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00:00Who do you want to take at six?
00:03Caleb Downs.
00:04You want to take Caleb Downs?
00:05I do.
00:06I have six guys I would take.
00:07If they're there, I'm not moving.
00:09I'm taking Caleb Downs.
00:10He changes the narrative of the game.
00:13I'm stacking good players, and I'm not filling holes.
00:16So I'm taking Caleb Downs, or I'm taking Jeremiah Love.
00:21It is April 1st, and I still haven't made my decision yet.
00:23The draft is like 23 days away.
00:25I haven't been able to do it.
00:26Where are you leaning?
00:28No, because any name that gets brought up, people just start farting in its general direction.
00:33So let's get to Nick Baumgartner, who joins us right now, on the Make It Right Hotline,
00:38NFL Draft Analyst for The Athletic.
00:39Nick, thanks for joining us this morning.
00:42No problem, guys.
00:42How are we doing?
00:44I'm doing well.
00:45Can you cross off a name for me by any chance?
00:47Give me who the Browns absolutely cannot take at number six overall.
00:53Ty Simpson.
00:54Can't do it.
00:55Cannot have it.
00:56No quarterback up there other than Mendoza.
00:59For me, but I'll tell you what, guys, when I was listening as I was coming in, I loved
01:03the conviction on Downs and Jeremiah Love, because Jeremiah Love's my number one player
01:07on the board.
01:08Nobody talks about what he can do for a team, and then it's the same conversation, I think.
01:13I think Downs is a top five player, and it's one of those things where it's like he changes.
01:17So, hey, I'm with you guys.
01:18I love that.
01:19I love the conviction on those two.
01:20Great players.
01:22Nick, how are you?
01:23Hey, question for you.
01:24Tackles-wise, are you going early round?
01:28Are you going late round?
01:29Like, I love Max Iannaccio.
01:30I think he's a guy who probably can't start early, but can play late.
01:33Do you think he can go left and right?
01:34I think he can.
01:35I love his feet.
01:37Obviously, people love Monroe Freeling.
01:39Besides those two, give me another guy.
01:41You know, like, I like a guy like Isaiah World from Oregon.
01:43Give me a guy you like that might be a late round guy at tackle that could be a good
01:47fit
01:47for the Browns.
01:49Yeah, tackle's a weird one this year, because you've got a situation where I think you've
01:52got like seven guys that are probably going to go in the first round, and then there's
01:55kind of a gap, you know, so I don't know if there's too many guys that I would take
01:59in round two, maybe not even that many in round three, and then you see a bunch, you
02:03know, outside the top 100 that you'll start taking a shot at.
02:06But really, the first seven in this class are the guys that I think you want to get
02:09a shot at.
02:10For the Browns, though, I think it's more of a question of, do you want to go at six?
02:13Do you want to try to do it, you know, with your later first round pick?
02:16And then, as you say, if you want to go and wait, you know, somebody like Denetrius Crown
02:21over the kid from Texas A&M, who's a really big guy, or Bell, the kid from Miami, the other
02:26giant tackle.
02:28Those are the guys that you'll probably look at, you know, later in the draft that are, you
02:31know, they're not dart throws, you know.
02:33I think some of those guys are quality players, like a Jude Bowery, if he was there, like
02:37you mentioned, Isaiah World, there's a lot of pickups with him and inconsistencies, and
02:42it might be something where he works out, it might be something where it's just, it doesn't
02:45ever, doesn't ever pan out.
02:46So, you know, those are the guys this year in that fourth to fifth round range that I
02:50think, you know, would be of note.
02:52But really, for me, if I'm the Browns, it's either Maui Goa or Fanel at the top, because
02:58I think you're going to have a shot at one or the other.
03:00And then, after that, you look at, you know, Caleb Lomu, Caden Proctor, Maxi Hanachor, I
03:05think he can play both sides, like you mentioned.
03:07I think Blake Miller could play both sides as well.
03:09Proctor scares me a little bit, but he's super athletic.
03:12So, I think the Browns are in a good spot to get a tackle if they really are committed
03:15to doing this year, one way or the other.
