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02:44Good evening Trinidad and Tobago and welcome to Beyond the Tape.
02:47Thank God it's Friday. It's Friday the 12th of July
02:50and I know many of us are anticipating the weekend
02:53because we'll be able to maybe relax
02:55and others are somewhat dreading it
02:57because there are persons who will be working this weekend also.
03:01There's no rest for some of us
03:03and maybe it could just be those days
03:05where you might have to put in that extra work.
03:08Now even though today is Friday, Wednesday,
03:11our legal mind was not here.
03:14So we decided, you know what,
03:16we need to bring him in today even though it's Friday.
03:20So you have the opportunity to talk to us more
03:23about some of the issues you're faced with
03:25and when could someone really take legal action
03:28or could we, if we feel or felt like something was done
03:32in a way that we didn't like
03:34or it was in a manner in which you're seeking justice,
03:38could we really seek that legal action when need be?
03:43We'll find out more on that and more discussions
03:45of some of the things that are trending
03:47throughout Trinidad and Tobago today.
03:49So on a Friday, we welcome Corporal Ali, our attorney-at-law
03:53and of course our legal mind here on Beyond the Tape.
03:56Good evening and how are you?
03:57We missed you Wednesday.
03:59Well, good evening to you, Whitney,
04:01and just listening to your introduction,
04:04if I recall correctly,
04:06you all secured my presence here this afternoon.
04:09I don't know whether I threw a judicial instrument
04:13or the instruction, but again, it's a pleasure to be here
04:16and my apologies to you, Whitney,
04:18and the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago
04:20who may have been anticipating that engagement on Wednesday.
04:23Hopefully, you'll be able to have some engagement this afternoon,
04:26but again, pleasant evening to the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago,
04:30whether you're out of the jurisdiction or within the jurisdiction
04:32and also may I extend it to persons
04:35who may be visiting from different countries.
04:37Whitney, this week has been a mixed week
04:40in terms of being both professional and personal
04:42and I just want to again thank the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago
04:46for the way that they received me, the way that they engaged me.
04:49Just coming back from Tobago last night, yesterday evening.
04:52I'm jealous.
04:53I'm just walking through the airport.
04:54I am jealous.
04:55Yeah, I'm just walking through the airport
04:56and persons came up and they gave positive feedback
05:00and I want to acknowledge them
05:02and all those who have been giving feedback
05:04and I must say as well, positive and critical feedback
05:08that is geared towards moving Trinidad and Tobago forward.
05:11So I want to thank you all very much for that.
05:13But this afternoon, Whitney, you indicated quite rightly
05:16that it's Friday and we are going into the weekend
05:18and I want to basically ask a question
05:23and a question that is directed to all of us.
05:26Whether you're in the public sector, whether you're in the private sector,
05:28whether you're in media, whether you're a parent home,
05:32I want to ask a question and we can ponder on it over the weekend.
05:37The question surrounds the issue of legitimacy.
05:42Let us ask ourselves in whatever sphere that we find ourselves,
05:46whether in fact we are continuing to enjoy and maintain that legitimacy
05:50or whether in fact there's a need to do introspection
05:55to determine whether in fact there's a need to make some adjustments.
05:59The reason I'm saying that, Whitney,
06:01sometimes we hold offices,
06:03sometimes we have certain role and functions to perform
06:06and I'm going as what may appear to be as simple as maybe parenting,
06:10that if you are not fulfilling your role as a parent,
06:13are you still enjoying that legitimacy over that child?
06:16So it's a very, very serious word
06:19and it was so serious that having some general knowledge
06:22about that word legitimacy during the course of my studies,
06:26it still forced me to go back and do a research,
06:29to just look at the research in terms of that word legitimacy.
06:32And as I said, I would like us to ponder on that over the weekend
06:35and maybe during the weekend see whether in fact, wherever we may be,
06:38as I said, a general question to all of Trinidad and Tobago,
06:41whether we continue to enjoy and maintain that legitimacy
06:44or whether in fact there's a need to do an introspection
06:49to determine whether in fact there's a need to make immediate adjustments
06:52to ensure that we enjoy and continue to maintain that legitimacy
06:56in terms of the offices that we hold or the role and function that we perform.
06:59I thought it was very important to ask that question,
07:02especially what you are seeing happening all around us
07:05in every sphere of our society.
07:08And that is also extended to persons who may not hold a high office or position
07:14but persons in society.
07:16Something as basic as being a taxi driver
07:19all the way to the person at the top of maybe running the country
07:25which will be the Prime Minister, President.
07:28Legitimacy is very important on both sides.
07:31It's not just because I hold office and I wear a suit or a nice uniform
07:36means that is where it falls.
07:39And I'm happy that you said that, Whitney,
07:41in terms of bringing it down to as simple as that can be.
07:45You having a national ID card
07:51that substantiates that you are a citizen of Trinidad and Tobago.
07:55A legitimate document.
07:57A legitimate document.
07:58But more importantly, your legitimacy as a citizen
08:01will be grounded in your observance of the Constitution and the rules
08:07and the laws of Trinidad and Tobago.
08:09So hence why I'm saying to all of us,
08:11and I didn't indicate public sector as opposed to private sector.
08:15Across the board.
08:16That's correct.
08:17For all of us, determine whether in fact legitimacy,
08:21whatever sphere that you find yourself,
08:23whether in fact you are fulfilling the doctrine
08:26or that principle of legitimacy entails.
08:29Let's take a look at what made the headlines today.
08:56♪♪
09:06♪♪
09:16♪♪
09:26♪♪
09:34And we are back.
09:35A lot to discuss before we dive straight into the weekend.
09:39I always have to say condolences to persons who have lost loved ones.
09:44We don't know the circumstances of some,
09:46but it's still someone's life that we're seeing,
09:49and we're seeing more of the crime and the murders and the gangs,
09:53and we will dive in more into that legally.
