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00:00From Sumer Sports, Lindsey Rhodes joins us now on the Make It Right Call Kyle Wright Hotline.
00:05Lindsey, welcome to the show. Hi, guys. How are you doing? We're doing all right here. We've had
00:10some Donnie Brooks today on not with well, actually with each other, too, but with other
00:14people as well. So I'm going to ask you a hypothetical question that is in no way a
00:19literal question about a trade that won't happen. But if Jalen Hurts was available,
00:26would you trade the sixth pick in the draft for Jalen Hurts?
00:33Yes. Okay. It's the right answer. Am I okay? Where is this falling based on the
00:41conversations that you've had already? Because I did see that you guys tweeted
00:43that out to promote the show, and I was thinking about it and kind of going through
00:47a list of quarterbacks, and the answer was honestly a lot. It's an interesting
00:52question because the answer is the quarterbacks that you would trade the
00:56number six overall pick for, you'd trade more than the number six overall pick for,
01:01and then the ones that you wouldn't. You know what I mean? It's like it's a very
01:05stark line. Like it would be more, it would, most of the quarterbacks that the
01:10answer would be yes would have to actually include more. Okay, because I, and I want
01:14to hear that list, but like my thought process on it was like open market,
01:17Deshaun got three. Matthew Stafford hadn't won a playoff game, and he got two.
01:23Russell Wilson, when he was already dead and buried, got two from Denver, and then
01:26like, you can get a like... He wasn't dead then yet, by the way. I mean, in all
01:31fairness, I think we saw the death coming, but I think that was a small group of
01:36people that saw that death coming. And he still, Seattle saw it coming, and he
01:39still got two first. Denver did not. No, Denver didn't. But like, even like,
01:43there's been defensive players that get multiple firsts. Laramie Tunsil, Jalen Ramsey
01:47twice. Like, I think Jalen Hart's in the open market. I think if you get a six
01:51overall pick, Lindsay, look at that as a bargain. Yeah, I do too. Yeah, I started to
01:56go down the list, like pulling up our quarterback data pages at sumersports.com
02:02and just filtering by like, I mean, it filters automatically by totally PA. So
02:07going down the list, like obviously Drake, Jordan Love, you're doing it. You're not
02:11doing it for Stafford, but only because he's old. Josh Allen, you're doing it.
02:15Patrick Mahomes, you're doing it. Like how many, how many picks would, I know that
02:19was the conversation that I heard people having. Oh no, maybe that was just us. We
02:23were having a conversation at Sumer about like, on the heels of the Browns
02:28proposed rule change to how many years out you could trade draft picks. We were
02:34like, how many firsts would you have to offer for someone to actually think about
02:40it for Patrick Mahomes? Like if you could actually go five years out now, are you
02:44like, like, where's that number, you know, for Patrick, which is a separate
02:49Yeah, I mean, I would do it instantly. Yeah, I don't want to know because Jimmy
02:52Haslam's thought of it. Maybe that's why they're changing the rule. I'm just
02:58kidding. Yeah, that's, by the way, that's exactly what I'm afraid of while we're
03:01So I think in the Browns mentioned parody in the, in, in their five reasons why
03:08they thought this made sense, uh, that they think that this is a good thing that
03:12it'll add to, to parody. I think it goes the opposite way. I like, I like, uh, the
03:18five, the salary cap, you can finagle that across a three to five year period where
03:23dead cap won't kill you. If your owner's willing to spend, you can't finagle three
03:28straight years without a first round pick. You just can't. I mean, you, you have
03:34to be so good at drafting in the later rounds, like the team. I mean, the Rams
03:38are a perfect example. Cause I mean, they, they, I feel like they actually kind of
03:43could and sort of proved that they could with the, the wake of the Matthew
03:47Stafford deal, even though that's not three, but you're, um, if you have a system
03:53in place where you go, okay, we're going to give up our, our, our resources at a
03:58specific number of positions. We've identified like the positional value
04:01positions, maybe that like make us, us tick. And this is where we're going to
04:04invest. And then everywhere else we're going to nail the draft. And then they've
04:08just, they've just demonstrated an ability to do that. Like they pull a lot of
04:11value out of the later rounds, um, and feel like they've kind of found some cheat
04:15codes in that sense, but it does put you in a position to be really good at that.
