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00:00do it it's a plan joe so joe a preeminent bengals analyst with us on the western hotline
00:06how are you choosing to define expectations for the bengals this year i think they're tricky
00:13because they've been down in the standings but the upside is really there and when i see that
00:19they're favored in 15 games i feel like just saying making the playoffs is light
00:25yeah i was i was trying to temper my expectations and maybe how i presented them to other people
00:31for a while because the defense still after free agency i didn't feel great about it and then the
00:36dexter lawrence trade kind of ruined that for me i i bought in i was like man that's you know
00:41you get
00:41a premium piece on your defense uh that could be huge for you that could should at least get you
00:46moved up to you know 16 to 20 in the defensive rankings instead of 30 to 32nd which they've
00:51been for the last three years and i start to go okay well let's really look at this team and
00:55when burrow's been healthy they've been good and they score a lot of points and they're competitive
01:00it's really been the two injuries i guess you can say probably three two injuries in 2023
01:05and then uh last year getting hurt again with the turf toe it really sapped their potential for what
01:12probably should have been prime years for joe burrow's career now he still has a few more of those
01:17he's he's not old yet but at the same time you're looking at it like man is the pressure there
01:23do
01:23they feel it can they see it is that why they're going to get dexter lawrence is that why they're
01:27spending money in free agency is that why they're restructuring joe burrow and i assume another move
01:33is coming with that uh extra cap space and if so maybe 15 games isn't crazy especially when you look
01:38at the schedule it is not tough at all so uh i'm starting to get carried away a little bit
01:43and i don't
01:43know if that's just the summer and the football season needing to get here that's allowing me to
01:47do that forgive me if this ends up being a stupid question joe but what are what's your read on
01:53i don't know the vibes around burrow it felt like as last year was ending and even into the into
01:59the
01:59winter and early in the spring there's there's this concern and maybe this is just bangles fans
02:04being panicky the way bills fans used to be panicky about i don't know the team leaving or players not
02:10wanting to be here is there any anxiety about burrow ending up at the carson palmer space on
02:16the board there is some of that of course especially if you've been a fan for a long time now
02:21half of
02:22the viewers and readers and you know people that consume my content jumped on when burrow was here
02:26so they they're kind of fuzzy on the carson palmer story but it was very similar to this
02:31they went to the playoffs the first two years things felt great you had chad hancho senko tj hushman
02:36zada rudy johnson like you know a stacked offense with a timely defense and he was the golden arms
02:43prospect number one overall heisman winner everyone felt really good about their potential to get there
02:47and then they don't make the playoffs for three straight years and burrow or uh palmer hurts his
02:53ucl misses all of almost all of 2008 uh and they have to rebuild and get back to competitive football
03:00in 2009 uh and then things that went downhill after that and they brought in to 2010 and everything
03:06just got crazy and you could see the bengals were never really going for it they were never really
03:11pushing the chips all in and palmer got frustrated with that and things fell apart and it hit us like
03:17a brick at the time so could you see it happen again of course i have scars from that from
03:22thinking
03:22you're going into the season with one thing and then you get the andrew luck pulled uh right in front
03:27so you know it happens and it is something to be aware wary of but at the same time
03:32looking at the contracts looking at how feasible it would actually be to do these things and how
03:37conservative the bengals typically are and how how tight they are really in a lot of ways they didn't
03:42want to trade palmer originally until someone finally offered two potential first round picks
03:46end up being a first and a second there's really no space to do it for another two years and
03:51i don't
03:52think joe wants to leave jamar and t as they're really pushing to get them paid and they got
03:57paid and everyone's here and guaranteed money is still there for the next year and a half like
04:01that i don't think it's happening anytime soon but it's not a coincidence i don't think that the
04:07bengals were like okay let's make some all-in moves in this offseason try and right this ship
