00:00Zach Jackson is the latest one and one of the very best,
00:03and he joins us from the Athletic at Akron Jackson on social media.
00:07Zach, I told a caller right before you that I said I'd come right out of the box with this.
00:11So he was upset, so let me ask you.
00:14Was Andrew Barry negligent in not shopping around Miles Garrett?
00:21I think that's one of the things that's the nuance of this, Ken,
00:25and what Andrew Barry said is what he said.
00:29It's not necessarily maybe how it went.
00:32Teams like crazy called in February 25, and they were told something like no
00:38or something like there's no way that you're going to meet our price.
00:41And then when the contract modification was made in March,
00:44a bunch of teams called, and they were told the parameters.
00:47So did they take the Rams offer and call five other teams
00:51and say you have a certain day and time to beat this?
00:54No.
00:55But did they lay out parameters and negotiate and labor over this
00:59and deal with different teams in different ways?
01:04Yeah.
01:04The Rams first called in 2022.
01:07So there was a negotiation.
01:10So I understand that part,
01:12and I understand maybe wanting a little more in return.
01:15But of the reasons that the Browns did this,
01:18like their parameters being met are near the top of the list.
01:22And what I think probably hasn't been talked about or written about enough,
01:27and this is a huge trade,
01:29so even though I think it'll start to fade out of the discussion,
01:32it will be talked about and written about for months and maybe years.
01:36If you look at it in the scope of Miles' unhappiness drove this,
01:41and maybe Miles didn't come in 2026 and directly say trade me,
01:45but there was a contract modification.
01:47There were discussions.
01:49There was how January went, right?
01:51Like if you look at it in that regard,
01:53and then you look at the return and that the Browns embracing where they are,
01:59like I think you say, okay, I don't – you don't have to love it.
02:04But I think when you look at it like that, you have to get it.
02:07And then if you're wanting the Browns to turn it around
02:10over the course of the next 18-ish months,
02:13then I think it's a lot easier to be on board than to say,
02:16oh, my God, I can't believe they didn't get another third-round pick.
02:19All right, so what did you think overall of the return?
02:22Because I think the emotions have swung so wildly
02:25where fans just were anticipating, oh, three firsts.
02:29So they didn't know how to recalibrate the discussion once it was a big-time
02:34young player who is under, you know, team control for a while here.
02:39Yeah, he's under control for two years with the possibility of a third,
02:43and he'll be extended 11 months from now, you know, almost certainly.
02:48And that's how the Browns look at it is this chain reaction to these moves.
02:52So, Anthony, this is an answer that's longer than the time that we have.
02:56I know you guys have to get back to talking to Travis Pazana or whatever.
02:59But, like, the Browns wanted this kind of player.
03:04They wanted this kind of control.
03:05They want to be able to lay things out for how it's going to go
03:08and how this rebuild is going to go.
03:10So, obviously, the quarterback is the big piece and the big unknown.
03:13But they have gained flexibility with these picks that they got,
03:18with these extra picks that they already had,
03:20and kind of with a meeting of their admissions of past mistakes.
03:26So I think their return was strong.
03:28I don't think I'd A-plus it.
03:30I don't think I'm planning any parades for 2029 down Engel Road.
03:34But, like, you know, the return was strong.
03:37And I think when it lines up with how the Browns are going to go through the next process
03:42of allocating their dead money, spending their available money,
03:47and devoting their resources towards making this a strong roster again,
03:52I think it all lines up really well.
03:55And there are still good players on this roster for how long, I don't know,
04:00in terms of the older ones.
04:02But, like, this roster's not good enough, and Miles was not happy,
04:06and this is something they had to do.
04:07And I just think you have to look at it in that realm.
04:10They had to do it.
04:11It was time to do it.
04:13And the timing, I heard somebody say, well, they did it right away
04:16because they wanted the fans and the players to have time to process it before.
04:23No, they did it right away because it was past time to do it,
04:26and they didn't want to do this dance with Miles Garrett anymore.
04:29What does this say for Andrew Barry that Jimmy Haslam would sign off
04:33on one of the all-time big-ticket items, moving somebody of this consequence
04:40here in Northeast Ohio, maybe the best football player I'll ever see
04:44in a Cleveland Browns uniform?
04:45Yeah.
04:46I think it's even stronger than what he said in January, right,
04:49when he supported him based on a 31-year-old defensive tackle,
04:52a kicker in Tyson Campbell.
04:54I think it says Andrew Barry's got a chance to be the GM here until 2079.
05:01They're devoted and committed to doing it this way.
05:04Now, that doesn't mean that Andrew Barry won't,
05:06and I think a part of it won't be in trouble at some point.
05:09I think a part of this is you do have to win.
05:12You can do things right and stack things and extend guys at the right time,
05:16and you do have to win.
05:18And then that goes with the discussion of a first-year coach
05:20with a brand-new offense,
05:22and, like, we're going to be looking for growth if we're being fair about it.
