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00:02It's Emanuela, Emanuela was Emanuela, she was everyone's favorite, good, kind, wherever she saw you, she hugged you,
00:13open embrace, he ran after me, he ran after me.
00:19I was hoping that at least they would tell me that they found her in some hospital, but when it was morning
00:27I really ended up... I felt really anxious, just because I understood that something really serious was
00:37happened to my daughter.
00:40And so our ordeal began.
00:51Good evening everyone, and welcome to Who Has Seen It, Archive.
00:54Emanuele Orlandi and Mirella Gregori have been archived.
00:57The case of two girls, two teenagers who are not missing, who were kidnapped, perhaps even killed, cannot be closed.
01:05So today, here with me, perhaps symbolically, Mirella and Emanuela's relatives have occupied the studio.
01:14Antonietta is here with me next to me because you think that tomorrow, exactly on May 7th,
01:21it was the anniversary of her sister's passing.
01:2432 years ago, on May 7th, Mirella Gregori passed away.
01:29And then I have to say that today is Pietro's birthday, who you all knew and who is
01:34always beaten for his sister Emanuela.
01:37And today he wanted to be here because we always say it because there are sisters, there is brother,
01:45there's also Federica and Cristina with Natalina,
01:48and they are the brother and sisters of Emanuela Orlandi, there is Mirella's sister, but there are also
01:53the others,
01:54that is, those who will take up the baton.
01:56There are Mirella's grandchildren, Antonietta's children, there is Rebecca, there is Elettra, excuse me, who is the
02:02daughter of Peter,
02:03and then the cousin Pietro Meneguzzi, in short the cousin, and there's the brother-in-law, and then there's the cousin
02:09by Mirella.
02:13Sorry for the emotion, but it's just like that.
02:15I believe that today this studio should be symbolically occupied by these two families.
02:21who wanted to make a joint statement to tell us that we want the truth anyway.
02:28We were a little disappointed, no Antonietta, just tomorrow which is the anniversary of your sister's passing,
02:3432 years old on May 7th.
02:36We were disappointed because I didn't expect it, this was the last thing we were thinking about,
02:41instead this request for archiving also arrived.
02:46I hope that something can be done, that we can oppose this thing,
02:52and nothing, you can't forget two 15-year-old girls, absolutely.
02:56Perhaps the filing means not being able to go to trial with the elements that were there,
03:00then we will look at the elements together and in any case the investigations must continue in some way.
03:05No, more than anything, what's disturbing is the fact that they don't agree in the prosecutor's office.
03:10Why Capaldo...
03:10If they all agreed on this, they would probably give us a more logical explanation.
03:16But seeing that some would like the archiving and some would not,
03:20because I think I understood Dr. Capaldo from the statement...
03:23I have to tell our viewers that Capaldo has not signed,
03:26there is a magistrate who has been working on these two cases for ten years,
03:30who did not sign the request for archiving, therefore he did not agree.
03:34So there is a very strong rift within the Rome prosecutor's office.
03:37In fact, he asked for his mandate to be revoked.
03:40So he won't be taking care of it anymore.
03:41He won't deal with it anymore.
03:42He will no longer be the owner of these two cases.
03:45The revocation was closed by a prosecutor who has been advocating for the case for three years.
03:50So he certainly knew less than Capaldo could have known.
03:53I always remember a statement by Capaldo from two years ago,
03:58which he said publicly
03:59there are high-level people in the Vatican
04:02who are aware of what happened on June 22nd.
04:05But they don't talk.
04:06He named the names, I would have liked to make the donations,
04:09and then nothing else was done.
04:10And now he will no longer be part of, let's say, this investigation.
04:16Do you want to introduce yourself?
04:17Because then there are the youngest among you,
04:19those who will take up the baton.
04:22Good evening, I'm Christopher,
04:23I am Mirella Gregori's nephew.
04:27I think I never had the pleasure of knowing my aunt,
04:30because I was born after it all happened.
04:33But I think that now after 32 years,
04:36since that fateful day,
04:37an answer to what really happened to my aunt
04:40is due for us family members.
04:42Electra, you are Peter's daughter.
04:45Hello, good evening.
04:46And Manuela was your aunt.
04:47Yes, I agree with what Christ said,
04:51because we are young and we haven't known
04:53neither me, aunt Manuela, nor Mirella.
04:58So I can say that in part,
05:00it's bad to say it like that,
05:01but I was born almost accustomed to this story.
