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00:00I got to tell you, if you follow the NFL, you need to be on NFLBlueBook.com.
00:05It's new, it's hot, it's fresh, it's really easy to read.
00:10He's got a ton of great stories on there.
00:12It's seven days old.
00:13And Charles Robinson is making it happen.
00:16Man, I'm looking at this website, and this is just so clean.
00:20Man, wow.
00:21I can't wait to dive into this thing.
00:22And by the way, Charles is on the line right now.
00:25He's on the Wiseheart Right, We Make It Right, Call Kyle Right outline
00:28after his tour of Cleveland yesterday.
00:30Hi, Charles.
00:31How are you?
00:32I'm good, and I'm so behind on my camp reports,
00:37and this is where it sucks being your own boss
00:40because you can't complain about your boss.
00:43Just look in the mirror and start screaming at yourself.
00:45Nice job, dude.
00:45Like, this guy's a jerk.
00:49All I hear is how behind I am on my camp reports.
00:52That's all right.
00:52Hey, Charles, I'm looking at the site, man.
00:54It looks fantastic.
00:55It's super clean and easy to read.
00:57Yeah, I will say it was funny because I ran into Albert Breer yesterday
01:01at practice, Brown's practice, and yesterday was my sixth in a row,
01:07but Breer's done like 17 and 17.
01:08I think I've done 13 total.
01:10And I was just saying, I'm like, I don't know how you –
01:13I was like, I'm on a plane or I'm in a car or I'm watching a practice
01:17or I'm talking to somebody.
01:19I'm like, I don't know how you find time to write.
01:21And so we commiserated on, you know, how you come up with a, you know,
01:28scheme to try to grind in between.
01:30So, yeah, it's been a lot of fun, but it was definitely great to get into practice
01:35and see the Browns yesterday, talk to, you know, Andrew Barry
01:40and obviously Todd and just kind of get a feel for what practice looks like.
01:46And a lot of juice with the young guys.
01:48I'll say, man, Isaiah Bond, what a catch.
01:50What a catch yesterday laying out for a slightly wobbly deep pass from Shadour, man.
01:57That was one of the more impressive camp practices I've seen –
02:00or camp catches, I'm sorry, camp catches I've seen.
02:03Yeah, I mean, it was – I thought Bond looked improved, you know.
02:08Like it was – he kind of felt like a one-gear guy, you know, last year.
02:11And I was like, is this just what he's going to be?
02:14And, you know, there was – it was interesting to kind of see him look a little –
02:19looks like he, you know, put on a little poundage
02:22and looks like he's factoring in not just in the deep, you know, game, which is nice.
02:27Yeah, but don't you think part of that for Isaiah is just being comfortable?
02:29I mean, he had a weird entrance into the NFL.
02:32Absolutely.
02:33And so now you can kind of settle into his job, right?
02:35Yeah.
02:36I – you know, it's funny because I was talking to Todd about it,
02:38and Todd was like, well, hey, don't forget, you know, how he came in the league.
02:41And I was like, oh, my God, that's right.
02:43Like it wasn't – it wasn't the traditional entrance at all.
02:46So he actually had a – you know, it's – obviously between year one and two,
02:51having that offseason is always really a big deal for rookies
02:54and going into your second season.
02:57But obviously his situation was completely different.
02:59But that to me was a positive that I saw up there where I'm like, okay, there's –
03:03you know, there's depth.
03:04It's not just the, you know, Casey and Denzel show,
03:09which I've seen a ton of clips, you know, going into that practice.
03:13But definitely one of the things that I think you notice is when you have –
03:18you stack two really good draft classes and you get out and you watch,
03:22you know, practices, you see all these young guys just providing so much juice.
03:27And I told you guys Jared Verse was going to wreak havoc.
03:32I told people this.
03:33Nobody listened to me.
03:34Everybody was angry.
03:35And the funny thing is that I went through Rams and, you know,
03:41obviously you go through, you talk about Miles Garrett.
03:43But I will tell you their locker room was initially, you know,
03:47and I think some of it's friendship,
03:48but also because they knew what kind of team made it.
03:51You know, they were upset that Verse got traded in that deal.
03:55You know, they were happy to have Miles in.
03:56But there were certainly guys in that locker room that I think were a little –
04:00had their nose out of a joint because they felt like they lost a really good young player.
04:05So the catch by Bond was as good as you've seen in training camp.
