- 7 weeks ago
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00:00I don't know that we're all excited about Deshaun.
00:05But are they? Are they all excited?
00:08Might have to push back on that just a smidge there, Jimmy.
00:12That was Jimmy Haslam at the owners' meetings this week.
00:15And a comment was attributed to him that, I guess, never was said.
00:27Spencer German was in with Earl DePearl yesterday, and they talked about this.
00:32And Spencer was in the room, and he had said, yeah, those words never came out of Jimmy Haslam's mouth.
00:40They're actually taking a pretty measured approach to the whole Deshaun situation.
00:44It is kind of like a wait and see.
00:47They're not counting on him, but also he's going to be given the opportunity,
00:52considering what they're paying him and where they are in their quarterback room.
00:58Why not at this point?
01:01And basically what happened is a headline got aggregated and twisted around.
01:08And this is kind of what happens sometimes in our modern media landscape where your fans rely on social media.
01:22And unfortunately today, in these days, social media is not very social, number one.
01:28Number two, it's also not very factual.
01:31Number three, it's also no longer a great source of information.
01:36Just, you know, myself from like a personal standpoint, if I want to find out something that's going on or
01:43whatever,
01:43I used to go to social media and look and see what's trending and what folks are talking about
01:48and what's the latest news regarding something.
01:52And now there's just so much disinformation.
01:55There's so many wannabe comedians out there.
01:59There's a lot of aggregators out there.
02:02And so you get comments, whether it's from Jimmy Haslam or anyone else really,
02:09it becomes like the game of telephone you used to play growing up, right?
02:14You'd start at one end of the room with the sentence.
02:18And by the time you got through the whole room, the sentence is completely different.
02:24And that kind of seems to be what, you know, what happens.
02:27And so, and, you know, Jimmy ended up getting killed all week, everywhere.
02:34For something that he technically did not say.
02:37Right.
02:37For saying something he never said.
02:40But you heard the comments there.
02:42And honestly, look, I think that that's a pretty reasonable approach by Jimmy there.
02:52Non-committal committal, if you will.
02:54The old non-denial denial.
02:56Where it's like, yeah, I mean, he's coming off all these injuries.
03:00He hasn't played a lot of football.
03:01We know this.
03:03But he looks good right now.
03:05He's in pretty good shape.
03:06He's taking care of his body.
03:08He's doing all the things that he needs to do to prepare himself for the offseason program.
03:13And he's going to be there at the start of the offseason program, which is tomorrow.
03:18They'll have some availability this week.
03:21We'll hear from head coach Todd Munkin again here.
03:26But, like, yeah, you know, for me, I think that's a pretty reasonable way to look at it.
03:33Now, do I really have any interest in watching Deshaun Watson play football for the Cleveland Browns this year?
03:37No, not really.
03:39Do I think that there's a lot to gain from it?
03:41No, not really.
03:43But this is where they're at.
03:44There were not a lot of options available to them in free agency to upgrade that room.
03:50And the key word there is upgrade.
03:52Yes, there were options to add to the room.
03:55But just because you add to the room doesn't mean you upgrade the room.
04:01And so we'll find out in a couple weeks if Ty Simpson is someone that they're going to give up
04:06the 2027 draft class for.
04:09I just think that's absolutely bananas.
04:11I think that that is being planted for a deliberate reason to throw some teams off.
04:19Clearly, there's a for sale sign on the number six overall pick.
04:23No, they haven't shied away from that once.
04:26Like, not at the combine.
04:27Barry pretty much said it was for sale.
04:29At the owner meeting, Barry said it was for sale.
04:32Like, that number six pick.
04:34I, you know, it's fun to do the mock drafts.
04:36That's what we do this time of year.
04:38That's our thing right in Cleveland.
04:42It stinks, though, because you spend so much time reading these mock drafts and the fans doing their own mock
04:47drafts with the simulators and stuff, which is good.
04:50And it's good fun.
04:50Like, my dad's found the simulators, and he loves them.
04:53He sends me so many screenshots of the simulators, which is good.
04:57Fans are having fun.
04:58There's nothing wrong with that.
04:59The afternoon show has found the simulators, too.
