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00:00Turn the mic on, Mike.
00:01I like the Bills discussion as we start to get a little bit closer to the season
00:07and, you know, with an eye on the schedule, new coach, new stadium.
00:13I like that, and I'm always going to be ready to have that conversation,
00:17sort of like what is this season going to be like?
00:19It's going to be different, so different in a couple of ways,
00:23starting with the facility, but just sort of it's the end of an era.
00:30With McDermott leaving, and anyway, so that's always good.
00:34I think that's always good.
00:35I did want to say something about the Sabres, though, too,
00:38with this Dylan Larkin business.
00:41Okay.
00:42And, you know, nobody take this personally, please, because you shouldn't,
00:48but the Sabres made this huge jump this year, fully to their credit.
00:55We said it all.
00:57Finally, right?
00:58I mean, finally, they're at least respectable, but even maybe great.
01:04Like, that just all happened.
01:06It all rushed in, and we loved it.
01:10And you want to think that a lot of things will be different now.
01:13The credibility stuff with Kekalainen and, like, the seriousness of the organization.
01:19Cap going up.
01:20Will that, will they play along, right?
01:23I mean, just, you can be optimistic now.
01:26You should be.
01:27It's not just kids that might fill holes.
01:30These are also, like, pretty close to established good players,
01:35even though the sample size isn't that much.
01:37It's not just Rochester, right?
01:40We saw Ausland.
01:41We saw Hellenius.
01:43We saw these guys perform well.
01:45We've seen Kulik.
01:46Right.
01:46And even Kulik.
01:47So, every reason to be optimistic.
01:50I doubt that their reputation on the league stage for attracting players is much different, though.
01:59I think it's at a point where, and this is always something where you have to be careful
02:04because there are hundreds of players, and who knows what particular reasons a certain player might have
02:10for where he wants to go.
02:12I think they got off the mat and established that they couldn't be taken seriously.
02:19I don't expect the Dylan Larkins of the future to want to play here, necessarily.
02:24Like, I think there are places like Buffalo that have done well longer
02:31or have just more to offer in terms of endorsements or what
02:36that will always make the Sabres' job in this area tough.
02:40It's not just about palm trees, and I'm, you know, it's in the past anyway.
02:45But here comes Dylan Larkin, who wants a trade from Detroit.
02:49I mean, a legacy franchise, even if they haven't won.
02:52Yep.
02:52He wants a trade from Detroit.
02:53Detroit, where does he want to go?
02:54Florida?
02:55Wow, really?
02:56Hmm, that's a shocker.
02:59Vegas?
03:00Wow, really?
03:00Same category, right?
03:02I mean, teams that have won, they're always good.
03:06And weather, lifestyle, taxes, right?
03:09I mean, these are real things.
03:11And then Minnesota, which is different than Florida and Vegas,
03:16and that could have been a Buffalo, or that could have been a team at random almost.
03:23Still, though, this is going to be like, this is the norm.
03:27This is where a lot of guys, stars that have control over their situation and make lots of money with
03:36power are going to want to go.
03:38And if they want to come to Buffalo, that's great.
03:40But it's a little weird, you know, for what else is out there.
03:45And again, I don't want to sound defensive.
03:48Just like, there are, of course, very personal reasons that players would have for this that could include or exclude
03:54anybody.
03:55But, you know, am I wrong here?
03:57Like, did the Sabres rise to a level where they're, like, now a destination?
04:06No, I don't think you do that in one year.
04:09I think it's a lot.
04:10It's a lot.
04:11But I think their reputation will hang around.
04:18Like, they're going to need to be good for a few years before it really, I think, changes in a
04:23meaningful way.
04:24Like, for one thing, let me just mention, like, hockey players are always going to believe in the play state.
04:30Oh, we can do it.
04:31I got a good bunch of guys, whatever.
04:32All the chatter, you've heard it for all these off seasons where the Sabres ended up never really gaining any
04:38headway at all.
