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03:26Good evening, Trinidad and Tobago, and welcome to Beyond the Tape.
03:29My name is Whitney Husbands.
03:31Now, I know today is Friday, and on a Wednesday, we speak legally.
03:37And because our attorney of law was not here on Wednesday,
03:42he'll be with us today, which I'm always happy to have him here.
03:45If we could have him every day, I will be pleased.
03:48So at this time, I'd like to welcome on a Friday, our attorney of law on Beyond the Tape,
03:53and also officer of the TTPS, Corporal Ali, with us.
03:57We welcome you, and how are you, sir?
03:59Well, thank you very much, Whitney.
04:01I see that you have clearly expressed to Trinidad and Tobago that you miss me on Wednesday.
04:06A little bit.
04:07And I see that you are speaking, may I say instructively to the TTPS,
04:12that your expectation I'll be here every day for the week.
04:16Let's see how that unfolds, but thanks for the confidence.
04:22Good evening to you.
04:23Good evening to Jackie, family on Beyond the Tape, citizens of Trinidad and Tobago,
04:28and all those who may be visiting or have visited Oshawa and are looking at the program.
04:33Again, let me say to Trinidad and Tobago, my unavailability on Wednesday was professional
04:41and with a mixture of some personal commitments that I had to take care of.
04:46Like always, I missed you and I missed your submissions and your engagements on this very important platform.
04:52Whitney, I know a lot is happening in Trinidad and Tobago.
04:55There's a lot of stories, a lot of headlines, and I want to begin this afternoon,
05:00before you aggressively engage me this afternoon, by just reminding Trinidad and Tobago,
05:07all of us as a matter of fact, wherever we may sit, whether in a parliamentary context,
05:14whether in a judicial context, whether in an executive context, or whether we are just mere citizens of Trinidad and Tobago,
05:20I want to urge you all, and in fact urge all of us, to enjoin what is good and forbid what is wrong.
05:27I'm saying that in a context where we have seen, where there have been reference to, again,
05:33evidence of young people being involved in very serious acts of criminality and youth delinquency.
05:40Why I'm saying enjoin what is good and forbid what is wrong,
05:43I think it's a very, very interesting statement that is very broad in nature.
05:47Everything that you can probably look at, you could apply that particular principle.
05:51So, if you have to, even as simple as making a contribution to a domestic situation,
05:56breed things that are healthy for that relationship.
05:59Or, if you have to now discipline a child, ensure that you are enjoining what is good,
06:04and you are forbidding what is wrong, so that we can start addressing,
06:08frontally, some of the issues we are facing in Trinidad and Tobago.
06:11It's always a pleasure to be here, and I hope that I can be of some assistance again this afternoon,
06:15for whatever question or issues, or whatever submissions members of the public may have to submit this afternoon.
06:21So, Corporal Ali, we have a lot to dissect this evening, because with the laws of Trinidad and Tobago,
06:27and persons seeing it where justice is not being served for them,
06:32where are we when it comes to that, so we will touch on that and more.
06:36Right now, let's take a look at what made today's headlines.
06:41Trinidad and Tobago
06:44The Laws of Trinidad and Tobago
06:47The Laws of Trinidad and Tobago
06:50The Laws of Trinidad and Tobago
06:53The Laws of Trinidad and Tobago
06:56The Laws of Trinidad and Tobago
06:59The Laws of Trinidad and Tobago
07:02The Laws of Trinidad and Tobago
07:05The Laws of Trinidad and Tobago
07:08The Laws of Trinidad and Tobago
07:11The Laws of Trinidad and Tobago
07:14The Laws of Trinidad and Tobago
07:17The Laws of Trinidad and Tobago
07:20The Laws of Trinidad and Tobago
07:23The Laws of Trinidad and Tobago
07:26The Laws of Trinidad and Tobago
07:29The Laws of Trinidad and Tobago
07:32So, we go straight into the topic of discussion still
07:37today. After a few hours, even a few hours, 2 days ago, and
07:42the commissioner, the police commissioner came out and made
07:45a statement. Now, police recovered items belonging to
07:49the robbery victims at the scene along with three
07:52firearms. The suspects were identified as Jovan Simon
07:58A sixteen-year-old female of Laramine, Nicholas Caesar,
08:03Selim John of Claxton Bay, Kevin John of Claxton Bay,
08:07Isaiah Oliver, twenty-one of Arima. Now, in this incident,
08:12four of the persons who lost their lives were under the age
08:16of twenty-five and the police commissioner was stating that
08:19this reveals a deeply troubling trend where young persons
08:23under the age of twenty-five are the primary subjects in
08:26many of our investigations into criminal activities. This
08:30requires us as a society to confront the issue with
08:35honesty, urgency, and a strong resolve. The important and
08:40crucial role of parents and and guardians cannot be
08:44understated as you play the primary role of guiding your
08:48youth towards positive and constructive paths. We need to
08:52actively engage with young people, support them, and help
08:55them to navigate through these turbulent times and steer them
