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03:12Welcome to Beyond the Tape. I'm your host, Mark Bassad.
03:14Of course, holding on for Whitney, who is, of course, going to be having all the fun this evening because the TKR is in town.
03:22And they're playing their first game here at the Queen's Park Oval.
03:25A big game against the Guyana Oval.
03:28Well, you know, it's the middle of the week, and of course, you know what it is.
03:30It's, legally speaking, Wednesdays.
03:33And I want to introduce, of course, our tenured lawyer.
03:37He's going to talk to you about the TKR.
03:39He's going to talk to you about the TKR.
03:41He's going to talk to you about the TKR.
03:43He's going to talk to you about the TKR.
03:45He's going to talk to you about the TKR.
03:47He's going to talk to you about the TKR.
03:49He's going to talk to you about the TKR.
03:51He's going to talk to you about the TKR.
03:53He's going to talk to you about the TKR.
03:55I want to introduce, of course, our tenured lawyer and corporal, Zahir Ali of the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.
04:02Welcome, sir. Welcome. It's a pleasure, again, having you and being here.
04:06Well, good evening to you, Mark.
04:08Again, let me also say welcome back to you as well.
04:12I know that you had some much-needed time, you know, to rest and reflect.
04:17And, you know, welcome back.
04:19Good evening to Trinidad and Tobago.
04:21All our citizens, all residents, and most importantly, with TKR game scheduled for today and tomorrow,
04:27I'm sure that we have a lot of persons who are visiting Trinidad and Tobago.
04:31Jackie, family on the tape, and, you know, other distinguished members of our society.
04:39Mark, let me begin this afternoon, you know, before we go into the more heavier topics.
04:44You know, we have seen a lot that is happening and engaging, you know, high public officials.
04:51But before we go there, you know, on a softer note, you know, I had the opportunity yesterday, Mark, to visit a medical institution, you know, with my mom.
05:00And, you know, just being there and, you know, seeing persons who are healing, you know, their health concerns, their challenges, you know,
05:08seeing, you know, some who are basically alone, you know, without family members, and then some who are lucky to have their family members around.
05:16I think that, you know, when I looked at it yesterday, it was a humbling moment.
05:20And I want to take this opportunity to all those who are healing, you know, whether you be in the form of old age or whether you are young and, you know, you are diagnosed with, you know, whatever illness.
05:31You know, I want to say this afternoon that, you know, just be patient and trust in your belief, trust in the Lord.
05:37And, you know, I want to, you know, urge you to do that.
05:41It is a very, very difficult time.
05:43And, you know, I just thought it was important to begin with that this afternoon.
05:46You know, there's a lot of us out there, Mark, would be touched directly or indirectly by persons who will be healing.
05:54So, you know, I thought it was important to indicate that this afternoon.
05:56But, again, it's an opportunity and a pleasure to share this platform with you.
06:01Indeed, I very self, it's thought.
06:04And I know, as you said, it's a very trying time for some people.
06:07And sometimes you have to stop and reflect on even our own health.
06:12You have to take it easy.
06:13Sometimes you need to slow down.
06:15So just bear all those things in mind.
06:17Everything in moderation, of course.
06:19And, you know, sometimes we tend to overdo it, whether it be work or play.
06:24You know, so these are things that you have to become.
06:27The center of all is your health.
06:29Yes.
06:30It's extremely important.
06:31So we want to advise everybody, you know, to take things in moderation.
06:34And in so doing, of course, transition into our conversation today.
06:42And, of course, one of the biggest stories over the last 24 hours, the robbery of Minister of Health, Terence DL Singh.
06:54Certainly, it first came onto social media a couple of minutes after the robbery took place at St. Joseph.
07:03At the bar here, Naya Bengi's bar in St. Joseph.
07:07Yesterday afternoon around 5 o'clock, I believe it was,
07:11Mr. DL Singh was sitting on a bench outside the bar along King Street
07:17when he was approached by two men, one armed with a firearm.
07:22The men allegedly pointed the firearm at the victim's head and announced a robbery.
