00:00It was interesting. I saw this at the end of yesterday's show, and I will tell you, we like Mina
00:06Kimes around these parts, and we like her even more when she says something like this on ESPN.
00:11I felt like with Sean Watson, the operation looked cleaner, not willing to push the ball down the field.
00:16With Cher, he was willing to push it all out on the field early on.
00:19The operation was flawed, and the net result is I don't really think you're going to get, you know, top
00:24-end average quarterback play from either over the course of the season.
00:27But I will say this. These young Browns skill players are fun.
00:31They are ahead of schedule in the rebuild of everything around the quarterback.
00:35Obviously, Judkins and Fannin were excellent last season.
00:39Casey Concepcion was my number one takeaway from this game.
00:42So much juice with the ball in his hands.
00:44By the way, speaking of hands, made a tough catch.
00:46Contact balance reminded me of Jalen Waddell, who I declared him to in the free-drop process.
00:51This has the opportunity to be a really talented young core.
00:55They really are a quarterback away. I feel that way.
00:58I mean, let's just start here.
00:59What did I not? I mean, that was Michael Bay kind of music there under Mina Kimes.
01:03Well, that is part of the ESPN hook, is that every time you're in the middle of making a point,
01:08they have to play music that'll last about 10 seconds fewer than what your point is.
01:12But it really builds a scene.
01:14Like, Mina doesn't need that music.
01:16There are some people on that channel that do need the music, and it plays.
01:20The music plays.
01:21The funny thing is, so Mina and I are at the same point, which is the Browns are a quarterback
01:27away.
01:28Where I think we probably differ is just what the Browns can look like this year, sans great quarterback play.
01:35Like, I really don't think, like, competitive is such a big jump for this team,
01:40and it's kind of like people are setting them up to be one of the worst teams in the NFL.
01:44I get it, but I think you can be competitive in spite of quarterback play.
01:48Yeah, I just think there's a lot of ifs attached to the idea that they're already just a quarterback away.
01:52Listen, I love what Concepcion is.
01:54I love what Denzel Boston is.
01:55I don't know what this offensive line is at all.
01:58I really don't know what the run game is going to be if the offensive line is going to be
02:01mediocre.
02:03And even within that, Judkins, I like Judkins, but I'm not going to be the first one to all of
02:07a sudden say he's replaced Nick Chubb
02:09and is the greatest running back I've ever seen.
02:10Like, there still are some spots on this roster.
02:13And especially, you can go to the defensive side of the ball.
02:15We can talk some of the same stuff.
02:16There's still some spots on this roster that make you say, are we really just a quarterback away?
02:21Yeah, but I think how many times did we – how many times have we had talks about the Browns
02:26and surprising people
02:28and the ifs haven't really been ifs?
02:31Does that make sense?
02:32Like, we've been talking about a team that's just fundamentally flawed
02:35that doesn't even have the talent to do the things we're saying.
02:39Like, this at least you can say they do have the talent.
02:41It's just they have to turn ifs into yeses.
02:44Yeah, they still have to do that, though.
02:46And that's part – I don't know what happened in the last week for Mina to all of a sudden
02:49say
02:50that this team has done enough to be the just a quarterback away
02:55without even seeing them play this year.
02:56What I thought this year was about is basically stamping down that idea
03:00that with experience, getting a year under their belt,
03:02and in some instances two years under their belt for some of the rookies from last year,
03:06that's where this team was going to make this big stride.
03:08And not that we already had made it.
03:09Now we're just waiting around for the quarterback to drop in.
03:12Yeah, I mean, I just think – I think the Browns are closer than people think.
03:16So I don't – I think the Browns had a massive problem this offseason
03:20that nobody paid attention to them.
03:22I mean, I want to say about three weeks ago I went on a rant
03:25that got me chastised by other shows here because I was like, you know,
03:29there are like three takes on the Browns from people outside of Cleveland,
03:33and what's interesting is a fair amount of people in Cleveland
03:37share those exact same three takes.
03:39I don't think anybody outside of Cleveland thought about the Browns at all
03:42since Kevin Stefanski got fired.
03:44What I like about Mina, and she's in that Ben Solak brigade,
03:47those are the type of people –
03:48Don't know if she has the aura that Ben does.
03:50Oh, definitely.
03:50Ben's got some real in-person aura.
03:52I'm a big Ben Solak guy.
03:54But, like, those guys do watch every team.
03:56I can criticize a lot of national people for not watching every team
03:59and not really diving into it.
04:00Solak, Mina Kimes, those are the type of people that do go into every team.
04:03And I think what's fun about this Browns roster is when you go under the hood a little bit,
04:07you do see a lot of talent, you see a lot of players that should be exciting,
04:10that should get there.
04:11I just – when I look at this team, I don't see a quarterback away yet.
04:14I could see a scenario after this year where we're looking around and saying,
04:17oh, they are just a quarterback away, but I need us to play those games first,
04:20and I need to have that stamp down first.