04:20If you're going to get rid of those first round picks, because now you don't, and the
04:24first round pick has to hit, cannot get hurt. Like what happened with Deshaun
04:28Watson can't happen, you know, cause then now you're just, you're so far behind the
04:33eight ball. You don't even have the value that you thought you were giving all of
04:35this up for, and you don't have the resources to kind of fix the problem. So
04:41yeah, I think it's really, I think it's interesting. I wonder if Miles Garrett is
04:44factored into it, not to bring up trading Miles Garrett again, cause I learned my
04:47lesson last time, but that is something that popped into my head. I came up
04:52yesterday in conversation, we were talking about the Browns trying to, to, um, change
04:57this rule. Cause like, why would the Browns, you know, that's the thought process
05:01they're like, why is the Brown, why are the Browns the ones that are, that are
05:04making this rule proposal have to benefit them in some way. It has to have come up
05:09in conversation for them. And now it's something that they can't do that they
05:11would want to do. And, you know, Miles is somebody I think you'd have to consider
05:15in that, in that sense. So I just want, yeah, could you get for him? How many years?
05:19Lindsay, I didn't think it was about Miles or even like Arch Manning, for
05:22instance, I just thought like the, the trades outside of the Sean excluded
05:25obviously. Uh, but like in recent years with Andrew Barry and you can look to the
05:29trades he's done with Jacksonville, for instance, where he fleeced Gladstone
05:31twice. I feel like he thinks he's really good at it. And I feel like, I think he
05:35thinks it's a strength of his. And so like the more picks you can offer up, the
05:38more wheeling and dealing we have in the NFL. And then the more teams as
05:42analytical and smart as he is, the more teams he feels like you just take
05:45advantage of. Yeah. It was definitely like, yes, yes. There's a, how much do I
05:50value these compared to how much do I think you value these? Um, and so
05:54there's a conversation to be had about that. I do think going back to picks in
05:58the draft, I'm really interested. I was looking at the Brown stuff today in
06:02preparation to talk to you. And, um, that six pick, uh, is really interesting to me
06:08because I, I, in a lot of ways, what I think I'm tagging in the first round for
06:16the Browns, the six and 24 is, um, I think tackle and wide receiver are my top
06:22priorities. And, um, but the tackle at six is really interesting based on what the
06:29Browns already have on the offensive line, what they don't have on the
06:31offensive line, what they seem like they need. So before we go any further here, what
06:36do you think is the, is it left specifically? Does it have to be a left
06:40tackle? Where do you see the tackle situation? Oh, you're about to start a
06:43Donnybrook here. I fear. Um, I, that's what I do. I get a little afraid that the
06:49Browns are shoehorning themselves into, we need a left tackle in the draft, which
06:53pretty much feels like a one way ride to Freeling, which feels like a reach at
06:58six. I would rather go wide receiver at six and then tackle later or offensive
07:03Lyman later. I agree with that idea. Like I I'd rather go wide receiver and
07:07then tackle. And the assessment of, uh, really the, the bet there with the left
07:11tackle with Freeling is when we take him over starting to one Jones. And I
07:15understand if the Browns just don't trust to one Jones at this point.
07:21So interesting. Cause if you go wide receiver at six, then which wide receiver
07:26are you going? Oh, we both like Tyson.
07:30Wait, you like Jordan Tyson at six? We're worried about his medicals. Yes. But
07:34as a, as a collective, as a collective, we've come together with, uh, with liking
07:38him more than like Carnell Tate. We like, but Carnell Tate seems more like Robin
07:41than Batman. And, uh, that'll be interesting. And then we're both out on
07:45lemon. You're, you're out on London. Why?