05:04But it's right that there is an ending,
05:08that is, that the truth comes out.
05:10And so I think I speak for all of us,
05:15that no one gives up here anyway.
05:18So now they fight,
05:20but we will fight afterwards.
05:21You'll be there to take the big piece.
05:23And then there are the cousins.
05:25We don't want to, we don't want to.
05:40You're Manuela's cousin, right?
05:42I am Manuela's cousin,
05:43I am Mario's son,
05:45the idleness he has taken,
05:48precisely, that in the first month,
05:51he was taking the phone calls and everything.
05:53And so, no,
05:54I wanted to say, coming here,
05:57instead I am,
05:58I was thinking about something,
05:59that maybe I don't know,
05:59I had never thought about it.
06:02I had faith in this new Pope,
06:04I had more faith in this new Pope.
06:06In the sense,
06:07I was expecting something.
06:10This was not the case, on the contrary.
06:12And I have to say,
06:12I was thinking about this when I came here.
06:14My uncle,
06:16which again, precisely,
06:18Wait,
06:18the truth,
06:19my aunt,
06:20even more than him,
06:22my uncle played in those gardens,
06:24in that state,
06:25when the Pope wasn't even born.
06:27so, I mean,
06:28respect,
06:29the respect that the state,
06:32the city,
06:33because Emanuela is a Vatican citizen,
06:34she was not a Vatican citizen,
06:35and we must not forget this.
06:38The state,
06:38where the Pope was not yet born,
06:40my uncle played in those gardens,
06:41who had no respect,
06:43it's not my personal,
06:44he had no respect for this family.
06:46And then there's the cousin,
06:48Instead,
06:50Magdalene.
06:54And at this point,
06:55the truth must come out.
06:57At that time,
06:58at 32 years old,
06:59there is also Emanuela's brother-in-law,
07:01we know him well,
07:02Andrea,
07:03Natalina's husband,
07:04That,
07:04At that time,
07:05Peter rightly said,
07:06my dad took the phone calls,
07:08then he did,
07:09In short,
07:10the connection with television,
07:11the press,
07:12etc,
07:12and you instead put the famous recorder,
07:14that he was able to take those calls.
07:17Yes,
07:17but in fact the point is exactly this,
07:18Meaning what,
07:20we have the feeling,
07:21beyond the archiving procedure,
07:24which is a bureaucratic process,
07:27but it's just a human life
07:29it's a bureaucratic process.
07:30Us,
07:31we have our sisters,
07:35aunts,
07:36etc,
07:36which is an important emotional bond,
07:39and we want to know where they are,
07:40what happened.
07:41What happened?
07:42At that time,
07:43we soon,
07:43naturally,
07:44we will show you some documents
07:45which are important,
07:46we will be with them,
07:48but we ask,
07:48in the meantime Natalina rightly asked me
07:50if the provincial plan has been triggered,
07:52sorry to ask you,
07:53to the children of the deceased lord,
07:56for research,
07:57because rightly they with the Penelope Association
08:00they care a lot about it,
08:01they are moving,
08:02a provincial plan has been launched.
08:04the volunteers are on the move
08:06of civil protection.
08:08Civil protection,
08:09so this plan was born
08:10which is wanted by the Penelope Association,
08:13which is very important,
08:14because we always say it,
08:15we must search immediately,
08:16and not like what happened for Emanuela
08:19and for Mirella,
08:21why we are here after 32 years
08:23still asking ourselves
08:24what happened to them.
08:26So, I would start with the first video,
08:31which is particular,
08:33why what's happening?
08:34What the prosecution says
08:35we archive,
08:36a magistrate actually dissociates himself
08:38and does not sign the request,
08:40he says we archive
08:41because there are no certain elements,
08:44some feedback,
08:45but there are no certain elements.
08:46But let's go and see
08:47what are these elements
08:49and if there really is no evidence.
08:51The father of,
08:53a dad says
08:54before dying
08:55my son told me
08:56who had participated
08:58to the kidnapping of Emanuela Orlandi
09:00together with Ciletto and Giggetto.
09:02He is the father of one of the exponents
09:03of the Magliana gang,
09:04his name is Marco Sarnataro
09:06and this says it,
09:08this dad,
09:08he is a magistrate.
09:09It's something we didn't know
09:10and of course we are looking for
09:13to understand the investigations,
09:15what has been done,
09:15who then left,
09:16In short,
09:16from a phone call that arrived
09:17who saw it.
