00:00You know him from Yahoo Sports as an NFL draft analyst, you know, an NFL analyst, you know
00:04him as the creator of Reception Perception.
00:07Matt Harmon joins us right now.
00:09Matt, welcome to the show.
00:11What's going on, guys?
00:12Appreciate you having me.
00:13Yeah, very excited.
00:14The draft is, it feels so far away and yet so close at the same time.
00:18It's funny.
00:19This draft has taken a lot of turns where it felt like it stalled a couple times in
00:24terms of like interesting things.
00:26And then before you know it, something else gets kicked up.
00:28Obviously, the unfortunate stuff with Reuben Bain was a big talking point.
00:32I do want to start, though, with actually just the Browns side of things.
00:36Before we even get into the draft, just they're coming off a five-win season, new head coach.
00:42You know what it looks like the quarterback room's going to be.
00:46What's your big picture read on the Browns overall heading in to the NFL draft and certainly
00:52after that, the 2026 season?
00:55Yeah, I mean, this is a team that's obviously not starting over.
00:58But certainly, having yet another remake, that's been a theme for Cleveland the last
01:03few years.
01:04Obviously, I think the decision to hire Todd Monken maybe was not what most folks expected
01:10to happen.
01:11But I will say this.
01:12Like, Monken's an interesting personality.
01:14He's a unique guy.
01:15But I think from a schematic standpoint, like a play-calling standpoint, offensively, I've
01:21really enjoyed his work in Baltimore.
01:23I think he did a good job kind of pulling some of the schematic levers that you want to
01:28see, using a receiver like Zay Flowers across the formation, weaponizing him with motion at
01:34the snap, getting him in favorable situations to really highlight a guy that, for a lot of
01:39folks, you know, a sub-190-pound, sub-5'11 receiver would not be a full-time player for.
01:46They made Zay Flowers a full-time player.
01:48They got the best out of him as well.
01:50So I thought that's like a really encouraging feather in his cap.
01:54In addition to what they did in the run game with Lamar Jackson, of course.
01:56So I really like Todd Monken as an offensive coach.
01:59I think he's got to have, obviously, maybe not his work cut out for him, but it really
02:03just depends on what they add in the NFL draft.
02:06That's why I think this draft is so big for Cleveland, because the defense is close.
02:10Offensively, you have some really good, young, skilled position talent players.
02:14I mean, you've got Quinn John Judson.
02:16You've got Harold Phan.
02:17Like, there's some interesting players to build around.
02:19Jerry Judy, I think, was maybe miscast as the team's ex-receiver at times last year.
02:24I kind of preferred how they used him and Cedric Tillman in 2024 with Tillman as the ex
02:29after Amari Cooper was traded, and then Jerry Judy as your movement Z.
02:33I'd like to see them get back to that with Jerry Judy.
02:36And there's a lot of talent in this year's draft.
02:38Even certainly at six, where you might have your pick of the litter, you might have a guy
02:43who can play on the perimeter and allow you to do some of that with Judy there.
02:47All right, so in your opinion, who is the pick of the litter?
02:49Who should the Browns be hoping the most is there at six for them to take?
02:53Yeah, at wide receiver, I think it's Carnell Tate.
02:56You know, from a reception perception standpoint, he's got the seventh best success rate
03:00versus man coverage that I've charted since the 2021 NFL draft class.
03:04Like, this is a guy who you can just say fits all 32 NFL offenses.
03:08Like, for the other receivers in the class, I think Makai Lemon could have a higher production
03:13ceiling if he goes to the right spot.
03:16If he goes to a team that's really going to use that slot-based option.
03:19You know, for Jordan Tyson, I think he's got a high ceiling if the medicals work out.
03:23I also think he's the guy that sort of needs some role catering as an off-ball player to
03:27get him away from press coverage and allow him to really use the movements in his routes
03:31away from some tight cover situations.
03:34But for a guy like Carnell Tate, he's so refined.
03:37He's so good at the break point of routes.
03:39Like, all 32 offenses need a player who is going to win on the perimeter, is going to beat
03:44man coverage, and can high point the football.
03:46I mean, he is one of the most aesthetically pleasing players to watch catch the football
03:50I can remember over the last few draft classes.
03:53Because not only does, again, statistically have zero drops on the season, great contested
03:59catch rate.
03:59But just the way he attacks the football away from his frame, the catch radius is massive.
04:05Like, he's somebody that I think played a good bit of Z and X in college.
04:10I think you can line him up on the line of scrimmage on ball and be an X receiver in
04:14the league
04:14because he can handle press coverage, and he has that massive catch radius.
