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00:00All coming up later on this hour, we will be joined momentarily.
00:03I believe it's the last hour.
00:04While Mike Lucas of the Ultimate Cleveland Sports Show.
00:07Yeah, time fly.
00:08Excuse me.
00:09Time fly when you're cooking on this show.
00:11And when you're cooking.
00:12Hey, I've been up since 3 in the morning.
00:15I think I'm starting to reference that a lot.
00:16I'm starting to get hungry.
00:17It's time to refuel myself.
00:19I'm pumped, bro.
00:211 o'clock, WNBA Finals, Game 4.
00:23The Atlanta Dream is up right now.
00:26They're up 2-1.
00:26They're up 2-1, looking to take a 3-1 lead.
00:28Shout out to Nas Hillman.
00:30Had 15 points.
00:31Shot 16.
00:33He was a plus 17.
00:34And you know why I'll point that out?
00:36You know, because, like, she missed the potential go-ahead basket in Game 1.
00:40And there was a lot of hate on social media.
00:43People was in the comments being real disrespectful.
00:45But, yeah, when she bought out in Game 3, the apologies wasn't as loud, man.
00:50You got to have those apologies just as loud as the hate.
00:54Let's get out to the wise heart right.
00:56Mike, we make the right call, call right hotline, and we bring on a homie, Mike Lucas.
00:59Mike, good morning, man.
01:00Are you enjoying your sister coming to visit you?
01:04I am.
01:04We've had a terrific time in Cleveland so far.
01:08And we have met a few fans of our Cavs coverage out.
01:12And they're trying to come up with nicknames for her.
01:14And I'm not sure Sister Nuggets works.
01:15No, Sister Nuggets don't work.
01:17Does she have any Cavs takes?
01:20Not yet, but she is going to the home opener tonight.
01:22So, maybe next week I will fill you guys in on her takeaway from a little.
01:27I stepped outside the coffee shop, but I can get her out here if you really want to hear a
01:32German take on the Cavaliers before they have their home opener.
01:36It's okay.
01:36It's okay.
01:37So, listen, you were one of the people that were highly pissed off from the Cleveland Cavaliers blowing that 29
01:43-point lead.
01:43And I think my first question to you is, for me, Mike, it's hard to debunk anything that you've said,
01:49Spencer said, anybody locally or nationally, about the Cleveland Cavaliers.
01:52They clearly have a stereotype on them.
01:55How do they go about shedding this label of being a team that's soft, can't close out games?
01:59Because as you alluded to, this felt like a copy-and-paste type situation here.
02:05The only way to do it is to actually do it.
02:08You know, we heard lip service all offseason.
02:10That Knicks loss.
02:12We learned from it.
02:12That we need that battle score.
02:14We'll be better because of it.
02:15And this was just their first opportunity.
02:17They will get more opportunities.
02:19But it was a chance to kind of rewrite a new narrative.
02:23And instead, it was deja vu all over again.
02:25And that's why I was more disappointed than anything.
02:27Like, we heard them say all the right things.
02:30But you can say all the right things.
02:32And you can put in the preparation.
02:33But until you get into that situation, it's all lip service.
02:37And I'm not saying down the road it can't change.
02:40And this can't be another battle score that eventually gets them to where they need to get to.
02:46But you couldn't have wrote a worse opening day script considering how the season ended last year.
02:50Like, even Hollywood couldn't have wrote a worse way to kick off or tip off this season.
02:56Blowing a 29-point lead.
02:58And they went back to all the same bad habits.
03:00So, it's just – it was disappointing.
03:02I was quite annoyed.
03:03They could go out and win by 30 tonight.
03:04Nothing they do in the regular season is going to matter.
03:06This team is going to be judged by their postseason success.
03:10And that kind of is a weird spot to be in because you don't want to overreact to any one
03:15individual game.
03:16But also, like, these are the bullet points and the data points we now have.
03:19So, we have to.
03:20But it's not the playoffs.
03:21But it still matters.
03:23And I'm in just this kind of in-between place of I want to rip them to shred.
03:27They deserve to be ripped to shred.
03:28But it's also the first game of an 82-game season.
