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03:05Good evening Trinidad and Tobago.
03:07I'm your host, Mark Bessant, and you're looking at Beyond the Tape.
03:10Of course, it's the middle of the week, and you know on Beyond the Tape what that spells, of course.
03:17Legally speaking, Wednesdays, and joining us today is none other than Corporal Zaheer Ali.
03:23Welcome, sir.
03:25Good evening to you, Mark.
03:26Again, it's a pleasure and a privilege to share this platform with you.
03:30And especially with, you know, the many things that are happening in our jurisdiction of Trinidad and Tobago.
03:36Good evening to Jackie and other members of the Beyond the Tape family, TV6.
03:41And most importantly, Mark, the people who you represent every day, the public's interest,
03:47the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago, you know, I want to reach out to you this afternoon,
03:52you know, to hold your hands and, you know, let us, you know,
03:56work this thing together in relation to the very serious challenges, you know, that we are facing.
04:00Not only from the criminal elements in a strict sense, but also we're seeing a great challenge within the DTPS,
04:06where even persons within the DTPS are involved in very serious acts of criminality.
04:11But, Mark, this afternoon, you know, with reference to the issue of the police uniform,
04:18I know that has been topical, you know, from your end, and, you know, a bit occupying the public space.
04:24And I think it was important, you know, this afternoon, you know, come with me early o'clock,
04:29you know, legally speaking Wednesday, to just share something just briefly, but very strong.
04:34And I want to pitch this respectfully to the Office of the Attorney General
04:38and the Law Reform or the Law Review Commission of Trinidad and Tobago.
04:43Mark, we cannot be, and I know several other officers and other stakeholders would have spoken
04:50about the need to have a look at that uniform, look at the procurement of that uniform,
04:55the persons who have the authority to distribute, and I endorse that.
05:00But something is nagging me in relation to, we cannot be speaking about a great challenge
05:07with reference to persons who are wearing uniform or uniform that are resembling police
05:11or impersonating police, pretending to be police, in very serious acts of criminality,
05:16kidnappings that we have seen.
05:19And we are not excited, Mark, to look at the particular section
05:25under the Police Service Act, Section 62, which speaks about impersonating police officers.
05:30When I looked at that, and I see a $30,000 fine and a three-year penalty,
05:37Mark, it tells me that we need to wake up and, you know, without prejudice,
05:42maybe the discussions are ongoing, but I think I need to use this platform
05:45in the public's interest, in the best interest of the TTPS,
05:49for the Attorney General's Office, the Law Review Commission, and other units
05:56to have a look at this particular section immediately, and let us swiftly move it
06:01into Parliament to, at least in the first instance, increase the penalty and sanctions
06:07so that it will be seeded in the mind of persons to probably think twice
06:11when they are looking to impersonate police officers.
06:13I thought it was important from a legislative context,
06:16and I hope that you can assist me where you stand.
06:19I hope that tomorrow morning, Mark, respectfully,
06:21that it occupies the headlines of the Daily Express
06:24so that we fully get that message to the legislature
06:28that if we are seeing a problem with persons impersonating police officers,
06:32then the penalty must reflect that it's of public importance.
06:36I just wanted to share that.
06:37Certainly, because, I mean, we had a discussion yesterday
06:40with ACP of the Criminal Division, Mr. Simon.
06:43Yes.
06:44And he did indicate that there are a number of things happening
06:47behind the scenes, of course.
06:48Yes.
06:49And in due course, it will be revealed in its entirety.
06:53Yes.
06:54And I myself was not on ground with exactly the penalty.
06:57Yes.
06:58So for me, it certainly is eye-opening to see that it is such a minor,
07:04you know, infraction, you know, $30,000 or three years
07:07for when people are wearing a uniform that stands for law enforcement,
07:12that stands to protect and serve this country,
07:15and they use it to do the opposite.
07:17And, Mark, again, you couldn't have been more on point
07:21with a reference to why we may be looking at a uniform,
07:24why I'm actually putting this emphasis on it.
07:26Based on the information that we have,
07:29we know that it's a subject of investigation.
07:31We saw on the last occasion where persons in clothing resembling police,
07:37you know, minimum, if not police uniform,
07:40quite subject to an investigation,
07:42but look at the act that they were committing,
07:45an act of kidnapping and kidnapping for ransom.