05:01But, like, there's a world where you spend so much time on the simulator is what I was trying to
05:06tell my dad.
05:06Dad, your screen time, because of the simulator, is astronomical.
05:09Like, pay my mom a little bit of attention.
05:11And they're not even going to draft six.
05:14Like, they probably will draft eight or 12 or somewhere when they trade.
05:18Well, depending how long your parents have been married, maybe your mom's not all that mad that your dad's spending
05:22time on the simulator and leaving her alone.
05:25It's possible.
05:26That is possible.
05:27But, yeah, so, I mean, and that's just kind of what happened with, you know, this week, where it ended
05:32up being a game of telephone.
05:34And could I say, though, D, like, I feel bad on one hand that they misconstrued what Jimmy Haslam said
05:43and they took his words out of context.
05:45But at the same time, I don't feel that bad because Deshaun Watson's a hot-buttony topic.
05:52Deshaun Watson's a topic that gets people going.
05:55Yeah, but accuracy matters.
05:57But here's the thing.
05:58That's why I feel bad, because accuracy matters.
06:00The fact that the Miami Dolphins incurred a record-setting $99 million dead cap hit to get rid of Tua.
06:07The fact that the Denver Broncos had a massive $85 million dead cap hit to get rid of Russell Wilson.
06:13These teams have showed you it's possible.
06:16You can wipe your hands of a mistake like this.
06:19And at the end of the day, football's an entertainment business.
06:22Football, at least the National Football League, should be about entertaining your fans.
06:27The fans have spoken, and this week rang true of that.
06:32Fans don't want to see Deshaun Watson on the field, for the most part.
06:35I'd say if you went Family Feud style and you pulled 100 people on the streets of Cleveland,
06:41survey says Deshaun Watson shouldn't be on the field would be the resounding answer from Browns fans.
06:47So why are we doing this?
06:49Of course, whenever the owner discusses Deshaun Watson, something's going to be taken out of context.
06:55Something's going to be misconstrued.
06:56And when it happens, when it's the local media that's doing it, of course that's disappointing.
07:00And accuracy does matter.
07:02And for that, I feel bad for him.
07:03Because he never said, turn from a swing and a miss to a home run.
07:06And the fact that that was the quote that really got picked up and ran with, it is disappointing.
07:11And I'm sure Jimmy probably looked at that and was like, I didn't even say that.
07:14I'm sure that's upsetting to him, but dude, you put yourself into this situation in a lot of ways
07:20because you have a massively unlikable figure who you're trying to sell to fans
07:26as a solution to this problem that's existed since 1999 at your quarterback position.
07:33This is all avoidable, but they refuse to just wipe their hands of this mistake.
07:38Well, and the contract that they, and how they've managed the contract makes that a little more difficult.
07:48And that's on them.
07:49Suck cost fallacy.
07:50Pick up a business book and give it a read.
07:53You don't let past mistakes influence future decision making.
07:57And they do.
07:58The Cleveland Browns are one business on planet Earth that does let past mistakes influence future decision making.
08:05Well, what I mean by cost management, it's with the salary cap.
08:11Yeah, the restructure.
08:12And Andrew has tried.
08:13The void years.
08:14Yeah, and Andrew has tried to minimize the pain of getting out from underneath that contract.
08:19How about this?
08:20So they don't have to take enough.
08:21How about this?
08:22Get rid of the guy.
08:23Nobody wants him around.
08:24They're going to do that next year.
08:26That's why they put the dummy year for the league minimum on that contract
08:30so that they can cut him post-designate June 1.
08:32And they can minimize the cap.
08:35And Barry has been right.
08:36Yeah, because the cap, it hurt the Broncos.
08:39You know, the cap and the dead cap that the Broncos had to deal with from that big Russell Wilson
08:43dead cap.
08:44It hurt them.
08:45They were a snap away from the AFC champion.
08:47Oh, bummer.
08:48Had they not been dealing with that dead cap, who knows?
08:50Maybe the Broncos would have been in the Super Bowl.
08:52You know, like, I hate the excuses.
08:55That's all they do.
08:55They're an excuse factory.
08:58They print excuses.