04:11yeah i'm glad you got to higgins and chase there i mean you know keeping both of them i can
04:17remember
04:17talking to you over the years that like we just i don't know i just never thought that was a
04:21great
04:22idea to invest that money there but i wonder how much organizationally the concern of you know
04:29making sure they keep burrow happy certainly any team with a franchise quarterback wants to do that
04:34i wonder if like acquiescing eventually to keeping both of those receivers played a bigger role in that
04:41that maybe it should have some of the most interesting comments this offseason was from
04:46general manager de facto general manager is what we call him because it's really still mike brown but
04:50duke tobin runs the show and he had a uh postseason and after the season press conference going into
04:57the offseason and he was pretty stern in his response when everyone's like you feel the pressure to put
05:03things around burrow to make it right around burrow to build the right team for joe all these things
05:07and eventually he kind of cracked a little bit and said well our quarterback also has to stay healthy
05:12and he has to win these these games and big moments at the end and then he continued to talk
05:16about
05:16how they can fix the rest of the roster around him but i thought that was important because
05:21you know there if you leave excuses on the table i think the fan base will generally side with the
05:27player for a long time especially the franchise quarterback but once the excuses are kind of gone
05:32you've paid your weapons around you got you got jamar chase you got t higgins you've got mike
05:37you got chase brown you're bringing back all five starters on the offensive line that played much
05:42better this is the best offensive line in burrow's uh career for sure and then now we've made moves
05:46in free agency you brought in big free agents two starting free agents on day one of free agency
05:50make a big trade trade 10th overall pick for dexter lawrence uh you make moves there to ensure that
05:56the defense is much better well now the pressure is off the organization in a lot of ways and it's
06:01normally squarely on the organization i think the pressure is even less on zach taylor because we've seen
06:07taylor get a no k roster they weren't great no one expected them to make the super bowl in 2021
06:14and i don't think people love zach taylor on the outside uh the organization does but i think the
06:19pressure is often a little bit and more on joe burrow and it's on jamar chase and it's on t
06:25higgins
06:25like we've paid you guys it is time to make plays at the end of the game to win these
06:30big games and to
06:31stay healthy of course for joe burrow which to me that i find that exciting i find that like okay
06:36let's
06:37put it on the players let's see what they do let's see how they respond this is you guys were
06:41having
06:41a conversation earlier uh about greatness and to me greatness is different than being the best
06:47like joe burrow's the best quarterback they've ever had but is he the greatest he's not there yet
06:51and i would like to see him get there through these big moments and answering the call when
06:55they need it and uh we're gonna have another shot at that this season oh man there's so much
07:00to work with there what is anderson without the one super bowl appearance he was so good like
07:04underrated criminally underrated they say ken anderson no doubt i'd love to play with that um
07:11interesting how the bengals and the bills can be compared with each other on this front how when
07:16if this isn't going too far joe like when organizations just are their their reputations
07:23are so entrenched for losing or you know being frugal or if that's even different just what what they were
07:30and then you get a quarterback as these two teams both did that looks just like almost too good for
07:37the organization just you know this is impossible how they almost always get the benefit of the doubt
07:42alan has had his share of big game losses too but rarely does anybody really blame him i mean once
07:49in a
07:50while now denver was what turnovers and they scored 30 points pushing back on it the whole time like it
07:57was always mcdermott in the defense i'm like i got the ball with a minute to go come on i
08:01expect to
08:02win one of these there there is that school of thought but there's also like for every one of
08:07those phone calls we get we get 30 about brandon bean right and they're 98 and 50 not including
08:14playoffs in the last eight years so the bills and the bengals i think are both teams where a great
08:19superstar quarterback can maybe get away with a lot not that they necessarily shouldn't at times but
08:25that's almost never the blame almost never seems to reach them i think you're 100 right and i you