09:55Now, yesterday we spoke about the TTPS getting involved
10:00in something that some persons may see as not a big deal
10:04and why were the officers involved.
10:07Now, to bring it quickly to the forefront for persons
10:10who may not know what we are speaking about,
10:12the issue of the two young men in Tobago
10:14with wearing the wrong hairstyle, which is the cornrows,
10:18that the school does not permit within their rules and regulations.
10:23Now, this happened during their graduation
10:26where the two young men were forced, from what they're saying,
10:30allegedly out of the graduation,
10:32and the police was there to really keep the peace.
10:35So they weren't there to make a scene and be aggressive,
10:38like how some people may think that may be transpired.
10:41It was not.
10:42But a report was made by the parents,
10:45and they're stating that they want to take legal action
10:47because what they're saying is that it was discrimination
10:52against the young men,
10:54and what was really the real reason behind them removing them,
10:57even though they stated they don't want them wearing the cornrows,
11:01plaits, and young ladies wearing revealing dresses and outfits.
11:05Now, mind you, a consent form from what they're stating
11:08was given out to the students for their parents
11:11to know the rules and what they can and cannot do.
11:15So if you signed it, and if you didn't,
11:19where does that leave the parents?
11:21Do they have a legal leg to stand on?
11:24Well, I don't want to answer it as to whether, in fact,
11:26they have a legal leg or not, Mitni.
11:28You have provided a lot of information for me.
11:30I'm aware that attorneys have spoken on the matter.
11:35I'm not aware whether, in fact, the aggrieved parties
11:37may have instructed the attorneys to proceed.
11:40But generally speaking, just because it's legally speaking,
11:44and just to ensure that we give some direction and some perspective,
11:49let me deal with the police issues first.
11:52I want to clearly indicate that what may appear to be a civil matter,
11:58and I can make a comparison, typical example,
12:01what may appear to be a domestic issue
12:04in relation to my domestic violence context.
12:07So whether it's civil or domestic, if it's one that gets so heated
12:11that it now has the potential to amount to a breach of the peace,
12:16the police have a jurisdiction to ensure that they preserve the peace.
12:19So I want to make that abundantly clear
12:21that sometimes you see police called into a situation,
12:24and police must also be careful that they do not intervene
12:27what may be a civil status quo or domestic situation.
12:33They must clearly understand where their roles and functions
12:37and their powers lie in terms of minimum where they are called in
12:41to see whether, in fact, there's a breach of the peace
12:44or a possible breach of the peace to ensure that that do not happen.
12:47So that's the first thing I want to identify with the police involvement.
12:50Secondly, from the school context.
12:53Now, I haven't read to see whether, in fact, it's a public sector
12:56or whether it's a private sector.
12:58Government assisted, but I won't call the name of the school.
13:01But the school body is still governed by the Ministry of Education.
13:05Right, so sometimes there may be instances where the public sector,
13:11the ministry still provides some funding and some direction.
13:14But generally speaking, whether it's public or private,
13:16it's important for us to have an understanding as to, well,
13:20what the code of ethics or the rules as it relates to the school is concerned
13:24and whether, in fact, you use something about a consent form
13:27to see whether, in fact, there was a prior agreement or arrangement
13:32as to what should be the dress code
13:34in relation to attending that particular party.
13:37One may also ask, okay, the graduation.
13:39Can it be justified that it is, in fact, a school function
13:44or it's now captured under the school's arrangements?
13:48So there are a lot of questions that one will ask,
13:50but it will all come down to determine exactly what was the arrangement,
13:54what was the agreement, and whether there is a cause of action,
13:57whether it be a cause of action in the context of if it's a public sector issue,
14:01whether it may be a constitutional motion for you use a word discrimination
14:05or inequality of treatment or what have you,
14:09or whether it's now in a civil realm, a private context,
14:13where there may be, what, maybe a breach of contract
14:15in terms of what the school could do or cannot do and vice versa,
14:20what the students could do and what they cannot do.
14:22So I'll leave it there, but again, it's a very sensitive matter,
14:24and it's unfortunate that where something should be civil,
14:28that we do not find the appropriate response.
14:32Yes.
14:33And you've seen police have to be called into a situation
14:35to ensure that there's a preservation of the peace.
14:38Just to update the public that the school stated
14:40that an investigation will be taking place.
14:42No comments were made with that,
14:44but I'm sure we'll be able to find out more and update with that,
14:48and you can check that with the Daily Express.
14:50Now, five, three held, which I'm believing is an error here,
14:57but three held on highway minutes after the Bay robbery.
15:01Now, three suspects were arrested within minutes of a report of robbery,
15:07which occurred in the DB district on Wednesday, the 10th of July, 2024.
15:12Reports indicate that two victims were in the district
15:15when they were accosted by two male suspects who announced a robbery.
15:20The victims were relieved of a quantity of cash and jewelry
15:23before the suspects made their escape
15:25in a waiting Nissan Almera motor vehicle.
15:28The Almera was subsequently intercepted along the northern bound lane
15:32of the Sir Solomon Ho Choi Highway in the vicinity of Brentwood Gardens.
15:37Three suspects, ages 19 to 41, of San Juan and Mova,
15:42are arrested in connection with the incident.
15:45And quick action by the officers.
15:47Clearly, they were able to apprehend the suspects.
15:50Whitney, before you go forward with that,
15:51I think it's important for me to identify the children out on Tobago again,
15:54and I guess it will be obvious to them in some instances.
15:57But again, kudos to the officers in reference to the response
16:01in relation to a quick arrest,
16:04and I hope that they are properly advised
16:06to ensure that there's a real prospect for conviction
16:10on the evidence in this matter.
16:11But again, if you look at, there's some things that we need to pay attention to.