03:16Yeah, speaking of Proctor, that was my next question for you.
03:18Caden Proctor is a guy I have lower on my list.
03:20I just don't, you know, I just think he's more of a hip bender than a knee bender.
03:25Do you see that kind of carrying over to the NFL, his inability at that size to kind
03:29of bend at the knees and make sure he's able to get to the edge on those guys?
03:34Yeah, it's not just that.
03:35It's also the hands are all over the place.
03:37He guesses a lot.
03:38He lunges a lot.
03:39You know, he's just a very sloppy player, I think, in general.
03:42And it's hard to say that because he's such a good athlete.
03:45I mean, he is very special.
03:47All the stuff that they've done with him in the backfield and splitting him out,
03:50I mean, he's legitimate.
03:51He can move and he can deliver a blow on the move.
03:54And if he can get with a good offensive line coach or whatever, I mean, you know,
03:57then it would be great.
03:58It could be great.
03:59But it's also one of these things where it's like he's a third-year college player.
04:01He started for three years.
04:03The NFL is not a developmental league.
04:05I have a lot of questions about him.
04:07And, you know, for me, I'd be nervous about him in the 20s if I was a team that wanted
04:11to
04:11take him and have him start immediately.
04:13I almost feel like I'd rather have him sit behind a guy.
04:16Like I've seen Detroit, you know, as a situation where they have a swing tackle along
04:19with Sewell, they could bring a guy in, maybe sit him for a little bit.
04:22Like maybe that would work there.
04:24But I'm not sure if it would work with Cleveland, especially if you're a young team trying to
04:28come up on it.
04:29Because I think Proctor's a guy that's going to need a lot of work.
04:33Nick, to continue on Proctor, like I'm always sensitive to this because radio shows talking
04:39about people's bodies is a little bit weird to me.
04:41Not like, because it's like, hey, I'm fat.
04:43Like, honestly, if I'm calling a guy heavy, like I know what I look like.
04:46And so I am sensitive to it.
04:48Like, hey, if I were an athlete and I'm hearing some guy in Cleveland calling me heavy, it's
04:52like, who are you?
04:53But I also have personal experience knowing like, hey, like if a lineman I have to bulk
04:58him up, it seems to be easier for me to bulk him up than to keep that weight down.
05:02Does that make sense?
05:03And so that's what might scare a lot of people.
05:05Yeah.
05:06Because I mean, if he's at 352, he looks like a Zeus.
05:09But during the season, when you're not doing as much, when you're getting yourself ready
05:12for the next week, some guys tend to lose weight.
05:14But a lot of a guy like him, I mean, all of a sudden you're going to be pushing four
05:18spins.
05:18And if you can't get out of a stance, that's a major problem for us.
05:22That's a huge problem.
05:23It's the same conversation.
05:24Remember when DeJuan Jones at Ohio State there came out?
05:27He's such a giant guy that you're like any time.
05:30Proctor's 6'8", right?
05:31Same thing.
05:32When you've got a guy that big also, it's not just about, you know, yes, his weight could balloon.
05:36It could be just crazy that you can't get it under control.
05:39And he's the guy that blows through his signing bonus in three weeks on the fines.
05:42But he also, you know, 6'8", with those long limbs.
05:45I mean, the chances for a knee or any other thing, foot, all these things just go way up,
05:50you know, when the guys get that big.
05:52So there's a lot that scares me about him.
05:54There's a lot that's intriguing, obviously.
05:56But there's probably more, honestly, that scares me about him.
05:59I would be nervous.
06:00He's a first-round talent.
06:01Obviously, I can't ignore that.
06:02But a lot about him makes me nervous.
06:04Plus, he transferred to Iowa.
06:05He was there for six months, came back to Alabama.
06:08You know, I think there might be some growing up also that he has to do as well.
06:11He's a young player.
06:11I think some fans actually might like him if he would have just stayed at Iowa
06:14because he would be a Big Ten offensive lineman instead of an Alabama offensive lineman.
06:18He'd be less nervous.
06:18Yeah, exactly.
06:20Big Baumgartner joining us on the show from The Athletic.
06:22Okay.