04:22So we mentioned A.J. Epinesa.
04:24We mentioned – should mention – Jadavion Clowney coming here.
04:27It looked like they were going to sign him,
04:28and then he went down and signed with Houston.
04:30And for the third time this offseason, we thought we were going to reel in
04:34an edge rusher with a name, Zedarius Smith.
04:38And again, there was a report by Mary Kay Cabot on Sunday
04:41that it's pretty much a done deal.
04:43Zedarius was expected to sign with the Browns.
04:45He has since visited the Falcons and signed with the Falcons today.
04:48Yeah, $6 million is the price, and then it's worth up to $8 million with incentives.
04:52And so a lot of people are turning around and saying, okay, clearly money is what won the battle.
04:57But I didn't think Browns – I didn't think we lost money battles.
05:00Yeah, I think this actually is probably more of a playing time thing.
05:04With James Pierce being out for the first half of the season,
05:06and their – I can't remember the other kid's name.
05:09Is it Walker, the other edge rusher, is out for the season with a knee injury?
05:13I think Zedarius gets to start, and I think that's kind of a –
05:17Well, that's starter money for them, by the way.
05:18I mean, $6 million with the $8 million up to incentives.
05:21It's starter money.
05:21But, like, I think the problem the Browns have right now isn't necessarily a money one.
05:26And I think it's an opportunity one.
05:28I think whomever the Browns end up signing is going to be playing about 25% of the snaps off
05:34the edge.
05:34That's about a fourth or fifth edge rusher kind of role for this team.
05:38And that's really hard to get somebody with a name to fill that.
05:42It's why Cameron Thomas was that guy for the last two years here.
05:45Well, then Clowney obviously went back to Houston because there's nostalgia attached to it.
05:48I think Clowney understands he's only getting 25% to 30% snaps basically anywhere he goes.
05:53That was the role he played last year in Dallas.
05:54That'd be the role he'd play here.
05:56At that point, you just lost out to favoritism and where he was drafted.
05:59That was easier to chew.
06:01And that team very well could win the Super Bowl this year.
06:04I'm not saying I would bet on it, but with that defense, that defense and a halfway good performance by
06:09C.J. Stroud, they should be in the –
06:11I'd say why not?
06:12I mean, C.J. Stroud wins a playoff game every year he's been in the league.
06:14That's three straight years.
06:15If he just looks somewhat adequate, and they're going to have healthy receivers this year.
06:18Everyone dogs their offense last season, and rightfully so, but Tank Dell was injured.
06:23He had all sorts of injuries last year.
06:24Now, I will say, because I think the natural thing people jump to is the idea of the Browns are
06:29being used as leverage again.
06:31I think something that Andrew Barry does that kind of flies under the radar is Andrew does tend to do
06:38favors for agents in a way that help guys get signed other places.
06:43So, there are times where I think the Browns have been used as leverage.
06:46That might have been the case with both Zedarius and with Jadavian Clowney.
06:50I don't know definitively.
06:51There's also a chance that he brought them in because if they wanted to fit the role and fit the
06:57pay, he'd take them.
06:59But it's also good business for those guys because it makes them look like they have a market.
07:02I just feel like every team we've named has all made sense for the player to not choose the Browns.
07:08That's not a bad reflection on the Browns.
07:09That's just the reality of where we're at right now.
07:11Other teams could offer up other things and incentives and different ways that it made sense for these certain players.
07:17It's just not the end of the world.
07:20So, this is actually a significant deal, but it has nothing to do with Zedarius Smith.
07:25It has nothing to do with Jadavian Clowney.
07:27It has nothing to do with A.J. Epinesa.
07:29It's the fact that you don't have that fourth or fifth edge rusher role sealed.
07:34Now, we've got Isaiah McGuire leaving practice today, and we'll find out what happens there.
07:38But, yeah, there's an added emphasis to this.
07:40I think you are probably about three deep at each spot, meaning edge rusher or defensive tackle.
07:47You probably need to be four or five deep to be able to make it through the whole rest of
07:53the offseason.
07:54Did you see the video of Tyreek Sapp from the preseason game, by the way?
07:57That man is a genetic unit.
07:59No, one of him basically just not running on any of the plays after the fact and just kind of
08:03loafing around.
08:04He's getting highlighted in a bad way.
08:06There's some interesting parts of this team, if you're talking about two, three deep on that D-line, that the
08:13Browns, I mean, they've got to get better in certain spots.
08:14It's just the reality of it.
08:15I mean, the Tyreek Sapp thing is a, like, one, that's kind of, was his knock on Florida.
08:20If the NFL draft was based purely on talent, Tyreek Sapp would have been a top four-round player.
08:26Like, he is a genetic freak.
08:28Also, if he's, like, two inches taller, that also would have helped.
08:30But, like, yeah, there's a reason he was an undrafted free agent.