08:32know i i hear the conversation about the bills all the time being here uh so much of it was
08:37on mcdermott
08:37after these games right how many calls did you get on mcdermott well now that's not there uh if
08:42people like brady and we'll see how that he goes as a head coach but uh you could see maybe
08:47a little
08:47shift towards more of an eye on alan and now maybe the excuse is still there that you know he
08:51doesn't have
08:52the weapons but you make the trade for a receiver you continue to add to that side of the ball
08:56and
08:57at some point that conversation may go there or the angst may go towards josh allen yeah well and
09:04the coaching change prop plays into that in more ways than one because if you and it depends on how
09:11you want to perceive it but brady i think in a lot of fans minds is allen's guy right he
09:18was his
09:18quarterback's coach he got elevated the coordinator when that opening came and they've hired him as
09:23head coach of course they're not going to hire a guy as the new head coach replacing mcdermott after
09:28nine years that allen doesn't want so he's sort of he's sort of on the i don't know he's he's
09:35on the
09:35spot now with brady i think to some extent and again like i said i think that's fun i think
09:42that's okay if
09:43you're looking at it and saying i want drama i want to see this guy i want to see our
09:48franchise
09:48our golden boy here with the ball in his hands down by six points with a minute and 40 to
09:55go
09:55with one time out in the afc championship game i want to see that these are the moments that you
10:01remember forever you want the pressure you want the spotlight on them you want them in prime time games
10:05so that everyone can watch what we watch for 17 weeks and say look at this guy look how good
10:11he is
10:11he is everything that i've been waiting for for this franchise and you just want him to come
10:16through in those moments but to get to that moment and have that pressure is a privilege
10:19with joe goodberry you mentioned burrow's reference burrow's age earlier might be interesting for
10:27people to know he is older than lamar jackson he was drafted two years later but he is a number
10:34like a month older than jackson burrow's 29 jackson's 29 allen and mahomes are both 30 allen just turned
10:4030 herbert is 28 nicks is 26 even though he's not been in the league for very long but he
10:46came in
10:46old lawrence is 26 only may is 23 anyone else i want in the afc watson is 30 by the
10:55way watson is
10:56only 30 so i don't want him you don't want it forget i mentioned watson joe that schedule wow it's
11:03funny
11:03how it works i'm not sure this is the only time in the rotation where a team gets both south
11:08divisions
11:09but so many times those are the weak spots and the afc you're waiting for right yes like every four
11:16years and sometimes it just feels like this is always the case where that's really soft but that's
11:23what you've got we were talking maybe you were listening we were talking about the one seed about
11:27the bills as we always do every off season and i think cincinnati is a key team in this because
11:33you
11:34need the other divisions to have to be competitive i think probably so that one team just doesn't run
11:40roughshod through it and the ravens or even the bengals i suppose if the ravens slip maybe baltimore
11:46is a team that's dangerous in that way i don't know i don't think the afc west will have that
11:50i think
11:51it's too good and if jacksonville and houston are both good then maybe the south won't either
11:56the the bills might need cincinnati in a weird way to hang around and you know battle baltimore
12:02to end up with buffalo uh as the one seed and maybe that's you know the other way around too
12:07you
12:07might feel like you need new england yep exactly what i was going to say it's kind of like the
12:13you
12:13know you when the tom brady era patriots were going and they just ran through the afc east it was
12:18like
12:18okay they're going to win 14 games right uh just because they'd go pretty much almost every time five and
12:24one or six and oh in the division well yeah and the ac north has been so tough for a
12:28long time
12:29hopefully the steelers are taking a step back or maybe more indecision and that not really make
12:34taking definitely not taking a step forward with aaron rogers uh hopefully not and for my sake but
12:39you know if you can look at baltimore and say i don't know that they got better in a big
12:45way i mean
12:45trey hendrickson is a great pass rusher and they had some pass rush issues last year but they have a
12:50lot
12:50of holes and that offensive line has a lot of issues still uh they need a lot of young guys