16:16Just repeat in relation to the suspects.
16:19Where are they from?
16:21San Juan and Mova.
16:23San Juan and Mova.
16:24Where the robbery took place?
16:26It took place in D.B., Central.
16:29So the first point I want to make is that,
16:31and some time ago, earlier this week, I spoke about a migration.
16:35It was in the context of Tobago.
16:37But in this context, you are seeing persons who address,
16:40as in the Northeastern Division, San Juan and Mova.
16:44They are reaching in the Southern Division, in D.B.,
16:47to commit acts of criminal offenses
16:49in terms of robbery and maybe other offenses.
16:51So that's the first point.
16:52The second point, you are seeing persons moving
16:54from one division to another division.
16:56And in terms of where they were arrested, Brittany?
16:59They were arrested on Susselman Ochoa Highway
17:02in the vicinity of Brentwood Gardens.
17:04Right, so exactly.
17:05And you're seeing where, to add support,
17:08that after the robbery,
17:10they were looking to make good their escape
17:12by coming back down, possibly to go home.
17:15Correct.
17:16Back to their San Juan, Mova, which they believe is a safe haven.
17:18But you may have well encountered that they may have had
17:21an intermediary, maybe, somewhere in the Central Division,
17:25to cool off until such time
17:27where they can now return to their safe haven.
17:29So I just wanted to make the point, Trinidad and Tobago,
17:31that when we sometimes believe
17:33that we are in a community that is safe,
17:37you might be surprised to know
17:39that persons who are committing very serious acts,
17:42and we are seeing burglaries, break-ins,
17:44which we are describing as home invasions,
17:46that resulted in persons losing their life,
17:49persons are moving throughout Trinidad and Tobago
17:52to commit these criminal offenses.
17:54So it's important for Trinidad and Tobago,
17:56the law-abiding citizens,
17:58to continue to collaborate
18:00and provide the necessary intelligence
18:03to be able to respond to the situation.
18:05And lastly, Whitney,
18:06when we are speaking of robbery, burglary, break-in,
18:10which we describe as home invasion,
18:12I want to signal something again which is extremely important.
18:16The persons who may be the recipient of these proceeds from crime,
18:20or persons who may be engaging in property
18:23knowing that it was taken from a break-in, a house break-in,
18:26or a burglary, or a robbery,
18:29let us take away that market.
18:32Persons who are conducting themselves in this manner,
18:35by taking valuable items, property, and so forth,
18:39persons are benefiting, they are engaging in transactions.
18:41So I want to ask the persons
18:43who are engaging in receiving stolen property,
18:46who are engaging in transactions
18:48where they know that property is stolen,
18:50please desist.
18:51That's also a criminal offense.
18:53So if you are caught, you can be facing the courts.
18:55But I'm asking you to remove that market,
18:58to assist in ensuring that there is no...
19:01We target this issue of burglary, house breaking, robbery,
19:07in a holistic manner.
19:09Hence why I'm identifying the persons
19:11who may be in receipt of those stolen items.
19:13Now, earlier today, or just right before even starting the show,
19:16about two hours ago,
19:17there was a shooting in the Gonzales area,
19:20and reports are still coming in.
19:22Someone was killed,
19:24but again, the investigation continues,
19:26and we will keep you updated
19:28with more of what transpired here.
19:31Condolences to the family on that.
19:33When we come back, we take your calls,
19:35we take that break, and we'll be back.
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20:33♪♪♪
20:37Love is not ownership.
20:39Love is not control.
20:40And love is in no way connected to violence.
20:43Put yourself for one second
20:44in the shoes of your victim.
20:46Ask yourself how you would feel
20:48being abused by someone bigger and stronger,
20:51someone you love and trust.
20:53You can do better.
20:54You can be better.
20:56♪♪♪
21:01♪♪♪
21:08♪♪♪
21:14And we are back.
21:15You have the opportunity to give us a call
21:17at 623-1711, extension 1992, 1993, and 1997.
21:23Corporal Ali is here with us this Friday,
21:26and he's our legal mind, our attorney at law.
21:29And I started this show by stating
21:33what right or what action someone could take
21:37if they felt like they were done wrong
21:39by an individual or individuals
21:42where, let's say, assault,
21:44because we speak of crime.
21:46And I don't think in Trinidad and Tobago
21:48we take assault seriously
21:49because it's almost like a slap on your wrist.
21:52If someone wants to take legal action,
21:54the officers, I'm just saying,
21:55not saying this is what the case is now,
21:57didn't take a proper report,
21:59they're not feeling like justice is being served,
22:02what could that individual or individuals do
22:04if they want justice?
22:06Well, we can look at it in two contexts, Whitney.
22:08The victim of an assault, simple assault,
22:10and I'm looking at assault here where not even contact.
22:13Just my mere words that cause you to apprehend
22:18the unlawful violence on your person immediate.
22:22And you go and you make a report,
22:24you are actually heading into a criminal jurisdiction,
22:26hoping that the police now will investigate the matter,
22:28see whether, in fact, there's sufficient evidence
22:30to proceed against the person for an assault against you.
22:33And on the civil realm, if you feel strong,
22:36and especially in a circumstance
22:37where there may have been contact,
22:39and let's say you sustained injury,
22:41I'm just saying just to make the point,
22:43and you may lose two days' work and that sort of thing.
22:46It also has a civil realm in terms of where the law of thought,
22:49in terms of giving your attorney some instructions,
22:52or even going to a justice of the peace
22:55to be able to initiate an action
22:57before the summary court's jurisdiction
22:59to bring that person to be able to answer that charge.
23:02So we have both criminal and civil,
23:04and I'm happy that you asked that as well.
23:06We seem not to...
23:07And this is for law enforcement as well.
23:09We seem not to be paying attention
23:11to the offence of harassment
23:13under the Offences Against the Persons Act.