04:41But, like, realistically, guys in the league have probably been on teams or they know guys who were on teams
04:48that thought they'd turned the corner.
04:51We got it now.
04:52We got the corner.
04:53Everybody knows it.
04:53We got to work.
04:54We got to do this.
04:54We got to do that.
04:55And it just didn't stick.
04:57It's one year.
04:59I believe in it.
05:01I think there's enough proof all through the year, like a lot of the numbers.
05:06Like, I think they're provably good.
05:10But everybody's not a fan of the numbers, necessarily.
05:13And everyone's not going to respect them.
05:14And everyone's not going to just assume the Sabres are like an unstoppable locomotive now.
05:20They might still look at them and go, well, okay, it was four months plus two.
05:23Okay, six months maybe.
05:25You know, get back to me when you show me this is really sticky.
05:29And you can't prove it's sticky, you know, now.
05:33Like, you just – yes, you've improved your image.
05:36But, man, I think their image was taken – had taken such a beating that it will take more than,
05:45you know, winning seven playoff games, which is, you know, what they did.
05:51More than six good months.
05:52In the end.
05:52Yeah.
05:54So, I was not at all surprised when I saw the news about – I didn't even – oh, there's
05:59news about Dylan Larkin's three teams.
06:01Are we one of them?
06:01I didn't even have the thought.
06:03And that's not just defeatist Buffalonian guy.
06:06I just thought, no, we're not there yet.
06:09You only – you wouldn't know.
06:10So, you would only think it would have been really strange.
06:12Yeah, right.
06:13If he has a list of three teams.
06:15Right.
06:15The team that just ended a 14-year playoff drought is on it.
06:19Right.
06:19As opposed to, I don't know, the teams that have won the last three Stanley Cups, which is what Florida
06:23and Vegas, I think, are.
06:25Right?
06:25Did Vegas not win before Florida won two in a row?
06:27No.
06:28No.
06:28That's wrong because Florida lost to – no, they lost to Vegas.
06:31No, yes.
06:32You're right.
06:32Yeah, so they are – those are the three –
06:35I'm thinking of the year Vegas lost to Washington.
06:37Right.
06:38That was 18, I think.
06:40So, yeah, that was their first year in the league.
06:44It was Vegas losing in the final of Washington.
06:46Anyway, yeah, I just think it'll take – it takes more than what we've got so far.
06:51There are always a number of teams in the league that you can buy as a contender.
06:58There's never just one.
06:59Like, you're never going to be the only contender.
07:02There might be – how many teams – the season is coming to a close.
07:06How many teams in the NHL, as it comes to an end, contended this year?
07:14Ones in the finals that wasn't even good, they would count.
07:18I mean, they weren't even good.
07:20So, it's a – is it half the league?
07:23Is it more than that?
07:24What's Edmonton right now?
07:26You know, what's Washington?
07:2995 points, same as Vegas.
07:30What's Washington?
07:31I mean, couldn't they sell the – we got Alex Ovechkin.
07:35Come win one more with Alex.
07:36We have won a Stanley Cup.
07:39Like, there are just arguments all over the place.
07:41And the Sabres would have to win that argument for a free agent.
07:45Well, yeah.
07:46You know, to connect this back to the conversation we've been having about Tuck on and off for months,
07:53and certainly, you know, again today,
07:56I've mentioned this one other time when it sort of came up organically like it just has now.
08:01It's not a point I think about a lot, and I don't – I don't think at all it's –
08:08it's like a hammer.
08:10It's a closer to – you absolutely have to keep Alex Tuck.
08:15But when you think about the Sabres' reputation and where they are now,
08:23you know what probably does not help their reputation with players like you're talking about
08:28to get them to waive their no-move clauses?
08:30If as soon as you end a 15-year playoff-less life,
08:35you let the assistant captain and your second leading scorer walk out the door
08:39because you don't want to pay them.
08:41Again, I'm not telling you that's why you do it.
08:45But I think it's got to be some part of the formula.
08:48Like, and that's why you've got to do more than just be good for this from December until May.