07:48Now, let's associate the penalty with kidnapping for ransom.
07:51Very serious.
07:52So I think it's important that we don't do only look at
07:57the actual offence of kidnapping and kidnapping for ransom,
08:00but look at the planning,
08:02look at the strategy and tactics,
08:06if I may say that, that the criminal element is applying.
08:09So we need to look at this thing in a 360,
08:11and hence why I'm using this platform,
08:13this legally speaking platform on Beyond the Tape, TV6,
08:16to represent the public's interests,
08:18to be able to identify, hey,
08:20Section 62 of the Police Service Act
08:22must be looked at immediately,
08:24and the legislators, the parliament,
08:26must be excited to revisit this particular section
08:29to at least start to demonstrate to the general community
08:32that the authorities are serious about stopping this issue
08:36where persons are using police uniform
08:38or clothing resembling police.
08:40And one last point with this, Mark.
08:42Because of the psychological impact that it is having,
08:45I heard lots of persons, and rightly so,
08:47indicating, well, should I really stop?
08:49Should I really give in to police persons
08:53who may be wearing a uniform that may be resembling
08:55and not certain, well, who are we dealing with?
08:57So because of the psychological impact
08:59and more importantly,
09:01the confidence that you want the public
09:03to enjoy the police service,
09:05I think that we need to start,
09:07go back to the foundation,
09:09and now reshaping the law
09:11to at least start as a deterrent
09:13for persons who may be inclined to act as such.
09:15And I share your passion, obviously, with this.
09:17And, you know, strange enough,
09:19just today in the newsroom,
09:21one of my colleagues was actually speaking
09:23about the fact that they don't know
09:25anymore if there's a police siren
09:27or a police vehicle behind them
09:29in the darkness, in the night.
09:31And my best suggestion, if you're unsure,
09:33is to drive to the nearest police station,
09:36because now we have
09:38criminals using police vehicles
09:40or vehicles that appear to be police vehicles,
09:42even with the whole nine yards,
09:44sirens, and so on,
09:46and then that erodes
09:48the public trust
09:50of the TTPS
09:52that the public has in them,
09:54because now they are wondering
09:56even if they are even
09:58safe stopping
10:00in the night,
10:02especially for police,
10:04for alleged police vehicle.
10:06And Mark, again,
10:08I love when you
10:10expanded on the public
10:12trust and confidence that we are working hard
10:14to earn for members of the public,
10:16and hence why I am saying that,
10:18how would you maintain or start
10:20building trust and confidence?
10:22We know that we have spoken
10:24about a societal approach.
10:26So if we have the TTPS facing
10:28a very serious challenge in terms of their uniform,
10:30we expect the other institutions
10:32of the state to say, listen,
10:34how can we get involved?
10:36And how can we get involved is looking at the law,
10:38what the law is
10:40as it stands, and how can we develop
10:42that law to ensure that we maintain
10:44public trust and confidence or we build on it
10:46to say, okay, the authorities,
10:48that's the legislature in this particular instance,
10:50the steps that they are required to take to ensure
10:52that that public trust and confidence is so important.
10:54We have heard the public is the police and the police is the public.
10:56So members of the public,
10:58if you have your own platform,
11:00you have your own avenue,
11:02you have the confidence to speak with members of the media,
11:04I ask you for the public's
11:06interest, let us advocate
11:08for review of the law as it relates
11:10to persons who are impersonating police
11:12officers or wearing
11:14uniform or clothing
11:16resembling uniform that will make it
11:18difficult to police Trinidad and Tobago.
11:20Most certainly, most certainly.
11:22And from some very poignant
11:24points you brought there to the fore,
11:26we're going to just
11:28step away from that for a minute and we're going to take
11:30a look at our headlines.
12:18So those were our headlines.
