00:00And Jim Bowden of The Athletic, of course, insider, former baseball GM.
00:03You can watch him on CBS, hear him on SiriusXM, and of course, read him on The Athletic.
00:07He joins us here on The Fan.
00:08Hello, Jim.
00:09How are you doing today?
00:10I'm doing great, Jonathan.
00:12Great to be back with you guys.
00:13Yeah, as always, fun to talk to you.
00:15And it's much more fun when we are coming off a win, like the Guardians had today.
00:19But they did lose another series.
00:20They've won one series without Jose Ramirez.
00:23They're at least calling up all the players, and we're intrigued by that.
00:26But Jim, right now, it kind of feels like, how do you stop the bleeding?
00:29What do you see with this Guardians team?
00:31Yeah, look, I think the Guardians are going to win this division because I think they've
00:36got the best and deepest starting rotation.
00:39I like the bullpen.
00:40I think the biggest question is, how do we fix the offense?
00:43And I think for Chris Antonetti and Mark Chernoff, it's going to be, what can you do between
00:48now and August 3rd to make this offense better?
00:52Obviously, getting Ramirez back is huge.
00:55Obviously, recently gained a lot, or off the IL was big as well.
01:00But this is a team that is 25th in home runs and 26th in runs scored.
01:05And I think they'll be able to outpitch the White Sox.
01:08I think they'll be able to hold off the Tigers.
01:10But I think they've got to find a way to go get another bat somewhere, somehow, between
01:15now and the deadline.
01:16That's just my opinion.
01:17Jim, pitching has been the hallmark of this organization for what it feels like nearly
01:22two decades now.
01:24They've produced multiple Cy Young Award winners.
01:28It just seems when they lose a guy, they always seem to find a guy.
01:33From the outside looking in, what do you think makes the Guardians so good when it comes to
01:40their pitching development and the success that they have had?
01:45Yeah, I mean, first of all, they're tremendous at evaluating not just talent, but they're
01:50tremendous at evaluating people, human beings.
01:54They're really, really good at figuring out baseball IQ, figuring out teammates, figuring
01:59out pitchers that have the ability to adjust.
02:03And then their pitching room has always been phenomenal.
02:05They know how to maximize a pitcher's strength.
02:08They know how to lead them to avoid their weaknesses.
02:13And, you know, it's impressive.
02:15I mean, you know, when you look at the development of Parker Messick, which has been incredible,
02:19and to watch, you know, the off-speed stuff coming off the four-seamer at the top of the
02:24zone, and Joey Cantillo, and the job that he has done.
02:28I mean, those two guys are game changers.
02:30Gavin Williams is the number one waiting in the makeup.
02:33Tanner Bybee had a great month of June.
02:35I mean, you know, that four-man rotation is better than anyone else in the division.
02:39So it has to do with scouring, it has to do with developing, and it has to do with being
02:45able to, you know, use science, engineering, and analytics to maximize the talent that they
02:51have.
02:51But they deserve a lot of credit.
02:53I mean, every single year, you know, we look up, and Tampa Bay and Cleveland are two teams
02:58that are just always going to be there because they're so good at what they're doing.
03:02At what point would you bench Stephen Kwon?
03:07I wouldn't.
03:09You know, I know it's frustrating when guys have bad years.
03:13I mean, was he hitting 214, I think, the last time I checked?
03:15I don't know if it's still sitting there.
03:17Yep, that on the money.
03:19Plus defender in the outfield.
03:22And the great Jim Leland, the Hall of Fame manager, once said, it's just a statistic waiting
03:29to be corrected.
03:30And so that would be my guess for Stephen Kwon.
03:32I think he'll figure it out and get hot.
03:37Again, I don't know for sure, but, you know, there's a lot of guys in baseball each year
03:41that slump, get off to really bad starts, dig a really deep hole.
03:45Everyone gets down on them, depressed.
03:47Are they going to get out of it?
03:48And then normally when we're done 162 games, you look up, and their stats are pretty similar
03:53to what we're used to.
03:54I don't see any reason why Stephen Kwon can't get hot and become the player that Cleveland
03:59fans are used to watching.
04:01What do you make of some of these young kids like Travis Bazzana, obviously former number
04:08one pick in the draft, got to the majors in relative quick time.
04:13The Guardians, frankly, needed that to happen.