07:27They relieved him of a gold bracelet before making the escape in a vehicle.
07:34And it's very traumatizing for any individual, whether it be a government minister,
07:40whether it be a common man on the street, a woman in a house,
07:44or somebody to point a firearm because your life flashes before you.
07:49And I want to believe, even talking to a couple of people overnight into this morning about this incident,
07:55I don't think these guys even knew who he was to me.
07:59And I don't want to, in any way, trivialize this incident.
08:04And it's a serious one.
08:06But, you know, the public will have their say when it comes to this.
08:11And we're certainly glad that there was nothing.
08:15He was unharmed.
08:16They took whatever they wanted to and they left.
08:19And I don't know what's your thoughts up to this juncture about this incident.
08:25Well, Mark, you're touching a very sensitive and definitely attracting public attention.
08:33But, again, it's a clear demonstration, a clear evidence that when we are speaking about crime and criminality,
08:40and we spoke about it on your last time on the program and, you know, with Whitney as well,
08:45that we are seeing that crime, there's no boundary.
08:51There's no designated area where crime takes place.
08:53And especially now where we are seeing that, we are seeing it in the context of the burglary and housebreaking,
08:59which we call the home invasion.
09:01We are seeing it on the streets where there's crimes of opportunities,
09:04apart from the mayhem in terms of the shootings and the murders.
09:08So we are seeing that crime in itself is not restricted to a particular area.
09:12And, you know, we are also seeing that in this case, and you said it a while ago,
09:15that crime, there's no definition of the victim where crime is concerned.
09:19We are seeing here that a member of parliament, you know, a government official, you know,
09:24going about his lawful business.
09:26And, again, crime has reached his footsteps.
09:32But when we say relieved of a bracelet, I also want to add relief of that peace and security at the time
09:40that that gun was allegedly pointed to the Honorable Minister.
09:43And peace and security, very, very sacred, you know, in our constitution.
09:47And, again, a salient call to the three institutions of the state and the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago
09:58to recognize that.
10:01What else do we want to remind us that there's a need for decisive action?
10:05And decisive action by the persons who are sitting in very, very important positions.
10:09I had the opportunity to look at the morning edition this morning with Marlon,
10:13and I saw Professor Ramesh Deo Saran very, very strong in his comments and his submissions
10:19in looking at, you know, building a better society.
10:21So, you know, I want to say to Mr. Dyalsing, you know, it's unfortunate.
10:27I am aware that the TDPS is exerting all efforts to ensure that there's a detection of this crime.
10:33And I also want to say to the members of the public that not only where Mr. Dyalsing is concerned,
10:38every single crime, especially those that are involved in terms of housebreaking,
10:42where persons I saw in the newspaper where one of the article mark, she actually saying,
10:46thank God that I was not hurt.
10:48That is the home invasion in Pinal.
10:50Yes, I remember.
10:51And then, you know, we are continuing to see, you know, a repeat of this particular criminal activity.
10:56So, you know, I'm calling again Urgent Trinidad and Tobago.
10:59Whatever information that we have, you know, find your path,
11:05and whether you use anonymous reporting or whether you know someone that you can trust,
11:09bring the information so that we can respond to this appropriately.
11:12But again, we are seeing that crime, no definition of a victim,
11:17and there's no boundary when we are speaking about criminal activity.
11:20I want you to stick up in that word you said earlier, decisive action.
11:23Yes.
11:24Let's listen to the clip following the robbery.
11:26Yes.
11:27That went viral, of course, with Minister Dyalsing making a call allegedly to a government official.
11:55Put a gun to my head and rob you of my bracelet.
11:59Just let me know we are crime.
12:04No, no, you don't have to say anything.
12:06I'm just letting you know.
12:13So, seems that he called, I think he said Minister at the beginning of the conversation.
12:19Subject, of course, speculation.
12:21I don't want to speculate which minister it might have been, but he seemed to be very,
12:26he was still, you know, I think he was still in the processing mode of what had happened to him.