03:30So, how much do you really want to – how much stock do you really want to put into it?
03:33That's where I'm at.
03:34Yeah, I think that's fair.
03:35Like, I've tried not to make this be like a referendum on everything that's going to happen this season.
03:39But it does feel very ominous that that's the way the season started.
03:42I think that's well said.
03:43I want to ask you because – and Earl and I were just talking about this.
03:47In the first half, there was a clear focus on, hey, let's get the bigs involved.
03:53Let's make them the focal point of this offense.
03:55And then the second half, they went from combining for 18 shots to combining for five between Evan and Jarrett.
04:02Is this something – and I guess I want to specifically focus on Evan in this conversation.
04:07At this point, when that happens, because it happens quite a bit where Evan's prominent in the first half and
04:13then not there in the second half.
04:14Are you putting that more on Evan for not demanding the basketball and having kind of that Kevin Garnett attitude
04:21that everyone sort of says he should have?
04:23Are you putting it more on the guards, Donovan, James, for not getting them more involved throughout the game?
04:29Or are you putting it more on Kenny Atkinson for not keeping the consistency with the way that he's run
04:34this offense?
04:35I'd go D all the above.
04:37That is an acceptable answer because that's what I'd say.
04:40Evan has to be more assertive and call for the ball.
04:43He has to.
04:44And if Evan gets a rebound in the second half and he's not getting the touches in the half-court
04:47sets that he wants,
04:49take the ball up court and initiate offense yourself.
04:51We've seen him do it before.
04:52We saw him do it in the first half, and he kind of gets away from that.
04:55So he has to be more assertive.
04:57The guards also have to continue to make an effort to get him involved.
05:00Once Philadelphia upped the defensive pressure in the half-court and in the full-court,
05:05the Gats struggle to kind of get into any offensive catch, right?
05:08Like James Harden was struggling to get past Tyrese Maxey.
05:11Like Donovan was having issues with Jalen Brown or Contavious Callup, whoever was out there.
05:16And when you're getting pushed so far back and starting your offense so close to the half-court line,
05:20the way to outlet that pressure is make one of their bigs.
05:23Evan Mobley can bring the ball up the court, especially if he's being guarded by Embiid or Adam Bona.
05:29Like, let Evan initiate the offense, and that's where I put a little bit on Kenny and the guards.
05:34The guards' jobs get easier when Evan's involved.
05:39Bigs are not, for the most part, the initiators, right?
05:42And that's why I can't put it all on Evan because it does fall a lot on James,
05:45and it does fall a lot on Don and the rest of the guards to get him the ball when
05:48he's in a position.
05:49And when he rolls and he's open, you have to get him the ball.
05:52But he also has to be more assertive.
05:53And I think Kenny has to make a point.
05:55I said this before, I'll say it again.
05:57Call a timeout and run a play where you tell Donovan James, whoever,
06:01I don't care if he's open or not, get Evan a shot on the block.
06:03Like, let him do what he wants to do.
06:05Do you guys remember the beginning of last season when they kind of pulled the reins back on Evan
06:09and said, hey, you can create offense, go dribble, and it was ugly, it didn't work?
06:13If he had done that down the fourth quarter when the Cavs are losing the league,
06:17we would have criticized him for, what are you doing?
06:19Like, that's not part of your offense.
06:20But then we also criticized him for not being more aggressive in getting the ball.
06:23So, everyone is – I don't think anyone gets a pass in the misusage of the bigs down the stretch.
06:29And I think if the Cavs play into their two bigs, you have two.
06:33The two of your four highest paid players, they're both making upwards of $30 million to $50 million a year.
06:39Use them.
06:41Use them.
06:41What's the point of having them if you're not going to play through them at times,
06:45especially when your guards are struggling to get the ball up and into good offensive stack?
06:49That is what frustrates you more than anything.
06:51And I'm hoping tonight, and I'm hoping over the next three, four weeks,
06:55and I'm hoping over the next three, four months,
06:57we see kind of the evolution of this Cavs offense where late in games,
07:00it isn't all on James and Donovan to create.
07:02They're using their outlets.