09:18So let's hear the reconstruction
09:20but what he says
09:21the father of one of the exponents
09:23of the Magliana gang
09:24to the investigators.
09:26My son Marco had confided in me
09:28of having participated in the kidnapping
09:30by Emanuela Orlandi
09:31together with Ciletto and Giggetto.
09:33He told me that for several days
09:35him, Ciletto and Giggetto
09:37they had followed him through the streets of Rome
09:38Emanuela Orlandi
09:40on the orders of Renato De Pedis
09:42and called by them the president.
09:44After a few days
09:45they had, always from De Pedis,
09:47the order to collect her,
09:49which they did,
09:50making her come on board
09:51of a BMW
09:52in Risorgimento Square
09:54without any kind of violence.
09:56He told me
09:57that led her
09:58at the EUR lake
09:59where Sergio was waiting for them,
10:01De Pedis' driver,
10:03to whom they delivered
10:04both the machine
10:05both the girl.
10:06Marco told me
10:07that for having done
10:08this courtesy
10:09he received as a gift
10:10a Suzuki 1100 motorcycle.
10:13What a father says
10:14it's the son's confession
10:16because a father
10:16then he should accuse
10:18the son of a kidnapping.
10:20Obviously if you want
10:20say something
10:21hand to hand
10:22you are the masters
10:24and you have occupied
10:25rightly and symbolically
10:26our studio.
10:27Like the investigators
10:29they come to this gentleman
10:32which he then tells his father
10:33I participated
10:34to the kidnapping of Emanuele Orlandi
10:35why Emanuele Orlandi
10:36as it happens
10:38also for Mirella
10:38she is actually being stalked
10:40is followed
10:41they are made
10:42some identikits
10:43and we arrive
10:45with the statements
10:45of the repentants
10:46but also with identikits
10:47to this name
10:48Marco Sarnataro.
10:49So let's show it
10:50the identikit
10:51with the photo
10:52of this
10:53of this
10:54Mr. Marco
10:56what does he say?
10:57to the father
10:57of having participated
10:59to the kidnapping
11:00to have it first
11:01followed and stalked
11:02consider that
11:03the identikits
11:03they are made
11:04because friends
11:05by Emanuele Orlandi
11:06they had it done
11:07they were able to do
11:08some identikits
11:09because they had seen
11:10that there were
11:11of people
11:12that followed
11:13the group precisely
11:14some friends
11:15in particular
11:15Emanuela
11:16even one
11:17he had made a gesture
11:19with the hand
11:19saying
11:20it's her
11:21the comparison with photography
11:22if we can get it back
11:24here it is
11:25this is achieved
11:28the father
11:29and the father says
11:30he confessed to me
11:31of having done
11:32this courtesy
11:33of feet
11:34in exchange
11:35he received
11:36a motorcycle
11:37but the two cases
11:38Orlandi and Gregori
11:40are archived
11:41At that time
11:42who are the suspects?
11:43who is free?
11:44from all charges
11:46from exactly
11:48Yesterday
11:49apart from this gentleman
11:50which has not been investigated
11:51because he had died
11:52everything revolves around
11:53to the band
11:54of the Magliana
11:55and on the phone call
11:56because then
11:57the investigation
11:58has origin
11:59from this phone call
12:00who arrived
12:00just to those who saw it
12:02in July
12:02of 2005
12:03it's a phone call
12:04that brings together
12:05the two cases
12:06Mirella's
12:07and that of Emanuela
12:08we hear
12:11about the finish line
12:12by Emanuela Orlandi
12:13to find
12:13the solution
12:14of the case
12:14go and see
12:15which is buried
12:15in the grip
12:16of the basilica
12:17of Saint Polinare
12:18and of the favor
12:19that Renatino
12:19he did to the cardinal
12:20Poletti
12:21at the time
12:21and ask
12:22to the bartender
12:23of Montebello Street
12:24that even the daughter
12:25he was with her
12:25with the other Emanuela
12:26but since you are silent
12:28you won't say a coincidence
12:29as usual
12:31At that time
12:31this happens
12:32we begin
12:33to hear all the repentants
12:34of the Magliana gang
12:35the collaborators
12:36of justice
12:37Mancini says
12:38that could fit in there
12:39and like the band
12:40of the Magliana
12:40the head of the mobile unit
12:42who was Rizzi at the time
12:44listen to the woman
12:45by De Pedis
12:46what is called
12:47Sabrina Minardi
12:48also because
12:49this phone call
12:49it is said
12:50what is the favor
12:51that is done
12:52from De Pedis
12:54to Cardinal Poletti
12:55and Sabrina Minardi
12:56start talking