08:59away from the appeal of criminal behavior. Now, this is a
09:04statement, a bit of what the police commissioner stated, and
09:08the concerns of what took place where six persons were killed
09:12and a minor at the age of sixteen, her life was taken,
09:15and now we are seeing that we are tying in in where the some
09:19of the victims of this killing, the families are seeking
09:23justice. Now, where are we with that? Because they stated here
09:29the relatives believed that the way in which they were killed,
09:33it was unnecessary based on the time stamps everyone is
09:37showing. So, the relatives revealed to the public, if
09:40you're not aware, of one of the men urged that given the
09:43police, I should reiterate on this or rephrase this. The
09:48relatives of one of the men argued that given the police
09:52stormed at the house in Raza Trace, Freeport, 5 hours after
09:57the bandits committed a home invasion in Freeport, they
10:01assured that the six they killed, even connected in the
10:04home invasion earlier that day, showed that the time in which
10:07they showed up was unnecessary for the killing to take place
10:11even though a crime was committed. But do they have a
10:14legal leg to stand on?
10:17Whitney, you have pointed a very sensitive question to me
10:23this afternoon and permit me to take time to respond to this.
10:26I do not want to just take an easy way and say that it's
10:28subject to an investigation because I think that because of
10:31the public interest and public importance of matters like
10:33these, I want to share a couple of protocols that exist with
10:39reference to matters like these. First, let me endorse the
10:42police commissioner's response with reference to a strong call
10:45for looking at the delinquent youths. We have spoken about
10:48that on the last occasion where we didn't go into the realm of
10:53parenting as the police commissioner would have
10:54identified. We went into the context of looking at sporting
10:57organizations and other bodies to get involved in relation to
11:00when nation youths are concerned. What I would like to say
11:04just to add to that though is that the criminologists have
11:07spoken many times with reference to why a person, and in this
11:11case, why youths believe or what may be causing them to get
11:14involved in crime. I think that's an important study. So you
11:17may be surprised to know that parenting may be one aspect of
11:21it, but there may be many other aspects including the criminal
11:24justice system where they believe that maybe they can get
11:27involved in crime and not pay the consequences of crime. So
11:30there could be numerous symptoms or causes, as one may say,
11:35with reference to persons getting involved in crime and
11:37most of those youths, but I endorse the call by the police
11:40commissioner. I want to indicate in terms of the family,
11:45and let me extend condolences to the family who have lost their
11:47loved ones in this particular instance. Now, Whitney, without
11:51commenting, I know that it is subject and inquiry. The police
11:54commissioner also indicated that there will be a full
11:56investigation with reference to the matter, but for members of
11:59the public who are listening with police shooting, I want us
12:02to appreciate that within the law and the constitution and
12:05within the statutory framework of Trinidad and Tobago, everyone
12:09is presumed innocent until proven guilty. So let me make
12:12that abundantly clear. Secondly, everyone has a right to life
12:15and due process. Coupled upon that, police officers and by
12:21extension every citizen under the criminal law are empowered
12:26to use such forces as reasonable in circumstances in the
12:29prevention of crime, in assisting or effecting an arrest, or
12:32if I may also want to trigger in where in a self-defense case
12:36where if your life, in this case a police officer's life was
12:39in immediate danger or their colleague, they can revert to
12:42reasonable force and reasonable force in some instance can also
12:45be equated to deadly force depending on what you are facing
12:48at the scene.
12:49Could you highlight the use of force?
12:51Well, I get into that shortly. So from a constitutional and
12:55statutory context, I've identified the constitution in terms of
12:58the rights, I've identified the criminal law which gives the
13:01police and citizens the opportunity to use such a force
13:04as reasonable in circumstances and then within the TTPS
13:07framework, you have what they call a use of force policy which
13:10is built to hinge on the criminal law that I spoke about.
13:13So if police officers go to a particular situation and that
13:16situation creates a risk or danger to them, and I'm speaking
13:22where their life is threatened, they're empowered under the law
13:25to use such force as reasonable which may be deadly force in
13:28order to defend themselves and other police officers who may
13:30be with them.
13:31Now in this situation here, may I say that the options that
13:35are available to this family is that we already see that the
13:39Police Complaints Authority, I've read in the open source that
13:43David West and the Complaints Authority have already engaged
13:46the matter for a full-fledged investigation.