12:32And, you know, we have now been told over the last couple of hours
12:37that they have held two suspects for questioning in relation to this alleged robbery that took place
12:44after they found the vehicle that was used, apparently, in the St. Paul Street area in Port of Spain here.
12:51Now, there's been a lot of discussion about Zahir, as you can imagine, over the last 24 hours following this.
13:00Swift action.
13:02Two are held.
13:04There was an incident a couple of years ago involving a minister's son that his cell phone was recovered quite quickly.
13:12And the public, of course, will have their say.
13:16Because he's a big boy, police acting, police moving swiftly, making pronouncements.
13:23We're going to deal with these perpetrators.
13:25We're going to be held.
13:27And some, if not a lot of the population, feel that kind of action does not trickle down to them as a common folk.
13:38And it's like a scale that is, you know, one side, you know?
13:44All the chips are stacked on one side, so it's just always the other.
13:48And I think that, what do we tell common folk?
13:52Because there are a lot of people that are very disenchanted.
13:55They're very afraid.
13:57They don't feel that the TGPS is their first course of action.
14:03Because sometimes, you know, there was an incident where a guy called the police involving a robbery at his home.
14:09And it took 11 hours before they showed up.
14:11Yes.
14:12So what do you tell the common folk that don't have a big boy connection?
14:18Or they're not known by the police or some big government official.
14:23What do we tell those people who have no connectivity, no strings to pull?
14:28Well, Mark, you are making a very strong statement in reference to the response.
14:35And I want to say at the outset that I always respect the perspectives and the expressions of members of the public if they feel that way.
14:44What I would want to say is that if you are hearing those expressions, it's important for the TGPS to do an immediate analysis
14:51to see whether, in fact, there's any supporting evidence to show that you are actually conducting yourself in a way that's alleged.
14:59But in this particular situation, what I would say is that I want to remind Trinidad and Tobago Police Service that as an independent organization,
15:07and when we look at, again, and I'm going back legally speaking, looking at the Constitution,
15:12in the Constitution, every citizen is required to have equal treatment from a public authority.
15:18And I want to repeat that.
15:20When we are speaking about an independent organization in the TGPS as a public authority, the Constitution, Section 4, clearly...
15:27It's not really equal, though, because I don't think that the citizens get the sense that it's equal.
15:31But you know what? Let's continue this session after this break. We'll be back.
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18:10All the Republic Bank CP election is live and exclusive on CCN TV6.
18:28Welcome back to Beyond the Tape.
18:29Yes, it's Legally Speaking Wednesdays and I'm here with Corporal Zahir Ali from the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.
18:35And we just want to conclude our discussion about this incident.
18:38Surrounding Minister of Health Terence de Ansing and Corporal Ali was making a point about equality of treatment for all.
18:46And of course, yes, we know it's written down there in the Constitution and it is something that is also enshrined in how police officers are supposed to treat each and every citizen.
18:56But is it really a question of equality of treatment
19:01when people see preferential treatment being handed out to certain individuals when it comes to being victims of crime?
19:08I'm just asking.
19:09Well, again, Mark, as I indicated before that, you know, citizens who are directly affected by crime will, you know, have their perspective in terms of whether they feel that they are being given equal treatment.
19:19But, you know, what I want to say to those citizens who believe or who may be forming that view.
19:23When crime impacts you, impacts persons that are close to you, I want you to also take the opportunity to exercise the avenues that are available to you.
19:30So, yes, you have an enshrined right for equal treatment.
19:33But let us look at the, for example, in terms of simplicity, you know, engaging the stations, engaging the commissioner, engaging the head of the division, the CID, to get updates on your crime.
19:45And more importantly, on a more formal step, when you have an authority like the Police Complaints Authority, and we saw David Wessel was in Queens Hall last night.
19:55You know, I want to urge members of the public that if you want to ensure equal treatment and ensure that your crime is getting the necessary focus,
20:02don't fret to engage the authorities at the PCA, which will be there in order to advocate for you.
20:08Even, I would go as far to say, even write the Director of Public Prosecutions, and when there are indictable offenses, so that he now can now engage the Commissioner of Police,
20:16or she as the case may be, to get some updates on these matters.
