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00:00This program is unsuitable for young children.
00:40Beyond the Tape will be back after these messages.
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02:38To be continued...
03:00...to pay up to $22,500 in fines and lose your license permanently.
03:06No? Then don't drink and drive.
03:10A message from the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.
03:27Good evening, Trinidad and Tobago, and to our international audience,
03:30and of course, our brothers and sisters in Grenada.
03:33This is Beyond the Tape. I'm your host, Whitney Husband.
03:36Now, today is Wednesday. It's the middle of the week,
03:37so that means we're getting ready for Legally Speaking Wednesdays.
03:40And with that being said, the gentleman who is always here and willing to guide us
03:44when it comes to the laws of the land of Trinidad and Tobago,
03:47and he's also the Director of Policy and Support at the Ministry of Homeland Security.
03:52We have our attorney at law and director, Mr. Ali, here with us.
03:56Good evening to you, sir.
03:57Well, thank you very much, Whitney.
03:59I always enjoy listening to your introduction, and I always tell you that,
04:02and I will always tell you that.
04:03Yes, you do, you do.
04:04Well, thank you very much, you know, for a warm welcome.
04:07You know, nice to see you as always.
04:09Hope all is well with you and, you know, your loved ones and...
04:13I appreciate that.
04:14...and the other associates.
04:15Happy to hear that.
04:16Similarly, Jackie, hope all is well with you.
04:19And our family and Beyond the Tape, good afternoon to you as well.
04:23My law enforcement colleagues, you know, and also from the private industry,
04:26the security industry, good afternoon to you as well.
04:29And most importantly, Tim, the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago.
04:32You know, it's always a pleasure and privilege to greet you.
04:35I'm not seeing you, but I'm certainly that you are here, there, and everywhere,
04:40you know, tuned in to this program,
04:42and I want to thank you very much for your support to this program.
04:46Beyond the Tape, very significant program, very important program.
04:49I know on this program, Whitney, a lot of information,
04:51you know, flow both ways.
04:54And, you know, as I always indicated,
04:57that everywhere that we go,
04:59persons are always willing to come up, you know, for advice,
05:01you know, give words of inspiration.
05:03To my colleagues in the Ministry of Homeland Security
05:06and other government ministries, state agencies, non-state actors,
05:10you know, I had a very, very fruitful meeting today.
05:13Actually, as a matter of fact, two fruitful meetings today
05:15with reference to discussion of a national parenting seminar continuation
05:19and also some special focus on parents who may have children
05:26that require special intervention.
05:28So, you know, two, you know, very important discussions today,
05:31and I want to thank all those stakeholders, they know themselves,
05:33for continuing to put the public interest first
05:37and put the parents of Trinidad and Tobago at the forefront
05:40to receive all the expert advice,
05:42all the tools that are available
05:47to ensure that you continue to be a good parent,
05:49especially now where our children,
05:52if they are not at the hands of criminal activities,
05:54we've seen that some are in the area of drowning,
05:59you know, in the waterways and so forth, very significant matters.
06:01So, and then we are going into a period of vacation,
06:05and it's important for us to recognize the importance
06:07of supervising these children properly at all material times.
06:11So, as always, it's a pleasure to be here,
06:12and I look forward to support you the best that I can with me.
06:14Yes, of course. Now, we are seeing a lot of legal jargon being used,
06:18and many persons may not understand what it means, right?
06:23So, words like sedition, and we are seeing habeas corpus,
06:27and other jargons that's legally used.
06:30Yes.
06:31What does that mean?
06:33Well, thank you very much for that question,
06:34and let me look at the issue of a writ of habeas corpus.
06:37I know that has been in the public domain over the last couple of days.
06:39Yes.
06:40And it's a very simple process.
06:42Yes. Persons who are arrested by the police,
06:47whether in the course of an investigation,
06:50and, you know, to be specific, in the course of an investigation,
06:53police will have to, maybe, require to arrest, to conduct an inquiry,
06:57to do searches, and the whole process of gathering evidence.
07:00And to ensure that there's a proper balance,
07:04a writ of habeas corpus is a judicial remedy,
07:07where the person who is detained, the detainee,
07:10through his attorney, can petition the high court
07:13to review the circumstances surrounding the detention.
07:16Okay.
07:16From the point of arrest, and every second,
07:19and I want to repeat that,
07:20from the point of arrest where your liberty is deprived,
07:23your freedom of movement,
07:23every second that goes by must be justified.
07:29And the judicial intervention is to identify
07:31and to be able to look at the circumstances surrounding the arrest and detention
07:35to ensure that it is well grounded in law
07:39and it is justified.
07:41And if, in fact, persons are arrested and detained on investigation,
07:44there's progress in the investigation.
07:45So, it's a remedy to ensure that no one, liberty,
07:51is deprived without due process and in keeping with the rule of law.
07:54So, that is there deliberately to ensure that the state actions
07:59are always under review by the jurisdiction of the high court.
08:02So, that's in a nutshell exactly what a writ of habeas corpus entails
08:05and we know that we would have heard or mention was made of that
08:09over the last couple of days in the public domain.
08:11And sedition, where are we with that?
08:12Now, that area, when we talk about sedition,
08:14we have in our law books the Sedition Act.
08:19And sedition basically connotates where persons are making statements
08:25that has the intention to engender hostility
08:31or to incite hostility between two or more groups
08:36or cross-sections of the community.
08:38So, you know, they have quoted, quote-unquote, hate speech.
08:42So, there's a Sedition Act that talks about sedition's intention
08:45and may I say that in recent times,
08:48the Sedition Act was tested all the way to the Privy Council
08:51to see whether that law, that sedition law, is still relevant.
08:55In these times.
08:56And you would have seen in recent times
08:57that how relevant the Sedition Law is to ensure that
09:00while you may have a freedom of expression and free speech,
09:03that should not be taken to engender hostility
09:05or to engender violence between two or more groups
09:08in Canada and to be one.
09:09There's a regulation in the state of emergency regulation
09:12that is very similar to how the Sedition Offense,
09:17or the Sedition Act, is worded.
09:19And that section has been used frequently in recent times,
09:22if not for arrest, but to initiate criminal proceedings.
09:25And that section is a section that talks about making statements
09:28that are prejudicial to the public safety and security.
09:31Regardless if we're in an SOE or not.
09:32So no, that section that I'm speaking about
09:36under the Emergency Powers Regulation
09:37was specific for during the state of emergency.
09:40Any person who make a statement,
09:43whether oral or otherwise,
09:45key, oral or otherwise,
09:46and that came here posted on social media.
09:48Yes.
09:49That is prejudicial.
09:50Caps on.
09:50That is correct.
09:51Prejudicial to likely to prejudice public safety,
09:53meaning that putting a group of persons
09:55or a cross-section of the community
09:57at risk of violence or harm,
10:00commits an offence under the emergency regulations.
10:02Out of the state of emergency regulations,
10:03you have the Sedition Act,
10:05which governs everyday activity.
10:07So I just wanted to make that comparison
10:08with the Sedition Act in the law books,
10:10an act that is passed by Parliament,
10:12and the Emergency Powers Regulation,
10:14which is an executive regulation,
10:15executive powers,
10:17in that particular regulation,
10:18is also that particular offence
10:20to ensure that the freedom of expression
10:23is not abuse or prejudice public safety and security.
