.
24:15But these people who are advertising that they're buying U.S.,
24:18they're doing it at a legal risk, yes?
24:21Yes, of course.
24:22And just to probably flesh it out a little bit,
24:24maybe we may want to distinguish from a family domestic arrangement
24:28as opposed to you offering in a commercial market
24:31a continuation of the business activity.
24:33So let's look at it.
24:35But again, Kola, as always,
24:37your expressions and your concerns are well received.
24:41Certainly.
24:42And I do believe you have another caller on the line.
24:45Kola, good evening.
24:47Yes, hello. Good evening.
24:51This law with hanging,
24:54what is preventive?
24:56If you have a law on the law books,
25:00what is preventing the law from being implemented,
25:04especially in a time like COVID?
25:06Hanging is on the law.
25:07If that is the case,
25:09what is legal capital punishment?
25:13What is the key?
25:14Regardless of whether it's human rights,
25:16people of human rights,
25:18what is the reason for not carrying it out?
25:23And then the other thing is,
25:25this killer thing in the country.
25:28I don't know.
25:30But there seems to be some effort,
25:33something to carry up this score.
25:37There seems to be something in the society.
25:40And I'm not talking about nothing spiritual or nothing like that.
25:44There seems to be some kind of concerted effort
25:47to just make this figure.
25:49Because the way it is being done,
25:52I just don't understand.
25:57If that is the law,
26:00carry out the law.
26:01Regardless of whatever it is,
26:03carry out the law of the land.
26:08Again, Kola, thank you very much.
26:10And you have basically seduced me by your expressions
26:15to respond again
26:16where why the law has been clearly applied
26:21with the death penalty on Monday.
26:23I spoke in relation to the extension
26:25where it must be executed within a five-year period
26:28in keeping with the Pratt & Morgan of the Privy Council.
26:30So you have a judicially Privy Council judgment
26:33that is also giving directions
26:36as to the time in which that death penalty should be executed.
26:39And we know, Mark,
26:40in the first instance in the High Court,
26:42the person may have an appeal to the Court of Appeal.
26:44They may have an appeal to the Privy Council.
26:46And then you may have human rights bodies
26:48who are also that he or she may want to petition
26:50for them to have an input.
26:52But the important thing here is,
26:54and I want to respectfully make reference
26:57to the former Attorney General of Trinidad and Tobago,
26:59Mr. Ramesh Lawrence Murad, Senior Counsel.
27:02Sometime ago, he was very, very vocal
27:05when he spoke to Trinidad and Tobago
27:08and identified clearly that the entire process
27:12must be effectively managed
27:14so that we can be exhausting all those appeals
27:17if it's invoked in a timely manner.
27:20And I think that he hinted, you know,
27:22without quoting him,
27:23he hinted that during the time
27:25that he was the Attorney General,
27:27that that was the system that was put in place
27:29to have a group, a committee,
27:31to really effectively manage those appeals.
27:33So, Kola, again, I'm happy that you raise it,
27:35but those are very topical issues.
27:37And I want to agree with you.
27:38Let us take all efforts,
27:40take all administrative steps,
27:42take all operational steps
27:43to ensure that we have the full use
27:45of a very important tool,
27:47but especially what we are seeing in Trinidad and Tobago
27:50to at least curb those capital offenses.
27:53Certainly, certainly, I have to agree with you there.
27:55Yes.
27:56We're going to pay some bills and we're going to be back.
27:57Stay with us.
27:58We'll be back.
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30:17Be there.
30:22Welcome back to Beyond the Tape.
30:24It's Legally Speaking Wednesdays
30:26and it's getting a little bit warm in here, you know.
30:30I think we have a caller in the line.
30:32Caller, good evening.
30:35Good evening, caller.
30:37A pleasant good evening.
30:39Firstly, Mr. Bassan, I would like to give you a call.
30:42I'm sorry, I'm not able to get through to you.
30:45I'm sorry, I'm not able to get through to you.
30:48I'm sorry, I'm not able to get through to you.
30:50I would like to give you your flowers.
30:52You are one of the best journalists
30:55that has passed through this country
30:57and it's not the Caribbean.
30:59So, sir, take your flowers.
31:02Mr. Ali, a video has been surfacing on social media
31:06of what appears to be a police officer's volunteer
31:10apparently going through some sort of mental breakdown.
31:17Could you confirm if it is a police officer also, too?
31:21If he's actually getting the help that is so desired for him
31:26because it was really, really sad to see that.