08:34And it showed.
08:35Every bit of it showed.
08:36There was just the lack of hustle that was attached to Sapp in those plays.
08:40It was just very noticeable.
08:42But I do think the fact that the Browns have tried to address this multiple times and have not come
08:47away with the right player, the right fit, I think that's really noticeable.
08:50Especially with guys so banged up in this camp, especially on the defensive line.
08:55And I think that's something that bears kind of watching.
08:59Because, you know, Jim Schwartz, and again, this is kind of the test of Mike Rutenberger.
09:04As a defensive coordinator, Jim Schwartz always found a Cameron Thomas.
09:08He always found, there was always some guy, some interesting project that Andrew Barry in the front office brought in.
09:15And then Jim found a role for him.
09:17And I do think that's one of the unique things of having a great defensive coordinator who knows his system.
09:23And I think that will be the challenge of Mike Rutenberg coaching someone else's system is making sure that whoever
09:31your fourth or fifth defensive end is or fourth or fifth defensive tackle is or, you know, fifth linebacker, that
09:37they're maximizing those roster spots with the right guys.
09:40Well, and I do think it's a part of Jim Schwartz that obviously everyone appreciated when he was here.
09:45But it does get highlighted.
09:46The idea that a guy like Malik Collins last year can come on over and have one of the best
09:49years he's had in almost forever.
09:51And Schwartz did that with a lot of different players.
09:54And it just kind of felt like if they came over here, Schwartz, if you fit into his system, he
09:58was going to find a way to make that work and a way to make you shine.
10:01And he just, it's so many players.
10:03What we kept talking about on the offensive side of the ball had so many people that just couldn't get
10:06developed over the past couple seasons with Schwartz, we started having guys in the defensive side get developed.
10:11That's a real, it's a real feather in the cap of Schwartz that's going to be missed here.
10:15Well, and it's funny.
10:16And now it falls on Rutenberg.
10:17That part of my confidence to go back to the start of the show, which is are the Browns closer
10:22than people think?
10:23And I don't think that's just nationally.
10:25I think that's locally here too.
10:26Like, I think this is as down on the Browns as I've heard Browns fans in a minute.
10:33And I do feel like I'm kind of the person being like, guys, they actually have talent.
10:39This is not the 2016 or 2017 Cleveland Browns.
10:42But part of my confidence with this is that I think Todd Munkin is going to do for the offense
10:47what Jim Schwartz did for the defense.
10:49They actually develop guys.
10:50Be a guy that develops guys in real time.
10:52I think we're already seeing that with guys like KC, with guys like Denzel Boston.
10:56That's one of the big complaints I had with Stefanski.
10:58And like his entire time here, they kept drafting third-round wide receivers and getting nothing out of it.
11:02They kept drafting all these different players.
11:04And we wondered for years, is this a development problem?
11:07Is it a drafting problem?
11:08It's got to be one or the other.
11:10But the idea that Stefanski couldn't develop anything offensively just killed them.
11:13But my concern then goes to Mike Rutenberg, first-time defensive coordinator.
11:17Again, he'll fall back on – maybe he's the guy responsible for Quincy Williams becoming a real player for the
11:25time he was in New York.
11:26I'm sure he has individual guys as a position coach to line up on or to fall back on.
11:31But, yeah, like for this team to be the seven- or eight-win team, to be competitive, to overcome
11:37the quarterback room, you are going to need to have a deeper bench across the way because that defensive line
11:44is going to have to carry a heavy load this year as opposed to if you've got Pat Mahomes as
11:49your starting quarterback or Josh Allen as your starting quarterback.
11:51You want to hear my glass-half-full approach to the defensive line this year?
11:54I'm ready for it.
11:54All right, so everyone always talks about sacks as being the end-all, be-all.
11:57And Myles Garrett going to the Rams, that's obviously a big component to that and a lot of sacks that
12:01are leaving out the door.
12:02One thing I love about Jared Verse, Jared Verse doesn't really light up the world as far as sacks are
12:06concerned, but he does with pressures.
12:08And so if I can point to a team that I feel like could be maybe not a copy and
12:13paste, but somebody the Browns could maybe try to look towards and say this is who we need to be
12:19and this is going to be more than respectable and damn near actually really good last year, the Seattle Seahawks.
12:25The Seahawks didn't have a single player with over eight sacks on their defensive line last year.
12:29That is a Super Bowl champion team, not a single player with eight sacks on their defensive line.
12:33What they had was pressures everywhere.
12:35Everyone on the D-line, 20-plus pressures.
12:37It lived everywhere.
12:38I think Mason Graham could be that.
12:39I think Verse could be that.
12:41And I think they're going to live in the pressure world.
12:43Maybe not as much the sack world, and that's going to be disappointing to fans that you always want sacks,
12:47but live in the pressure world, and that could be their DNA.
12:49Well, excuse me.
12:49Good night.
12:50Good night.
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