- 2 days ago
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00Anthony Lima and Coach Rislin is in with us today.
00:05Love having you on to talk about the Browns because you're going to be out in training camp
00:12basically every single day, breaking down every throw.
00:15Now, we had Daryl on yesterday and I asked Daryl, are you going to chart every throw?
00:18So I got to ask you, are you going to chart every single damn throw from those quarterbacks?
00:23Well, I will say this and I don't mind saying it to you.
00:26There's not a throw without context means absolutely nothing.
00:30So, no, I won't be throwing, I don't chart throws.
00:33Boy, you're telling me that if I see a graphic on social media.
00:38Means nothing.
00:38And I see two names, sorry Dylan, I see two names, Shador Sanders and Deshaun Watson.
00:45And if I see a 7-11, three touchdowns, one interception, you're telling me that doesn't mean anything?
00:55Because that's going to be all we're going to talk about.
00:57I'm telling you it means.
00:59That's the whole show.
00:59If you don't get any context, then no.
01:02Here's why.
01:02Because you have to make sure that when, you know, when are they going to...
01:05We're not going to have a show.
01:06So the first time, the first time I saw...
01:08What are we going to do on the show?
01:10Wouldn't be the first time.
01:10Well, here's the thing.
01:11Here's the thing.
01:12When you look at throws, if you don't have context with throws, you don't know, are they in 7-on
01:16-7s?
01:17Are the defense, are they, do they, are they everything scripted?
01:20Meaning the offense and defense know what they're doing.
01:22I remember last year, there was a couple times where they were working on Hail Marys at the end of
01:27the half.
01:28I remember standing there, and I remember Kevin's fancy going, hey, make sure you get the ball up, right?
01:32This is the end of the game, no time left.
01:34And then that was shown as an interception.
01:37What a terrible throw.
01:38It has to be context in what you're doing.
01:40So when you say, yeah, quarterback looked good, his footwork looked good, but the actual, without context, no, it doesn't
01:47mean much to a coach.
01:49How are we going to do the show, though?
01:50That's my only question.
01:51Anyway, this is why it's going to be fun.
01:54See, this is why the coach is in here.
01:55This is why it's going to be valuable to have him at training camp to come on and say, all
02:00right, I know maybe one guy's stats look better on the graphic than the others,
02:05but, you know, I saw Munkin, and I saw how he was coaching him, and was he even making the
02:12right read on that particular throw?
02:15Yeah, that's open.
02:15Well, it's the drill.
02:17Like, these are the things that people are going to get so carried away because everybody's dug in.
02:22Everybody's got their guy, right?
02:23Or everybody may not believe in either of the guys, but wants to prioritize maybe youth over somebody with baggage.
02:32Like, we're going to get into all of that,
02:33but that's why I think it'll be valuable to have you there every single day because if I'm there just
02:39charting the throws, like, what are we going to do?
02:42Confirmation bias is the worst thing.
02:44So if you say a guy stinks or he's great, you're already – so in the course of a two
02:47– you know, Munkin's going to run tough camp now over two hours.
02:51So if you talk over two hours, if you have confirmation bias going into this practice or going into a
02:56scrimmage,
02:56you're going to get the narrative you want based on your bias.
02:59So for me, you've got to go in and you've got to have an open mind and kind of look
03:03at the whole practice.
03:04Because if I say a guy stinks, he's going to have a bad throw.
03:07He's going to make a bad read.
03:08And then all of a sudden, that fits your narrative.
03:10And that's where I'm not at with either of these quarterbacks.
03:14I don't think either of them – I don't care that Deshaun hasn't played well in six years.
03:18And I don't care that Shador was a fifth-round pick.
03:22Judge it on what you see moving forward.
03:24All right, with that said, reason to believe that things are going to get turned around with the Browns?
03:32I was looking for some optimism.
03:33Yesterday, we did the Jerry Judy stuff.
03:35I'm like, come on.
03:36We can't start the week out talking about Jerry Judy dividing the quarterback room,
03:43picking one of the others, social media.
03:45Are these edited?
03:46I mean, we did the whole investigation yesterday with our private eye, young John.
03:50I have no interest in doing that today.
03:52What I have interest in doing is hearing from somebody like Ross Tucker,
03:57who appeared on the afternoon show yesterday and had this to say about your Cleveland Browns.
04:04That sounds about like a fair number.
04:06It's weird because I was thinking about coming on with you guys.
04:09You were texting me, Nick.