31:29Even whether he be a police officer or a normal citizen,
31:32he looked like a normal gentleman
31:34who's just going through something,
31:36who just suddenly just falls into a state of depression.
31:39Could you please confirm?
31:40A wonderful program.
31:42I must say I must give congrats to TV6 and this program
31:47and a great addition in that being Mr. Bassad.
31:50Thank you very much.
31:52Welcome.
31:53Well, Mark, before I respond to the caller,
31:56let me congratulate you.
31:59When we're hearing comments from members of the public
32:01for your excellent work,
32:03I must also join in that and ask you to continue
32:06to promote the best interests of Trinidad and Tobago
32:09through your platform.
32:10So let me congratulate you as well.
32:13To the caller, unfortunately, I have not seen that video.
32:16Excuse me.
32:17But if anyone have the video,
32:19I don't know whether Jackie has the video.
32:21Probably I can take a look of it and see if, in fact,
32:24it's a police officer or whoever it may be.
32:27The necessary intervention can be directed to that individual
32:30to ensure that we get the necessary support
32:32for that individual, whether police or otherwise.
32:35Agreed.
32:36I have seen the video last night.
32:38I think the producer would have seen it.
32:40I think there's a part to a follow-up
32:42where I believe the officer is talking or somebody is talking.
32:46But as I said, I didn't want to...
32:48I guess we'd have to get verification, of course,
32:50because there was an exercise where he was on the road,
32:53we were also on directing traffic
32:55and then helping people out of a bus.
32:57There were other officers across at Valencia Police Station,
33:00one in a uniform and other plainclothes officers.
33:03So we certainly hope that if he is a member
33:07of Trinidad and Tobago Police Service,
33:09that all assistance is rendered to that officer in need.
33:13And, of course, when we get more information,
33:15we will obviously bring it to you here.
33:17And just one more thing, Mark.
33:18If any of the family members are listening or relatives or friends
33:20who may have seen the video,
33:22you can provide the necessary information
33:26so we can get to that person quickly,
33:28as opposed to waiting for the video.
33:30If you are aware, please provide the information
33:32so we can make the necessary intervention.
33:34Certainly.
33:36So, there was a...
33:38I think we have a caller on the line.
33:40Caller, good evening.
33:42Caller?
33:44Hello, good evening. Are you hearing me?
33:46Yes, we are hearing you. Go ahead.
33:48Good evening, ma'am.
33:49Yeah, good evening.
33:50Officer, when does the Patten-Morgan come in?
33:53Because of this thing that happened,
33:56and we know we can harm people,
33:58but this murder was committed in 2009.
34:01So when does that Patten-Morgan thing come in?
34:03Because it's more than five years.
34:05When the person was sentenced
34:07or when the murder was committed,
34:09that's my first point.
34:10My second point is,
34:11you remember I've spoken before
34:13concerning the police officers
34:16having to go into the area
34:18with all their firearms.
34:23And I realize now that it is debatable
34:26because a lot of people are talking about that
34:28because I want to know what is happening.
34:31If it's a policy or if it's a law,
34:35because I also read where judicial officers
34:38are allowed to enter the court
34:40with their personal firearms.
34:42So then I'm wondering
34:44if it's just for the police officers
34:46not to be able to come in,
34:48if it's a policy or if it's a general,
34:50or if it's the law.
34:51I wanted that to be clarified.
34:53The third point is,
34:54I saw when the movement,
34:56he was somebody who was killed by their own gun.
34:58And we looked at this person
35:00in the red cap who went into this place
35:02and taking money out there.
35:03And he just dropped the gun off.
35:04Anybody could have taken that gun
35:06and done anything with it.
35:07So I hope to catch him by now
35:09because everybody saw him
35:11and this red cap.
35:12And we will be able to get him.
35:16So I hope he is caught by now.
35:18And I'm happy that the woman police is out.
35:20I hope she will be much better
35:22and will happen to be completely healed
35:24in a very short time.
35:26Thank you very much.
35:28Thanks for your comments there, Kola.
35:31So you have your plate full.
35:33First one is about the death sentence,
35:35the Pratt and Morgan.
35:36It's five years that's passed.
35:37Whether it's from the time of conviction
35:40or of the time of the murder.
35:42Time of conviction,
35:43the time starts to run
35:44with reference to the five year period
35:46that you have to exhaust all your appeals,
35:48including any human rights body
35:49that you may want to invoke
35:51to look at your particular matter.
35:53So that's one.
35:54Number two, Mark.
35:56That particular issue in reference to the...