07:50Adam gay size. It's too weird for us.
07:53Too weird for us.
07:54Okay. That's not, that's not a serious answer.
07:56Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and I, you're just throwing him right in the
08:00slot. I just don't think his ceiling is nearly as high. Like it just doesn't
08:03seem, it doesn't seem like a number six. That's the answer.
08:06Does that feel like a good a dot for Shador who I get is not, I like, you're
08:11not building an offense around Shador, right? Like you, I mean, you definitely
08:14want to maximize what he can do in the short term for sure. But like, you know,
08:18that might not be your long-term answer quarterback. And so you're not
08:21committing to pieces around that, but in the short term, I wonder if,
08:27building out that area of the field that those depths is, is a smart thing to
08:31do. I'm also a little bit, okay, let me, let me float a different idea here.
08:35If we do go tackle at six and I, I do agree with you, like feels like
08:39freeling is a little bit of a reach there. And so I, I, or Caden Proctor, um,
08:46which leads to a dude, does he try to work the board and move down just to the
08:51right range, um, where he can get that guy? Or do they not overthink which tackle
08:57it has to be and potentially go like a Maui Noah or somebody like that and just
09:00take whoever they deem to be the best offensive lineman on the board at six and
09:05then go, go wide receiver, um, um, later. But if that is, uh,
09:14the, the, the, the separate option here from a pass catching standpoint at 24,
09:19would they consider, do you think maybe Sadiq if he's available at 24?
09:25Because the, uh, you no longer have obviously Najoku, you have Fannin, Fannin's great,
09:31but the Browns ran the highest rate of 12 personnel in the NFL last season at a 41% clip
09:36and noting that the coaching staff is different. So did the Ravens. Ravens were third at 35%. So
09:43this is a big part of Monken's offense also. So it feels a little bit like if you add Sadiq
09:48potentially, you can still utilize those 12 personnel concepts that benefit the run game
09:53and maybe open things up in the pass game. And you're adding another pass catching weapon
09:58who can hit those intermediate middle areas of the field along with Fannin.
10:03And maybe you're adding like a high-end pass catching weapon that can kind of check the box
10:09that we're looking for in the wide receiver room without actually being a wide receiver.
10:13Lindsay, maybe this is my Browns trauma talking here. So we're going to leave that open.
10:18I don't draft receivers or tight ends who are allergic to catching the football.
10:24I cannot, that's not fair. It's a little fair. What do we love about Fannin? Fannin just caught
10:29everything. The man catches everything. Sadiq, can we say occasional oopsies, a little bit more oopsies
10:34than you want from, uh, from your second or first tight end?
10:40Maybe, but there's so many things about him to like, like, I, I, I don't know. I like Sadiq.
10:47I think that Sadiq is, uh, seems to be clearly the top tight end in this class. Talk to a
10:55lot of
10:55evaluators and scouts on our staff that really, really like him. I think, I don't know, maybe,
11:01maybe because you have a Fannin who is a great pass catching tight end that you can, of all teams,
11:08metabolize like a Sadiq and, and play to his strengths and not to his weaknesses.
11:12I see what's happened here. You haven't watched enough Anthony Schwartz in your life
11:17and you haven't lived through the, Hey, I'm really athletic, but I couldn't catch a cold
11:23in the middle of a COVID epidemic. That's, I think that's where we're going here.
11:28All right. I'm going to have to go revisit these Kenyan Sadiq numbers here because I feel like
11:33you're painting a picture that is a little bit unfair, but we'll circle back. All right. Uh,
11:37in the meanwhile, in the meanwhile, she probably is right. Uh, but in the meanwhile, uh, JJ McCarthy,
11:42is that a realistic option for the Browns? Or you feel like the Vikings are hanging on to him
11:45and the move with Carson Wentz is just kind of like Max Prosmer insurance.
11:49I mean, are you, are you, are you moving off of anyone to move to Carson Wentz on purpose?
11:56I wouldn't. No, no, you can't. No. Yes. No. That, I mean, that has to just be insurance for them.