07:04They're using Evan and Jarrett to get better looks for the guards
07:07because the guards themselves haven't proven to be the most clutch players in the NBA
07:12over the last couple times we've seen them out there.
07:14So, to that point, in my opinion, I feel like the Cleveland Cavaliers are being a bit stubborn.
07:19I feel like that they wanted to be, you know, my favorite line.
07:22You know me, I like to quote the wire.
07:24You want it to be one way, and it's not.
07:26It seemed like it's the other way.
07:28Bro, for me to sit up there and watch how Evan Mobley and Jared Allen
07:32impacted that game the way that they did in the first half, I was excited.
07:35I was telling Spencer, like, okay, new wrinkle, new approach to this situation.
07:40Okay, Cavs, I like this, and then they went totally away from it.
07:44I've heard you talk about it.
07:45Ethan Sands talked about it.
07:46We've heard Kenny Atkinson say, hey, we can't forget about Jared Allen.
07:50Well, somehow you found a way to forget about Jared Allen yet again.
07:54Why don't the Cavaliers just want to make it an emphasis that this is how we're going to play ball?
07:59No matter what the names is on the back of the jerseys for the guards,
08:03you see this as impactful this way.
08:05Why they just won't commit to the bit, in your opinion?
08:09I think they're going to commit to the bit early.
08:10They've got to commit to the too-big bit.
08:13I'll die in the hill.
08:13The advantage of having two skilled bigs, like Jared Allen and Evan Moby,
08:17is A, the big-to-big passing.
08:19You can use the big screen.
08:21And there aren't many teams that have two guys with their ability in the post
08:26on the court at the same time.
08:27That should be an advantage.
08:29It's a zag against the way the NBA is digging.
08:31Like, the Cavs are the team that should be difficult to guard
08:34and difficult to match up against because of the lineups that they can present
08:38while still having three other shot craters on the court alongside the two.
08:42But they only played 14 minutes together in the first game of the season.
08:46Tiny sample size, one game, I get it.
08:47But they played 14 minutes together.
08:49If you have these two and you're going to pay these two, play the two.
08:52Use them to their advantage.
08:53I think Evan and Jared are both at their best.
08:57And the Cavs, I'm starting to change my opinion.
09:00I think the Cavs might be at their best and their most difficult to guard
09:04with a little limited spacing.
09:06But the advantage of having Evan and Jared dominate the glass like they should
09:11and being able to pass back and forth.
09:13If you remember two years ago when they beat OKC,
09:15the year they won 64 regular season games.
09:18Earl, you were sitting next to me at that game, spent to you.
09:19You were probably on my right.
09:21And Jared and Evan both had 20 and 10 in the game.
09:23And Chet Holmgren, Isaiah Hartenstein, those guys couldn't guard them.
09:27The big-to-big passing, Jared threw an alley-oop to Evan,
09:29and then two possessions later, Evan threw the alley-oop to Jared
09:32on the high-pick-and-roll.
09:33That's really hard to guard if you don't have seven-footers and six-ten guys.
09:37And most teams aren't playing two of them at the same time to match up.
09:41Why they won't commit to the bit?
09:43You got James Harden and Donna Mitchell.
09:45Those are your two best offensive options.
09:47But I'm not sure that's your two best offensive options to win at a consistent level
09:51against good defensive teams like we saw.
09:53So I don't know, Earl.
09:54I don't know.
09:55I'm not paid enough to be a coach.
09:57I just happen to know a few.
09:59And I don't think they were necessarily in agreement with how the Cavs
10:02closed the game either.
10:02Let's just leave it at that.
10:04Facts.
10:04As you went through that, Mike, I can't help but sort of go here next
10:09because, like, if it's a philosophical question of what the Cavs should be doing
10:15on offense, I think that obviously starts largely with Kenny.
10:19How much should fans trust that he's still the right guy for this job?
10:24I mean, we know what was said when that series ended in May.
10:28There were some murmurs then that he might not come back.
10:31And then it kind of felt like that was the move was to kind of bring him back
10:35because they'd already done the try-a-new-head-coach thing.
