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00:00Strongly caution, this program contains some material that is unsuitable for young children.
00:30Beyond the Tape, we'll be back after these messages.
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03:40Welcome to Beyond the Tape.
03:53I'm your host, Mark Bassan.
03:54Welcome to our viewers across Trinidad and Tobago.
03:57Our viewers across the world.
03:59And of course, our brothers and sisters in the Isle of Grenada.
04:03It's Wednesday.
04:04It's Wednesday.
04:05Guess what?
04:06You know what's Wednesday.
04:07Apart from it being the middle of the week, it's Legally Speaking Wednesdays.
04:11And joining us is none other than Sergeant Zahir Ali of the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.
04:16And at Tanya.
04:17Welcome, sir.
04:18Well, thank you very much, Mark, for your warm welcome, Legally Speaking Wednesday.
04:25You know, Mark, if I go on to, you know, to recognize the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago
04:31and other persons, that word, Legally Speaking, we have seen within the last couple of days
04:38that the rule of law has been tested in many different ways.
04:41You know, the declaration of the state of emergency, we've seen a lot of civil litigation,
04:48and we've seen the enforcement of the rule of law.
04:51So I think it's very, very significant as we speak.
04:55But to the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago, you know, good evening to you.
04:58And, you know, I want to immediately ask you, you know, on behalf of the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service,
05:02the commissioner and the executive, to continue to stay calm, you know, continue to be responsible
05:07and allow the law enforcement agencies, you know, to continue to preserve safety and security for Trinidad and Tobago.
05:14Jackie and other family members on Beyond the Tape, my colleagues in the law enforcement agencies,
05:20I'm fully aware of the risk that is associated with, you know, our rule and functions,
05:29but I'm asking you all to, you know, hold firm to your oath of office to protect and defend Trinidad and Tobago.
05:36So Mark, it's a pleasure to be here, and, you know, I hope I can assist as we go forward this afternoon.
05:41Yes, certainly, and you have a lot to cover, a lot of ground to cover today, of course.
05:46You know, ongoing police operations as we enter, or rather it's day five of the state of emergency.
05:53Or is it day six? I lost track. Oh, it's day six. Thanks, producer.
05:58And, you know, there was an exercise overnight, and the commissioner confirmed that exercise,
06:05and we just want to take a listening to the commissioner.
06:09The Coover District for the purpose of searching for firearms and ammunition.
06:15But upon entry, they were confronted by an individual who engaged them with a firearm.
06:22Responding to the immediate threat, officers discharged their service-issued weapons, injuring the suspect in the process.
06:30Despite efforts to secure medical attention at the Coover Health Facility, the individual later succumbed to his injuries.
06:41A firearm was recovered at the scene, and investigations remain ongoing.
06:47Also last night, Central Division officers responded to a report of a shooting incident at a residence in the vicinity of the Coover Fire Station.
06:59Upon arrival, they discovered a female victim suffering from a gunshot wound.
07:04She was immediately transported to the Coover Health Facility as well, and she remains in a critical condition.
07:11However, preliminary findings revealed that the initial report given to the police did not match with the initial observations made by the police.
07:23And officers immediately detained a male individual.
07:28We recovered a firearm with ammunition, and that person is now in custody assisting with the investigation.
07:36We didn't stop there.
07:38Central Division officers again conducted a targeted operation in the Enterprise District, which resulted in the seizure of cocaine, marijuana and ammunition.
07:49Two individuals were taken into custody and are currently assisting officers with inquiries.
07:54And, collectively, these events reflect a challenging operational landscape that demands both vigilance and precision.
08:04The TTP is continues to act decisively in the interests of public safety, whilst pursuing accountability and justice through investigative rigor.
08:15Illegal firearms are the biggest threat to this country, at this time.
08:20And my officers continue to recover them on a daily basis.
08:24The feedback and information coming from the public has been overwhelming.
08:29And I want to publicly thank you for showing us that you trust us to share your information with us.
08:37And as you can see, it is being acted upon.
08:40Partnership with the public is key.
08:43So, Police Commissioner Alistair Guevara sending out a voice note this morning.
08:49Following last night's latest operation in the Central District, where officers had caused to, of course, engage a suspect.
08:59He was shot and killed.
09:01And then, of course, there was a shooting incident separate.
09:04And apart from that, where the entire situation seemed to be very suspect in terms of the female victim.
09:11And they had to go and revisit to try and apprehend that particular suspect.
09:14And then, lastly, of course, he spoke about the arrest of two persons in the enterprise area, quantity of drugs, as well as some illicit firearms and so on, recovered.
09:26Yeah, well, Mark, you know, I want to, you know, fully endorse, you know, the Commissioner of Police, you know, statements, you know, that was just played for the listening public.
09:35And, again, it's evidence of the Commissioner of Police, you know, maintaining that effective and consistent communication with members of the public to keep them aware, you know, of all the significant developments and, you know, to continue to build that trust and confidence.
09:50But, you know, one thing I'd like to magnify that the Commissioner said, which is extremely important, when he recognized the overwhelming, you know, just to quote him, the overwhelming information for members of the public.
10:05And, you know, he said something very key as well in terms of the decisive action that the police is taking in response to that information.
10:12You know, I just want to endorse that and urge members of the public that we are in a state of emergency.
10:17There's a serious threat that continues to exist.
