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00:00Capaccio, I think, on the Western Hotline.
00:02Sal, we got you.
00:03You do have me.
00:05I have to tell you, I said to Zach, I said, Zach,
00:08I'm playing in this golf event today for Hope Totes out of Transit Valley.
00:11I'm with Melissa Holmes of Channel 2, our friend Tony Naska from Signals,
00:17and Elliot Skursky, who you know is a great, great golfer, Melissa's son.
00:20And I just, I'm telling you this story because I said, you know what?
00:23I have one shot left.
00:25Let me put the phone down, and I'll get on with Mike.
00:27We're on the last hole.
00:29And I'm not kidding.
00:30I just hold it out from 85 yards.
00:33I'm like, what?
00:34Wow.
00:34It's pretty cool.
00:35I'm very, very happy.
00:36And we're laughing because I said I have to just take this one last shot,
00:40and that just happened.
00:41Do it again.
00:42I'll, I'll, I only, you know, to do it once, we can all do, no,
00:46that's pretty cool.
00:46Now you don't have to putt and put the phone down again during our
00:49conversation either.
00:50I don't, and that's right.
00:51And I'm not going to putt, and I had said to Elliot, I said, it's a scramble.
00:54I said, Elliot, you can just putt twice, you know, just putt for me
00:57because I'll be talking to Mike.
00:58But what was funny is after that happened, I literally just put my club in
01:02the bag.
01:02I said, nice playing with you guys.
01:03And I shook hands because we're done.
01:05Love that.
01:06What a walk-off.
01:07What a mic drop that is.
01:08Good job, sir.
01:08Unbelievable.
01:09It was pretty cool.
01:09Did you guys make sure to take hydration breaks today?
01:14Not really.
01:15I think, actually, out here it was a little cool out here today, man.
01:18Like, very different.
01:20Yes.
01:21No, I was talking about the soccer.
01:23That's right.
01:23At World Cup, they don't care.
01:25It's not that hot in a lot of these games.
01:26They're just doing it anyway.
01:27They're indoors, and they're digging because they're paid for.
01:30They're paid for.
01:32Well, I know there's no – thanks for this.
01:34I know there's no bills this week or for a while, but I was talking with Tyler
01:39Dunn today about Josh Allen and his career, and Tyler had that sit-down with him,
01:44and there was that one quote about, you know, Allen's future that raised some
01:48eyebrows.
01:49Do you think – so I then went into some stuff about just how, you know, quarterbacks
01:54that haven't won championships are kind of like in a certain bucket.
01:58Do you think, like I do, that we've kind of evolved as fans to a point – and this
02:03isn't to, you know, protect Josh Allen at all – but we don't really judge that
02:08as harshly as maybe we did years ago?
02:12Do you mean judge what part harshly, as harshly as we did?
02:16A quarterback that doesn't have a championship.
02:18Okay, yeah, winning the Super Bowl, that's what I thought.
02:22I think in a lot of ways it's harsh – it's, like, judged even more harshly by
02:27some people because they always want to make comparisons, and it's, well, this guy
02:31has one and that guy has one.
02:32Even Trent Dilfer won one.
02:33I mean, come on, right?
02:34We all know that that's ridiculous to think about, but I do think that we've
02:38evolved at least, I think, analytically, an analyst world of understanding how good
02:46these guys are with the numbers and really kind of giving them maybe a little bit more
02:51of their due.
02:52Although I still think that the championships to people, some people matter far too much.
02:58And I know that it can elevate you.
03:00I know that – I agree with that.
03:01It should elevate you.
03:02Like, you win, like, it's got to put you, you know, higher – a little bit higher up.
03:06But it shouldn't penalize you if you never win one when you're great.
03:09I would say about Dan Marino, who might be, like, the best example of this player,
03:15that when he was playing – and you were around – when he was playing, it was held
03:20against him very strongly that Miami only went to the one and then didn't win.
03:26And it felt to me – maybe that's being in Buffalo a little bit, Sal, but it felt to
03:30me that, like, that was the thing about Marino that you just had to say, that he
03:35didn't have it.
03:35And now I feel like maybe people will say, well, he was maybe the best ever and not – as
03:41an example to this point, like, not judge him as harshly for not winning like we would
03:46have then.
03:49You know, it's funny.
03:50For me, this guy was Warren Moon more than it was Marino.
03:52Okay.
03:54I think, you know, Marino had that certainly attached to him from a lot of people.