05:25But eventually you guys know, and you guys have talked about it fairly,
05:28like you have to win.
05:29You know what the reaction is going to be if things in the results column go a
05:33certain way for the player that left and the player that came in, right,
05:37and who's left here.
05:38So this is a strong endorsement of Andrew Barry and what he's done.
05:44This is a reminder of why the Browns are here.
05:47And, like, my grade for the past 15-ish months is that Andrew Barry has made a lot
05:51of really good decisions and lined the Browns for this long road back.
05:54But they're digging themselves out of a hole that they created,
05:58and they have no one else to blame,
05:59and they really still have major, major issues to tackle.
06:03But, like, when you look at a line of sound, sensible decisions that line up
06:08for going forward and embracing a rebuild, I think they're doing a pretty good job.
06:14Zach Jackson joining us from The Athletic.
06:16Real quick, I said no, but if Jim Schwartz were still here,
06:20would Miles Garrett still be here?
06:21If he were like Jim Schwartz with the head coach?
06:23Yes.
06:23Oh, he would be?
06:25Yes.
06:25Yes, he would be.
06:26Whoa!
06:28Wow!
06:29Zach, I've said no way.
06:30I've scoffed at people.
06:33Scoffed.
06:33Yeah, he would be.
06:34Now, look, if this didn't get done for whatever reason,
06:38that they wanted more, or the Rams balked,
06:41or something else happened,
06:43this would still be in play through September 7th.
06:45And then the only, you know, what this deferred payment did
06:48is they would have had to pay him $10 more million on September 7th.
06:52Well, guess what?
06:53Look at what they've spent the last five years.
06:55So what's $10 more million?
06:56It's like $10.
06:57You know, it's like your McDonald's money on the way home, Ken.
06:59Like, it's nothing.
07:00So then it would have gone up to the deadline.
07:02And people who have issue with the return might be right about that.
07:09But Jim Schwartz would be the coach.
07:10He would be here.
07:11And they would be trying to, you know,
07:14they would be saying our defense is going to be good enough to carry us,
07:17and we'll see.
07:18Wait, Zach, you say that,
07:19then I think people might just sit here and rue the day that they have Todd Monk.
07:25This just adds more to Todd Monk, and you've given the fuel to the fire.
07:28But, no, I get what you guys are saying, and you take the calls every day, right?
07:34But, like, those people would be ignoring what the goal is for the roster to look like
07:39between the 27 and 28 seasons.
07:42And, like, this roster's not good enough, and even Ken admitted it.
07:46You know?
07:47What do you mean, even Ken admitted it?
07:50You know, people want different, and people don't,
07:54obviously don't like what's going on.
07:56You know, I was listening yesterday, and the guy called, said,
07:59read right 88, and, like, there's a generation of fans that have that
08:02and the drive and the fumble, and this generation has,
08:05being in the stadium, went to Sean Watson, got booted off the field.
08:10Do you have another question, Anthony?
08:12Because I'm trying to think about...
08:15Oh, God, why did you have to say it, Zach?
08:18It just adds more heat.
08:21Okay, fine.
08:21It just adds more heat, because you know they're going to, if they go out there
08:24and lose, no.
08:26So then that means...
08:27No, I'm just...
08:28Wait, wait.
08:28I'm a reactionary.
08:29You know me.
08:30You know, it's one thing for me to come on here and opine every day and say,
08:34I don't know, Miles isn't really going to want to show up when he's vouching
08:37for his defensive coordinator to get the job.
08:39He doesn't get the job.
08:41And then are him and Todd Munkin ever going to actually be in the same room
08:43at the same time?
08:45And then for you to say that if Schwartz would have been hired,
08:48Miles Garrett is still a Cleveland Brown heading into year number 10.
08:53Yeah, I mean, to me, look, obviously I don't know, but to me, that's a no-brainer.
08:59You know, like, this is what they chose.
09:01And you guys know.
09:03I mean, what did Schwartz say when he went on his podcast interview,
09:05you can't force that marriage?
09:07Well, we know what went on with Nate Shieldhouse, too.
09:09We know how this went.
09:10Like, they chose Todd Munkin and they've moved forward,
09:12and they've done a really good job up until Monday when they put Todd Munkin on the podium
09:16as this trade was happening of, like, saying Todd Munkin's our guy
09:20and we're behind him and he's the right – and he might be.
09:22He might be.
09:23And, you know, in limited viewings, these rookie receivers look good
09:26and everything's going to be new.
09:27But they had to do this for Todd Munkin.
09:30I mean, no head coach gets better when his best player gets traded away.
09:33But Todd Munkin now gets to set his culture and do it his way.
09:38And he's going to have to do it with a team that Miles Garrett or no Miles Garrett
09:41is going to be half first and second year players.
09:44They draft 21-year-old guys intentionally, right?
09:49So, like, he's going to set his culture and they're going to go forward a certain way.
09:53And so nothing – maybe winning games early in 20s, 26 is going to get people temporarily fired up.
