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00:00If I don't, I got to open the door.
00:02Well, just a peek behind the curtain.
00:05If you're watching us today, we're both sweating profusely.
00:08Yeah, it's gross.
00:09With us now, hopefully not sweating profusely, is Mike Giardi.
00:14Very comfortable.
00:14Boston Sports Journal, Boston famous for so many things, including Boston Stadium.
00:21Yes, isn't that lovely Boston Stadium?
00:23Are they trying to smoke you out of the building?
00:25Maybe.
00:25What is happening?
00:26They might be, Mike.
00:27I don't know.
00:27They're out of ideas, Mike.
00:29They're out of ideas to get rid of us.
00:32We're streaming, so the shirts and skins is not going to work in here.
00:36I don't think our audience is ready for that, but I don't know what else to do.
00:41You know what, though?
00:42Now, think about that.
00:43If you went shirts and skins, maybe that would force management's hand,
00:47because you don't know what kind of reaction you would get on the stream,
00:50and now they might be like, you know what?
00:52All right, we've got to go in there and fix this.
00:54Gastly is a word that comes to mind, in my case, anyway.
00:57It might require pants and skins to get that kind of a, to get a meeting, but who knows?
01:03Maybe you're right.
01:05Mike, so it's been a while.
01:07We always enjoy your visits.
01:09How has this Patriots offseason been to cover?
01:13And I ask that, you know, not to be cute or funny.
01:17I feel like this would be the worst kind of a story to have to cover, to talk about,
01:23because it's so personal with Mike Vrabel.
01:25And, you know, it's also interesting on a media level, of course, too, with Diana Rossini.
01:31But has it been awkward, Mike?
01:35Yeah, I would say unpleasant would be a word that I would use and say would come to mind.
01:41I think brief, but maybe the first week, it was really a media story, more than it was a football
01:48story.
01:50Because, look, two consenting adults, if you are to believe that there was a relationship there.
01:55These are two consenting adults, married, but, you know, whatever.
01:59We don't know the backstories or anything like that.
02:02But then when it became clear, I reported early on, some of the players were like, eh, what's happening here?
02:09Why are we talking about this?
02:11Like, this guy tells us, you know, oftentimes, you know, make good decisions on and off the field.
02:16And was he making good decisions?
02:19But I would say, and then, of course, he misses the third day of the draft, which is unheard of.
02:24Because I still can't find an example of a coach willingly not being there.
02:31The team pushed back a little bit.
02:34You know, I think there was, like, why are you guys covering this story?
02:36I think there was some of that.
02:37I think, you know, which made it more uncomfortable.
02:41But I would tell you the last month or so, the energy has shifted.
02:45And everybody's kind of gotten off that.
02:48Not that it still doesn't, it's not, I mean, it's still there, you know, obviously.
02:52But, like, there's been nothing new.
02:55And based on what we've seen at practice and from the people that I've talked to behind the scenes, like,
03:01Vrabel's back to being Vrabel.
03:02And, you know, that's probably the most important thing for the organization and for the football team is that your
03:08coach is as dialed in as he was last year when you helped resurrect the program.
03:13Mike, was there a moment through this, or might there still be on the horizon?
03:19Anything that you thought could cause the Patriots to move on him?
03:25I mean, the only thing I could think of, you know, would be that when all this stuff came out
03:31and then more stuff came out after the, you know, the initial sort of denial to the page six is
03:38that if he told them, hey, nothing, like, this is it.
03:40You know, whatever he told them, he told them, and they said, there's going to be no more surprises, and
03:44he said there'd be no more surprises.
03:46And the only thing that would get me to think that they would consider it is if there were more
03:50surprises, which, again, we haven't had any of those since the outset of the store.
03:57Man, it always drives me nuts when you get the, why are you talking about this, retort.
04:02Oh, yeah.
04:03It's the worst.
04:04Yeah, I don't subscribe to it.
04:07I had a lot of people, you know, yell at me, you know, fans or whatever, some of our readers,
04:12like, these are two adults.
04:14I'm like, yeah, they are.
04:15And I wouldn't cover the story if the story didn't impact football.
04:19We could all look at it.
04:20It might be a talker around the water cooler.
04:23It might be a talker on sports talk radio, but the moment, to me, it started to impact football was
04:30the moment it became the story that I had to write about and write about often and talk about often.
04:35And, again, not pleasant, and I didn't delve into their families and whatever.
04:41It was strictly about this is what happened.
04:45Okay, what's it doing to the football team?