12:20So today, a story
12:22that has been unfolding for
12:24several months now,
12:26the Hannah Matura case,
12:28a very sad
12:30story,
12:32something that we usually
12:34would see occurring in the movies,
12:36a very sad
12:38story,
12:40something that we usually
12:42would see occurring in the movies,
12:44a very sad story,
12:46something that we usually
12:48would see occurring in the movies,
12:50where her parents were
12:52charged yesterday
12:54for her murder,
12:5620 believed, sometime
12:58between the period 2017
13:00to March
13:02of this year,
13:04when they found the remains
13:06at this vault,
13:08seen home here, Butu Road home,
13:10a very nice drone shot there
13:12of the area,
13:14before Master Sarah
13:16De Silva,
13:18today, through a docket
13:20at the Tinopuna cell block,
13:22to answer the charge of
13:24murder, and surely
13:26we don't want to go into a lot of details, but we will
13:28speak around some of the things
13:30that have transpired, but just briefly,
13:32your thoughts. Well Mark,
13:34when the news,
13:36or I should say the report was brought
13:38into the public domain,
13:40this definitely would have shaken
13:42Trinidad and Tobago, especially where
13:44you describe it a short while ago as things that you see in movies,
13:46but this situation,
13:48definitely would have shaken
13:50Trinidad and Tobago, and it actually would have caused
13:52Trinidad and Tobago
13:54to recognize the importance of us
13:56looking out for each other,
13:58paying attention to the community, paying attention to
14:00your neighbor, looking to see whether
14:02in fact there's things that
14:04may be suspicious that you need to report,
14:06so when it came, definitely
14:08it was
14:10a story that really hit
14:12Trinidad and Tobago in many different contexts.
14:14We got the criminologist speaking,
14:16we got the social worker speaking, we got professionals
14:18speaking, and most importantly, in this context
14:20now, we had law enforcement intervention
14:22and you just reported a short while
14:24ago the conclusion in regards
14:26to the charges that was laid. Now
14:28Mark, let me
14:30express
14:32condolences to the family of
14:34the deceased,
14:36the relatives,
14:38very unfortunate situation,
14:40but the Director of Public Prosecution has
14:42pronounced, and
14:44my interaction with him,
14:46I know that he
14:48looks at what we call
14:50a full court test mark, full court test
14:52meaning the two limbs when you are deciding to
14:54charge, whether there's sufficient evidence
14:56and whether in fact it's in the public
14:58interest, so I know that he would have
15:00weighed that, but I know time
15:02we have a break coming up, so I guess we can probably
15:04extend that discussion after the break.
15:06Alright, so certainly
15:08we're going to take a short break, but when we come back,
15:10we'll talk a little more about this case, and we'll take
15:12your calls of course, 623-1711
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17:28Welcome back to Beyond the Tape.
17:30I'm your host, Mark Bassan, of course,
17:32joined by Corporal Zaheer Ali.
17:34It's Legally Speaking Wednesdays
17:36and we do want to give a special
17:38shout out to
17:40DCP Martin of the
17:42Intelligence and Investigations
17:44who's looking on. Good evening
17:46ma'am. So, I mean,
17:48we were just talking about
17:50what's going on in the world
17:52and what's going to happen
17:54in the future.
17:56So, I mean, we were just
17:58in a nutshell speaking about
18:00this particular case without going into any more
18:02details on what we
18:04know that transpired in the court and of course
18:06what the period of time
18:08it took investigators and of course
18:10the DPP before charges
18:12were laid 8 months after
18:14the
18:16remains of Hannah was found
18:18at this home.
18:20Yeah, and you know, just to continue Mark, you know,
18:22as I said before, because of the public importance and
18:25importance of this matter, we know it's sub judice, but I think
18:27for public knowledge, you know, when one
18:29looked at and you spoke about the
18:31months that, you know,
18:33were passed with reference to
18:35an arriving at this particular point,
18:37you know, to make any point that when the DPP
18:39sits to look at a matter for public knowledge
18:41and learning, that there's something called a full
18:43court test where he will look at the evidential
18:45test and he will look at the public interest test
18:47and the evidential test basically is
18:49to ensure that there's sufficient evidence to support
18:51whatever charge that has to be preferred.
18:53So, you know, when you see a lapse of 8 months
18:55it's not really a lapse to say, but
18:57remember we are, as a prosecution,
18:59you are being called upon to prove beyond a reasonable doubt
19:01when you're a charging person. So, it has to
19:03be a very
19:05careful step and, you know, last but
19:07not least, the public interest in this
19:09matter is not only with reference
19:11to seeing a criminal charge.
19:13The public interest will require
19:15a, what,
19:17a fair trial and perhaps
19:19a conviction on the evidence that we have.
19:21That is really where the public interest lies.