23:16Why is this defined as harassment?
23:18For persons who want to go and look and read that particular section.
23:21That's a section that calls for persons
23:24that may be causing a person, a victim,
23:26to be aggrieved, to be placed in a state of worry,
23:30and it might just be a situation
23:32where you are coming at the person's workplace
23:35on two or more occasions,
23:38or you may be standing up in front of the person's property
23:41and looking at the person and putting the person in a state of bother.
23:44So I'm using a simple example
23:46where harassment is concerned,
23:48and we tend not to utilize that particular law,
23:50but that law also gives us the opportunity
23:52to go before the court to obtain things like protection orders,
23:55and it can also lead to criminal offence as well.
23:58So to answer your question in short,
24:00you have both the criminal jurisdiction
24:03and you have the civil jurisdiction,
24:05and I would go as far to say
24:07that the police officers who are not responding
24:09to criminal offences,
24:10let me give you another course of action.
24:12Go to the PC.
24:14Lodge that report for an inaction or neglect
24:17on the part of the police officers.
24:18I give you three options.
24:19We have a call on the line.
24:20Let's take that call.
24:21Hello. Good evening.
24:24Hello.
24:25Hi. You're live. Go ahead, sir.
24:27Okay. Good afternoon.
24:29Good afternoon, sir.
24:30According to the connection that the police send in the 21st century,
24:36I guess the officers sign on to a code of conduct.
24:40Is that true?
24:41Say that again, sir.
24:43Do you sign on each officer?
24:47Do they sign to a code of conduct?
24:49A code of conduct.
24:51Go ahead, I'll respond to you after.
24:54Okay.
24:55What I was thinking is that
25:00does anybody keep a tab in the police office?
25:05Asking officers whether they are involved
25:08in any intimate relationship with a fellow officer.
25:12Now, I know there are husbands and wives working in police.
25:15That is okay.
25:17And the issue I'm looking at,
25:18that is not for people losing their jobs or anything like that.
25:24But there are certain sensitive investigations.
25:28When it's being conducted
25:30and people are involved in an intimate relationship,
25:32you'll know what happens.
25:34So I think it's high time that police officers
25:36should declare and sign every year
25:40to a code of conduct regarding intimacy amongst police officers
25:45so that the hierarchy will know.
25:49Thank you very much.
25:51Kolar, let me thank you for your submission this afternoon.
25:58And I want to assure you that your submission is well received.
26:01I think that it's a unique issue.
26:04But it's an issue that I'm hoping that the executive is listening.
26:07If they are not, I am going to, as usual, bring it to their attention.
26:10I think that's a very, very significant point
26:12in terms of when you want to ensure
26:14that there's objectivity, independence, integrity,
26:18with reference to especially in a policing environment.
26:22What I can say, though,
26:24is that the senior officers that I work alongside
26:27over my time in the police service,
26:30we can argue an unwritten policy.
26:33So while I cannot speak to a written policy,
26:36there's an unwritten position
26:38that if, in fact, persons are forming an intimate relationship,
26:42for the betterment or the best interest of that department
26:45or that section,
26:47it may well be advisory
26:50for either one to remain and the other to leave
26:52so that they're in another department.
26:54So you don't have two persons within the same section or department
26:58if they, in fact, are in an intimate relationship.
27:00And I'll give you a perfect example.
27:02Could you imagine, Whitney, and just by way of example,
27:04permit me, can I just make an example?
27:06Could you imagine that I am your inspector?
27:10You are a sergeant of police.
27:13We are in an intimate relationship.
27:15And I have to give you instructions.
27:17And we fall out last night.
27:19That's the point.
27:20So the point is, and hence why I give the caller...
27:22I give the caller a lot of kudos
27:24to ensure that there's integrity
27:27in conducting the business of policing.
27:30Those are things that can distort.
27:32Because if I'm giving you an instruction to carry out an action
27:35and you are not carrying out an instruction
27:37because of that intimate relationship,
27:39however you may feel aggrieved,
27:41who is at a disadvantage?
27:43The person who is supposed to be the recipient of the service.
27:45We have a call. Let's take that call before we head to the break.
27:47Hello. Good evening.
27:49Pleasure. Good evening, sir.
27:51Good evening, sir.
27:53For the best view.
27:55Are you hearing me?
27:57Yes, we're hearing you loud and clear. Go ahead, sir.
27:59I would like to ask the officer a legal question.
28:05A person who is charged for assault,
28:11if that person could still go and work as a bouncer
28:18or bodyguard in a legal establishment,
28:22if that is a reward,
28:24a person who is on a bond for two years
28:27and is charged for assaulting somebody
28:30could still pose as a bouncer or a bodyguard
28:34at an establishment on the avenue
28:38who is well known to the Western Division
28:41as a nuisance,
28:43if that person could still be given employment
28:51to do bodyguard or bouncer service.
28:57Okay. Thank you.
28:59So, I'm assuming he has some sort of information
29:02but he's asking, hypothetically speaking,
29:06of if someone was charged and the role and function
29:10that they're in in the same field of dealing with people,
29:13are they still permitted to do so?
29:15But was the person they just charged and weren't convicted?
29:18Well, I think it's a great, again,
29:20another great submission this afternoon.
29:22And how I'd like to approach it is in this context.
29:25If someone is charged and convicted,
29:27let me use charged and convicted,
29:29for an assault,
29:31it would have shown at least some act of violence
29:33on the part of the individual
29:34to be charged and convicted for assault.
29:36If that person has served their time
29:38or pay whatever fine that may have been imposed,
29:41the question is, whoever that person is employed with,
29:44the question is,
29:45what is their policy in terms of employing persons?
29:48Is it that they will be asking for a certificate of character
29:50and that sort of thing?
29:51So, that's one aspect of it.