10:26And may I say, to balance it,
10:28this is in no way,
10:29and as an officer of the court,
10:31in no way extended
10:33to deprive someone
10:35of their constitutional right
10:36of freedom of expression,
10:38but it's to ensure
10:39that your freedom of expression
10:41is regulated
10:42when it comes,
10:45or I should say,
10:46when you are going to exercise
10:47your free speech
10:48to create mayhem
10:49and to threaten public safety and security.
10:51So you can speak,
10:52you can express your views,
10:57but be responsible
10:58in expressing your views.
10:59Your views should not be one
11:00that's going to influence violence
11:02or incite violence
11:03or be prejudicial to public safety.
11:05That's the point
11:05I want to send home this afternoon.
11:06Now that links me now
11:07to defamation.
11:09Well, let me take you right away.
11:10So we were discussing
11:12in a criminal jurisdiction
11:13those,
11:14that sedition
11:15and that prejudicial statement
11:16or statement oral
11:18or otherwise prejudicial
11:19to public safety,
11:19we were speaking
11:20in a criminal jurisdiction
11:21where those matters
11:22are criminal in nature.
11:24When we're speaking defamation,
11:25we are going into the civil realm
11:27where if someone makes a statement
11:28that is derogatory,
11:30meaning that it causes
11:31the average person
11:33to think differently
11:34about that person,
11:35in other words,
11:35to lower the thinking
11:36of the person,
11:37that you will have
11:38a cause of action
11:40and defamation,
11:41you can take that person,
11:42make an application,
11:43file a suit before the court
11:45to bring that matter up
11:46to be able to see
11:47whether in fact
11:48they may be worthy
11:49of an apology,
11:50they may be entitled
11:51to the damages
11:52because repetition is injured
11:53based on the statements
11:55that persons are making.
11:56So you have
11:56the criminal jurisdiction
11:57with freedom of expression
11:58where we can attract
11:59criminal offenses,
12:00very serious offenses
12:01and if there's
12:02derogatory statements
12:03from a defamation context,
12:04you have civil remedies
12:05where you can instruct
12:06an attorney,
12:07they proceed to the high court
12:08and they look at the statements
12:09to see whether in fact
12:09the statements were justified,
12:11whether it was a complete defense
12:12or fair comment,
12:13whatever,
12:13or if it's not,
12:15the court may order
12:15damages be imposed against you
12:17or you may have to issue
12:18public apologies
12:19and there are many other remedies
12:20that may be available.
12:21Or financial.
12:22Well,
12:23compensation.
12:24Damages,
12:24correct.
12:25And depending on the repetition,
12:27your level in society,
12:30you ought to be very careful.
12:31As a matter of fact,
12:32if I,
12:34in recent times,
12:35I don't want to single out
12:36any particular matter,
12:37but in recent times,
12:38we have seen
12:40many cases
12:40going before the court
12:41for defamation
12:42and you've seen
12:43how the court is pronouncing
12:45where defamation is going to.
12:45And as verbal
12:46or written,
12:47that's verbal
12:48or otherwise,
12:49as you say,
12:50in legal terms.
12:51So you could have slandering
12:52and you could have defamation
12:53which is slandering
12:54and derogatory statements
12:57in a more solid
12:59or written format.
13:00So you could look at it
13:01in both contexts.
13:02Slandering,
13:02just orally bad talking someone.
13:04Yes.
13:04And it's not accurate.
13:07There's no facts.
13:08It's not factual, sorry.
13:10And it is just,
13:11it geared towards
13:12injuring someone's repetition.
13:13And then there's the
13:16express statement
13:17like, for example,
13:18you're on a social media platform
13:19where it's permanent.
13:20Yes.
13:20It's published in a newspaper.
13:22Those are more significant matters
13:23that, you know,
13:24cut carry on
13:25in the area of defamation as well.
13:26So two very significant areas,
13:28criminal jurisdiction,
13:29civil,
13:30and hence why
13:30I'm happy you raised her this afternoon
13:32that we must be responsible.
13:33You have a freedom of expression.
13:35Hold on there.
13:35That's yours.
13:36We are fought for that.
13:38But at the same time,
13:39that do not give you
13:40the power and authority
13:41to behave how you want.
13:42And let me give a simple example.
13:44If we say we have
13:45freedom of expression,
13:46Yeah.
13:47could you imagine
13:48that the simplicity
13:49of our obscene language
13:50is still in the law books?
13:51Of course,
13:51it's their $500.
13:53That's the point I'm making.
13:53So you have the freedom
13:54of expression,
13:55but yet the law
13:56has criminalized obscene language.
13:57To ensure that,
13:58because obscene language
13:59can provoke persons
14:01to be even more
14:02violent.
14:03Correct.
14:03So hence why
14:04what the law
14:05is trying to protect.
14:06So my citizenry,
14:08you have the freedom
14:08of expression,
14:09exercise it
14:10to hold public authorities
14:12accountable,
14:12but be responsible
14:13in your dissemination
14:14and ensure
14:15that you are
14:16at all material times
14:17acting reasonably
14:18based on facts
14:19and well-seeded positions.
14:22Let me ask you
14:22this then quickly.
14:23When an officer
14:24is in uniform
14:25that may use obscene language
14:26to a civilian,
14:27what could a civilian do?
14:29Well, remember,
14:30if a police officer
14:31is not above the law
14:33and that police officer
14:34also should be guided
14:35by the law.
14:36So if he or she
14:37uses obscene language
14:38against a civilian,
14:39like in anything else,
14:40that's a breach
14:41of the criminal law.
14:41So you expect
14:42to be using your avenues
14:43to be able to report
14:44that police officer
14:45both from a criminal context
14:47and also even
14:48from a disciplinary context
14:50in terms of bringing
14:51the police service
14:52into disrepute
14:52by your conduct.
14:53So you have
14:54your remedies as well.
14:55Yeah.
14:56And finally,
14:56the act of mens rea.
14:58What is that?
14:59That's a Latin term.
15:00In crime,
15:01when you're talking
15:01about elements of a crime,
15:02most of the times
15:03you have what they call
15:04an actus rea element.
15:05Actus rea element
15:06is what they call
15:07the physical act.
15:08So for example,
15:09if you have murder,
15:10the unlawful killing,
15:12the actual killing
15:13is the actus rea element.
15:14And then you have
15:15the mens rea.
15:17That's correct.
15:18Premeditated?
15:19Well, not premeditated.
15:20The mens rea is
15:21where you have
15:22the requisite intention.
15:24So you kill the person
15:25and at the material time
15:26of the unlawful killing,
15:27you had the intention
15:28to kill the person
15:29or the intention
15:30to cause
15:30previous bodily harm.
15:31So that mens rea
15:33calls for
15:35at the material time
15:36of the unlawful act,
15:37they must coincide
15:38in order to have
15:39an offense.
15:40Otherwise,
15:40if you have
15:40an unlawful killing,
15:42case in point,
15:43and the person
15:44is not a person
15:45who is seen,
15:46then the requisite mens rea
15:49could be argued
15:50as not being present
15:51because that person
15:51didn't appreciate
15:52what he or she
15:52was engaging in
15:53and hence why
15:54persons who are
15:57require special need
15:58and care,
15:59for example,
16:00and I don't mean
16:01to create any stigma,
16:02but persons who may be
16:03like, for example,
16:04suffering with an abnormality
16:05of mind,
16:05that is why they require
16:07so close supervision
16:08because if they injure
16:09someone,
16:10that mens rea
16:11may not be available
16:11and hence why
16:12you need to be able
16:12to continue to supervise them
16:13so they do not commit
16:14an act.