04:10And on the one hand, I feel like the Browns are in a pretty good place.
04:14You guys know I really like Todd Munkin.
04:16What they've done in the last couple of years, the infiltration and infusion of all these young players,
04:22I think those are real positives.
04:25And if they drafted as well this year as they did last year,
04:28I do think that provides the foundation for the next playoff team in Cleveland.
04:34The flip side is we still don't have an established quarterback.
04:37And so what I was going to tell you guys is maybe it's Watson for a few games and see,
04:42you know, give him a last chance.
04:43And then maybe Shador gets a lot of the season.
04:46And if not, the 2027 NFL draft is supposed to be really good for quarterbacks.
04:50The negative is, isn't this the exact same thing I said to you guys last year?
04:54And then it didn't work out that way.
04:56On the one hand, I feel like the Browns are in a pretty good spot in terms of the way
05:00they're going about building things.
05:01On the other hand, they still need the guy at that position.
05:04And I guess we'll see if whether Deshaun or Shador can be that guy.
05:08So essentially, Ross and everybody, they're going to say the same thing.
05:12They, a bunch of young talent on this team.
05:15What are we all, why are we all excited so much?
05:17Two, potentially two good drafts back to back.
05:21It is funny to even talk about this draft as being good.
05:23That's just based on the projections.
05:25So if you like the projections, then whatever.
05:27But people around the league have been giving Andrew Barry, the front office,
05:32plenty of kudos to what they've been able to do in the draft the last two years.
05:37But I just wonder if to Browns fans, does that ring hollow when you hear future is bright,
05:44bunch of young talent on the team?
05:46Because I feel like I've heard that a bunch and the Browns are never good.
05:52So we did have two playoff runs or playoff appearances, I should say.
05:56But overall, whether it was Kevin Stefanski, whether it was, you know, anybody before him,
06:05it was always the future is bright, the future is bright, the future is bright.
06:08What do you have to show for it?
06:10So do you take what Ross Tucker just said?
06:13Are you going to focus on the future is bright part if you're a Browns fan or the,
06:18well, until the quarterback thing gets settled, it may not matter.
06:21Two things is you can go back two years ago and say that draft was good.
06:24Saying this year's draft is really good is kind of like charting passes, right?
06:29It doesn't make a lot of sense without context.
06:31There needs to be proof in that, right?
06:32Now, the thing I've noticed about this group is they move very well.
06:35There's an influx of talent at all positions in terms of their movement skills.
06:39They all run.
06:40This looks like a faster team when you watch them practice in the spring.
06:44Here's the issue with all of this is when you say we're taking a look.
06:48I'm not taking a look at a guy.
06:50I'm not seeing what a guy has left.
06:52I'm going to control what I can control.
06:54And when people say, what is your prediction on wins?
06:56It's 1-0.
06:57And I'd be, oh, that's coach's talk.
06:59No, it is absolutely not.
07:00When you focus on winning each week, whether you're, so what is it if you're 2-12?
07:04Then be 3-12, right?
07:06And the reason I say that because that drives how you practice,
07:08that it drives your attention to detail, that drives your enthusiasm,
07:11that drives how you coach, that drives.
07:14So when you think about the future, as my dad would always say,
07:17you're usually not a part of it.
07:18If you're thinking too far ahead, the Browns,
07:20that's why the quarterback conversation, for me, doesn't make any sense sometimes.
07:24Who is the better quarterback going into Jacksonville?
07:26That's what I can control.
07:27I have to be 1-0.
07:29If you want to start thinking about culture and all these things,
07:32it is tied to winning.
07:34And the Browns have to focus on not so much draft capital and all these things.
07:38What do I got to do to win in Jacksonville?
07:40Because you'll see, and I truly believe this,
07:42when you start winning, these things take care of themselves.
07:45And that's where they haven't done.
07:46They're always worried about what's next.
07:48Worry about Jacksonville.
07:49I think that's what I think Todd Munkin's doing.
07:52That's why he hasn't named a quarterback.
07:53He's just trying to figure out the best guy to win in Jacksonville.
07:56All right.
07:56So what you are saying is when you hear guys like Ken,
08:02certainly I've said it at times, and I think, I don't know,
08:07the majority of the fan base would probably pick the younger guy, right?
08:11The younger guy, because we always think younger means more runway,
08:15more potential.
08:18You know, you can coach him up.
08:19They can get better over time,
08:20as opposed to what we normally say about guys that have been in the league
08:24a long time, like the trajectory has been met.
