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00:00Let me ask you, why is it so crazy to talk about who the backup is and whether they will
00:06play
00:07when we all agreed that Deshaun Watson probably wasn't going to be able to hold on to the job all
00:12year
00:13because of either play or his physical ability?
00:17I understand. I think partly because of what I said on Monday, where I think it's very hard.
00:23This is still fun, and I think a lot of people in the back of their minds are wondering
00:27if this thing is going to eventually get real, real quick and things aren't going to go where they are.
00:33I think that a Browns fan is struggling with answering the question,
00:37are they good or are they off to a good start? Because there's differences.
00:41We see that a lot in baseball, but are they good or are they really good
00:45or are we just off to a really good start here? Will the bottom fall out here?
00:49And I think Browns fans are feeling that way.
00:51So you bring up a scenario that's troublesome to a Browns fan.
00:56That they don't like to think about because things are going really, really well right now.
01:00We've got the Jets coming up on Sunday, and you even brought up in your own fears,
01:04like, man, are we overlooking the Jets? Are we getting over our skis?
01:06Got a young football team here. This is going to be a test of how serious they take things.
01:10You had a mini-bye week. You got this time. Everybody's loving the Browns.
01:14You're shooting up the power rankings for a lot of teams.
01:18I mean, Pete Prisco has you top 15 now. Florio has you number 12 for crying out loud.
01:23I mean, that's a playoff team legitimately here.
01:26And I think so many folks are wondering, how long is this going to last?
01:29So when you bring up a scenario like that, well, what would happen?
01:33It's like, oh, God, are we really doing this?
01:35Like, I think a lot of people feel that way.
01:37Yes, they have these conversations in the building, without a doubt, yes.
01:41But it's still going to be troublesome to a Browns fan.
01:44Yeah, it's all – I mean, it's all the contingency stuff.
01:46And, hey, right now, the way Deshaun Watson is playing, it's been uneven, but it's been good enough.
01:52And I spent, you know, Friday, Monday, bit of yesterday, lobbying that he's been better than a lot of his
01:59peers, you know, around the league.
02:01Most guys that everybody has ahead of him.
02:03That's true.
02:04He's actually outplaying them.
02:05That's true.
02:05Still not – I'm not confusing it for elite quarterback play.
02:09It certainly hasn't been that.
02:10But he's growing in the offense.
02:13The question is, you know, how long can this last?
02:16Right now, like, if you were to poll Browns fans, what percentage of them think this is going to be
02:21his job for, you know, all 17 games?
02:25It's obviously much higher than it was.
02:27Yeah, I'd say it's probably in the realm of 40-60.
02:31Probably there.
02:32Yeah, so why is it –
02:33I'm 40% thinking it's his job for all 17.
02:37If it's not a majority opinion, then why is it crazy to talk about what could happen next?
02:42Just because they know it's – just because they talk about it in the building doesn't mean they always want
02:45to talk about it themselves.
02:47It is a troubling thing.
02:48Like, you're prepared – people don't like to sit there and talk about life – they don't like to talk
02:53about life insurance policies.
02:54They don't like to talk about things that aren't fun.
02:57People don't like to talk – like, I brought up –
02:58Yeah, I listen to all sorts of podcasts about life insurance policies.
03:03It's amazing.
03:04No, but you're not fun.
03:04Man, I mean, yesterday was three hours on it.
03:07He's not fun.
03:09I think a lot of people go, yeah, Limey, you're sitting there listening about life insurance and things to do
03:14after you're dead.
03:15There's a whole world out there of entertainment.
03:17You guys are missing out.
03:17Tone would absolutely be thinking of something like that.
03:19But I think for a lot of people, like, hey, what's more fun, planning for your future or going over
03:23to the casino?
03:24Going over to the casino.
03:25And the Browns at 3-1 feels like we just keep rolling and we're just – we're on a biscuit
03:31train with gravy wheels, man, or a gravy train with biscuit wheels or whatever they say.
03:35Like, so it bothers them.
03:37Well, what precipitated the whole conversation was the thought that Dylan Gabriel did now have to make a decision in
03:43the next, you know, three weeks on what they're going to do with him.