10:22You all have seen the efforts of the law enforcement agencies, and it's important for us to recognize that we, if there's an opportunity to play your role in terms of the providing of information or intelligence, to further progress dealing with this threat that is facing Trinidad and Tobago.
10:37And I want to urge you on behalf of the TTPS and to echo the call from the police commissioner with reference to this very serious matter that is facing all of us.
10:46Yes, indeed.
10:47And the police have been kept busy over the last couple of days.
10:51Yes.
10:52And we had a second kidnapping following the kidnapping of Ms. Karim, who was released on Monday night, or rather rescued.
11:01And there was a kidnapping of Ryan Singh and Kiran Latchman on July 21st on Monday afternoon in transit, Arima, working to drop off some merchandise and so on.
11:13And the good news is that these two young men were able to escape from a forested area in Valencia today after almost two days in captivity, based on the police release, of course, images here from our camera person, Kerry Patrick from TV6, showing the Valencia police station where apparently police had obtained information previously about some of the alleged kidnappers.
11:40And apparently word got to the associates who were guarding these men at the camp at San Pueblo Road in Valencia where they fled.
11:54And subsequently left the two victims and subsequently left the two victims and then the two victims then made their way out of that forested area.
12:02I think we have some.
12:02Ah, this is the images.
12:04This is the area where police would have gone back to.
12:08It's a gravel road, but it's in a forested area somewhere in the back there, San Pueblo Road, where the victims made their way out and was able to get safely to the Valencia police force.
12:21As you recall, a ransom demand was made yesterday to the relatives of these both men.
12:29And I imagine that there is relief tonight from both families.
12:35Of course, thanking the intelligence of the police would have obtained the two abductors or the two kidnappers who were in cahoots with the associates who was in the camp.
12:44Yes.
12:45And as a consequence of which, acting on that, they were able to apprehend these men.
12:51And then, of course, word got to these men through some other associate.
12:54Yes.
12:55That the two of their coup conspirators were held and they left.
13:00So a policeman is also on to secure those two men as well.
13:05Well, just to put this into perspective, Mark, and thank you very much for your detailed reporting.
13:10You know, I want to say to turn it out on Tobago, again, with this particular incident, which is a kidnapping, and even kidnapping for ransom.
13:18You know, I'm very happy to see that the persons, you know, were released.
13:23But importantly, Mark, this is a crime that is still very open investigative-wise.
13:28And I want to make this point again that I made last week in relation to where we were speaking about Sati Karim.
13:34And I made a very strong, with strong calls last week, Wednesday.
13:38And I want to echo this afternoon.
13:40That under the kidnapping act, persons who are aware of a kidnapping or persons who are aware of an intention to kidnap,
13:47under the law, has an obligation to provide that information to law enforcement.
13:51There's a reason why I'm repeating that.
13:53However, we have seen that partner conduct in the last couple of days.
13:58And I want to emphasize on members of the public, the citizenry, that if you are aware, you need to provide the information.
14:04Unless there's exceptional circumstances.
14:06And equally, law enforcement has a responsibility to investigate these matters properly.
14:12So that's under where the law is concerned.
14:14You know, Mark, I also want to take this opportunity to, you know, to reiterate, like I did last Wednesday.
14:20When we are speaking about the dignity of the human being, this issue about kidnapping and kidnapping for ransom,
14:26I'm asking the members of the public, those criminal elements desist from affecting persons' freedom of movement and liberty.
14:34The dignity of the human being is very, very important.
14:37And I ask you to place yourself.
14:39Would you like that for yourself or your family members?
14:41And I end it by indicating that if you are bent on breaching the criminal law with kidnapping and kidnapping for ransom,
14:50if law enforcement meets you, they're going to apply the full length and breadth of the law.
14:57So I want you to understand what that means.
14:59And to turn it out in Tobago, the citizenry,
15:01these developments are a perfect example, Mark, of the group of persons who are bent on creating public mayhem
15:12and putting citizens of Trinidad and Tobago in fear in relation to what we are seeing in some of these activities.
15:18But I'm happy to see the safe return of Saty Karim.
15:21And I'm also happy to see the release of these two individuals.
15:24And to the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago, exercise due diligence, be alert,
15:29because we are in a state of emergency and you all are fully aware of the communications coming from the criminal elements
15:37that are circulating very, very wide in the public.
15:41So, you know, can you exercise due diligence and act on suspicion.
15:45This is law enforcement, Mark, may I say, under the state of emergency.
15:49Call upon to act on suspicion for arrest and entry.
15:52I'm asking the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago that if you have to act on suspicion,
15:57act on suspicion and report whatever may be in your particular environment, in your surroundings.
16:03What may be suspicious, report it so it can be dealt with.
16:05And I want to deal with one further point, Mark.
16:08That issue in terms of the Eastern Division, where Saty Karim was being held,
16:14I think it's important to make a very, very silly and pointy this afternoon
16:18that in our communities, while you may have a place that perhaps persons may have migrated,
16:24left the premises in the care of other persons,
16:27it's important for us to be checking these premises frequently
16:31because we've seen a situation where an abandoned house or a house that, you know,
16:36not occupied was utilized for the purposes of keeping the kidnapped victim.
16:40And secondly, for the law enforcement agencies, my respectful submission to you all
16:45is to ensure that when we are patrolling, Mark, there must be active engagement
16:49so that we be able to identify whether there are any suspicious activity taking place
16:55in houses that may not be occupied or abandoned, as the case may be.