04:47And that's, you know, that's what I'm here for.
04:50Yeah.
04:51I mean, I can get a little bit carried away, but whenever there's a Bills – I'm not even sure
04:56what the last one would have been.
04:57Maybe it's a long time ago.
04:58But whenever there's a thing like that and whatever it is and fans come at you with – they think
05:04you're tearing it down.
05:06Like, they think that by talking about it, I'm causing harm to the Bills.
05:11And, like, you know what, can guys like yourself, Mike, or us, if I may, get some sort of benefit
05:18of the doubt for our own judgment, right?
05:19I mean, like, you're very reasonable in how you lay that out.
05:22This is where the line gets drawn.
05:24And, you know, sometimes off-the-field things can be meaningful to an organization, and that's what we have to
05:33decide when we're deciding whether to talk about a thing.
05:37So, I don't know.
05:38That one, like I said, always drives me crazy.
05:40No, it definitely – there were moments where it definitely sort of went in my ear hole in the wrong
05:44way.
05:44And I would say, you know, I think some of the people on the beat did a terrible job.
05:49Like, if I'm just going to be a media columnist for a second, like, there are people who just didn't
05:54want to do the story.
05:55So, they didn't do the story.
05:57The only time they did anything with the story is if it was clear, like, we were talking about it.
06:04We were asking questions, and it was getting answers, and you'd be negligent in your job by not writing it
06:09up.
06:09But they were aggregators.
06:11They weren't the people that asked questions.
06:12And, you know, maybe their relationship will be better with the organization and some of the people in it, or
06:17Mike in particular, because they didn't ask questions.
06:21I don't really – I mean, that's ridiculous to me, but if that's the way it is, that's the way
06:25it is.
06:25I have no – I'm not trying to, like, wear the hero cape.
06:29Like, I'm just doing my job.
06:30So, yeah, that did burn me a little bit, I think, that just several people who are in an important
06:36position decided to sit this out.
06:38And I don't think that that's good business and good journalism, quite frankly.
06:43Mike, one last thing from me, at least, on this topic.
06:47Do you have any sense or do you get any sense from the Patriots themselves whether they're bracing for this
06:54to be, like, every Wednesday around the conference call?
07:00Opposing markets, like, you know, after games, like, that every city is going to be, you know, similar questions?
07:07Or do you think maybe, you know, will they – we've seen, like, media relations people step in and steer
07:14– we just watched the Vegas Golden Knights, you know, put Carter Hart in a bubble, basically.
07:19Like, you're not asking them about what happened in London, Ontario in 2018.
07:24Are they bracing for, like, this to be, like, sort of a tour of the country, so to speak, when
07:29they go –
07:29Well, I would say, for starters, that wonderful conference call that we used to have, that sort of went the
07:35way of the dodo bird about five or six years ago in terms of, like, I can't –
07:38I think Mike did one last year with the Tennessee media, which was obvious because it's, you know, he had
07:43past relationships.
07:45Wow.
07:45But I – that's sort of gone.
07:47I would say that they're – they'd be foolish not to acknowledge that there are going to be people that
07:54are going to come in there and ask questions when we're on the road.
08:00Realize there's probably going to be an element in the stands or, you know, that might get harassed.
08:04It might be signage, whatever.
08:06Like, that's just part of it.
08:07You created it.
08:08I'm sure they'll be mad about it.
08:09But, like, there's nothing you can do about it.
08:11But if the rules allow signs to be brought in or chants or whatever, they're probably going to get some
08:16of those.
08:17With Mike Giardi, Boston Sports Journal.
08:20Mike Schoep and the Bulldog here on WGR.
08:22Well, Mike, let's talk football.
08:24So here come the Patriots off a Super Bowl appearance.
08:28And, you know, I feel like I'm having the same conversation about them every time, which is just, like, but
08:34the schedule last year.
08:35They were good, but the schedule was so easy.
08:38How much for you does that tell you the story of last year's team?
08:44Like, is it a team that overachieved?
08:46Is it a team that just had pretty much a joyride?
08:49I mean, they had to be pretty good to do what they did.
08:53I give them a ton of credit because I think the schedule, you know, again, pitcher fans will rail against
08:58this.
08:59And some other outlets would, too.
09:00Like, you beat who's in front of you.
09:03And to their credit, they never had that slip up.
09:06You know, they won 16 out of 17 games.
09:09And there was probably four or five of those in there that, you know, the trap game, you know, that
09:13sort of concept.
09:14And they didn't allow that to happen.