20:19So, yes, you may feel that way in terms of you're not getting equal treatment, but I want you to not to stop there and continue to put pressure, legal pressure, on the TTPS to ensure that you get the response that you require.
20:31Well said, well said.
20:32So, definitely, you know, those are some of the perspectives that Corporal Zahir Ali has been able to share with us.
20:38As a matter of fact, Mark, may I just say one thing?
20:40Sure.
20:42And, again, you know, I want to really acknowledge TV6 and the partnership with the TTPS, that on this particular platform, over the years, many persons have called this platform and have expressed concern.
20:53They have reported, you know, that inaction sometimes on the part of the police.
20:57And I must say that most of the time, and I can speak for myself, we try to now engage those persons to ensure that we are bringing relief to them.
21:05So, again, even programs like these are also important to ensure that institutions like the TTPS continues to uphold and respect that right to equality of treatment for every citizen of Trinidad and Tobago.
21:16Well, I'm sure when we get our callers on about this particular subject matter and the responses of police officers to crimes, we definitely would like to hear from you.
21:27So, don't forget to call us at 623-1711, extensions 1992, 1993, 1996, and 1997.
21:37So, now we're just going to head across to our headlines.
22:275 o'clock, hot sun, bright sun.
22:54Sitting outside Nyabindi Bar of the TTP Church with a constituent.
23:00Two fellows walk up to me, put a gun to their head, and rob me of my bracelet.
23:07Just letting you know we're crying about it.
23:10So, yeah, those are the headlines.
23:12And we're going to get right into it.
23:14We have a caller.
23:15Caller, good afternoon.
23:17I guess a good evening to the dynamic viewer.
23:20Good evening, sir.
23:23I want to make one comment this evening.
23:26With respect to the nature of crime in this country, I want to allocate blame to different departments that need to be able to understand what is needed to get us out of where we are.
23:41I would only assign 20% of the blame to the police.
23:47I would assign 10% to the judiciary.
23:52Another 10% to the prisons.
23:56And 60% to the college to which Mr. Zia-El-Singh belongs to, Electoral College.
24:06Because unless they do not put proper things in place, we are going to hate it.
24:12I would just note.
24:15Thanks a lot, caller.
24:20That's it?
24:22Mark, just to respond to the caller.
24:24Caller, thank you very much.
24:26The caller has basically taken us into the realm of our classification of responsibility, Mark, if I may say that.
24:32And 20% to the police, 10% to the judiciary, 10% to the prison, and 60% to the Electoral College.
24:38In my respectful view, what he has identified to us, exactly what we indicated at the beginning of this program, that when you are seeing what we are seeing, the three institutions of the state, if you look at these institutions that he has identified, they can easily be factored into the three institutions of the state.
24:54And, again, it's important for the three institutions of the state to continue to play their role.
25:02You know, I use the term sometimes, and I have taken a term from a, I had the opportunity to engage a judicial mind and other persons where you have a conspiracy for the common good.
25:11So, yes, we have heard about the separation of powers in the Constitution when you are interpreting the Constitution.
25:16But when we are seeing things like this happening respectfully, we must find a way to have that communication to ensure that the three institutions of the state is, in fact, upholding the Constitution and the rule of law.
25:28I would say that, well, unfortunately, we have to take a short break, but we'll be back.
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28:03See you there.
28:16Welcome back to Beyond the Tape.
28:17Of course, it's Legally Speaking Wednesdays and I'm joined by Corporal Zahir Ali from the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.
28:24And of course, we're going to be talking a little bit today about criminal liability.
28:30And I think there are a number of areas we can obviously delve into here.
28:35But I just want you to give a general overview and perhaps cite one or two examples of criminal liability to the public.
28:42Well, Mark, when we're speaking about criminal liability, I can just basically, you know, quickly take you to what we call, what we refer to as principal offenders.
28:49And, you know, persons who are accessory or what we call secondary parties.
