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00:00James Palmer, NFL Insider, Bleach Report, and The Athletic.
00:03And right now, he is on the Make It Right, Call Kyle Wright hotline.
00:07Hey, James, how are you?
00:09I'm good. I'm good, gentlemen. How we doing?
00:11Hi, James.
00:12Is it true you're the only Buckeye that didn't get drafted in the first round?
00:15I just want to make sure.
00:17Did this make anybody else?
00:18As I'm watching it go through, I'm like,
00:21how did we not win the national championship?
00:24Ask Jeff. I said it ten times the next day.
00:30Oh, my gosh. We were so good. What's going on here?
00:33That's one of the things I do with people at the Combine.
00:36For my own selfish reasons, I'm asking guys that have Buckeye ties that are coaches,
00:40like, hey, what was our problem? What do you think?
00:42A couple guys did say to me, like, we didn't have a back that we usually have,
00:46which I think was part of it in terms of running the football.
00:48And I think in the trenches a little bit, we're a little softer than we are usually.
00:53But, yeah, I'm still looking at this defense going, like,
00:56how did anybody score, like, at all?
00:59I'm trying to figure out, James, how we didn't get you to work at Channel 10
01:02when I was down there while you were still in school.
01:04That would have been nice.
01:05I interned with the Blue Jackets, actually.
01:07That was my work while I was in Columbus when the Blue Jackets had just gotten started.
01:12So I was writing for those guys and interviewing NHL players when things go great.
01:16Their English is amazing.
01:17And when things go terrible, they don't understand your question at all.
01:21It's a trick I learned from guys like Sergei Fedorov.
01:24Sounds like baseball players.
01:27Yeah, 100%.
01:28That's kind of funny.
01:29Four Buckeyes in the top 11.
01:31Before we get to Brown stuff, were you surprised Cardinal Tate was the first Buckeye to be drafted?
01:37I was.
01:38And you know what?
01:39Tate was, too, from my understanding.
01:40Like, I don't think he talked to any of those other guys that he was teammates with
01:44and was saying, I'm going to Nashville.
01:46I don't think that really got around.
01:48It was surprising to him a little bit.
01:50Like, I thought he was the best receiver in the draft.
01:52I thought he was going to be the first receiver off the board.
01:55But more and more people I talked to around the league were, I don't know if any of these
01:59guys are a true number one.
02:00Now, I think there's a little bit of an unknown, obviously, because of who Tate's playing
02:03opposite of.
02:04You can tell Malik Nabors that, by the way, who had some choice thoughts for Tate going
02:08that high.
02:09Everybody would be a two to Jeremiah Smith.
02:11And so, I mean, I was a little surprised at that.
02:14But when I talked to people in Nashville, there was no getting out of number four.
02:18There was no Arizona getting out of number three.
02:21They both knew pretty easily that they had to stay and pick.
02:24And they really, really want to help Cam Ward.
02:27And they want a guy who comes in and is a professional receiver from the jump.
02:30And I don't think there's a box that Cardinal Tate doesn't check in terms of helping a young
02:34quarterback and just knowing how to come out.
02:36I mean, that's what Brian Hartline has done time and time again that these guys are
02:39just ready to roll.
02:40So, when I started thinking about that, it made sense.
02:43But at the same time, the talent level of Arvell and Sonny Stiles and Downs, we just knew
02:47positional value would change some of that.
02:49But I'll tell you right now, I don't know if there's a happier group in the NFL right
02:55now than those guys down in Dallas.
02:56They never thought Caleb was going to get to them.
02:59And they are ecstatic that they have him running their defense.
03:02I got to think the Browns are feeling pretty good right now, too.
03:05And I was reading your stuff as I was watching the draft, too.
03:08And just talking about how Spencer Fano, just how the Browns played that perfect.
03:15They really did.
03:16They really did.
03:16And, you know, there was just a couple of guys at the top of this draft tackle-wise.
03:20We knew there was going to be a run later.
03:21The run happened a little earlier than some people thought.
03:24But it's similar to a year ago where it's like, do you have a specific plan heading into
03:28the draft?