09:16In many cases, they actually overwhelmed those teams.
09:19So I think there was a part of, we're able to use the line at one point.
09:24You know, I told the players, sometimes you have to believe before you see it.
09:29And I think the team sort of bought into that notion, like, hey, even at the one and two start,
09:33like, we're doing some really good things.
09:36It's happening.
09:37The foundation we laid in the spring and the summer is happening.
09:40And then when it took off, it was sort of like, this guy's a genius.
09:44You know, like, he was right.
09:45We can do this.
09:47And so, like I said, I give them a ton of credit for the way they mentally handled a lot
09:52of what happened.
09:53And I think they got a lot better as a football team over the course of the year, too, which,
09:57you know, that's what you're aiming for.
09:59Belichick used to say all the time, like, Brady, we want to be playing our best football after Thanksgiving.
10:04I think there was a stretch there where they did play their best football after Thanksgiving.
10:07And then, you know, they weathered a storm in the postseason where they played one elite defense after another and
10:14managed to survive those games,
10:16even if the offense wasn't at the same level it had been during the regular season.
10:19So, I guess what I would say after the whole thing and kind of going back and re-washing and
10:24going over my notes is that they're probably more talented than I gave them credit for.
10:30And so, and now I think the roster is even better than it was.
10:33Now the schedule will be more difficult.
10:35They're no longer the, you know, the sort of team that's flying under the radar.
10:39They're going to be the hunted team.
10:41And I think there'll be a little bit of a course correction.
10:43But I think it's a playoff team.
10:45And as you know, you get in the playoffs and who knows what can happen.
10:48They weathered the storm and they weathered two snowstorms in the process, in the playoffs.
10:55So, Bills and Patriots together, I mean, they're 1-2 in some order in every, you know, prediction, every betting
11:03site and whatever.
11:04It really does seem hard for me to, like, imagine a season where it's not these two teams as 1
11:11-2 in some order.
11:12With how backpedaling, how much backpedaling the Dolphins seem to have done and the Jets being probably still the Jets.
11:20I mean, do you see it any other way?
11:25Sure, multiple times.
11:27And, you know, more recently after having watched minicamp and whatnot, we were able to be in attendance for.
11:34And to me, it's like a toss-up.
11:37You just, if you go by position by position, it's almost like 11 wins for the Patriots, 11 wins for
11:43the, you know, like, to me, it's that even.
11:46So, I think there's going to be, you know, obviously injuries play a massive role, as they always do.
11:50Heaven forbid anything happens to either quarterback.
11:52And then you have the coaching question, you know, is Joe Brady, is he up to it?
11:58Because he's inheriting a football team that even though the owner said, oh, we don't have to win now, it's
12:03a win now, they're kind of in a win now, right?
12:07I mean, you have Josh Allen, you have some important pieces like that where you couldn't get over that, quote
12:13-unquote, playoff wall or playoff hump, however you phrased it.
12:15Well, you kept a guy that was part of it for at least a couple years who couldn't get you
12:20over that hump.
12:22So, I'm really curious about, I would say the edge for me right now would have to be with the
12:26Patriots slightly because of the coaching.
12:28Because we just don't know if Joe Brady can be the head coach that they think he can be.
12:32And Jim Leonard is wildly prey across the league.
12:37It doesn't matter who you talk to.
12:38But, like, this first time Colin plays in the National Football League.
12:41So, we'll see what that looks like as well.
12:43Right.
12:43And how long it'll take them or him to find the guys he wants and the spots he wants.
12:47Because there's a lot of that here so far this offseason.
12:50We've got guys putting on weight and dropping weight and changing it.
12:54So, yeah, there's a lot that has to come together.
12:57Mike, we know what the Bills did going into Josh Allen's third year, and that was trade for Stefan Diggs.
13:03Now, the Patriots did that last year, bringing Diggs in, you know, not in the form he was in 2020
13:09when he got here,
13:10but still a great year from him, I'd say, at his age.
13:13But A.J. Brown now is in the role of Diggs for Allen back in 2020.
13:19But it's also Dobbs, too, and that's reminiscent of, you know, the Bills, Cole Beasley, John Brown, eventually Diggs.
13:26What do you make of the two new receivers, at least?
13:31I was, I don't want to say unimpressed by Dobbs, but it just, I think it's coming a little bit
13:38slower, at least to what we saw.
13:40You know, we only saw three mandatory minicamp practices, and I want to say three OTAs over the course of
13:46the spring.
13:47It looks like he's still sort of figuring things out.