08:54Because if you do decide to let Alex Tuck walk,
09:00and Jarmo Kekalainen does what you've been –
09:02finds reasonably priced younger replacements,
09:06and they figure out a way, and they have another 100-point season or win the –
09:11they have another year where they're this, right?
09:14Maybe they don't win it, whatever.
09:15But they're this.
09:17Then okay.
09:19But there'll be a lot of people in the league, they don't have to be right,
09:23that would watch Alex Tuck walk out the door and go,
09:27Sabres, they always do this.
09:29This is what they do.
09:29They get good, and they let their co-captains sign with the Rangers and the Flyers in a single summer.
09:36Dominic Hasek needs to leave.
09:37Pat LaFontaine.
09:39It's just – I mean, you've got to be old to remember all this stuff.
09:43But I think it will ding them until they get back on the ice
09:48and show that they can be the kind of team they were last year, that it worked.
09:52But if they let them go, there's going to be a lot of skeptics.
09:56I don't think necessarily in town as much as around the league.
10:01Well, I don't disagree, but this to me is all about messaging.
10:07This is one where I want to be Kekelein and put me in that chair.
10:10I can do it.
10:11I'll explain this move.
10:13I think he's already done a pretty good job on Tuck without going as far as to say,
10:18like, yeah, this guy's crazy if he thinks we're going to pay him that.
10:20Like, he's not going – he's not insane about it,
10:23but he is matter-of-factly describing the situation, yes or no.
10:28I want to be fair here.
10:29In a way that doesn't sound like Darcy, you know, maybe that's not fair.
10:37I think the Sabres with Regeer had an image where they were weak.
10:43They came off weak.
10:46And losing guys and just, you know, whatever different chapter you want to point to.
10:53That's what the Vanek offer sheet was, you know, so long ago anyway.
10:57But I don't think Kekelein has to suffer for that.
11:01I don't think he has to come off weak.
11:03And he can do that.
11:05I mean, there's sort of an image part of it that's, you know,
11:09just not something that you can necessarily control.
11:11But I think he comes off, and he's already got a reputation in the league
11:15that's, I think, positive.
11:18And, I mean, you and I can defend it if Tuck leaves.
11:22Sure.
11:22Like, this doesn't mean we're an also-ran.
11:24This doesn't mean it's the 90s.
11:26This just means that this guy's 30, and we thought he was really good,
11:31but we have a good young group of players, and we're going to do that instead.
11:37And we just didn't see eye-to-eye on the money.
11:39Next.
11:40Like, that's really just about, I think you can, people are going to say what you said anyway.
11:46Like, you're right.
11:46That's absolutely right.
11:48No matter how Kekelein it sounds, what's the result?
11:52But what does it matter?
11:54You know, he has to convince his team, right, his players, that this is intentional,
12:00and the players know the landscape.
12:02They know how it works.
12:05Guys come and go.
12:06So I don't think that would shock anybody if he left
12:09or necessarily mean that the Sabres are just, you know, patsies again.
12:13No, I would think the guys on the Sabres are bracing for it,
12:16just like some of the fan bases.
12:19I'm sure they don't want to lose him, and nor do I,
12:21but I'm bracing for it because it seems like the most realistic outcome
12:25sitting here right now.
12:28Yeah, I mean, I agree with you that Kekelein it sounds firmer and stronger,
12:38and he also just got here.
12:43Like, so this is the first test, if you will,
12:48and I think he can very quickly get put over in the Darcy column if he lets Tuck go.
12:55Well, what has to happen is that he's got to pull the right strings
13:00to make sure that doesn't happen.
13:02And then you're at, all right, well, I believe in this guy.
13:08He took that chance, whatever you want to say.
13:11I mean, signing him is taking a chance, too, of course.
13:13It's all a chance.
13:14It's sports.
13:17But I think thinking about their ability to ever get off of guys,
13:2410-team or 20-team or whatever team, no trade lists,
13:30I think Tuck is somewhat of a very short term.