12:04There's no way you can't move off of, I mean, unless they think that they could get something for JJ
12:09McCarthy would be getting for JJ McCarthy. Like JJ McCarthy's value is as low as JJ McCarthy's
12:13value is ever going to be. They used a one on him. Like, I think it, I personally just think
12:19it doesn't make any sense to, um, and I think that the Vikings are a team that is never thinking
12:25like, you know what, let's just float this year. Like, let's just win in the future, but like,
12:29let's just build up assets. I think that they feel like they need to be in it. And, and honestly,
12:34with some of them, I mean, with Justin Jefferson on that team, like, come on. So I, I think you,
12:40you play out JJ McCarthy, you give them another year, you allow them to develop. Um, or, uh, I mean,
12:49you can't pivot off of that to Carson Wentz. I just don't know that you're going to be able to
12:52Carson Wentz is the guy that you bring in to, if you have to, if he gets hurt or it's
12:57an absolute
12:57S Joe, I don't think you can actually like purposefully go, you know what we're going to do this
13:03year. It's Carson. I don't think you can go. I think what we're going to do this year is JJ
13:08McCarthy. If you're the Vikings. And so I might think the only thing interesting about that is
13:12the, one of the reports out there was that Quesi Adolfo Mensah, the previous GM forced JJ
13:19McCarthy on Kevin O'Connell. And I think that's, it almost becomes like a regime change.
13:25Kevin O'Connell kind of through different channels talking about how bad JJ McCarthy was in practice
13:29and like consistently bad. Like if they, if they get a chance to move off of them, maybe
13:33I just, I just think Lindsay, I think the process is awful. If you take somebody and then 10 games
13:39in, you're like, we're just done with them. I think that process is my point. That's my point.
13:43And even if it wasn't his process, like it's, you just, you can't do it. Like the investment's
13:48been made. You can't say, okay, we're done. Um, I mean, you need to give them at least one
13:56more season to prove that there's no way for him to grow. But then also then why would
14:02the Browns want him? Like if that's, what's coming out of Minnesota and we're so desperate
14:06to get rid of him that we're going to pivot to Carson Wentz, somebody who didn't work out
14:10in Indianapolis when they were looking for, for this very thing. Like, I, I just don't
14:16know. I don't know what the, the strategic thought process would have been. Like, I think
14:22that if, if, if you know, going into this off season, if you're the Vikings and you're
14:26like, you know what, we got to move off. Cause this is not our guy. This was Questy's
14:30guy. I don't want him. Can't win with him. You've got to be more aggressive to make other
14:34moves. And I don't like, it's just, it's not going out and find Carson Wentz. That's not
14:41the aggressive move.
14:42I think it was the Kyler Murray thing.
14:44There weren't, there aren't, it's not like there were a bunch of quarterbacks, like just,
14:47you know, but there were other ones that you could get in the conversation for to at least
14:52look like you're, you're trying.
14:56Counterpoint from the Brown side of things. A year ago, they did trade a fifth rounder
15:00for Kenny Pickett, who was booty cheeks in Pittsburgh.
15:05I know this is really loaded. I'm throwing a lot of loaded stuff at you, Lindsay.
15:10No, but I'm just saying like, but, but the goal, but that's a depth move, which is the
15:15point. Like you're, if you're going to trade a fifth rounder, that's somebody that you just
15:18want to put on your roster as like a backup, as a veteran that you could put in, if you
15:23have to put in, not as somebody that is your, your guy that you're going to, you know, have
15:29take the field in week one as, as the, the whole, like, let's build the boat around him
15:34for this season.
15:36Well, and so I really think that the Browns are just doing this transition year thing.
15:40And I think it's going to be Shador versus Deshaun. And then ultimately we're going to
15:43play for either Shador being awesome or Shador sucking.
15:46And then you either get to draft in 2027 or you then are obviously, you know, set up
15:51in a position of where Shador is awesome and he's cheap and affordable and everything
15:54else. So I, Oh, do you see it that way? You see that you see their plan and what
15:57they're potentially trying to do here.
