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00:00This program contains graphic scenes, viewer discretion is advised.
00:30Beyond the Tape will be back after these messages.
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03:32Welcome, Trinidad and Tobago, and of course, our viewers across the world.
03:47Today is Wednesday. It's Legally Speaking Wednesdays.
03:51Of course, today is also World Children's Day,
03:55right smack in the middle of Legally Speaking Wednesdays.
03:59Today, of course, we are joined by a trainee at law with the TGPS, Corporal Zahir Ali.
04:05Welcome, sir.
04:06Well, good evening to you, Mark.
04:07Let me take this opportunity immediately, because you're closest to me,
04:10to wish you a belated International Men's Day.
04:15I think you are deserving of it, and I think it's important to wish you that belated International Men's Day.
04:23To extend all the men in Trinidad and Tobago, and also to extend it from international context.
04:31But good evening to Trinidad and Tobago.
04:33Good evening to Jackie and other colleagues in Beyond the Tape,
04:37to my colleagues in the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.
04:40It's indeed our non-privilege to be here, Mark, as always, to share this platform with you.
04:47With the hope and expectation that we can continue to share perspective and, in return, receive perspective from members of the public.
04:55I want to say this opportunity as well, Mark.
04:57Today is also a very important day, celebrating International Children's Day.
05:04And I want to link both my simple message this afternoon to Trinidad and Tobago and all of us.
05:11From a men's perspective, one of the best things that you can do is to leave a righteous child.
05:18And even if you are a legal guardian, play your role in leaving a righteous child.
05:23What you're actually doing there is ensuring that there is proper continuity when we speak in relation to our society.
05:30And why I'm linking it to Children's Day as well is that if we are speaking about leaving a righteous child,
05:38it will now call upon us to ensure that we make a necessary investment to ensure that those children that are around us,
05:44those beautiful children that we are blessed with, that we ensure that they are shaped to become righteous persons
05:51who will be proud and can impact society in a positive way.
05:55So I thought it was important to open this afternoon with that, Mark.
05:58I know that there's a lot happening and that continues to happen in Trinidad and Tobago,
06:02and especially where the TTPS continues to be under the radar, under the headlines.
06:06And I look forward to sharing this platform with you this afternoon.
06:08Yeah, and the Commissioner of Police, Christopher Woodavolo, also sent out a message
06:16saying that this day is dedicated to championing the rights, welfare, and future of children worldwide.
06:23This year's observance underscores our shared responsibility to protect and empower our youngest citizens,
06:29ensuring they grow in a safe, nurturing environment that allows them to thrive.
06:35So certainly, as you say, children are the foundation and the future of tomorrow.
06:40And their actions are shaped, obviously, by what they also see around them
06:45and by what they perceive from others, especially looking up to adults and so on.
06:51So it's extremely important that we set a good example for children.
06:55And Mark, just to endorse what you have said in terms of looking at that environmental impact
06:59from a sociological context, from a psychological context,
07:03it's very critical to ensure that our children are in the appropriate environment,
07:06whether it be starting with the home and then moving out to schools and in the general community.
07:10So it's important for us to understand. Let us respond.
07:13This day is just a day to highlight it, but it should be every single day
07:17that we should ensure that we focus on leaving a righteous child or investing in a child
07:22to ensure that child is a righteous child and continue to make a positive contribution.
07:26Mark is also important as well when we're speaking about this issue of children.
07:31Sometimes he seems to ground it 18 and under.
07:35But if you look at it really in a deep context, all of us were children.
07:41And I can speak for myself. I'm sure that my mother, I'm sure she's looking on,
07:47and I'm also a child in her eyes.
07:49So really and truly, when we're speaking about children, we have to look at it in different contexts
07:53and ensure that we continue to recognize that the important role that we have,
08:02regardless of someone maybe over 18, as a parent, you may still be able to tell that individual,
08:07listen, I don't like what I'm seeing. Come, let me speak with you.
08:11And that's what a counseling and dialogue continues to be of importance
08:15in a society that we live in, in Trinidad and Tobago.
08:19And of course, there's other pressing matters.
08:22And we will obviously get to involving the latest court matter
08:26where five police officers were discharged earlier today at the courts, high courts,
08:34involving misbehavior in public office.
08:36And you know that it was because of certain procedural errors
08:40and the state not being fulfilling the directors of the court.