08:59Well, it also comes down to the fact that they didn't have a lot of draft picks as a result
09:06of that trade.
09:07A lot of high-end draft picks.
09:09And the draft picks that they did have, they really didn't get a whole lot out of them.
09:14Okay?
09:15And it's part of the reason why they proposed that five-year rule for using draft picks.
09:24Everyone, you know, jumped on the first round.
09:26The rule that got laughed off the stage?
09:27Well, yeah, I mean, they withdrew it because they read the room, I think, for the first time in their
09:32history and realized that it had no chance of passing.
09:35And then they made sure everyone knew.
09:37Well, the only reason why we did this was just, you know, we just wanted some discussion about it.
09:41It was so funny.
09:42It forced other teams to have a conversation about it.
09:45No, it didn't.
09:46The only team that was forced to have a conversation about it was you guys, who were, again, distracted from
09:53the main initiative, which should be trying to figure out how to win games.
09:57Instead of trying to outsmart everyone with rule-change proposals for five years' worth of draft picks.
10:03Oh, we forced the conversation.
10:05No, you didn't.
10:06No other organization was forced to talk about it, think about it.
10:09You guys are the only ones wasting your time with it.
10:12I'm going to defend the Browns on this one, and you know me.
10:16That's really hard for me to do, but I'm going to defend the Browns here.
10:20I actually think it was a pretty interesting proposal, because if that was available to them, they would not have
10:32had to go three years without first and second round draft picks.
10:35Okay?
10:36They could have stretched it out.
10:38Everyone assumed it was about trading five straight years of first round draft picks.
10:44No, that's not what it was about.
10:45Yeah, it was like not just about first round picks, but all the rounds where you can get creative with
10:52your trade like they do in the NBA.
10:54I've lost track of what picks the Cavaliers have going forward.
10:59Yeah, you could trade them ten years into the future.
11:01They're trading picks for guys that are in seventh grade.
11:04Yeah, I've completely lost track of what they have left because of the way that is set up and how
11:11they can trade so many picks into the future.
11:15Okay?
11:17And that's what Barry was trying to do was like, hey, you know, you can still get three first round
11:22picks, but maybe not in three years in a row.
11:26So, I looked at that as Barry learning from the Deshaun trade, the damage the Deshaun trade did to his
11:35team building processes, okay, especially because it didn't work out.
11:39Even if it did work out, okay?
11:42Even if it did work out, there's still challenges that come with that.
11:46Yeah, you would still avoid a receiver, some offensive lineman, because you wouldn't have had those first round picks, even
11:51if it would have worked out.
11:52So, I get where Barry was coming from, and the more I thought about it and the more I looked
11:59at it, I was like, you know what?
12:00On the surface, yeah, at first blush, yeah, this is crazy, this is stupid, this is irresponsible, some dumb GM's
12:07going to try and save his job and his backside by mortgaging the future.
12:11And look, major trades do not get made in pro sports without ownership sign-off.
12:17Major moves like that don't get done in a vacuum.
12:22And there are checks and balances with these franchises.
12:26There are checks and balances with the Cleveland Browns, which I often lament.
12:30I think there's too much involvement at times.
12:33I think there's too much collaboration at times on some things.
12:38But yeah, I mean, this is kind of what happens now, these days, is that, you know, these behind-closed
12:47doors, media availabilities, and informal things, it turns into a game of telephone where one thing's said, and by the
12:54time it gets to the aggregators, it's just a completely different story.
12:58Browns off-season program starts tomorrow, that means the Deshaun Watson questions will continue about where he fits into things,
13:05talking a little bit this morning about the Jimmy Haslam firestorm that popped up this week, the game of telephone,
13:11from what was actually said at the owners' meetings in Phoenix in the room, with Jimmy and a small group
13:18of Cleveland reporters.
13:19So then it got to the aggregators, to then it got to the aggregators, to then it got to the
13:23social media channels, and it got all blown out of proportion.
13:28Then Jimmy basically started getting killed on the airwaves there for saying that.
13:39But look, they made their bed, and now they're lying in a lot of respects, because, well, it's the final
13:48year of the contract, he is physically healthy right now, he's able to practice, so you almost have no choice
13:59but to give him the opportunity to compete for that job.