13:48So if this family were looking for justice or they were looking
13:53for avenues or options, we already see that a statutory body
13:56already start looking in at this particular police shooting.
13:59Within the police framework, you also have in the departmental
14:02orders an assistant superintendent in the division who will be
14:06appointed to investigate the matter and submit a report in
14:09relation to the findings.
14:10So right there, you'll see that there's an internal within the
14:13TTPS and there's also a PC inquiry and in a PC inquiry,
14:18whatever is the findings will be submitted to the police
14:21commissioner and the director of public prosecutions if in fact
14:24they are seen criminality.
14:26So right there, the families when they are seeking justice,
14:30you're already seeing internal investigation and you're seeing
14:32a PCA.
14:33Now that doesn't stop the family from even instructing an
14:36attorneys to be able to be corresponding with the police
14:39commissioner and the PCA to be able to get updates in relation
14:42to what's happening with these investigations.
14:45Whether the PCA or the police commissioner will give them any
14:48detail of it, that's a matter that will be determined by the
14:50decision maker.
14:51But to get that level of support, that's some of the options
14:54that they have to be able to see whether in fact the shooting,
15:00whether in fact it was justified in its circumstances.
15:02But I want to be very clear to members of the public that because
15:05it is subject to inquiry, I cannot go further to ensure that
15:08I protect the integrity.
15:09But what I give you all is what is governed in the law and what
15:12options these persons may have already, what options may already
15:16been exercised to bring or to fully ventilate this particular
15:20matter in the best interest of all parties.
15:22We have to take a break.
15:23We'll be back.
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17:37And we are back.
17:38It is a special edition Legally Speaking Friday today.
17:43Now, you can give us a call at 623-1711, extension 1992,
17:471993, and 1997.
17:49Corporal Ali, we spoke about parenting at the beginning of the
17:53show and the importance of parents understanding our role and
17:57function.
17:58And I say our because I'm a parent.
17:59Yes.
18:00But where is the delinquency kicking in into parenting?
18:06Where does the law now come in to assist with those parents who
18:11are now delinquent and causing children to do things that they're
18:15not supposed to do?
18:16And we're seeing them now committing certain criminal acts.
18:20Well, Whitney, I see that you have taken Wednesday, Tuesday,
18:23to do some research, you know, to treat with me this afternoon.
18:27But I think another very important question in the present
18:32status quo.
18:34Now, again, I do not want to comment on the present matter where
18:39it was reported that maybe a person under age or minor was among the
18:44persons.
18:45No, I'm not.
18:46I'm not going to comment on it, but I want to just use that as an
18:49example where if, and this is for all parents and guardians,
18:53this may be a good time to do a check and see whether in fact your
18:57child, a person who's under the age of 18 is accompanying any
19:01criminal.
19:02And let me begin with that.
19:03So if you have any cause to believe that your child is in the
19:08company of any criminal and criminal in this context,
19:11mean someone who may, you know, may have been charged for a criminal
19:14offense, someone who is engaging in criminal activities,
19:17and you continue to allow your child to be in the company of this
19:20individual under the children's act,
19:22you are starting to put yourself in a position to start answering our
19:26question because the children's act and by extension,
19:30the international convention will get to what actions or laws that are
19:34geared towards the best interest of a child.
19:36So the law is actually pushing the parents and guardians to say,
19:39okay, do not expose that child to a criminal element because that
19:43child can easily be absorbed into the whole activities.
19:46And then who knows what may be the outcome.
19:48So that the first point I want to make this afternoon legally that
19:51under the children's up,
19:53if a parent who are legal guardian is aware that a child is in the
19:57company of a criminal, they can be contravening the children's act.
20:01So that the first point.
20:02Secondly, under the children's up,
20:04there's a requirement to exercise reasonable care and supervision.
20:09That's a very, very, very important principle,
20:12reasonable care and supervision.
20:14Now I know a lot of people might argue what is reasonable and reasonable
20:17may have to be factored in a particular state of affairs,
20:19but I want us to take the Genesis that there's an obligation on a
20:23parent and legal guardian for supervision.
20:26That's the important thing you need to be clear, right? Supervision.
20:30So a simple Whitney, could you imagine you and I are here?
20:33And you are asking, well, where's Whitney's daughter now?
20:36Where is a huge daughter now? And we can answer that.
20:40But we are on the platform, the public platform,
20:42talking to 1.3 million people and do not know where our children are
20:47or is at this or child is at this point in time.
20:50But we are speaking to members of the public in that context.
20:52You can be bothering no one failing to supervise because you do not
20:56even know whether your child is in the proper hands in the company of
20:59a criminal or being exposed to some form of harm.