08:44And there was a similar situation, of course, two days ago in the court
08:48where also the state would have failed to submit the file to the DPP for a state attorney
08:54to be also assigned to that matter, which also left the master with no other choice
09:01but to also, in this case, dismiss the charges against these seven other officers.
09:06And we're certainly going to talk about that a lot more in the second segment of this program.
09:11So we're going to go now to our headlines.
09:41Everybody move right here!
09:50So those are some of the headlines within the last 24 hours.
09:53We can also tell you that I believe it was earlier this evening,
09:58somewhere in the area of Gonzales and Belmont, a person was shot and killed,
10:03identified as Christopher Timothy, as far as we understand, from the police.
10:10And what we can also let you know as an update was that another person was charged yesterday
10:17with the murder of police officer Sheldon Peterson, who was shot and killed
10:23in front of a grocery in Olton Road in Arima.
10:27I believe it was on October 20th or 21st last month.
10:32And that person appeared today in court to answer that charge of murder.
10:40So, you have approximately 554 officers.
10:44A little bit concerning, of course.
10:46I mean, a lot concerning, because one life is too much.
10:50Yeah, definitely, Mark.
10:52Placing the lens on the statistics now is very daunting.
10:57And it's important for us for the remainder of the year.
11:00We have just over a month before the end of the year.
11:03And it's important still that we continue to police and look for improvement.
11:08Not because we are 550 odd.
11:10It's already, as I said, a daunting task.
11:12But it's important for us to not throw our hands into the air
11:16and ensure that we take the steps that are required,
11:19whether it be an administrative step, whether it be a legislative step,
11:22whether it be an operational step.
11:24We need to be taking these steps to ensure that at least we are making improvements
11:28and making improvements in a timely manner.
11:30So, I urge not only the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service,
11:35but the society at large to ensure that we all have a major role to play in our little way
11:40to ensure that we pull back and at least suppress the statistics
11:45regards murders and other serious crimes in Trinidad and Tobago.
11:49We just want to change gears a bit here.
11:52Earlier this morning, there was a fire at the Malik Secondary School.
11:57The images, early this morning, I think mid-morning it was.
12:02And luckily, of course, I understand that all the students, the teachers,
12:06and all the other personnel who was at that school were evacuated.
12:10I'm told, based on the information provided by fire officers,
12:16that the blaze emanated somewhere in the IT area.
12:21They're not certain, of course, of what may have yet triggered the fire.
12:26But you can see thick smoke bellowing out there from a specific area.
12:30I think at least three, and there's the fire there, licking away at the roof there.
12:36At least three buildings, I understand, was damaged during this fire here.
12:42But again, it was lucky that nobody was harmed.
12:47They were able to evacuate the compound safely and securely
12:52while the fire officers did what they needed to do.
12:55And it's important, Mark, when you're seeing especially the significance of this particular matter
12:59that you have just highlighted, it's important for a diligent inquiry to be done as well
13:03in conjunction with the TTPS to ensure that there's no aspect of arson
13:08and other matters that may come within the criminal law.
13:11So it's important for us to have, as always, very diligent and comprehensive investigations
13:17involving the relevant parties in these sort of matters as well.
13:21And I guess if you listen to one of the senior fire officers who was on that scene
13:25and would have spoken to the media following the ability to contain the fire.
13:52Proper inference could be given.
13:54Fully evacuated all the students from the school compound.
13:58And we are still present.
14:02Confirmed that we have no persons reported.
14:05And in this case, anybody missing or unaccounted for.
14:08Process would be that the Ministry of Education have what they are required to do.
14:12Fire service, we have our limit, what we are required to do.
14:15However, there will be collaboration.
14:18Because, of course, we have to speak to teachers.
14:20We will have to talk to students.
14:22There will be some interview process that will take place.
14:24And, of course, we can talk to the Ministry.
14:27We'll have to inform parents.
14:29There are no children who may have seen, who may have been in the area.
14:32So a process is going to be followed where there's going to be a collaboration
14:35between the Children and Tobago Fire Service and the Ministry of Education
14:39to get to the bottom of what has transpired here today.
14:43Right, so he's verifying, of course, they have to do due diligence.
14:46In this fire, they will have to speak to a number of people, the students, teachers, etc.
14:51And, of course, you know, as he said, you can't take anything for granted now.
14:56So the proper investigative work would be done by the fire officials there.
15:01And the Ministry of Education also had sent out a release
15:05indicating that students, teachers, and all those personnel that was on that compound got out safely.