17:00So I think it was important to make those points this afternoon.
17:02Yes, certainly.
17:03All right, so you remember there was a prisoner that escaped yesterday by the name of Abraham Briggs
17:09from the Ruka Rehabilitation Facility, and the last sighting was that he was spotted
17:16somewhere in the Sangu Ghandi coal mine area junction.
17:21And apparently, earlier today, police received information along the vicinity of the Tamina-Gwaiko Road
17:29where they would have confronted Mr. Briggs, and we understand that he has been captured.
17:37And I know there are other things unfolding, and of course, when we do get further information
17:41about the status of Mr. Briggs, we'll bring it to you.
17:45Well, all I have to say at this time, as you indicated, Mark, is a developing story.
17:50I had a discussion with Senior Superintendent Papunet of the Eastern Division,
17:53and at that time, he was on his way to visit that scene.
17:56So when there is a firm position, you know, I'm sure that the Communication Department of the TDPSO,
18:03the Commissioner of Police, will make a statement on that matter.
18:06Yes.
18:06All right, so let's take a look at Day 6 of the SOE figures.
18:11Number of operations, 416 target prior to your offenders, 146 Hs conducted, 2,589.
18:23Traffic operations, 231 persons arrested, 150.
18:28Traffic offenses detected, 1,412.
18:31Firearms recovered, 10 pistols, 5 revolvers, 1 shotgun, and 2 rifles.
18:37Ammunition recovered, 84 rounds of 9mm.
18:4011 rounds of 12 gauge, 16 rounds of 0.38, 87 rounds of 5.56, 14 rounds of 0.38,
18:501 round of 0.40, 3,593.93 grams of marijuana, and 52.45 grams of cocaine.
19:00Well, you know, definitely, the statistics, you know, speak to themselves,
19:03and I want to acknowledge you woke up the Lois-Wortman agencies that, you know,
19:07are responsible for the statistics, Mark.
19:09But, you know, if I were to pick one particular area, just for the matter of the record,
19:14you see that 5.56 ammunition?
19:16I had it circled here.
19:17And you see, it's got great mind things alike.
19:19Yes.
19:19So, I think that when you're looking at the impact of public safety and security,
19:23we have seen, if I didn't mistake, I'm not, 84 rounds of 5.56 ammunition?
19:2787, I think, and 84 of the 9mm.
19:30Okay.
19:31If memory saves me right.
19:32So, that 5.56 is very, very important.
19:34And those who may be in the industry, or if you want to go on Google,
19:38you can Google 5.56 ammunition, and you'll see the impact that are 5.56 ammunition,
19:43you know, and the prejudice to public safety and security.
19:48But, again, I still do the work of the officers, and, you know,
19:50I urge you to continue to give your best to protect and defend Trinidad and Tobago.
19:56All right.
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24:44Welcome back to Beyond the Tape.
24:56I'm your host Mark Weston, joined today by Sergeant Zaheer Ali
24:59of the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service and Attorney at Law.
25:02And we were just commenting about the other Trinidad and Tobago police service release
25:08that came this morning about threatening voice notes prompting nighttime prison raid,
25:15mobile devices, and contraband seized.
25:18I mean, over the last 24 hours, there was a voice note encapsulating attacks,
25:24planned attacks on prison officers, police officers,
25:28and those in khaki, as the person put it,
25:31and instructions given by alleged gang leaders.
25:36Well, Mark, very troubling.
25:40And I know the police commissioner have spoken, you know, on that voice note
25:43and has brought it to the attention of all his officers
25:46and also urged all the officers, you know, to be on the alert and exercise due diligence.
25:51But, you know, I'll take this opportunity just to, you know,
25:55go into the state of emergency regulations just to make a point this afternoon.
25:59Under the state of emergency, Mark, under Regulation 11,
26:06it is quite clear that any oral statement or any statements in any other form,
26:13if it's statements that it's threatening or prejudicial to public safety and security,
26:20you can land yourself into attracting criminal liability.
26:23And I want to make that abundantly clear this afternoon.
26:25So this is not a situation under the SOE where you are pursuing fire, ammunition, and explosives.
26:30Your statements, if you are not careful, can attract criminal liability
26:34if it's threatening public safety and security.
26:37And I will not go into that particular voice note because it's subject to a criminal investigation
26:41and persons who may have information, you know, please provide it to law enforcement.
26:46But I think it's important from a preventative context to educate every single citizen
26:50to be very responsible on even how you express yourself.
26:55You have a freedom of expression.
26:58That's in the Constitution.
26:59But in a state of emergency, the law has fined itself to regulate oral statements
27:05and other statements, other publication, I should say,
27:08that may be prejudicial to public safety and security.
27:10So be very careful and responsible on how you are exercising that freedom of expression.
27:15So I thought it was important with the SOE to bring that to the attention of members of the public this afternoon.
27:20But, Mark, thank you for communicating that media release.
27:23You're most welcome.
27:24I think we have our first caller on the line.
27:26Caller, good evening.
27:27Good evening.
27:28Good evening, Mr. Mark Bassan and Sergeant Ali.
27:31I'm hoping that I am not on your watch list.
27:34More importantly, I want to commend the TTPS and particularly the COP, Mr. Rero.
27:49I am seeing something that I hear for and a lot of citizens.