14:04And I got to be honest with you, I think he's going to win the job, I do, because he
14:09has the experience, he's been through off-season programs before, he has experience learning playbooks and changing offenses, there's no
14:19threat of him getting hit and run over and all those things in the off-season.
14:27But then the regular season, but then the regular season is going to come, and the reality of the game
14:31is moving faster than he's going to process, the game is moving faster than he's able to move, and we've
14:38seen this time and time again with him, coming off the suspension, coming off the shoulder injury.
14:43And I fully expect now, coming off the double ruptured Achilles, I have no expectation of Deshaun Watson resembling anything
14:54like an effective quarterback, because he hasn't done it much.
15:01And it's been 19 games over six years, that have included two full missed seasons in there.
15:13Yep.
15:13So that means over four years in which he was available to play, he still only played 19 games.
15:24Daryl, I'm willing to admit if I'm wrong about this, but the latter part of what you just said is
15:31the reason why I don't believe this lip service that Deshaun Watson actually has the ability to start this year.
15:39I think they're trying to put that out for Deshaun, so he doesn't make things messy, we're not going to
15:45the NFLPA, no tattletale business going on, it's a fair and honest quarterback competition.
15:51However, just like last year's was fair and honest, but go ahead.
15:55The Browns are a data-driven, analytically-driven organization, even in this post-Paul DePodesta world.
16:01They do love their data points.
16:03Maybe they're dumber than I'm about to give them credit for.
16:06It's fully possible.
16:08I think Andrew Barry's too smart.
16:10I think Todd Munkin is too smart.
16:13Kat Hickman.
16:14Everybody involved with decision-making at Lou Groza Boulevard, I think, is too intelligent to understand the variables of Deshaun
16:25Watson, right?
16:26The fact that this guy voluntarily took off a full season after he led the league in passing, he did.
16:33We'll give Watson his credit for what he did with the Texans in that last year there.
16:37He led the league in passing.
16:38They won four games.
16:39He voluntarily takes a year off.
16:41After signing a contract extension.
16:44Comes to Cleveland.
16:46Controversial trade.
16:48Gets suspended 11 games.
16:49They thought it was going to be significantly less than 11 games.
16:53League comes down.
16:54Kind of lays the hammer.
16:5511 games.
16:56Out.
16:56Whatever.
16:57Comes back on the field, shaking off the rust in those post-Jacoby Brissett games.
17:02It was bad, but he was at least able to bridge the gap to the end of the season.
17:06That following season, we played the same game.
17:08While he's still shaking off the rust.
17:10And then he broke his shoulder after the only good half.
17:13And I wouldn't even call it a good half.
17:15The only passable half of football that he played in a Browns uniform in the second half
17:20against the Baltimore Ravens.
17:21Where he was able to complete a lot of passes, even though they were around the line of scrimmage.
17:25And Kevin Stefanski pretty much made life.
17:27And Ken Dorsey made life as simple as they possibly could on Deshaun Watson.
17:31Well, he was playing with a broken shoulder in that game.
17:35He was.
17:37I mean, I got, I mean, I just, I have to give, listen, I got to give the credit where
17:42the
17:42credit is due.
17:43I mean, that was a pretty gutsy performance.
17:46Shoulder broken, out for the year, comes back the next year.
17:50Daryl, that 2024 season, the last that we saw Deshaun Watson on the football field for
17:57the Browns before the ruptured Achilles, it wasn't just bad.
18:01It was laughably bad.
18:03He was wildly inaccurate.
18:05He was dancing into sacks.
18:07The escapability, even though it was a shoulder injury, he just didn't look as fast or as athletic
18:13as he did even prior to the show.
18:16Like even in the Jacoby Brissett games, when he was able to return from the suspension,
18:21you at least saw some of the raw athleticism of Deshaun Watson, where it's like, this guy's
18:25not all there, but there are some of the same traits that made Deshaun Watson, Deshaun
18:29Watson in Houston.
18:30No, that was all gone.
18:31Don't need to tell me.
18:32It was all gone.
18:33So I think the Browns are too smart as an organization with all their data and all their information
18:38that they sit through in Berea and they just parcel through.