29:52But I love the question.
29:54So, I love the submission, sorry,
29:56because I think that what is healthy about it
29:58is that maybe, again, from development in the law,
30:01that when persons are charged and convicted for an assault,
30:05which is showing an act of violence,
30:07maybe the courts of Trinidad and Tobago
30:10should be moved to say,
30:12okay, can we prohibit this person from,
30:15in this context that he has explained,
30:16playing that bodyguard role,
30:18could we prohibit that person for any period of time
30:20to say, okay, for five years,
30:22you should not perform particular functions?
30:24I'm just giving an example.
30:25So, I think it's a healthy caller.
30:27I hope that the authorities are listening to you again.
30:29Whitney, these sort of things make me smile on this platform.
30:33You know, it might sound simple,
30:36but he's actually carrying you to a position
30:40where do not only look up about that particular incident
30:43and you have now punished that particular incident with the assault.
30:46Because the question is,
30:48are we satisfied that that person has rehabilitated?
30:51Are we satisfied that that person now would not abuse
30:54a position of what? Authority?
30:56Again.
30:57Again. That's the point.
30:58We take a break. We'll be back.
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32:35And remember, feel free to give us a call.
32:38We have a call on the line.
32:40It's actually phone lines.
32:42Hello.
32:43Good evening.
32:44Hello.
32:45Hello.
32:46Good evening.
32:47Good evening.
32:48Good evening, sir.
32:50Yes.
32:51Good evening to the lady.
32:53Atama.
32:54Thank you.
32:55Thank you.
32:56Thank you.
32:57Thank you.
32:58Thank you.
32:59Thank you.
33:00Thank you.
33:01Thank you.
33:02Good evening to the lady, assalamu alaikum, corporal Ali.
33:05May the peace and blessings of Almighty God
33:07be upon you as well.
33:10I called the other day,
33:11I spoke to one of your colleagues,
33:12but I did not get a satisfactory answer.
33:15And my feed was the amount of resources
33:20that the police expended to escorting heavy corporate.
33:25Now, the law speaks to a law beyond certain dimensions
33:31where you get written permission
33:33from the officer in charge of the first division.
33:35And this letter you must keep in your truck, right?
33:40The law doesn't say, listen,
33:41when you are transporting an oversized load,
33:43you have to get police escort.
33:45So you have your colleagues that will stop trucks
33:48on the road and tell them they have to get police escort.
33:52Right, when they are within the dimensions,
33:55the law never says, if you transport an oversized load,
33:58you have to get police escort.
34:01It seems to me it's just something extrajudicial.
34:05I would like you to elaborate on that, please.
34:08Caller, hold one second.
34:10This is the second time I'm hearing this from you
34:12and permit me to publicly to ask you to leave your number.
34:16I want to engage you a little deeper
34:17to ensure that we fully ventilate this matter
34:21and if required, the necessary steps be taken
34:24to have some reform in this particular area
34:26or to create some awareness
34:27or even to create a policy as we go forward.
34:29So kindly, leave your number
34:31so I can engage you after the show, please.
34:36Maybe, yeah.
34:37Yes, we will take that information from him
34:40and we will move from there.
34:41Because I know persons would like to know more
34:44about certain things that they see
34:46and apart from that and seeing certain things
34:50that you may see, I know that, okay, we have a call.
34:53I will take the call and I will ask that question after.
34:56Let's head to the phone lines again.
34:57Hello, good evening.
34:59Are you hearing me?
35:00Yes, ma'am.
35:01Good evening, ma'am.
35:02Good evening.
35:03Are you okay?
35:05Sound a little bit mixed up.
35:06Are you okay, generally?
35:08Yeah, I see you have very keen powers of observation
35:12and listening as well.
35:13Yes, I'm okay, but yes, I had a slight cold during the week
35:21because of the hectic week that I had
35:23to and from Trinidad and Tobago.
35:24So I'm okay for now, thank you.
35:26All right, okay, God bless and be safe.
35:29Yes, concerning what is happening to be
35:31with the murder toll has dropped a little bit to 2023
35:36and I'm wondering what happens when people are leaving,
35:41you know, Trinidad or...
35:43Ma'am, excuse, we're not hearing you.
35:46You're going in and out.
35:48So you need to make sure that the phone is closed to your mouth
35:50so we can hear you properly.
35:51All right, you're hearing me a little better now?
35:53Yes.
35:54All right, yes.
35:56When people are going to Tobago on the boat,
35:59are they well-checked?
36:01Because I'm wondering what is taking place
36:03because of these things that are happening.
36:05I remember at one time when anything happened in Tobago,
36:08they used to always say,
36:09it's somebody from Trinidad who came over to do it,
36:11but now it seems to be different.
36:13You know, so I'm wondering what is taking place.
36:15That's my first point.
36:17The second point is, officer,
36:19we had an attempted coup in this country in 1990,
36:23years after they had a commission of inquiry.
36:26What happened with the feedback or recommendations?
36:28Have we learned nothing?
36:30Because I'm hearing something about coups and whatever.
36:33So what has been said?
36:35What has been done to prevent something like that
36:37from happening?
36:38Anything?
36:39My third point is,
36:40there have been threats to the prison officers
36:43for them doing their own work.
36:44They looked, they checked and they checked and saw things,
36:47and cell phones and drugs and drones dropping things.
36:51And they're threatened.
36:53And what has been said is that the state
36:55fails to protect these officers.
36:57What is really happening?
36:59Have a blessed weekend, all of you, including Ms. Jackie.
37:02Thank you very much.
37:04Well, thank you, Kola.
37:06Kola, I just, you know, on a softer side,
37:08you know, there's a strategic pillar with me
37:11in the police service that talks about health and wellness.
37:13And I saw this Kola was on point
37:16in looking at my health and wellness.
