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00:00That was Jason Lloyd, if you missed it.
00:02Again, rewind function on the Odyssey app.
00:05He weighed in.
00:06That's powered by integrated restorations.
00:08And that is what we absolutely love this time of year.
00:12Is getting our powered bys in.
00:14Yeah, heck yeah.
00:16Appreciate that.
00:17Appreciate the support.
00:18No Ken today, no Ken this week.
00:21We've got Lance Reisland, who is in.
00:24We call him the coach.
00:25He's going to be covering training camp.
00:26He's going to be out there starting tomorrow, right?
00:29Correct.
00:30You will be out there tomorrow.
00:31You'll be giving us all the updates.
00:33You'll be doing interviews.
00:34You'll be tandem reporting with Daryl Ryder, our Browns beat reporter.
00:40He was in yesterday.
00:41So, look, it's the one storyline that most everybody is going to care about.
00:46If you were to power rank them, this is the one, right?
00:49The quarterback competition.
00:51Even when the quarterbacks are perceived to be this bad, which is, you know,
00:58I would think if you were to pull people, even in Cleveland, most would assume,
01:03oh boy, this could be a rough year quarterback-wise.
01:05Maybe there's some hope with Shador because he only played seven starts last year.
01:10They did not get him ready to play football.
01:12It was a ridiculous situation all the way around.
01:15The team stunk around him, and the embattled coach ends up getting fired at the end of the year.
01:21Now, we've got a real offseason.
01:23Now, we've got a real quarterback competition, not whatever the joke that somehow they were in that predicament last year
01:30with four QBs battling for two jobs.
01:33It was just weird.
01:34So, given all of that, we know the microscope is going to be on the quarterbacks in this situation.
01:41You heard what Jason Lloyd just said, which I think is being echoed by most.
01:47Not you, though.
01:49You seem to take issue with the thought that one guy's been bad and is a veteran,
01:54and it's been like five to six years since he's been any good, so why bother?
01:59You have been hearing you from moment one talk about this.
02:04Why are you so passionate that it isn't just start the younger dude?
02:10Well, first of all, it starts with, again, what is the ultimate goal?
02:13The ultimate goal has got to be win games.
02:15The ultimate goal can't be what it gives you for the future.
02:17It's got to be what did he give me against Jacksonville.
02:20That's where it starts for me.
02:21It always starts with winning.
02:22Then it starts with if you go in with the idea that he stinks,
02:25and the thing that I get over and over and over again, we know what he can do.
02:30No, we don't.
02:31We know what he can do in Kevin Stefanski's offense.
02:33We know that he's struggled.
02:35Everything that people say about him is absolutely right.
02:37He's struggled in his time here in Cleveland.
02:40He's not taking a snap with live bullets, with pads on, in this scheme,
02:45with Todd Munkin, Schweitzer, this scheme, having more people.
02:50He's never taken a snap.
02:51Now, that doesn't mean Shador won't be the quarterback,
02:53but if you go in with the idea of I don't want to see Deshaun,
02:57I know what he can do.
02:58No, you don't.
02:59You don't have any idea what he can do now.
03:02Now, he might be bad.
03:03That's not saying, but I'm saying when you go in, there's that, once again,
03:07that conditional, you know, that bias, that conditional bias where I'm going to say,
03:14no matter what it is now, if you go to practice and you say he stinks,
03:17he's going to make some bad throws, and those will be the ones that will be posted.
03:19Those will be the ones people talk about.
03:21They're not going to look at the entire practice.
03:23They're going to look at what they want to see.
03:25That's the problem I have.
03:26That's what you have to do as an evaluator.
03:27Say, I'm going to take this whole thing.
03:29Now, I'm going in with, I'm not having conditional bias.
03:32I'm not having any bias.
03:33If Shador plays well, I'm going to say he plays well.
03:36If he needs some work, I'm going to say, this is what I thought he did poorly.
03:38It's the same thing with Deshaun Watson.
03:40But I am going to evaluate what they're both doing moving forward.