18:41There's too much working against Deshaun Watson that would tell them this guy can't be the
18:48answer to anything unless they're trying to openly tank.
18:51If they're trying to openly tank and you're trying to throw the season away and you want
18:55Arch Manning in 2027, then you probably want to put Deshaun Watson on the field because
18:59you know he's not very good.
19:01You know he's probably going to get hurt at some point and you're going to have to go
19:04to Shador or you're going to have to go to whichever young quarterback that they bring
19:07in in the draft, especially since Dylan Gabriel hasn't even been in the building since Todd
19:11Munkin's been hired.
19:12So I don't believe him.
19:14I think it's a lot of lip service.
19:16I'm not fearful that they're going to put Deshaun Watson on the field because nothing comes of
19:21it.
19:21They could cut him.
19:22Their cap sheet is another argument against it.
19:25They could cut him June 1st, 2027 and wipe their hands of it.
19:29Finally, mercifully.
19:31Why would they cloud that?
19:32If he plays just okay, look at what Sam Darnold got from playing just okay with Justin Jefferson,
19:38Kevin O'Connell and the Minnesota Vikings.
19:40Three years, $100 million deal.
19:42And Andrew Barry, you know, sitting there in Arizona saying there's no rule against extending
19:48Deshaun.
19:48Andrew, stop.
19:49There is a rule against extending Deshaun because you guys are getting ready to ask your
19:54fans for a very expensive, a very pricey move with these PSLs to Brook Park and nobody
19:59wants to see the dude play.
20:01So do the smart thing.
20:03It's opportunity cost.
20:05If you're not giving these reps to Shador Sanders, if you're not giving these snaps to
20:09whatever young quarterback that they draft in the third round, keep Deshaun the furthest
20:14thing away from actual football because nothing good comes of it.
20:17Nothing.
20:17That was the comment that almost made me fall out of my chair.
20:21There's no rule against it.
20:22Like there is a rule against it.
20:24Remember when they chased Baker out of town and the people, the idiots with their Twitter
20:28spaces are trying to chase Baker Mayfield out of town.
20:31What were they running with?
20:32Andrew Barry's comment that they were going to evaluate Baker's full body of work.
20:37And I thought that was very fair that when we're thinking about extending a player, the
20:41Cleveland Browns, we're not looking at the 2020 season when Baker led the Browns to the
20:45playoffs, we're not looking at the 2021 season when the shoulder injury just sabotaged everything.
20:51We're going to look at Baker Mayfield's full body of work.
20:55Darrell Reiter, you know what?
20:56Deshaun Watson's full body of work in a Cleveland Browns uniform tells me he can't play.
21:01He doesn't belong anywhere near an actual NFL regular season game because he's shown you
21:08absolutely nothing.
21:09So there's no rule against extending Deshaun Watson.
21:12Yeah.
21:13Except the rule that you made for the last guy that you chased out of town.
21:17Well, I, an Easter crash out for me about Deshaun Watson.
21:22You're welcome.
21:22Everybody feel better.
21:24I do a little sugar rush, little Easter basket, sugar rush.
21:27Some of those, some of those, uh, reesey eggs might've gotten to me.
21:30Is that what it was?
21:31I thought maybe you were just annoyed.
21:33Cause you got like those little tiny chocolate eggs wrapped in the foil and, and you have to
21:37like take five minutes to just unwrap.
21:39And then the foil gets stuck on the little piece of foil gets stuck on the chocolate
21:43and you get chocolate underneath your fingernail trying to get the foil off of it.
21:47But you know what?
21:47The chocolate totally worth it.
21:49It is not going to lie.
21:50So that is some of the richest milk chocolate.
21:52I don't even think those, those aren't even made by like a brand.
21:55Those Easter eggs, just like those chocolate foil eggs.
21:58They just spawn.
21:59Like nobody buys those.
22:01They're just around.
22:02Just keep the peeps away from me.
22:03That that's all I ask.
22:05I'm also anti-peep.
22:06Yeah.
22:06Just, just keep the peeps away from me.
22:08They're gross.
22:09Okay.