16:15So the unlawful act
16:16is committed
16:16but there is no intention.
16:17An intention cannot be formed
16:18because of their abnormality
16:20of mind.
16:20Would self-defense fall under that?
16:22Neither
16:22because what you're looking at
16:23is that that mens rea
16:24now is negative
16:25in terms of that child
16:27or that adult
16:27who is not properly
16:28developed here
16:29so they don't have
16:29appreciation
16:30from a mental context.
16:32So yes,
16:32you have the unlawful act
16:33but there is no intention.
16:35So hence why
16:35those two elements
16:36are very significant
16:37when you are talking
16:38about a crime.
16:39So a crime,
16:39most of the instances
16:41require both elements
16:42to be present
16:42at the time.
16:43Any moment.
16:43That's correct.
16:44They must go inside
16:45at the moment.
16:46That's right.
16:47Woo!
16:47You took us
16:48to law school there.
16:49Yeah, yeah.
16:49I guess we had to bring it down
16:50so at least persons
16:51could understand
16:52when we hear
16:53the legal jargon
16:55that is not something
16:56that flies over your head.
16:58We're here to educate
16:58very important.
16:59Now there,
17:00we are seeing,
17:01we mentioned this yesterday,
17:03Mr. Ali,
17:04where we're seeing
17:05concerning a number
17:06of amounts
17:07of stabbing incidents
17:08taking place
17:08and in this one here,
17:09this is only yesterday
17:11we spoke about this
17:12and a stabbing
17:13recorded earlier today
17:14and this was posted
17:15on social media
17:16where there was
17:17alleged fatal stabbing
17:19that took place
17:19at Mount St. George
17:20in Tobago
17:21and condolences
17:23to the family here
17:24but it is really disturbing now
17:28where yes,
17:29we're seeing the gun violence
17:30which is another side of it
17:31that we are trying to control
17:32but now persons are seeking
17:35a knife,
17:36a blade,
17:38anything to intimately
17:40harm an individual
17:41and stabbing
17:42is one where
17:43it's an intimate act.
17:44Well, you know,
17:46I'm not fully aware
17:47of the true facts
17:48of this matter
17:49but just as you indicated
17:50quite rightly,
17:51you know,
17:53when someone
17:54is in that moment,
17:56that heated moment,
17:58any instrumental object
17:59can be used
18:00as a weapon
18:01at that stage.
18:01In this case,
18:02you have a table,
18:03a knife
18:03that may have been
18:04what may have been available
18:05at the point in time.
18:06So,
18:07that's the instrument
18:09for the crime
18:10but as you indicated,
18:11I'm not aware of the facts
18:12but, you know,
18:12we have also factored in
18:14where when you hear
18:14about stabbing
18:15and you look at the parties
18:17involved,
18:17sometimes in a domestic situation
18:18where that crime of passion,
18:21you know,
18:21conflict,
18:22you know,
18:22probably a level
18:23of intoxication.
18:24So,
18:24many things can,
18:25you know,
18:25be present
18:27in these circumstances
18:27but again,
18:29whether it's a firearm,
18:30whether it's a knife,
18:32whether it's a blunt object
18:34or what have you,
18:35crime and criminality
18:37continues to,
18:38you know,
18:38plague the land
18:40and, you know,
18:40probably when you look
18:41at those situations,
18:42what would be sad,
18:43Whitney,
18:43is that perhaps
18:44those persons
18:45who are involved,
18:46if in fact
18:47it's a domestic situation,
18:48I'm just saying,
18:49there may have been
18:50early signs
18:50with reference
18:51to something happening
18:52between these two persons
18:53and the question is,
18:53other persons
18:54may have known,
18:55the question is,
18:56what did you do?
18:57What sort of support
18:58that you try to offer
18:59to that group?
19:00Or even the persons themselves
19:03now end up in conflict,
19:05breach the criminal law
19:05but there are probably
19:06mechanisms
19:07that could have been applied
19:08to be able to avoid that
19:09so you have basically
19:11opened the playing field
19:12to say,
19:13listen,
19:13this is a story.
19:15If you are going
19:16through a difficult time,
19:18whether it be anxiety,
19:19depression, stress
19:20and we know that
19:21we are in the 1st of July
19:22we just ended
19:23mental health for men
19:24in June
19:25and in May,
19:26the mental health month,
19:28we're hearing a lot
19:29of discussion
19:30on mental health
19:30and well-being.
19:31You are not on your own.
19:34Seek,
19:35and I use the word
19:36counsel in a formal way
19:37but you can tell someone
19:39who you trust
19:39in your family
19:40and say,
19:40listen,
19:40all is not well with me.
19:41I'm having this problem.
19:42Speak,
19:43talk about it.
19:44You might get some advice
19:44and it might just get you
19:46out of the situation.
19:47Don't peddle on this situation
19:49for yourself
19:50because that can cause you
19:51to go down an area
19:53that there may be no coming back
19:54from that particular area.
19:55So look for help,
19:57seek help,
19:58close within
19:59if there are persons
20:00in your family
20:00and if you have the means
20:02and you have to seek professional
20:03well then don't be afraid
20:04to seek professional help
20:05because we know with me
20:06all is not well.
20:07Yes,
20:08all is not well.
20:09There may be many different things
20:10that are,
20:10and it's not only crime
20:12and criminality
20:13but it may be economic situations.
20:14Correct.
20:14It may be relationship issues
20:17and God knows
20:18how many other matters
20:19that can cause you
20:20anxiety,
20:21depression
20:22and so forth.
20:23So look for help,
20:24get help
20:24but thank you for raising
20:25those issues this afternoon.
20:27All right,
20:27we are entering
20:27a brand new month right now.
20:28Let's take a look
20:29at our SOE update
20:30as of July 1, 2026.
20:34Number of operations
20:358,628.
20:37Number of targets
20:38priority offenders
20:392,388.
20:42Searches conducted
20:433,477.
20:45Traffic operations
20:465,243.
20:48Total persons arrested
20:503,849.
20:52Total persons charged
20:54933.
20:56Firearms recovered
20:57with seeing increase
20:57with the pistols
20:58a total of 216.
21:01Ammunition recovered
21:02we're seeing increase
21:02with the 9mm
21:03giving us a total
21:04of 3,890.
21:07And dangerous drug sees
21:08we're seeing an increase
21:09with cannabis
21:09and cocaine.
21:11Mr. Ali?
21:12Well, as always, Whitney,
21:13you know,
21:13when I see those figures
21:14in red,
21:15it means that the statistics
21:17continue to grow,
21:19if I should use that
21:20as an appropriate word.
21:21and that can only grow
21:22with the input
21:23from members of the public
21:25who are providing
21:26intelligence,
21:26whether through
21:27anonymous channels,
21:28whether through
21:28trusted police officers
21:30or other law enforcement agencies.
21:31And also the diligent
21:32work of the law enforcement,
21:34both police
21:34and other support agencies
21:35to ensure
21:36that we are seizing
21:37the rifles,
21:38the ammunition,
21:39the dangerous drug
21:39and bringing it
21:40over the streets.