37:17And Kola, I want to thank you very much for your concern.
37:21But in relation to your three issues,
37:23in fact, before I answer your three issues,
37:25the previous Kola with me,
37:27one of the reasons why I asked for a discussion off air,
37:33I want to look at it in a very balanced position
37:35because he has cited the law
37:38and the requirements of the law.
37:40But I also understand from a police context as well
37:42that they may have some position
37:44that they may want to submit.
37:46Case in point, they may be looking at probably
37:48because of the nature of the equipment.
37:49While they may not be in law,
37:51a need to have police.
37:53A proactive approach may be okay.
37:54There may be obstruction along the roadway,
37:56the timing that it may be flowing and that sort of thing.
37:58But hence why I want to look at both sides
38:00so that we can come up with what is best
38:02in the best interest of all parties.
38:03So that's the previous Kola.
38:05But this particular, the Kola,
38:07in relation to her three issues, quickly,
38:08I deal with the, the last one was the prison officers.
38:11Yes.
38:12With me, I think the time,
38:13and I know that there's some discussions.
38:17I think the time has come for,
38:18when we are looking at our nation's prison.
38:21I strongly believe in terms of, you know,
38:25looking at what is happening, what is transpiring.
38:28I think that we require a state response
38:30in protecting our prisons.
38:31And I do not want to divulge further,
38:33but when I speak about a state's position,
38:36as opposed to a prison's position,
38:38it tells me I'm looking for a collaborative effort.
38:40That's one.
38:41The second issue that the Kola raised.
38:43Commission of inquiry.
38:44With reference to the commission of inquiry.
38:46Now, just coming up here this afternoon,
38:49I just reflected on the charges that were laid
38:53by coming out of the diving.
38:57Yes.
38:58Pario.
38:58The Pario issue.
38:59Two persons were.
39:02I can't recall clearly,
39:03but persons were placed before the court, right?
39:07But just looking at the issue of the commission of inquiry,
39:09and I know our independent senator
39:11would have called for reform
39:13with reference to that commission of inquiry.
39:14And I would like to echo and support that call
39:17that in relation to what really should be.
39:20Now, the commission of inquiry clearly identify
39:23what should be the objective of a commission of inquiry
39:26and what should flow from it.
39:27But I think it's important for us to now revisit that
39:30in the context.
39:30Because that Kola asked a question
39:31in terms of whether the findings
39:32of a commission of inquiry.
39:34Yes, some may be public.
39:37But the question is, the average citizen,
39:40are they fully aware as to what really transpired?
39:44I don't think so.
39:44So hence, I'm saying that with commission of inquiries,
39:47it's important for us to achieve the full value
39:50of what a commission of inquiry should entail.
39:54And the.
39:55The vehicles being checked.
39:57Yes, on vehicles being checked on the.
39:59Kola, again, you could not be more pointed.
40:01When we are speaking about our strategy
40:03to deal with crime in Tobago,
40:05I'm just looking at Tobago as our context.
40:07We cannot be devising a strategy,
40:09and the strategy is only embedded
40:11within the Tobago jurisdiction.
40:14It must start at the port in Trinidad and Tobago,
40:16where persons are leaving Trinidad
40:18to go across to Tobago.
40:18Just one country.
40:19That's correct.
40:20Or vice versa, to go to Tobago.
40:21Well, besides being one country,
40:23the fact of the matter is our crime strategy.
40:25Simply put, anything from Trinidad can go to Tobago.
40:28And vice versa.
40:29Anything from other islands can come to Tobago.
40:30So that should always be in contemplation
40:33in terms of ensuring that our ports
40:36are properly scrutinized to ensure
40:39that there is no movement of illegal contraband
40:41or persons who may be suspected
40:44from Trinidad to Tobago, and vice versa.
40:46Ports should always be part of that strategy.
40:48Now, we know that there are both legal
40:50and illegal ports of entry.
40:52So again, it's important for the crime strategy
40:54to also look at what may be conducive points
40:57where persons may be coming through fishing vessels
41:00and using other avenues.
41:02So again, very important point in relation to our ports.
41:05You have heard about it, Whitney.
41:06We don't have scanners.
41:08Well, we have heard that question tabled many times,
41:10and we even heard reading in the open source
41:13that allegations of scanners being tampered with
41:17and so forth.
41:17I have no evidence of that.
41:18But who tampering with it?
41:19I have no evidence of that.
41:20But again, an area that we must look at
41:23from a transnational context.
41:24Yeah, we have to take a break.
41:26We'll be back.
41:27Oh!
41:28Oh!
41:29Oh!
41:30Oh!
41:31Oh!
41:32Oh!
41:32Oh!
41:33Oh!
41:34Oh!
41:35Oh!
41:36Oh!
41:37Oh!
41:38Oh!
41:38Oh!
41:39Oh!
41:40Oh!
41:41Oh!
41:42Oh!
41:43Oh!
41:43Oh!
41:44Oh!
41:45Oh!
41:46Oh!
41:47Oh!
41:48Oh!
41:48Oh!
41:49Oh!
41:50Oh!
41:51Oh!
41:52Oh!
41:53Oh!
41:53Oh!
41:54Oh!
41:55Oh!
41:56Oh!
41:57Oh!
41:58Oh!
41:59Oh!
41:59Oh!
42:00Oh!
42:01Oh!
42:02Oh!
42:03Oh!
42:04Oh!
42:04Oh!
42:05Oh!
42:06Oh!
42:07Oh!
42:08Oh!
42:09Oh!
42:09This is Mary.
42:11Mary has bills to pay
42:13and takes a chance parking in front of the building
42:16at the no parking sign.
42:18Mary returns to her car
42:20and this is what happens.
42:29Mary decides to call when she's five minutes away
42:32to let her daughter know that she is close by.
42:35But Mary forgot one thing.