10:38But, I mean, I don't know.
10:40Like, how much of a leash does he have, particularly with how the season just
10:44started on Thursday night this year, if things don't change?
10:50I mean, I think it's fair to say he's definitely on the hot seat,
10:53or at least he's in a crockpot situation where it may not be hot yet,
10:56but it's warming up early in the season.
10:57You know, you leave Chili in the crockpot for six hours by the end of it.
11:00It's certainly hot.
11:01I think Kenny's in that situation.
11:03Kenny Gackson's a good head coach.
11:05He's a good NBA head coach.
11:07And the players love him.
11:08I think the reason he's back is because Donovan and James Harden,
11:11after the sweep to the Knicks, came out to the podium and said,
11:14this is the right guy for the team.
11:15We believe in Kenny.
11:17We think he has the best interest at heart.
11:20But you could change a roster.
11:22Gaz brought in Peyton Watson.
11:24They're kind of stuck with this roster.
11:26You can change a lot of other parts.
11:28But once you're stuck with a team up against the second apron,
11:31it's a lot easier to change the head coach than it is to change any of these
11:34big-name contracts because it's really hard to execute trades in today's day
11:37and age that would actually make Cleveland better.
11:40So, yeah, I like Kenny Atkinson.
11:42I think he's a good head coach.
11:43But I also think this Cavs team has been not under or misused,
11:49but they haven't achieved the sustained level of success I think this roster is
11:55capable of.
11:56And that's quite disappointing.
11:58But I also want to make something really clear, guys.
11:59It's one game.
12:00And it sounds like the world is crashing.
12:02They can come out and win by 80 tonight and we'll feel a lot differently.
12:05So, I know it feels bad because of the first game and how poorly it ended.
12:09Philadelphia is a really good basketball team.
12:11They got red hot and they may have been able to come back against any team in the
12:15NBA.
12:15It's not just a Cavs issue.
12:16Look at how quickly leads evaporate across the first week of the season.
12:19Unless you're up by 50, I don't think any leads say to the final four minutes of the
12:22game.
12:23It was a horrible loss in the season opener.
12:25But it doesn't mean the season's going down the drain already.
12:28And I know I'm guilty as anybody of being doom and gloom after what we saw on
12:33Thursday.
12:34But I am trying to remain optimistic that it is one of 82 games and one game does
12:38not define your season when you have 81 left to play.
12:41That's why I make everyone aware that we have a lot of basketball before any big
12:45time decisions are going to be made.
12:47I think that's why, you know, I'm letting y'all kind of like go off and I'm just
12:51picking my spots on certain things that frustrated me.
12:55Spencer was just looking at me like I was crazy because I was sitting up here
12:58laughing.
12:59Like you heard the analogy he made, right?
13:02I'm sorry, but I know a brand new Crock-Pock user when I hear one, right?
13:07Like Mike sounds like a man who just, I know for a fact the brother has invested
13:11in a Crock-Pock.
13:11You just tried that recipe, didn't you?
13:13That six-hour chili?
13:15I just got a new Crock-Pock, but I have been a Crock-Pock, adamant Crock-Pock user
13:19for years.
13:20It's Crock-Pock season.
13:22It's Crock-Pock season.
13:23We just made a Crock-Pock meal the other day.
13:25And you heard the analogy.
13:26This ain't his first Crock-Pock meal.
13:28He knew exactly what it is that he was talking about.
13:31Final question for me, man, because I know your sister is here and you're enjoying her.
13:36What are you looking for tonight from the Cleveland Cavaliers as they take on the
13:40Brooklyn Nets in their home opener?
13:42Yeah, I want to see 48 minutes of basketball.
13:44We know this Cavs team, when they're playing well, can look terrific.
13:48That first half against, like, as bad as the second half was, the first half was equally
13:51as good.
13:53Or maybe slightly less because they lost the game.
13:54But you get what I'm saying.
13:55Like, when they looked good in the first half, they looked like they could play and beat
13:58any team in the NBA.
13:59But it was 24 minutes of basketball.
14:01It is a 48-minute basketball game.
14:03Can they stay consistent?