04:00And we all heard it.
04:02But I don't know.
04:03I guess from my perspective, it was always, like, him and Kelly were just so awesome.
04:06And I never held it against Marino because Kelly never won one.
04:09You know?
04:10And Kelly had gone to four.
04:13We know that.
04:13But that's the point for me about this.
04:16I think we in Buffalo may have a unique perspective on this, Mike.
04:19And for me, at least, I think I might be different than a lot of people because our guys never
04:24won one.
04:25And they were great.
04:26Jim Kelly never won one.
04:27And I mean, I know Thurman and Andre, I'm blowing me into here.
04:30But the quarterback specifically never won a Super Bowl.
04:32And when anybody tells me about this, I'm like, yeah, but I know how good those guys
04:36were.
04:36And they still never won one.
04:37So I think when Kelly and Marino were going through it together, and even Elway, I never
04:43really thought of Marino or Elway as docking them because my guy didn't win one either.
04:50For some reason, I did Warren Moon.
04:52I think maybe it's just because he had gone to the CFL and he had all these incredible numbers.
04:57And he comes back to the NFL and then the comeback happens and all of that.
05:01But even him, I just never really thought less of those guys really as anybody else because
05:09I knew how tough it was because Kelly never did it.
05:12You know what else is interesting about that?
05:14And this is comparable to now when you think of, well, Mahomes is the exception, getting
05:20there and winning three times.
05:21But Allen, Jackson, the AFC, and all the great quarterbacks in the AFC, what helped Kelly
05:29was that at least he got there and four times in a row, which was a record and still is.
05:35Whereas Marino and Elway had been, Moon, you mentioned, didn't get there.
05:40It almost, in a twisted way, helped Kelly in these comparisons because the NFC won like
05:4514 Super Bowls in a row from 83 until Elway against Green Bay, I think, is the streak.
05:52So it wasn't like anybody else in the AFC, Marino and Moon, to name two, were winning
05:57either.
05:58It was all Dallas and San Francisco for most of that time.
06:03So yeah, that probably helped.
06:06Yeah, getting there certainly mattered.
06:08I think because Elway also got to three of them and didn't win.
06:12And it was always, but again, I always felt weird to me.
06:16To me, I always felt weird and negatively saying anything or impacting them, Marino or
06:22Kelly, Marino or Elway because of Kelly.
06:24Like, I'm like, I can't do that because my guy, like if I'm saying about them that I have
06:28to say that about my guy and I never wanted to do that.
06:30Yeah.
06:31With Sal Capaccio, Mike Shope here, Bulldog is off today.
06:34Well, you know, Allen, as well as you know him, what do you think all of this means to
06:40him in terms of his career to this point, knowing that he's not retiring, just thinking
06:45about his going into what, year nine of his career, turning 30, new coach now, do you
06:53think, how much do you think it matters to him at this point, not winning a championship
06:58yet?
07:00Now, when you ask that, do you mean legacy?
07:03Yeah, personally, like in terms of how, is he somebody that you think maybe it sort
07:11of grinds at him that either he would be, I don't know, I don't want to like overstate
07:16it here, but misunderstood or just not respected well enough because he doesn't have that ring
07:21yet.
07:22I don't know.
07:23I feel weird answering that, like, you know, how Josh might feel personally, but all I can
07:28tell you is from just the way that he speaks about this issue and topic, which is if you
07:34go right back to Tyler's article, which is how much Josh understands the gravity of winning
07:40it for this city and this team and what that would matter and what that would mean.
07:44And I think he takes it more from that standpoint than he does personally, but he's also human.
07:49I can't imagine anybody in his position, whether that's Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow,
07:54Justin Herbert, you know, and I know that not everybody there is equal as far as some
07:59of the things they've done in numbers or whatever.
08:01I mean, you know, Lamar's got a couple of MVPs and everything.
08:03I would, I would think that they would all have that.
08:06That's what, that's what gets them to where they are having that, that, that I'm not going
08:10to call it ego, but that, you know, place of, Hey, I know that I'm just as good as these
08:15guys winning and I haven't.
08:16And that's what puts you over the top in this particular industry.
08:20That's what puts your name above everybody else is winning championships and wearing
08:24a ring, having a Lombardi trophy.
08:27I'm sure in some capacity it has to, as you say, you know, grind on you or whatever.