21:02So it is going wrong. The context of neglect.
21:05If those duties are imposed in law and you are not fulfilling those duties.
21:08So where we are speaking about responsibility for parent and guardian,
21:12that is how I want to respond to that,
21:14especially in the current status quo, parents and guardians in summary,
21:18exercise supervision and care. And it may be a good time.
21:22Let me repeat to check and see whether your child is in the company of
21:26any criminal elements.
21:27Now, if a child makes a report on a parent,
21:30because in the way in which they are being treated,
21:33how does that report go?
21:35How does the TTPS deal with that situation to protect the child?
21:39Well, it will depend on the nature of the report.
21:41If the nature of the report is one where the parent or legal guardian is
21:44committing a criminal offense,
21:45the child protection unit and the children's authority will be engaged to see
21:48whether in fact that child should continue to remain within that status quo,
21:51whether that child should be removed to a place of safety.
21:54So the nature of the report is important because it may be a situation where
21:57the child may be not being given his or her basic needs.
22:02So that may be a different status quo.
22:04So it all depends on the nature of the report.
22:06But any child making a report,
22:08there's a duty upon the state to investigate those matters.
22:10And I may go as far to say any citizen of Trinidad and Tobago who is aware,
22:15and again, under the Children's Act,
22:16that a child is in need of care and protection,
22:19you need to move into action to be able to get the necessary care and protection
22:23for that child.
22:24But we have situations where we hear and also see where the lifestyle the
22:31parents brought a child into is one that the child sees as normal.
22:35Yes.
22:36So if you have a family member that is selling drugs,
22:39and that is their means of gathering money to provide a lifestyle,
22:44and I'm not speaking of a lifestyle of glamour and the best,
22:51but more so to carry them to school,
22:55make sure they have all the things that you said as a parent supposed to do,
22:58but the way in which they're obtaining the money is illegal.
23:02But the child is now seeing that as normal.
23:04Yes.
23:05And you see,
23:06that's when we are speaking about parenting and other social causes.
23:12We are looking at,
23:13this is a culture as well that we,
23:15and we must not run away with that.
23:17And the caller on the last occasion spoke about a culture when he was speaking
23:21about criminality,
23:22where we were looking at serious offenses,
23:24but persons are committing very minor offense that is on,
23:26that is sometimes overlooked.
23:28Yes.
23:29So again,
23:30it's a culture,
23:31but with me,
23:32it doesn't give the parent the right to be engaging in criminal activities
23:36and using the procedure of criminal activities for the upliftment of the
23:39child.
23:40And hence why I'm saying that an institution of the children's authority,
23:43a section of the child protection unit,
23:46the community police officers who are in,
23:49have that direct responsibility should be very vigilant in relation to
23:54identifying issues like these so that we don't have a child growing up in a,
23:58in a,
23:59in a,
24:00in a home or in a community that they are now basically satisfying their
24:04basic needs with proceeds from crime.
24:06And let us know,
24:07direct them to the appropriate areas.
24:08Maybe this will minister social development or maybe whatever grants may be
24:12available or even look at maybe the,
24:16the private sector to see whether in fact a child can be sponsored,
24:19whether a parent can be sponsored.
24:21So we require due diligence,
24:23but that's something that is sad that if a child is brought up in a home
24:27and the parents are involved in criminal activity as the only means to
24:30satisfy that child that we shouldn't condone that.
24:33And we should be looking for lawful means and provide a lawful opportunities
24:37for that parent to be able to provide for that child.
24:40We have a call on the line.
24:41Let's take that call.
24:42Hello.
24:43Good evening.
24:44Good evening.
24:45Are you hearing me with me?
24:46Yes.
24:47Yes.
24:48Good evening officer Ali.
24:49Good evening,
24:50ma'am.
24:51Yes.
24:52The first point,
24:53officer Ali,
24:54what is the rule as regards police officers entering courts with their firearms?
24:58The reason I'm asking that because I saw where there was some problem at one,
25:02you know,
25:04where they said everybody has to be scanned to go in.
25:08And the police officers,
25:09they're treated like kindergarten when,
25:12you know,
25:13this policy that they have concerning,
25:14they have to check them before they go in.
25:16What is the rule?
25:17And does that happen really to other areas like,
25:19oh,
25:20Spain,
25:21San Fernando?
25:22That's my first point.
25:23Looking at Tobago,
25:24we are told that murders are driven by stolen vehicles.
25:28What he said was,
25:30these vehicles are from,
25:32you know,
25:33car renters.
