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00:00All right, back at it on a gorgeous Thursday morning here, 96.5.
00:04The fan, it is Fesco and Dusty with you.
00:06Dusty off, Mac in.
00:08And so, last night, the Royals lose yet again.
00:11I don't think they're back, Mac.
00:12I really don't.
00:13I don't think the Royals are a team right now that is worthy of having the conversation of them being
00:19back.
00:19They're 4-5 since we asked that question on that poll Wednesday.
00:22Yeah.
00:23They're 4-5.
00:234-5 in the last night.
00:25We asked it twice in the last two weeks.
00:27Well, never should have been asked.
00:28They're not back.
00:29They're 4-5 since we asked.
00:30You're not back.
00:31You're a game under .500, which makes you a game even more under .500 as you're trying to chase to
00:35get back to .500.
00:36White Sox just got back to .500.
00:38Yeah, the White Sox now are a better team than the Kansas City Royals and a better organization at this
00:42point in time than the Kansas City Royals.
00:43They're 4-2.
00:44They're a better team.
00:44They're a better team.
00:45They're 4-2.
00:46They're a better baseball team.
00:46And they've got a ton of minor league prospects ready to come up to the system here in the next
00:50couple of weeks, I guarantee it.
00:51And they're only going to get better and better and better.
00:55It's your little brother, man.
00:56It is, but they're better than you right now.
00:58They're 4-2 against you this year.
01:00I mean, you made your living over the last two years of being above .500 in the playoffs, beating up
01:04on the Chicago White Sox, right?
01:05I think Carrington had that number and that stat about how the Royals were against the Chicago White Sox and
01:11then against the rest of baseball.
01:12I mean, they were a dominating team against the White Sox, and that's how they made their hay.
01:18And now over the last two years, 22 out of 25 times they had beaten the White Sox in 24
01:22and 25.
01:2322 out of 25 times in what years?
01:2624 and 25.
01:27They had beaten the White Sox last year, 11 wins against the White Sox.
01:30If you remember, they had 82 wins.
01:32That's over 10% of the Royals' wins came against the trash White Sox that they were last year.
01:38And they aren't this year.
01:38You're not getting those wins anymore.
01:39No, you're not.
01:40Their third baseman, Vargas, is a legitimate player.
01:42Murakami is a legitimate player.
01:44I mean, Chase Meidroth has been absolutely outstanding in these two games for the Chicago White Sox.
01:50They've got the pitching out there right now that's matching your pitching.
01:53And now we've got controversy surrounding the Royals.
01:56And Seth Lugo last night is not happy about the way that the organization is handling the ABS system.
02:03Here's Seth Lugo after the game.
02:04I'll let you guys listen.
02:05You guys can determine what you think Seth Lugo is saying.
02:08And then we'll have the conversation after we hear Seth Lugo.
02:11I think we need to, me personally, need to just be a little more conscious of, you know, if I
02:17execute a pitch, then be willing to waste a challenge, you know, instead of worrying about getting it wrong and
02:22losing one for the hitters.
02:23So I think that would be beneficial.
02:25Are you going to be more, do you want to challenge more yourself personally?
02:28I know you guys as pitchers have stayed away from that as the early part of the season.
02:32I mean, you know, the top part of the zone, it's pretty hard to tell.
02:36You know, I knew in the first thing I got at least a couple of them right in my mind.
02:40And then I went back and looked and they were all right.
02:41So after that, I was challenging when I knew they were there.
02:44I did one, but, you know, DS got credit for it.
02:47But I was ready to go after that.
02:49So I think just getting better about, you know, how we're playing the game, you know, the different rules and
02:53how much of a difference that makes.
02:55I mean, you know, for years you get one off the plate and you know it's not there.
03:01But, you know, batter can't do nothing.
03:02So, you know, if they're going to get us, then we've got to get them.
03:05So we've just got to really, you know, be more strategic with how we use it and, you know, make
03:09sure that we know what we're doing out there.
03:11Do you like that it's in the game?
03:13I do.
03:14Yeah, absolutely.
03:15I mean, you know, that's, I can think about just about every game I had, you know, good or bad.
03:21You know, I think the size of the strike zone was, you know, a contributing factor.