04:16But what do you think of him and some of these other youngsters that they've been able to
04:21bring up in the minor leagues to try and keep the boat afloat here?
04:25I absolutely love Travis Bazzana.
04:28I was a fan when they took him first overall.
04:30I know, you know, it's easy to look back and go, ooh, Connor Griffin was there.
04:34Ooh, Nick Kurtz was there.
04:35Jack Caglione was there.
04:36But at the time of the draft, he had the best hit tool of anybody in that draft.
04:40It was what it was.
04:41It was a good pick.
04:42And I think he's going to be a star player for years to come.
04:45I think he's only scratching the surface of what he's going to be.
04:48And I love Chase DeLotter.
04:49I think he's, again, I think he'll end up being, like Bazzana, a player that we cover
04:54in a lot of all-star games.
04:55I love the fact that he uses the whole field, foul pole to foul pole, and that he's got
05:00power in all fields as well.
05:01So I love those two guys.
05:03You know, and when you have Jose Ramirez healthy, you know, I was really worried about the
05:07Guardians offense coming out of spring training.
05:09And, but with, you know, and I said back then, the key would be Bazzana and DeLotter.
05:13Those are the two guys that'll be key.
05:15And then both of them have lived up to expectations.
05:18And then the other guy that was so good that I wasn't expecting was Angel Martinez before
05:22he got hurt.
05:24I was really impressed with what he was doing in terms of power, speed, and the defense
05:28and left field, making as many diving plays as he had.
05:31So there's some really good pieces there.
05:34And it was nice to see Manzaro get a little bit hot here as well, you know, recently.
05:38But let's go get another bat.
05:40Let's go get, let's go find someone else that can be an upgrade at either first base or DH.
05:45That, that, that, that is to me something that Cleveland needs to be obsessed with.
05:50I think they need to do this.
05:51See, the problem is the White Sox can score runs.
05:54It's a good offense.
05:55It's a young offense.
05:56It's not going to go away.
05:58Detroit's better than how they played.
05:59They've dug themselves a pretty big hole, but I think they're going to get back in the
06:02race as well.
06:04So, you know, at the end of the day, pitching and defense normally wins one more back for
06:08Cleveland.
06:09And I think I'll be able to visit Cleveland in October.
06:11Jim Bowden joining us here on 92.3 The Fan on the Wise Heart Right.
06:14We make it right.
06:15Call Kyle Right.
06:16Hotline.
06:16Yeah.
06:17I mean, I, you mentioned first base, you mentioned DH, potentially outfield.
06:20What names are you thinking for the Guardians?
06:23Remember, they, they just don't, we don't make big splashy trades here.
06:27Typically, you know, once every 10 years, it feels like we'll make an Andrew Miller type
06:31move, but that's about it.
06:33Yeah.
06:34And I don't expect another big move either.
06:36And the other problem we have is Cleveland's not going to spend the money to go get a Raphael
06:40Devers bat.
06:41And they're, you know, they're not going to trade top prospects to go get that piece
06:45either.
06:46So, you know, it's got to be, you got to set your sights lesser.
06:49For example, if Houston were to drop out of it, would Christian Walker be a fit?
06:53If the Reds were to fall out of it, would Spencer Steer be a fit?
06:57You know, I think you kind of have to look at that third level of, of bats.
07:03But, you know, the one thing I learned many years ago, and in fact, it was in 1990 when
07:07we won the world championship of the Reds and Bob Quinn was the general manager at the
07:11time.
07:12And we made a couple of small moves picking up Billy Doran and Glenn Braggs down the stretch
07:16and, and Bob Boone and Bob Quinn would look at me with Lou Pinnell and say, you know, some,
07:21we all want to improve a team by a yard or a foot and even an inch.
07:25But sometimes if we improve it by a centimeter, it's enough to win.
07:28So let's always try to get a little bit better, even if it's not as big a move as we
07:33want.
07:33So that's kind of how I feel about Cleveland.
07:36Who's going to be available between now and then?
07:39We don't, none of us know for sure.
07:41Curtis Mead could become available with the Washington Nationals.
07:45He could be a guy to watch.
07:46I'd pay attention to what the Orioles are doing if they were to drop out of it.
07:50You know, they've got a lot of depth in terms of younger bats.
07:54Um, so again, I'm not expecting the big splash move, but got to find someone somewhere.