06:24Jeremiah Love, tell me why the Browns, if they can't move out,
06:27why they should take him in number six overall
06:29when you already have Quinshawn Judkins and Dylan Sampson in that backfield.
06:34I think Jeremiah Love is the best player in this draft.
06:36I think he is in the category or the tier of a B. John Robinson, Jameer Gibbs,
06:42I think possibly even in a Saquon category at some point someday.
06:46I think he's one of those guys that can change the tenor of a franchise on offense,
06:50can be an immediate impact player.
06:52I think he's better than Ashton Gene T.
06:54I don't know if Jeremiah Love necessarily needs an amazing offense to come in and really sing.
07:02I think he could come in and help raise a team.
07:04I think he could come in and work with a young quarterback.
07:07There's just not many holes to his game.
07:08When we look at running backs over the last 10, 15 years that have come out,
07:11he's in that group of upper echelon.
07:15He's going to be good.
07:16One of those things.
07:17You don't ever have to take him off the field.
07:18You can move him around.
07:19You don't have to get rid of Judkins.
07:21Maybe Dylan Sampson doesn't have quite as much of a role,
07:24but you can play him with another guy.
07:25It works.
07:26There's a lot you can do with him.
07:27It's a lot like the conversation with Downs on the other side of the ball.
07:30He's more than a running back.
07:31I know that's hard for people to hear sometimes because it's like,
07:34well, you say that all the time.
07:35You say that about a lot of guys, but with this one, he is an outlier.
07:40That's hard for some people to wrap their heads around sometimes,
07:42but I truly believe he is.
07:44When you think about Jeremiah Love, when I think of him and what he does for an offense,
07:48I think of him as a touch guy, and obviously people love to talk position value
07:51and things like that.
07:52You think if people thought of him as a touch guy, a guy who can play in the slot,
07:56run the full route tree, work the quick game outside, do some things besides just being,
08:01I think when people think running back, they think dot the eye.
08:04Is that fair to say if you thought of him as a touch guy, people would think of him higher?
08:08A thousand percent.
08:09I think if you look at what D. John Robinson does in Atlanta,
08:13what the 49ers have been able to do over the years with McCaffrey,
08:16the Lions do it with Gibbs, like Gibbs a couple years ago had like 1,600 yards
08:19and like 60 or 70 catches, you know what I mean, or whatever it was.
08:22Alvin Kamara several years ago, I remember one year he had 1,500 yards, 100 catches.
08:27Remember LaDainian Tomlinson all those years ago when he was cooking?
08:31I mean, that's the type of back that we're talking about.
08:33A guy who is a, yes, a touchback, who you can give 35 touches to in a money game,
08:3825 carries, 10 targets, whatever it is, and he's going to provide.
08:43He's going to be there for you, like that kind of guy.
08:45They're very rare, but like that's exactly what it is.
08:48It's a guy you can get involved and you can get the ball to so many more times
08:51in so many more situations than you could a normal running back.
08:54A normal running back, like Judkins, is a really good running back in the NFL,
08:56but you're not giving him the ball more than 17 times in a game, you know, on a good day.
09:01Most likely you could give the ball to, you could almost double that on certain situations.
09:05Maybe not every week, but in certain situations with love.
09:07Does it make it an easier sell because, you know, you're replacing right now
09:10four-fifths of the offensive line with free agents.
09:13You might have a fifth one there, depending on what you do at 24.
09:17You know, a rookie over there, left tackle, we'll see where it goes.
09:19You know, you usually move better forwards than backwards, so it's like,
09:23well, if we're running the ball like crazy, I mean, they can put 11 in the box,
09:26but if we can get a hat on a hat, maybe we can go ahead and do much better
09:29with Jeremiah Love than what we've been doing running the football.
09:32Yeah, that, I think for a few reasons, that, number one, you know,
09:35that's a great point there.
09:36Number two would be, you know, you don't quite have your future quarterback yet.
09:39The Browns are still sort of searching for that, and I think love is one of those
09:43offensive weapons that will work with any guy you bring in, so whatever style it
09:46may be, or even if Todd Munkin's not the coach in two years or you're going
09:50somewhere else, like, love's going to be fine.