03:25So, you know, if we're going to be, you know, more fair and, you know, we're going to have the
03:29challenge system, then we've got to use it the right way.
03:32We've got to use it the right way if we're going to have a challenge system right there.
03:35Those are the key words, I think, by Seth Lugo.
03:37Now, a little bit does sound a little bit like baseball man whining about strike zone.
03:41I'm not going to lie.
03:42A lot of that is baseball man complaining.
03:45Seth Lugo's ERA has been great in his last two starts.
03:47Last four starts, he has a 7.59 ERA.
03:50He has not been good.
03:51Worse than I thought.
03:52Yeah.
03:52That is worse than I thought.
03:53He has not been good, Mac.
03:54And so that's, you can see he's kind of down bad.
03:57He can't seemingly figure things out.
04:00And so it becomes now let's blame the ABS, not the, I guess it is ABS and the way we're
04:05utilizing the ABS.
04:06Now, that is a conversation.
04:08Yeah, team strategy.
04:09Yeah.
04:09The way you execute.
04:10Yeah.
04:10What are we doing here?
04:11What is the team strategy?
04:12Because it doesn't sound like Seth Lugo is on board with whatever the team strategy is using this challenge system.
04:19And it sounds like he's very frustrated with the challenge system.
04:22He mentioned at one time, be willing to waste a challenge early.
04:25He said we did.
04:26And somebody named DS got credit for it or whatever.
04:28But he was the one that wanted the challenge.
04:30Who the hell cares who gets credit?
04:31I don't know why that matters at this point in time.
04:34But then he closes it out to say, we got to know what we're doing with this.
04:38And when he says something like that, it makes me immediately think, is there a plan?
04:42I'm sure there is a plan.
04:45But is it a plan?
04:46Maybe the catcher and the pitcher understand.
04:48Is it a plan that's been laid out clearly?
04:50Is it a plan that everybody agrees upon?
04:52It doesn't sound like Seth Lugo and the manager or management, I will say.
04:57Q's going to get a lot of blame for this.
04:58This is not a manager thing.
05:00I'll promise you that.
05:01It is a combined effort in all of this.
05:04No, the whole everything.
05:06Everything.
05:06Like, Q's going to get blamed for everything.
05:08It's a combined effort for everything.
05:10The lineup last night's a massive topic of conversation.
05:13A massive topic again against the lefty.
05:15Weird lineups.
05:16They stink against lefties, by the way.
05:18Cags comes into pinch hit.
05:19Pinch hit.
05:19And kind of, okay, why don't you just, we're all over the place with that.
05:23But again, that Q is the guy who's going to get the blame.
05:26They sit around and the computer makes the lineup.
05:29Okay.
05:29That's just the way it is.
05:30They all sit around in a meeting room.
05:31They talk about the night before what they're going to do with the lineup.
05:33This is not just Q penciling in names like it used to be back in the day.
05:37It's not.
05:38This is an organizational effort and an organizational fail.
05:42And really an organizational fail that the guy who's allegedly your leader in the rotation,
05:48your oldest guy got a thousand strikeouts last night.
05:51Hell of a career for Seth Lugo, who was picked, like, you know, pick number 1,000 in the draft
05:56in 20, whatever it was.
05:57And now here he is with a thousand strikeouts, had a hell of a career.
06:00And he's out there questioning what we're doing with the ABS challenges.
06:04And so here's the way that I'm looking at it.
06:07My grandmother died years and years ago, 20 years ago now, I think it was, right?
06:1220, 2006.
06:13Um, she passed away and she was in her nineties.
06:16And it was funny because she always had these clothes and I've shared the story before, but
06:21it makes a lot of sense.
06:22Now she always had these clothes in her, in her closet that she'd ever wore.
06:27And they still had the tags on them from Macy's or wherever the hell she bought all these
06:30clothes, Lord and Taylor, whatever the store was.
06:33And we always used to say to my grandmother, why aren't you wearing these clothes?
06:37You, you buy these clothes, you keep the tags on them.
06:39You leave them here.
06:40I'm saving them for good.
06:42You're 90.
06:43Like, what are we saving it for?
06:44I'm saving it for good.