03:44Now, that's what happened in the past.
03:45That doesn't mean anything to Todd Monk.
03:47And if Todd Monk was hired to win games and not be a pawn for the next coach,
03:52then that's what he's thinking as well.
03:53He doesn't care who the quarterback is, who helps me win in Jacksonville.
03:57That has, that's been lost here in Cleveland with the Browns.
04:00Winning has to be the priority, in my opinion.
04:02Well, so this is what I find so fascinating about this.
04:052-1-6-4-7-4-0-0-92.
04:07Should they just start Shador because he's younger and younger guys tend to have more promise?
04:13I think this is the difference big time in a player that's drafted first round versus fifth round.
04:19Because I could see you, based on what you just said, I think you would be consistent with this messaging,
04:26regardless of where quarterbacks were drafted.
04:28But we do know that guys that are drafted earlier have more of a leash.
04:33There's more of an investment in an organization.
04:36And in this case, the full investment, one of the all-time investments,
04:41even though he wasn't a draft pick of the Browns, was obviously Deshaun Watson.
04:45But the owner is on record saying it was a failure.
04:48They ripped his signage from the stadium.
04:51They don't market Deshaun Watson.
04:54If he's the starter week one, you won't see Deshaun Watson in any of the team's marketing on social media.
04:59You won't because there's baggage there.
05:01And I thought, because the organization had moved on from him, maybe not physically,
05:07but the ethos of the Browns, it kind of felt to me like they had moved on from him.
05:13So I had discounted him all along.
05:15The best thing to ever happen to him is Todd Munkin.
05:19Because Todd Munkin is coming in thinking like you.
05:22He is coming in going, all right, you guys hired me.
05:25I'm not here to tank.
05:26I'm not here.
05:27This is my first and obviously only shot to be a head coach in the NFL.
05:31I've been passed over so many times.
05:33Like, I'm going to show you guys.
05:34I'm going to coach him up.
05:35I don't care what anybody else wants.
05:39Now, in some situations, the front office dictates,
05:42hey, you got a guy that's drafted in the first round.
05:45We're going to make sure.
05:46We're going to absolutely make sure so we don't let a guy go
05:48and he becomes Sam Darnold years from now and wins the Super Bowl.
05:51Like, we can't have that happen on our watch.
05:53That is immaterial in this case to Todd Munkin,
05:58who I think is in 100% agreement with you.
06:01Well, and all that stuff you said about the signage,
06:03in my mind I'm thinking I don't care.
06:05I care about none of that.
06:06Todd Munkin doesn't care if the signage is ripped down.
06:09I could care about any of that.
06:11Now, Lima, the sports talk show host, I'll do whole shows about the signage.
06:15Now, here's the thing, too.
06:16When you think about what they're trying to do,
06:19and if you're saying, so I will say this without hesitation,
06:23from high school, college, pro, if there's not alignment from top to bottom
06:26and your football guy's not making the football decisions that's made from above you
06:30that doesn't make football decisions, you're not going to win anyway.
06:33So if somebody's being told to play because where they were drafted
06:37or how much money they make or whatever it may be, not on merit,
06:41you're in big trouble anyway, right?
06:43Because in the end, players know.
06:45In the end, we always talk about player's coach.
06:47You know what a player's coach is?
06:48A guy who maximizes my talent and helps me win.
06:50A guy in the NFL maximizing my talent, gets me the next contract, helps us win.
06:54That's what a player's coach is.
06:55It's not about being best friends.
06:57So for me, none of that means anything.
06:59The idea that we have to see what he can do.
07:03That's what the spring, this is about winning football games.
07:07And it could be Shador, but the idea if it's Deshaun that I'm not as excited,
07:11that doesn't make any sense to me.
07:12If you're thinking what's best for the football team,
07:14winning games is the best thing for the football team.
07:17And whoever does that, right, don't have bias.
07:20Whoever gives you the best chance, that's who you want as your quarterback.
07:23At every position, not just quarterback.