12:57Therefore
12:58the first suspect
12:59why the suspects
13:00there are six
13:01everyone free
13:02since yesterday
13:03and we say
13:04archived
13:05from the Rome prosecutor's office
13:06the first suspect
13:07It's Sabrina Minardi
13:08which in practice
13:09he accuses himself
13:10of having been part of
13:11of the kidnapping
13:11by Emanuela
13:12let's hear what he said
13:16I arrived at the bar
13:17Gianicolo by car
13:18Renatino had told me
13:19that I would have met
13:20a girl
13:21and I had to accompany her
13:22at the Vatican gas station
13:24this little girl is coming
13:25she was confused
13:26he wasn't well
13:27he was crying
13:28and laughed together
13:28Renato and Sergio
13:30they put it in the BMW
13:32we were in the car
13:33me and Emanuela
13:34I saw her
13:35from the rearview mirror
13:36she seemed dazed
13:37drugged
13:40at the appointment
13:41there was one
13:42who looked like a priest
13:43got out of a Mercedes
13:44Vatican City license plate
13:46and took the girl
13:48At home
13:48I asked Renatino
13:50to RenÃ
13:50but that wasn't it
13:52if you met her
13:53he answered me
13:53better you forget it
13:55mind your own business
13:57since that time
13:58I haven't seen it anymore
13:58Emanuela Orlandi
14:07and Renatino
14:08he had an appointment
14:09with this Sergio
14:10which brought
14:10he says
14:11the body of Emanuela Orlandi
14:13I don't know
14:14what was inside the bags
14:15why I stayed in the car
14:16he says that however
14:17it would have been better to exterminate everything
14:19he thought so
14:20exterminate everything
14:21so there is no more evidence
14:23there's nothing left
14:29So Minardi speaks
14:31of De Pedis's former driver
14:33his name is Sergio
14:34Sergio Virtue
14:35and he is the second suspect
14:36There are six suspects
14:37then the first
14:38Minardi accuses itself
14:40and then Sergio Virtù
14:41who is a former boxer
14:42member of the gang
14:44of the Magliana
14:44driver
14:45and do everything
14:46by Renatino De Pedis
14:47well
14:48in an interception
14:49the prosecutor's office
14:50what does he discover?
14:51the investigators
14:52what do they discover
14:52who wanted to leave
14:54abroad
14:55run away
14:55and is arrested
14:56this interception
14:57It is particularly interesting
14:59he is talking
15:00Sergio Virtue
15:01with his girlfriend
15:02At night I sent you
15:04a message
15:05since we talked
15:06I was still awake
15:07I couldn't sleep
15:08and I looked at the internet
15:09this thing you told me
15:10this Holland
15:12Olinda
15:12something
15:13What is Holland?
15:15Oh Orlandi
15:16Orlandi
15:17Orlandi
15:18come on
15:18Orlandi
15:19Orlandi
15:20And nothing
15:20I wrote this to you
15:21I read an entire article
15:22on the internet
15:23that's all
15:23Oh
15:24that you had read
15:25of Orlandi
15:26remind me too
15:27that way we're fine
15:28you say
15:28Oh mama
15:29I wanted to forget about them
15:31these things
15:31after 23 years
15:32they're still a pain in the ass
15:33but what do I have to do
15:34oh well
15:35touch fights
15:36there is something concrete
15:37against you
15:38No?
15:39Well
15:39when you see it
15:40but voice
15:40I'll tell you
15:40you understood it
15:42why do I always change
15:43number
15:44you're in
15:45it arrives slowly
15:45No
15:46I thought
15:47that you're having so much fun
15:48unfortunately not
15:49they haunt you
15:50all my life
15:51these are a pain in the ass
15:52Always
15:52I assure you of one thing
15:54I love you
15:55I don't care
15:56what happened
15:57in your past
15:57in your present
15:58and what will happen
15:59in your future
15:59this thing is not
16:01yes for goodness sake
16:02Unfortunately
16:03when I was young
16:04I was in an environment
16:05a little special
16:06we were all reckless
16:07but
16:07I don't regret it
16:08of what I did
16:09I don't regret it
16:10I'm telling you the truth
16:11I did it for the deaf
16:13and I don't care
16:14of what I did
16:14I'm feeling very good
16:15and the problem
16:16I already told you
16:17here you made me
16:18a question
16:19but why
16:19Why
16:20Why
16:20I answered it
16:21Why
16:21because I care
16:22I care
16:23but he takes permits far away
16:25maybe I could have it
16:26some problems
16:27that have repercussions on me
16:27against for this
16:28then it's better
16:29maybe in Italy
16:30don't sift
16:30at least for a little while
16:31this is something else
16:32but you have to stay calm
16:34Understood?