27:55And the fact that you have identified that you are getting a lot of information and help from the public
28:05tells me we are buying in to what we have been seeing within the last week, couple of weeks.
28:14What I have seen, notice, and there are positive, you see those two kidnappings, the response, the rapid response,
28:24and the leadership, the gentleman that you have to take in front and is marshalling his troops.
28:33And that is what we expect.
28:35I'm reading the newspaper report where some of the neighbors, for the start here, Karen, kidnapped in,
28:45where they identified how professional and how quickly they responded to an incident on one of the neighbors' house.
28:55So this gives me a lot of hope that we, as a country, are seeing the light of the tunnel.
29:03And congratulations to you, Mr. Sergeant Ali, for your fine disposition on beyond the table
29:10and letting us understand where citizens are with respect to the SOE.
29:16Go and have a nice month.
29:19Well, thank you very much, caller, you know, for your kind feedback.
29:22And I'm certain that the Commissioner of Police is listening and, you know,
29:26will definitely, you know, will be satisfied to know that, you know, members of the public,
29:34they are feeling the pulse and the response of the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.
29:39And thank you very much for your kind comments as it relates to me as well.
29:43Yeah, but certainly, you know, the Commissioner has made no bones about this,
29:46saying that, you know, it's important that information driven by the public
29:53is also assisting them in their operations.
29:57And it's crucial that once we have that buy-in by citizens of Trinidad and Tobago,
30:02and that symbiotic relationship, I want to call it that, you know,
30:07you must know, people know in certain areas who's running what, who's doing what.
30:11And now you translate that by making a call and giving them tangible information
30:16and that they can act on that.
30:18It is important that we as citizens do that.
30:20Well, most certainly, Mark, and, you know, I'll take it into a philosophical context, you know,
30:25and I know that you love this individual I'm going to identify, Sir Robert Peel.
30:29Sir Robert Peel and the Peelian Principles.
30:31One of the principles is in relation to the police is the public and the public is the police.
30:36And that's a very strong statement.
30:37And if you look at the statements, you know, made by the Police Commission
30:41and even the statement from the citizen a short while ago,
30:44you realize that effective community engagement and partnership,
30:47building that bridge, is what the Peelian Principle promotes.
30:50So, what we have here is that the oath officers, which is law enforcement,
30:54the persons who have taken an oath to protect and serve,
30:58they are persons who are not on oath, which is the public,
31:00but they are police as well because they are seeing, they are hearing,
31:03and when they see and hear, what they do, they bring forward that intelligence
31:07so that the oath officers can act on the information.
31:10So, again, a perfect, perfect exhibition of one of the Peelian Principles.
31:14Yep.
31:15All right, we have another caller on the line.
31:17Caller, good evening.
31:19Good evening, caller.
31:21Good evening.
31:22Good evening to the panel.
31:23Good evening to you, ma'am.
31:25Officer, I am so happy that this person has been back home.
31:31But, you know what I sometimes think about when they kidnap somebody,
31:34especially a female, I think about the privacy of this person for so many days.
31:39What has happened?
31:39But I'm really, really thankful that they got her back, that they got her back safely.
31:44But I want them to get everybody.
31:45I don't want any one of them to disappear.
31:48That is my first one.
31:49The second point is, Officer Ali, if you're a detainee, you can't choose where they send you.
31:56When I say that, considering which area they move you from one area to another, is it a choice?
32:01I know you always kind of fear, you know, just make things easy.
32:04So you can't choose where you want to go.
32:07And anywhere you go, you're a detainee could get in touch with you.
32:09So I'm seeing something here about they didn't want to go here, blah, blah, blah, blah.
32:13I want to know if that is one of their rights.
32:15And my last point is, I hope, you know, looking at the commission of police,
32:22he seemed to be very serious, very, very serious.
32:25And what I like about him is sometimes according to the question they ask,
32:29he said, well, I am not going to answer that because X, Y, and Z,
32:32because people feel that they must ask you anything.
32:34So you must give out everything and then let the bandits say everything so that they will do what they want.
32:38So all the best to all.
32:40I want them to get some more guns and I want them to get some more people.
32:42But I hope after everything now, nobody has to go work and pay for these people that they help
32:49because I know that happened at one time.
32:50So I hope they get it right this time.
32:52Be safe, all of you.
32:54All right.
32:55Thanks a lot, Kola.
32:56And Sergeant Ali will respond after this short break.
32:59Stay with us.
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36:27Welcome back to Beyond the Tape.
36:35I'm your host, Mark Bazan.
36:36It's Legally Speaking Wednesdays,
36:38and with us today,
36:38Acting Sergeant Zaki Raleigh of the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service
36:42and Attorney at Law.
36:43I know you have to respond to the caller.
36:44Thank you very much, caller,
36:45for your three important points.
36:49I'll deal with the last one first.
36:52Mark, that point that the caller made in relation to the movement of persons,
37:01I would love to respond to it,
37:03but because it is now in the realm of proceedings
37:06that are engaging the court and even pre-action proceedings,
37:08I want to be very circumspect in reference to those matters.
37:13So, caller, I'm certain that, you know,
37:17that question in terms of the transferring,
37:19I'm sure if a court don't answer it,
37:21at least you'll see in the pre-action proceedings,
37:23you know, some of the position that the parties is or are taking.
37:26So, you know, please be guided by that.