08:27There's not going to be a lot of room, save for Sam Darnold,
08:30who won a Super Bowl last year, amazingly enough.
08:34You aren't going to listen to any of that.
08:36No, absolutely not.
08:37I don't, and it doesn't make any sense.
08:38To say Deshaun, I'm going to bring Deshaun Watson's name,
08:40to say that he has washed up.
08:43I don't care what he's done for six years.
08:45When people say he hasn't played well in six years, okay.
08:47Todd Munkin's thinking, I don't care about that.
08:50We're going to be in an offense that stresses improvisation.
08:53It's going to make him extend plays, throw the ball vertically.
08:57These are things that Deshaun Watson does well.
08:59There's also some things that Shador does well,
09:01that really meet Munkin's kind of needs when he's calling plays.
09:06I just don't think, when you think about, let's take a look,
09:09and let's see what we have in a guy, that's setting yourself up for failure.
09:13You need to say, this guy, I don't want a guy to play
09:15because we're going to take a look at him.
09:17I want a guy to play.
09:18So if Shador's the quarterback, I want him to beat out a healthy Deshaun Watson,
09:21who's playing well.
09:22Not the least of the two guys playing terrible.
09:24I just think that the motto has to change.
09:27We need the best guys to play, that who helps us win.
09:30When I have come on the mic and said things like,
09:34hey, best case scenario for everybody involved is for Shador Sanders to be good,
09:39to continue to improve, and then boom, your fifth round pick
09:44is a starting quarterback in the NFL on the cheapest salary you can imagine
09:50and you can build around him.
09:51Do you agree with that?
09:52Or do you say, man, I don't know, Deshaun Watson,
09:56we've seen a level that he can get to that probably Shador can't get to.
10:00Once again, for me, I'm not looking at any of those things.
10:03When I go to camp tomorrow, I'm looking at, all right, so I'm thinking Jacksonville.
10:07How do we get to Jacksonville?
10:08Because that's the only thing I can control right now.
10:10I can't even control week two.
10:12And if you think of it in those terms, I think it always makes the tunnel a lot thinner
10:16because you're not thinking about what we're going to get in the future
10:19and what is the 2027 draft and are we going to get a quarterback.
10:23I'm not thinking about any of that stuff.
10:24And I think that's where Todd Munkin is at 60 years old.
10:28People said he's going to be a one and done.
10:29He's not thinking about any of that.
10:31How do I win in Jacksonville?
10:32That makes this quarterback competition very interesting.
10:35It also makes the level of competition.
10:37They're not taking a look at guys.
10:39This is the time you develop in the summer, in the spring.
10:42Now it's training camp time.
10:43It's time to make plays and figure out a way to win games.
10:47That's where they need to be.
10:49Winning is the cure to what ails you.
10:52And I don't care what anybody says.
10:54It's easier to do things.
10:55Food tastes better.
10:56You're not as sore.
10:56All those things happen when you're winning.
10:59I love this conversation.
11:01Is this the year it all comes together?
11:03What, that was Deshaun Watson on his social media?
11:08Correct.
11:09His video team?
11:12I mean, who's putting...
11:14In the battle of video teams, I don't know who's winning.
11:15Yeah, well, we have to chart this.
11:17That's why Coach Riz is here in studio.
11:22Well, I thought he was doing throws.
11:23Now he's doing videos.
11:24The chart and video teams.
11:25Yes.
11:25All right.
11:26I want to know, because this video looked pretty, pretty sleek.
11:31Now, like, when it comes to, you know, the number, the velocity of videos, Shador's got them.
11:39Like, it's not even a contest.
11:41Overwhelms you with just sheer numbers.
11:42Sheer number.
11:43It's every day.
11:44But I'd like to know frames per second.
11:47Thanks.
11:47Okay.
11:48I'll get to it.
11:49So, that's Deshaun Watson.
11:51And when people hear that, what do you think when Browns fans hear, this is the year it all comes
11:57together.
11:57What's interesting is every time I talk to Lance here, who's in studio for Ken Carman, every time I talk
12:03to you, you say that Deshaun Watson looks kind of like Deshaun Watson.
12:12No pads.
12:13There's no defense.
12:14There's nobody chasing him.
12:16There's nothing to really process at the line of scrimmage.
12:19Like, you're just saying what?
12:21From what you have seen from him from camp.
12:23Just pure health, his ability to spin the ball, and I've seen a lot of quarterbacks throw, and I've been
12:28lucky enough to go down there where I've seen a bunch of joint practices.