42:39Boy, second ticket for the day.
42:41I don't know.
42:42I really don't know.
42:43Well, I tell you.
42:44After two tickets,
42:46Mary just isn't paying attention to her speed.
43:04Don't be like Mary.
43:06Obey the laws of the road.
43:08A message from the TTPS.
43:26Legally speaking on a Friday.
43:28Don't worry.
43:29Don't get confused.
43:30But Corporal Ali is here with us today.
43:32A little switch up.
43:33But we have a call on the line.
43:34So let's take that call.
43:35Hello.
43:37Hello.
43:39Hello.
43:40Yes, sir, you're live.
43:41Go ahead.
43:42Right.
43:43Good afternoon.
43:44Good evening, sir.
43:45So Corporal Ali, I'd like to get some guidance.
43:47I'm using a hypothetical situation
43:50that has some reality.
43:52But I need to get some idea how to proceed.
43:55So hypothetically speaking,
43:58I live in an office salon
44:01for about 20 years.
44:05I invite a brother-in-law of mine
44:08to come and live on a piece,
44:12a part of that same land.
44:14And we're going along
44:16and all of a sudden,
44:18he gets electricity.
44:21I don't own the property.
44:22He don't own the property.
44:23But he gets electricity and water.
44:28Is that something that I could...
44:32How do I find out
44:35if that is an offense?
44:37If the police will get involved?
44:39Is that a private matter?
44:43Seeking your guidance.
44:46Thank you.
44:47He said he wasn't...
44:48No one knows who owns the property, right?
44:51I can't confirm whether he...
44:54Looking at the ownership of the property.
44:56But what I'll say in terms of...
44:57It's a common issue in terms of the utility.
45:01If he invited someone...
45:03The reason I would have answered off-air,
45:07but in terms of where we are talking,
45:08public utilities.
45:10He invited based on what he has reported.
45:13He has invited a brother-in-law.
45:14Brother-in-law.
45:15A brother-in-law, sorry.
45:16And a brother-in-law subsequently obtained...
45:18Electricity and water line.
45:20So the question there is that
45:22if the ownership of that property
45:25is one very significant,
45:27because what should be happening
45:28is that when you make an application
45:30for a connection,
45:31whether it be WASA or TNTEC,
45:33there should be diligent investigation
45:35to determine what was the...
45:37And again, this word coming up
45:38that I used this afternoon.
45:39Legitimacy.
45:40What was the legitimacy
45:41or the legitimate...
45:44The reasons for that person
45:46being on that land in the first instance
45:47and had they investigated like that,
45:49that person,
45:50what did they fed to the TNTEC commission?
45:54Did they receive...
45:55That's correct.
45:56A letter saying a permission.
45:57That's correct.
45:58That's correct.
45:59So if they were investigating that matter properly
46:00or the person in making a full and frank
46:03and honest disclosure,
46:05that person should have indicated that
46:06by virtue of his what?
46:08His brother-in-law
46:09that he became into possession
46:10of that particular property.
46:12So the question is
46:13the TNTEC and WASA,
46:14again, I want to urge you all,
46:16do your diligent investigations
46:18and check to ensure
46:19that persons who are making applications
46:20for utility
46:21do not only look at it as a revenue,
46:23look at it as whether in fact
46:25you are issuing connection
46:28to persons who may not be
46:30in a legitimate position
46:32to obtain a connection
46:33or persons who may be making what?
46:35False declaration
46:36because if they investigate the matter
46:37including visiting the land,
46:38they would have seen who?
46:40The brother-in-law
46:41who granted the permission
46:42to that person to come on land
46:43and ask him,
46:44do you have any objections
46:45with now giving that person...
46:48That is a whole process.
46:49That's correct.
46:50You can't just run and put a line
46:51or a connection.
46:52That's correct.
46:53But if someone does that,
46:54let's just say
46:55you have a family member
46:56who stays by you
46:57and they stayed,
46:58in this case,
46:59a long time.
47:00They didn't go and bill anything
47:01but they just stay in there
47:02and they are now seeking to,
47:04for example,
47:05get a loan
47:06and the place where they reside
47:08is by you.
47:09Yes.
47:10How is that person
47:11able to get a loan
47:12if need be?
47:13You can't get a fraudulent document
47:17stating that you have ownership
47:19of this property,
47:20hence why you are able
47:21to have this set address.
47:23Is it that the person
47:24has to give
47:25who owns the property
47:26permission for this person
47:27to say that this person resides here?
47:29Important.
47:30Important.
47:31The ownership of that property
47:32must always be factored in
47:35in terms of
47:36who has the authority
47:37to enter the premises.
47:38The person who has
47:39the legal authority
47:40for that land
47:41is important to engage.
47:43Just to go back
47:44to this issue with utility.
47:45The person who has
47:46the legal authority
47:47for that parcel of land
47:48should have been engaged
47:49by the utility
47:51with reference to that application
47:52from that individual
47:53who wants to get there.
47:54Not that that person
47:55could not have gotten it,
47:56but it's important
47:57for the investigation
47:58to be able to come into contact
48:00with the legal owner
48:01of that premises.
48:02What you have
48:03is a situation
48:04where it might well be
48:05that that person
48:06who is on the land
48:07may have made an application
48:08and probably perhaps
48:09may have made
48:10a false declaration
48:11because that person
48:12may not have indicated
48:13how he came into possession
48:14of the land.
48:15He came through
48:16with the consent of who?
48:17The other party.
48:18Yes, correct.
48:19The application
48:20should have included that
48:21and WASA
48:22or TNTEC,
48:23whichever utility,
48:24in this case it's TNTEC,
48:25should have visited that land
48:26to find out exactly
48:27who is the person
48:28with the authority
48:29in that land
48:30or even request documents
48:31to determine
48:32who is the legal owner
48:33of that property,
48:34who has the right
48:35to that property
48:36to be able to engage
48:37with that person.