37:29With reference to the issue of the kidnap victim, Mark,
37:34you know, I want to indicate that the rescue of the victim,
37:37you know, is one phase,
37:38but it's important for us to ensure that the investigations
37:41and true justice is served with reference
37:45to gathering the necessary evidence
37:48to pursue those, you know, who are alive
37:52to be able to, you know, face the course of Trinidad and Tobago.
37:54So, you know, it's important for members of the public
37:57to also recognize that the criminal justice system
37:59is, you know, still alive
38:02and it's important for us to participate.
38:05So those who may be required to give statements, Mark,
38:07those who may be required to give evidence,
38:09it's important for us to play our role.
38:11With reference to those individuals.
38:12And I'm certain that every single individual
38:15who were responsible for that kidnapping
38:17and other kidnappings,
38:19definitely the anti-kidnapping unit.
38:21And may I acknowledge you woke up the anti-kidnapping unit.
38:23You know, it would be remiss of me
38:24if I don't acknowledge the anti-kidnapping unit.
38:27Those officers who,
38:29the commitment, the dedication,
38:30you know, Mark, I wouldn't reveal,
38:32but there's a lot of commitment, dedication,
38:34and sacrifice over the last couple of days.
38:36And the support agencies
38:37that supported the anti-kidnapping unit.
38:39So I just want to recognize that.
38:40And I think she made mention of one other point,
38:46but, you know, it just slipped me for now.
38:47So, Kola, thank you very much.
38:49All right, your favorite segment.
38:50Yes.
38:51Sergeant Ali, voice of the people in San Juan.
38:53Let's go.
38:54What do you think about the crime situation?
39:23And now in Trinidad and Tobago?
39:25It's evolved from the last three, four, five years.
39:30But, to me, since the new government,
39:34I mean, it has been similar long,
39:36but I find it had plenty more accidents.
39:38I don't know why.
39:39Yeah.
39:39They have a little more accidents,
39:40and I find that that do happen.
39:43But the crime, I mean,
39:44they say this is the times of what we live in,
39:47but social media have a big part of play.
39:50But when they see what can happen in America,
39:52they're trying it here in movies.
39:53I don't know.
39:56And the love, the love,
39:57the love is what's going on.
39:59People looking out for one another and saying,
40:01like how we used to look out for one another,
40:03and the neighbor,
40:03I could talk to your child,
40:05and they're looking to come at you.
40:08And I never grew up like that.
40:10I find that it's,
40:11I just still look out for people,
40:13and people I don't even know.
40:14I say, all right, this is for him.
40:15I look into the pool.
40:15I will look to brace him,
40:17or tell him, I say,
40:18I can't do that here.
40:19You're screwed, you're from no curse.
40:20You're from searcher,
40:21and it's passed right here sometimes.
40:23And the person in the uniform,
40:24I say, well, primary school children?
40:26Nah.
40:27So sometimes I pull them,
40:28pull them aside and say,
40:28come and talk to them.
40:30Not to say, like,
40:31shunning them,
40:31hey, go come, you know,
40:32because children are different from our time.
40:35You have to talk to them in a different way
40:37and say,
40:37you wouldn't like your friend to talk to you like that,
40:40so go talk to others like that, you know?
40:41And I tell them, you know,
40:43just to calm them down a bit.
40:46Pull them aside,
40:46don't embarrass me,
40:47because children,
40:47they don't like embarrassment.
40:49These children,
40:50they don't like embarrassment.
40:51So you let them pull them aside
40:52and let them go.
40:54You worry about your personal safety
40:56and your families at times?
40:57Yeah, at times,
40:58most times.
41:00And we have to be locking up
41:01and locking up in every minute.
41:03But,
41:04Tangori community at our living
41:06is still a little bit normal
41:08from how I know it.
41:12Right?
41:12But,
41:13how it does now,
41:14it's really,
41:15like me,
41:16like me, I love you.
41:17Yeah,
41:17so you tend to change
41:19the way you do things now differently
41:20because of the crime situation?
41:22Yeah, a bit.
41:23A bit.
41:24In what way?
41:25How we talk to people,
41:26how we approach people,
41:28watch us around them.
41:31What are people doing?
41:33Outer time.
41:34In this time,
41:35yeah,
41:35there's more Italian people in.
41:37In your belief,
41:37we let them take it in a bad way.
41:40In your belief,
41:42what do you think
41:43we could do to reduce crime
41:44in this country?
41:46What we can do, boy,
41:48bring back the love.
41:49Show them old videos,
41:51old shows of how they,
41:53how his grandparents
41:54used to act with neighbors
41:55and something has to do
41:58because I find it real,
41:59real out on some days.
42:00I said,
42:01don't you think you don't
42:02so in school?
42:03Do you like school?
42:06It's peer pressure in school.
42:07If I do have this type of phone,
42:09you are nobody.
42:11I said, what?
42:12I said, no, no, no.
42:15I remember when I was
42:15now coming out of
42:17Japanese school,
42:17phones now come in and say,
42:18Oli, no?
42:19How privileged Oli is.
42:21We didn't have our phone.
42:23Just about nothing.
42:24Yeah.
42:25And they have
42:25real technology,
42:26tablet, laptop.
42:28Every other laptop
42:28used to make sure
42:29in that time,
42:31in the 90s.
42:32In the 90s,
42:33every other laptop
42:34used to make sure.
42:39Voice of the people.