15:13We're going to take a short break and we'll be back. Stay with us.
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20:40and enforcement of that matrix to be able to deal with discipline.
20:43And why I think that we need to revisit that immediately, Mark.
20:46It operates on a tier system, like on a first instance arm account in a particular state
20:52of affairs, it requires particular actions to be taken.
20:55But I'm saying in the time that we are living and when violence are escalating, I think
20:59it's important for us to revisit that matrix to ensure that it effectively treats school
21:04violence because you may well find, if you are investigating this matter, the persons
21:09who may be the perpetrators, who were involved in the fight, you may have seen early signs
21:13that they may have been exhibited with reference to, and where this sort of activities may
21:18have been anticipated and maybe little or nothing may have been done.
21:22Additionally, with that particular matrix, where the parents, with reference to that
21:27particular matrix, and holding parents responsible with reference to that matrix.
21:31So I just had a quick look at it and I think that it's important for us to revisit that.
21:36I saw many different stakeholders are placing their lens on this issue of school.
21:40I saw recently that there's a move by the opposition to lay, if I get it correct, a
21:50motion with reference to looking at how we are treating with bullying and issues of school
21:56in a more significant way.
21:58So we know that other stakeholders have spoken about the issue of national security, the
22:02TTPS, the Children's Authority.
22:04So I think the time has come where that document, which basically directs how indiscipline,
22:10how school violence, how offences in the school system should be treated, I think it's important
22:14for us to revisit that in a consultation with other stakeholders to ensure that we have
22:18the most effective document to be able to get, most importantly, the help for those
22:23children and if the situation requires punitive measures, then we proceed accordingly.
22:29But I think we need to look at that matrix as it presently exists in our Ministry of Education.
22:34I wouldn't say more than that.
22:36You have said it all in reference to that and we've been having these conversations
22:40for quite a while now.
22:42I think we have a call on the line.
22:44Caller, good evening.
22:45Caller?
22:46Good evening, sir.
22:47I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
22:48they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
22:49not going to do anything.
22:50I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
22:51they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
22:52not going to do anything.
22:53I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
22:55they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
22:56not going to do anything.
22:57I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
22:58they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
22:59not going to do anything.
23:00I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
23:01they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
23:02not going to do anything.
23:03I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
23:04they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
23:05not going to do anything.
23:06I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
23:07they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
23:08not going to do anything.
23:09I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
23:10they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
23:11not going to do anything.
23:12I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
23:13they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
23:14not going to do anything.
23:15I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
23:16they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
23:17not going to do anything.
23:18I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
23:19they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
23:20not going to do anything.
23:21I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
23:22they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
23:23not going to do anything.
23:24I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
23:25they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
23:26not going to do anything.
23:27I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
23:28they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
23:42not going to do anything.
23:43I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
23:44they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
23:45not going to do anything.
23:46I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
23:47they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
23:48not going to do anything.
23:49I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
23:50they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
23:51not going to do anything.
23:52I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
23:53they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
23:54not going to do anything.
23:55I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
23:56they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
23:57not going to do anything.
23:58I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
23:59they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
24:00not going to do anything.
24:01I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
24:02they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
24:03not going to do anything.
24:33I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
24:35they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
24:36not going to do anything.
24:37I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
24:38they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
24:39not going to do anything.
24:40I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
24:41they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
24:42not going to do anything.
24:43I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
24:44they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
24:45not going to do anything.
24:46I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
24:47they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
24:48not going to do anything.
24:49I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
24:50they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
24:51not going to do anything.
24:52I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
24:53they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
24:54not going to do anything.
24:55I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
24:56they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
25:10not going to do anything.
25:11I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
25:12they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
25:13not going to do anything.
25:14I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
25:15they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
25:16not going to do anything.
25:17I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
25:18they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
25:19not going to do anything.
25:20I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
25:21they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
25:22not going to do anything.
25:23I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
25:24they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
25:25not going to do anything.
25:26I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
25:27they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
25:28not going to do anything.
25:29I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
25:30they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
25:31not going to do anything.
25:32I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
25:33they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
25:34not going to do anything.
25:35I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
25:36they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
25:37not going to do anything.
25:38I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
25:39they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
25:40not going to do anything.
25:41I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
25:42they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
25:56not going to do anything.
25:57I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
25:58they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
25:59not going to do anything.
26:00I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
26:01they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
26:02not going to do anything.