03:47Like, or Talon Green, I don't know, some people thought they could just – they could just cut him and
03:52he'd clear waivers and he'd get him back.
03:54I'm not so sure on that.
03:55I'm not sure either.
03:57I don't think they're sure either.
03:58Tyvus Powell had floated that out there.
03:59I'm like, are we – are we positive we'd be able to get that?
04:02Well, I think a lot of people have floated out the idea, but I think a lot of people don't
04:05believe that that would actually happen.
04:07I think they're very excited about the possibilities that they could have with a guy like Talon Green.
04:11So, you know, this is an interesting dance that you would do, but to entertain the conversation the way that
04:17so many have, I'll just come right out and say it.
04:20And it's not popular on the internet.
04:22If he comes out – if Deshaun were to go down for a couple of weeks and Shador were to
04:27go in and start, he'd have to play exceedingly better than Deshaun Watson to keep the job.
04:33I think we found out here of anything, there is a difference between keeping the fans happy and keeping the
04:39players happy.
04:40Have we not found that out here in the first month of the season?
04:43There's a difference between – I think it's gone to show you there is a complete difference.
04:48We said this all throughout preseason when you and I felt that Deshaun Watson would win the job.
04:53Why?
04:53And we stared in the face of a lot of criticism because they got to do what's best for the
04:5753.
04:58And he picked Deshaun Watson.
05:00It looked like a terrible decision.
05:01It looked like it was something that was going to bite them in the ass and make Todd Monk a
05:05one-and-done guy.
05:06And obviously things have changed with three and one.
05:08And I don't know when things are going to change for the other side.
05:10But going with it right now, you got to do what's best for the team.
05:14And if the team still feels like the veteran would give them a better chance after a three-game stretch
05:20with Shador, you're going back to the veteran.
05:22Now, if Shador goes out there and throws for 303 touchdowns and they win those games, yeah, let's have a
05:27conversation.
05:28But you're going back to Deshaun Watson.
05:30You know how – and I know how fans may want it to be, but they also know how I'll
05:35coach things.
05:36We don't need to insult ourselves and our own intelligence.
05:39You guys know how to coach things.
05:40Real Browns fans would know how to coach things.
05:42I just know that the one thing that you may be discounting that until it happens, we can't experience it.
05:49What would it look like if they're winning games with Shador Sanders and him being that personality that would just
05:59– you'd be transfixed on it.
06:01And his fan base would be leading the charge, and then we'd all be on the same page.
06:05We'd all be in agreement.
06:06Like, right now, we have big disagreements with his fan base.
06:09But if he played well and they're winning games –
06:11And you know me.
06:12Now – and they're in the playoff hut.
06:14Like, I do wonder if you'd get caught up a little bit more in that.
06:18Oh, you're talking to me, and you know how I am.
06:20I don't like to make people upset.
06:21I don't like it.
06:22I don't – like, you guys do this just to make – no, I don't make – I don't go
06:26out of my way to make people mad.
06:27I don't do it.
06:28I want everybody to be as happy as possible.
06:30You know that.
06:31So I would probably change my tune.
06:33But I'm telling you right now, if Kenny Carman were the head coach of the NFL – of an NFL
06:37football team,
06:38you and I both know how these guys think.
06:40We've been around enough coaches to know.
06:42Let's not insult the audience here.
06:44You know what Todd Munkin would do.
06:46I know what Todd Munkin would do.
06:47And you and I both know, if our name was on the door, what we would have to do.
06:51You and I are going back to Deshaun Watson, and so is Todd Munkin.
06:54You know that.
06:56So we can make grandiose statements.
06:59I don't know.
06:59I don't know that they would.
07:00Yes, you do.
07:00I don't know.
07:01You know Todd Munkin is going back to Deshaun Watson.
07:04I don't know.
07:05Yes, you do.
07:05Because Todd would now be looking at it going, well, I got the much younger guy who's actually definitely going
07:10to be here next year.
07:11If he were playing better, you don't care about next year.
07:14I'm trying to win now.