42:41You had a laptop
42:42in the 90s?
42:43No, I didn't, Mark.
42:44You sure?
42:45Probably you should ask
42:46whether I'm in possession
42:47of a laptop
42:47even in 2025.
42:49But I'll be happy
42:50to say, yes,
42:51I'm in possession of one.
42:52You know,
42:52thanks to those
42:54who know themselves,
42:55you know?
42:55Yes.
42:56But Mark, again,
42:57you know,
42:58Voice of the people,
42:58I think it's very,
42:59very important,
43:00segment.
43:00And you know,
43:01every time I look
43:02at Voice of the people
43:03and you're asking
43:04the question about
43:05the impact of crime,
43:06you're seeing most times
43:07the crime impacts
43:10the fundamental rights
43:13of a citizen.
43:14And just by way
43:15of example,
43:16again,
43:16in this particular
43:17Voice of the People,
43:18you're seeing freedom
43:20of movement.
43:20You know,
43:20you have to,
43:21you know,
43:22you are limited
43:23in terms of the enjoyment
43:24of your property.
43:25So again,
43:25we all are seeing
43:26the impact that crime
43:27and criminality,
43:28you know,
43:28have on an individual
43:29and on a society.
43:30So the peasants,
43:32you know,
43:32status quo is important
43:33for us,
43:34you know,
43:34to hold hands together
43:35to be able to deal
43:37with this serious threat,
43:38deal with crime
43:39and criminality
43:39so that we all
43:40can enjoy that section
43:41of our rights
43:41to the best of our ability.
43:42You know,
43:42that right to freedom
43:43of movement,
43:44you know,
43:44association,
43:46right to education,
43:47you know,
43:47right to liberty.
43:49And we spoke about
43:50the dignity
43:51of the human being.
43:52And,
43:53you know,
43:53I got back the point,
43:55you know,
43:55that,
43:55you know,
43:56eluded me a while ago
43:57with the caller.
43:57The caller spoke about
43:58the length of time
43:59that the kidnapped victim
44:00was in the hands
44:01of our kidnappers.
44:02And,
44:02you know,
44:03that goes smack
44:03into dignity,
44:04the rights of a human being.
44:06And,
44:06you know,
44:07Mark,
44:07those are very sacred rights.
44:08When you're speaking
44:09about dignity,
44:10beginning with life
44:11and all the other rights
44:12that flows with it,
44:14you know,
44:14it's important.
44:15So the dignity
44:15of the human being
44:16is something
44:17that we must continue
44:18to respect
44:18as very sacred.
44:21And hence why
44:21where we are looking
44:23at the issue
44:23of kidnapping
44:24and kidnapping for ransom,
44:26it is a very,
44:27very serious offense
44:28under the law.
44:29You speak about
44:29a lot of rights,
44:30but we have a right
44:31to this break.
44:32Okay.
44:33All right?
44:33We'll be back.
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47:53Welcome back to Beyond the Tape.
48:04I'm your host,
48:04Mark Moussan,
48:05joined today by
48:06Sergeant Zahir Ali
48:07of the Trinidad and
48:08Tobago Police Service
48:08and Attorney at Law.
48:11You know,
48:11we're always trying to update,
48:13remind persons,
48:14you know,
48:14when they have certain questions
48:16or queries.
48:18And of course,
48:18you know,
48:18this ongoing issue
48:20of the FULs.
48:21And we just want to
48:23let everyone know
48:24if you want
48:25or you have questions.
48:26Well,
48:27there are some questions
48:28that people have been asking
48:29and this is one of the questions
48:30that they have asked.
48:32What happens if someone's license
48:33was previously approved
48:34but not issued due to a change
48:37in a commission of police?
48:39And then the response is,
48:41updated investigations
48:42will be conducted
48:43to ensure the commission of police
48:45has the most current information
48:48before making a decision
48:49on the grant of the license.
48:51I know you would
48:52want to shed some light on that.
48:55Well,
48:55you know,
48:55Mark,
48:56just looking at this question,
48:58what happens if someone's license
48:59was previously approved
49:00but not issued
49:01due to a change
49:01in the commission of police?
49:02If a license is issued,
49:04it's important for the decision maker
49:06in making a decision.
49:07Either he revokes that license
49:08or places that license
49:10on hold
49:11for any further investigation
49:12that that decision maker
49:14may want to embark on.
49:15So I think that will be precise
49:17for that section nine.
49:19But bearing in mind,
49:20you know,
49:20I just want to remind
49:21in the present firearm construct,
49:24illegal framework,
49:27there's no right
49:29to a firearm use this license.
49:31It's a discretion that resides
49:33with the police commissioner
49:33and it's a discretion
49:35that he will exercise.
49:36So I want you to understand
49:38that when you're applying,
49:39there's no right.
49:41And I want to repeat that.
49:42Somehow we misrepresent
49:43the position sometimes
49:44that when we apply
49:45that we expect to get
49:46a firearm user license.
49:48It's a discretion
49:48that has to be exercised
49:50with many different considerations.
49:52We also have another question
49:54that is frequently asked
49:55and it is,
49:58is there an option
49:59to track the status
50:00of an FUL application online?
50:03Currently,
50:04there's no online system
50:05in place to track
50:06the progress of firearm's users
50:07at license applications.
50:09Applicants may visit
50:10the firearm's permit unit
50:11for updates.