04:10How was the pass?
04:11And how was the quarterback play?
04:16So I have a hot-ish take on this.
04:19Oh, boy.
04:19Pregnant pause.
04:20Wow.
04:23So here's my thing.
04:26I think you have to accept the reality that, you know,
04:30there's a solid chance the 2027 starter's not on this roster, right?
04:35Like, I think we can – we all can accept that there's a solid chance.
04:40Now, we'll see what happens over the course of the season.
04:42But my thought process is, if it's close, I think you go with Shadur because you're like,
04:56let's see what the younger player has to offer us.
04:59Now, the defense, to me, I think has an opportunity to make this a team that can win games.
05:07And if that is true, then I think you go with whoever – whatever.
05:11And obviously, I think this is the plan, especially after talking to Munkin.
05:14It's who's going to win you games, period.
05:16Like, that's – you know, you can slice it and dice it 50 million ways,
05:21but whoever's going to be the quarterback that actually can win you games is what Munkin wants first and foremost.
05:27And you can debate the 50 paths that you get there.
05:32But my thought process is, if it's going to be a season in which you're not in playoff contention at
05:40some point,
05:41I think regardless of the play at that point, I think you have to at least see where Shadur takes
05:48you
05:48so that you know what you're doing heading into this next offseason.
05:54So, I know everybody's had their different, you know, opinions on this.
05:59And I think overall, the quarterback play is – it's going to be, you know, up and down and frustrating
06:07for people.
06:08And, you know, Deshaun, to me, still – I think he looks healthier, for sure, than I've seen him in
06:14the past.
06:14But the turnover issues are obviously going to continue to be a big question with him.
06:22And I think any time – I always go back to when Cam Newton had shoulder surgery.
06:30He was never really ever – he never had a chance to really be the same player after that.
06:34Like other things in terms of his health diminished, but I never thought he – he seemed to me,
06:39once that shoulder got worked on, the throwing shoulder, I think that, you know,
06:43there was just no chance that he was going to be the same player he ever was again.
06:46And so, just from a health factor, I wonder if there's really anything you can ever get out of Deshaun
06:53that would convince you to feel like he's your guy moving forward.
06:56I don't – where have you guys been on this?
06:59And how concerned are fans right now about quarterback?
07:07Extremely.
07:07And we've been all over it.
07:08And I think Andy and I both agree with you, Charles.
07:11The quarterback of the future on this team isn't on this team right now.
07:14We think it's next year.
07:17But, you know, we'll see.
07:18Should the Browns be looking for a different quarterback for this year?
07:28If you had asked me that before I came through, I would have said no.
07:32But now that I – and, again, I was only in there for one practice,
07:36so I don't want to get over my skis on this.
07:38The defense to me looks like it – you know, despite moving Miles Garrett,
07:45I still think this defense can be really, really good.
07:49And I think after talking to people in the building, I think Mason Graham is going to –
07:56I think there is certainly some – there's thoughts in the building that he is going to be the guy
08:03that maybe people by the end of the 2026 season, people go, okay, okay, we're good.
08:08Like, we're not concerned about, you know, maybe what we thought the lack of particularly sack production was in 2025.
08:16So I think there are young guys that are going to take a stride forward.
08:20You know, Jared Burse, I'm sure he'll be a captain.
08:23And I'm sure – I think he's going to live up to what the Rams thought he would be,
08:29which is, you know, a consistent double sack – you know, a double-digit sack guy who, you know,
08:36very consistently wreaks havoc on opposing teams, draws at least two sets of hands on a pretty constant basis.
08:46I think if that's the case and there is an upgrade available that the Browns know and are comfortable,
08:53then you have that conversation.
08:54But I just don't know if that's actually going to materialize.
08:58If you guys have a quarterback in mind, let me know.
09:04If Will Levis would like a new home or if Anthony Richardson would like a look.
09:09No.
09:10Yeah, but look at what you have now.
09:12I don't know.
09:13No, you don't – I mean, listen, right now, I mean, Levis is the number –
09:19I would say he's the number three quarterback in Tennessee, and that's for a reason.
09:23I don't think – I don't think Levis, particularly not having Ben in the system,
09:28is an upgrade over what you have.
09:32Will Levis has not shown the ability consistently to make the decisions you want to play.
09:39But every – the book on Will is this.
09:41You look at him, and you're like, he is built in a lab to be a quarterback.