16:37Sergio Vertù under investigation
16:38the second
16:38after Minardi
16:39so he says
16:40I did it for the money
16:41and I don't regret it
16:43Still
16:43they break me
16:44the balls
16:45sorry for the term
16:46he says so
16:47for these events
16:49third suspect
16:50the investigators
16:50they go to see
16:51who are the friends
16:52who you hang out with
16:53in those days
16:54is called
16:55Gianfranco Cerboni
16:56called Gigetto
16:57we have tried
16:58to intercept him
16:59when he came out
17:00from the prosecutor's office
17:01after an interrogation
17:02if we can show
17:03his image
17:05and we look for
17:06to ask him a question
17:08they belong to those who saw it
17:09can I ask you a question?
17:11can I ask you a question?
17:13Excuse me?
17:15you look at a question
17:16we make her go away
17:17they investigated it
17:18for the kidnapping
17:19by Manuela Orlando
17:21please
17:21a question
17:22for the family
17:24but they investigated it
17:25for the kidnapping
17:27it's a shame
17:28because she says
17:28that has nothing to do with it
17:29What?
17:32why do I have to keep quiet?
17:34Excuse me?
17:39Excuse me
17:40then he too
17:42member of the gang
17:43of the Magliana
17:43under investigation
17:44and now
17:45no longer under investigation
17:46why the prosecution
17:47he asked
17:47the archiving
17:48who is the fourth
17:49under investigation?
17:50it's another one
17:51always rotating
17:52on that tour
17:53is called
17:53Angelo Cassani
17:54called Ciletto
17:55but also said
17:56the little killer
17:57is identified
17:58him too
17:59because friends
17:59by Emanuele Orlandi
18:00they saw
18:01these people
18:02that they were stalking
18:03the girl
18:04and they were made
18:05these identikits
18:07when they reopen
18:08the investigations
18:09a friend of Emanuela
18:10to a friend of Emanuela
18:11are shown
18:12more photos
18:12he recognizes it
18:13one with a dry blow
18:14and says
18:15what has given us
18:15followed
18:16it was him
18:17it's Ciletto himself
18:18he too is an exponent
18:20of the band
18:20of the Magliana
18:21him too
18:22we searched
18:23to intercept him
18:25he was gone
18:26in the prosecutor's office
18:26to be
18:27interrogated
18:28and on the contrary
18:29of Cerbone
18:29instead he
18:30it stops
18:31to speak
18:31with us
18:32and here it is
18:32what does it tell us?
18:34we belong to whom
18:35he saw it
18:36we are taking care of it
18:37of this story
18:38with family members
18:39tell us
18:40good people
18:41I'm half
18:42to trouble
18:43it's your fault
18:44so she says
18:45that has nothing to do with it
18:46with this story
18:47I have never had it
18:47nothing entered
18:48in this story
18:49but can you tell us?
