00:00And that's the part that gets missed and the part that I get angry about.
00:02Baker might have been a little immature, but he was a leader.
00:05And he had that locker room believing in that team.
00:07And he was as consistent of a player as you could find.
00:11I hate that idea that it just gets casted aside as if it never would have worked here
00:16because he grew up in Tampa in raising a family.
00:19Like, no, I just don't believe in that.
00:22He had the traits here.
00:24Yeah, that's a very pro-Browns narrative.
00:27And Baker, by the way, saying I needed to grow up.
00:29Yeah, teams help guys grow up all the time.
00:32It's called patience, foresight, and being the adult in the room.
00:35I guess my thing is, I don't think the Browns have enjoyed any bit of the Deshaun experience.
00:40I don't want to say that.
00:41Although I do think they genuinely like Deshaun.
00:44And I think they genuinely care about the human being, which, by the way, they should.
00:48Because they know him firsthand in a way that we never really have got to,
00:52whether that's Deshaun's choice or a choice of circumstance with how things have gone.
00:56But I think while they look at this and while they go, wow, it didn't work out,
01:01I don't think they feel any shame or embarrassment over where they're going
01:06because in the end they fall back on, well, you know what, the logic was right,
01:10so we can't really take one on the chin here.
01:13And it's like, no, I would prefer that you feel some sort of shame and embarrassment.
01:17And I would prefer, because to me, in watching human beings evolve and learn their lesson,
01:26Baker Mayfield, why has Baker Mayfield evolved according to people who think the Browns made
01:31the right move and why the Browns did a solid for Baker Mayfield?
01:34Because Baker was shamed by his own performance and by the way the first couple years went
01:39and he found himself a new man.
01:41I don't feel like there is any of that growth or maturity from the Browns
01:46because they don't feel shame or embarrassment.
01:48So no matter how much anybody roots for Baker Mayfield this Sunday,
01:53that Tampa Stadium could be filled with Browns fans
01:56and they could cheer Baker's name and MVP chants
01:59and the Browns organization is going to go,
02:02all right, who we got next week?
02:03Is that Carolina?
02:04All right, we're on to Carolina.
02:06Yeah, I mean, that's how they operate.
02:08And so, like, that's independent of Baker.
02:10That's, I mean, we saw that with the first week in Jacksonville, right?
02:13They just turn the page and they keep this thing moving.
02:15I just, what it should be is a massive wake-up call to how their processes
02:19and how they evaluate quarterbacks is just off.
02:22They just, and this is Stefanski down to Barry, down to everybody else.
02:25They just didn't look at the human side of this.
02:27They thought that Deshaun Watson, the play on the field is the only part of this
02:31that mattered, and clearly there's so many other factors into being a great quarterback.
02:34Look across the NFL.
02:36Yeah, I also think Baker coming out yesterday and saying he remembers the good memories.
02:40Of course he did, because that's what a franchise quarterback does.
02:43Even the idea that he gave the Browns a pass, like you referenced it earlier,
02:46the idea that Baker came out and was like, I needed to grow up in Cleveland.
02:50Because that's what mature people do.
02:51They make those statements.
02:52They say those things.
02:54I wholeheartedly believe that the Browns had stuck with Baker Mayfield.
02:57Not only would we have been fine in this, but you would have also watched Baker Mayfield
03:00mature, quote-unquote, the same way that he's matured in Tampa Bay.
03:03It would have happened.
03:04All right, but can I be honest?
03:05I do expect that if Baker Mayfield goes out there and has a 250-yard, three-touchdown,
03:11one turnover performance, and the Buccaneers bounce the Browns accordingly, I do expect
03:17some sort of a Baker moment.
03:19I'm not saying it's going to be a full honka-honka, but it's going to be something.
03:22That's part of his character, too, though.
03:24The fiery part of him, the part that always has a chip on his shoulder, the part that is
03:27trying to prove all his doubters wrong.
03:29Of course he's going to do something.
03:30Is it the crotch grab at Kansas?
03:32I don't know about that, but it's got to be something.
03:34He's got to do something, but that doesn't mean he's immature just because he celebrates
03:38on a football field either, and that's where I think a lot of people got a lot of the Baker
03:41Mayfield conversation, including the Browns, wrong.
03:44They took him celebrating or being cocky on the field as if all of a sudden he's like the
03:49worst human in the world.
03:51Meanwhile, they went and signed Deshaun Watson, a guy with actual problems off the field,
03:56and thought to themselves, no, this guy's got it going on.
03:58What problems?
03:59This guy is good.
03:59I don't know, 26 civil lawsuits that were settled, just a little bit.
04:03Whoa.
04:05How did we not hear that?
04:06We're doing the thing where I have to, what is the Drew Barrymore, Adam Sandler movie,
04:1150 First Dates?