09:58But this is always about the back half of 27 and 28 and solving that one lingering question.
10:05And they were always going to have to move on for Miles Garrett to do it, like an 80%
10:10chance.
10:10So when things lined up and it was just time to move on – and, again, that is the overarching
10:16thing to me.
10:17Things moved up and Jerry Verse was there and these picks with which you can be very, very flexible
10:22in attacking your next set of needs.
10:25Like, I like the traits and I understand the angst, the uncertainty, and the anger.
10:31And it goes back four years.
10:32Like, not victory lapping or declaring it because there's nothing about the last five years
10:36that's been fun for one second.
10:38Is the clock ticking – sorry, is the clock ticking on Denzel Ward now?
10:44Oh, 100%.
10:45But, like – but, again, it's how it lines up.
10:49I do not think that the Browns are calling teams right now and saying,
10:52take Denzel Ward and Grant Elpin off our hands.
10:54And I don't think the Browns are doing anything right now the next two weeks
10:57other than try to put a semi-competent offense on the field
11:00and go through the paces that they have to do.
11:02But when things get a certain way and when deadlines force decisions at quarterback
11:07and with the roster and who else calls, like, you can subtly make moves that land you
11:12in the top five of next year's draft.
11:14And you can then take these calls and kind of repeat in a different way what you just did,
11:19which is embrace where you are and where you need to be.
11:23And when the value's right and the deal is right, you move on from these guys.
11:27I forgot about that.
11:27And it's only signed for one more year.
11:29Oh, geez.
11:29Malik's only signed for one more year.
11:32Denzel's signed for two in big numbers.
11:34But, you know, he's a guy that would bring huge value.
11:37I mean, I think Tyson Campbell's going to be here.
11:39His contract balloons after this year.
11:41It's a huge year for him.
11:43And then, you know, after the following year is when you can start extending this draft group.
11:48So you have to see how it works, guys.
11:50Like, history says there's some sleepers on this roster.
11:55History says of these offensive linemen they brought in, probably one's going to be good
11:59and at least one's going to be a complete disaster.
12:0130-year-old offensive lineman with guaranteed money on a bad team.
12:04So, like, let's see.
12:06But I think what they've done and are doing gives you a chance to have the whole temperature be different
12:12next February and March.
12:15And, you know, quarterback will linger.
12:17But, like, to me the temperature was not good because there's just not enough pieces right now.
12:21And this Miles thing lingered.
12:22And it no longer lingers.
12:24So I give him credit for that.
12:28If Brendan Soresby doesn't get his injunction, how interested are the Browns and Brendan Soresby?
12:35Yeah, I don't know.
12:37And I don't know how anybody is, Ken, because, you know, there's a question whether he's even going to be
12:41in the supplemental draft.
12:42And there's a question of what as teams continue to find out things via court documents and their own research
12:48and their own meetings.
12:50You know, and so, like, he has until the end of this month, I believe, to apply.
12:54And then there would be a window where teams can meet with them or impromptu pro day or all of
12:59these things.
13:00So we're not going to know that.
13:01And there's a chance that it's not going to be good.
13:03But the supplemental draft is a silent auction.
13:06So teams are not going to tip their hands.
13:09Right?
13:09They're just not.
13:10So, like, if we're at a silent auction, you know, for Streetsboro football that you invited us to,
13:16and I really want that Mike Hall signed helmet.
13:18Like, I'm not going to tell Lima how much I'm bidding because he'll beat me.
13:21So, like, that's an interesting one.
13:25And Todd said what he said, and I thought it was certainly notable.
13:29But what team has embraced the press assets more?
13:34It's ridiculous because Randy TV Paul would beat you both out.
13:37All right, Zach.
13:39I said it, Zach.
13:40I said it that I've gotten crushed by certain suits here at the station.
13:44I said you'd want to do the opposite of what you'd want because of the way that the auction works
13:49in the supplemental.
13:49Like, you would trash a guy that you wanted, and you would do the opposite for a guy that you
13:55didn't want
13:56just to throw everybody off the scent and to either drive up the price or drive down the price.
14:01Yeah.
14:01I mean, look, there is a chance that he enters it and nobody bids on him based on what's out
14:06there.
14:06And there's a chance that he enters it and only one team bids, or there's a chance that he enters
14:11it,
14:11and, like, he goes for a high second-round pick, which is kind of where he would be based on
14:16talent and situation.
14:16But I don't think anyone knows right now, but it's certainly, like, now that these two trades were made
14:22and, boy, did A.J. Browns get overshadowed, that's the NFL story of the summer, you know, of June anyway,
14:31is how this is going to go because he's a talented kid, and this is the most important position in
14:35sports.
14:37All right, Zach, thank you very much for the time.
14:39Glad we ran you down.
14:40You're a treasure.
14:41All the very best to you and yours.
14:43Thanks, guys.
14:45Zach Jackson, Browns writer for The Athletic.
14:48On the Wise Heart Right, we make it right.
14:50Call Kyle Wright hot.
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