12:31Went to Philly last year.
12:32I've seen a lot of NFL quarterbacks throw.
12:34Those elite guys, when they were elite, it doesn't mean, once again, you just brought up a great point.
12:38It means nothing until the live bullets are flying around.
12:41But his ability to move, which it looks as good as it's looked since he's been here.
12:45He looks healthy movement-wise, moving up in the pocket, breaking out of the pocket, stepping up in the pocket,
12:51extending plays.
12:52Looks very good, just health-wise.
12:54And then when he spins the ball, it's a different level of spin.
12:58He, with some guys, if you think about Aaron Rodgers, who I think is maybe the best pure just thrower
13:03of the football, him and Dan Marino, where just, there's not a lot of effort.
13:06If you think about, like, Baker Mayfield having used that whole body, he just spins it.
13:10It just jumps off his hand.
13:12Now, that doesn't mean anything.
13:13And the idea when people, so the first argument you get from me, well, he hasn't been good in six
13:18years.
13:19What does that mean to Todd Munkin?
13:21What does that mean going into the 2020?
13:23I think that I couldn't agree more.
13:26I've hit on that.
13:27Like, the last time, funny thing is, last time Todd Munkin really saw him was that second half in Baltimore
13:33when he had his best half as a Cleveland Brown.
13:36So, and once again, when people tell me he hasn't played, that's the first thing to come out.
13:40He hasn't played good in six years.
13:41Who cares?
13:42Munkin doesn't care.
13:43Munkin's trying to win week one.
13:44And if that is the mentality, you don't care who it is.
13:47You don't care if he's going to be around week seven or if he's hurt.
13:51Your thought is, how do I win week one?
13:53Now, when you try to win week one, now Shador, if he's not the quarterback, he's had to push because
13:58if he wants to play, he's going to have to beat out a really good Deshaun Watson.
14:02Which then, if something was to happen to Deshaun Watson, you're not just putting him in because you're taking a
14:06look at him.
14:07You're putting him in because he's earned the right to play.
14:09That's just where I don't see it.
14:10So, for me, everything you said is exactly right, Don, but he is, he looks healthy.
14:15Whatever that means, it doesn't mean anything because there's no live bullets, but he looks healthy.
14:20Boy, that is interesting, the earn the right to play thing because I can't really say, and I think under
14:27the circumstances, like, obviously the numbers are bad.
14:29I brought it up with Shador, but to go out there and even look like a quarterback at times, I
14:35got to give it to him and to absorb the hits that he took.
14:38Look, because he really didn't earn it last year.
14:41I mean, he was fourth on the depth chart.
14:43They traded away, they traded away.
14:47Flacco?
14:47No, before Flacco.
14:48They got rid of, why can't I think of the Pittsburgh kid?
14:53What am I?
14:55Kenny Pickett?
14:56Kenny Pickett.
14:57Yes.
14:57I just had to bring in.
14:58So, they get rid of Kenny Pickett because he was injured and, you know, they had four guys.
15:04All right.
15:04So, he moves up the depth chart.
15:06He goes from four to three.
15:07Well, they trade Joe Flacco, so he moves up the depth chart.
15:11Well, then, they're playing Dylan Gabriel.
15:14Dylan Gabriel has the concussion.
15:16Then he moves up the depth chart.
15:18Like, nothing was really earned last year.
15:21And I know I got into it with Ken.
15:22Ken's like, well, he wouldn't put him on the field.
15:24Who else was he going to put on the field?
15:25Like, who else was he going to, were they going to go and get somebody else from another practice squad
15:30or another?
15:30Like, no, that wasn't going to happen.
15:32So, he got in there.
15:34It looked kind of like I thought it was going to look.
15:36Pretty bad.
15:36You know, statistically, the eye test, they made some great throws late in the, obviously, the game against Tennessee.
15:44Made some great throws late.
15:45Also, threw one of the worst interceptions you'll ever see.
15:47I thought he ran himself into a lot of problems.
15:50I did think that he was courageous.
15:52Like, I couldn't believe that he kept getting up, kept challenging defenses.
15:56But, you know, late in the season, it's the Cincinnati game.
16:00I did not think he played well at all.
16:02And he came away with a win, right?
16:04The Pittsburgh game, I did not think he played well at all.
16:08But, you know, he ended up getting some Ws, leading the team.
16:12I do think that counts for something.
16:14But, of course, that coaching staff is gone.