21:40I always advocate
21:41that, you know,
21:43I would like to see
21:44that, you know,
21:45deep efforts
21:46to be able to
21:47arrest and prosecute
21:49persons,
21:49whether they're
21:50in actual possession
21:50or constructive possession
21:52of these matters
21:53that we are finding
21:54because it's great
21:55to find them,
21:56but also we want
21:57to find them
21:57with the persons
21:58who are responsible
21:59for the concealing,
22:00the transportation,
22:01the possession
22:01and all these other matters.
22:02So, but all in all,
22:03I salute the efforts
22:04and let's continue
22:05to be committed,
22:07persevere
22:07to ensure
22:08Trinidad and Tobago
22:09as a safe
22:09and secure
22:10country.
22:11All right.
22:12Let's take a look
22:12at what's making
22:13today's headlines.
22:47And those are your stories
22:48making today's headlines.
22:49Your mama,
22:49you can give us a call
22:50at 623-1711
22:52extension 1996
22:53and 1997.
22:55We'll be back.
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23:31celebrating the power
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23:34Featuring a vibrant mix
23:35of songs that comfort
23:36and inspire,
23:37this concert reminds us
23:38that life's most meaningful
23:40moments are the ones
23:41we share.
23:42Tickets are $250,
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23:52Don't miss it.
23:56Good day, Trader Antibig.
23:58A safer nation
23:59begins with you
24:00standing up,
24:02speaking out,
24:02and doing your part.
24:04As your commission of police,
24:06I am prepared
24:07to do my part.
24:08Are you prepared
24:09to do your part?
24:10Get on board.
24:11Are you on board?
24:12I am Bishop Ezekiel Clark,
24:15President of the
24:15Coover Police Station
24:17Community Council,
24:18and I am proud
24:19to say that
24:20I am on board
24:21with the Trinidad
24:22and Tobago Police Service
24:24in their fight
24:25against crime
24:26in Trinidad and Tobago.
24:27I am Panis Dien Galston,
24:29and I am Panis Johan Chakry,
24:31and crime prevention
24:32is everybody's business.
24:36Hi, I am Sajuna Kadir,
24:39Attorney at Law
24:39and Team Lead
24:40for the Attorneys
24:41for the TTPS
24:42Community Justice Clinic.
24:43We support
24:44the Trinidad and Tobago
24:45Police Service
24:46in the fight
24:46against crime.
24:47Crime prevention
24:48is everybody's business.
24:50I am Shiraz Khan,
24:51I am a farmer.
24:53I support the TTPS
24:54in the fight
24:55against crime.
24:56My name is
24:56Maldip Maraj,
24:57President of
24:58Bishop Ezekiel
24:58Waters Chamber
24:59of Industrial and Commerce.
25:01Crime fighting
25:01is everybody's business.
25:03We are all in board.
25:18Welcome, Mark.
25:19If you're now joining us,
25:19we have our attorney
25:21and director
25:22who is here with us
25:23Legally Speaking Wednesdays.
25:24We head to the phone,
25:259th caller.
25:26Good evening.
25:27Good evening to two of my
25:29favorite presenters.
25:30Good evening to you, sir.
25:32Ms. Charlie,
25:34I like how you open the program
25:36because I had a
25:37put-in question
25:38in that state's subject.
25:41Soe and habeas corpus.
25:45Is it the same
25:47habeas corpus
25:48that you use
25:49in the normal
25:51criminal activity
25:52as you use
25:53in the Soe?
25:54And what power
25:55does the minister have
25:57which is
25:57step three
25:58Soe
26:00and
26:01habeas corpus
26:02because I have been
26:04told a little bit
26:05differently
26:06but I see
26:07you did not
26:07go wrong
26:08into that area.
26:09So can you
26:10kindly
26:11explain
26:11a little bit more
26:13because even
26:13if the court
26:14says to bring
26:16the person before
26:17I think
26:18I'm not sure
26:19the minister
26:20has the authority
26:21to say
26:21I am not bringing him.
26:23Please verify.
26:25Thank you, Kola.
26:27Kola, I want to thank you
26:28very much for your
26:30a very sensitive
26:32position that you
26:33have adopted
26:35and I'm happy
26:36that you are aware
26:36that I was very
26:38responsible
26:38and calculated
26:39in terms of
26:40how I explained
26:42the rift
26:43of habeas corpus.
26:45Because of the
26:46sensitivities
26:46around this matter
26:48and because of
26:49the multiple hats
26:49that I wear
26:51while I would love
26:51to respond to you
26:52and speak on it
26:53in depth
26:55I am
26:56restricted in terms
26:57of what I see
26:57at this point in time
26:58to ensure that
26:59there is no prejudice
27:00to any office
27:01or any party
27:02in terms of
27:02how we go forward.
27:03So, I hope that
27:04that's a reasonable
27:05response to you
27:05at this time.
27:07We have another caller.
27:08Caller, good evening.
27:10Hello, good day.
27:11Hi, good evening.
27:13Hi.
27:13How are you?
27:14Good evening, Mr.
27:15Husband.
27:15Good evening, Corporal Ali.
27:17How are you all going?
27:18All right.
27:19Good afternoon to you.
27:20We are fine.
27:21What about you?
27:22I'm okay, Mr. Ali.
27:24I'm viewing the TV screen
27:25right now, sir.
27:27So, I'm happy to hear
27:29firstly, I'm happy to hear
27:30that you, Corporal Ali,
27:32and you, Mr. Husband,
27:33you all are fine.
27:34I'm happy to hear that.
27:35I'm happy to hear that, right?
27:37Mm-hmm.
27:38Corporal Ali,
27:39I will keep it brief, sir,
27:40and I mean this
27:41with the utmost respect
27:43to you as a person,
27:45as a citizen of Trinidad
27:47and Tobago.
27:48I am a citizen of Trinidad
27:49and Tobago as well, sir.
27:52You could probably tell us
27:54how long you have been
27:55on this program, officer.
27:59When will we see the episode?
28:03When will we see the date?
28:05When you all can come
28:07on the program and say,
28:09we are happy to advise.
28:11There have been zero incidents
28:14throughout the entirety
28:15of Trinidad and Tobago.
28:17And I don't think
28:18that is unreasonable, sir.
28:21because, you know,
28:22the CTPS
28:23is an organization
28:24that has been in force
28:27for, I think,
28:2870 years now.
28:31You all have districts
28:32and communities.
28:34Honestly, like,
28:35are you all
28:37visiting communities
28:38frequently?
28:39Are you all patrolling?
28:40Let me use you a patrol.
28:42Are you all getting
28:43to know the person
28:44in communities
28:45once a week,
28:47twice a week?
28:49Spending,
28:49spending, let's say,
28:51two hours,
28:52three hours
28:54a day
28:55or two days
28:56a week
28:56in a community?
28:58I'm not an officer
28:59and I wouldn't
29:02try to overstep
29:03my boundaries,
29:04but in all honesty,
29:06corporately,
29:06let's be real.
29:07Let's be real.
29:08Let's be real.
29:09How long
29:10we will keep doing
29:11this for?
29:13You know,
29:13I mean,
29:14come on,
29:14come on.