03:29I think they did.
03:30And I think they figured that out when I, you know, saw Andrew Barry and company out
03:34there at the CU Pro Day or, sorry, showcase that Deion was putting on for Travis Hunter
03:38and everybody.
03:39And they kind of just realized, like, this isn't part of what we want to build.
03:42And I think right now it's early.
03:44It seems trading back a year ago worked.
03:46And obviously in this one, I don't know anybody I've talked to in the league that disagreed
03:50with them moving back.
03:51There was a distinct plan for Kansas City and what they wanted to do.
03:55Very limited resource there at corner.
03:57And they slide back and still get the player that they actually wanted.
04:00Like, to move back in the top 10 and still get the best tackle that's on your board that
04:05has versatility and can do a lot of things for you.
04:07And it's also a position of need.
04:09Like, you handle the top of the draft really, really well in a draft where, like I mentioned,
04:15with Arizona and with Nashville, like, nobody was really making big jumps.
04:19There weren't players that teams were looking to move for.
04:21And you found a way to move back and get your guy.
04:24Played really, really well by the Browns, for sure, at the top.
04:27James Palmer joining us, NFL Insider with the Bleacher Report and The Athletic.
04:31He has the 89 show with Steve Smith that you can see as well.
04:36The one thing I thought going into the draft, James, I mentioned on our show, I'd love to
04:41see two receivers in the first three picks.
04:43I was hoping, though, that one of them would be Carnell Tate or Jordan Tyson.
04:49Or Makai Lemon.
04:50Did the Browns do okay with Concepcion in Boston?
04:54Or would they, you know, because they did have the opportunity, if they hadn't traded
04:57out, you know, to draft Tyson, and they could have traded up to get Lemon?
05:02Yeah.
05:03Certainly, certainly options.
05:04I would say ones that they probably looked at.
05:06But when I look at, you know, I think the Jets and the Browns did outstanding as they both
05:11are still trying to figure out.
05:12Obviously, it's a big step on who's going to be your franchise quarterback moving forward.
05:16But what you do for those quarterbacks is you give them a play caller, you give them
05:19protection, and you give them playmakers.
05:21And I understand the protection aspect.
05:23They got that at the top as they're trying to rebuild this offensive line.
05:26At the same time, you need playmakers.
05:28You know, Steve and I broke down all of these guys.
05:30And you can go to our channel and look at it.
05:33It's almost like 20 to 30 minutes on every one of these top receivers, whether it's Casey
05:36Concepcion or Lemon or Tyson.
05:40But, I mean, Tyson's injury stuff was real.
05:42I mean, the concern of staying on the field was certainly there.
05:46I think to be able to get both of these guys, and I'll break them down individually, I think
05:51was maybe the smarter play.
05:53There's some stuff with Lemon where it's a little bit specific in how he plays.
05:56There's a lot of comps between Lemon and Casey Concepcion, I would say, from a lot of evaluators
06:02I talk to.
06:02So if you're putting them in a similar boat and you didn't trade up for one and you let
06:05one fall to you, I think is a pretty good play.
06:07Now, Casey's like juice is legitimately real.
06:10I think the drops are obviously a concern, a bit of a body catcher when Steve and I broke
06:14it down.
06:14And that can be a little bit of something you work on.
06:17But, man, the ball in his hands and the ability to go make plays, the enough evaluators I talked
06:21to were just like, this is one of my favorite guys in the draft.
06:24And then I'll steal Steve's, okay, guys, I'll steal Steve Smith's phrase on Denzel Boston.
06:31He was like, he is a PB&J.
06:33Not a strawberry, but a great PB&J.
06:36You only know how good it is once you have it.
06:39And it's just good every time.
06:41And that's kind of what Denzel Boston is.
06:43He's steady.
06:44You know what you're going to get from him.
06:46Is he going to blow you away with a whole lot?
06:49Maybe not.
06:50But he runs some routes that bigger guys usually don't run.
06:53I give him a lot of credit for running the three cone.
06:55A lot of these bigger receivers just hate to do it.