16:16And now you have Todd Munkin that comes in here.
16:18And now he has a chance.
16:20Legitimately has a chance to earn the starting job.
16:23So I ask you, this offense, as you think it's going to look.
16:28Now, maybe it changes once you get out there and you see it a little more under the management of
16:35Todd Munkin here as they try to do.
16:37They've already put in the installs.
16:38But as it starts to look, when you see real 11-on-11, who is this offense going to be
16:43better suited for?
16:44Well, that's great.
16:45So here's the thing.
16:46So the offense is based on this.
16:48The offense is suited for both of them because it's really not a style.
16:52So if you think about what Kevin Stefanski, and I say this as a precursor, it's not better, it's different.
16:57Because everybody always thinks when the new guy comes in, the last guy stunk.
17:00Kevin had a lot of success with what he did.
17:02It didn't work out the last couple years, but he is a system-based guy, meaning he's going to call
17:07what he plays.
17:08He's going to call what he calls, and you've got to kind of fit into that.
17:11This new offense is based on players.
17:12So that being said, both Deshaun Watson and Shador Sanders, one of their better qualities is making plays when things
17:19break down, keeping the play alive, extending plays, throwing the ball vertically downfield, getting the ball to the best player's
17:28hands.
17:28So if you think about the Browns right now, their two best players on offense are Judkins and Fannin for
17:34me.
17:34They're going to touch it early on because that gives you the best chance to win.
17:37So until other guys prove that they can do it, the system doesn't matter, these two guys have got to
17:42touch it.
17:43So it really favors both of these guys because of the idea of we've got to throw it vertically, we've
17:48got to extend plays, and we've got to work outside of structure a lot of times when things break down.
17:53And we've got to get the ball to our best players.
17:54It's really, really simple when it comes down to it.
17:56This is not based on a system.
17:57This is based on players.
17:59That's the big difference in this offense.
18:01It suits both of them.
18:02We'll see what happens starting tomorrow.
18:03Well, when you break down the arms, so obviously Deshaun Watson has had the surgically repaired shoulder, and it clearly
18:11messed with him, right?
18:12Like, it clearly was not.
18:14The ball didn't come out the same way.
18:16Go look at the tape from him in Houston, especially those first two years, and go look at the way
18:21the ball comes out, and then look at any of his era in Cleveland so far.
18:26And then Shor comes in.
18:28Now, he was not projected to have some elite NFL arm.
18:32Maybe we're talking about a real first-round quarterback, aside from all the other reasons he might have slipped, if
18:38he would have had that arm.
18:39His athleticism, man, he got out of some crazy, crazy pass rushes, but he's not normally given credit for being
18:46like a freak, you know, freak athletically gifted guy.
18:51But yet, with that said, I saw him throw some beautiful deep balls last year, and then, you know, later
18:57in the year, it gets tougher because of the wins and in that stadium.
19:00But he still was able to complete some passes down the field, which kind of surprised me.
19:05How do you make, when you look at their arm, how do you evaluate the arm strength and how that
19:09could dictate things?
19:10Well, arm strength comes down to, a lot of it comes down to anticipation and do you know where you're
19:15going with the ball.
19:15And when you do that, your arm strength becomes better than it really is because you know exactly what the
19:20defense is going to do and where your guy's going to be.
19:22And if you can anticipate where you guys are going to be and throw the ball early, I'll go old
19:26school here with Dan Marino and Joe Montana.
19:28Not elated lead arms, right, even though Dan could zip it.
19:33It was the idea of if you know where you're going with the football and you anticipate it, that anticipation
19:38leads to arm talent.
19:40Now, there are guys like Josh Allen who can just say, you're open and I'm going to fire to you.
19:44But if you don't have that arm, you've got to be anticipatory and you've got to understand where people are
19:49going to be.
19:49That's what these guys have got to do better.
19:52That's what we'll, Deshaun, we'll see.
19:54Like I said, I thought it looked really good in the spring.
19:56That's always been Shador's strength is anticipation.
19:58So that's why his arm strength, even though it's not elite, he does throw with good anticipation.
20:03He's got to throw with better anticipation at the NFL level than he did at Colorado.
20:08That's where the improvement, the footwork, the anticipation, that's what needs to get back to what it was at Colorado
20:14if he's going to be a successful NFL quarterback.
20:16But that's really what arm strength is.
20:17It's just a part of it because if you don't have a rocket, you've got to know where people are
20:21and where defenders are going to be.