28:53And in simplicity, you know, for example, if we have, let's say, for example, a case of murder.
28:58You may have the person who is pulling the trigger, who is committing the act of serious elements or what we call the physical act.
29:03And at that time, the intention to kill or the intention to cause grievous bodily harm.
29:06So that person pulls the trigger as the principal offender.
29:09And you may have someone who may probably be present with him who may be indicating and chaining him on.
29:14Come on, you know, you could do it. You could do it.
29:17You know, or you may have a situation where that weapon that that person is using to commit the murder may have been procured by someone else who know that they procured a weapon for the intention to kill someone.
29:27So the person who pulled the trigger, we have a principal offender and the person who may procure a weapon or who's on the scene and basically aiding and abetting by encouraging that person to commit the act will be reviewed as a secondary party or as we say, an accessory to the criminal offense.
29:46So basically, you know, in summary, principal and accessory and the example that I give will be able to distinguish principal from the secondary party.
29:53I have a question, though. I think sometimes when you look at the law, it's kind of sometimes a gray area.
30:01For example, there was an incident involving a murder of an individual a couple of years ago, maybe about two to three years ago.
30:09So basically, there were three men that were charged for murder.
30:13Yes.
30:14And one man was charged with disposing of a body.
30:17Yes.
30:18So in the act of the murder being committed and there are three assailants there.
30:24Yes.
30:25But they bring this body to our next man, who's also knowledgeable that this person was murdered.
30:32Yes.
30:33If you could clearly in terms of even if the person was there or came after the fact, just after on the scene, and they say we need you to help us dispose his body, we just killed this person.
30:44I see the man, that man was charged with disposing of a body while the other three were charged with murder.
30:50So I just wanted to gain clarity for my own self and of course for others there, how it works in terms of that particular incident.
31:00Well, to simply put, Mark, you already identify that someone who comes in subsequent to the commission of a crime and in this case murder,
31:09who may not have been there when, for example, when there was a conspiracy to kill, when the actual killing went on.
31:17That person may not, based on the evidence and the investigation, may not have shown that that person had the requisite mens re or understood the state of affairs.
31:26Is the accomplice still, that even though the person was murdered and he wasn't there and he came just after, that he's helping them to dispose a body, that he should also be charged with murder?
31:35No. You see, and hence why the law would have gone to create a specific offence for persons who may be assisting in the disposing of a deceased.
31:43Because the law, you know, it has to be fair. It has to be fair that someone who's not aware of a conspiracy to kill, who wasn't party, whether it be a principal or a secondary in terms of the actual killing.
31:54What if the accomplices or the murderers call this guy and say, hey, we did not kill X. We needed to come after and help you dispose a body.
32:04How do you then deal with that? Because before the act is committed, he has knowledge of the act, but he's not there present.
32:10That's an excellent perspective, if I may say that. That now you have brought in that prior to the killing, that the planning and the arrangements, this individual knew that there was an intention to kill.
32:25And even go as far to know who they were going to kill and the role and function of that person. So in that context, it brings that person into what I'm speaking about.
32:36That's correct. If he's not directly there. Beautiful. Beautiful. Right. Fair enough. And of course, I don't want to take away from the caller's time.
32:45Don't forget 6231711 extensions 1992, 1993, 1996 and 1997. Corporal Ali obviously wants to hear from you as well as myself.
32:57So please feel free to cut us at any time. Actually, we do. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Yes, I am. Go ahead. Good afternoon, officer. Good afternoon, ma'am.
33:09Officer, before I say anything about anything, I am telling you this evening, I want curry chicken and not chicken curry. All right. You read me? I'm taking curry chicken and not chicken curry.
33:24Yes. Yes. Yes. On this program, many times we keep saying you must not make yourself an easy target. And it seems to me it doesn't matter what category you belong in.
33:40You have to be very careful. You can't use your chain, you can't use a bracelet, whatever. We must not use our things because they're going to make us an easy target.
33:50That's my first point. My second point is, officer, I don't know if you remember, but I spoke before and I spoke about a time when what was said, spoke about the police officers and this person said that they must be charged when they do something wrong.