12:54to step up and step their game up in a big way and become big players for them but if
12:59i were just
12:59looking at the rosters and saying one for one uh the bangles are probably edging out the ravens
13:05just a little bit i think the ravens are still slight favorite from betting odds but i think it's
13:09really really close and for the bangles it's specifically they need to come out hot again that
13:15story hasn't gone away really uh i i think they are two different offenses a lot of times early in
13:20the year versus what they end up being uh midpoint and then you know towards the end of the year
13:25they
13:25seem to be a team that figures it out as they go but it that's going to ruin your chance
13:30of getting
13:30a number one seed or fighting for it uh if you're starting off one and two or two and two
13:35well it's
13:36you know the one number one seed you better rattle off 10 wins at some point to catch yourself back
13:39up
13:40to it and the bangles really haven't shown that early season uh get off the way that a number one
13:45seed typically needs to have you know joe we you know anytime we visit with someone who
13:50covers and talks about and writes about another team i'm gonna pop the our lads depth chart open
13:57on my desktop and it really stands out looking at the bangles on offense and on defense and this
14:04isn't surprising it's just another way to make an example of how much work they felt needed to be done
14:10on defense the the starter column on the our lads offense is all the same color it's all guys that
14:17have been there there's no there's no purple there's no green there's no orange there's there's nothing
14:22it's all static right there are three spots on the second team offense where there are draft picks and
14:29they're all mid-round guys fourth through sixth round the defense on the other hand has four new guys in
14:36the starter column all free agents and then there's three more guys on on the second team two draft
14:42picks and another free agency got seven guys you know seven spots on the defensive depth chart on the
14:48first you know two rungs of it that are new obviously four starting spots so that that just really jumped
14:55out at me i very rarely see that kind of disparity team to team when you know i'm doing this
15:01exercise
15:01looking at whomever we're talking to uh but it really stands out with you guys there's one player
15:08on defense left from the 2021 2022 two years of super bowl afc championship and that's bj hill at
15:14defensive tackle everyone else was either drafted in 2022 or after didn't play much dax hill was 2022
15:21didn't play much his rookie year so everyone pretty much is afterwards and you're right it's a lot of free
15:26agents and it's a lot of guys they draft in the last two three years um they have seen
15:31the writing on the wall i think that part one was that they knew if they're going to pay burrow
15:36and chase and higgins they're going to have to invest through the draft on defense and they're
15:40going to lose some free agents along the way uh and so that was prepared for they tried to draft
15:44a
15:44bunch of guys a lot of them did not pan out and when you do that you're in a hole
15:49right away so what
15:50they have to do to counteract that they had to go out in free agency and they had to get
15:53guys like
15:54jonathan allen and dexter lawrence and boy a mouth a and kyle dugger and brian cook uh so you know
16:00if
16:00if those guys can pan out for you if they're veterans that can stabilize you i don't think
16:04there's a better one for one replacement in free agency then no offense to you guys and to geno stone
16:11but to from geno stone to brian cook from one of the worst tacklers in the league and effort-wise
16:17stone
16:17is probably the poster child for a lot of bengals fans for their defense the last two years to go
16:22to
16:22brian cook who's one of the better tackling three safeties in the league uh very steady player for the
16:28chiefs the last three years you know he's been there four years but the last three years starting
16:32that one-for-one replacement at that position where the bengals have a lot of issues since losing jesse
16:37bates and von bell they're expecting that to be a big boost to their communication and what they can
16:42do on the back half again uh the way they used to when they had good safeties that's the big
16:46one for
16:46me other than dexter lawrence we already talked about but the pass rush big big for them after losing
16:51trey hendrickson they brought in jonathan allen at defensive tackle was probably playing too many snaps
16:55former first round pick they think they can reduce his snaps and get him at a pass rush role
16:59and and extend his career boy a mafia coming off the super bowl run with the seahawks very good