13:50Brown came in right away, and it was like, oh, yeah, that's A.J. Brown.
13:53You know, the back shoulder stuff, some of the contested stuff, like boxing dudes out.
13:59You know, he wasn't going up against Carlton Davis and Christian Gonzalez, but he looked very much like the A
14:05.J. Brown,
14:06who you've seen go over 1,000 yards in, I think, six of his seven seasons in the league.
14:10So there was almost like an instant chemistry between those two guys.
14:13I know they're talking about getting together again sometime in the next few weeks to kind of continue building on
14:18that.
14:19But that looked impressive, and there's more depth at that position, I think, than they've had.
14:23You know, you guys obviously know Matt Collins.
14:25He had a really good year last year.
14:28They're still high on Pop Douglas.
14:30They're high on Kyle Williams, their third-round pick from a year ago.
14:32So they feel like they have more there to throw at you than probably they have, I don't know, 15
14:40years, 20 years,
14:41maybe going back to the 2017, and I'm not comparing the two by any stretch of the imagination,
14:46but sort of just in terms of the amount of depth and, like, proven NFL players they have,
14:51that's sort of where the comparison comes from for me.
14:54Mike, maybe that answers this question.
14:57I wonder if May, Drake May, has, like, a level up that he can reach.
15:02You know, Bulldog mentioning Diggs for Allen.
15:04Diggs, I think, deserves a lot of credit for Allen's ascent.
15:08I mean, it was a – he launched at that point, and now he's a superstar in the league.
15:14May is 23.
15:15Allen is 30 now.
15:16So is Mahomes.
15:19Burrow and Jackson are coming up on 30 themselves.
15:21Like, it's – there's a spot here for May in this conference if he's on that level to, you know,
15:28maybe outlast those guys.
15:29That's sort of the long-term view.
15:31But if he has another level up to go, what would it be?
15:36Like, where would you think – or where do the Patriots say they want to see better from him, if
15:40anywhere?
15:42I'm glad you asked that because I just – I actually just wrote about this,
15:44and it's something that they're challenging him with, and it's about more control at the line of scrimmage.
15:49You know, I think they felt like in the postseason – and, look, there were other issues at play.
15:54You know, the offensive line was hurt and underperforming, et cetera.
15:59But, you know, Josh McDaniels was great about giving his quarterbacks the answers,
16:02but maybe they didn't feel like he had a full enough grasp on that.
16:07So they really, I think, in this offseason, instead of this just being sort of the teaching camp,
16:12you know, as they always tell you, oh, we're not really evaluating.
16:14We're just teaching at this time of year.
16:16They really pushed him.
16:17There was a number of times during the course of the minicamp where they would have him on tempo.
16:22So he'd get to the line of scrimmage, and then they wouldn't give him a play.
16:26And then with 18 seconds left on the clock, it was up to him to call the play.
16:31And so he's got to read the defense.
16:32He's got to call the play.
16:34He's got to get him in the right – you know, you've got to know what your personnel is
16:36because we're not running people in and out.
16:38This is what you've got.
16:39You've got to figure out how to make this work.
16:40And I think that's been a real thing for them is to sort of push him mentally so that, you
16:46know,
16:46if he encounters the Seattle defense again, which he will in week one,
16:49but that sort of thing, like do you have better answers where you can almost calm yourself down
16:56in those moments and not need Josh or Mike to do that for you?
17:01I think last year at this time there were probably plenty of column inches written
17:06and lots of words spoken about Will Campbell's arms going into year two.
17:13It didn't get any longer.
17:14It didn't get any longer.
17:15They didn't find a way to make that happen?
17:17No, no.
17:19How stable is that situation in your view, Mike?
17:22Vrabel loves him.
17:23So, I think they look at him and say the player he was before the knee injury
17:28and the player that he was after, and that was basically the playoff run
17:31when you all saw him get beat on the regular in the playoffs,
17:35they feel like he's more the guy that you saw before the injury.
17:38When I would say for his rookie year, he was fine, you know,
17:41like probably middle of the pack at left tackle.
17:44And they feel like he's stronger, he's healthier.
17:47There were some things they obviously wanted him to work on.
17:50He's one of those guys, if you're into line play, he's always been able to get away with
17:54because he's such a good athlete of almost waiting until last minute receiving guys.
17:58And then he's able to drop his butt down and anchor and sort of hold guys off.
18:03Well, it was a little harder to do at the National Football League level
18:06because everybody's just that much better.
18:08I think that's part of the thing they wanted to work on with him and get better.