29:16So I will keep it
29:17brief,
29:17and I'm not upset.
29:19I'm just being honest,
29:21and I'm hoping,
29:23I'm hoping to inspire
29:24that genuine honesty
29:27within you,
29:28officer.
29:30If I have,
29:31as I close,
29:32as I close,
29:32if I have to be honest
29:34with you,
29:34not just you alone,
29:35but all I do the programs
29:37every day,
29:38if I have to be honest,
29:39I really not believe
29:41in anything
29:42you all say
29:43at all,
29:44because we still
29:46deal with issues
29:48in our communities
29:49every single day.
29:51So how are we
29:52to believe
29:53what you all say to us?
29:55Thank you so much
29:56for the opportunity
29:57to contribute,
29:58and I'm listening
29:59to your honest speaker.
30:04Thank you very much,
30:06Kola,
30:06and, you know,
30:07I'm happy.
30:08You know,
30:08this is,
30:09we now speak about
30:10freedom of expression,
30:10and you're entitled
30:11to express your freedom
30:12of expression
30:13in any way that you think
30:14may be able to promote
30:15Finland to Biggo,
30:16and I want to say to you
30:17that that's a great challenge.
30:18I, myself,
30:19will share that perspective
30:20with you that I hope
30:21and pray that one day
30:22that we could come
30:23on the platform
30:24and say that we had,
30:25you know,
30:26no incidents
30:27across Trinidad and Tobago
30:28and are multifaceted,
30:30whether domestic violence,
30:31hardcore crime,
30:32what have you,
30:33drowning of,
30:34where the children are concerned.
30:35I hope that that's
30:36a big challenge,
30:37and how could we really
30:38secure that challenge
30:40that you're speaking about?
30:41It is a challenge
30:43that cannot only be directed
30:44to law enforcement.
30:46It's a challenge
30:47that you have directed
30:48to every single citizen
30:49in Trinidad and Tobago.
30:50So I want to begin with that.
30:52The second thing
30:53I want to say to you
30:54is that,
30:54and I heard that
30:55this is the second time
30:56that you are making mention
30:57of the need
30:58for the police officers
31:00to have a more deeper engagement
31:01where the communities
31:02are concerned,
31:03and I support that,
31:04that that is
31:05an effective approach
31:07in terms of ensuring
31:08that every station,
31:10the officers in the station,
31:11must know
31:13that particular station district
31:14inside out.
31:16A previous time
31:16on this platform
31:17I indicated to know exactly,
31:19and just by way of example,
31:20who are the justices
31:21of the police
31:22in that particular area?
31:23Who are the doctors
31:24in that particular area?
31:25Who are the vulnerable children
31:27in that particular area?
31:28Who are the children
31:29who are in need of care
31:30and protection
31:30in that particular area?
31:31Who are the elderly persons
31:33in that particular area?
31:34Who may be the criminal elements
31:35in that particular area?
31:36And that's the intimacy
31:38in terms of exercising
31:40due diligence as well
31:41in terms of whether
31:41that station district
31:42is concerned
31:43and by extension
31:43the division
31:44and by extension
31:45the national community.
31:46So you are right,
31:47there's a need
31:47to close that gap
31:48for us to work hand in hand,
31:51but I want to say to you
31:52that that challenge
31:53that you have given
31:54that perhaps one day
31:56that there's no report
31:57of any incident
31:59is premised
31:59on every single citizen
32:01playing their role
32:02in the way
32:03that they should be
32:03playing their role.
32:05Well said,
32:05and just remember
32:06we also live
32:07in the real world.
32:08That's correct.
32:08Nothing is going
32:09to be perfect
32:10and we all live
32:11among each other
32:12and we are the ones
32:13as Mr. Ali mentioned,
32:15we are very much
32:16responsible for our actions
32:17and the TTPS
32:18and other law enforcement
32:20elements are there
32:22to try and maintain,
32:23try and maintain
32:25some law and order.
32:26We take that break.
32:27We'll be back.
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33:10For the investigations
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33:13turn to the team you trust.
33:15The TV6 News.
33:16We do the work
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33:18ask the important questions
33:19and report on the issues
33:21that impact your community
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33:23This is more than just news.
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33:27The undisputed number one program
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33:33The TV6 News.
33:34Revealing facts.
33:35Provoking opinions.
33:40Thank you, members of the media.
33:42This concludes our weekly press briefing.
33:46As the Trinidad and Tobago police service
33:49continues to protect
33:50and serve with pride,
33:52we are calling on all citizens
33:54of Trinidad and Tobago
33:56to get on board with us
33:57to ensure that everyone is able
34:00to live
34:01in a crime-free society.
34:03Are you on board?
34:08This is my country
34:09and I am on board.
34:12I am on board
34:13with the Trinidad and Tobago police service.
34:16Let us save the youth of the nation.
34:18Get on board.
34:19Crime affects all of us.
34:21Children, communities,
34:23and the country as a whole.
34:24Supporting crime victims
34:26and working with the police service.
34:28I am on board.
34:29This is my country
34:31and I am on board.
34:34My name is Nikolai Blackmon
34:35and I am on board with the TTPS.
34:38Vision on Mission
34:39is proud to partner
34:41with the TTPS
34:42because crime prevention
34:44is everybody's business.
34:46We are the National Congress
34:47of Incorporated Spiritual Baptist Organizations
34:50off Trinidad and Tobago
34:51and we are on board with the TTPS
34:53in its fight against crime.
34:56I'm a farmer.
34:57This is my country
34:58and I am on board.
35:00I am Charles Jason Gordon,
35:02the Roman Catholic Archbishop
35:03of Port of Spain.
35:04I am on board
35:05in the TTPS fight against crime.
35:08We are all on board.
35:22And welcome back.
35:24It's Legally Speaking Wednesdays,
35:25Corporal Ali.
35:27And also,
35:27I should say,
35:28Sergeant now.
35:28My apologies.
35:29Sergeant and Director.
35:31Let me rephrase that.
35:33I can't demote you.
35:34Just before I went to Director
35:35I was Sergeant.
35:36Yes, I can't demote you.
35:38My apologies, sir.
35:40My apologies.
35:40Thank you very much.
35:41You know,
35:42Zaheer Ali,
35:42simple.
35:44Attorney.
35:45And a citizen of Trinidad and Tobago.
35:46Tobago, yes.
35:46But I want to make one more point
35:47with the previous caller.
35:49And I want to make a point
35:50by citing an authority.
35:52It has been cited on this platform
35:54on many occasions
35:56about Sir Robert Peel.
35:59And if you go back in history,
36:00you'll realize
36:01one of the founders
36:01of the police force
36:03in the United Kingdom
36:05slash England.
36:06And there was a very strong
36:08perspective that he shared
36:09which lives today.
36:10Yeah.
36:11That the public is the police
36:12and the police is the public.
36:15And I would like us
36:16to ponder on that
36:17every single citizen.
36:18That the public is the police
36:20and the police is the public.
36:21So my friend
36:22who called
36:24and created
36:24a very important challenge
36:26for us with the hope
36:27and expectation
36:27that one day
36:28we will have nothing to report.
36:30Whether it be police corruption,
36:31whether it be crime,
36:32as I said before,
36:32domestic violence,
36:33drowning,
36:34what have you.
36:34It will require
36:36every single citizen
36:37who is a police.