26:03I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
26:04they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
26:05not going to do anything.
26:06I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
26:07they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
26:08not going to do anything.
26:09I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
26:10they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
26:11not going to do anything.
26:12I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
26:13they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
26:14not going to do anything.
26:15I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
26:16they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
26:17not going to do anything.
26:18I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
26:19they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
26:20not going to do anything.
26:21I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
26:22they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
26:23not going to do anything.
26:24I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
26:25they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
26:26not going to do anything.
26:27I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
26:28they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
26:52not going to do anything.
27:18I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
27:47they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
27:48not going to do anything.
27:49I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
27:50they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
27:51not going to do anything.
27:52I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
27:53they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
27:54not going to do anything.
27:55I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
27:56they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
27:57not going to do anything.
27:58I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
28:10they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
28:20not going to do anything.
28:21I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
28:22they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
28:23not going to do anything.
28:24I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
28:25they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
28:26not going to do anything.
28:27I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
28:28they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
28:29not going to do anything.
28:30I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
28:31they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
28:32not going to do anything.
28:33I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
28:34they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
28:35not going to do anything.
28:36I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
28:37they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
28:38not going to do anything.
28:39I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
28:40they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
28:41not going to do anything.
28:42I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
28:54they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
29:11not going to do anything.
29:12I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
29:13they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
29:14not going to do anything.
29:15I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
29:16they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
29:17not going to do anything.
29:18I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
29:19they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
29:20not going to do anything.
29:21I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
29:22they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
29:23not going to do anything.
29:24I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
29:25they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
29:26not going to do anything.
29:27I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
29:28they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
29:29not going to do anything.
29:30I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
29:31they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
29:32not going to do anything.
29:33I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
29:52they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
29:53not going to do anything.
29:54I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
29:55they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
29:56not going to do anything.
29:57I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
29:58they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know, they are
29:59not going to do anything.
30:00I want to believe that should all these robberies, murders, kidnappings come to an end, or if
30:01they are big, then you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying
30:03this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why
30:04I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you
30:05know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
30:06you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
30:07you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
30:08you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
30:09you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
30:10you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
30:11you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
30:22you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
30:34you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
30:40you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
30:44you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
30:48you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
30:51you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
30:52you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
30:53you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
30:54you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
30:55you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
30:56you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
30:57you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
30:58you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
30:59you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
31:00you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
31:01you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
31:02you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
31:03you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
31:14you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
31:20you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
31:21you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
31:22you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
31:23you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
31:24you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
31:25you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
31:26you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
31:27you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
31:28you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
31:29you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
31:30you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
31:31you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
31:32you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
31:33you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
31:34you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
31:45you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
31:57you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
32:03you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
32:07you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
32:11you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
32:15you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
32:17you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
32:18you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
32:19you know why I'm saying this is because, police, you know why I'm saying this is because, police,
32:20Good day, this is Terence Yalsing, Minister of Health of Trinidad and Tobago.
32:24As you may know, after COVID and in the aftermath of COVID-19, the issue of mental health has become a major problem or issue for people.
32:36We at the Ministry of Health recognize that.
32:39And we want to tell you, if you are suffering, if you have any mental health issue that you need help for,
32:48we are here to help you.
32:51We have a range of services and toll-free hotlines, some available 24 hours a day,
32:59for anything from suicide prevention to depression or any mental health issue that you feel you may have.
33:09We ask you to reach out to us.
33:12Our numbers are on our website and we are there for you.
33:17You don't have to travel this journey alone.
33:21We are here to partner with you, to bring relief to you.
33:25Use our services.
33:27Again, Terence Yalsing, Minister of Health, Trinidad and Tobago.
33:33Right, a message there from the Minister of Health, of course.
33:37We look at that in the context of assisting in the fight against crime,
33:42because, as my producer pointed out, mental health can push people to engage in acts of crime.
33:49And Mark just expounded on it a little bit.
33:51Some time ago, we had a major conference, a regional conference in Trinidad and Tobago,
33:56where the Honorable Prime Minister of Trinidad and Tobago would have described
34:01or look at the approach of looking at crime as a public health issue.
34:05And you were so right when you were looking at public health issues in the context of mental health.
34:08And I want to acknowledge the Honorable Minister of Health with reference to,
34:12I recall distinctively when I was involved in my international law studies,
34:16that right to health, but most importantly as well, the access to the right to health.