04:18So, he's somebody that not only solves the position of need for you there as a perimeter
04:22receiver, I think he also can allow other players to sort of slide into comfortable roles as
04:27well.
04:27So, whether he is going to become, you know, Malik Nabors type of talent who went high in
04:33the draft in 2024, you know, where he comes in and immediately is a 170 target pace type
04:38of player.
04:38That's a lot to ask for any rookie.
04:40That's an unusual rookie season.
04:42But I think he can come in and be an immediate starter and eventually grow to your top target
04:46player, which at 6 overall is perfectly good to me.
04:48Matt, I really like Jordan Tyson.
04:51Obviously, the health stuff is the biggest concern beyond the health.
04:54Where do you see his kind of best fits, and who do you think he is in the NFL?
05:00Yeah, Tyson admittedly of the guys that were, you know, first-round players that are generally
05:07great at it in that first- to second-round range, kind of if you want to call it the
05:11big three between Tate, Tyson, and Lemon at the beginning of the process when I started
05:16charting receivers.
05:17Admittedly, Tyson was the one who I took the longest to kind of try to figure out who he
05:22is or what role he best projects to in the NFL.
05:25That doesn't mean he's a bad player.
05:26Just, again, it's on me to figure out, like, what that role is.
05:29He's the best zone beater in the class, according to reception perception.
05:33One of the better zone beaters of the last few years, I think where he does struggle
05:38a little bit more is when he's lined up as that on-ball receiver against press coverage,
05:42and especially on routes that he needs to get into with multiple breaks.
05:47That's something that I do think he needs to get better on from a timing and tempo perspective.
05:51It's obvious when you watch him.
05:53You can watch his 10 best routes and, like, 10 best plays, and you look at him and you're
05:57like, why is this guy not the number one receiver in the class?
06:01He's clearly fluid.
06:02He's got the loose hips that you want to see from someone, and that, like, gives you a
06:06good base to work on.
06:07Like, that's a really good building block for something that he can get better and better
06:10at as a route runner.
06:11I think, again, he needs to work on the pace, the timing, and the tempo of his routes in
06:15order to get into those breaks more efficiently.
06:17But actually, again, to use the Judy example from 2024, this is an issue that Jerry Junius had
06:22throughout the course of his NFL career, where there's a little bit too much wasted motion.
06:26There's a little bit too much dancing at the top of routes, especially when you're throttling down
06:30on working back to the quarterback.
06:32However, you can work around that by having Jerry Judy, which is what they did in 2024,
06:36run as the Z receiver.
06:38Don't get him into the slot where he needs, like, these multiple breaking routes.
06:41Use him as the Z receiver.
06:42Get him away from press coverage and have him run these one-cut breaking routes, especially
06:46for the shots-off play action.
06:48I think Tyson would benefit from a role like that as well.
06:51So really good player.
06:53I just think there are areas of growth that he needs to kind of go for an individual player
06:58standpoint in addition to some of the health questions.
07:01Yeah, Matt, I mean, one of the things you do best is wide receivers and your evaluation
07:04of wide receivers.
07:05So if we stay with the wide receiver theme then, if they go offensive line at six, who
07:10do you think the Browns should go at 24 that's within being realistic of the convo?
07:16Right, and being realistic is tough, especially in this draft, because I do think once we get
07:21out of maybe the top 10 to 12 players, I think it's going to be pretty wide open in this
07:27draft
07:27class.
07:27Like, there are not, most evaluators I talk to don't have 20 first-round grades.
07:32Most evaluators I talk to certainly do not have 32 first-round grades.
07:35That's generally the case.
07:36It's certainly the case this year.
07:38Some guys are pushing, like, you know, hard to get to 15 first-round grades in this class.
07:43And what that means is that I think that back half of round one is going to be really up
07:47in the air.
07:48We could see a lot of different options that we were not considering from a media consensus
07:52standpoint that go in the first round.
07:54So we could see a lot of shocking picks, I think, in the back half of the first round
07:58just kind of based on how ambiguous everybody's boards are going to be.
08:02So that being said, it's kind of hard to pinpoint exactly wide receivers which would be available
08:06in 24, but I think if a guy like Casey Concepcion is there at 24, I run that card up.
08:11I just am such a big fan of this player.
08:14I think he's the best separator in the class.
08:16He demolishes press man coverage, wins at all three levels.
08:21Obviously, he has a drop issue on tape in college.
08:24There's no question about that.
08:25He's got some bad habits where he'll clap at the football, he'll lose focus, and think
08:29about what he's going to do with it before he cleanly secures and catches the football.