19:23So, it's important for us to recognize that
19:25and when we're speaking about the evidential
19:27test, you know, there are
19:29different pieces of evidence that one will want to look at.
19:31So, again, Trinidad and Tobago,
19:33we have reached this stage, you know,
19:35let us trust in the process.
19:37It is sub judice, but I thought it was important
19:39just to, you know, speak around it as to what
19:41may be the consideration when we have to determine
19:43whether we lay a criminal charge or not.
19:45But, again, condolences to the family
19:47and, you know, let us continue to
19:49make our contribution
19:51whether, in fact, persons are out there
19:53who may have other evidence, Mark,
19:55that the evidence gathering has not stopped
19:57after a criminal charge and I want to make
19:59that, you know, abundantly clear.
20:01Certainly, certainly there, Corporal Ali.
20:03We do have a caller on the line.
20:05Caller, good evening.
20:07Good evening, Mark. Good evening, Officer Ali.
20:09Pleasant good evening to you, ma'am.
20:11Yes. Officer Ali, I am
20:13so happy that you brought that back up
20:15because I remember asking you about that one time
20:17and asking you what it is
20:19and what they would have done
20:21and you explained it to me
20:23because it's really ridiculous
20:25because if the penalty is not increased
20:27they will continue to do that
20:29and they continue to do that because they feel
20:31they can't get away with it.
20:33Another thing, too, is when you catch them
20:35the length of time sometimes
20:37it takes anything to happen
20:39is that, you know,
20:41it's really sad, sad, sad.
20:43That's the first point.
20:45The business people now, you know,
20:47they had a meeting
20:49and they were saying
20:51it is either
20:53the police and the bandits
20:55doing the crime and he just wasn't worth talking
20:57and he said he doesn't want to say anymore
20:59because the next thing you know the police will be framing him up.
21:01You really have to have
21:03stiff penalties.
21:05That's my first point. My second point is
21:07concerning what happened with the
21:09real police officers.
21:11It's taken place and we're not going to
21:13talk about it, but my point is
21:15they make the police service
21:17look so terrible. You know how some people
21:19like to paint everybody with the same
21:21brush so they will make, you know,
21:23and they say,
21:25and they're painting everybody the same brush.
21:27But my question is, Officer
21:29Ali, something that
21:31happened like that with an officer
21:33the person who is the
21:35commissioner of police, whoever is the
21:37commissioner of police, could that
21:39person
21:41send away that person
21:43you know,
21:45could that person
21:47put them out of the service or they have to
21:49wait until the whole
21:51investigation takes place.
21:53Officer Ali, you see
21:55the real officers
21:57something has to be done about them
21:59because they're making people look bad
22:01and they're making people lose trust
22:03and afraid to do this and afraid to do that.
22:05My last point is
22:07I've seen where, I've heard here about
22:09scanners, scanners working, scanners not working
22:11on all sorts of things. And I've seen
22:13where they said that
22:15we're going to get some scanners and they're going to
22:17come and report and they're going to check this and check that
22:19in November or whatever. Now
22:21I am saying, what about those things that
22:23are coming in on the borders?
22:25How do we check those things? Because
22:27guns coming in and all sorts of things coming in
22:29too. So how are we going to
22:31get to check those?
22:33Because, you know, we really have
22:35to think hard
22:37and I heard the officer yesterday how he said they have certain
22:39plans, but the people have other plans
22:41too. You know, and I heard
22:43on another program where people say
22:45that the people who are fake
22:47officers, who they feel are fake officers
22:49went with the man
22:51how they are real officers
22:53so I don't know what is taking place.
22:55But we have to continue working
22:57we're not going to give up because
22:59Trinidad is not supposed to be like that.
23:01All the best to all of you, including Ms. Jackie.
23:03Thank you very much.
23:05The floor is yours.
23:07Thank you very much Kola and Kola
23:11very healthy submissions. Mark, let me deal with
23:13the last issue first. Sure.