22:09Tummy ache waiting to happen.
22:11Yeah.
22:11Oh, sugar.
22:12Just, just sits in your stomach like a rock.
22:16But today is a very, very, today is the, uh, did I say anything wrong?
22:22Am I out of line about anything that I just said there?
22:24I just, you know, it's, it's, it's, um, it's nothing new.
22:30It's what we all know.
22:31It's what we all believe should happen, will happen.
22:36It's just the, the process of getting through this is painful.
22:41Um, you know, you, you mentioned the last year for Deshaun prior to, uh, rupturing the Achilles, right?
22:50I, I, I still remember those practices against the Vikings in Berea where, like, they couldn't even line up.
22:56Like, they couldn't line up.
22:59The, the, the offensive lineman would consistently false start.
23:02Uh, Deshaun looked absolutely terrible throwing the ball.
23:07And it just, it was a sign of what was to come.
23:12And I, you know, anything that happens between now and before the Buffalo Bills come to town for the joint
23:19practices,
23:20really going to be kind of meaningless.
23:22Because if, if you can't look good in practices in which there's no chance you're going to be sacked or
23:31be hit,
23:34um, and you're just simulating pressure and running around like a chicken with your head cut off, right?
23:40Or you're throwing on air, you're throwing seven on seven.
23:45Like, those are all practices that you should look good in.
23:50And I just, I, I am making a pledge to myself this offseason just not to get caught up in
24:00any of that nonsense.
24:01I just, I'm not doing it this year.
24:03I almost wonder when Josh Allen and the Bills do come to town, if that maybe could be the wake
24:09up to the Browns.
24:10Hello, they've got a quarterback and you don't.
24:13I wonder how the comparison will look.
24:14And here's...
24:15Of Josh Allen throwing the football against Deshaun Watson.
24:18And here's the other challenge for all of us that cover the team on a regular basis.
24:23We've never seen a great quarterback.
24:26We don't know what that looks like.
24:28We don't know what a Patrick Mahomes looks like in practice.
24:31We don't know what a Josh Allen looks like in practice or a Joe Burrow.
24:35Okay?
24:36We have no idea what that looks like.
24:39So, anytime a guy actually throws a ball that's on time or it's a tight spiral 50 yards down the
24:47field on the back shoulder,
24:48we, we just do an ah over it.
24:51Because we're just not used to seeing it.
24:54We're used to seeing ducks and interceptions and footballs on the ground and receivers that can't catch.
25:01That's what we're used to seeing.
25:03We're used to seeing slop.
25:06Slop.
25:07Okay?
25:07In practice, when you're supposed to look good.
25:11And this is why I was all over Dylan Gabriel when everyone was like,
25:14Oh, Dylan Gabriel, he's the future of the Browns.
25:17I'm like, dude can't even complete a pass in an on-air warm-up session.
25:23I saw him throw five straight incompletions during an on-air warm-up session.
25:32Okay?
25:34That's when I was done with Dylan Gabriel.
25:37The second time I was done with him was when I couldn't see where he was on the field.
25:42Don't miss this show throughout training camp, man.
25:45Sundays, 8 a.m. to noon.
25:47I can't wait.
25:49I mean, like, and then it became, oh, you have an axe to grind against the guy.
25:55No!
25:56He's a great kid.
25:58He really is.
26:00Nice as can be.
26:02Professional as can be.
26:04Smart as can be.
26:06Just, you know, the good one.
26:08Not visible from the opposing goal line.
26:11The good Lord could have, would have been nice if the good Lord blessed him with an extra four to
26:16five inches.
26:17It'd be an Easter miracle.
26:19Okay?
26:19Maybe a little more arm strength or whatever.
26:22But, like, that's why.
26:24Like, I saw it.
26:26So, like, I know what bad quarterback play looks like because I've watched it for 27 years.
26:32I've seen 42 of these guys walk through those doors.
26:37Okay?
26:38And, look, Derek Anderson was phenomenal in 2007.
26:43There were times where Brady Quinn looked like he was going to be it in practice.
26:47There were times where Brandon Whedon looked like he was it in practice.
26:55And then they actually had to play games.
26:57And then they actually had to play games.
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