08:32But I also think like, I think Josh also knows he's Josh Allen and he's accomplished a whole
08:40hell of a lot more at this game than, you know, what 95% of the quarterbacks who's ever,
08:46who have ever existed.
08:47So that, that I'm sure helps, but man, like, how can you not, if you're a quarterback in
08:53the NFL, I don't care if you're Josh Allen or, you know, somebody who never really was
08:59a legitimate starter of their whole life, not think about what it would be like if you
09:03had one.
09:04Right.
09:05And that's just the, the reality that you and I both understand well, that this is different
09:10for quarterbacks than anybody else.
09:12You know, I can't think of any player who wasn't a quarterback where I would even think
09:17of whether they won a championship that had, that would have any, you know, role in defining
09:22their careers.
09:23Like just nobody.
09:24If, if you, do you think about that with goalies?
09:29Not really.
09:29I really don't think about it with anybody in any sport.
09:32I think like, it's just, to me, I wanted to do this with Bulldog last week.
09:37I'm glad you asked that question because, and we didn't, but you look up goalies.
09:42We talked about it with Marty Baran actually on Friday.
09:45I'm not sure he even understood what I was going for.
09:47I think we agreed with each other.
09:48Like the guys that, the Aiden Hills of the world, so to speak, anti-Niemi, these guys
09:53that just were just guys until they won.
09:57And so I never cared, since you asked, I never cared that Fred, Frederick Anderson didn't
10:03have good playoff performances in the past.
10:05I think games are games.
10:06And most of these guys are able to focus on the job rather than get distracted by, wow,
10:14what is this?
10:14You know, I think once, once you lace them up, so to speak, it's pretty much like that,
10:19but I don't know.
10:20What's your perspective on that is, do you, do you think most pro athletes see the playoffs
10:25as very different?
10:29Um, yeah, I think that, I think that most many do see it that way, but I don't think that
10:36the goaltender rises to the level of the quarterback in anybody's eyes really about getting one.
10:41Um, when we talk about sports, I do think, however,
10:45goalie still matters in this regard, maybe, maybe second most of all the positions.
10:50It's still not, there's still a big gap quarterbacks the most, but you're not going to talk about
10:53a first baseman or a pitcher pitcher, I guess, in, in baseball, maybe the closest thing.
10:59Um, but goalie does matter for this.
11:01And I think about hashtag, right?
11:02Which is, you know, he never got one in Buffalo.
11:05He finally did leave when he left, he got one.
11:07And, and it kind of mattered that the greatest goalie ever got a Stanley cup.
11:12Like, what would that sound like?
11:13We say he's the greatest goalie ever.
11:15And he didn't have a Stanley cup.
11:16I think that matters for a goaltender.
11:18Who's that level when you're that high up, when you win Vezina trophies, I do think it matters
11:23that you add that to your resume, that you're a Stanley cup winning goalie, that you carried
11:28a team, or at least we're a big part of helping a team win a Stanley cup.
11:33It doesn't mean that the guys who weren't as good, who won one on your level, but I do
11:38think it matters for their legacy to have that next to your name more than it does in almost
11:43any other position in sports, except for quarterback.
11:45Yep.
11:45It definitely matters to us on the outside.
11:48And you know, it, it, it helps to drive what we do for a living talking about all this
11:53stuff is legacy stuff.
11:54I was looking up when you started to talk there about goalies, I was looking up Clayton
11:59Kershaw because Kershaw was somebody that was one of the best around for many years,
12:06but had a playoff results stigma about him.
12:10And I wanted to always to say about him, he's going to get, he's going to get it done one
12:15of these times.
12:15You just have to keep, you know, keep making it and giving him a chance.
12:19And that happened when, when they won the Dodgers one in 2020 and he was fabulous.
12:23But before that, in his career, he had had tough times in the post season.
12:27What, one other thing about the playoffs is guess what?
12:30No matter what the sport is, you're playing against better teams than you do in the regular
12:34season.
12:34So the competition gets tough.
12:36All of this back to Alan Sal just makes, not that this is a new subject, but it just
12:42makes the Denver loss that much tougher because you didn't have Kansas city.
12:47You didn't have Baltimore, you had five turnovers and he was four of them in this, including
12:53the controversial one at the end with cooks.
12:55I mean, that counts though.
12:56Like this was different.
12:58We had gotten pretty good at pushing back against the ESPN people for a while there with like,
13:05actually his playoff performances have been super, but then Denver really wasn't.