34:08And I said at that time, but what about persons being bailed? And I've seen today where that same person spoke about it. And what he said was judicial officers must use the balancing exercise and discretion to grant bail.
34:23It must not be approached in a proportionate manner, which is reflective of common sense. It doesn't reflect common sense. And it evaluates the risk, which relief could accuse many and impose things on society.
34:39Because they feel when they get bailed, they could come out and they could do what they want and they could not, they could not care. And my third point is, I am glad to see that two persons were held under the car sales scam. I hope to get more of them and I hope to get others who scam and money other persons for certain things. All of you be safe. And as I said before, officer, I've taken curry chicken and fellow chicken curry. Thank you very much. Bye.
35:07Okay, so thank you very much. Again, for your submissions. Unfortunately, I'll have to reserve my right to silence with the first issue with reference to the chicken curry or the curry chicken analysis. However, the other two points that you raised again, two salient points and mark that balancing act. And we're speaking in a judicial context and our previous scholars spoke about 10% attributed to the judiciary.
35:31I will also want to, you know, get into that conversation. And you know, very soon something will be happening with reference to looking at this issue of bail in a in a in a more focused way. However, it's important for me to, you know, put that spin in relation to advising the judiciary, if I may, to an exercise in your discretion, that right to liberty that is afforded to the accused must be balanced with the wider public interest.
35:55And I want to repeat that the right to liberty that is very sacred. There's a lot of judgment that spoke about the sacredness of our person's freedom of movement and liberty, and not to be deprived, except by due process, but equally important than the status quo that we are living in that public interest or that public safety and security must be balanced with it. And finally, the final point where she made in terms of acknowledging the work of the TTP as a response where persons are arrested, Mark, I will say, you know, very optimistic that it does work.
36:25It does not appear that you know, when you look at the, the raw information in relation to this crime, I am certain and optimistic that is not the first time that these two individuals and others committed crimes of this nature, and maybe of a more serious nature. And hence why it's important for us to move swiftly to be able to detect this crime, you may well find that the detection of this crime, and the arrests and charges of these individuals, perhaps it may just lead to the detection of other crimes that these persons may have been involved in.
36:55So when we look at it in its entirety, there's a greater public interest in ensuring that there's a detection of this crime, and you know, crimes that have been committed throughout in Trinidad and Tobago.
37:07And there's a very salient point that the caller raised. She's speaking about people that are, they can't wear their jewelry free here in Trinidad and Tobago. I have a friend, let's call him Mr. Agard. He has a lot of jewelry, but he doesn't wear any in Trinidad and Tobago. Rather when he travels, he will wear his chains and so on.
37:30And other friends like that because they don't feel comfortable, even if, and they're well respected businessmen and working and so on. And some people just like the allure of jewelry and they like to wear their little chain and so on. It might be one chain. One chain too many for them. And they feel more comfortable walking in New York or Toronto or London or any other part of the world rather than Trinidad and Tobago or even in some of the other Caribbean islands.
37:56Yes. Well, Mark, let me respond to that immediately. And this will bring me to a point where when we are speaking about a person's enjoyment of property, that's what you're speaking about. A person should be able to enjoy their property, especially when they're in a public spare.
38:10The issue there is that, and let's go back, and I'm just using the situation with Mr. Dialsing, just by way of reference, legally speaking. It's alleged that a piece of jewelry was taken. Could you imagine that there's someone somewhere who's waiting to receive that jewelry or maybe to enter into a transaction regarding that jewelry?
38:29Or I may even go as far to say maybe a commercial outlet is waiting to receive that piece of jewelry, knowing that it is stolen, to be able to convert it and that sort of thing. So it brings me to the perspective where when we are looking at the blue collar robbery, you can easily see that it is also matched with a possibility of white collar where you are money laundering.
38:48So something that is stolen, you are engaging in a transaction knowing that it is stolen, or you are receiving, or you are possessing, or you are disguising. So again, to signal to the institutions of the state and law enforcement, we cannot have a one-eye focus when we are dealing with crime and criminality.