36:38They may not be on oath.
36:40And that's the difference.
36:41So you have a police service
36:42where persons have taken an oath.
36:44The oath officers.
36:45But then you have the citizenry
36:47who are also police officers
36:50albeit not on oath.
36:52And hence why
36:53this philosophy
36:54if you see something,
36:55say something
36:56or the duty
36:57of the citizenry
36:58to assist the police
36:59to detect crime
37:00under the infraction
37:01of the law.
37:02That's how those things
37:03came into being
37:03because of the fact
37:04that every single citizen
37:06has a responsibility.
37:08Notwithstanding,
37:08you may not be on oath.
37:09The oath officers
37:10is to assist
37:11in initiating
37:12the proceedings
37:12before the court.
37:13But you may be a witness,
37:15you may be an informant,
37:16you may be a provider
37:16of intelligence.
37:17So my brother,
37:18my friend,
37:19excellent challenge
37:20and I wish you can
37:22really achieve
37:23that challenge
37:24by placing in the minds
37:26of every single citizen
37:28for us to prove
37:29that as a society
37:30we can come at the honest platform
37:32and say today
37:32we didn't have
37:34a incident
37:35to report
37:35in Trinidad and Tobago.
37:40See, Whitney already
37:41starts to, you know...
37:42I'm trying to...
37:43That's correct.
37:44She's driving.
37:44Yes.
37:45We have a caller
37:45on the line.
37:46Caller, good evening.
37:47Hello, good evening.
37:48Hi, good evening.
37:50Good evening to you, ma'am.
37:52Hearing me?
37:52Yes.
37:53Loud and clear.
37:53Okay, all right.
37:55And Ms. Husband,
37:56good evening.
37:57Officer Ali,
37:58thank you very much
37:59for explaining
38:00these things
38:00before you started
38:01with the question
38:02that she had asked
38:03something in her
38:04being called
38:04person sedition act.
38:06Thank you,
38:06and freedom
38:06because you feel
38:08because they feel
38:08they could say anything
38:09and in any time
38:10and get away
38:10and you explained
38:11it very well.
38:12So thank you
38:12very, very much
38:13for that.
38:14Now, Officer Ali,
38:15a young male
38:16who always listen
38:16to and look
38:17at this program,
38:18he told me
38:19to ask this question.
38:22He said he feel
38:24that the police officers
38:26who are in the school
38:28should be teachers.
38:30They have to teach
38:31the children
38:31so that they would
38:32pick up some
38:33of the things
38:34that the teachers
38:36will not pick up
38:37and that will
38:38be able to assist
38:38them to prevent
38:40them from having
38:40to join gangs.
38:42I'm not sure
38:42how you look
38:42at it.
38:44They could teach
38:45their own
38:45but I don't know
38:46that they will
38:46go into a school
38:47and see,
38:47you know,
38:48concerning,
38:49whatever,
38:49the subjects
38:50that they have,
38:51you know,
38:51so I'm not sure
38:51how you're going
38:52to look at that.
38:52My second point
38:53is I was walking
38:54up a street
38:55yesterday,
38:57the street
38:57is a one-way
38:57and I saw a car
38:58coming down
38:59and I said
39:00to myself
39:00but who can
39:01see this
39:02one-way
39:03I was walking
39:04up now
39:04and saying
39:05I'm going
39:05to tell them
39:05when I realized
39:07police came
39:07out of the car.
39:09It wasn't a police
39:09car but it came
39:10out of the car
39:11and I see
39:12the children
39:12but next thing
39:13you know
39:13I see the man
39:14have a gun
39:14and the police
39:15asked him
39:16and said
39:16in question
39:16and he's going
39:17to find
39:17just a quarrel
39:18to it.
39:19I said
39:19where your partner
39:19where your partner
39:20because you know
39:20how they don't
39:21move by themselves
39:22or it's a black
39:22but when I come
39:23ask him
39:23go to be far
39:24with them
39:24or whatever
39:25so here
39:25I've done
39:25running down
39:26and the police
39:27cannot come down
39:28so he came
39:29and they put
39:30the court
39:30them
39:31put them in
39:31and they
39:32wound them
39:32open.
39:32I was looking
39:33at it
39:33and I was
39:34saying
39:34look how close
39:35I was
39:35coming up
39:36that same
39:36street
39:36he have a gun
39:37I don't know
39:37but what
39:38what is this
39:39but the third
39:40point is
39:41I saw
39:41can somebody
39:42be freed
39:43on a $100,000
39:45bill
39:46why I'm asking
39:47that
39:47because he
39:47on page
39:48three
39:48on the
39:48exercise
39:49today
39:49concerning
39:50Joshua
39:50Samuel
39:50father
39:51he just
39:51said
39:52he was
39:52freed
39:52on a $100,000
39:54bill
39:55so I'm
39:55wondering
39:55if you
39:56are freed
39:56from something
39:57else
39:57because if
39:58you're on bail
39:58it means
39:58you're on a
39:59tax bill
39:59so I just
40:01wanted to
40:01find out
40:02about that
40:02that's my
40:03last point
40:03all the best
40:04and be safe
40:05all of you
40:06thank you
40:06very very much
40:07thank you
40:08ma'am
40:08well thank you
40:09very much
40:09Kuala
40:10I did
40:11with the last
40:11issue first
40:12in terms
40:12of the use
40:12of the words
40:13I think
40:13that probably
40:15is the
40:15writing
40:16the vocabulary
40:17when you
40:18hear the word
40:19bail
40:19as you
40:20rightly
40:20indicated
40:20it will
40:21connotate
40:22that someone
40:22is charged
40:23released
40:23on bail
40:24pending
40:24the outcome
40:24of their
40:25matter
40:25because they
40:26are presuming
40:26innocent until
40:27proven guilty
40:27so probably
40:28is a matter
40:29of writing
40:29and the
40:30choice of
40:30words
40:31with reference
40:32to the
40:32first point
40:33that you
40:33raised
40:35police officers
40:36as teachers
40:37yes in the
40:38nation schools
40:38and you know
40:39I want to just
40:39look at it
40:40in the context
40:40where when
40:41police officers
40:42they have
40:42very clear
40:43mandate
40:44for police
40:45officers
40:45and one of
40:46those mandates
40:48is to detect
40:49crime under
40:49the infraction
40:50of the law
40:50or to prevent
40:51crime
40:51so that's
40:52one aspect
40:52of it
40:52but in terms
40:53of the educational
40:54aspect
40:55there are
40:55particular units
40:57of police
40:58officers who
40:58will visit
40:58schools and
40:59what they call
40:59a social
41:00intervention
41:00approach
41:01where they
41:01may go and
41:01teach a
41:02particular law
41:02and you spoke
41:03about the
41:04anti-gang
41:04legislation
41:05and probably
41:06have other
41:07legislation which
41:07may be important
41:08for the children
41:09to be aware
41:10of the
41:11offences and
41:12the elements
41:12of the offences
41:13and how the
41:13offences can
41:14come into context
41:15which creates
41:16an educational
41:17engagement
41:17but there are
41:18officers who
41:19are specific
41:20for that purpose
41:20officers who
41:21are trained
41:22to be able
41:23to engage
41:23the nation's
41:24children
41:24and who
41:26have a deep
41:27understanding
41:28and understand
41:30the protocols
41:31involved in terms
41:32of engagement
41:33but I'm aware
41:34that there are
41:34units that do
41:36in fact do
41:36social intervention
41:37as a matter of
41:37the psychosocial
41:38intervention
41:39that we're engaging
41:39I have police
41:40officers who are
41:41present who are
41:42also engaging
41:42for my educational
41:43context so
41:44significant point
41:45excellent point