48:38So a person,
48:39if he wants to tell him
48:40get off of the property,
48:41not in this case,
48:42but a person
48:43who has the deed,
48:44everything,
48:45and they let the person know
48:46it's time for you to get off,
48:47could they do that legally
48:48or is it a certain time
48:49if that person
48:50is on the land
48:51or residing
48:52at that space
48:53for that period
48:54that you can't just
48:55tell them to leave?
48:56Well, it determines
48:57what is the relationship
48:58between you and the person
48:59who is on the land.
49:00Sometimes you may have what?
49:01You may have an oral contract
49:02or an oral lease
49:03or a written lease
49:04as the case may be.
49:05But if you had none?
49:06Well, the question is
49:07if there is none,
49:08the question is
49:09in terms of that consent
49:10that you give to that person,
49:11those things will have to be
49:12and where land issues are concerned,
49:13even if there is nothing written,
49:14it's important to look
49:15at the dealings
49:16between the party.
49:17Those are things
49:18that must be investigated properly,
49:19but I will close
49:20by indicating
49:21that once you're having
49:22issues with land,
49:23I will always advise
49:24the person
49:25to seek proper legal advice
49:26where land is concerned.
49:27Land is very sensitive
49:29and the utilities.
49:31I want to leave this point
49:32with you all.
49:33Investigate properly
49:34all applications
49:35for connection,
49:36whether it be WASA
49:37or TNTEC.
49:38You might just unveil
49:39things that may be
49:40of more interest
49:41to other authorities.
49:42Okay.
49:43We have another call
49:44on the line?
49:45No?
49:46All right.
49:47So what we are going to do,
49:48we have a few minutes
49:49before we go to the break.
49:50Now,
49:51I was going to ask you a question
49:52before we receive that call.
49:53Yes.
49:54I know you gave reference
49:56to different types of assault.
49:58If someone spits in someone's food,
50:01is that considered assault?
50:04Well, the question is...
50:05Or tampers with someone's food.
50:07Well, the question is if,
50:08and let me put it back to you,
50:09someone spits in your food
50:11and I'm going to examine
50:12that circumstances.
50:13The question I'll ask you,
50:14by the person spitting
50:15in your food,
50:16did you apprehend
50:17unlawful violence
50:18on your person
50:19or in an immediate context?
50:21So yes,
50:22they may have
50:23spit into the food.
50:24They didn't spit on you, per se.
50:26But the circumstances
50:27when I'm investigating it,
50:28what is your state of mind?
50:29How are you perceiving this person
50:31by their conduct
50:32and their behavior?
50:33If, by spitting in the food,
50:34you still have that apprehension
50:36that that person
50:37may inflict unlawful violence
50:38on you,
50:39that still amounts to an assault.
50:40But if it's not coming out
50:41where there's no apprehension
50:43of unlawful violence
50:44on the person,
50:45on your person,
50:46then I cannot see an assault there
50:47in terms of just spitting
50:48into the food.
50:49So you must be clear.
50:50It's ticklish, too.
50:51Yeah, it must be clear
50:52that there's apprehension
50:53of the unlawful violence
50:55on the person.
50:56That is where
50:57the apprehension must come.
50:58Because it wasn't dealt to me.
51:00Yes.
51:01And it was on an object
51:02that was affecting me.
51:04As I said before.
51:05Well, it is
51:06because it's my food.
51:07Right, but what I'm saying
51:08to you is that...
51:09But my anger,
51:10if I'm triggered in that moment,
51:11even if I found out
51:12the next day.
51:13Let's say I ate the food.
51:14Yes.
51:16And I found out the next day
51:17and my reaction is
51:19I charge at the person.
51:21I will be wrong?
51:23Let me leave it to you
51:24that the law where assault
51:25is concerned,
51:26we cannot rewrite the law
51:27where assault is concerned.
51:28It must be
51:29you must
51:31apprehension
51:33of unlawful violence
51:34on your person.
51:35That is the apprehension
51:36you must have.
51:37That is where assault
51:38is concerned.
51:39It would have been different
51:40if the person spat on me.
51:41That's correct.
51:42Then I could have reacted.
51:43That's correct.
51:44That is where
51:45if the person spit in your food
51:46and the circumstances
51:47are unfolding.
51:48If the investigation
51:49doesn't go in
51:50and I ask you a question,
51:51in addition to
51:52spitting in your food,
51:53how do you feel?
51:54And you present it to me
51:55that you felt that
51:56after you spit in my food
51:57you're going to cuff me down
51:58because you're already
51:59showing some
52:00form of violence.
52:01Then it is
52:02interconnected
52:03with the whole activity
52:04but the facts
52:05must trigger
52:06the apprehension
52:07of unlawful violence
52:08on the person
52:09of another.
52:10That must come out
52:11in the evidence.
52:12Otherwise,
52:13it is somewhat twisted
52:14at times.
52:15I'm not going to lie
52:16because it's the same
52:17if I saw you
52:18in the act
52:19going to spit
52:20and I come
52:21and attack you,
52:22I will be
52:23getting the brung
52:24and the stick.
52:25Yes.
52:26You need to be
52:27very careful
52:28in terms of
52:29where assault
52:30is concerned.
52:31It's the second time
52:32you've asked me
52:33about that
52:34and I think
52:35it might be important
52:36for us to
52:37look at the
52:38common law
52:39and the offences
52:40against the person
52:41to see exactly
52:42what the law requires.
52:43We cannot deviate
52:44from that
52:45because we will be
52:46now going contrary
52:47to what the law requires.
52:48Yes.
52:49We take a break.
52:50When we come back
52:51we'll wrap things up.
52:52We'll be back.
53:43Thank you.
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