50:13Additionally,
50:13a dedicated help desk
50:14is being established
50:16and further information
50:17will be provided
50:18upon its implementation.
50:21Well, I think
50:22that's an accurate response
50:23at this time
50:23in terms of looking
50:24at an online system
50:25and I'm sure
50:26that the commissioner
50:27and the executive
50:27will be looking at
50:28efficiency and effectiveness
50:30to be able to,
50:32you know,
50:32treat to those applications.
50:33So, you know,
50:33I hope that comments stream
50:34as quick as possible.
50:35And Mark,
50:35just to go back
50:36to my previous position
50:37with the previous question,
50:39that's for clarity
50:40for members of the public.
50:41You have a right
50:41to apply.
50:43Yeah.
50:43So, on a defy AMSAC,
50:44if you are fitting
50:46the legal requirement,
50:47you can apply.
50:48But you don't have
50:49a right to be an FUL.
50:51It's a discretion
50:52that resides
50:52with the commissioner.
50:53So, I just want to be
50:54very, very certain
50:55with, you know,
50:56with my response.
50:57All right.
50:58We have another caller
50:58on the line.
50:59Caller, good evening.
51:02Good evening, caller.
51:03Go ahead.
51:04We're hearing you.
51:04Good evening, gentlemen.
51:07This question is
51:08pretty legal-minded.
51:09Would you expect
51:11to be proposed
51:12on your wrong legislation,
51:15would there be a difference
51:16in terms of if the property
51:18is spent with a gate
51:20and all of that
51:20when the property
51:22is not spent
51:22and there's no gate
51:23of the source?
51:25Would there be a difference
51:26in terms of the impact
51:27to the legislation?
51:28All right.
51:32Caller's gone.
51:32Thanks, caller.
51:33Well, thank you very much,
51:34caller.
51:35And, you know,
51:36Mark, that Stanyagrong legislation,
51:37you know,
51:38it starts to take effect
51:40in the various constituencies.
51:41And, caller,
51:41thank you very much
51:42for your question.
51:43And very soon, Mark,
51:44I will be on another platform
51:45starting to engage
51:47the different perspectives
51:49in relation to Stanyagrong
51:50and hopefully,
51:51with your good self,
51:52you know,
51:52we can also spend
51:53some time on that.
51:54But, you know,
51:54just to answer the caller.
51:55You know, caller,
51:56while it's proposed
51:57legislation
51:58or it's, I should say,
52:00it's in a policy
52:01slash bill format
52:02as we speak,
52:03that question
52:06in relation to
52:06whether, in fact,
52:07the property should be fenced
52:08or whether you're speaking
52:10about the actual dwelling house.
52:12I think those are
52:12very significant
52:13matters that requires
52:15discussion
52:16so that you'll be certain
52:17with reference
52:18to whether it's
52:19within the physical structure
52:20of the dwelling house
52:21or whether it's
52:22if the property is fenced,
52:24whether it's in the,
52:25you know,
52:26the wider space.
52:27I think those are
52:27very critical areas
52:28with reference
52:29to the application
52:30of the Stanyagrong.
52:31But I have to,
52:32you know,
52:33look at that particular bill
52:34in more detail,
52:35you know,
52:35to be able to answer you.
52:37I shouldn't say
52:38only answer you,
52:39but probably to
52:40bring forward
52:42some suggestions
52:43depending on how
52:44the bill is structured
52:45at this time.
52:45But again,
52:46I understand where
52:47you are going
52:47in terms of
52:48looking at the,
52:50whether you're looking
52:51at the dwelling house
52:51or whether you're looking
52:52at the entirety
52:53of the particular property.
52:54So I think,
52:55excellent question.
52:55And I imagine
52:56to Sergeant Ali,
52:57that would also
52:58encompass,
53:00and you can guide me
53:01of course,
53:02where we have
53:02business owners
53:03on their premises
53:05with their licensed firearms
53:07and should God forbid
53:09somebody come
53:09onto their premises,
53:11that legislation
53:12will obviously
53:13not just cover
53:13persons at residential,
53:15but I believe
53:16business as well
53:17at some respect.
53:18Yes?
53:18Well, I think
53:18that's a beautiful,
53:19beautiful perspective
53:20as well, Mark.
53:21And I think that,
53:21you know,
53:22when you're looking
53:22at any case
53:23where a person
53:24may have,
53:25for example,
53:25shotgun to protect,
53:26you know,
53:27large areas of land
53:28in cases like,
53:29for example,
53:29if you're planting crops
53:30or you're worried
53:31animals and so forth.
53:31So, I think,
53:32you know,
53:33those things
53:33must be properly
53:34factored in
53:34if we are really
53:36speaking about
53:36this particular
53:37legislation.
53:37I think during
53:39the conversation,
53:40you know,
53:41perhaps,
53:41you know,
53:42with the decision makers
53:43or actually the legislators
53:43listening to those issues,
53:45you know,
53:45they can refine
53:46the law accordingly,
53:46but definitely something
53:48to take into consideration
53:48as well
53:49in terms of
53:50that particular construct.
53:52All right,
53:52we have another
53:52call on the line.
53:53Quickly,
53:54caller,
53:54good evening.
53:56Good evening,
53:57caller.
53:59Hello,
53:59good evening.
54:00Good evening,
54:01ma'am,
54:01you're live
54:01and be on the tape.
54:02Go ahead.