18:51only if she
18:51he knew De Pedis
18:52at least
18:57Angelo Cassani
18:58can you answer me
19:02look
19:02for the family
19:03by Manuela Orlandi
19:04they are waiting
19:04for thirty years
19:05the truth
19:05because I
19:07if they are waiting
19:08for thirty years
19:09I hope
19:10that they arrive
19:10to the truth
19:11of this thing
19:12because it has nothing to do with it
19:13and I found myself
19:14a medium
19:14for some
19:15you who listen
19:16to people
19:17that I don't think
19:18that has credibility
19:19find out more
19:20but Sabrina Minardi
19:21she knows her
19:22that she
19:22he made his name
19:24and he recognized her
19:26in photo
19:26I don't know how he did it
19:28to do it
19:28someone told him
19:29to say it
19:30but according to her
19:30the Magliana flag
19:31then it has nothing to do with it
19:32with kidnapping
19:33but I
19:35I don't know
19:36the Magliana flag
19:38it's involved
19:38it has nothing to do with it
19:39I can say
19:39just one thing
19:40with many things
19:41that there could be
19:43At that time
19:43of the secret services
19:45deviated
19:45of the Vatican
19:46I don't think so
19:47that they were going
19:47to put
19:48in the hands
19:49of a criminal
19:50that is, she says
19:50who was someone
19:51of the secret services
19:53I don't know
19:53no I'm not saying that
19:55I said
19:55other parts to be investigated
19:57because it seems to me
19:57people
19:58what you put
19:59in the middle of
20:00they were put
20:00in the middle of
20:01cardinals
20:02of the Vatican
20:03I don't think so
20:03that they put on
20:04in the hands
20:06of people
20:07let's say
20:08of the criminal
20:09De Petis
20:10that is, they would not have used
20:11someone like her
20:12not like me
20:14because I have nothing to do with it
20:15but she has nothing to do with it
20:16not even with De Petis
20:17not even with De Petis
20:18I have never been
20:19stopped together
20:20never taken a photograph
20:21Together
20:21I've never had it
20:22a phone call together
20:23I've never had it
20:24Nothing
20:24with Mr. De Petis
20:25so she says
20:26the Magliana gang
20:27it has nothing to do with it
20:28or she has nothing to do with it
20:29I have nothing to do with it
20:31I don't know if it has anything to do with it
20:32the Magliana gang
20:33but as my deduction
20:35I think they would have
20:37they would have served themselves
20:38of other people
20:39which unfortunately
20:40one says
20:40how do you do it?
20:41I followed the story
20:42I made myself
20:43one of mine
20:44like I think everyone does
20:46my opinion
20:46and as a judgment
20:47I think that
20:48there was no reason
20:50That
20:50At that time
20:51she
20:52cardinal
20:53or anyone
20:54he would have put himself
20:56in the hands
20:56of a criminal
20:58let's say
20:58of a crooked man
21:01that's how it is
21:02how it had been placed
21:03his life
21:04in the hands
21:04by De Petis
21:05I don't think it is
21:07a normal thing
21:08that one does
21:09knowing that then
21:11being a character
21:12flowing
21:13I think because
21:13that cardinal
21:14that they had put in the middle
21:15I don't remember what it's called
21:16he was a character
21:17she talks about Marcinkus
21:19I think so
21:19it's him
21:20that they were saying
21:21Excuse me
21:22they have it
21:23many services
21:24inside the Vatican
21:25they say there were
21:25of the services
21:26deviated secrets
21:27some things
21:28and the Vatican
21:28they put themselves
21:29in the hands
21:29by De Petis
21:30but that's nonsense
21:32then he does a right thing
21:34observation
21:35but what
21:36the prosecutor's office discovers
21:37of Rome
21:37At that time
21:39Angelo Cassani
21:40He tells us about Marcinkus
21:41he says
21:41they put it there
21:43in the middle of
21:43I don't know
21:43because he says
21:44they put it there
21:45in the middle of
21:45who put it?
21:46in the middle of
21:46but in reality
21:47he says why
21:48a cardinal
21:49it should be
21:50let's say take advantage
21:51of collaboration
21:52of one
21:52of the band
21:53of the Magliana
21:53which then could
21:54blackmail him
21:55etc.
21:55well
21:56you know what
21:57they discovered
21:58the investigators
21:59That
22:01the driver
22:02by Monsignor
22:04Marcinkus
22:04it's Luciano
22:05Mancini
22:06said
22:07The Prince
22:08and it is an element
22:09prominent
22:10of the band
22:10of the Magliana
22:11burdened
22:12from numerous
22:13previous ones
22:14penalties
22:14Therefore
22:15an exponent
22:16of the band
22:16of the Magliana
22:17he acts as a driver
22:18you know
22:18how important it is
22:19the driver
22:20somehow
22:21he hears everything
22:21he is a collaborator
22:22and he's a driver
22:24by Marcinkus
22:25and this
22:26he says it
22:26the prosecutor's office
22:27of Rome
22:28who has archived
22:29but
22:29he decided
22:30to archive
22:31the investigations
22:33fifth suspect