06:46Grandma dies.
06:48Closet gets open.
06:49Same clothes, same tags, never worn.
06:51The good time, the saving it for good never arrived, right?
06:55Exactly.
06:55Never arrived.
06:56And so what I'm getting at is why are we saving challenges allegedly for later in the
07:01game?
07:01Because there are certain pitches that if they are reversed and called a strike, that could
07:07change the whole dynamic of the inning.
07:09And that's what Seth Lugo's talking about there.
07:12Now, you got to be mentally tougher and not let that get to you and battle and find ways
07:15to get through it.
07:16But if we have a situation where they're telling, like, the pitchers aren't doing the
07:21challenging, it's the catcher, the dugout, and the batter that are doing most of the
07:24challenges for everybody in baseball right now.
07:26But if we're sitting around and Lugo wants to challenge a pitch that he's convicted in,
07:30and then he said he went back and looked at him and they were all the right in his mind.
07:34If you're going out there and you're not allowing your guys to have those challenges early in
07:39the game, by the time you get to the end of the game, you may not need those challenges
07:42because you're getting your, you know what, kicked in because you're losing a game.
07:45An early challenge could have prevented Lugo from having a 27 pitch hitting to maybe a
07:5014 pitch hitting.
07:51I don't know what the difference could have been.
07:54But when I listen to him say that kind of stuff, I see him with the wheels spinning,
07:59like, if I just challenged that, I would have been out of that inning and maybe the
08:02damage isn't there.
08:03And so I think they need to do a better job of communicating.
08:06It doesn't sound like there's great communication going on between the coaching staff and that
08:10side and the pitchers because Seth Lugo, after last night's game, seems still very, very,
08:15very perplexed, Mac, about what he's supposed to do and how this challenge system is working
08:20via the team.
08:21It sounds like he's very frustrated with the way that the team is approaching this
08:25challenge system.
08:26No, 100%.
08:26There's got to be better communication there within the team on how this is going.
08:30And I mean, you mentioned all the different factors into what that could be.
08:34Does everyone agree?
08:35Does everyone, all of those sorts of things.
08:37First off, I don't really care to give a rip if anyone agrees.
08:39Like, managers and all the coaches are going to come together and decide the way that we're
08:43going to do this.
08:45We agree.
08:45I don't really care, Seth Lugo, if you're down bad about it, you're having a rough four starts,
08:49you're a little bit in your head because you're not hitting the strike zone.
08:52Fine.
08:52But yeah, it is frustrating if you're Seth Lugo to say, OK, but I had had double the amount
08:59of pitches in that inning, I think, because that this dramatically changed the way the
09:02rest of this inning was called.
09:03Right.
09:04The way the rest of the inning was was umped.
09:06So, no, I can see both sides here.
09:07But I think you look at Royals fans, man, you read last night, you read this morning what
09:12we're getting, Bob.
09:13And this is just another another run.
09:16And it's such a roller coaster.
09:17It's kind of crazy to see in real time how quick things change.
09:21Last week, we're getting texts about how we're back.
09:23I got Kathy in L.A.
09:25Yep.
09:25Hitting me up on the DMs.
09:26Mac, where are you?
09:28She's the best.
09:28I love her.
09:29She's such a sweet lady.
09:31Thank you so much for listening, Kathy.
09:32You're awesome.
09:33I don't hear you now, though, Kathy.
09:35I haven't seen your are you back questions yet.
09:38But we've got a lot of people.
09:39Q still gets the blame.
09:41He approves it.
09:41Lugo never should have gotten paid.
09:43We should have rebuilt.
09:44It's like I said before the season, Lugo and Cole should have been traded.
09:48No surprise.
09:48They're playing awful or hurt.
09:50I mean, I said trade Cameron in the offseason.
09:53That's where I stood on that.
09:54And I got laughed out of the building.
09:56You've got to trade guys in order to improve your organization.
09:59And now where the Royals are right now, Mac, I don't know what pieces they truly have
10:03in the minor leagues.
10:04I don't know where they are as an organization.
10:07They're an organization right now that I believe at this point in time is kind of stuck
10:12in purgatory.
10:13You're at the bottom of the American League Central.
