00:00Dan Lobby, Cleveland.com, joining us here on The Fan. Hello, Dan. How are you doing today?
00:04Hey, guys. How are you doing?
00:05We're good. Obviously, we're trying to figure out everything that happened and everything that went right at practice today.
00:11And I guess we'll just start here. Deshaun Watson, it seemed like he had a good day today. How would
00:17you rate his performance?
00:19Yeah, I thought he was fine. You know, I didn't think there was a whole lot out there today that
00:24was really impressive from either guy.
00:26I don't know that it was even all that conducive to either guy kind of putting on a show.
00:31It seemed like it was a little bit of a slower. I mean, the drills they were kind of running
00:34through weren't really full speed.
00:36There was obviously a lot of teamwork, and I thought the pace of practice was good.
00:39But it didn't feel like the last two days when there was a little more full speed work.
00:44But I thought Deshaun handled himself well today. I thought he made the throws he needed to make.
00:49You know, I think Shador had a couple of good throws as well.
00:52But yeah, I thought Deshaun today probably came away as the winner for whatever that was worth.
00:57Dan, it sounded like a lot of people probably came away with the first two days with Shador ahead,
01:01and now I'm here a lot of the same with that. You know, Deshaun wins today.
01:05Obviously, it's close. If you put somebody, just based on what your eyes were telling you in the lead right
01:09now,
01:09who is it and how close is that battle?
01:13I think what makes it hard is I think it goes beyond just what we're seeing on the field, right?
01:18So I think we're talking about, you know, guys that can, you know, the guy that can run the offense
01:22the best.
01:23The guy that can sort of, you know, make sure everybody's aligned right.
01:26The guy that's winning in the classroom.
01:28So I still think with all of that being said, I would kind of go to my default that I've
01:34had the last few weeks,
01:36which is Deshaun has a slight edge.
01:38But the fact that this thing is going to go into training camp tells me that Shador has closed,
01:43pretty much closed whatever gap there is.
01:45And so I think this thing is pretty neck and neck.
01:47I think whoever kind of comes out of the gate fast in training camp is going to have a chance
01:51to maybe seize this job.
01:52And I think it's open for both guys still.
01:55You've been around a lot of camps, obviously a lot of Kevin Stefanski camps, but a lot of camps in
01:59general.
02:00Is there, have you been impressed with Todd Munkin and how he's run this so far?
02:04It might just be too early for you to give us an actual answer,
02:07but I tend to feel like you can get a feel pretty early on whether or not it seems buttoned
02:11up and seems ready to go.
02:13I've been really impressed, actually, because I think this is exactly what this team needs right now.
02:18They need a guy that's going to make them be on the field, that's going to make them practice.
02:22You know, Todd today said, hey, there's not going to be any veteran days off.
02:25If the medical staff says a guy needs to be down, fine, but there's not going to be just veteran
02:30days off in training camp.
02:31So, you know, I don't think that necessarily means the way Kevin did it was wrong.
02:36There was some level of success there with Kevin's system.
02:39But I think this team needed a little bit of a kick.
02:41I think they needed somebody to come in and be like, listen, we're going to play football for two, two
02:46and a half hours a day.
02:48These practices are going to be hard.
02:49They're going to be physical.
02:51And the thing I like about it is, you know, they are paced well.
02:54They are organized.
02:55You know, when Freddie Kitchens tried to do this back in 2019, everything was a mess.
02:59Todd has a better grasp of kind of how to do this.
03:02And so I think we're seeing really physical, hard practices.
03:05And I think it's exactly what this football team needs right now.
03:10Everybody's kind of pointing to the quarterback battle and now going, well, maybe both guys just stink.
03:14Like that's a narrative that's sitting out there after this.
03:17And it seems like we have good plays, but then we have plays like the Deshaun interception to Ronnie Hickman
03:22yesterday.
03:23And Dan, what happened today with Shadori?
03:25The Mike Hall bat down, felt like he sat there with his arm up lazily for four seconds and then
03:30Shadori hit him right in the hand.
03:33Yeah.