04:12I got to explain to you every day what happened with Deshaun Watson.
04:15Wow.
04:16I feel like.
04:17You've taken it out of your memory completely?
04:18Yeah.
04:19I mean, that's what you're going to tell me this last Sunday.
04:22Deshaun Watson played poorly and then spent the entire week telling everybody how well he
04:26played.
04:27You didn't know this about this show when you signed up for the job, but actually in
04:30the pre-show meeting, I have to explain everything that has happened with Deshaun Watson over
04:34again, like from the very beginning to Nick, to make sure that he's got it, because every
04:38single day he wakes up and it's just erased it all.
04:41Yeah.
04:41It's just gone.
04:42This is exactly why Vanessa calls me 10 second Tom.
04:44It's gone.
04:45Well, that works though.
04:46That works.
04:47Wait, Tom?
04:49Joke from the movie.
04:50Hello, sports fan.
04:51Hello.
04:52Those are the 10 seconds.
04:53Mary Kate Cabot was on with the Morning Boys earlier today and warned against revisionist
04:58history.
04:59Well, that's all well and good, but everyone does need to remember and try not to revise
05:04history.
05:05He, and I wrote this back then, he did not want to be here with Kevin Stefanski the way
05:09that things were.
05:09He was the one that had called out Kevin Stefanski after that Steelers game and things were bubbling
05:15under the surface and that was not going well.
05:18So he actually sort of struck out first in that regard and almost made it untenable for
05:24him to still be here unless some drastic changes were made.
05:27So when you throw all of that into the hopper, you know, I, I think he had something to do
05:31with why he's not here either, but because of the vitriol for Deshaun Watson, that's how
05:38this, you know, the narrative is just going to change between, you know, the bad guy versus
05:42the good guy.
05:42Yeah, um, I don't think people rooting for Baker this Sunday, it's revisionist history
05:49at all.
05:49Uh, if Deshaun Watson had lived up to his billing, I do think there's something to say that we
05:54probably wouldn't have as many people rooting for Baker Mayfield.
05:58I don't really look at though, the way people feel about either quarterback is being directly
06:03linked to each other.
06:04I feel like how you feel about the Browns is usually directly linked with both quarterbacks.
06:10I also don't understand why, why people can't have independent thoughts about quarterbacks.
06:14Like we went through this with the Deshaun versus Shador thing, um, a couple of weeks
06:18ago, you only hate Deshaun Watson.
06:20Cause you want to see Shador Sanders play football.
06:22No, no, I've been pretty adamant.
06:23If Shador Sanders is playing in a different Jersey, I find whatever I would always root
06:28for the idea that, uh, not maybe roots the wrong term here, but I would always have the
06:32understanding that Deshaun Watson isn't going to be able to get the job done.
06:36And I don't ever think that would change.
06:37I'm, I'm, I'm very confused by this, this persistent narrative that people, that people
06:44have just kind of normalized the idea that Deshaun should be starting and that, that we
06:49can't allow as if you and I for six months, didn't say you don't have to do this and sign
06:54any other quarterback to go up against your door.
06:56And we'll go ahead and have a real quarterback debate.
06:59The only way we weren't going to say, Hey, let the best man win was if, if one of the
07:05two
07:05guys was Deshaun Watson.
07:07Yeah.
07:07I just think you can have the independent thoughts on their own.
07:10I can think one thing about Deshaun Watson and yes, that can be negative.
07:13I can also think another thing about Shador Sanders and that'd be positive.
07:16Baker Mayfield, that'd be positive.
07:18And it is not a reflection of the other.
07:20It doesn't really matter, uh, when it comes down to the big picture of what you think
07:24about Deshaun Watson for what you think about Baker Mayfield.
07:27I also think it's really interesting that, and you know, listen, I understand we want to,
07:31want to remain consistent.
07:32And we want to remain, uh, journalistically pure about how we treated Baker when he was
07:37here and how, what we thought of Baker Mayfield.
07:40But, uh, five years later, Baker Mayfield is winning the divorce and it's not even close.
07:45Not only has he made more money, uh, he's in a situation where they get him and, and when
07:50I'm talking about they, I mean the organization, uh, they let him play the style of ball that
07:55he is most comfortable in.
07:56And they've allowed him, they've surrounded him with a lot of talent and given him a chance
08:01to be successful.
08:02And the Browns have one winning season and the worst trade in NFL history.
08:06That's not revisionist history.
08:07No, that's, that's just a fact of how this goes.
08:10But if you say anything positive about Baker or, or, uh, anything negative about the Deshaun
08:16trade, there's a segment of folks who feel like you have to go ahead and reset the type
08:20right and go, well, but you know, at the time here was the prevailing thought.