54:06Hi,
54:06caller.
54:06Hello,
54:06good evening.
54:07Good evening to you,
54:09ma'am.
54:09Good evening.
54:10Hello,
54:11good evening.
54:14I think we might
54:15have lost that caller.
54:17Okay.
54:18Caller,
54:18we apologize.
54:19Hopefully,
54:19you'll...
54:20Oh,
54:20caller,
54:21you're there.
54:21Go ahead.
54:22We're listening.
54:23Hi,
54:24good evening.
54:24I have a question
54:25about a COC.
54:27Yes,
54:31go ahead.
54:32Okay,
54:33so I'm calling
54:34on behalf
54:35of someone,
54:36right?
54:37This person
54:39has a charge,
54:41a DUI charge,
54:42right?
54:43But that happened
54:44in, like,
54:452017 or so.
54:46and they have
54:47another charge
54:48which happened
54:49probably about 10 years ago
54:51wasting police time,
54:53right?
54:53Now,
54:54recently,
54:55this person
54:56applied for a COC
54:58and those two charges
55:00still appearing
55:02to the back
55:03of the COC,
55:04right?
55:04so I was wondering
55:07if there's a time frame
55:08for these things
55:09to...
55:11if it will always
55:13appear there
55:14or if they
55:15could leave,
55:18you know?
55:21All right,
55:21caller,
55:21thanks.
55:23Yes,
55:23caller,
55:23go ahead.
55:24Caller,
55:25if you leave a number,
55:27the matter that you're
55:29speaking about
55:29may require
55:30some further probing
55:32and I also want
55:34to be very careful
55:35in terms of
55:36having an engagement
55:37with the criminal
55:38records office
55:39to see whether
55:40in fact there's
55:40a policy position,
55:42whether there's
55:42a change of policy
55:43as to what you're
55:44speaking about.
55:44So,
55:45please permit me
55:46to engage you
55:47after so that
55:48you can be
55:48properly advised
55:49in moving forward.
55:51All right,
55:51so...
55:53All right,
55:55so we have a
55:55caller,
55:56caller,
55:56quickly,
55:56good evening.
55:59Caller,
56:00good evening.
56:01Yes,
56:01good afternoon.
56:03Yes,
56:03yes,
56:03go ahead,
56:03quickly,
56:04sir,
56:04we have
56:04about a minute.
56:05Okay,
56:06right.
56:06So,
56:07what I wanted
56:07to find out
56:08really is
56:09if we are
56:10looking at
56:11possibly
56:12martial law
56:13because of
56:15the fact that
56:16we have not
56:17been touching
56:17as yet
56:18people who
56:19drive around
56:20and shoot
56:21with these
56:22machine guns
56:23and get away
56:23scotch-free.
56:24We are not
56:25going after them.
56:26We are not
56:27selling a group
56:28of police officers
56:29probably with
56:30small armoured
56:31vehicles
56:32for use
56:33of a helicopter,
56:34probably well-trained
56:36men with
56:36even with
56:37terrorist training
56:38to a few
56:39soldiers and
56:40policemen
56:40and let them
56:41go out here,
56:42follow the law
56:43and bring these
56:44people and arrest
56:45them,
56:45either bring them
56:46in body bars
56:47or handcuffs.
56:48All right,
56:51Sergeant Al,
56:51you have about
56:52one minute.
56:52Well,
56:53I think that's a
56:53very strong
56:54statement from
56:55Nicola in
56:56relation to
56:56the approach
56:57that he's
56:57suggesting.
56:59Very,
56:59very strong
57:00position.
57:01While we may
57:02be in a
57:02state of
57:02emergency and
57:03there is a
57:04serious threat
57:04facing Trinidad
57:05and Tobago,
57:07under the
57:07state of
57:07emergency,
57:09the powers
57:09regulations,
57:10it is very
57:12clear in
57:12terms of what
57:13the law
57:14enforcement
57:14agencies could
57:16do under
57:16those
57:17circumstances.
57:17But,
57:18you know,
57:18I understand
57:18that,
57:19you know,
57:20you all feel
57:20the pain,
57:21you all feel
57:21the threat
57:22that is facing
57:23you all and
57:23I want to
57:24show you all
57:25that law
57:25enforcement will
57:25do all that
57:26they're required
57:27to do under
57:27the current
57:30legal framework.
57:30But,
57:31Mark,
57:31as always,
57:32thank you very
57:32much for this
57:33afternoon.
57:33Thank you very
57:34much to all
57:34the callers for
57:36your response,
57:37for your
57:37contributions,
57:38for your
57:38suggestions.
57:39I want to
57:39thank you all
57:40very much.
57:40I think that
57:40is the
57:41measurement of
57:42this particular
57:43program and I
57:44want to urge
57:44you on behalf
57:45of the Trinidad
57:45and Tobago
57:46Police Service
57:46to continue
57:47to be
57:47responsible,
57:49patient and
57:50exercise due
57:50diligence at
57:51this time.
57:52All right,
57:52vigilance and
57:53precision as
57:54according to the
57:55commissioner.
57:56May I'm having
57:56rerun tonight
57:57at 11.30.
57:59Repeat tomorrow
57:59at 11 o'clock.
58:01The TV6 news is
58:02up next and we'll
58:03see you back here
58:04tomorrow at 6.
58:04Stay with us.
58:05Bye.
58:20Bye.
58:22Bye.
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