13:33It's only right now, but it's a referendum on that.
13:37Guys in the league are not going to think about how Darcy Regeer sounded 20 years ago,
13:42or even care about how Yarmulkekeleinen sounded yesterday.
13:46Do you have a juggernaut, and you aren't going to keep going?
13:53I don't know.
13:54Like, I think that will damage them temporarily, I think almost irrefutably.
13:59Well, I mean, I think both sides of this argument are reasonable.
14:05It would vary person to person.
14:07How much does it matter what a certain person thinks of that?
14:11I mean, there's only so many free agents.
14:14The Sabres, with or without Tuck, especially with, do not have room for many additions.
14:20Like, they're not a team that's going to be fishing around.
14:23Like, they have been so many times trying to find anybody to come over and play with them.
14:26You know, so it's not a point in time, I think, where they have a lot to lose in this
14:32area if he goes.
14:33Because they still have their roster, mostly anyway.
14:37And you can go get a player or two to augment it.
14:41Yeah, I mean, there's a lot to say about it.
14:43Well, I wonder how complicated already, like, hypothetically, right?
14:50We think, I think we definitely agree here, that Kekalainen sounds like he's bracing all of us for Tuck to
14:57leave.
14:57That's what he sounds like to me.
14:59A toss, right?
15:01Right, so let's say, you know, you get there and that happens.
15:09Or, I got ahead of myself.
15:12Right now, you're thinking, you're him, you're the hockey department, you're having meetings,
15:16and you're trying to figure out how to replace Alex Tuck.
15:20Or, just make the team better without Alex Tuck on it.
15:24He's leaving, we gotta do what we gotta do.
15:26I wonder how many ideas are getting stricken off the board because of no movement clauses already.
15:32Like, there is not a free agent, I don't think, that you should be eager to sign that himself is
15:41gonna replace Alex Tuck.
15:42Like, that's why Alex Tuck is about to cash in in free agency, because he's, he's, he's like one guy
15:48that, it's probably all regrettable money, but he's one guy this year, like, okay, well that's the best guy out
15:56there.
15:56He's, oh, he's got 30 goals, you know.
15:59But, anybody else in that marketplace, you're, you're, you're probably not, it's not a plug and play, I found my
16:05guy.
16:05Um, so it's trades, the trade market is where I've been thinking about, and I don't know, like I, some
16:12guys have that protection that you can't even, that guy's already got no movement clauses, what?
16:19He's been in the league for, it's only a second contract, whatever.
16:23Like, I wonder how many ideas there already were, they tried to get Colton Pareko, and that, they got embarrassed
16:28by that.
16:29I mean, there's no other way to say it.
16:30I mean, they, a trade leaked out, it wasn't their fault, it leaked out, but it leaked out, and, at
16:35least I don't think it was their fault, and they, they got, they got turned down.
16:41And, so, I, I just.
16:43Well, this is actually a good thing, maybe.
16:45I, I think, okay, I want to hear about that, because I, I, I think it's, it's, it could already
16:50be a problem.
16:51That they're, like, what about this guy?
16:53Oh, he's kind of, do we know his age?
16:55Can we find out if he'll waive it?
16:57How hard is it to make, you know, plans for Tuck leaving when you don't know who you have access
17:03to and don't?
17:06I, I only suggest this is maybe a net positive.
17:12If a much higher percentage of the league is tied up than it used to be, than it was 20
17:18years ago, well, then a lot of teams have this challenge.
17:21Whether they're a supposed destination team or not.
17:25Like, they're just, you know, there, there are maybe stricter limits to what you have the ability to do in,
17:31in player movement.
17:32And, I think that's a good thing, because the Sabres have almost a made team.
17:37Like, they, they have 15 good players.
17:41You know, they have, they have most of their roster intact.
17:43They don't have to, you know, if Tuck leaves, so be it.
17:46That's a hole to fill.
17:47But, they don't have a lot of that.
17:48They don't really have any, anything else of that, really.