03:34And well, look, I think that's what Todd was kind of saying, you know, after practice in some ways is
03:38like Shadori has made progress, but he's got to process quicker.
03:41He's got to get the ball out quicker.
03:43He's got to be more decisive.
03:44Those are the things that he needs to come back after this six week break.
03:48And, you know, those things have to continue to advance and those things have to get better.
03:52And I thought that play and again, it was a half speed play.
03:56You know, maybe that thing gets whistled dead in training camp when you actually have pads on and guys can
04:00rush the passer and all of that.
04:02But that was a situation where he just kind of held the ball too long and then just sort of
04:06made a lazy throw.
04:07Like you've got to be better than that.
04:09Now, he made some good throws today, too.
04:11It wasn't just a play like that.
04:12But I think, you know, look, if you're expecting to go out there and see top five level quarterback play,
04:18that's not what you're going to get from these guys.
04:20So I think you have to take that into account, too.
04:22You know, what are the ceilings of each of these quarterbacks this season?
04:26You're just hoping one of these guys can give you, I don't know, top 15, top 16-ish level quarterback
04:33play to be able to run your offense and let this defense maybe win you some football games.
04:37So I think there's going to be some times when it's ragged out there.
04:41Who's been one of your breakout players over the past couple of games or practices that you've seen and been
04:45like, I didn't see this coming and I'm pleasantly surprised?
04:50You know, honestly, a guy that I don't know if I'd call him a breakout because he's been around a
04:54little while.
04:55But I think Ronnie Hickman has actually had a pretty good camp at the safety position.
05:00You know, we saw him get an interception the other day.
05:02He seems really kind of in control.
05:04And like I know he's been a starter for this football team for a few years.
05:08But, you know, I've always kind of wondered, is that a position they can upgrade?
05:11Is that an area where they could be a little bit better?
05:14And even last year when he started 17 games, it was still kind of like, OK, is it just because
05:18maybe they don't have a better option right now?
05:20Now, he's playing on a free agent tender this season.
05:23He just signed it today.
05:24And I actually think he's had a really good camp.
05:27So I don't know if that qualifies as like the breakout name you're looking for.
05:31But I think that's the guy that I'm kind of circling, like, can he kind of lock down that free
05:36safety position?
05:37Because this is a defense that wants to have three safeties on the field.
05:40And I don't think Grant is best at that position.
05:43I don't think Emmanuel McNeil-Warren necessarily is best at that deep safety.
05:48But Ronnie Hickman, if he can kind of lock that down and make a leap here this year, I think
05:53that makes this defense a whole lot better in the back end.
05:56Dan, JP and I were talking a little bit about Isaiah Bond.
05:59And obviously, you know, you hear the things.
06:01You watch a lot of the clips out at training camp.
06:02He's making plays.
06:03He looks like he's put on good weight.
06:06Part of the hang-up for me, though, is is there actually going to be an opportunity for him, room
06:12to take over any of the spots in this wide receiver room?
06:15Do you think he can actually get onto the field and become a top two to three option for the
06:20Browns this year?
06:21I think he'll have a chance.
06:23And you're right.
06:23It's going to get crowded fast because, obviously, they've been very, very adamant about the role that they believe Jerry
06:29Judy has.
06:30You know, Casey Concepcion is going to have a big role.
06:33And, of course, Denzel Boston, too.
06:35But I'll say this.
06:36With the two rookies, there's no guarantee that those guys are going to necessarily get on the field and play,
06:42you know, every snap offensively or play a whole load of wide receiver snaps early in the season.
06:46I think Isaiah Bond is going to be really useful for this team, especially as a downfield target.
06:51And, you know, I was a little cynical when they brought him in.
06:55I thought last year, given the circumstances and sort of what he had to deal with and not having even
07:00a training camp, really, I thought he acclimated well.
07:04And, you know, to go back to your breakout player question, I think he'd be in that category, too, in
07:09this minicamp.
07:10He's one of the guys that you walk away from thinking that arrow's pointing up for him.