07:25But this is what is so interesting about this situation here to me,
07:29is that in most cases, when you trade Miles Garrett,
07:33and maybe Denzel Ward is going to get traded,
07:35normally the front office, while they'll never tell a coach to lose games,
07:39because that's insane, and guys get injured,
07:42if you're going to go out there thinking that way.
07:44That's just not how any coach would treat it.
07:47But typically, there would be the dictation, hey, play younger guys.
07:51This is about developing.
07:52We're not a Super Bowl team this year.
07:53We're not in contention.
07:54But the minute you hire Todd Munkin, he is not a puppet.
07:58That guy is not.
07:59He is a guy that, when he is interviewing for the Browns job,
08:02and he told us as much when he came in studio,
08:04like, you got his unbridled honesty.
08:06He was not trying to curry favor and to get the job,
08:09say a bunch of nice things about all these different guys
08:12so he can get the job and cozy.
08:14That's just not Todd Munkin.
08:15I can't see that in a million years.
08:17So no front office is going to tell Todd Munkin at 60-some years old,
08:22this late in his career,
08:24nobody's going to tell Todd Munkin who to play at quarterback.
08:28That's just not happening.
08:29Well, and there's comfort in his own skin.
08:32Because he's done it so long, he's had success.
08:34So there's Stenson Bennett at Georgia.
08:37There's Lamar Jackson, who I think he has turned into a top-ten pocket guy
08:41besides being outstanding outside the pocket.
08:43So he has credibility in what he's saying.
08:46And when you try to tell a guy like Todd Munkin,
08:49you hope that was a non-negotiable.
08:50And again, when people say they're tanking without tanking,
08:54you don't get to turn it on then.
08:55You say, you know what, we got our draft pick now.
08:57We're going to win.
08:59No, you've practiced poor practice habits.
09:03Your enthusiasm, your attention to detail.
09:05Who wants to come play for a team when things go wrong?
09:07We're going to tank so we can get new picks.
09:09That's not how it works.
09:10Great organizations don't rebuild.
09:13They retool.
09:14And the Browns have to get to the point where that happens because they're winning.
09:18You retool because you're winning.
09:20Not because you're building draft capital.
09:21Not because you're constantly trying to get new players.
09:24When things go bad, we'll get new ones.
09:27No, it's grinding it out, putting a guy in charge,
09:29and allowing him to make the football decisions.
09:31I got to do a Carson Wentz discussion off the air.
09:35That wasn't on the bingo card.
09:37We have been your home for Carson Wentz in Cleveland.
09:39Yeah, I don't know if you remember this.
09:41When the Browns were just really, really bad, which I guess whatever.
09:44All the years.
09:45I know, it's tough to parse over time.
09:48But when they were really bad and we had just started the show,
09:52you know, I was kind of doing the thing I do now.
09:55Every quarterback but the ones we have, right?
09:57And so I saw Carson Wentz coming to the league immediately and was awesome when he started out.
10:03I saw Deshaun Watson coming to the league immediately.
10:06And maybe it's one thing I've got to learn.
10:08Like maybe, you know, Jaden Daniels, like he came in the league immediately.
10:13Good.
10:13CJ Stroud immediately.
10:15But clearly there's a push and pull and, you know, teams kind of figure guys out.
10:20With Carson Wentz, I just think the back issue, like the back thing was a pretty big deal.
10:26It doesn't get brought up enough.
10:27Like he basically broke his back.
10:28It's hard to come back from that.
10:30And then I was like, sounded like from his teammates that he couldn't really handle
10:35having his backup win the Super Bowls.
10:38You know, remember Carson was like on the way to winning an MVP.
10:42And then he goes down and his backup wins the Super Bowl.
10:45And I think it's easy to discount, like psychologically, that would mess with you a little bit.
10:51It kind of would.
10:53Well, I'll say this, and I'm going to go in the weeds here a little bit, so I apologize.
10:56But now we'll get back to Browns, I know.
10:58But I will say this about Carson Wentz, about a lot of rookie quarterbacks.