06:57He showed that he can have the ability to do some more things as a receiver on the bigger
07:01side than some people imagine.
07:04I talked to one assistant GM who said, I mean, this is just one man's opinion, but he
07:08said, I'd put him in the top three group.
07:10I'd put Denzel Boston right up there with Carnell Tate and B'Kai Lemon and Jordan Tyson.
07:15Like, that's how highly I think of him.
07:17So I think they played it right for sure as they're rebuilding that receiver room.
07:21James Balmer, NFL Insider, Bleach Report, and The Athletic joining us right here on Baskin
07:25and Phelps.
07:26Give me the street cred on Andrew Barry, especially after his draft last year and where he's at now.
07:34I know Browns fans get frustrated and will say, well, his drafts weren't very good, but
07:38there's a point there where you have to look at the fact that he didn't have three first
07:43round picks prior to last year and he was missing second round picks there as well.
07:47Give me his street cred and what you think of him after this draft.
07:51Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, we're early in the process, right?
07:54And I always try to, you know, make myself a little bit suspect of going like, this draft
07:59was terrible.
08:00Like, everybody's destroying James Gladstone down there in Jacksonville for drafting guys
08:05completely different than the rest of the boards.
08:07What if they all hit?
08:07I mean, we're destroying them now, but maybe they do have a vision.
08:10So I know none of these guys have played a game.
08:12But I would say this.
08:13The draft last year was so good, it spun at kind of 180 going, okay, let's see if you
08:18can do it again.
08:19That was kind of the perception around the NFL.
08:21Like, okay, like that's a really good draft.
08:23I know you were shorthanded with some of the Deshaun Watson stuff in terms of the picks,
08:27in terms of the salary.
08:28Like, again, you weren't the only team that was going after Deshaun, but this has gone
08:30just terribly sideways.
08:32And now you look at it and it has the appearance of back-to-back drafts now and redeveloping
08:38the core and getting a young core and changing your franchise in that sense.
08:43I think really the full length of the perception will change, and probably Darren Mugee's going
08:47through this a little bit earlier in his tenure as a general manager there with the Jets is,
08:52all right, your next move is you've laid the foundation around a quarterback.
08:57Are you going to pick the right one?
08:59And that's going to be really where all of this comes from.
09:03I know he took two last year, but we know about the 27 class.
09:06It really impacted the way a lot of these trades were actually discussed between teams,
09:10to my understanding of how good that draft is.
09:13Do you pick the right one and get the right one in 27?
09:15That's what everybody's waiting for, but it certainly is like the appearance right now.
09:19You've done this back-to-back drafts and you've played them very, very well.
09:23And it does give you nothing but the feeling that they're looking ahead to 2027,
09:27that their quarterback long-term is not sitting on this roster right now.
09:31It really has that appearance right now.
09:32I didn't hear anything at all of them taking a quarterback at 24.
09:36I mean, obviously some people knew that Ty Simpson would possibly go in the first rounds.
09:41I kind of knew some hints about the Rams, but I just didn't think they'd pull the trigger at 13.
09:45I thought, you know, those rumors I heard was when the Rams had two picks,
09:48and okay, 29 makes sense.
09:50I never heard that the Browns were interested in a quarterback at 24.
09:55I do believe you're going to have about 10 options possibly that you can really evaluate
10:00as the course of the season goes on that you can take in that first round,
10:03that I would put the Browns clearly in that group of teams with Arizona still,
10:08with the Jets as well, and maybe even Miami,
10:12as they're clearly focused on getting that quarterback in 27.
10:17What do you think of the Browns' situation then at quarterback this year?
10:20And then, you know, you talked about next year, I know we're all kind of looking there,
10:23but give me your perspective on Deshaun Watson, Shador Sanders.
10:29I think there's a chance Deshaun plays, guys.
10:31I'm just thinking there's a chance Deshaun wins it.
10:33Like, if I look at anything that Todd Munkin has done in his past
10:39and the ability to accentuate the ability of a quarterback that can really move
10:44and can really run and really can play on the move
10:47and add things to the playbook when that's a strength,
10:52like, Todd has a lot of success with that.