34:22It's very important.
34:23There's two concepts, two principles.
34:25And while I acknowledge the efforts of the Ministry of Health,
34:30I would like to humbly suggest to them that the mental health officers,
34:34I think that we should probably extend it to ensure that the mental health officers
34:37are actually going out into the communities in a deeper way, in a more effective engagement,
34:43as opposed to just offering a line to communicate,
34:46because some may not have the opportunity, if we're speaking mental health.
34:49Could you imagine that someone who is facing mental health issues,
34:52they're going to communicate via cellular phone, asking for help?
34:56I think it's important for us as well to extend,
34:58when we're looking at the access that we direct our mental health officers
35:02to move into those communities and seek out those persons who may need help.
35:07So a proactive way of dealing with it, but excellent response,
35:10because coming out of COVID, Mark, we know there was a lot of comments,
35:14a lot of commentary in relation to that particular period
35:16would have placed persons in a particular state of mind.
35:19And it's important for us to continue to reflect on that
35:22and ensure that we invest heavily in mental health.
35:24Not too long ago, we saw someone who we believe was a police officer,
35:30masquerading the road, behaving in a manner that suggests that
35:34he probably required some medical intervention.
35:39And it's important for us to look at these things.
35:41And I must indicate that in the TTPS, Mark,
35:44there is a pillar that speaks to mental health,
35:48and we speak about it as health and wellness.
35:50And I'm sure that other institutions are looking at it similarly.
35:53So a very big area.
35:54They say, you know, there's a saying, Mark,
35:56that if you're mentally strong but physically tired,
35:59you may still get the job done.
36:00But if you are physically strong but mentally down,
36:04you may not be able to function.
36:06So mental health, extremely important.
36:08And, you know, medical doctors have said it's a very thin line, Mark,
36:11to move from sane to insane.
36:13So, again, a very important area for us to look at.
36:16Yeah, as we talk about diminishing of education,
36:18we speak about teachers having to kind of expand
36:21because a teacher is literally a parent
36:24when they're looking after so many children during the school hours.
36:27Yes.
36:28And their forte has to extend beyond being just a teacher.
36:32Yes.
36:33And they also have to have a mental fortitude
36:36to deal with these different personalities, different people,
36:40the stress of the job, you know,
36:42and then they have these added things now with, you know,
36:45school violence and gang warfare and bullying
36:49and all these things, a period of things, of course,
36:51that they have to deal with.
36:53And, by extension, students also have this mental pressure.
36:56Of course.
36:57And, you know, when we recently saw gangs in their violent conflict
37:01in the vicinity of schools,
37:03that also, from a consequential perspective,
37:05putting teachers, principals, parents, even students,
37:08you know, in a state of worry.
37:10And only, you know, that individual or that group will know
37:13the extent in which they have been affected.
37:15So, again, excellent initiative.
37:17We're asking for, you know, that deeper engagement
37:20with members of the community
37:22so that we are visiting the community
37:24to seek all those persons who are in need of care and protection
37:26or help, as the case may be.
37:28All right.
37:29On that note, we're going to take a break and we'll be back.
37:31Stay with us.
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39:29Join us on iSports on i95.5 FM to find out more.
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40:07Welcome back to Beyond the Tape.
40:10I'm your host, Mark Besant.
40:12Joined today by Attorney at Law,
40:14Corporal Zahir Ali of the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.
40:18I'm certainly going to put him on the hot seat
40:20with the latest involving two matters.
40:24One was at the court, I believe on Monday,
40:28where seven police officers had their matters were discharged,
40:34right, before the court.
40:36And they were saying because the state
40:39did not follow proper procedure,
40:41they did not submit a file to the DPP's office
40:44so that they can have a state attorney assigned to that matter.
40:48And in so doing, of course,
40:50the charges of misbehaviour in public office
40:53stemming from an alleged extortion matter in San Miguel
40:57in 2023, these officers walked.
41:00And just today as well,
41:03a similar situation involving five police officers
41:07before the same master, De Silva,
41:10involving misbehaviour in public office.
41:13And I don't want to misquote.
41:15Basically, these officers were charged with a similar offence
41:18and they were allowed to walk free.
41:20The officers were accused of accepting a $30,000 bribe
41:25to hold the prosecution of a businessman.
41:27And during the sufficiency hearing,
41:29Master De Silva dismissed the charges against the officers.