22:34the fifth suspect
22:35he is a person
22:36somehow
22:36sorry for the term
22:37but surreal
22:38this Don Vergari
22:39that always the cards
22:41they say
22:41he took
22:42quite a bit
22:43of money
22:43allow
22:44in the crypt
22:45in the basilica
22:45of Saint Polinare
22:46the bandit
22:48of the Magliana
22:50that is Renatino
22:51De Pedis
22:52Enrico De Pedis
22:53he said
22:54Renatino
22:54At that time
22:55what's happening
22:56why he is being investigated
22:57he is under investigation
22:57for a simple fact
22:59why Emanuela
22:59he leaves the basilica
23:01of Saint Polinare
23:03from the Flute school
23:04actually
23:04that is there
23:05own active
23:06to the basilica
23:07he goes out
23:08disappears
23:09and enter instead
23:10in that basilica
23:11we can say
23:12the tomb
23:13by De Pedis
23:15after many years
23:16in 90
23:17More De Pedis
23:17Emanuele Orlandi
23:18with Mirella Gregori
23:19they disappear
23:20in '83
23:21but it's a place
23:22particular
23:23so the investigators
23:24they think
23:24if De Pedis
23:26it's involved
23:26the band is involved
23:26migliana
23:27could fit in there
23:28also Monsignor Vergari
23:29could be
23:30was hidden
23:31in the basilica
23:32and also
23:32Monsignor Vergari
23:34we have it
23:34searched
23:35several times
23:36I just wanted
23:37ask her
23:38an explanation
23:39No
23:40I know
23:41but I read
23:41what he wrote
23:42on the site
23:43it can't be
23:44maybe an explanation
23:45it's there
23:45there is no explanation
23:47it's all there
23:47it's all there
23:48listen father
23:49you with the big voice
23:50you understand I ask myself
23:52no the problem
23:52is that we
23:53we left
23:53from that
23:54and it's strange
23:55people too
23:56she took offence
23:56of this thing
23:57doesn't it seem strange to you
23:58Good day
23:59no I understood
24:00but why doesn't he give us
24:01an answer
24:02excellent
24:03that's all there is to it
24:04HI
24:07Don Pietro
24:08Good morning
24:08you must forgive me
24:09a question of yours
24:10she says she knew
24:12who was
24:12De Petis
24:14from the newspapers
24:14then why did he do it
24:15bury the same
24:16in there
24:19and anyway
24:20I believe that one thing
24:20good it was
24:21made after
24:22I have to say
24:23above all
24:23the popular movement
24:25against this tomb
24:26in this basilica
24:27In short
24:28it was removed
24:29before going
24:30to the last suspect
24:31No
24:32which in reality
24:34that you accept
24:35which then
24:36it turns out
24:37that has nothing to do with it
24:38they consider it
24:38a liar
24:39Peter
24:40we want to comment
24:41or Natalina
24:42or
24:42that is, this first part
24:44then the findings
24:45they say
24:46there is something
24:47but there are no certain things
24:49yes indeed
24:50the problem is that
24:51there are no certain things
24:52you should know
24:53what are the points
24:54and contrast
24:55Between
24:56Dr. Pignatone
24:57and Dr. Cavallo
24:58but it makes an impression
24:59these testimonies
25:01these
25:01these plots
25:03this interception
25:04of virtue
25:05what does he say?
25:05I
25:06I don't wear any
25:07In my opinion
25:08if they played a role
25:09they played a role
25:10of laborers
25:10because that
25:11it was their role
25:12that of laborers
25:13and probably
25:14Usually
25:14who does the labor
25:15probably
25:16he is not aware
25:17not even who is the instigator
25:18and the motive
25:19but if everyone
25:20or does anyone know
25:22they still have
25:22fear
25:23or I am
25:23mertosi
25:25also because I have to say
25:26what a virtue
25:26then one thing
25:27he says it
25:27he says I always change
25:28the phone
25:29because it's clear
25:29doesn't want to be
25:31intercepted
25:31and so if it always changes
25:32the phone
25:33and he says I
25:33I don't regret that
25:35Done
25:35what I did
25:36reason
25:36or explain to us
25:37what was he talking about?
25:39the fact that he says
25:40how can it
25:42a cardinal
25:43get in touch
25:44or to serve oneself
25:45of a person
25:45of the underworld
25:46and instead
25:47of course
25:47the driver
25:48Magliana era
25:49most likely
25:50De Petis
25:50he also attended
25:51the Vatican environment
25:52he frequented
25:53the Yor
25:53a series of people
25:54they attended
25:55the Yor
25:55that they were not
25:56beautiful people
25:58Certain
25:58All right
25:59At that time
26:01let's go on this
26:02character
26:03who entered
26:03In short
26:04me among other things
26:05every time
26:05what am I saying
26:05who is a braggart
26:07I get a complaint
26:08so now
26:09he always tells me
26:09the lawyer
26:10that they are suing me
26:11I think I've arrived
26:12at least 10
26:13but
26:14for once
26:14In short
26:15apparently
26:16we were right
26:18because even the prosecutor's office
26:18he says look
26:21Marco Accetti
26:22he's a liar
26:23who is he
26:23what does he say?