09:52You can plant him in the ground, and he's going to be a dude for you.
09:55The other thing I think that could justify it more also, in theory, would be
09:58you have the other pick in the first round.
10:00You could, you know, you're a team right now that is trying to acquire as many
10:03young, talented players as possible.
10:05To me, it doesn't matter what position they play.
10:07So, at number six, I'm trying to get the absolute best player I can get, period.
10:12End of story.
10:12And if that's Jeremiah Love, that's Jeremiah Love.
10:14And if I have to get my tackle at 26, then that's what I'll do.
10:17You know, and I think that that's another conversation that you could have as well.
10:20You could be a little more aggressive in some of that situation there with the
10:23extra pick.
10:24But I understand also, you know, the Browns haven't had a lot of these picks in
10:26years, so if they want to fill out the roster, that's another conversation.
10:29Nick, I'm looking at my receiver list here.
10:31I got, obviously, everybody talks Lemon, Tyson, Tate.
10:33For me, I don't have a big difference between the next, like, tier as compared
10:37to the first tier.
10:38I think it's close.
10:39And, obviously, you got guys who, you know, are touch guys and slot kind of guys.
10:43I'm not big on saying slot anymore.
10:44I think it's an overrated term.
10:45But guys who touch the ball and then that outside X receiver, guys like Casey
10:49Concepcion.
10:50You know, I love Omar Cooper, even Zachariah Branch.
10:53And then you got the big guys.
10:53You got Boston.
10:54You got Brazil.
10:56Do you think the Browns would be advantageous to kind of leave, though?
11:00I love Makai Lemon.
11:01He's first on my board.
11:02But pass on those first guys and then get a guy with value either at 24 or 39.
11:09Yes, I think that would be a great idea, actually.
11:10Because, like, you mentioned Omar Cooper.
11:12I thought that was, I think he's awesome.
11:13I think he's one of, like, the smoothest, safest players in the class.
11:18You know, just like, I, you know, I've had him a few times.
11:20I was hoping just for, like, convenience, like for the Raiders, if he gets slipped to
11:23Mendoza.
11:24Because, I mean, he is just such a, I think he works with any young quarterback.
11:27He'd help make them better, that kind of thing.
11:29It's a similar conversation, I think, in a different body with Denzel Boston, a
11:33really safe target.
11:34I think you could even go down further, though, right?
11:36Like you mentioned, another guy, Jeremy Bernard, if you get him in the second
11:39round, you know, a guy who's just really safe and easy.
11:42You know, Chris Bell, the kid from Louisville, I don't know what the medicals looked
11:47like on him.
11:47But when he was healthy, you know, people were talking about him as maybe a
11:50first-round pick also.
11:51So I would probably wait if I were them on the receiver, because there's not only
11:55guys there, like you mentioned, 24 and 39.
11:57I think there's probably even some guys maybe in the third round that you could
12:00get that you might be okay with, be it, like, I think Zach Branch might hang around
12:04for a minute.
12:04I like him.
12:05Antonio Williams from Clemson's another one.
12:07And then Surratt, the other Indiana kid, too, maybe a little bit later on day two.
12:11So there's plenty of guys.
12:12There's not a lot of, like, stars.
12:14You know, that's been the big thing.
12:15There's no, you know, big receiver one in this class.
12:17But there's a lot of good players.
12:19You know, Tate, Tyson, and Lemon are all kind of representative of the whole class
12:23to me.
12:23Like, they're solid, really good football players who I think are going to be good.
12:26And I think if you go down the board, there's at least a dozen who we could say the same
12:29thing about.
12:29So I'm the Browns.
12:31I got a good defense.
12:33I got a not-so-good offense.
12:36You got pick number six, pick number 24, pick number 39, pick number 70 in the third
12:40round.
12:42Am I still looking for some impact there by pick number 70?
12:45The, I guess I should say, at 107, can I think about another quarterback?
12:52Yeah, I think so.
12:53I mean, yeah.
12:54I mean, I wouldn't take one before that.
12:57That's kind of what I, that was a long way to ask that question, I know.