41:34This came following repeated non-compliance
41:37by the prosecution regarding orders given by the court
41:41that had to be followed before the cases could proceed to trial.
41:45Now, the first matter that occurred on Monday
41:49in which the seven officers had their matter discharged,
41:53the commissioner would have sent us a message
41:56this afternoon via WhatsApp indicating,
41:59and I quote here, she told us that
42:01she has requested a report on the matter
42:04and she's now presently reviewing that particular report.
42:09And when she's finished reviewing the report,
42:11she will then make a statement in due course as it relates to that.
42:15And, of course, when you look at everything
42:19in full perspective, Corporal Alley,
42:23you look at things that are supposed to be done by the police
42:27or the prosecution and these matters,
42:29and some people will be looking on from the outside,
42:32at least the civilians, and saying,
42:34you know, if it was an ordinary civilian, would I get a house in order?
42:37But we're seeing two matters back-to-back
42:40where police officers have now walked free
42:42without proper procedure being followed in the court
42:44to get to that hearing.
42:47Well, Mark, a very significant,
42:50I shouldn't say matter, based on your reporting,
42:52very significant matters, very sensitive matters,
42:55and matters of public interest.
42:57You have quite accurately represented
43:01that the commissioner has made a statement on the matter.
43:05At this time, I have not received any instructions,
43:08but I need to be careful just in case that, you know,
43:10I'm called upon to advise or direct
43:12with reference to these two matters.
43:14But because of the significance of this matter
43:16and the opportunity for public perception
43:19and, you know, rightly so, I think it's important
43:21when we are speaking about, you know,
43:23Legally Speaking Wednesday
43:25and, you know, that legal consciousness and awareness,
43:28I think it's important to highlight some things
43:30from members of the public so that maybe we can, you know,
43:32look at it, you know, in a more mature manner.
43:35In this particular scenario, Mark,
43:37and looking at it from a judicial context,
43:39from a prosecutor, from a TTPS context,
43:42in the criminal justice system that we have,
43:45just about a year ago, there was the introduction
43:47of the Administration of Justice Indictable Proceedings Act
43:50that was supplemented
43:52by the Criminal Procedure Rules for 2023.
43:54In summary, it created
43:56or it paved the way for expeditious proceedings.
43:59Yes.
44:00And if you want expeditious proceedings
44:01and effective case management,
44:03it calls upon the judicial officer to ensure
44:05that they manage those cases effectively.
44:07But you talk about management of cases,
44:09and in this particular matter this afternoon,
44:12they said that...
44:14the master is saying that on a number of previous occasions...
44:17Yes.
44:18...the master had granted extensions in time
44:20for the prosecution to correct its procedural errors.
44:23And we're talking about having things done
44:25in a timely manner, in a timely fashion, sorry.
44:28Why is it then that the state hasn't been able
44:30to get their house in order?
44:32Well, again, Mark, a great question,
44:33and I think that the report that, you know,
44:35is presently before the Commissioner will be...
44:38she will be in the best position for an explanation
44:41as to what really transpired, you know.
44:43But at this stage, I'm just giving it in the context where,
44:45you know, we need expeditious hearing,
44:47you need effective case management,
44:49the judicial officer is going to exercise discretion,
44:51going to be given direction, going to be issued in court
44:53or any context of a scheduling order
44:55to ensure that there's...
44:57there are things that are done within a time frame.
44:59And that will call for, Mark,
45:01a duty and responsibility on the prosecution,
45:03slash TTPS, to be able to do things
45:05in a particular time frame.
45:07Vice versa, the defence will also have an obligation.
45:10And importantly, I want to leave with members of the public
45:13that you have what they call an overriding objective
45:16in the criminal procedure rules,
45:18which calls for dealing with cases justly.
45:20And dealing with cases justly
45:22must be looked at in the context of both parties,
45:24both the accused, and in this case,
45:26both the police officers, and also the prosecution.
45:29So the overriding objective is to deal with the cases justly.
45:32And when a master issue a scheduling order,
45:36and you have just alerted me to the report
45:39where it appeared that there were several directions given
45:42in order to do particular things at a particular time.
45:45And based on your reporting,
45:47you have alerted me that those matters were not complied with.
45:52Up to today?
45:54Which obviously forced the hand of the masters
45:56to just discharge the matter, I should say.
45:59That's correct.
46:01So I'm just saying in the context, from a legal context,
46:03this is how the criminal justice system,
46:05and by extension, the rules and the law,
46:07puts different parties under different obligations.