09:47You're like, it's very impressive.
09:48And the tools that he has are very impressive.
09:51But that's where it ends.
09:53Like, he can't make the decisions that will keep you in a winning mode constantly.
09:59He – I've said it in the past, he reminds me a lot of Carson Wentz, where he – as
10:04soon as things get chaotic around him,
10:07he's liable to throw a pick six or to throw a ball where you're like, what are you doing?
10:12You absolutely can't do that.
10:14And you get benched very quickly playing the way that he plays.
10:18And I don't think he's made strides – you know, there's been obviously some health issues,
10:24but I don't think he's made strides that have made the Titans confident enough to even keep him at the
10:29number two quarterbacks.
10:31But I – so it's got to be someone else other than Levis.
10:34What else did you say?
10:36Anthony Richardson, here's the thing.
10:40I don't like any of the quarterbacks that we have on our team.
10:43And if you're going to roll out a year, maybe take the shot at the best guy who just might
10:49be able to keep you from drafting a guy in 2027.
10:53That, to me, means you probably start Shadour and you roll with it.
10:56But other than that, what are you going to do?
10:59I'm just telling you, when you haven't had either of those guys in your system, right?
11:04So they're coming in, they're learning a new offense,
11:07they've already had issues at their prior stops with the offenses that they ran in prior stops.
11:16Richardson's completely unrefined, needs significant years and reps in a system.
11:25And I would say, you know, passing programs in the offseason to even figure out whether –
11:32I don't think any – either of those guys get you any closer to not looking at the 2027 –
11:38the next offseason and the 2027 draft and considering what your options are.
11:42Because the class is going to be a banger unless –
11:46you know, let's see what happens during the college season.
11:49I think that always adjusts.
11:50But I think there will be someone who kind of comes out of nowhere.
11:53There will probably be someone, one or two quarterbacks that we like in this class
11:57that maybe fade a little bit, but it should still absolutely be a strong class.
12:03And then I think every offseason now there's quarterback migration.
12:06So even if it's not out of that draft class, I think there might be other options available,
12:10whether it's veterans or, you know, maybe even a young guy who's fallen out of favor
12:15but does – has shown some element of upside.
12:18So that's why I don't think – you just need one of these –
12:23and I really believe it would have to be Shadur to really run away with it.
12:26And that's my problem.
12:28If you're looking at the quarterback spot right now
12:30and neither player is really running away with it,
12:33I think you lean into what's the longer-term upside player
12:38and let's see where that player goes.
12:40And to me, that's Shadur.
12:42Charles, I mean, if you were actually looking at bringing somebody else in,
12:44to me it's Cooper Rush later in the season only because he's had time with Todd.
12:50Because I don't think there's any way they could –
12:52they couldn't get Tyler Huntley out of Baltimore.
12:54There's no way he's coming to –
12:55like I couldn't see that.
12:59But again, I'm trying to find people with Todd, you know.
13:03And Cooper's had some starting –
13:04you know, look, he's had starting stints, right?
13:07And he's, you know, the game manager quarterback that you bring in.
13:13And, you know, if your defense is playing extremely well
13:16and putting you in situations to win games,
13:18I think particularly with the set of offensive players they have,
13:23especially if, you know, Casey can come out and contribute right away as a rookie,
13:30if Denzel can come out and contribute right away as a rookie,
13:34I think you can put a quarterback like that in there
13:37and have a steady enough offense that defense wins you games.
13:42And especially if you're getting, you know, look, if Quinchon's playing well,
13:46if you can run the football – and I think Fannin, honestly, I –
13:49it's not – and it's not like I just saw this in one practice,
13:52but I think Fannin is that guy that could really, really be the –
13:59I mean, he could be your leading receiver this year easily.
14:02Like, I think he'd be a 1,000-yard tight end consistently
14:05if they made him that kind of a focus in the offense.
14:09Like, to me – and I could be wrong because, again, I come in one day
14:13and I haven't seen anything that would suggest otherwise
14:16in terms of, like, following along the camp from afar,
14:18but he just seems like the guy where every time I watch him
14:23and really focus on him, you find something to like
14:28even more than, you know, what you'd seen before.
14:32So – but, yeah, I mean, the young – whatever they do in 2027
14:36with a quarterback, whoever that quarterback is,
14:38it feels to me like this is a great position to be stepping into
14:41when you look at the surrounding pieces.