25:34And what has happened is that they have to change things,
25:38you know,
25:39they change things on the car and some of the,
25:42and how they move around.
25:44So what is the real rule?
25:46What car renter person is supposed to do when you're going to rent a car?
25:50My third point is,
25:52you see the,
25:53what you showed yesterday with the elderly man and when he went into the court?
25:58Yes,
26:00I know that those persons,
26:01and I went there,
26:02and I know a lot.
26:03I'm not going to say much what I know.
26:05I know a lot that takes place.
26:07But it was so sad,
26:08especially when you have the young,
26:11young boys,
26:12you know,
26:13young,
26:14young boys,
26:15and,
26:16you know,
26:17they have come with this,
26:18and they come with that,
26:19and they come with,
26:20and they're so bald-faced.
26:21They're making calls,
26:22and they're telling them,
26:23give me the key for the car.
26:24If you don't give me the key,
26:25as I own the key for the car,
26:26or taking the TV,
26:27because we have to carry something for the boss man.
26:29And only to realize,
26:31that they were given information concerning a particular house,
26:34where they said,
26:35persons have plenty of money,
26:36and they have gold,
26:38and they went into the wrong house,
26:40and they're really,
26:41really bald-faced.
26:42You stay so long,
26:43three o'clock in the morning,
26:44you want to wake them up,
26:45and you stay so long in the people's place.
26:47Something has to be done.
26:49And you see the people who got killed from doing something,
26:51I heard mothers talk about a child,
26:53and when she gave me the whole history about that child,
26:56and the child said,
26:57she's going to stay by somebody,
26:58or whatever.
26:59We have to be more careful in times like these.
27:01Have a blessed weekend,
27:03all of you,
27:04including Miss Jackie.
27:05Thank you very, very much.
27:06Thank you so much.
27:08You want to respond to one of them?
27:10Yeah, I'll respond quickly.
27:11Thank you, Kola,
27:12for three of your...
27:15You want to go from the bottom up?
27:17Yeah, I'll take it from the top.
27:18Okay.
27:19On this occasion.
27:20With reference to the issue involving the firearms,
27:24in the possession of police officers,
27:25and in the court domain,
27:27what I would say is that,
27:28I'm not privy to the entire facts of that particular matter,
27:31but from the little that I have,
27:33what I'll quickly do on this platform
27:35is advise both the judiciary and the TTPS
27:38to engage in some high-level discussions quickly.
27:40And the reason I'm saying that,
27:42I don't know whether, in fact,
27:43there's an established protocol within the judiciary
27:46and on what basis.
27:48I haven't gotten the opportunity to do that research,
27:50but if, in fact, there's an established protocol,
27:52issued by the judiciary,
27:54it'll be interesting to see exactly
27:57what will be the justification for police officers
28:00not being allowed to carry their firearms within the court.
28:03So that's the first thing.
28:04Secondly, from a TTPS context,
28:06it will also be important for the TTPS
28:08to justify why police officers should be armed
28:11when they are going in the court proceedings.
28:13And what I will put into the equation
28:14to assist both parties is that
28:16if one of the general duties and responsibilities
28:18of a police officer is to preserve the peace
28:22and order, including peace and order
28:24within the court system
28:26and within the precincts of the said court,
28:27I think that the police officers should be allowed
28:30to be able to execute their duty to the fullest
28:32because a court is an area
28:34where you have public involvement.
28:37You have a lot of participants in the process.
28:39Here we have a virtual setting now,
28:41but let us understand how a court process normally unfolds
28:45so that we want to ensure
28:46that that is also a place of safety.
28:48And remember, Whitney,
28:49that the police service vision
28:52is to ensure that every place in Trinidad and Tobago is safe.
28:56So is it within the court precincts and domain?
28:58Is that a place within Trinidad and Tobago?
29:00So my simple advice to the both parties this afternoon
29:04is let us be mature.
29:06Let us look at the bigger picture
29:07and perhaps let us look at the level of criminality
29:10that we are seeing in Trinidad and Tobago
29:12so that we can make good decisions
29:13to ensure that witnesses, the defense,
29:16the prosecution, and the public
29:18who are coming to observe those proceedings
29:20are well protected.
29:22We take a break. We'll be back.
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29:50and a wide range of other construction supplies
29:52at very competitive prices.
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29:59and wholesale division, Frederick Settlement Guarantee,
30:02or call us now at 678-0857.
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30:40SECU Credit Union.
30:42Supporting expectations.
30:43Caring for you.
30:58Join us on the number one station
31:00in Trinidad and Tobago for Showtime
31:02this Wednesday, 8.30 p.m. only on TV6.
31:12And we're back.