07:14I know, but in this hypothetical, they are winning in this hypothetical.
07:18Okay, but is he playing that much better than Deshaun?
07:21If he's playing that much better than Deshaun, then let's open up the door and have the conversation.
07:25I think it's close.
07:25I know everybody called Todd a liar in the preseason when he said he had two starting quarterbacks.
07:31But maybe then, at that point, he doesn't look like so much of a liar.
07:33If it's close, if it's close, you're still going back to Deshaun.
07:37You made your decision.
07:38I don't know, man.
07:39You thought one guy was better.
07:40You're going back to Deshaun Watson, 216-474-0092.
07:45You could say you don't know all you want if you want to keep the argument going.
07:49But you know deep down, I think you're lying to yourself.
07:52If your name's on the door and you have to make the decision, you know who you're picking.
07:56You know it.
07:57I think Shador makes it a lot easier to do that if he's playing well and they're winning.
08:02Okay.
08:04Brian in Twinsburg.
08:05Hello.
08:06Hey, guys.
08:07This kind of goes back to when you were talking on Monday.
08:10My opinion of this whole thing is, okay, you play the quarterback that gives you the best chance to win.
08:17Obviously, if Deshaun gets hurt, they're going to put in Sanders first.
08:21He's listed number two.
08:22If he plays well, great.
08:23If he doesn't, my opinion is they're going to go out and get a veteran if they're still in the
08:27hunt.
08:29Bottom line, they did it with Flacco.
08:32You can't trust Shador right now.
08:34If he plays well, great.
08:35But if Deshaun Watson comes back, I don't think it's a Wally Pipp situation.
08:40Unless he's going 400 yards.
08:43Exactly.
08:43Exactly.
08:44Like, he's got to put himself in a position.
08:46Like, if he were to start, like, yeah, I think we would like to see what Shador Sanders has because
08:51we'd like to go ceiling-wise.
08:53Right?
08:53Okay.
08:53And, Brian, go ahead.
08:54Go ahead.
08:55Real quick.
08:56Would you agree with me?
08:57If they, you know, whatever, the buy is what?
08:59Like, week eight or whatever?
09:00If they were six and two, do you think they would go for a vet to finish it out if
09:07Watson's out for the year?
09:12I don't know.
09:13I don't think they would.
09:14Because I don't think those vets fall off trees, and I don't think they want to give up more picks
09:17for their future.
09:18Like, I think they're stuck in a weird spot right now.
09:20I don't think anybody thought that they'd start off three and one, Brian, including them.
09:24All right.
09:25You know what I mean?
09:25Thank you very much for the call.
09:27And then, again, what vets out there?
09:30Like, Gardner Minshew has a hot hand for two weeks, and then things go straight to hell.
09:33We know how Gardner Minshew is.
09:35I mean, hell, he almost got us.
09:36He threw for, like, 400 yards once and nearly got us.
09:38We barely won.
09:39In this scenario, believe it or not, it's like the type of guy is Carson Wentz.
09:43He's shown he can actually do it now.
09:45And then it would go, what would you rather do for the betterment of your franchise?
09:48Would you rather go with the guy who's in his second year, or would you rather go with the guy
09:51who's going to be a journeyman?
09:53I mean, maybe you would want to do that.
09:55Maybe that's the case.
09:56But I think a lot of people go, okay, well, let's see what you really feel about Shador Sanders.
10:00Because if you're going to Carson Wentz, this Sanders stuff is done.
10:03We ain't doing that no more.
10:052-1-6-4-7-4-0-0-92.
10:07There's a boatload of people who want to get in on this.
10:09All right.
10:09I'll take, like, a couple more on this when we come back.
10:12Because we got a Guardians game today, damn it.
10:14All right.
10:15It's a must-win scenario, quite literally.
10:17If you don't win today, it's over.
10:19And it's either a smart move or something that Steven Vogt is going to hear about all winter long.
10:26And even further, if there's a lockout.
10:28Ken Carman, Anthony Lyman, let me ask you.