41:46but it exists
41:47how many things
41:48do you want
41:49police officers
41:50to do
41:50well that's a
41:51great point
41:51and that's why
41:52it's too much
41:53it's almost like
41:53you want them
41:54to be the parent
41:55like the birth
41:56the children
41:56you want them
41:58to be the teacher
41:59the social worker
42:00and they are there
42:01to do other things
42:02like
42:02and I'm happy
42:03that you said
42:04that because
42:04using of the resources
42:05well I'm happy
42:06that you said
42:06that that's why
42:07I made mention
42:08of where there
42:09are specific mandates
42:09for police officers
42:10and if you are
42:12stretching that mandate
42:13and as you rightly
42:14indicated
42:15where a police officer
42:17now playing
42:17a social worker role
42:18or playing a psychological
42:19role
42:20or playing a parent role
42:21so yes
42:22you know
42:22as a police officer
42:24it's a very sensitive
42:26occupation
42:26slash profession
42:27very sensitive
42:28and maybe call up
42:29on to do several things
42:30in some cases
42:31even deliver babies
42:32but that happens
42:33right
42:33that happens
42:34in circumstances
42:36where there's
42:37urgent circumstances
42:38but you know
42:39you're right
42:40that I would not
42:41like to see
42:42that as a matter
42:43of convenience
42:44that you are pushing
42:45a particular profession
42:47in a particular area
42:48when that should be dealt
42:49with by professionals
42:50that's like asking
42:50a doctor
42:51to be a police officer
42:52that's correct
42:53while they're doing surgery
42:54that's correct
42:55but in the profession
42:56what I'm aware of
42:57from a prevention context
42:58while there's a duty
42:59to detect crime
43:00and other infraction
43:00of the law
43:01policing is also
43:02about prevention
43:03so if educating
43:04and creating awareness
43:06like for example
43:06laws and other things
43:08you can prevent
43:08crime and criminality
43:09you can view policing
43:11as also an educational
43:11engagement
43:12may I say
43:12on this platform
43:13of course
43:13legally speaking today
43:14as an officer
43:16in the TTPS as well
43:17and other officers
43:19who come on the platform
43:20this is one of the purpose
43:21of Beyond the Tape
43:22where we are sharing
43:23perspective
43:23sharing the law
43:24sharing offenses
43:25giving notices
43:26creating awareness
43:27so this is also
43:28a very heavy
43:29educational engagement
43:30so it may not lead
43:31to a strict detection
43:33of crime and criminality
43:34but it's an educational
43:36engagement
43:36to be able to prevent
43:37crime and criminality
43:38or provide a platform
43:40for trust and confidence
43:41so that persons
43:42will be confident
43:43to say listen
43:44let me provide
43:44intelligence to the police
43:45so yes we can look
43:47at it in that context
43:48but once the area
43:49presents itself
43:50for a specialist
43:52to deal with that situation
43:53I would really not like
43:54to see a police officer
43:55being pushed into an area
43:56where he's not trained
43:57he do not have the expertise
43:59he do not have the knowledge
44:00he do not have the experience
44:01to be able to deal
44:02with those matters
44:02yeah we will answer
44:03very simple
44:04final question
44:04when we come back
44:05after the break
44:06we'll be back
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45:37parents listen up
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46:22for every family
46:31this click
46:33saves lives
46:35it's simple people
46:38no seatbelt
46:39no excuses
46:42drivers and passengers
46:44who fail to wear
46:45their seatbelts
46:46in the front seat
46:47face a $1,500
46:49fine
46:49children
46:505 years and under
46:52must ride
46:53in the backseat
46:54of the vehicle
46:55in an appropriate
46:56child restraint
46:57or the driver
46:58faces a fine
46:59of another
47:00$1,500
47:01one careless decision
47:03could injure
47:05the people
47:05you love
47:06most
47:06or worse
47:09strap in
47:10for every ride
47:12every time
47:13protect your family
47:14stay alive
47:16and avoid
47:17the fines
47:17buckle up
47:18Trinidad
47:19and Tobago
47:36and we are back
47:37now Mr. Ali
47:38the caller
47:39before we went
47:39to the break
47:40reference
47:41an unmarked vehicle
47:42with
47:43that seeming
47:44to be
47:46unidentified
47:46officers
47:47meaning in their
47:48uniform that could
47:49identify them
47:50but my question
47:51is how
47:52as a civilian
47:53we could
47:55take
47:56the
47:58information
47:59that we are
47:59seeing before us
48:00in the moment
48:00with the unmarked
48:01vehicle
48:02men jumping out
48:03without
48:03proper uniform
48:04to say that
48:05is police officers
48:07there
48:07well Whitney
48:08listening to you
48:09speaking on behalf
48:10of the public
48:10and listening to the caller
48:11you have to take a very
48:12high ground
48:13and responsible position
48:14to identify
48:15that the fact
48:16that you are
48:16an unmarked vehicle
48:17requires
48:17and demonstrate
48:18that you want
48:19to operate
48:19in a covert manner
48:21and there is
48:22always a balance
48:23that has to be struck
48:24so I am not
48:25going to be naïve
48:27to identify
48:27that operating
48:29in an unmarked vehicle
48:30there should be
48:33a very strict policy
48:34in terms of
48:35how you behave
48:36when you are
48:36dealing with
48:37unmarked vehicles
48:37but at the same time
48:39you may be in an operation
48:40where the circumstances
48:41may be one
48:42that if you don't
48:42intervene immediately
48:44it could lead to death
48:45or it may lead
48:46to a situation
48:47where a person
48:47commit very serious crime
48:48and escape
48:49so that there is
48:50a very thin line
48:51in terms of
48:52wanting to be covert
48:53and then some instances
48:55where you may have
48:55to go overt
48:56to be able to detect
48:57crime under the infraction
48:58of the law
48:58but what I will say
48:59is that it is an area
49:01especially where
49:02we had challenges
49:03where you are not certain
49:04who are police officers
49:05and I think that's an area
49:06that you are going to go in
49:06so I will always advise
49:08that there is a very strict policy
49:10that if you are
49:12utilizing unmarked vehicles
49:13that there must be
49:14a strict policy
49:15in terms of
49:15what the police officers
49:16are required to do
49:17how they are to behave
49:18and there may be
49:19some instances
49:20where there may be
49:21some exceptional circumstances
49:23as I indicated before
49:24where while you may want
49:26to remain covert
49:26the circumstances
49:27may be one
49:28that you have to go overt
49:29to be able to prevent crime
49:31and under the infraction
49:31of the law
49:32but it requires
49:33a very strict policy
49:34and police officers
49:35should be properly guided
49:35by that policy
49:36to ensure
49:36that there is
49:38transparency, accountability
49:39and in some cases
49:41to even avoid
49:42a blue and blue
49:42in some instances
49:44so those are things
49:45that you need
49:46that is why you need
49:46a strict policy
49:47so that for example
49:48let's say
49:48you are not aware
49:49that in a division
49:50that there is an unmarked vehicle
49:51and there is a mark vehicle
49:53that is responding
49:54what do you think