13:14No, I agree with that.
13:16And I'm with you on the whole, like, I would do the same thing.
13:19Like, well, wait a minute.
13:20You guys really don't know what you're talking about.
13:21Take a look at what he's actually done in the playoffs.
13:23Look at his playoff numbers.
13:24He actually had probably not anymore.
13:26I haven't done this going into the last year's playoffs.
13:30He had the greatest touchdown to interception ratio of any quarterback who's ever played
13:35with the, like, amount of games or starts or passes or whatever, you know, like a good
13:40amount, which is incredible to think about because it's Josh Allen who had this reputation
13:46coming in the league.
13:47And when he was a rookie, he would turn the ball over and he still is kind of wild and
13:50haphazard sometimes.
13:51And he still had this incredible TD interception ratio.
13:54I doubt it is anymore, you know, after last year in the playoffs.
13:58But either way, the point is, it was definitely frustrating to have to try to point that out
14:03to people.
14:04And now it's not as easy to point out to people because they kind of have scoreboard just from
14:09that game.
14:10And even though we know that that's not a representation of who he's been throughout
14:14most of his, you know, playoff life.
14:17Obviously, there are differences.
14:19It's a difference to win a Super Bowl and to make it.
14:22This goes back to the Kelly stuff.
14:24But you have, it is a different conversation this year, Sal.
14:28From what it had been for the last two or three years with, okay, Mahomes, Allen, Jackson,
14:33right?
14:33You have Mahomes, who's gotten there and won multiple times.
14:36Then you have Allen and Jackson who win their MVPs, but have fallen short.
14:39And then you have Burrow.
14:41He would be like right there too, having made one.
14:43You've got this hierarchy.
14:45Now, I mean, that's a, it's a much different look to the whole, the overall, I think.
14:51Not that those other guys aren't still good or great, but you have May now who has been
14:58and he's easily, he's much younger than those other guys.
15:01You have Herbert and Lawrence who might be, it might be their time.
15:07I don't know if this is an also Stroud.
15:09I wouldn't want to put Stroud on the same level as those guys, I think.
15:11And then also Bo Nix.
15:14So it's a, it's a bigger group of quarterbacks this year.
15:18It's not every team's quarterback in the AFC, but it's a bigger group of guys that, you
15:24know, you can have these conversations about what is on the line for them.
15:28There's always this, I guess, with football, like we're talking about for a quarterback
15:31to make it, but you, instead of having maybe four guys in the AFC where you talk, these are
15:37who you talk about.
15:38These are the players.
15:39Now it's closer to 10.
15:42Yeah, for sure.
15:43And partly because it seems like, and I think you could probably do the research on this
15:48and look at the numbers and maybe that's something I'll even do tonight.
15:50Now I'm thinking about it.
15:52Seems like every time there's like a new, really hot young quarterback come to the league
15:56goes to an AFC team, except for what?
15:57Maybe Caleb Williams.
15:59I guess Jordan Love.
16:00Not only he counts considering when he was drafted and the situation there, but it always
16:04seems like it's the AFC getting this new young quarterback that now you have to compete
16:08with and it's Justin Herbert and, you know, who comes in a few years ago.
16:12And even Tua, you know, it doesn't work out there or whatever.
16:14Now you have Drake May that comes in.
16:16Now you have Bo Nix that comes in.
16:18Cam Ward from last year.
16:20Right?
16:20I mean, it just seems like it's the AFC all the time that's getting this new crop where,
16:25yeah, there's a guy here or the guy there for the NFC, but it feels like the quarterbacks
16:30that have to get through in the AFC are just so much tougher on a yearly basis.
16:33Why is that?
16:34Is that going to be a coincidence if I think this through or is there, I mean, you have
16:37Jaden Daniels.
16:38Jaden Daniels is this in the NFC, but I mean, I have certain of these teams in the NFC just
16:45gone for retreads.
16:46Bryce Young, but he hasn't hit.
16:49So you have him.
16:51But, you know, Tampa.
16:52He's not finishing.
16:53I mean, yeah, they're not finishing in spots in the draft to coincide.
16:58I think it's just kind of coincidence, to be quite honest with you.
17:02Well, it's interesting to think about, even though camp is still, what, 45 days away?
17:09I lost count of the actual days.
17:12Five months.
17:13No, just kidding.
17:14It seems like it.
17:15But we'll get there.
17:18Just a quick cap on Allen here.