23:15You know, we have spoken about
23:17the challenges with reference to
23:19our porous borders and I'm not going to go into
23:21any politics. I'm not going to
23:23look at it
23:25to say, well okay, we are going to
23:27point fingers at customs, TTPS
23:29I'm not going to do that. But what I'm going to say is that
23:31generally speaking that I think
23:33I'll use this platform as well and especially where
23:35the Deputy Commissioner Intelligence and Investigation
23:37is locked on
23:39and perhaps other executive officers
23:41I think that we need to invest more
23:43heavily in the area
23:45of transnational organized crime
23:47the transnational organized crime
23:49unit, I think that we sometime
23:51in my respective view
23:53you know, not intentionally
23:55but we do not appreciate
23:57the very important role that they have
23:59in relation to that whole issue of border protection
24:01Look at the name, transnational
24:03organized crime. So I just want to make
24:05that point where in addition to customs
24:07in addition to the
24:09Coast Guard, we need to now invest
24:11heavily in that transnational organized
24:13crime unit and probably do not only
24:15look at it as an intelligence gathering
24:17unit but look
24:19at it as a full-fledged unit that will also
24:21have deeply embedded in it
24:23investigations
24:25and also playing a
24:27major role in reference of our border protection
24:29That's the first point I want to make. Secondly Mark
24:31with reference to the rogue police
24:33officers. Now again
24:35the question was posed whether in fact
24:37we can get them out of the service. I know that
24:39there are different schools of thought and I just want to be
24:41careful in terms of whether in fact
24:43if there's an ongoing criminal investigation
24:45we have heard time and time again about the
24:47presumption of innocence
24:49until proven guilty and then on the other hand
24:51we heard that okay, maybe
24:53there are other matters that can now border
24:55on issues of indiscipline that we can
24:57move from a disciplinary context
24:59but where I would like to go is that in the
25:01regulations I have seen that
25:03there's a particular section
25:05and God knows Mark
25:07if the good Lord permits
25:09that I have the opportunity to give
25:11any advice or even be in a decision
25:13making position
25:15that particular section that talks about
25:17whether the officers should continue
25:19to be enjoying
25:21being a police officer
25:23in the public's interest. So in the public
25:25interest, in my view, if we stretch that out
25:27does the public interest
25:29suggest that those persons should remain
25:31in the police service? I think that we
25:33can look at that particular section
25:35but as I said before
25:37there are different schools of thought in terms of whether
25:39criminal and a disciplinary
25:41can move simultaneously
25:43so it's something that we need to look at
25:45but again, excellent area for
25:47reform. I just want to ask a question
25:49there as it relates
25:51to that. I know there are a number
25:53of police officers that are
25:55facing the courts, right?
25:57They're on suspension
25:59and the concerns have been raised in the past
26:01that
26:03although they are on suspension
26:05they're still being paid by taxpayers
26:07right? Is there
26:09something that perhaps
26:11you guys are going to be looking at in the future
26:13until the matter is
26:15resolved that they shouldn't be paid
26:17because technically you're still
26:19an officer but then you have this
26:21charge or charges hanging over your head
26:23and taxpayers still have to pay
26:25and I think that there was some contention
26:27a couple of weeks ago about that
26:29Well again Mark, when we are looking at
26:31these areas in reference to police officers
26:33who are charged and on suspension
26:35again a very significant area in terms of
26:37should the public be bearing that burden
26:39in reference to persons, again
26:41one may argue again the presumption of
26:43innocence but I just want to put one more
26:45issue into this particular discussion
26:47you know, could we
26:49answer in the affirmative that the
26:51conduct of the police officers
26:53those who are charged, so let's
26:55say for example that
26:57the matter turns out that they are not
26:59convicted. If you examine
27:01the conduct of the police, you'll realize that
27:03it may be sufficient that they may have
27:05brought the police service into disrepute
27:07so there are different limbs in my view
27:09under the regulations that we can
27:11still argue to try and take
27:13some actions against these police officers
27:15but I think it's an area that is
27:17ripe for reform or ripe for
27:19certainty as to how we
27:21should proceed with reference to these matters and
27:23I would want to humbly ask the executive
27:25to probably seek
27:27an opinion
27:29or maybe several opinions so that we can
27:31again, if we are talking public trust and
27:33confidence, that issue that you raised
27:35that it mustn't be something that continues to meander
27:37along months and years as to
27:39whether in fact we should continue to pay police officers
27:41who are charged and before the court or whether we should
27:43be moving swiftly with the
27:45uniform to say okay, you are charged with a
27:47criminal offence, this is the option that in law
27:49that the commissioner can take
27:51where you are concerned so I thought
27:53again another important area and finally Mark
27:55I think she raised one more issue. Stiffer penalties
27:57as you related to the regulations
27:59about officers
28:01people wearing, impersonating
28:03police officers and uniforms
28:05but we have to take a break. But she already
28:07supported that position. Yes.