16:00Yeah. I mean, I don't think it's a purposeful plan. I think it's a plan that they got
16:03backed into and they just don't have any other options. Like, because I don't, if
16:07you're, if you're Cleveland and by the way, like, just to be clear with the JJ McCarthy
16:11stuff, I'm saying with Minnesota, if you know, you're moving off of him and you
16:15don't want him to be your starter this year, that is unacceptable outcome to you to the
16:19degree where you would trade him and go Carson Wentz. Then you have to be aggressive in an
16:24off season that has very few options for you to go get like, but, but you got to be one
16:29of those buyers. You can't be the musical chairs person who's left without a chair.
16:33You have to be aggressive to make sure that doesn't happen. The Cleveland Browns, I think
16:37are in a position where I agree with your assessment that this is not the year. You're not
16:42going to go like make a Superbowl run right now. Ideally you'd like much better quarterback
16:46play. And so you can maximize what miles care is bringing to the table on defense. But I
16:52think you go, we got to ride this out. We used two picks last year, even though they
16:56weren't high picks on quarterbacks. So now we just got to kind of play with what we have
16:59here. Unless somebody falls to us in like a later round, take another dart throw in the
17:04third or later. If that presents itself fine, but I don't know that it makes much sense
17:08to put three quarterbacks in their first two years in the same quarterback room, but like,
17:14you know, darts at a dartboard, I suppose. But I, I kind of think you give Shadour and I am
17:20actually leaving Deshaun out of the conversation. I'm going Shadour and Dylan in some combination
17:25of that next year, you start with Shadour. If that doesn't work out, maybe you go back to Dylan,
17:31whatever you get through the season. And now you either get an answer that's good about one of them.
17:36One of them, you know, starts to show signs that like, you like Tyler Shuff did in New Orleans,
17:42not part of the plan necessarily, but they were like, Oh, Hey, maybe we change our plan because
17:46maybe we don't have to make quarterback a priority at the moment. Cause he's good enough
17:52put people around him. I think that you could end up in that situation. If you're Cleveland,
17:59ideally, if Shadour or Dylan or somebody emerges this season. And then if not, then you draft a
18:04quarterback next year in a year where there are better options and more options.
18:09Lindsay, we appreciate you. This was fun. Thank you for not trading miles this time,
18:15but until the next time, when again, the next, this is, it's been two straight calls that you
18:20haven't traded miles scared from the Browns. The next time you're going to have to.
18:25Okay. Okay. I'll keep that in mind.
18:26Like the Browns, they've run out of options. We're transitioning to another quarterback a year
18:31from now. You're going to do the same thing with miles with trades for you. Okay. All right. I'll
18:35come up with some ideas. Thank you, Lindsay, but only five picks. All right. See you. Bye.
18:40Lindsay Rhodes, their Sumer sports and the Megan Wright call Kyle Wright hotline. It doesn't feel
18:44like they feel like they have the same luxury this year with how people are talking about the Browns.
18:48And even within that, it feels like this is a very tricky draft for Andrew Barry, which gives me a
18:55lot
18:55of anxiety. It's like an incredibly tricky draft. Think about all these convos we've had. And they're
18:59like, when the moment you talk about six, it comes with, well, all right, if you're going
19:02to go freeling or if you don't go freeling, what are you going to do then with, with, with
19:07DeJuan Jones, what are you gonna do with left tackle? If not, are we going to be, we're going
19:10to use some of the versatility that you got on the line and then mix those guys around?