17:21I know we've talked about it before, but Allen and Joe Brady, Sal.
17:25So, you know, how simpatico are the two of them as we go into a new era here with Brady
17:33as the head coach?
17:35Well, I think very much.
17:36You know, I think, number one, let's start with the fact that I don't think Joe Brady
17:40gets this job without a Josh Allen endorsement.
17:43Again, he's not picking the coach.
17:45He's not.
17:45It's not his call.
17:46But he doesn't.
17:47If he says no, I don't think it's happening.
17:51And the fact that the Bills have had this really great offense for the last few years,
17:55of course, is mainly due to Josh Allen.
17:58But they've had Joe Brady as their offensive coordinator.
18:01And I think that's part of the reason why he becomes the head coach, because they don't
18:05want to lose that.
18:05They don't want to lose their fastball, so to speak.
18:07That's where they're really good.
18:09They've decided, I think, internally that their feelings have mostly been on defense.
18:13So they removed the person running the defense, which happens to be the head coach.
18:18So they now have a new head coach.
18:19That being said, Joe has been with Josh now for several years, position coach, coordinator.
18:26They've developed a relationship.
18:27They've developed a bond.
18:29There's been a lot of talk about, can you even coach him hard enough?
18:32And that was a big thing when he was hired.
18:34And both guys will say, absolutely.
18:37Because they have a good relationship, they can basically have those tough conversations
18:42when tough conversations have to happen.
18:45So I do believe that's the case.
18:47And I do also believe that Joe will give Josh ownership.
18:52And I'm not saying Sean McDermott wouldn't give Josh ownership.
18:55But let's be honest.
18:56We know that Sean had a certain philosophy to make sure that the team played under a certain
19:00structure.
19:01And if that meant that Joe had to call plays in a certain manner, not calling, I'm not
19:06saying on a play-to-play basis.
19:07I mean, a philosophical way of calling plays, depending on who you're playing and what the situation
19:12is, and Josh Allen playing a certain way, that was going to happen.
19:16And I think Joe is going to be a little more open to letting Josh kind of be a little
19:19bit
19:19more determining in that regard.
19:22And I think that's going to lead to Josh Allen.
19:24Maybe we see a little more variance, too.
19:26Maybe we do see some more turnovers, but also bigger numbers from Josh.
19:30I'm super interested in that.
19:31I would love to see it, actually.
19:33I would sign for it.
19:35It'd be fun, at least.
19:36And they'll probably be good anyway.
19:38So I'd love to see that.
19:39So 85 yards, I mean, did somebody go take the flag out for this shot before you hit
19:45it, or did you run it in?
19:47Did you bounce it in?
19:48It's a scramble.
19:49So we all were, and listen, it was 85 to center, and Elliott, told you, Elliott Skursky, great
19:54golfer, 12 years old.
19:55And he said, it's 73 to the pin, is what he said before we hit.
19:59It's a red pin.
20:00And, okay, so I had a 60-degree wedge, and I hit the ball a little lighter than I normally
20:06would.
20:07And it hit the green, and it just kept rolling.
20:10We're all looking at it.
20:10And literally, I'm listening to you on the phone when this is happening.
20:14Yes, yes.
20:14It's next, because it's on the speakerphone.
20:16I'm like, I got to go talk to Mike.
20:17And it starts rolling.
20:19We're all like, oh, my God, oh, my God.
20:20And then it went in, and everybody raised up and screamed and high-fived and all that.
20:26And then while I was talking with you within the first couple minutes, Elliott basically
20:31waved me over to, like, no, you come get the ball in the cup.
20:34That's your ball.
20:34You hit it, which was really cool.
20:35So I did that.
20:37Nice.
20:37Well, congrats on that.
20:39Enjoy the night.
20:40You're part of the presentation tonight, the banquet, I'm sure.
20:44Yeah, yeah.
20:45I'm here again, like I said, Hope Totes.
20:47It's a great organization doing a lot of great things.
20:49And here, Melissa Holmes from Channel 2, she's part of the program tonight.
20:56And we played golf together, and it was a really fun day for a good cause.
20:59Thanks for fitting me in.
21:00Congrats on the shot.
21:01And make sure you have me on speakerphone any time you play golf in the future.
21:04Obviously, it goes well for you.
21:06I love it.
21:06You got it, buddy.
21:07Thanks.
21:08Bye.
21:08Sal Capaccio.
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