28:09So we're going to take a short break and we'll be back. Stay with us.
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34:20www.tcpd.gov.tt
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34:26www.tcpd.gov.tt
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34:30www.tcpd.gov.tt
34:32www.tcpd.gov.tt
34:34www.tcpd.gov.tt
34:36www.tcpd.gov.tt
34:38www.tcpd.gov.tt
34:40www.tcpd.gov.tt
34:42www.tcpd.gov.tt
34:44www.tcpd.gov.tt
34:46www.tcpd.gov.tt
34:48www.tcpd.gov.tt
34:50www.tcpd.gov.tt
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34:58www.tcpd.gov.tt
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35:50www.tcpd.gov.tt
35:52www.tcpd.gov.tt
35:54www.tcpd.gov.tt
35:56www.tcpd.gov.tt
35:58www.tcpd.gov.tt
36:00www.tcpd.gov.tt
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37:00www.tcpd.gov.tt
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37:18www.tcpd.gov.tt
37:20www.tcpd.gov.tt
37:22www.tcpd.gov.tt
37:24www.tcpd.gov.tt
37:26www.tcpd.gov.tt
37:28www.tcpd.gov.tt
37:30www.tcpd.gov.tt
37:32www.tcpd.gov.tt
37:34www.tcpd.gov.tt
37:36www.tcpd.gov.tt
37:38www.tcpd.gov.tt
37:40www.tcpd.gov.tt
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37:44www.tcpd.gov.tt
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37:48www.tcpd.gov.tt
37:50www.tcpd.gov.tt
37:52www.tcpd.gov.tt
37:54www.tcpd.gov.tt
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37:58www.tcpd.gov.tt
38:00www.tcpd.gov.tt
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38:04www.tcpd.gov.tt
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45:35I don't know.
45:37Mark,
45:39thank you for
45:41showing that video.
45:43What I'll do,
45:45I'll conduct some checks with reference to that particular
45:47registration number, but what I want to say to members
45:49of the public, if you should be seeing that vehicle,
45:51please, you know, communicate
45:53that. Even if you want to use the
45:55555 system, or any
45:57of the anonymous avenues, you know, use that.
45:59Or if you feel strong to call a police station
46:01so that we can identify that
46:03vehicle, whether in fact it exists, and probably
46:05call some checks to be made. But
46:07definitely I'll call some checks to be made on the
46:09registration that has been displayed to see
46:11whether in fact it's in line with that
46:13particular vehicle. So I'll do some checks with that.
46:15Thank you for bringing that up. Certainly, we appreciate that.
46:17We do have a caller on the line.
46:19Caller, good evening.
46:21Ambassador, good evening.
46:23Two good experience
46:25individuals in their field.
46:29Go ahead. Mark, let me put it
46:31on to you.
46:35If you have a gentleman next to you,
46:37keep on repeating
46:39what we've been saying
46:41over the past few years.
46:43But we know because of his
46:45position, he has to be very protective.
46:47Let's make it very clear.
46:49Unless
46:51the Electoral College
46:53does not get together
46:55and take decisive action,
46:57these things that
46:59keep on putting and putting
47:01and putting and putting, nothing
47:03is going to happen.
47:05Mark, let me ask you directly a question.
47:07Do you think you would agree
47:09with the term KT?
47:11You comment?
47:13Sorry, Paul, I'm
47:15not clearly hearing you.
47:17I'm sorry.
47:19No matter
47:21what penalty
47:23they put against
47:25an issue,
47:27that is not a
47:29deterrent.
47:31Because
47:33firearm is murder
47:35and it's death.
47:37So you can have
47:39nothing more serious than
47:41death by hanging
47:43or whatever.
47:45No matter what about
47:47the real penalty, it's not good enough.
47:49Unless the Electoral
47:51College does get
47:53together and do the work,
47:55KT, you comment?
47:59Go ahead, Mark.
48:01I know you posed a question to me
48:03but I certainly did not hear
48:05the entire question.
48:07Unfortunately, it was in and out.
48:09So I know you were able
48:11to hear more of the question
48:13directed to you, so I'll let you answer.
48:15Mark, I'll be very brief.