35:59I want to use it as the unfortunate situation
36:02or the conflict regarding the TTPS
36:04and the judiciary.
36:05I will say respectfully,
36:07and I wear both in terms of being an officer of the court
36:10and on the other hand,
36:11I'm a member of the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.
36:13I want to say respectfully here this afternoon
36:15that I think the time has come
36:16to resolve that matter quickly.
36:18I think in my respective view,
36:19we have allowed that matter to be extended
36:24to an extent in my respective view
36:25that it could have been solved and solved quickly.
36:28And I want to urge respectfully
36:30the two institutions,
36:31the judiciary and the TTPS,
36:33to quickly enter into discussion
36:35so that we can have a resolution.
36:37It's not healthy.
36:38It's not good.
36:39And members of the public
36:40is looking on a very important institution of the state
36:43where the issue in terms of whether in fact
36:45police can go in with the firearms or not,
36:47whether there's a policy,
36:48whether the policy conflicts with our law,
36:49whether there's a lower...
36:50Let us sit around the table quickly
36:52and resolve the issue
36:53as opposed to seeing every morning
36:56or every other morning
36:57you're seeing someone making a statement in the newspaper.
36:59So I want to urge both institutions.
37:01I have an interest in both.
37:03It's time that we resolve that matter
37:05and do the people's business
37:07in the way that we should be doing the people's business.
37:09Let me just interject here
37:10because I got a call yesterday from an officer
37:14and the circumstances, of course, they have to wait.
37:16This officer, who I happen to know,
37:19had a matter at the court.
37:21However, he also has a police report
37:24where an alleged gang leader
37:26from somewhere in South Trinidad
37:28issued threats on his life.
37:30But he had to attend court for another matter.
37:33And of course...
37:34Yes.
37:35You know, the rest is history.
37:36He was not allowed within the court precincts with his firearm.
37:40And he took umbrage, of course,
37:42because his life is at risk.
37:43I don't know how they're going to work out
37:45circumstances like that
37:47because sometimes they might have to
37:49make an exception to the rule.
37:51But of course, the judiciary has already
37:54given a clear indication of where it stands.
37:58Well, Mark, as I said,
37:59I don't want to get into that discussion.
38:00But the fact that you have raised an issue,
38:02you have allowed me,
38:03or you have supported why I'm saying
38:05that we need to quickly sit around a table
38:07and discuss it
38:08because there may well be circumstances.
38:10And who knows?
38:11I have not seen the policy.
38:13But maybe the policy
38:14probably have already contained in the policy
38:16that there may be situations
38:17where you probably can make an application
38:19to the Chief Justice
38:20or maybe an operations officer
38:22to be able to facilitate that situation.
38:24So I'm just saying that mature thinking,
38:27mature responsible thinking
38:29and actions on the part of both entities,
38:31you know, let us get...
38:32We have more serious matters to deal with.
38:34And I think the time has come for us to deal with that quickly.
38:37I think it's taken too long.
38:38And this is an administrative issue that can be solved.
38:41So, you know, I feel really passionate about it.
38:43And I hope that by next Wednesday, Mark,
38:46that we won't be having, you know,
38:48to be speaking about this issue.
38:50It will be resolved, you know,
38:52to the best interest of all parties in the matter.
38:55All right.
38:56We're going to take a break
38:57and we'll take more of your calls when we come back.
38:59Stay with us.
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41:33Welcome back to Beyond the Tape. It's Legally Speaking Wednesdays
41:36and I'm here with Attorney at Law, Corporal Zahir Ali of the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.
41:41I think we have a caller on the line. Caller, good evening.
41:45Caller, good evening.
41:47Hi, good evening, gentlemen.
41:49Good evening, sir.
41:50Corporal Ali, you know, I have to challenge you on what you said before the break, right?
41:56On certain days, you know.
41:58Now, the facts are these, right?
42:00Currently, you are aware, as a civil police officer,
42:03that our students are not allowed to go to the higher floors
42:07on the ground floor without lodging their files.
42:09And that is compliance. And that is for a specific reason.
42:13Something happened in 1987.
42:16And since that time, that was the decision taken by the police officers, right?
42:21So, whether you are a student or your own personal,
42:26it has to be lodged downstairs in the area for lodging files.
42:30I am saying, if the judiciary wishes to do that,
42:34then they can do the same thing.
42:36Provide an area where officers who are going to court can lodge their files
42:41once they have matters in the court.
42:43But also, consider this.
42:45The judicial officers are also FQL holders.