08:24It's like, no, no, no, no, the prevailing thought no longer matters because the Browns
08:28lost hilariously, hilariously bad, historically bad.
08:33And Baker landed on his feet and arguably salvaged his career and salvaged the Tampa
08:39Bay Buccaneers in the ashes of the Tom Brady.
08:41But here's where the prevailing thought I always thought missed by just a little bit.
08:47You didn't have to choose Kevin Stefanski.
08:51If the idea was that Baker Mayfield and Kevin Stefanski could not work together.
08:55And I agree with that a hundred percent that that was the predominant thought at the time.
08:59I believed it.
08:59We heard it at the time.
09:00It was what it was.
09:01You didn't have to choose Kevin Stefanski.
09:02You could have gone a different route and, uh, like the, and, and, and hindsight with
09:06dealing with everything, I think it's pretty clear which area of the Browns would have
09:09been better off if they had chosen Baker Mayfield or Kevin Stefanski, you always can get
09:14a new head coach, always get a new head coach.
09:16And Stefanski coming off a six win season, people act as if he walked on water cause he
09:20won 11 the year prior, but they forgot the idea that it was the quarterback that got
09:23him there.
09:24Also, you could have sat down with Kevin Stefanski and said, you need to make it work with Baker.
09:30I mean, I, I guess, I guess this is the only organization that when, when they possibly
09:36can turn to scapegoatism and we got to find whatever pressure point there is.
09:41And the pressure point is we got to quit, hit the EJAC button on it, right?
09:46EVAC button was the one I was going for there.
09:48Uh, that's a different button, that first button, but no, they hit the EVAC button on
09:52it.
09:52I just, it's, it's the craziest thing to me that the second that there's any sort of
09:57tension or whatever, the, the response is, well, it's Baker or Kevin.
10:01How about you go tell Kevin, part of your job as a head coach is to make it work with
10:06the quarterback that is the set, the center of this team.
10:09I know there was always something about the idea that, uh, Stefanski, you know, it, it
10:15was an arranged marriage.
10:16Yeah.
10:16You know, Baker was taken under John Dorsey.
10:19He was actually taken with Hugh Jackson, uh, but he was, it was under John Dorsey.
10:22And there was, there was a part of Andrew Barry, I would suspect wanting his own quarterback.
10:26And there was a part of Kevin Stefanski wanting his own quarterback.
10:28And it was a changing of the guard that they were trying to have persist all the while Baker
10:33Mayfield wanted to be paid $40 million a year.
10:35And they didn't look at him like a $40 million a year quarterback.
10:37And again, I want to give history the right idea.
10:41I understand a lot of what their thought process was in that Joe Burrow existed.
10:47Lamar Jackson existed.
10:48Uh, Josh Allen existed.
10:49Patrick Mahomes existed.
10:50It seemed like the AFC was a juggernaut at that time and was going to be stacked with
10:55a lot of elite quarterbacks, but they sold out to trying to only get the
10:58elite quarterback and just miss the idea that, I don't know, Baker Mayfield could get better
11:03at this.
11:03Yeah.
11:04They also, uh, underestimated that they were viewing things from a one point in time and
11:10didn't realize, oh, Hey, maybe Joe Burrow could get injured.
11:13Oh, Hey, at some point, maybe Pat Mahomes has some struggles.
11:17Maybe, uh, you know, like there, there were so many things that happened that they just took
11:21as certainties and allowed that, like the only real part of history that mattered is Baker
11:26Mayfield was the best starting quarterback you had had since 1999.
11:30He was the most statistically sound quarterback.
11:32The most, uh, the most, uh, consistent quarterback, just in terms of games played.
11:37I don't know.
11:38I just, I, I find this game, this game should be the game that if Baker goes out there and
11:43has a hell of a game and Deshaun goes out there and has another game, like he did week
11:46one, this should be an aha moment for the organization.
11:50But I just think in the same way that I no longer, that's not going to happen in the same
11:53way.
11:54I no longer expects, uh, Deshaun Watson to have some sort of self-awareness that he
11:58wakes up and he, all of a sudden he's Scrooge at the end of, uh, that Dickens thing.
12:04Uh, it like I, a Christmas story.
12:06That's the one I was trying to think.
12:07I was going to say Christmas Carol, but feel the same damn way about the Browns.
12:12Like I, I no longer feel like they're going to go cause they're just onto the next thing
12:16perpetually.
12:17Well, and again, that's like, it's kind of like the big hope, the big hope out of all
12:19this is that they finally understand how much it matters to have a quarterback that is mentally
12:23sound and mentally there.
12:24And, uh, even if he's might not be the prototypical adult in the room at the moment, if the worst
12:30thing you got is him running from taco trucks in college, uh, maybe that guy can actually
12:34become the adult in the room that you think he can be.
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