10:30Well, why is it so crazy to talk about who the backup is and whether they will play,
10:35when we all agreed that Deshaun Watson probably wasn't going to be able to hold on to the job all
10:41year
10:41because of either play or his physical ability?
10:45I understand.
10:45I think partly because of what I said on Monday, where I think it's very hard.
10:51You know, this is still fun.
10:53And I think a lot of people in the back of their minds are wondering if this thing is going
10:57to eventually
10:58get real, real quick and things aren't going to go where they are.
11:01Like, I think that a Browns fan is struggling with answering the question,
11:05are they good or are they off to a good start?
11:08Because there's differences.
11:09We see that a lot in baseball.
11:11But are they good or are they really good or are we just off to a really good start here?
11:15Will the bottom fall out here?
11:17And I think Browns fans are feeling that way.
11:19So you bring up a scenario that's troublesome to a Browns fan.
11:25They don't like to think about it because things are going really, really well right now.
11:28You know, we've got the Jets coming up on Sunday.
11:30And, you know, you even brought up in your own fears, like, man, are we overlooking the Jets?
11:33Are we getting over our skis?
11:34Got a young football team here.
11:36This is going to be a test of how serious they take things.
11:38You had a mini bye week.
11:39You got this time.
11:41Everybody's loving the Browns.
11:42You're shooting up the power rankings for a lot of teams.
11:47I mean, Pete Prisco has your top 15 now.
11:49Florio has your number 12 for crying out loud.
11:51I mean, that's a playoff team legitimately here.
11:54And I think so many folks are wondering how long is this going to last?
11:57So when you bring up a scenario like that, well, what would happen?
12:01It's like, oh, God, are we really doing this?
12:03Like, I think a lot of people feel that way.
12:05Yes, they have these conversations in the building.
12:08Without a doubt.
12:09Yes.
12:09But it's still going to be troublesome to a Browns fan.
12:12I mean, it's all the contingency stuff.
12:14And, hey, right now the way Deshaun Watson is playing, it's been uneven, but it's been
12:20good enough.
12:20And I spent, you know, Friday, Monday, bit of yesterday lobbying that he's been better
12:27than a lot of his peers, you know, around the league.
12:30Most guys that everybody has ahead of him.
12:31That's true.
12:32He's actually outplaying them.
12:33That's true.
12:34Still not, I'm not confusing it for elite quarterback play.
12:37It certainly hasn't been that.
12:38But he's growing in the offense.
12:41The question is, you know, how long can this last?
12:44Right now, like, if you were to poll Browns fans, what percentage of them think this is
12:49going to be his job for, you know, all 17 games?
12:53It's obviously much higher than it was.
12:56Yeah, I'd say it's probably in the realm of 40-60.
13:00Probably there.
13:01I'm 40% thinking it's his job for all 17.
13:05If it's not a majority opinion, then why is it crazy to talk about what could happen next?
13:10Just because they know it's, just because they talk about it in the building doesn't
13:13mean they always want to talk about it themselves.
13:15It is a troubling thing.
13:16Like, you're prepared.
13:17People don't like to sit there and talk about life.
13:20They don't like to talk about life insurance policies.
13:22They don't like to talk about things that aren't fun.
13:25People don't like to talk.
13:26Like, I brought up, like, when you have a...
13:27I listen to all sorts of podcasts about life insurance policies.
13:31It's amazing.
13:32No, but you're not fun.
13:33Man.
13:34I mean, yesterday was three hours on it.
13:35He's not fun.
13:37I think a lot of people go, yeah, Limey, you're sitting there listening about life insurance
13:41and things to do after you're dead.
13:43There's a whole world out there of entertainment.
13:45You guys are missing out.
13:45Tone would absolutely be thinking of something like that.
13:47But I think for a lot of people, like, hey, what's more fun?
13:50Planning for your future or going over to the casino?
13:52Going over to the casino.
13:53And the bronze at three and one feels like we just keep rolling and we're just, we're
13:58on a biscuit train with gravy wheels, man, or gravy train with biscuit wheels or whatever
14:02they say.
14:03Like, so it bothers them.