19:13Like, like, it's just, it's not cut and dry. I like when it's cut and dry. It's not cut
19:17and dry. Yeah. And I mean, even I, it's so funny. I've never seen more fans like the trade down
19:23that happened last year. People got on board with it, but the initial reaction was a little
19:29bit of anger about a missing on the generational player and Travis Hunter. Yeah. People wanted
19:34Travis Hunter. So this feels like a year where all Browns fans are team trade down. The problem
19:40is so are jets fans. So are Cardinals fans. Everybody wants to, once you're past five,
19:45you want to get rid of this pick, but it's not really even just about the 2027 draft, which
19:50I think is a convenient out to take. No, it's that it's a really complicated draft. And I think
19:55it's interesting. I did just to start because, you know, when we talked about Jordan Tyson at six,
19:59Lindsay seemed to front it. And I think it's really interesting. Like if you're a slower wide
20:04receiver and you get dinged for that, it makes sense that you fall out of the top 20. If you
20:10are
20:11a T-Rex arm haven left tackle candidate, I totally understand if you fall.
20:19I don't really think if Jordan Tyson is worth the 13th pick because injuries are 14th pick.
20:26I think he should be worth the six pick in this draft. Like I don't, I don't think I continue
20:30want to make this point. There are things that say, all right, that's a good 25th pick.
20:35It's not a good six pick, right? Or Hey, I'd take them at 30. I wouldn't take them at 20,
20:40right? Injuries are a yes or no. It is either you're on the board or you're off the board.
20:45I understand the risk, but if you, if this is a, if this is a draft devoid of blue collar,
20:51sorry, blue collar, blue chip talent, guys, I think if you take the injury off, I think
20:56Jordan Tyson is a blue chip prospect. But the other part of this too, is the idea that
21:00we had 13 wide receivers go a year ago in, in the first two rounds and, and they're expecting
21:06it to be that same number and higher. Like we could have the most amount of wide receivers
21:10taken in the first two rounds that we've ever seen in the NFL draft in general. And so like,
21:14like we gotta, you gotta kind of factor some of this stuff in. Like if we talk about the
21:17first three, what's the big difference between them? And then a guy I like in like Denzel
21:21Boston, for instance, if he ends up going at 24, we can make the same argument when we're
21:25talking about the offensive line and what you do with a guy like Monroe Freeling, who
21:29Joe DeLeon doesn't even have as a first day one grade.
21:32And it really kills me the trade down stuff. Cause I agree that I would, especially if there's a
21:392027 first or second round pick being dangled to move down, I'd rather that than like another
21:44third round pick this year. Cause I just think you need more assets next year to try and push
21:49into it. It just seems incredibly unlikely that any team's going to do that. Exactly. And I, I think
21:55like, I think this is a rare situation where on draft night, if the Browns just stick at six
22:00and they just take whoever, whether it's a, the best left tackler, the best wide receiver
22:04or the best player available, there's going to be a whole mess of Clevelanders just screaming.
22:09Why didn't you trade down? And I, as if the option was just sitting there for him and it's
22:14something that you can just obviously achieve. I, I, I think as we get closer and closer to
22:19this thing, I think more and more people are just going to be accepting of whatever they
22:21do. I just, I don't think, I think they look at the draft and I think they can see how
22:26this is. It may be within context, obviously, like as long as it's a tackle or a
22:30wide receiver, I think people are just going to be happy about it and just kind of go along
22:33with it. I think because of where people's opinion is of the Browns, eight wins in two
22:38years, I think it's going to be the opposite. No, but I think, I think it's going to be
22:41really hard to get everyone on the same page about a pick in a weird way though. And I
22:46haven't given this to them exclusively, but other people have it because of what happened
22:50in last year's draft. Some people think that this is the only competent thing they can
22:54do. Like when they talk about Andrew Barry, they just ignore every other draft he's
22:57ever done. And they think about last year's draft as if that's like the strength. And
23:01so I, I wonder if they're going to give him more leeway based off of last year.
23:06Don't do that. We should, we should really, but I'm saying we won't do it. I think the
23:11only thing I think people are going to do staying at six because he's an Ohio state
23:15kid. I think Carnell would have the highest Q rating of guys you'd take at six. I'm not
23:20saying it'd be a bad pick. I'm just saying it is one of the picks that kind of makes me
23:25go, man, I hope he's more than what people think he is.
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