31:13You can give us a call at 623-1711,
31:16extension 1992, 1993, and 1997.
31:21Now, I'm going to touch on a TTPS media release here
31:25with a California man charged with fraud.
31:28A 53-year-old man was granted bail
31:31with surety in the sum of $80,000.
31:34He was charged with fraud.
31:36He was charged with fraud.
31:38He was charged with fraud.
31:40He was charged with fraud.
31:41He was charged with fraud.
31:42He was charged with fraud.
31:43He was charged with fraud.
31:44He was charged with fraud.
31:45He was charged with fraud.
31:46He was charged with fraud.
31:47He was charged with fraud.
31:48He was charged with fraud.
31:49He was charged with fraud.
31:50He was charged with fraud.
31:51He was charged with fraud.
31:52He was charged with fraud.
31:53He was charged with fraud.
31:54He was charged with fraud.
31:55He was charged with fraud.
31:56He was charged with fraud.
31:57He was charged with fraud.
31:58He was charged with fraud.
31:59He was charged with fraud.
32:00He was charged with fraud.
32:01He was charged with fraud.
32:02He was charged with fraud.
32:03He was charged with fraud.
32:04He was charged with fraud.
32:05He was charged with fraud.
32:06He was charged with fraud.
32:07He was charged with fraud.
32:08He was charged with fraud.
32:09He was charged with fraud.
32:10He was charged with fraud.
32:11He was charged with fraud.
32:12He was charged with fraud.
32:13He was charged with fraud.
32:14He was charged with fraud.
32:15He was charged with fraud.
32:16He was charged with fraud.
32:17He was charged with fraud.
32:18He was charged with fraud.
32:19He was charged with fraud.
32:20He was charged with fraud.
32:21He was charged with fraud.
32:22He was charged with fraud.
32:23He was charged with fraud.
32:24He was charged with fraud.
32:25He was charged with fraud.
32:26He was charged with fraud.
32:27He was charged with fraud.
32:28He was charged with fraud.
32:29He was charged with fraud.
32:30He was charged with fraud.
32:31He was charged with fraud.
32:32He was charged with fraud.
32:33He was charged with fraud.
32:34He was charged with fraud.
32:35He was charged with fraud.
32:36He was charged with fraud.
32:37He was charged with fraud.
32:38He was charged with fraud.
32:39He was charged with fraud.
32:40He was charged with fraud.
32:41He was charged with fraud.
32:42He was charged with fraud.
32:43He was charged with fraud.
32:44He was charged with fraud.
32:45He was charged with fraud.
32:46He was charged with fraud.
32:47He was charged with fraud.
32:48He was charged with fraud.
32:49He was charged with fraud.
32:50He was charged with fraud.
32:51He was charged with fraud.
32:52He was charged with fraud.
32:53He was charged with fraud.
32:54He was charged with fraud.
32:55He was charged with fraud.
32:56He was charged with fraud.
32:57He was charged with fraud.
32:58He was charged with fraud.
32:59He was charged with fraud.
33:00He was charged with fraud.
33:01He was charged with fraud.
33:02He was charged with fraud.
33:03He was charged with fraud.
33:04He was charged with fraud.
33:05He was charged with fraud.
33:06He was charged with fraud.
33:07He was charged with fraud.
33:08He was charged with fraud.
33:09He was charged with fraud.
33:10He was charged with fraud.
33:11He was charged with fraud.
33:12He was charged with fraud.
33:13He was charged with fraud.
33:14He was charged with fraud.
33:15He was charged with fraud.
33:16He was charged with fraud.
33:17He was charged with fraud.
33:18He was charged with fraud.
33:19He was charged with fraud.
33:20He was charged with fraud.
33:21He was charged with fraud.
33:22He was charged with fraud.
33:23He was charged with fraud.
33:24He was charged with fraud.
33:25He was charged with fraud.
33:26He was charged with fraud.
33:27He was charged with fraud.
33:28He was charged with fraud.
33:29He was charged with fraud.
33:30He was charged with fraud.
33:31He was charged with fraud.
33:32He was charged with fraud.
33:33He was charged with fraud.
33:34He was charged with fraud.
33:35He was charged with fraud.
33:36He was charged with fraud.
33:37He was charged with fraud.
33:38He was charged with fraud.
33:39He was charged with fraud.
33:40He was charged with fraud.
33:41He was charged with fraud.
33:42He was charged with fraud.
33:43He was charged with fraud.
33:44He was charged with fraud.
33:45He was charged with fraud.
33:46He was charged with fraud.
33:47He was charged with fraud.
33:48He was charged with fraud.
33:49He was charged with fraud.
33:50He was charged with fraud.