14:43Charles, I want to go back to something you said
14:45because I thought it was interesting when we were talking about Mason Graham.
14:47Sam, and the productivity they got from him last year
14:50and the lack of sacks, could he have been hindered
14:53or maybe stifled a little by Myles Garrett
14:56and the quest to have him become the, you know, the sack leader
15:00and to do things – like, I wonder how that plays into it
15:04and then, you know, if that's the kind of game they were playing,
15:07how does that change with Jared Verse?
15:11Is that a fair thing to even say?
15:13Yeah, I mean, I don't – it would be hard for me to say that without –
15:17you know, really asking that specific question to Mason
15:22and then also, you know, people that were in the building
15:26throughout the course of – you know, it's a question I didn't ask,
15:29you know, in terms of specificity, like, hey, tell me why.
15:32Sure.
15:33Maybe that production was a little more lacking.
15:36I think it was, you know, more brought to my attention that, hey, okay,
15:40here are these young guys that we really are feeling good about.
15:42And I think Mason was one that they feel like he's taken that year one to year two.
15:49He's taken a stride.
15:51I – look, in terms of, you know, just dumb logic,
15:55I always feel like because offenses make Myles such a focus of what they do
16:03and there's always two sets of hands on him and you're always sliding protection to him.
16:07And if there's not a triple team, that would tend to be advantageous,
16:12regardless of what you're doing scheme-wise with a defensive, you know,
16:15an interior defensive player, that would always be advantageous.
16:19So I'd be surprised if the rationale rolled out from inside the Browns as well.
16:26You know, Myles is not a problem.
16:28Okay, I just – I've only got like a minute left.
16:30I just want your take on why you think Deshaun Watson's starting the first preseason game.
16:36I think because, you know, he's the veteran,
16:38and I think it's probably what Todd is most comfortable with, you know, right now.
16:46And by the way, I do think – I know you only got a couple seconds here.
16:49I do think it does matter, even though they will tell you don't
16:51because they both will start a preseason game.
16:54I think it matters who goes first because that player, especially if he plays really well,
17:00that drops an anchor into the thought process of, okay, we've seen him play well.
17:05You don't want to say he's the leader in the clubhouse at that point,
17:07but it kind of cements in your mind.
17:09And then, by the way, it also puts pressure on the next guy
17:12because now Shadur's got to think about that.
17:14Okay, if Deshaun plays really well, now I feel pressure to push it.
17:18So I'm different than other people.
17:20I think that who came out first does matter.
17:22All right, Charles, I want to make sure everybody knows about NFLBlueBook.com.
17:26That's your new site.
17:27You can get in there for free, too, to kind of dip your toes in the water.
17:30Tell everybody about the site.
17:32Yeah, absolutely.
17:33I mean, it's something I've been – an idea I've been carrying around for a long time.
17:39Eventually, it's going to shift into focusing on the 32 front offices
17:42and the NFL personnel, very personnel-heavy.
17:45You know, that ecosystem, I feel like there's not been one focused kind of effort
17:53to treat it as a beat.
17:55All the front offices answer things like, you know, who has control of the 53 in this organization?
18:00You know, how does the flow chart work in terms of decision-making?
18:03Hey, what do – when the Brendan Sorsby thing, you know, comes down with the gambling
18:08and him losing his eligibility in NCAA, how does that change the thought process
18:13of front offices when it comes to, like, gambling and this player in particular?
18:18So I just think it's an area that really deserves dedicated year-round focus,
18:23and there are a million stories you can write on it.
18:25And it's starting in a more linear way.
18:28We're just reporting on the NFL right now,
18:30but it's gradually going to shift more toward consistent front office coverage.
18:35So I'd love if people checked it out.
18:38I'll be writing a couple catch-up notebooks very quickly soon here
18:41because my boss is on top of me about it.
18:45So –
18:45I love a gun.
18:46Yeah, you can get in free.
18:47Check it out.
18:48All right.
18:49NFLbluebook.com.
18:50That's where you want to go.
18:51Bookmark it today, and make sure you're following him on all platforms
18:54and social media.
18:55Charles, thank you, thank you, thank you.
18:57Appreciate it, fellas.
18:58Call me anytime.
18:58All right, we'll talk again.
18:59Thanks, Charles.
19:00Best of luck with that.
19:01There you go.
19:01Charles Robinson.
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