18:13They did draft Caleb Lomu in the first round.
18:15That's a left tackle.
18:17By the way, it looks more like a left tackle, like body-wise, than Will Campbell does.
18:22Got longer arms, wider shoulders, the whole nine yards.
18:26He's already been thrown into the mix as the right tackle with Morgan Moses kind of being in and out
18:32during the course of the spring, which is typical for someone 35 years old or managing.
18:37But he looks like he fits.
18:39We'll see what it looks like again when the pads come on
18:41because Will Campbell looked awesome before the pads came on too.
18:44And then, you know, you deal with the variety of challenges that you get.
18:49I think there are people in the building that think if Lomu's one of the best five
18:54and his best spot is left tackle, then maybe Will moves.
18:58But for now, I think in Vrabel's mind, it's Will Campbell at left tackle until he declares otherwise.
19:05A couple quick ones for you, Mike, before we run out of time.
19:09Are you surprised they got the opener in Seattle?
19:12I think, yeah, you know what?
19:13And I don't care what they say.
19:15To me, that's all about Vrabel's story.
19:17Because I don't think anybody was clamoring for Seattle.
19:20Again, that wasn't a very good football game.
19:22You know, we've had Super Bowl rematches before where you're like, that's a great game.
19:26I can't – that's going to be awesome to see them roll it back and have this chip on their
19:29shoulder.
19:29That game was a pretty one-sided affair.
19:32I don't – you know, I don't know.
19:34They can tell me what they want.
19:35But I'm pretty sure that had something to do with Vrabel being in the news all offseason.
19:39I was thinking about that as a reason why it wouldn't get picked.
19:43But maybe I had it wrong.
19:45Ratings.
19:46You get mom, you know, who doesn't pay attention to this or whatever.
19:50Like, ooh, that Vrabel.
19:51Like, oh, I'm going to watch this.
19:52You know, like, I don't know.
19:53I don't know how they go through it.
19:54But to me, that was a clear influence.
19:58Okay.
19:59And quickly, Mike, how about the running backs?
20:01Henderson is a rookie.
20:03I think maybe it's surprising to think that he had more yards.
20:07I mean, like three to two by ratio over Stevenson.
20:11But very little work in the postseason.
20:13What did he have?
20:14Like maybe two touches against Denver or something like that, Henderson?
20:17Yeah.
20:17And he had that big game against the Bills, too, where he scored a couple of long ones.
20:22What do you think they want to do there?
20:24I mean, I think they'd like for Henderson to be the 55-45 guy maybe with Stevenson.
20:30I think they still like Ramondre's value, the physical nature with which he runs.
20:33But, you know, Henderson's big problem was he became such a liability in pass protection,
20:39which is crazy because, like, coming out of Ohio State,
20:42that was, like, at the top of the list of things that he did well
20:44that he basically became sort of unplayable, you know, or damn near close to it,
20:49you know, certain plays or whatnot.
20:51And they'd like more consistency there from a running style.
20:54You know, he did have four or five long touchdown runs this year.
20:57And you can't last year, you can't take those out of the equation.
21:00But, like, the down-to-down consistency and getting what's there
21:03or maybe getting a little bit more, that didn't happen nearly enough for them.
21:07So I think big sort of offseason for him to sort of study,
21:11figure out how to slow himself down,
21:13because I think sometimes he's just too fast in the hole.
21:15And they're hoping that that little increased patience will lead to, you know,
21:19him getting those extra yards that he didn't get last year.
21:22Ten total touchdowns for Henderson,
21:24but just two-and-a-half yards per carry in the playoffs for New England.
21:29Even with that snow, he couldn't pull off three yards per carry.
21:33But I like him in fantasy.
21:35Okay.
21:37That's smart.
21:39I mean, with that speed, he's guaranteed to break four or five, I think,
21:42pretty much every year.
21:43Mm-hmm.
21:44Thank you, Mike.
21:45Any questions for us?
21:49What do you guys do?
21:50Like, well, first of all, did management reach out yet,
21:52or are you going to lose the shirts?
21:54I am not looking at my phone.
21:57They're going to have to –
21:57I'm telling you, just – I think this is my advice.
22:00Just lose the shirts and see what happens.
22:02Well, a lot of people disagree with you, I think.
22:07My family.
22:08We know this one better.
22:10We know ourselves better than you might know us in this area.
22:14Okay.
22:15Thanks for your time, as always, Mike.
22:16Enjoy the rest of your summer.
22:18Appreciate it, guys.
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