33:51He was charged with fraud.
33:52He was charged with fraud.
33:53He was charged with fraud.
33:54He was charged with fraud.
33:55He was charged with fraud.
33:56He was charged with fraud.
33:57He was charged with fraud.
33:58He was charged with fraud.
33:59He was charged with fraud.
34:00He was charged with fraud.
34:01He was charged with fraud.
34:02He was charged with fraud.
34:03He was charged with fraud.
34:04He was charged with fraud.
34:05He was charged with fraud.
34:06He was charged with fraud.
34:07He was charged with fraud.
34:08He was charged with fraud.
34:09He was charged with fraud.
34:10He was charged with fraud.
34:11He was charged with fraud.
34:12He was charged with fraud.
34:13He was charged with fraud.
34:14He was charged with fraud.
34:15He was charged with fraud.
34:16He was charged with fraud.
34:17He was charged with fraud.
34:18He was charged with fraud.
34:19He was charged with fraud.
34:20He was charged with fraud.
34:21He was charged with fraud.
34:22He was charged with fraud.
34:23He was charged with fraud.
34:24He was charged with fraud.
34:25He was charged with fraud.
34:26He was charged with fraud.
34:27He was charged with fraud.
34:28He was charged with fraud.
34:29He was charged with fraud.
34:30He was charged with fraud.
34:31He was charged with fraud.
34:32He was charged with fraud.
34:33He was charged with fraud.
34:34He was charged with fraud.
34:35He was charged with fraud.
34:36He was charged with fraud.
34:37He was charged with fraud.
34:38He was charged with fraud.
34:39He was charged with fraud.
34:40He was charged with fraud.
34:41He was charged with fraud.
34:42He was charged with fraud.
34:43He was charged with fraud.
34:44He was charged with fraud.
34:45He was charged with fraud.
34:46He was charged with fraud.
34:47He was charged with fraud.
34:48He was charged with fraud.
34:49He was charged with fraud.
34:50He was charged with fraud.
34:51He was charged with fraud.
34:52He was charged with fraud.
34:53He was charged with fraud.
34:54He was charged with fraud.
34:55He was charged with fraud.
34:56He was charged with fraud.
34:57He was charged with fraud.
34:58He was charged with fraud.
34:59He was charged with fraud.
35:00He was charged with fraud.
35:01He was charged with fraud.
35:02He was charged with fraud.
35:03He was charged with fraud.
35:04He was charged with fraud.
35:05He was charged with fraud.
35:06He was charged with fraud.
35:07He was charged with fraud.
35:08He was charged with fraud.
35:09He was charged with fraud.
35:10He was charged with fraud.
35:11He was charged with fraud.
35:12He was charged with fraud.
35:13He was charged with fraud.
35:14He was charged with fraud.
35:15He was charged with fraud.
35:16He was charged with fraud.
35:17He was charged with fraud.
35:18He was charged with fraud.
35:19He was charged with fraud.
35:20He was charged with fraud.
35:21He was charged with fraud.
35:22He was charged with fraud.
35:23He was charged with fraud.
35:24He was charged with fraud.
35:25He was charged with fraud.
35:26He was charged with fraud.
35:27He was charged with fraud.
35:28He was charged with fraud.
35:29He was charged with fraud.
35:30He was charged with fraud.
35:31He was charged with fraud.
35:32He was charged with fraud.
35:33He was charged with fraud.
35:34He was charged with fraud.
35:35He was charged with fraud.
35:36He was charged with fraud.
35:37He was charged with fraud.
35:38He was charged with fraud.
35:39He was charged with fraud.
35:40He was charged with fraud.
35:41He was charged with fraud.
35:42He was charged with fraud.
35:43He was charged with fraud.
35:44He was charged with fraud.
35:45He was charged with fraud.
35:46He was charged with fraud.
35:47He was charged with fraud.
35:48He was charged with fraud.
35:49He was charged with fraud.
35:50He was charged with fraud.
35:51He was charged with fraud.
35:52He was charged with fraud.
35:53He was charged with fraud.
35:54He was charged with fraud.
35:55He was charged with fraud.
35:56He was charged with fraud.
35:57He was charged with fraud.
35:58He was charged with fraud.
35:59He was charged with fraud.
36:00He was charged with fraud.
36:01He was charged with fraud.
36:02He was charged with fraud.
36:03He was charged with fraud.
36:04He was charged with fraud.
36:05He was charged with fraud.
36:06He was charged with fraud.
36:07He was charged with fraud.
36:08He was charged with fraud.
36:09He was charged with fraud.
36:11He was charged with fraud.
36:12He was charged with fraud.