48:17The caller is quite right
48:19in terms of my response.
48:21I have to be careful in terms of how I respond.
48:23But a member of the
48:25wider society, exercising
48:27his freedom of expression, seems to
48:29have gone beyond
48:31looking at
48:33severe sanctions
48:35to be able to cause a deterrent. And he has actually
48:37taken it into the Electoral College.
48:39And from the little that I
48:41know, that's
48:43a body that is responsible
48:45for appointments. So I'll leave it there.
48:47We have heard members of the public, and
48:49again, they have
48:51their opportunity as well
48:53to share their perspectives. So I'll go no further.
48:55But caller, we respect your view as well.
48:57And I just want to pose this question
48:59as we get to the break here.
49:01ACP
49:03Simon spoke yesterday
49:05and we're going back to that issue of
49:07police vehicles.
49:09And he spoke about
49:11they're in the process
49:13of putting in place
49:15a system
49:17for bona fide police
49:19vehicles, and so on.
49:21And I want you to just think about
49:23this as we go to the break.
49:25What should an
49:27individual do in the dead of the night
49:29if they are
49:31not certain, of course,
49:33that the vehicle that they're being stopped
49:35by, it might be a marked
49:37police vehicle, but they're not entirely certain.
49:39Or it might be an unmarked police
49:41vehicle with flashing blue lights
49:43on the dashboard
49:45or even at the top.
49:47And I just want you to think about
49:49what are some of the guidelines or advice
49:51you would give to people, citizens
49:53rather, how to react
49:55to that situation if they feel uncomfortable
49:57and
49:59also not putting themselves
50:01in harm's way because there have been
50:03occasions where
50:05there is an APB out on a particular
50:07car and make and model
50:09and that vehicle might
50:11fit that description.
50:13I just want you to kind of
50:15think about it as we go to the short break.
50:17We'll be back after this.
50:45Perfect.
50:51That's exactly what we need.
50:57Whatever you're
50:59here for, we're here for you.
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51:45Today we're talking about
51:47recognition of a seriously ill
51:49child. How do you know when your child is
51:51ill? So you're looking actually,
51:53looking to see their pale
51:55overall, their general appearance, their pale,
51:57their a bit grey, that
51:59tells you, or cogwood, the usual term we
52:01use, or their activity.
52:03Are they drowsy or are they irritable?
52:05The next thing, are they breathing
52:07faster or breathing slower?
52:09And then heart rate, check
52:11just right here for the heart rate or check
52:13the pulse. If it's too high or
52:15too low, those are signs.
52:17But generally, follow your
52:19instincts. If you think
52:21something is wrong, something is wrong.
52:23We'll get checked out. Thank you very
52:25much. Thanks for listening.
52:39Welcome back to Beyond The Tape. I'm your host Mark Bassant. Of course joined today by Corporal Zaheer Ali, legally speaking Wednesdays. And we were talking about, you know, if a police vehicle stops you in the dead of the night or is attempting to stop you and you're not
53:07certain whether or not it's a police
53:09vehicle, what you should or shouldn't do.
53:11So I just want to direct that question back
53:13to you. Now Mark, I know as
53:15you indicated that senior officers
53:17has indicated that they are looking,
53:19the executives are looking at this particular issue
53:21and I'd just like
53:23to just share two perspectives because I am aware
53:25that one of the executive officers are looking on.
53:27You know, I'll use this opportunity.
53:29Perhaps what we may want to be thinking
53:31is, okay, that may be
53:33an instruction that no
53:35unmarked vehicle. No
53:37unmarked vehicle
53:39is allowed to intercept.
53:41In other words, let us call a marked
53:43vehicle. So we cannot cure it 100%,
53:45but at least try to minimize. So
53:47if you're not certain about
53:49a unmarked, our instruction
53:51probably should be along the lines of where
53:53we're using a marked vehicle to intercept. Unless
53:55it's a situation where there's a life
53:57and death situation. Maybe a kidnapped victim moving
53:59and we do have the luxury
54:01to rely on a marked vehicle. So I'm just giving
54:03a subtle suggestion. Secondly,
54:05and this is in relation to,
54:07like, for example, when police is visiting homes
54:09and business places, perhaps maybe the
54:11time has come to ensure that there's an
54:13inspector dressed
54:15in khaki who is present on that
54:17operation. So that if we are saying that,
54:19for example, the
54:21operational arms, the second division
54:23officers, the blue and gray or the
54:25blue and black as the case may be,
54:27maybe the time has come to ensure that in the
54:29interim that we have an inspector
54:31on every operation that is going where
54:33maybe an execution of a search warrant at someone's home
54:35or maybe visiting of a business place.