07:14So I think he's going to have a chance to get out there because, you know, you're going to need
07:18to play four wide receivers at times here.
07:21And, you know, I'd certainly put him ahead of guys like, you know, Cedric Tillman, Jamari Thrash, some of these
07:26other returning veterans.
07:27So they'll find a space for Isaiah Bond.
07:29Dan Lobby, Cleveland.com, joining us here on the Wise Heart Right.
07:32We Make It Right.
07:33Call Kyle Right Hotline.
07:35It's funny.
07:35We also then talked about Jerry Judy and the idea of whether or not in the final year, is he
07:40a deadline trade candidate for Andrew Barry?
07:43If, like, the idea is, is that Barry typically, and use the case of Maury Cooper, for instance, he just
07:49trades these guys at certain points before the deadline.
07:52If you're not going to re-sign him, or is this the type of situation where Jerry plays well, maybe
07:57Jerry Judy stays at Brown for a long time?
08:00Yeah, I mean, I think the problem there is if he becomes a trade candidate, that probably means he's playing
08:04pretty good football for you.
08:05So I don't know if you would want to, I don't know if you would want to necessarily give that
08:09up.
08:09Now, you know, you have to sort of figure out, like, how consistent is he going to be?
08:14Because obviously he had, we've had one good year and then he had a bad year.
08:18And, you know, unfortunately, when you look at the body of work, the year he had last year is a
08:22little closer to what he's been in his career.
08:24So he's going to have to try and get closer to what he was two years ago before I think
08:28you could even think about trading him.
08:30And then if he is at that level, you know, even with Casey Concepcion and Denzel Boston and Isaiah Bond,
08:35do you really want to weaken your wide receiver core if he's playing well enough to maybe bring something back
08:41in a trade?
08:42So I think they'll be able to find room for all of these guys.
08:45I really do. And I think they all do such different things that I think Todd Munkin is going to
08:49be able to find ways to get them all on the field.
08:52And if Jerry Judy is actually playing well enough to where you could get real value back for him in
08:57a trade,
08:57I don't know that you'd want to pull the trigger on that anyway.
09:00Because, you know, we know what happens at wide receiver. Guys get hurt. Guys miss games.
09:04So you need as many bodies there as you can get.
09:09We heard Todd Munkin today mention a little bit about the lack of veteran rest days that we're going to
09:14have in training camp.
09:14The fact that they will not exist. The guys will suit up and maybe they have lighter workloads, but they're
09:18going to be out there.
09:19This is obviously something that Todd has been criticized for with the Ravens, the entire crew there of making guys
09:25and maybe making them more prone to injury.
09:27How much of that then creeps into Browns fans mind about, you know,
09:31maybe there are some guys on this team who could use the day off during training camps.
09:36You know, look, there's always going to be risk there. And you're right.
09:38Maybe it'll backfire and we could be sitting there in October and be like, you know what, maybe maybe that
09:44training camp was a little bit too hard.
09:45But I just always go back to kind of what I said earlier, which is this idea of I think
09:50this is what this football team needs,
09:51especially with as young as they are.
09:53And I always felt like there were times over the last few years where, you know,
09:58these guys carried themselves like they've really done something, you know, like they've won game,
10:02like they've won Super Bowl, like they've made deep playoff runs, you know, guys skipping OTAs and things like that.
10:09I think Todd Munkin is instilling kind of this mentality of like, you got to go out there and earn
10:14it every day.
10:14You guys haven't done anything in this league.
10:16Like, you know, we're going to, the goal is to win football games and that starts in the spring.
10:22That starts in the summer.
10:23So, yes, obviously Baltimore has had a ton of injuries and maybe that's because of the physical practices they run.
10:30But I just think this football team needs this right now.
10:32I think, as Mason Graham said a few weeks ago, the best way to get better at football is to
10:37play football.
10:37And I think this team needs to just play some football this summer.
10:40How was your first impression of Jared Verse?
10:44He's impressive.
10:45You know, we saw him again with no pads.
10:47It's hard to really get a real read on him, but he was getting in the backfield.