42:49Are you saying that judicial officers who are so rewarded
42:58will hand up their files when they enter the court to adjudicate matters?
43:03No, let's be real.
43:05And similarly, there are police officers like yourself
43:08who provide guard services for officers like the AG, the DPP, and the Chief Justice.
43:17Are those colleagues going to court without their files? No, sir.
43:22So, this is an anomaly that is taking place
43:25that is only going on because of ego.
43:28Ego is causing that.
43:30And for practical purposes, instead of cramming the country,
43:33we want officers not to be put to the arms at any time.
43:37So, I am saying that it makes no sense that they are not allowing people to go to court
43:43with their FQL files.
43:47It makes no sense.
43:49If you don't go to court, you are sick of them.
43:53You say, let them go to court.
43:55It's okay.
43:56So, I couldn't help but...
43:58The audio seems to be dropping a bit.
44:01Yes, I am saying that our policy cannot stop what is in the law
44:05when it comes to the crime cases
44:08which are Parliament and open courts of competent jurisdiction.
44:12Colin, in a nutshell, can you just refresh our minds as to what happened in 1987?
44:16In 1987, there was a murder-suicide of Constable Francis and his wife, Rosa WPC.
44:24That happened in the old police headquarters there, three years before 1990.
44:29And after that, that decision was made.
44:34Police Constable Francis Adams and his then-wife, WPC, Maureen Bradshaw Adams.
44:40That happened in 1987.
44:44Thank you very much, Colin.
44:46Colin, you begin by indicating that it was a challenge.
44:50But what you have done, you have actually supported my submissions
44:53that this is an issue that we need to work out.
44:55And you ended by indicating a word that they call ego.
45:00That if we are holding public offices and we are not responsible and mature to understand,
45:04okay, if there's an issue, we can sit down and resolve it.
45:08And let us apply that.
45:10We have been asking our little children in the school, Mark,
45:13to be able to socialize and communicate.
45:17And persons who are in very important offices,
45:21all I'm saying is that, and I did not take a position,
45:23all I'm saying is that one way or the other,
45:25if we do not sit and place the issues on the table,
45:28and, Mark, you put a very important equation,
45:30there may be a situation where you may need an exception.
45:33So we need to look at it in the best interest of all parties.
45:35So you actually supported me.
45:37But I thank you.
45:38I love challenges, for those who know.
45:40I love challenges because that's the only way that we can go forward.
45:43So thank you very much, Colin.
45:45We appreciate callers like yourself.
45:47You have background, you have context, and we appreciate that.
45:50We have another caller on the line.
45:52Caller, good evening.
45:54Good evening, gentlemen.
45:56Good evening.
45:58Yes.
45:59Mark, I just want to comment on something that one of the callers raised.
46:05The caller asked the question of, you have a law, right,
46:10which is death penalty,
46:11and he wants to know exactly why the law is not being enforced.
46:16And that is such a widespread problem in France.
46:21The pH is against the law.
46:23There are pH cards that have illegal stamped all around the country,
46:27even in Palestine.
46:29So key independence square.
46:32Why are the laws not being enforced?
46:36I recently heard a big brouhaha being made about Kent,
46:42and I raised on this program, what about the noise of the vehicles?
46:49I will give you a little breakdown of statistics.
46:52One year, they gave about 200-and-something tickets.
46:57But, you know, Mark, we have estimated 50,000, at least,
47:05vehicles on the road making noise, because we have 500,000 vehicles on the road.
47:09So an estimate of how many would be making noise.
47:14And this is the police telling us that in any given year,
47:18they're giving about 200 tickets.
47:20That's a drop in the bucket.
47:22You know, on your own, we in this country,
47:25you might know what this program is about,
47:27but the reality is, in France, the law enforcement is really, really poor.
47:33And in closing, I just want to say something.
47:36And corporately, you don't have to comment on this.
47:39I already spoke to you and told you
47:41I found that you did something very courageous and honest,
47:46but I want to throw something I want to mark as a journalist.
47:49You see, Mark, when people first started calling about noise,
47:55calling the police to complain about noise,
47:57the police used to say, because we speak to the offenders,
48:00but it was bad, you know, because we speak to the offenders.
48:03There's no law enforcement or anything.
48:05And then that changed when the EMA came into place.
48:08The EMA came into place in 1995.
48:10We are in 2024.
48:12Up to now, the EMA has done very little to deal with noise pollution on the whole.
48:16Imagine that. That's 1995.
48:18That's 19 years.
48:20But Mark, I don't want to leave this with you.