10:15The Chicago White Sox have now passed you as a franchise.
10:18They are now a better franchise than you.
10:21Two years ago, the Chicago White Sox were a laughingstock.
10:26Two years ago, they were a laughingstock.
10:28They're now four and two against you this year.
10:30Yep, that's true.
10:32They're now four and two against you.
10:33I'd say they're a better team.
10:34Franchise is a bigger discussion that we would have to delve into.
10:37Look at the minor league comparisons.
10:38If you want a baseball America, the White Sox are a top six team.
10:42I think when it comes to the minor leaguers, maybe a little bit lower than that.
10:45The Royals are in the mid-20s.
10:46But as Dusty's laid out before, I mean, we've got our minor leaguers up at the top.
10:51At the big league level, right.
10:52And so do the White Sox for the most part.
10:53They've got a couple of more guys they're going to bring up.
10:55Teal would have been up here if he didn't get hurt in spring training.
10:57And there's a couple of more that are going to come up this year.
10:59And then they're going to have their arsenal of guys up here.
11:02And they're going to be ready to go.
11:03And their guys right now look better than the guys that the Royals are rolling out out there.
11:08Because I look at the Royals now, where are the reinforcements coming from?
11:11You know, this team is not hitting great against lefties at all.
11:14I mean, there's a huge disparity against hitting against lefties.
11:17You and I were talking about it in the break.
11:19It's nuts.
11:20And just the record-wise, like against lefties, the Royals, according to Gemini anyway,
11:25the Royals are 4-9 versus righties.
11:27They're 15-15.
11:28That's insane.
11:29You get more opportunities against righties, obviously.
11:31But to have a discrepancy like that is wild.
11:34They're hitting 2-21 against lefties, 2-54 against righties.
11:38Well, and the lineup's different.
11:40It's just, it's so crazy.
11:42You see, I mean, again, Salvador Perez 0-4 last night.
11:45I believe 5 left on base for Salvi.
11:47I think Carter Jensen comes in to pinch hit for Diaz, and 2-for-2, Carter Jensen was last night.
11:53Why don't you DH him instead of Perez, give Perez that off night?
11:57Like, I don't get the strategy here.
11:59I don't understand it, man.
12:01And I don't either.
12:02And that's why I've been saying this is not my style of baseball.
12:05I don't like this.
12:06He should be in.
12:06This is not my style of baseball.
12:08You play the best players.
12:09You play the hot hand.
12:10I mean, the analytics never take into account what's going on from a human side of things.
12:17They never take into account, hey, maybe this guy's hot right now.
12:21Let's just leave him in the lineup.
12:22There used to be an old adage in baseball that when a guy was hot, you left him alone, and
12:28you just let him do his thing.
12:29You never took him out of the lineup.
12:31You didn't take him out of that spot in the lineup.
12:33That dude's hot right now.
12:35That dude's hitting the snot out of the ball.
12:36That dude's finding ways to get on bases.
12:38We're going to leave that guy there at number five.
12:40We're not going to mess with this lineup.
12:41He's doing good things right now.
12:43If a guy is struggling, you take him out of the lineup.
12:45Analytics doesn't account for that.
12:46Doesn't know if a guy's been hot.
12:48Doesn't know if a guy's seen the ball well because there's not a number that you can put on that.
12:53Sometimes players just get into a zone.
12:55Sometimes players are just feeling it.
12:57Talk to them sometime about that.
12:59Like an athlete, when you're in that zone, you're like, oh, yeah, it's completely different.
13:03Everything is slowed down.
13:04The vision is bigger.
13:06You don't hear the crowd.
13:07You've slowed the game to a crawl.
13:10A hot shooter in basketball.
13:11Right.
13:12100%.
13:12Exactly.
13:13Yes.
13:14Or, you know, I don't know.
13:15I'm trying to think of an NFL kind of like, you know, harder.
13:18Yeah.
13:18Maybe running the ball versus, I don't know.
13:20It's very, but you're right.
13:21The three-point shooter in basketball.
13:23If a guy is on and for his last three games, he's just hitting shot after shot after shot.
13:27I don't care who the defense is.
13:29That guy's playing good right now.
13:31And the Royals don't understand that side of this.