14:05Well, what precipitated the whole conversation was the thought that Dylan Gabriel did now
14:11have to make a decision in the next, you know, three weeks on what they're going to do with
14:15him or Taylor Greene.
14:16I don't know.
14:17Some people thought they could just, they could just cut him and he'd clear waivers and he'd
14:21get them back.
14:22I'm not so sure on that.
14:24I'm not sure either.
14:25I don't think they're sure either.
14:26Typhus Powell had floated that out there.
14:27I'm like, are we, are we positive?
14:29Well, I think a lot of people have floated out the idea, but I think a lot of people don't
14:33believe that that would actually happen.
14:35I think they're very excited about the possibilities that they could have with a guy like Taylor
14:39and Greene.
14:39So, you know, this is a interesting dance that you would do, but to entertain the conversation
14:45the way that so many have, I'll just come right out and say it.
14:48And it's not popular on the internet.
14:50If he comes out, if, if, if Deshaun were to go down for a couple of weeks and Shador were
14:55to go in and start, he'd have to play exceedingly better than Deshaun Watson to keep the job.
15:01I think we found out here of anything.
15:04There is a difference between keeping the fans happy and keeping the players happy.
15:08Have we not found that out here in the first month of the season?
15:11There's a difference between, I think it's gone to show you, there is a complete difference.
15:16We said this all throughout preseason when you and I felt that Deshaun Watson would win
15:20the job.
15:21Why?
15:22And we stared in the face of a lot of criticism because they got to do what's best for the
15:2653.
15:26And he picked Deshaun Watson.
15:28It looked like a terrible decision.
15:29It looked like it was something that was going to bite them in the ass and make Todd Munkin
15:33a one and done guy.
15:34And obviously things have changed.
15:36They're three and one.
15:36And I don't know when things are going to change for the other side, but going with
15:39it right now, you got to do what's best for the team.
15:42And if the team still feels like the veteran would give them a better chance after a three
15:48game stretch with Shador, you're going back to the veteran.
15:50Now, if Shador goes out there and throws for 303 touchdowns and they win those games.
15:54Yeah.
15:54Let's have a conversation, but you're going back to Deshaun Watson.
15:59You know how in, I know how fans may want it to be, but they also know how coach things
16:04don't,
16:05we don't need to insult ourselves in our own intelligence.
16:07You guys know how to coach say real Browns fans would know how to coach things.
16:10I just know that the one thing that you may be discounting that until it happens, we can't
16:16experience it.
16:17What would it look like if they're winning games with Shador Sanders and him being that,
16:24that, that, that personality that would just, you'd be transfixed on it.
16:29And his fan base would be leading the charge.
16:31And then we'd all be on the same page.
16:33We'd all, we'd all be in agreement.
16:34Like right now we have big disagreements with his fan base, but if he played well and they're
16:39winning games and you know me now, and they're in the playoff hut.
16:42Like I do wonder if you'd get caught up a little bit more.
16:46You're talking to me and you know how I am.
16:48I don't like to make people upset.
16:49I don't like it.
16:50I don't like you guys do this just to make, no, I don't make, I don't go out of my
16:54way
16:54to make people mad.
16:55I don't do it.
16:56I want everybody to be as happy as possible.
16:58You know that.
16:59So I would probably change my tune, but I'm telling you right now, if Kenny Carmen were
17:03the head coach of the NFL, of an NFL football team, I, you and I both know how these guys
17:08think we've been around enough coaches to know, let's not insult the audience here.
17:12You know what Todd Munkin would do.
17:14I know what Todd Munkin would do.
17:15And you and I both know if our name was on the door, what we would have to do.
17:19You and I are going back to Deshaun Watson and so is Todd Munkin.
17:22You know that.
17:24So we can, we can make grandiose statements.
17:27I don't know that they would.
17:28Yes, you do.
17:29I don't know.
17:29Yes, you do.
17:30You know, Todd Munkin is going back to Deshaun Watson.
17:32I don't know.
17:33Yes, you do.
17:34Because Todd would now be looking at it going, well, I got the much younger guy who's actually
17:37definitely going to be here next year.