46:10The final thing I'd like to say in relation to that matter, Mark,
46:12is that that scheduling order, based on how the law is designed,
46:17when a scheduling order is issued by the master,
46:19it's normally served on the accused or his attorney,
46:22and it's also served on the prosecutor.
46:24I think that's an important area that we need to look at
46:26in terms of who is having notice of the scheduling order
46:30and who has the responsibility
46:32to ensure that they act and supervise
46:35the compliance of that scheduling order.
46:37So at this stage, I would not say more,
46:40because I've not received instructions,
46:41and I don't know whether, in fact,
46:43I would, in fact, receive instructions to advise and direct this matter,
46:46but I think it was important to give the legal context
46:48as to the obligations on different parties,
46:51the duty upon the master to ensure that the matter is dealt with justly,
46:55so that you are balancing the rights of the accused,
46:58and also ensuring that the prosecution is afforded reasonable time
47:02to be able to move the inquiry.
47:04So it's a very interesting matter,
47:06and let's see the directions and instructions
47:09that the Commissioner of Police and, by extension,
47:11High Executive will take in this matter.
47:13Yeah, because as you said,
47:14they have to return the report that is factored in from the court,
47:18as well as the report that would have been done
47:20by the Professional Standards Bureau,
47:23and if you don't know what the Professional Standards Bureau is,
47:25they are a division within the TTPS
47:28that usually would investigate matters
47:30concerning police officers' misbehaviour in public office
47:33and any other criminal charges, yes?
47:36Yes, of course.
47:37And Mark may just finally say that, you know,
47:39when I hear the outcry, you know,
47:41looking at the media reporting and persons commenting on it,
47:43you know, rightly so,
47:45where when you're looking at a prosecution,
47:47a prosecution is done on behalf of the public.
47:50It's a public, a very serious public interest matter.
47:53So, you know, I respect the position and opinions
47:55of members of the public in terms of how they felt, you know,
47:58when they heard about the matter being discharged,
48:00but I think it's important for, as a TTPS,
48:03for us to respond effectively to ensure
48:05that there's full transparency and accountability
48:08and to ensure, most importantly,
48:09that we pave the way to avoid a repeat of these matters,
48:13and we already saw today that there's a matter.
48:15Agreed, and before we go to the break,
48:17I know just to endorse that,
48:18the DCP for Investigation and Intelligence,
48:21who was formerly the head of the PSB,
48:23Suzette Martin, has also indicated
48:26that she's also looking into the matter
48:28and that she's awaiting the court report and so on,
48:31and they will peruse all that information
48:33before a determination is made going forward.
48:37So, on that note, we're going to take a break,
48:39and we'll be back with your calls.
48:41Stay with us.
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50:21Get ready for the biggest Christmas event
50:23in Trinidad and Tobago.
50:25Pan, Perón and Soka.
50:27Join us on November 30th at the enchanting
50:29Estate 101 in Maraval.
50:31Coming to Pan, Perón and Soka.
50:33The Perón.
50:34Calypso Night.
50:35Amantis de Paranda.
50:36Los Alumnos de San Juan.
50:37First Citizen Super Novel.
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50:40Rono Man.
50:41The Parang Boss.
50:42Peter Dean.
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50:44Ainsley King.
50:45Blackie.
50:46Tony Prescott.
50:47Marvel Netflix.
50:48Mikel Tejan.
50:49And Pan, Perón and Soka.
50:53It starts here.
50:55With the Trinidad Express Newspapers.
50:58To enhance your reading experience,
51:01our back page will now carry
51:03the second biggest story of the day,
51:05leading to all of the content you want.
51:08Local and international news,
51:10sports, weather, lifestyle articles,
51:13puzzles and more.
51:15So whether you like reading from the front or the back,
51:18our new design has you in mind.
51:22It starts here with the Trinidad Express Newspapers.
51:31Welcome back to Legally Speaking Wednesdays.
51:34I'm your host Mark Bassan,
51:36joined today by Corporal Zahira Ali and Ateneat Law
51:39with the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.
51:41We're going straight to our lines.
51:42Caller, good evening.
51:46Caller, good evening.
51:47Hello, hello.
51:48Are you hearing me, Mark?
51:49Yes, I'm hearing you.
51:50Go ahead.
51:52I just want to give you a heads up.
51:54We're going straight to our lines.
51:56Caller, good evening.