13:00But yeah, that's kind of what I was.
13:01I mean, so the guys you're going to look at after that, like, I don't think Nussmeyer
13:06will be there after the third.
13:07But if Nussmeyer were there, absolutely.
13:09I think that's, and Klubnick and Cole Payton would be the other one from North Dakota State.
13:12Those would be the two, Klubnick and Cole Payton, after round three, I would say, yeah,
13:17like, they're worth it.
13:19They're worth a shot.
13:19I don't even, Drew Aller is a guy also physically that I wouldn't totally, like, throw the towel
13:24in on if it was, we're talking late, late day.
13:26I don't know if I would bet money on it, but it's not a completely useless class.
13:31Do you think he goes on Saturday because of his size and because of the arm?
13:36Yeah, I think he might be a Friday night guy.
13:39We have unseen, we've seen a lot with Drew Aller that we can't unsee, but we've also,
13:44it's the, as you just mentioned, it's, he's 6'5", 240, huge arm, and he's very athletic.
13:49And he's pretty young.
13:50He's not that old.
13:51So, yeah, I think he could be a guy that goes higher than people realize.
13:55All right, I got a tight end question for you.
13:57Let's take out Kenyon Sadiq because I think he'll be, obviously, a first-round guy.
14:01The Browns are in need.
14:02It's kind of a hidden, you know, need for the Browns, especially an athletic guy after
14:07Harold Fannin.
14:09You know, a guy like Oscar Delp.
14:10What do you think of Delp?
14:11And are there any other guys?
14:12Like, I think Sam Rauch is a guy who's really good with his hand on the ground.
14:15I think he's a guy that can play the fullback that Munkin has mentioned.
14:19So, besides Oscar Delp, Sam Rauch, I like Michael Trigg.
14:23I like Daquan Wright.
14:23What are some guys that would kind of fit that athletic, moving tight end that Todd Munkin
14:28likes in his 12 personnel?
14:30I really like that kid, the kid from A&M, Nate Borricker.
14:34He's like 6'4", 250.
14:35He was at, I think, the Shrine Bowl or the Senior Bowl, one of the two.
14:38And he was easily the best blocking tight end there who moves pretty well and could move
14:43all over the place.
14:44Exactly what you're talking about.
14:45A guy who could play the H, the fullback, you know, whatever it is.
14:47You could probably get him a little bit late.
14:49He played an offense that made him block.
14:51It's the same thing with Sam Rauch.
14:53Played an offense that made him block, made him do things.
14:55There's Matthew Hibner is a big athletic kid that I think finished up at SMU and started
15:00at Michigan, who will be a little bit later on, that would be available.
15:04And the other one, too, who was at Michigan, actually, who I think exactly what you're
15:08talking about here, Marlon Klein, 6'6", 250, 247, whatever it is.
15:13Really, really good athlete.
15:14I think he's from Germany.
15:16And he's big, long, and a really good blocker who's got, I think, better potential as a
15:20pass catcher, too, but a really good TE, too.
15:22So, would be a really good compliment to Fannin.
15:24I think a guy who could play in line, a guy who could move a little bit, who's still got
15:29some more, you know, room to grow.
15:30Another one I'll give you, too, would be Josh Cuevas from Alabama.
15:33I think he's got really good hands.
15:34He moves really well.
15:35He's not super tall, but another one of those guys that can play the H, can play the fullback
15:39role, whatever it is, the U, and do all the dirty work for you.
15:43So, this is an awesome tight end class.
15:45There are so many guys.
15:47I think there will be guys in the UDFA group that will be of note to, like, you know, take
15:52a deep look at.
15:53Because you mentioned Delp.
15:54I think Delp's a nice player, but, I mean, he's going to be late.
15:56I think he might be late, and maybe even he slips out, because there's so many guys this
16:00year that are just really, really good players.
16:02Nick, we thank you very much for the time.
16:04Awesome, as always.
16:05Thank you so much, and we'll talk to you again soon.
16:08All right, fellas.
16:09Take care.
16:09Nick Baumgartner from The Athletic on the Make It Right Call Kyle Wright Hotline.
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