48:22And somebody in the media should be saying this,
48:24and I shall have to say it.
48:26When the police first used to get calls,
48:28they would say that they can't speak to the person,
48:32and then that changed to call the EMA,
48:34and then that changed to their saloon heaters.
48:36But, you know, it's only when I remember the public brought up the fact
48:39that there's a law called prison or public mission,
48:42then the police started saying,
48:44well, yeah, the law is there, but it's weak.
48:46So why the police didn't know prior to 1995 that the law was there?
48:49Because the law was there from time immemorial.
48:51I leave that with you, Mark, but the media should be saying this, not me.
48:54Thank you very much.
48:56All right. We're going to respond after the break, so stay with us.
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51:04♪
51:35Welcome back to Beyond the Tape.
51:37I'm your host, Mark Bassan.
51:38It's Legally Speaking Wednesdays,
51:40and we're here with Attorney-at-Law Corporal Zahir Ali
51:43of the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service,
51:45and we're sitting out a lot of food for thought,
51:47and I know we have a very short time left,
51:50and I know we just wanted to touch on something else
51:52that is also topical when we're talking about granting of license
51:56for various parties and so on.
51:58I know in the last couple of weeks,
52:00the police would have revoked, well, via the court,
52:03would have revoked specific license for specific parties
52:06because of ongoing tensions and gang warfare in this area here.
52:12Well, Mark, I'm happy that you raised that issue.
52:14I know that is very topical, and for members of the public,
52:17I don't want to go into depth, because as we speak,
52:20there's a hearing unfolding in reference to one in Seoul.
52:23But just for members of the public,
52:25this issue of granting of license for various parties
52:28but just for members of the public,
52:30this issue of an application for an occasional license
52:33and a dancehall license,
52:36I want to immediately say that the police
52:40is very concerned about public safety and security.
52:43I want to begin with that.
52:45And the judicial pronouncements in relation to matters
52:48surrounding those licenses are very clear
52:50that the police must protect the public interest
52:52when we are talking about safety and security.
52:54So in a case where there is credible intelligence
52:57that the persons who are coming to sing,
53:01you know, the artists,
53:03if we have intelligence that those persons are involved
53:05in gang activity, in conflict with gangs
53:09that exist in Trinidad and Tobago,
53:11the police has to be taking a proactive step
53:13to ensure that they're protecting the greater public interest.
53:15So what the police will do is that
53:18through the senior officer in the division,
53:20any intelligence, any objections
53:22will be led through that particular officer,
53:24and then due process takes its place,
53:27where the court, as you rightly said,
53:29will look at the matters on both sides,
53:31for the applicant and the police,
53:33and then make a decision.
53:35And obviously there are opportunities to appeal and review,
53:37as the case may be.
53:38So I want to give members of the public that
53:40the police is just ensuring that they enforce the law
53:43where the legalized narc is concerned,
53:45and also trying to ensure that we use all avenues
53:48to ensure that we promote public safety and security, Mark.
53:52And you speak of intelligence,
53:54and of course you would have mentioned artists and so on,
53:56coming to these particular events.
53:58That might be one side of the story.
54:00However, there's also the other side to this,
54:03where these types of events will attract specific persons,
54:07maybe even rival gangs coming to this event,
54:11whereas they see it as an opportunity
54:14to attack at some point after,
54:17or before the person gets to the event,
54:19and we have seen that happen in the past,
54:21a couple of years.
54:23Well, Mark, I know that you are in the ideal place,
54:25you know, in terms of your reporting,
54:27and you are so correct,
54:28that the baseline, if you go back in history,
54:30and not too far back,
54:31you will see both in Trinidad and Tobago,
54:33and across the jurisdiction,
54:35I think in St. Martin, if I recall,
54:38you would have seen that there was a concert,
54:40and you saw that there was a shooting
54:42that resulted in one of our citizens being shot,
54:44and have to be transported home for medical treatment.
54:47So when you are involved in this issue of gang,
54:50and you are rivaling with other gangs,
54:52anywhere gangs get the opportunity,
54:54they can create mayhem in a particular situation.
54:57So even members of the public
54:59who may have been interested to go to our party,
55:02and were intended to be law-abiding,
55:05you still are not prevented
55:07if there should be an escalation of violence
55:09in relation to those areas.
55:11So I just want to give that assurance to members of the public
55:14that we are enforcing the law
55:16and promoting public safety and security.
55:18And on that note, repeat tonight at 11.30.
55:21We run tomorrow at 11 a.m.
55:23The TV6 News is up next. Stay with us.
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