39:03There must be a blue collar with a white collar in terms of the perspective, because if you do not solve the robbery, you can get someone in receipt if you are doing your work properly, or someone who may have been engaging in a transaction that land you into money laundering. So I want to caution members of the public, exercise your due diligence when you are engaging properties.
39:22Certainly, that's an interesting point you raise, but we'll get to that when we get back from this break, alright? Stay with us.
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42:12Welcome back to Beyond the Tape.
42:20Of course, it's Legally Speaking Wednesdays and I'm joined by Corporal Zahir Ali of the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.
42:27And Colas, I want to remind you, we would love to hear from you guys.
42:30623-1711 extensions 1992, 1993, 1996 and 1997.
42:39Corporal Ali, you raised a point in talking about this matter that pertains to jewelry.
42:46And I don't think there's any legal parameters, especially when it comes to pawn shops,
42:53because I could walk in there with a gold bracelet, gold chain, and say I want to pawn this today.
43:02There's no trail to say that I really own that, is there?
43:08Well, Mark, I wouldn't go as far to say that there's no regulatory framework,
43:14because if I look at the Precious Metals Act of Trinidad and Tobago,
43:18what we have found, and based on the intervention and the investigation I've directed,
43:24there are some entities, those entities, the precious metals, those jewelry stores,
43:29they have an obligation to keep records.
43:31So even if we are not going to the extent to say, okay, an identification of a piece of jewelry,
43:36at least your records should show when persons are engaging you for a transaction,
43:40be able to hand over jewelry, to receive our reward, get proper ID, and that sort of thing.
43:45It's important for the jewelry and those retail outlets to ensure that that precious metals act,
43:49that they are in compliance with it, because they are licensed premises,
43:53and as a licensed premises, they're expected to comply with certain conditions
43:57that are associated with a license.
43:59So, you know, while it's an area that can be reformed, and I want to agree with you,
44:04we have found that persons are delinquent, basically, in relation to the compliance with a license,
44:09like any other license in terms of, like, liquor license and, you know, other forms of license.
44:13So I want to agree with you that there's a need for reform, but there's some regulatory framework.
44:19It's for the proprietor to ensure that he or she or they are observing those protocols.
44:25Thanks a lot.
44:26But thank you for asking that.
44:27No problem.
44:28Mark, let me pose a question to you.
44:29One second.
44:30Before we get to that.
44:31Sure.
44:32Caller, good afternoon.
44:38Good afternoon.
44:42Good evening, sir.
45:03He has not been aware that we have been drugging and blooding for the last 15 years.
45:08That's the first point.
45:09The second point is, because you have to chastise the TTPS for the proliferation of gun violence
45:17and arms and ammunition and drugs and human trafficking and all that.
45:21We don't make guns here.
45:23We don't traffic people.
45:24We don't have domestic trafficking.
45:25We have intercontinental trafficking.
45:29The only institution charged with the responsibility of manning our maritime borders with authority
45:35is the Coast Guard.
45:38We continue to have 42 vessels that are not okay.
45:41Yet, still, they are not held accountable.
45:43The Coast Guard is not held accountable for any which way.
45:48But they continue to sit in press conferences and say to this country, we're trying a new strategy.
45:55What we're doing is we're doing it with a dollar and 50 cents.
45:59In addition to that, a former commissioner, one of the best commissioners in this country
46:05I've ever seen in recent times, have used the same men, the same TTPS, the same resources
46:12with the same amount of money to push back at criminals, to, as a matter of fact, to
46:19drive fear in the hearts of criminals.
46:22We now have a leader, a commissioner, that has failed to do so from the first day of
46:30her being in office.
46:32So I ask, is there an absence of strategic leadership and management?
46:37And my fourth point is, I remember we spoke briefly with respect to when accidents occur.
46:49And there are fatalities on the roadway that start to prevent public grief.
46:55That person that transported directly to the hospital and not be allowed to cover down
47:00in his white sheet.
47:02And people make videos and loved ones see persons out there, their loved ones covered
47:07in sheets for hours while they're moving.