54:37Probably we may have to think like that because
54:39of the particular situation. So that
54:41if you've not seen a khaki, it may
54:43be a red flag. So I'm just, two subtle things.
54:45One for home and one on
54:47the road maybe looking at not having
54:49unmarked vehicles, whether they have the
54:51blue lights or not. Not having
54:53unmarked vehicles, intercept vehicles on the roadway.
54:55Use marked vehicles to intercept those
54:57persons. Probably things we could try to look at,
54:59but you know, I wouldn't want to run too deep into
55:01what the executive may be thinking, but because you
55:03asked the question and it's of
55:05public interest and more importantly,
55:07I know that the DCP is looking on. So I use
55:09the opportunity, perhaps through her, it reaches
55:11the appropriate offices. And we
55:13just want to go back to that video
55:15with the police vehicle quickly.
55:17And I do believe
55:19Coppola, you have some information as
55:21it relates to that police vehicle. Yeah.
55:23So Mark, you know, I give it on a take and a while I go to
55:25you and members of the public. So at this time,
55:27the interim information is that the vehicle
55:29is in fact registered under
55:31the Ministry of National Security, Trinidad and
55:33Tobago, and the make and model is
55:35corresponding with what we're seeing there. So
55:37we will just confirm whether in fact it's a
55:39marked or unmarked vehicle, but
55:41the information that we're getting,
55:43there's some legitimacy where the vehicle is concerned.
55:45So I thought it was important not to leave the
55:47public mark because you raised it.
55:49Next thing you know, that vehicle is coming into contact with persons
55:51and they may be suspicious. I have to
55:53just alleviate the fear, at least in the
55:55If there's any further information, I'll
55:57communicate through the DCP so that you can get information
55:59for public release.
56:01And that's what we're exactly
56:03talking about as we wrap up here.
56:05The public confidence has waned in
56:07the last couple of weeks with all
56:09these states of
56:11police vehicle being used and
56:13alleged murder, kidnapping,
56:15or people wearing what is
56:17seemingly police uniforms using
56:19unmarked police or allegedly
56:21unmarked police vehicles with strobe lights and so on.
56:23And I think that is why
56:25now members of the public are questioning
56:27certain vehicles when they see it.
56:29And in this instance, a gentleman on
56:31social media, and we thought it was very
56:33prudent to obviously get
56:35some feedback from you. Well, Mark, I want to thank
56:37you for bringing that to us because we're speaking
56:39public trust and confidence and I couldn't leave here
56:41without at least making some
56:43interim checks. If it turns out
56:45that is not, well then we will correct.
56:47But immediately, because as I said before,
56:49if it's on the roads of Trinidad and Tobago, it may
56:51be visiting persons' premises,
56:53it may be coming into contact with persons
56:55and I want to ensure that there is no
56:57fear in relation to members of the public.
56:59So at this stage, it is corresponding
57:01with the make and model. We will just distinguish whether
57:03it's a mark or an unmarked vehicle,
57:05but the legitimacy, you know, it's there.
57:07I understand that we are
57:09closing now, Mark, so I want to again, I
57:11thought this afternoon, members of the public, thank you
57:13all very much for your submissions. Very strong.
57:15And Mark, I just want to reinforce,
57:17if it's a societal response,
57:19other institutions must get involved.
57:21And as I spoke about the
57:23increasing the sanctions and the
57:25penalties, with reference to the
57:27uniform, revisit our section.
57:29We spoke about looking at persons who are
57:31charged and continue to enjoy half pay,
57:33two-thirds pay. It's an area that we need to look at
57:35for reform if we're building trust and confidence.
57:37But generally, I think, excellent afternoon.
57:39All right. We wrapped it up
57:41all in a nutshell in less than
57:4330 seconds. We certainly want to thank
57:45you, viewers. Remember, repeat
57:47tonight at 11.30.
57:49We run tomorrow at 11 a.m.
57:51The TV section is up next.
57:53Stay with us.
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