36:13He was charged with fraud.
36:14He was charged with fraud.
36:15He was charged with fraud.
36:16He was charged with fraud.
36:17He was charged with fraud.
36:18He was charged with fraud.
36:19He was charged with fraud.
36:20He was charged with fraud.
36:21He was charged with fraud.
36:22He was charged with fraud.
36:23He was charged with fraud.
36:24He was charged with fraud.
36:25He was charged with fraud.
36:26He was charged with fraud.
36:27He was charged with fraud.
36:28He was charged with fraud.
36:29He was charged with fraud.
36:30He was charged with fraud.
36:31He was charged with fraud.
36:32He was charged with fraud.
36:33He was charged with fraud.
36:34He was charged with fraud.
36:35He was charged with fraud.
36:36He was charged with fraud.
36:37He was charged with fraud.
36:38He was charged with fraud.
36:39He was charged with fraud.
36:40He was charged with fraud.
36:41He was charged with fraud.
36:42He was charged with fraud.
36:43He was charged with fraud.
36:44He was charged with fraud.
36:45He was charged with fraud.
36:46He was charged with fraud.
36:47He was charged with fraud.
36:48He was charged with fraud.
36:49He was charged with fraud.
36:50He was charged with fraud.
36:51He was charged with fraud.
36:52He was charged with fraud.
36:53He was charged with fraud.
36:54He was charged with fraud.
36:55He was charged with fraud.
36:56He was charged with fraud.
36:57He was charged with fraud.
36:58He was charged with fraud.
36:59He was charged with fraud.
37:00He was charged with fraud.
37:01He was charged with fraud.
37:02He was charged with fraud.
37:03He was charged with fraud.
37:04He was charged with fraud.
37:05Hello, good evening.
37:06Good evening.
37:07Good evening, sir.
37:08Yes, to you and your guest, if I may say that.
37:09Corporal, Corporal Alley.
37:10Corporal Alley, yes.
37:11Good evening, sir.
37:12Look, I've been listening to the program, and in your opening statement, or just after
37:13the program started, you made a statement that you said was ascribed to the commission
37:14of police, where she seemed to be indicating that she's realized the young age of three
37:15and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young
37:16age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old
37:17is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half
37:18years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three
37:19and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young
37:34age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is
37:46not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half
37:52years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three
37:56and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young
37:57age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is
37:58not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half
37:59years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three
38:00and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young
38:01age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is
38:02not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half
38:03years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three
38:24and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young
38:32age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old
38:33is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half
38:34years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three
38:35and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young
38:36age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is
38:37not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half
38:38years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three
38:39and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young
38:40age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is
38:41not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half
39:03years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three
39:09and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young
39:13age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is
39:17not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half
39:21years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three
39:25and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young
39:27age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is
39:28not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half
39:29years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three
39:30and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young
39:32age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is
39:33not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half
39:34years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three
39:35and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young
39:36age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is
39:37not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half
39:38years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three
39:39and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young
39:40age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a
39:41young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years
39:52old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and
40:03a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of
40:09three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a
40:16young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years
40:25old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and
40:32a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of
40:38three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a
40:43young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years
40:48old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and
40:53a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of
40:58three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a
41:03young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years
41:07old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and
41:11a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of
41:16three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a
41:21young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years
41:26old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and
41:31a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of
41:36three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a
41:41young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years
41:46old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and
41:51a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of
41:56three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a
42:01young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years
42:05old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and
42:10a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of
42:15three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a
42:20young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years
42:25old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and
42:30a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of
42:34three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a
42:37young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years
42:39old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and
42:41a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of
42:43three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a
42:45young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years
42:46old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and
42:47a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of
42:48three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a
42:49young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years
43:11old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and
43:12a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of
43:13three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a
43:38young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years
44:07old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and
44:08a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of
44:09three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a
44:10young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years
44:11old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and
44:12a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of
44:13three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a
44:14young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years
44:15old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and
44:16a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of
44:26three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a
44:35young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years
44:41old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and
44:48a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of
44:55three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a
45:00young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years
45:05old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and
45:10a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of
45:15three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a
45:19young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years
45:23old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and
45:27a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of
45:31three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a
45:35young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years
45:39old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and
45:43a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of
45:47three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a
45:51young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years
45:55old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and
45:59a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of
46:03three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a
46:06young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years
46:08old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and
46:10a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of
46:12three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a
46:14young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years
46:16old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and
46:18a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of
46:20three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a
46:22young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years
46:24old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a
46:26half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of
46:48three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a
47:16young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years
47:42old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and
48:10a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of
48:38three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of
49:06three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of
49:32three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years old is not a young age of three and a half years
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