17:52So, if it's a year where I can't get guys, that's good for me, because I'm already in pretty good
17:57shape.
17:57And, the other teams need guys, and they can't do it either.
18:00So, I don't know if that's true, but it seems like it is.
18:05That, because of this point, young players getting long-term contracts, like, right out of the womb.
18:11And, the power the players have to deny certain player movement all adds to that.
18:18That there's just not as much for a GM to go do.
18:22Unless you're a team like Florida or Tampa, and there's financial advantages there too, tax dollars, that kind of thing,
18:30that are, like, already.
18:32Where do we start this?
18:32Dylan Markin, three teams he's willing to be traded.
18:35Florida's one of them.
18:35Tampa's not on the list.
18:36I don't know.
18:37But, like, those teams will get access to better guys.
18:42They have a better, a deeper pool to swim in than you do.
18:45If you're on a guy's list, and they're not.
18:48Like, you're more likely, if you're the GM of the Florida Panthers, like, I mean, this Larkin thing, it's hilarious
18:56that he submitted those three teams.
18:58But, if Detroit ends up in a few weeks at, we want to do something, we need to do something,
19:06we don't want to just keep him here and hold him prisoner, they might end up making the best deal
19:12they can with a team that's on that list.
19:15So, like, Florida ends up with Dylan Larkin.
19:18Let's just say.
19:19I don't know what they have to give up here, youth-wise.
19:22I mean, it's such a veteran team already.
19:25They land Dylan Larkin to play behind Alexander Barkoff.
19:28Oh, my God.
19:31And I'm over here, Alex Tuck leaves, and where am I?
19:34You know, like, guys will wave for those teams, and so, as hard as it is for the huddled masses
19:42of teams to do business, the Sabres are not an exclusive company there.
19:47They may be at the bottom of a long pileup of teams that aren't desirable, and I think still aren't,
19:54but there are teams that can and will get those players, and that makes it really tough.
20:02Fair enough.
20:04There aren't that many of those teams, I guess I want to say.
20:08And so, what you have to do, if you, the Sabres have always been, to some extent or another, disadvantaged.
20:15They've always been this.
20:17Always.
20:18So, what can you do about it?
20:20What you have to be able to do about it is get in, and then win.
20:24Somehow, win that matchup.
20:26Somebody else beats them.
20:27I mean, a year ago, Florida's two-time winner, and, you know, you could have predicted that they would slide
20:35a little bit because it takes a toll, but we wouldn't have thought they would have the season they did.
20:41Even with Barkoff out all year, I didn't think they were going to be in the basement like they were.
20:45And that didn't happen until September.
20:47Right.
20:47So, you're lining up for free agency and different things last year.
20:52It would have been just as popular a destination as now, at least, and they were terrible.
21:00So, and by the way, for all the time we've spent on Alex Tuck's age, what's Larkin?
21:0729.
21:0829.
21:09They're both 29.
21:10I don't know.
21:13803-0550 for your thoughts.
21:15Really interesting area.
21:17Really interesting aspect of this is, do the Sabres need to overpay because of their image or any of these
21:27points?
21:27Location, their past.
21:30Should that matter?
21:32You're in the room with Kekalainen.
21:34What do you say?
21:36I really don't want it to matter.
21:38I don't want it to get me into a, you know, the wrong car.
21:42I said at the outset of making what ended up being a very long-winded point, like, this is not
21:47why you do it.
21:49It's not why you just meet his demand.
21:52But it's also, you can't pretend it's a non-factor.
21:57Like, it's public.
21:59People are paying attention to how you handle your business.
22:02The Sabres have a certain kind of reputation, and all I'm saying is, there's a way to view that from
22:08as far away as you want to get.
22:10That's, well, there's the Sabres again.
22:12There is.
22:14803-0550, again, the number.
22:16Back after the update.
22:17Mike Schoep and the Bulldog.
22:18WGR.
22:18Apple car.
22:19Cut the car.
22:19Uber car.
22:19It's fine.
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