51:57Hello, hello.
51:58Are you hearing me, Mark?
51:59Yes, I'm hearing you.
52:00I just want to give one point
52:01because I don't have much time.
52:03It's a content.
52:04I'm glad for what you said just now concerning
52:06because that is what I was going to talk about
52:08because we saw the video.
52:09We saw something that elected this morning
52:11and they always talk about evidence
52:14and, you know, which is important.
52:17So I want to know now,
52:19the DPP, he will only say to charge somebody
52:22if he has seen something that appears as evidence.
52:26So I'm wondering now,
52:28if the officers now will come and say,
52:32look, I went to sue the state
52:34because of wrongful arrest or something like that.
52:36So I'm glad you went to look into it.
52:38I'm glad something will be done about it
52:40because something has to be done
52:42because that isn't looking very good at all now.
52:44And Mark just spoke about something else,
52:46the other one.
52:47I didn't hear the other one
52:48but I was just talking about that first one.
52:50Something has to be done about that.
52:51You cannot be wasting precious time.
52:54All the best to all of you.
52:55Thank you very much.
52:57All right.
52:58Thank you very much, Kola.
52:59Kola, just to give you the assurance
53:01that part of looking at that matter,
53:03I can give an undertaking
53:05that special consideration be given
53:07in terms of submitting that file
53:10to the Honorable Director of Public Prosecutions
53:12for further consideration
53:14with reference to the initiation of proceedings
53:18after he reviewed that file
53:20and the findings of that particular report.
53:22Yeah, and as I said,
53:23we don't want to bias the matter in any way.
53:27Of course, we're still going to review to see
53:30if, you know, as you said before,
53:32and we want to remain completely neutral.
53:35Just scenarios, of course,
53:37and what would have transpired in the court
53:39is what we can report.
53:41And it was just a coincidence, I guess, if not,
53:45that two matters of similar nature
53:48both were dismissed in a very similar way.
53:51Well, again, Mark, as I said before,
53:53that, you know, now that it's on record,
53:55you know, now that it's on record,
53:57you have basically brought it into the public domain,
53:59it's important now for that professional response
54:03and that expeditious and timely response
54:05to be able to ventilate it
54:07so that you, you know, promote transparency
54:09and accountability in relation
54:11to where those matters are concerned.
54:13So, you know, as I said before,
54:14there's a great public interest in the matter,
54:16you know, because not only the fact
54:19that they are police officers,
54:20but the fact that crime in its context
54:23is considered against the public
54:26and the public will have a right
54:28and should have a right
54:29to ensure that they ask questions
54:31when there's a development like we are seeing.
54:34And as you say, it all goes back
54:37to what we have been speaking about
54:39for a long time,
54:41as it deals with trust and confidence
54:44in the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service
54:46and, you know, for a fact
54:47that over the last few months,
54:49that those words have taken a serious hit
54:52when it relates and it's connected to the TTPS.
54:55Well, Mark, let me respond immediately
54:57that, you know, while we may be facing,
54:59you know, an uphill task,
55:01if a wise, a wise position should be
55:05that now two things have unfolded
55:07in the public domain,
55:08the two matters that allegedly was discharged
55:11slash dismissed from the High Court.
55:14If we are looking at public trust and confidence,
55:16in my respective view,
55:17looking at it now from a citizen lens,
55:21what will be required now is an immediate response
55:24that will be geared towards
55:26lifting the public trust and confidence
55:28in the police service
55:29to be able to deal with matters like this.
55:31So while trust and confidence generally,
55:33and based on the survey
55:34from the Police Service Commission,
55:35may be, you know, wagging,
55:37this is an opportunity for us
55:38to redeem ourselves that we are,
55:40we as an organization,
55:41are very serious about ensuring
55:43that there is accountability and transparency
55:45regarding the public's business.
55:47So I think that looking at it from that context,
55:49we have an opportunity to redeem ourselves
55:51with reference of public trust and confidence
55:53on how we deal with these two matters.
55:54So I just wanted to share that in perspective.
55:56Yes, we appreciate that
55:57and are certainly very important points
55:59made there by Corporal Ali.
56:01Of course, repeat tonight at 11.30.
56:04We run tomorrow at 11 a.m.
56:07And guess what?
56:08The TV6 News is up next.
56:10Stay with us.
56:11♪♪♪
56:16♪♪♪
56:21♪♪♪
56:26♪♪♪
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