49:55can happen in those circumstances
49:56so that is why
49:57you want very clear policy
49:58to avoid anything
49:59with blue and blue
49:59but also to ensure
50:00that the public
50:04rights
50:04and their concern
50:05is also addressed
50:07but I am telling you
50:08I will be terrified
50:09if an unmarked vehicle
50:10pull on me
50:10I don't think I jump in
50:11or slow in
50:12I am not going to pull in
50:12on the side
50:13if you are telling me
50:14signal in to me
50:15to pull to the side
50:16I might have to drive
50:17to the police station
50:18hopefully they wouldn't
50:19do anything too extreme
50:20what I have advocated
50:21and I will just share
50:21this perspective
50:22in my policing days
50:24what I normally
50:25what I have done
50:26in terms of
50:27when I am covert
50:28in an unmarked vehicle
50:29and be on operation
50:30if there should be
50:31an intercept
50:32I will call in
50:33a marked vehicle
50:34to come in
50:34and assist in the interception
50:36so that you are clear
50:37that it is a marked vehicle
50:38properly dressed
50:38police uniform
50:39and not a covert
50:40vehicle at intercepting
50:41but as I said before
50:42I have also been
50:43in circumstances
50:44where we had to go overt
50:45to be able to prevent crime
50:47especially with some
50:48of the significant matters
50:49that we are dealing with
50:50could you imagine
50:51that you have intelligence
50:52about a kidnapping
50:53that is about to unfold
50:54are you going to wait
50:55for a marked vehicle
50:56to intercept
50:57where there is a victim
50:58when life is threatened
50:58you may have to go over
50:59to prevent
51:00to save that victim
51:01or to rescue that victim
51:02so very significant
51:04circumstances
51:04and hence why I am calling
51:06for a very clear policy
51:07so that all these concerns
51:09at least as far
51:10as reasonably practicable
51:11could be cured
51:12in the best interest
51:13of all parties
51:13all right
51:14we have a caller
51:15on the line
51:15caller good evening
51:16hello
51:17hi good evening mom
51:19hi good evening
51:19to your
51:21I have a question
51:22when a pensioner's pension
51:25is stolen by a family member
51:27or used by the family member
51:29personally
51:30instead of
51:31for the pensioner's benefits
51:34is that a crime
51:35and what can the police do
51:37I'll listen over
51:38I missed the first part
51:40and she left already
51:41yeah
51:41I didn't
51:42I don't know what pension
51:43but what I
51:44yes
51:44I didn't get it correct
51:45but what I
51:45with pension
51:46and taking someone
51:48I guess using it
51:49for the benefit
51:49of the person
51:50who is the pensioner
51:51well immediately
51:52what I will identify
51:54immediately
51:54that that should be
51:55brought to the attention
51:55of the ministry
51:56of social development
51:57immediately in relation
51:57to that pensioner
51:58who pension
51:59has been applied
52:01in a manner
52:02that is not
52:03for his or her use
52:04and there's a level
52:05of dishonesty there
52:06so I will also
52:07advocate for a report
52:08to the police
52:09to investigate a matter
52:09to see whether
52:10in fact there's
52:12any fraudulent offenses
52:12whether larceny
52:13whether any other
52:16fraudulent conversion
52:17you know
52:17whatever may be
52:18the circumstances
52:18because sometimes
52:19it may not only be
52:20taking any money
52:20you know
52:21no
52:21it may be other
52:22circumstances prevailing
52:23at that particular point
52:24in time
52:24so I will advise
52:25on two contexts
52:26based on what I think
52:27I'm hearing from you
52:27report it to the
52:28ministry of social development
52:29so they can take steps
52:30because that elderly person
52:32may be unable
52:33to manage his or her affairs
52:35and the ministry
52:35need to know about that
52:36and secondly
52:37the fact that the money
52:38that the state
52:39is giving to this
52:39individual for a particular
52:40purpose
52:41is being converted
52:42or being taken
52:43with all the permission
52:44and authority
52:46that should be reported
52:47to the police
52:47for the investigation
52:48as well
52:48so I will advise
52:49on two contexts
52:49but we need to know
52:50the deep circumstances
52:51to know exactly
52:52whether in fact
52:54there's criminal conduct
52:55whether in fact
52:56there's you know
52:59other actions
53:00from a
53:00ministry of social
53:01development context
53:02that can be taken
53:03in relation to those matters
53:04now we have a few minutes
53:05Mr. Ali
53:06of course the floor is yours
53:08to
53:10the Republic
53:10talk to us
53:11it's your time
53:12well I want to say
53:13to you Whitney
53:13you have
53:15raised some very
53:16significant matters
53:16this afternoon
53:17and I want to thank you
53:18for raising those issues
53:19because the caller
53:20would have indicated
53:21that they were happy
53:21that you engaged me
53:22in those matters
53:24many people will realize
53:25I don't like to be
53:25too legalistic
53:26on this platform
53:27because I'm speaking
53:27to different persons
53:28at different levels
53:29of society
53:29I try to be as simple
53:31as possible
53:31and there are also times
53:33that I will have to deal
53:34with matters
53:34and take a very high ground
53:35because this is not a place
53:37that in some instances
53:38I really take on
53:40or flesh out a matter
53:40because the public interest
53:42may not require that
53:42and then with the many hats
53:44that I wear
53:44but all in all
53:45it's always a pleasure
53:45to be here
53:46I'm happy to share
53:47the information
53:47for members of the public
53:49and I ask you
53:49to continue to be
53:51responsible in your delivery
53:52in your expression
53:53and let us continue
53:54to play our role
53:55to ensure Trinidad
53:56and Tobago
53:56continue to enjoy
53:57that level of safety
53:58and security
53:59we know a lot is happening
54:00in Trinidad
54:01and Tobago
54:01please be tempered
54:02be tempered
54:05and be patient
54:06in terms of what is happening
54:07as well
54:08I think as a country
54:10the institution of the state
54:11we are being tested
54:13and it's important
54:14for us to hold
54:16firm
54:16in relation to
54:17the rule of law
54:18and let us enjoy
54:20the freedom
54:21that we enjoy
54:21in Trinidad
54:21and Tobago
54:22but always
54:23I really enjoy
54:24this platform
54:25and let us
54:26look ahead
54:27for the two months
54:28to look after
54:28our nation's children
54:29as well
54:30to ensure
54:31that we prevent
54:31any unforeseen
54:33or unfortunate
54:35situation
54:35where our children
54:36is concerned
54:37so I think
54:38that that
54:39is what I will
54:40want to say
54:40this afternoon
54:41Trinidad and Tobago
54:42let's continue
54:43to keep me love
54:44Mr. Ali
54:45as usual
54:45we thank you
54:46for being here
54:46with us
54:47each and every Wednesday
54:48to inform us
54:49and educate us
54:50through the legal minds
54:51that you are wrong
54:52including yourself
54:53to help us
54:54understand the law
54:55TNC
54:55we get ready
54:56for your news
54:57coming up next
54:57at 7 o'clock
54:58we'll be back
54:59tomorrow
54:59same time
55:00same place
55:01ASP will be joining us
55:02God bless
55:02we're out
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