08:33Those are areas that can be corrected, though, at the NFL level.
08:36I think it's much harder to find somebody who can separate at his level and much easier
08:41to kind of ease those bad habits out of his game.
08:46So he's someone I love.
08:47I've got him as second-best receiver in the class after Carnell Tate.
08:51He's available at 24.
08:52I run that card up.
08:54Otherwise, though, Denzel Boston would allow you to have an ex-receiver option who could,
09:00again, move Jerry Judy to flanker and get the best out of him, essentially getting almost
09:04a two-for-one deal there.
09:06And then Omar Cooper Jr., I think, is a viable late first-round pick as well and gives you
09:11a totally different flavor at the wide receiver position than any of the guys that they have.
09:16Like, deeper down the depth chart for Cleveland, I think when Tillman is healthy, he's still
09:20a credible ex-receiver.
09:22I think Isaiah Bond has some bad habits in his game, but is certainly a viable speed-based
09:27player.
09:27They don't have a guy on the roster who I think you can just spit the ball out to and
09:32get
09:33plus yardage after the catch.
09:35And Cooper, to me, is the best player in the class with the ball in his hands at the wide
09:39receiver position.
09:40And this is the fact that, like, he can do some real-deal receiver stuff as well.
09:44I kind of compare him for the way he runs, like, out-breaking routes to what the Bears
09:48got in Luther Burden last year.
09:50And I think Cooper checks more boxes from a character standpoint than Burden did for a
09:55lot of teams last year.
09:57And I think he will end up going at late first-round rate.
09:59So a lot of different options there.
10:00I think, from a realistic standpoint, there's a chance all three of those guys could certainly
10:04be available until 25th.
10:06Matt, just because the Browns might not just need one wide receiver, they could certainly
10:10go for another.
10:11A name that has been shooting up draft boards across the NFL has been Georgia State's Ted
10:17Hurst, who's 6'4", about 2'10".
10:19What can you tell us about this guy, and where do you think his range is in this draft?
10:24Yeah, it's always tough with the lower-level guys, what their range might be.
10:28I think when you watch Ted Hurst, he immediately just looks different than everybody else that
10:33he's playing against, which is a good starting point for if you're at Georgia State.
10:36You want to stand out from the lower level of competition.
10:39Now, I do think there's some rawness to Ted Hurst's game, especially as a vertical receiver.
10:44I think he's got to get better at, like, truly stacking and shedding and separating from
10:49coverage on go-routes, vertical kind of on that stem of the route.
10:53I think that's sort of where he does need to improve to truly make the most of that
10:596'4", 200-pound frame.
11:02At the same time, though, where I really like him is sort of on these breaking routes, almost
11:06what I would call, like, a slasher perimeter receiver.
11:09He reminds me a little bit of, like, Torrey Horton in last year's class.
11:12And Torrey Horton went in the fifth round.
11:14Torrey Horton was not a fifth-round talent.
11:16Torrey Horton went in the fifth round because he had injury concerns.
11:18He was coming off of an injury.
11:19And, unfortunately, he got hurt in his rookie year, so maybe those were justified.
11:23But Torrey Horton, to me, at least, was more of, like, a second-round talent that went
11:27in the fifth round because of those injuries.
11:29And I think Horton was used for Seattle.
11:31It was pretty much like an early hit for them before, again, he got hurt.
11:35He was really starting to come on in the middle of his rookie year on a lot of those deeper
11:39post routes, over routes, dig routes, horizontal breaking patterns over the middle of the field.
11:44I think that's where Ted Hurst does his best work.
11:46So I think initially in the NFL, you're looking at it in that way.
11:50He's got that route three.
11:52He's got that portfolio.
11:53And then as he grows and expands, then you can kind of have him, again, develop on the
11:58job as that vertical receiver.
11:59So maybe by year three, he's ready to be, like, an ex-receiver starter because there's
12:03no question he's got the traits.
12:04And when he's right and tight on the details from a release move standpoint, he can get
12:09off press coverage.
12:10Again, it's just he's coming from a lower level.
12:11You might need a couple of years of development.
12:14Matt, great stuff, buddy.
12:15We appreciate you, especially as we are thirsty for good wide receivers here.
12:20You're giving us a lot to kind of chew on.
12:21We appreciate you.
12:23No question.
12:23I appreciate you guys.
12:24Thanks so much for the time.
12:26Matt Harmon there.
12:27Yahoo Sports creator of Reception Perception and the Make It Right Call Kyle Wright Hotline.
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