11:01A lot of times when they're really good early, it's because they're relying on what they know.
11:05And remember, when we go to work every day, you and I and Owen and everybody else, this
11:11is what these defensive coordinators do.
11:12They figure out ways to, now there's film on you.
11:15And when you have film on you, there's a next step you've got to take.
11:18And a lot of times, quarterbacks are unable to take that next step.
11:21They're still good, all right?
11:22And they're still able to make plays.
11:24But that's what separates those guys in years two and three.
11:26Because those defensive coordinators, for example, they're going to take away checkdowns.
11:30They're going to take away things.
11:31We'll use Shador as an example.
11:33What Shador did well last year, throwing the ball vertically, things like that.
11:37They're going to try to take those things away from Shador.
11:39They're going to take away what the quarterbacks do best.
11:42That's the next step for quarterbacks.
11:44I did see, and again, people hate when I bring up numbers because they'll say context.
11:48Well, Chuck did a good job.
11:49He gave all the context.
11:50I don't think I need to say it every time that everything fell apart around Shador.
11:54I don't think I need to say it.
11:55Or Dylan Gabriel.
11:56Yeah.
11:56Or Joe Flacco.
11:58Like, I don't think I need to say it every time.
12:00But apparently the callers want me to say it every single time.
12:04Ross Tucker joined the Afternoon Boys yesterday.
12:09And I thought this is something that I think I have echoed.
12:14And I'm curious what Coach Riz's studio thinks of this.
12:19Because Ross was asked, do you think starting Deshaun Watson is the right thing to do at the start of
12:26the year?
12:26If you want to feel like you've given Deshaun every opportunity, and then you want to feel like you've given
12:32Shador enough of an opportunity so that you've had a big enough sample size, I think that would be the
12:39route to go.
12:39It would feel a little bit awkward if you went the other way.
12:43If you start Shador in the opener and it's not going well, and then you put in Deshaun at that
12:48point, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.
12:51For Deshaun, it doesn't feel like there would be a super long leash.
12:55It feels like it would be, let's give him four or five games under Munkin and see if there's anything
13:01there.
13:01And if there's not, then give Shador enough of a sample to really give him a chance to grow during
13:07those games, grow under Munkin, and see if he gets to the point where by the end of the year,
13:11we're like, you know what?
13:12I think he can do it.
13:13I don't think we need to take a quarterback.
13:15We think Shador can be the guy.
13:17So here is kind of my thought on this, and you tell me how dumb this is for whatever reason,
13:23because you're the actual football guy.
13:25I mean, we've already had nitty-gritty football from you earlier in the show.
13:28We've also had the general manager of the Browns reference you before on the show.
13:33Apparently, he listens to you.
13:35Maybe, you know, you might be working with Andrew Barry one day.
13:38But my thought was that I already know if Shador starts the year, wins the job, all this excitement, and
13:45then they start one and five and he gets benched.
13:48I know what I'm going to hear from everybody and his fan base.
13:51I'm going to hear, well, the offensive line was just totally rebuilt.
13:56They weren't going to gel before week one.
13:59And he's relying on first or second year pass catchers across the board.
14:05And his running backs coming off a devastating injury last year, and it was going to take him time to
14:11get – I can already hear the excuses.
14:13And a new head coach, and everything's new on offense, and I just know that's going to be said.
14:19So my thought was, all right, start Deshaun Watson.
14:23I'm assuming it's not going to end well.
14:25I know coaches are not going to do that.
14:28But me, the Sports Talk radio host, is going to assume it's not going to go well.
14:32And then Shador can come in, and maybe these guys can gel.
14:35Poke some holes in my thought.
14:37Well, initially, it's confirmation bias, right?
14:39We assume that Deshaun is going to get hurt.
14:41We assume that Deshaun is going to play like, you know what?
14:44I assume he's going to get hurt.
14:46That's the first thing we don't do as coaches.
14:47Hold on.
14:48I assume he's going to get hurt, and I assume if it's at home, the fans are going to cheer.