10:51And, you know, I've had an opportunity to watch some of the, some of his games last year, obviously.
10:55And I think he's going to be, I think he's going to be really good for this team.
10:59Now, he's not going to be Miles Garrett.
11:02That's one thing that, you know, Andrew Barry has sort of been doing his tour and he's made it very
11:06clear that Jared Verse is the reason,
11:08the only reason they made this trade because they got a player like that back.
11:11And I think he is really good and I think he's got the potential to be a 10 to 12
11:16sack guy.
11:17But I do think people need to remember he's not going to be Miles Garrett.
11:21There aren't many guys like that in the world.
11:22They're going to need other guys like Mason Graham and Malik Collins on the interior, Alex Wright, Isaiah McGuire on
11:28the other side.
11:28Those guys need to make leaps this year because Jared Verse isn't going to carry your pass rush game like
11:33Miles Garrett did,
11:34even if he is going to be your number one, you know, edge rusher.
11:37And I think he can, again, I think he can be a 10 to 12 sack guy.
11:42I want to take it back to the quarterbacks for just a second because I know Todd mentioned today,
11:46kind of these guys separating themselves when they get to play on the field.
11:51Do you take that as, you know, maybe joint practices or these guys competing and actually playing or is Todd
11:57maybe referencing something a little bit further
11:59and this thing could last all the way into the preseason and that's what he's planning on?
12:04I'm not going to rule anything out on that.
12:06Now, I think Todd in his heart of hearts, I think he would have loved to have a starter already.
12:11And so I think he probably doesn't want this thing to bleed too much into the preseason.
12:15I don't think he wants to be going into week two of the preseason not knowing who his starter is.
12:20And obviously, that's your joint practice week.
12:22And I think those joint practices are more beneficial if you have a clear idea of who your number one
12:27is.
12:27Now, it might be a little bit like last year where there wasn't a starter officially named yet,
12:31but it was pretty clear that Joe Flacco was the guy when they were practicing against Philly.
12:36I think that's best for everybody involved.
12:38But Todd Munkin is making it very clear.
12:40The fact that he has sort of pivoted and said, you know, we're not naming a starter right now.
12:45It's telling you he's not going to rush it just for the sake of rushing it.
12:48He's going to make someone show him, I can be the starting quarterback for this football team.
12:53He's not going to name a guy just to name a guy.
12:55Unless we get to week one and he hasn't named a guy yet, then you've got to start somebody.
13:00But I don't think it's going to go that far.
13:02All right, Dan.
13:03Did you think the quarterbacks yesterday in speaking to the media,
13:05were they a little too warm and fuzzy about this whole competition?
13:08Did you want them to have like the Vikings quarterback approach where they just seem like they hate each other?
13:13Or were you satisfied with how they approached it?
13:16I actually don't mind that they were a little buddy-buddy about it.
13:20Because I think the reality of that room is, at some point, somebody's going to win this job.
13:25And that means that the jobs of everyone else in that room becomes doing everything you can to support that
13:30starting quarterback
13:31and get him ready to play.
13:32And that's in the best interest of the Cleveland Browns.
13:35So I didn't really have an issue with it.
13:37I actually think the whole Vikings thing, I think that's just a bad vibes thing.
13:41And I don't like that.
13:42I like it when the vibes are good around the quarterback room because that's the most important room in the
13:47building.
13:47So I didn't have an issue with them being kind of buddy-buddy about it.
13:51And listen, I saw Deshaun Watson talking to and dapping up Deion Jr. when he was here the last few
13:56days.
13:57So, I mean, that's real with how these guys are talking about each other.
14:00They do get along.
14:01But I don't have an issue with it because I just think the whole, like, Kyler-JJ thing, I don't
14:08know if that's good for a locker room.
14:10Yeah, I tend to agree.
14:11We like the good vibes around here, Dan.
14:13You brought some good vibes today.
14:14We appreciate it, as always.
14:15And we'll catch up with you later.
14:17Thanks, Dan.
14:18Yeah, thanks a lot, guys.
14:19All right, Dan Lobby right there, Cleveland.com.
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