10:53So, I mean, is there a legitimate chance that that fits Deshaun if he's healthy
10:58and if he's ready to go?
10:59Obviously, injuries have been another part of his time in Cleveland,
11:02and we all know that.
11:04I think you could go out and see him win this job.
11:06Now, like, if Shador wins it, great.
11:09If Shador plays great, outstanding.
11:12You know, it's a really, I think, decent spot you're in.
11:16And I think, yeah, Deshaun has a legitimate chance of winning this job.
11:21You figure out, you know, moving forward when you get there.
11:24But I think the eyes of the drafting side of that building right now
11:27are probably already working like a lot of others in this league on that 27 group.
11:35It was a fun draft to watch.
11:37There's no question.
11:38And Andrew Berry did some wheeling and dealing.
11:39They would appear to have a much better offensive line situation.
11:43And now can Todd Munkin put it together?
11:46James, did you get a good buzz about Todd around the NFL through the folks you talk with?
11:51Yeah, I mean, I'll be honest.
11:52Like, the hiring was a bit of a head-scratcher to some people.
11:55I think there was a couple people in the building,
11:57if they were giving truth to him, would be like,
11:59oh, this is interesting, you know what I mean, with the way that this cycle went.
12:03And you know what?
12:03That's happened a lot of places.
12:05I mean, I remember being on the radio in Philly, and I'm from there,
12:08where, you know, guys on the radio said,
12:09James, he's playing rock, paper, scissors, Nick Sirianni, with these guys.
12:12I mean, like, get this guy out of here.
12:14He's got one of the greatest winning percentages to start a career in the history of the NFL.
12:17Like, that was a hire that everybody thought was absolutely awful by Philly,
12:22and nobody understood why they went with Nick Sirianni.
12:24I think there's a respect that Todd has, certainly, around the league for what he can do.
12:30And I think there's definitely a percentage of people around the league also that go,
12:34he deserved a crack, like, for sure, and I hope he gets it.
12:38And so that sentiment is around the NFL for sure.
12:42And so I just think, you know, we're in such a, what's the best way to put this,
12:47like, such a copycat league in terms of the next just young, up-and-coming,
12:52Mike LaFleur type of hire, where I think we get just too stuck on that.
12:56And there's plenty of good coaches out there,
13:00and I do like that the Browns went about it in their own way.
13:03And I think oftentimes when teams go outside the box,
13:07it's overly criticized because the league is built off of comps.
13:10I mean, go talk to a general manager about a player that doesn't have a comp
13:13and they freak out.
13:15What do you mean to have a comp?
13:16Like, everybody needs to have a comp to it.
13:18When the Browns went out and went about their search in a very specific way
13:21and did it their way, obviously other teams are going to question it.
13:25But if it ends up working, I mean, you look like a genius.
13:28So that's why, you know, some guys like Mike McDaniels have their time in the shine
13:32where he looks like the smartest guy in football,
13:34and then Rex Ryan's destroying him, calling him McGenius when things don't go well.
13:38So when you don't do it to the norm, everybody's got an opinion.
13:41But I do think, you know, Todd was an interesting hire for sure in a lot of people's minds,
13:45but he's definitely got a lot of support from some people around the league.
13:48James, last question.
13:48I got about 10 seconds or 15.
13:50Are the Browns a better team today than they were before the draft?
13:54100% agree.
13:55And we didn't even talk about the safety they picked up,
13:57who I think is outstanding in the second round.
13:59And I'm excited to see him play in the box.
14:01Outstanding.
14:02James, thank you so much.
14:03We'll make sure we read all your stuff.
14:04And we do appreciate your time.
14:06Make sure you're reading Bleach Report and The Athletic.
14:09And I'd love to have you back on sometime soon.
14:11Thanks, James.
14:11James, thank you.
14:12Anytime, guys.
14:12Take care.
14:13Yep.
14:13Talk to you soon.
14:14Go Bucs.
14:15James Palmer on the Make It Right.
14:17Call Kyle Wright.
14:19Hotline.
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