13:34They really don't.
13:35It's all analytics.
13:36It's all numbers.
13:37It's all computers.
13:39And you get these lineups that nobody understands.
13:42And you get these lineups that confuse the fans.
13:44I mean, and we had fans calling into Vern show last night upset, upset now that they're paying to watch
13:50the game is getting people ticked off about that too.
13:53And that's the other thing that you have to factor in now.
13:56People have shelled out money to watch this product, and it hasn't been a good product all year long.
14:03How much was the Royals TV?
14:04A hundred bucks?
14:04Yeah.
14:07Yeah.
14:07It's a hundred bucks.
14:08I'm not going to say I'm not going to fall back on.
14:10It's a hundred dollars.
14:11Absolutely.
14:12I'm not going to, like, your boy's broke right now.
14:15So I'm not trying to say, like, I wish I had a hundred bucks.
14:17Trust me.
14:17I wish I wouldn't spend it.
14:18Like, I'm not saying I wish I wouldn't.
14:19Of course, I always am going to spend it on Royals TV.
14:21But it's a hundred bucks.
14:22Like, it's still a good price.
14:24Like, I understand.
14:25But it's different than what people are used to, right?
14:27A hundred percent.
14:28I understand the frustration.
14:29And it is warranted.
14:31This team had better expectations.
14:33You've got maybe the best player in the AL right now.
14:36Like, currently playing baseball.
14:39Yeah.
14:39And you are under 500 in the season, under 500 in the last week.
14:42You're probably 500 in the last two weeks.
14:45You're an average at best baseball team.
14:48Imagine consistently being average with Patrick Mahomes.
14:51It'd be unacceptable.
14:52It would be.
14:53And I know it's a different sport.
14:54And the position is more impactful in football.
14:57But that comparison is still there.
14:59I mean, he plays every day.
15:00He's one of the most important positions, if not the most important position, on defense at the shortstop.
15:04He's the best 5-2 player in baseball.
15:06He's hitting the ball well.
15:08Last night wasn't his best night.
15:09But still, it is not coming to fruition.
15:11He's not going to be a superstar every night.
15:13And it's just, it's impossible to do.
15:15Impossible to do.
15:16I mean, oh my God.
15:16And it'd be nice, we talk about this with Mahomes as well, and the Chiefs, if someone else could say,
15:20hey, don't worry, you don't got to throw for 300 today.
15:23Don't worry, you don't got to go four for four from the plate today.
15:25Right.
15:25I got you.
15:26I got you.
15:27I got you.
15:27Take a breath.
15:28Do your diving catch.
15:29Play your defense.
15:30Don't worry at the plate tonight.
15:31We're going to get our offense going.
15:32And that seemingly, they've come up short.
15:34And it's so annoying now, because it feels like from a month ago, this team has improved.
15:38But not enough for it to really mean anything.
15:40Right.
15:40You're losing 6-5.
15:41You're losing 5-4.
15:42The bats are starting to heat up, and the pitching's gone down.
15:45The pitching's gone down.
15:45And this is the way it works, right?
15:46Yep.
15:47Yep.
15:47This is why you have to start out better and not dig yourself this hole, because now what
15:50are they?
15:51Five, six games under 500.
15:53I think I was doing the math.
15:54I think by Tuesday is the next time that we can talk about the Royals being back to 500.
15:58They're 19 and 24.
15:58Yep.
15:58So if that's five games under 500.
16:00And you're going to take on the Cardinals this weekend, who are a good baseball team.
16:04And they're playing great ball right now.
16:05And they're buying into what they're doing.
16:08Way to go, Kramer.
16:08And so I think right now, with the Cardinals series coming up, man, they've got to find
16:13a way to get this win tonight against the White Sox and turn this thing around a little bit
16:17before they head to St. Louis.
16:18Because right now, it's just not working.
16:20And it sure sounds like Seth Lugo's not on the same page as the rest of the organization.
16:24And that's not good.
16:25And not only, Mac, are you playing bad baseball right now, you have been usurped by the Chicago
16:30White Sox.
16:31Yeah.
16:31You have been usurped by the Chicago White Sox.
16:34They are now four and two against you this year.