17:05postseason uh as an edge rusher day one signing as well in free agency and then they draft cassius
17:10howell out of texas a&m with their first pick which they have a second round pick uh who is
17:16a pass rush
17:16specialist so i think they're going to try and manufacture it with a wave of eight guys coming
17:21at you rather than just pray hendrickson just a couple minutes left with joe goodberry you
17:25slipped in a reference to the steelers earlier what do you actually expect
17:30i don't know to be honest they're a collection of individual talents that i like and players that
17:36i like like on his own i like dk metcalf on his own i like michael pitman um on his
17:42own i like jaylen
17:43warren but together the offense was dysfunctional in a lot of ways and that's why they probably went out
17:48and got mccarthy and wanted to start over on that side of the ball the offensive lines got some issues
17:53in terms of i thought they secured their interior offensive line the last couple years and then
17:57troy fatano their former first round pick probably going to play left tackle they spend their first
18:01round back on a right tackle this year so maybe that'll get secured and they'll be okay uh like
18:05i like darnell washington as a player at that tight end i like pat prior move that tight end so
18:09as the
18:10as a collection i like the individual individual guys on offense you can say the same about the defense
18:15they have individual stars on that side but something seems dysfunctional or did under tomlin
18:22at the end there and maybe that's the boost they need to recover and just reset things by getting
18:27mccarthy in here but i'm not a big fan of mike mccarthy i thought his offense was archaic in a
18:31lot of
18:31ways very stagnant not a lot of motion not a lot of creativity uh they're not going to scheme a
18:36lot of
18:36things up so you need these weapons to make plays one-on-one and maybe they have enough to do
18:41that but
18:41overall i don't think it's a very good roster and i think they've got some really exploitable holes
18:48that i hope the you know other teams can take advantage of i'm tired of seeing the steelers
18:52get into the playoffs with a winning record and maybe it'll be different without tomlin
18:55and they just get absolutely destroyed in the wild card round that's another thing that's annoying
19:00isn't it and baltimore would feel the same way maybe at least last couple times when pittsburgh gets in
19:04where are you on baltimore joe they're going to be a pain because mark jackson is a freak show at
19:12quarterback and still he's gotten more efficient as he's going on and it's that means their offense
19:17is going to be good despite holes on the offensive line despite not having i mean zay jones is a
19:22good
19:22receiver but is he like an alpha number one i don't know if he is i don't know if you
19:25need one
19:26especially when they can run the ball the way they do and they have good tight ends with mark
19:30andrews they lost isaiah likely which i think will actually be a big hit towards them uh but on
19:34defense i think they're slow at corner they're getting older at that position uh they were
19:38exploitable at safety last year and their pass rush was bad but they got trey hendrickson so that does
19:43that offset connect get them back where they need to be i think they're going to be tough because
19:47again they got lamar joe i'm glad to hear the friendship it seems to be trending up uh the season's
19:53still a ways away so hopefully we get to talk to you again before then what's the best way for
19:59us to help you make money what can we what can we tell or have you tell people to to
20:04subscribe to
20:05joe goodberry that's a great question because i just put my notice in at my day job of 11 years
20:11and so that's that's over uh because i just started and i'm now one of the co-hosts of the
20:16locked on
20:17bengals podcast along with the other things i do so it's kind of offsetting and if i'm not going to
20:22take the leap now when am i going to do it i'm 39 years old and i've been doing this
20:26my 18th season
20:27covering the bengals best place to find me to find all of that is on twitter at joe goodberry
20:32congrats yeah you got a good to hear thank you feel good maybe it's a little bit nerve-wracking but
20:37that's that's normal sure yeah it's got to be taking the plunge but liberating too so good for you
20:43not thank you not to you know give away too much so many people i know have bet on themselves
20:47as they
20:48say and made it work and i know uh from your following you'd be a great a great uh bet
20:53on having
20:53that happen as well thanks for today joe thanks guys we'll talk soon joe goodberry on the west her
21:00hotline the bengals open with the bucks they've never played
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