08:01Uh, with the parody in the American league though, six teams are, are above 500.
08:06And actually that's an improvement because earlier this week, it was just four.
08:09Uh, so the AL West, nice of them to join the party and get a couple of teams above 500.
08:14But with the parody right now that's in the American league and, you know, we talked about
08:18how the guardians rarely push the chips to the center of the table with a big move.
08:23Do you feel like this would be a year when you look at the landscape, uh, in the AL for
08:30one of those, uh, all in type of moves?
08:35Don't think it makes a lot of sense to do that.
08:38I don't see that happening.
08:40I like the strategy that they're using right now, which is we're going to give the young
08:46players, you know, they took that gamble out of spring training and they're continuing
08:50with it.
08:51We're going to give our young prospects the runway to try to win.
08:54So I don't think the all in move is kind of what the goal should be here.
08:59I think the goal should be, how can we keep adding to this without having to give up, you
09:05know, I, you know, the huge pieces, you know, maybe the Royals decide that Caglione is their
09:12first baseman of the future.
09:13Maybe Vinny Pascantino becomes available later on.
09:17I don't know.
09:18You know, maybe the Rangers are in first place right now, but they're just one game over
09:22500.
09:23If they were to fade, even a Jock Peterson would be an upgrade, you know, somewhere.
09:28Um, so look, there are guys out there that can fit.
09:31I'm not expecting that huge move.
09:33I'm not sure that that is exactly what this team needs.
09:37Get Jose Ramirez back, get the lottery on how Martinez hitting the way they did.
09:43And then let's, let's just go try to find the guy somewhere somehow, you know, maybe it's
09:49TJ Rumfield from the Colorado Rockies.
09:51Maybe he's the answer when Charlie Condorn is ready and they want to put him at first and
09:56you trade for Rumfield.
09:57Um, so again, maybe a smaller move, not that big.
10:00I'm trading my top prospects trade.
10:03Uh, Jim, yesterday in the game, there was a play with Cooper Engel, who's now been up
10:07in the big leagues for a week.
10:09Uh, yeah, you saw the play obviously.
10:11And, uh, I, I don't know what you do in that spot for those that are just listening in and
10:15they're like, what are you talking about?
10:16He asked yesterday through the ball.
10:18Uh, it was the second out of the inning and he threw the ball in the stands and allowed
10:22the Rangers to score the run on a two base error.
10:25And at the time it really, I mean, it cost the, cost the guardians, the game.
10:28Uh, what, what do you make of a play like that?
10:31Is there anything you can even, there's nothing you can teach off of that?
10:34What would, what would you instruct your manager back in the day to then, uh, do in response
10:39to that?
10:41Well, anyone that watched me be a GM for 17 years knows what I would have done.
10:45I would option the kid out in between the game.
10:47He would have been not only out of the game, he'd be on his way to double A, not triple
10:51A.
10:51He'd be gone.
10:52Uh, I mean, that's just, it's, it's unacceptable.
10:55Sorry.
10:56I can't, well, I'm not, I can't lose games that way.
10:58You come to the big leagues, you know how many outs there are?
11:01No, then you're not a big leaguer.
11:02I got to get you out of here.
11:03So I'm sorry to be cold like that.
11:05But fortunately the guardians have leadership that has more compassion, um, and more patience
11:11in Steven vote and, um, Mike Chernoff and Chris Antonetti.
11:16So they didn't handle it that way.
11:18You have to talk to the player and you have to tell the player that's never happening again.
11:23Never again.
11:24Will you be on the field and not know how many outs they are.
11:26That cannot happen at this level, period.
11:29And if it happens again, there will be no conversation.
11:31You will be back in the minor leagues.
11:33So, you know, you have to be, you have to communicate.
11:36You have to tell them the way it is, but that's, that stuff's just not acceptable.
11:40Sorry about that.
11:41Jim, fantastic insight as always.
11:43We appreciate you and we'll catch up with you later.
11:46Sounds good.
11:46Thanks for having me on.
11:47All right.
11:47Good stuff right there.
11:48Jim Bowden on the wise heart, right?
11:49We make a right call.
11:50Kyle, right?
11:50Hotline.
11:51Check him out.
11:51Obviously on CBS, Sirius XM radio, and also here, uh, read him.
11:56On the athletic.
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