14:52And I assume Ken Carman is going to be up there in his private booth and is going to say
14:56the fans didn't do that.
14:57You know how I can assume that?
14:59Because I saw it last year.
15:01That's exactly what happened.
15:02Anyway, go ahead.
15:02So, once again, you have to take it all in and listen.
15:06That's for me.
15:07We don't think like that.
15:08And if you want to be successful in the game of football, you don't care what happened in the past.
15:14You don't assume injury.
15:15You don't assume people play bad.
15:16That's the first thing.
15:17Secondly, it's saying, well, let's start Deshaun and let's – quarterbacks always get too much credit.
15:22They always get too much blame.
15:23That comes with the territory as a head coach, a coordinator, and a quarterback.
15:27So, all those things, those are all true.
15:29Everything that happened to Deshaun last year, everything that happened to Shador last year, that's all true.
15:35No one cares.
15:36Figure it out.
15:37Find a way to win.
15:37Because the bottom line is when people say, well, we're going to take a look at him for four or
15:41five games or then we'll go to this guy.
15:43That's not doing what you should do as a football coach.
15:46What helps me win in Jacksonville?
15:49That's what you can control.
15:50All the other stuff is all noise.
15:52It's all noise.
15:54It is a lot of noise.
15:55Anyways, I'm looking at it from a just my expectation.
15:59You're right.
16:00There is confirmation bias.
16:01It's been so long.
16:03You've got to remember, I mean, for fans of the show who have been with us a long time, I've
16:07been lobbying for Deshaun Watson for a year.
16:09When stuff started to go south before the accusations, I was like, can we get in on this?
16:14Can we procure a top five quarterback right now?
16:18I know he's on a bad team, but we had seen him play at such a high level.
16:21I'm like, can we get in on this if things are really going south there in Houston?
16:26Little did I know at the time what was simmering behind the scenes.
16:30And even after all of that, look, I threw my hands up in the air.
16:33I'll admit it.
16:33I was desperate.
16:34I'm like, just go get him.
16:36I'll have to swallow it.
16:38I'll have to put up with what's going to be said about him.
16:42In the end, like 13 teams were still going after Deshaun Watson.
16:45It is a cutthroat business.
16:47I'll admit it.
16:48Ken stood tall.
16:49I'll give him credit.
16:50Ken never wanted to be in the Deshaun Watson business, even when he was good.
16:53He never wanted to be in on it.
16:54So Ken has been proven correct in all of this.
16:57This is going to go down in history as one of the worst transactions in sports, even if,
17:02by the way, Deshaun plays well this year.
17:05It's not going to matter.
17:06They're probably going to move on from him.
17:08I know what Andrew Barry said when he was with us on the air.
17:12Was he in studio?
17:13I don't remember.
17:13But he said that there could be a future with Deshaun Watson.
17:17That would be the most stunned in the history of sports in Cleveland, if that was the case.
17:22So he plays well this year.
17:23And they signed him to a contract.
17:24And they do.
17:24And he plays outstanding.
17:26He looks healthy.
17:26That would be stunned.
17:27So that, once again, though, for me, that's taking away from winning.
17:30You're saying, you know what?
17:31You won a bunch of games this year.
17:32We made a big run this year.
17:33We don't care because your past was terrible.
17:36That's not really how I think.
17:38I think, all right, all that didn't matter.
17:40It doesn't matter.
17:40Everything that everybody has said about all these guys, it means nothing coming into 2026.
17:45Do you not talk to the fans of Cleveland?
17:48They want nothing to do.
17:50Most of them.
17:51I can't speak for everyone.
17:52People corrected Ken when he tried to speak for everyone earlier this week.
17:56Do your buddies, anybody you know who's a season ticket holder and who goes down to that stadium,
18:02do you know any of them that want Deshaun Watson to not only play but play well enough to where
18:08we have to sign him to a contract
18:10and he's going to be here for the next five years?
18:13Do you know anybody?
18:14Well, I will say this.
18:15The people that I know that know how I think know I wouldn't care.