16:36And maybe you were counting on one more year of being able to take care of the Chicago White
16:39Sox from a major league club at this point in time.
16:42They are better than you.
16:43They have passed you in the standings.
16:45They have passed you on the field.
16:47And who are you going to beat up on to stockpile wins?
16:50Is it going to be the Minnesota Twins?
16:51I don't know.
16:52They've already played the Twins a couple of times this year.
16:54So, you know, you take away those series.
16:56It's just really a frustrating time right now for, I think, everybody.
17:00I think everybody in the organization is probably frustrated right now.
17:03Listening to Vern's postgame callers last night, they're frustrated right now.
17:06Looking at the text line from Vern's show, they're frustrated right now.
17:09I'm sure you have it up this morning.
17:11I'm sure fans are frustrated right now because it feels like, man.
17:15Rightfully so.
17:15And rightfully so.
17:16It's the same stuff.
17:17It's the same song and dance every year.
17:19We're talking about the same thing in these last two months.
17:21I mean, again, like lefties, righties, lineup inconsistency.
17:25Why isn't Cags and Jensen playing?
17:27Salvador Perez, he's in the four hole.
17:28Like all of these things we talked about six weeks ago.
17:32Yeah.
17:32Eight weeks ago.
17:33Last year.
17:33Last year.
17:34I mean, we've discussed this now at Nauseam.
17:37And at some point, something's got to change.
17:38You mentioned the records against lefties and righties.
17:40I don't know what sample size you need to see.
17:43But my God, you're four and nine.
17:45And then you're 500, which, again, isn't anything to brag about.
17:48But four and nine to 500 is a massive discrepancy in difference.
17:52What's changing?
17:53Analytically, I think you've got to find a happy medium here because I'm not saying analytics
17:57are stupid completely.
17:58But there is, to your point, there is human.
18:01They are when you don't factor in the other side.
18:03And the other side is stupid when you don't factor in the numbers.
18:06And if there's something there that can push you in the right direction.
18:09I'm not a black or white guy.
18:11I'm a gray area guy.
18:12I get both sides, but you can't be so wedded to one side that you don't consider the other
18:18side.
18:19And the human being is so vital.
18:22And the human brain is so vital in sports to determine whether or not somebody is going
18:27to have success.
18:28Are they in the right mindset?
18:30Analytics doesn't know any of that.
18:32They don't know if somebody's having a bad day.
18:34And they don't know if somebody's been red hot over the last three or four games.
18:37And you want to leave them in the lineup.
18:39Those are the things that are missing.
18:41Feel is missing from this organization right now.
18:44They've got the numbers.
18:45They don't have the feel.
18:47And you have to have the feel and a combination of both.
18:51It's what makes this so much more difficult.
18:53Bob, you and I could do this if it was numbers.
18:56Exactly.
18:56We could figure out the algorithm.
18:58We could figure out the Microsoft Excel, whatever the hell, right?
19:00Like, I've got brothers in data analytics.
19:02I could get them on this.
19:03We could figure out the numbers, okay?
19:04Then I'd be making millions.
19:05I'd say, talk to you later.
19:06That's not how this works.
19:08You've got to have the feeling, the knowledge.
19:09And I know, Q, all those guys in that building have forgotten more about baseball than I and you will
19:15know combined.
19:16But at some point, it doesn't matter.
19:18We've got to talk to the players.
19:20I don't know.
19:21You've got to talk to George Brett.
19:22Call somebody.
19:23Hey, what's going on?
19:24I talked to George Brett the other day.
19:24Had that conversation with him.
19:26Kind of turned him around.
19:27Unlocked him a little bit.
19:28Those are the things that analytics can't figure out.
19:30I feel like that's so desperate for me even saying that.
19:33But it's desperate times call for desperate measures.
19:36I mean, at this point, I think the 6-2-0 actually figured it out.
19:39So maybe I'll just take a breath here.
19:40The 6-2-0 says, everything changed once the Hawaiian bros changed their deal.
19:47I think that's funny.
19:49We've got to laugh.
19:50Yeah.
19:50No, you have to laugh.
19:51Do you have a caller to make us laugh?
19:52No, you have to laugh.
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