17:39If he were playing better that you don't care about next year.
17:42I'm trying to win now.
17:42I know, but in this hypothetical, they are winning in this hypothetical.
17:46Okay, but is he playing that much better than Deshaun?
17:49If he's playing that much better than Deshaun, then let's open up the door and have the conversation.
17:53I think it's close.
17:53I know everybody called Todd a liar in the preseason when he said he had two starting quarterbacks.
17:59But maybe then, at that point, he doesn't look like so much of a liar.
18:02If it's close, if it's close, you're still going back to Deshaun.
18:05You made your decision.
18:07I don't know, man.
18:07You thought one guy was better.
18:09You're going back to Deshaun Watson.
18:12216-474-0092.
18:13You could say you don't know all you want if you want to keep the argument going.
18:18But you know deep down, I think you're lying to yourself.
18:20If your name's on the door and you have to make the decision, you know who you're picking.
18:24You know it.
18:25I think Shador makes it a lot easier to do that if he's playing well and they're winning.
18:30Okay.
18:32Brian in Twinsburg.
18:33Hello.
18:34Hey, guys.
18:36This kind of goes back to when you were talking on Monday.
18:38My opinion of this whole thing is, okay, you play the quarterback that gives you the best chance to win.
18:45Obviously, if Deshaun gets hurt, they're going to put in Sanders first.
18:49He's listed number two.
18:50If he plays well, great.
18:51If he doesn't, my opinion is they're going to go out and get a veteran if they're still in the
18:55hunt.
18:57Bottom line, they did it with Flacco.
19:00You can't trust Shador right now.
19:02If he plays well, great.
19:04But I'm not – if Deshaun Watson comes back, I don't think it's a Wally Pipps situation unless he's going
19:10400 yards.
19:11Exactly.
19:12Exactly.
19:12Like, he's got to put himself in a position.
19:14Like, if he were to start – like, yeah, I think we would like to see what Shador Sanders has
19:19because we'd like to go ceiling-wise, right?
19:21Okay.
19:22And, Brian, go ahead.
19:23Go ahead.
19:23Real quick.
19:24Would you agree with me?
19:25If they – you know, whatever – the bye is what?
19:28Like, week eight or whatever, if they were six and two, do you think they would go for a vet
19:33to finish it out if Watson's out for the year?
19:40I don't know.
19:41I don't think they would because I don't think those vets fall off trees and I don't think they want
19:44to give up more picks for their future.
19:46Like, I think they're stuck in a weird spot right now.
19:48I don't think anybody thought that they'd start off three and one, Brian, including them.
19:52All right.
19:53You know what I mean?
19:53Thank you very much for the call.
19:55And then, again, what vets – what vets out there?
19:58Like, Gardner Minshew has a hot hand for two weeks and then things go straight to hell.
20:02We know how Gardner Minshew is.
20:03I mean, hell, he almost got us.
20:04He threw for like 400 yards once and nearly got us.
20:06We barely won.
20:07In this scenario, believe it or not, it's like the type of guy is Carson Wentz.
20:11Okay.
20:12Because he's shown he can actually do it now.
20:13And then it would go, what would you rather do for the betterment of your franchise?
20:16Would you rather go with the guy who's in his second year or would you rather go with the guy
20:19who's going to be a journeyman?
20:21I mean, maybe you would want to do that.
20:23Maybe that's the case.
20:24But I think a lot of people go, okay, well, let's see what you really feel about Shador Sanders.
20:28Because if you're going to Carson Wentz, the Sanders stuff is done.
20:31You ain't doing that no more.
20:332-1-6-4-7-4-0-0-92.
20:35There's a boatload of people who want to get in on this.
20:37All right.
20:37I'll take like a couple more on this when we come back.
20:41Because we got a Guardians game today, damn it.
20:43All right.
20:43It's a must-win scenario, quite literally.
20:45If you don't win today, it's over.
20:47And it's either a smart move or something that Steven Vogt is going to hear about all winter long.
20:54And even further, if there's a lockout.
20:56Ken Carman, Anthony Lyme on the.