18:19And they probably wouldn't say anything to me anyway because they know that's not how I think.
18:23They know that I'm more about like, hey, whoever's playing well for me right now helps me win week one.
18:28That's who I'm playing.
18:29Now, that doesn't make everybody happy.
18:30And I understand what everybody's thought process that they have of Deshaun Watson.
18:35That makes complete sense.
18:37That is all true.
18:38That means nothing starting tomorrow.
18:40It means absolutely nothing starting tomorrow.
18:42And that's how good it's like Taylor Greene.
18:44I love Dylan Gabriel.
18:47I think Taylor Greene brings more to this offense right now than Dylan Gabriel.
18:50Because for me, as much as I like Dylan Gabriel, I'm about winning.
18:54And whatever you've got to do to maximize your 53-man roster and produce wins handles all this other stuff.
19:01Handles the draft pick acquisitions and all this stuff that we talk about that's not about winning.
19:08Winning has to be the first thing out of everybody's mouth.
19:112-1-6-4-7-4-double-0-92.
19:16Any season ticket holders want them to sign Deshaun Watson to an extension?
19:20Jim in Concord.
19:22What's going on, Jim?
19:23How are you?
19:23Hey, how you doing?
19:26Good morning, Jim.
19:28Yeah.
19:28Anyways, I'm going to say I was probably one of the first callers that wanted Shudder Sanders when he was
19:34still at Jackson State.
19:36I watched that because of Travis Hunter.
19:39I was interested in the kid that played both ways, and I saw how good Shudder was.
19:43But this year, with the new offensive line and new pieces and parts, I almost hope Deshaun does start the
19:52first few games,
19:53is let him get his butt kicked a little bit until the line gets cohesive, and then bring in the
19:58kid.
20:00All right, Jim.
20:01Well, thank you for the call.
20:02I mean, this is what the kind of the issue that I think, yes, I'm assuming.
20:07I'm assuming that when you overhaul an offensive line, I know Houston tried to do this last year.
20:13The Bears, to some extent, tried to do this.
20:16And mixed outcomes, right?
20:18Mixed results.
20:20Man, to go 5-5 out.
20:23And that way is so brutally hard.
20:26Could you see Munkin pulling this off to where they do go with five new guys, and it works?
20:34To start the week one, they look like they are, you know, a well-oiled machine.
20:40Could you see that?
20:41Well, I'm going to say yes.
20:42And here's why.
20:43Because you brought in Warhop.
20:45And once again, I always think it's amazing when you're optimistic, you're not realistic, right?
20:49Because the only time that you, especially when you criticize a team, think about the call we just had.
20:54Jim, I appreciate the call.
20:55But think about this.
20:56Let's start Deshaun Watson so he gets his butt kicked.
20:59What good organizations think like that, right?
21:02We don't think like that as coaches.
21:03What we're thinking is, yes, we absolutely can make this line work.
21:06We absolutely have more out weapons.
21:09Now, that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to happen.
21:11But what is your other choice?
21:12What is your other choice to go, you know what?
21:14We are having a new offensive line.
21:15Let's start Deshaun because he's a veteran.
21:17Let's get his butt kicked and we know we're going to lose.
21:20That mentality, you don't turn that off.
21:22Your mentality has to be, this guy's playing because he's better.
21:25This guy's playing because he helps me win week one.
21:28That's why I don't think if Shador is not the starter, it's okay.
21:32When he beats Deshaun out, then he's the starter.
21:36That's when he plays.
21:37Not because you're taking a look at him, because he's the guy who earned it.
21:40I saw some really impactful plays last year.
21:42When you go back to stats, that's why stats don't always tell the story.
21:45He made some real impact last year.
21:47He's got to be more consistent.
21:48His footwork has to get better.
21:49He has to not hold on to the ball.
21:51All those things are very true.
21:52He did make some great impact.
21:54He doesn't stink.
21:55He's not an all-pro yet.
21:57And he's not terrible.
21:58He's in the middle.