47:09There might be some deaths somewhere.
47:11We're waiting for the death to come to say that this man has been...
47:15Death to come to say that he could pronounce this man dead.
47:18As opposed to take the victim, take the accident victim directly to the hospital and treat
47:23him as though he's injured.
47:25Death to prevent that public grief.
47:29And of course, having him posted on social media and the family finding was in that manner.
47:34I await your comment.
47:35Thanks.
47:36Well again, Mark.
47:37Kola, thank you very much.
47:39Mark, you heard the passion in that Kola's voice.
47:43Very passionate in terms of the issues that he have identified in terms of looking at
47:47our borders, looking at the strategic leadership of the TTPS.
47:51And that last point that he's making in relation to when fatal accidents.
47:56And a very healthy argument, a very healthy discussion in terms of waiting, persons are
48:02covered down, traffic congestion, or whether in fact persons should be taken to a medical
48:07institution in order to be pronounced whether one way or the other.
48:12There's pros and cons for that.
48:14But having raised the issue, I think that it is opportunity for us to shine some light
48:20in that area and see whether in fact we can develop the processes, the protocols governing
48:24that.
48:25But again, Kola, like always on the previous Kola's, thank you very much for your submission.
48:29Mark, I have one quick question for you.
48:31It's not often that I do this on this program, but I think someone of your caliber, definitely
48:37enjoying from our investigative journalism context.
48:41I am aware that the media have a role, but I want to hear from you.
48:43Do you think in this present status quo, we have heard from the institutions of the state,
48:48we have looked at the situation in Trinidad and Tobago.
48:50My simple question to you, what role can the media play, if any, with reference to the
48:54present status quo involving crime and criminality in Trinidad and Tobago.
48:59Well, it's an ongoing discussion, of course.
49:04And I think we play our part in highlighting crime when it is of a big magnitude on the
49:11front pages, right?
49:13Some people may not agree with that wholly and solely.
49:16I think one of the biggest factors that needs to be sewn up is a better relationship with
49:25the police service and the media to sensitize and educate one another.
49:31Because there are things that I would know that you wouldn't know, and vice versa.
49:35So how do we bridge that gap?
49:37Sharing of information is important.
49:40I'm not saying that you all would share sensitive information, but there are times where things
49:44will become relevant to us by people sharing that information, right?
49:50And this is why we have this whistleblower's protection bill, and there's talk that journalists
49:58need to be exempted from the provisions beyond that umbrella bill, so that we are protected
50:06when information is handed to us.
50:08But we must also be responsible in how we treat matters of crime, and not have an immediate
50:17reaction to immediately blood and gore cells.
50:21Yes, we know that on the front pages of newspapers, and it's unfortunate that at this particular
50:27time, we have so many violent crimes happening.
50:31I'm not just talking about homicides.
50:33I'm talking about home invasions.
50:35We've seen a proliferation of old people being attacked in their homes, or other people,
50:41middle-aged people, and so on, where they are targeting these people, neighborhoods
50:45across Trinidad and Tobago.
50:48So, we need also to be community-oriented, the media that is.
50:53You know, a colleague of mine was talking to a number of reporters a couple weeks ago,
50:59and he said to them, you need to know your community, so that we, the media, can also
51:05play an integral role in assisting, and educating, and making the public aware and cognizant
51:13of things happening in their community, that can also help save their life, and help them
51:19become more cognizant of things.
51:20So, I think it's a potpourri of things that is needed, and the media needs to be more
51:27responsible, and more robust in how it reports crime, and not just take everything that you
51:35see on social media and run with it.
51:39And I think we have to be extremely careful when it comes to social media reporting, and
51:44the information that is purportedly put out there can cause grief to victims of crime
51:50and their families, and so on.
51:52And we have a responsibility of mainstream media to be an objective, fair, and accurate,
52:02and truthful in how we report the news, especially, not just other news, but when it comes to
52:10the sensitive thing called crime.
52:13On that note, we're going to take a break, and we'll be back.
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