14:04Can they play the same style that builds them the lead to close the lead?
14:09And if it is close, how are they closing the game?
14:11What is that closing five?
14:12Is Kenny going to commit to one big and shooting around the one big?
14:16Is he going to commit to playing Jared and Allen together?
14:19Are we going to see that change on a game-to-game basis, depending on the opponent?
14:23I know we won't get that answer tonight because it's only a one-game situation.
14:26But I want to see them, A, figure out their closing lineup, and B, play 48 minutes of good
14:32basketball, or at least 44.
14:33Every team's going to have a bad stretch at some point in the game.
14:36But they should beat Brooklyn.
14:37They are a much better team than Brooklyn.
14:38They have much bigger aspirations than Brooklyn.
14:40It is the home opener, and you have a chance to erase a terrible taste from your mouth
14:45from what happened on Thursday.
14:46Go out, make a point, and put B to A for 48 minutes.
14:50That's what I'm hoping for tonight, guys.
14:52Mike, I got one last thing for you.
14:54So I think it's interesting, because they lost that game, the matchup itself included
15:00a guy on one side, LeBron James, who's maybe the greatest player of all time,
15:04in the tail end of his career, figuring out what his role is, and accepting that role.
15:09And the flip side, you have a Cavs team with James Harden, who is a few years younger than
15:14LeBron, but at that later stage of his career, and he's trying to figure out what his role
15:19looks like with this Cavs team, and he talked about that in the playoffs last year, like
15:22how it was an adjustment, he wasn't ready yet, and he needed the time to kind of gel and figure
15:26it out.
15:27But I think what's interesting is LeBron has seemingly flawlessly accepted over the years
15:33he's got to do less, he can't do quite as much, and become sort of that facilitator.
15:37And I don't know that James has been able to maybe adapt quite as well just yet.
15:42At this point, like, are we sure that he can change the style of play that he's played
15:47with his whole career to fit what this Cavs team needs him to be?
15:52No.
15:53I'm not sure.
15:54I hope.
15:55I think he has an understanding.
16:00I'm going to go big picture real quick to focus on James Harden.
16:02The Cavs changed all their habits in the first half, and then reverted back to what we saw
16:07at the end of last season, the second half, right?
16:08James Harden can tell us he's willing to play the flow of an offense, he's willing to do
16:12more off-ball, he's willing to be more of a traditional point guard than an ISO scorer
16:16until push comes to shove and you revert back to your muscle memory.
16:20And I'm worried that they could take, the Cavs in general, and James, they can say all the
16:25right things, and for parts of the game where it's going well, they can do all the right
16:29things, but when the pressure gets turned on, you revert back to what you know best.
16:33And right now, the thing we know about the Cleveland Cavaliers, it's a fact, it's not
16:37my opinion, it's a fact, is that when push comes to shove, Donovan likes to try going
16:42isolation scoring, which he's a lead at for what it's worth, it's not like that's a bad
16:45option, and James Harden likes to completely dominate the ball and go high pick and roll
16:50and slow the game down.
16:52Those are the only two things we know for sure that the Cavs feel comfortable doing when the
16:56game gets tight, and I'm not sure those two things are good enough at the stage of
17:00James' career, and when defenses are so hyper-focused on the tendencies in a playoff
17:04scenario, that you can win scoring offense or scoring the ball with those two as your
17:09primary option.
17:10So I hope, I hope, I hope they can rewire their brain so when they get in those pressure
17:15situations, the muscle memory default isn't to what we know doesn't work, and now defaults
17:21to what a new brand of Cavaliers basketball looks like.
17:24Real quick, 15 seconds, Browns-Titans, the score will be what?
17:2924-20, Browns win, Jared Burst, late strip sack to steal it.
17:33Woo!
17:33You got a lot of faith in that Titans offense.
17:35Mike Lucas of the Ultimate Cleveland Sports Show joining us on the Wise Heart Right, We
17:39Make It Right Call, Kyle Wright Hotline, tell Rebecca I said hi, finish enjoying your family,
17:44and I'll see you in a minute.
17:44Appreciate you, Mike.
17:45Bye-bye.