21:59And that's where the people have to understand, for me, all that's great.
22:04How do we win week one?
22:05If you keep that in perspective, it makes a lot more sense.
22:07It's a lot easier to understand, in my opinion.
22:09All right.
22:09Now, you were able to see some of the stuff that they were doing when they were in camp
22:13and the installs, the Todd Munkin identity on offense.
22:18Does it suit one of these guys over the other, at least right now?
22:21I know it's early.
22:22No.
22:23No, I think it's very good for both because it demands that you extend plays.
22:28You play within the system.
22:29We saw Shador do that last year.
22:31You play within the system.
22:32Then you have to extend plays.
22:33You have to throw the ball vertically.
22:34You have to get the ball to your best players.
22:37But the foundation of his offense starts with the run game.
22:41It starts with physicality up front.
22:43It starts with gap schemes and zone schemes.
22:45It starts with this player's over plays.
22:47It's not only just for receivers and running backs and quarterbacks.
22:49This is for his offensive line.
22:51So if you look at what he did against Cleveland when he was with the Ravens,
22:55Cleveland likes to get upfield.
22:56He would allow the defensive line to get upfield and trap them and counter and crunch.
23:00He's very, very talented at what he does as a play caller.
23:03But it starts with the run game.
23:04It starts with being second and five because at second and five,
23:08you get to dictate as an offense coordinator what you're calling.
23:11That's what he's trying to do.
23:12He's trying to win first down just like defense is trying to do,
23:14and so he can dictate.
23:16That's where big plays come from, second down and medium.
23:18That's where big plays because you can run or pass.
23:20I know statistically.
23:22Now, it's great to have you in because you actually break down the film,
23:24but statistically, Shador against the zone was dead last in the NFL.
23:30Now, it's a rookie.
23:31So that makes sense, right?
23:33Like you would expect even Patrick Mahomes famously came into the league
23:38saying, I couldn't read defenses.
23:39I have no idea.
23:40I couldn't even identify the linebacker.
23:42Yeah, he burst onto the scene even with a year and was able to figure that stuff
23:48out over time.
23:49Today, he can clearly read all of those things.
23:52So is that what he's going to see this year?
23:56If he's starting week one, he wins the job.
23:58Do you think Munkin will have those zone beaters?
24:02Will Shador be able to, in this window of a training camp,
24:07be able to change and get better against that stuff?
24:10Well, the way I look at man versus zone, and this is a lot of quarterback coaches
24:13that are a lot smarter than me, what I learned from, that I've learned from,
24:16is that when you face man, you know where you're going with the football.
24:20It doesn't mean it's always you make a good throw, but your feet are right
24:23because you know that's the matchup I like.
24:25That's where I'm going.
24:26That's where my feet will be right.
24:27When you face zone, what teams will do in the NFL in zone,
24:31at all levels of football, is they're going to play zone.
24:32They're going to take away what you do best.
24:34If you throw the curl, if you throw the dig.
24:36Like, for example, teams are going to take away the middle of the field
24:39from Shador Sanders.
24:40You're going to see a lot of robber coverage or lurk coverage
24:42where they're going to have a safety who plays between the hashes
24:44just to take away slants, digs, and curls.
24:47They're going to make him throw the outside because he does that very, very well.
24:50If I see it, these really smart defensive coordinators see it.
24:53So, for me, that's what zone does.
24:55Zone, as a defense, makes your eyes be right,
24:58but then you have to move your feet accordingly.
25:00Where in man, you know where you're going.
25:01So, the feet have to match the eyes.
25:04Yes, that's the next progression for him.
25:05Can he move his feet when they make him get to his second, third progression?
25:10That's the next step.
25:11Yeah, it's one of the criticisms of Mendoza coming out that,
25:14yeah, that back shoulder stuff.
25:16A lot of RPOs, a lot of one, read one guy.
25:18Absolutely.
25:18I thought that's what some of the best quarterbacks do
25:21is the back shoulder throw, but you can't live on just a diet of that.
25:26It's got to be obviously so much more.