26:24I participated
26:25to the kidnapping
26:27I had it found
26:27the flute
26:28but he is being investigated
26:29because practically
26:30he slandered
26:31he slandered himself
26:32so the height of it all
26:33this is it
26:34that only one remains
26:35under investigation
26:35in cases
26:36by Mirella
26:37and Emanuela
26:38that is, he
26:39that with the case
26:40by Mirella
26:40and Emanuela
26:41for the prosecution
26:42it has nothing to do with it
26:43and therefore he is investigated
26:44because it has nothing to do with it
26:45he told lies
26:46and he slandered himself
26:48of having been part of
26:49there will be a trial
26:51towards Accetto
26:53for now
26:53I do not know
26:53if it will then be postponed
26:54on trial
26:55Peter
26:55but for now
26:56he remains the only suspect
26:57he is under investigation
26:58but not for the kidnapping
26:59of your sister
27:01or of Antonietta
27:01because he had said
27:02who had seen her
27:03etc.
27:03he accused himself
27:04but why did he accuse himself?
27:06slander
27:06and he did so
27:07then you accept
27:08we must remember this
27:10naturally
27:10what does he do?
27:11You accept
27:11comes to our editorial office
27:13And
27:15In short
27:15the colleagues are there
27:16as it always is done
27:17Obviously
27:18they recorded
27:19that
27:19that he said
27:20Accetti's first day
27:21to our editorial team
27:22We see
27:24being me
27:25of the fact
27:25they border
27:26of the creative
27:26because everything
27:27was born then
27:28from
27:28one of mine
27:29very unfortunate idea
27:32that of using
27:33precisely
27:34of the girls
27:34to call back
27:35Fatima
27:35and influence
27:36who we wanted
27:38I repeat
27:38there was no killer
27:41creatively
27:42I thought
27:43to go
27:45step by step
27:46to make it found
27:48the flute
27:48as a situation
27:50emotional
27:52and inside
27:54of a scenography
27:55among other things
27:56specification
27:57mythological
27:58the film of the years
28:0050
28:0060
28:03At that time
28:03and actually
28:04it really is
28:05a creative
28:06we got there
28:07naturally
28:07to study
28:08this figure
28:09that arrives
28:10and tells us
28:11I was part of
28:11of the kidnapping
28:12they are both
28:13lives
28:13they were consenting
28:14they didn't want to stay
28:15with families
28:16I saw her
28:16in a caravan
28:17then out
28:19from the caravan
28:20etc.
28:20let's go and see
28:21what he did
28:21limitation
28:22by Benigni
28:24you accept
28:24he also did
28:25Roberto
28:26Benign
28:26let's do it together
28:33I would like to do
28:34a question
28:35at a certain return
28:37of voice
28:39but what would I have won?
28:40the medal
28:41the medal
28:43the kiss
28:43of the bra
28:43there is a sum
28:45florins
28:46for that
28:46we are not there yet
28:47equipped
28:48one with the wild boar
28:49in a motel
28:50a motorbike ride
28:52another question
28:53because he
28:53did not participate
28:55as a lookalike
28:56as a lookalike
28:57I am always
28:58I could put myself
28:58Yes
28:59let's say that
28:59Yes
29:00Oh
29:01misery
29:02No
29:02No
29:02No
29:02No
29:02No
29:02No
29:03No
29:03No
29:03No
29:03No
29:04No
29:05No
29:06No
29:06Yes
29:06OK
29:09At that time
29:10and you accept
29:11when you accept
29:11kiss
29:12magalli
29:13we can say
29:14what do we do
29:14let's talk to mom
29:15of course you accept
29:16which tells us that he is obsessed
29:18from the story of Emanuela Orlandi
29:19and that of Mirella Gregori
29:21who would like to be a director
29:22the screenwriter
29:23the actor
29:24the appearance
29:25and a production about their story, the story of these two girls who disappeared.
29:31In short, the mother tells us, look, he clearly made it all up.
29:35and in the meantime he posts his material to Cetti on the internet, which he defines as artistic.
29:46Little soldier! Little soldier! He's here!
30:04I do something that makes the city go backwards
30:15it's a big step for humanity I'm the photographer who called then the
30:29I would like to advertise it with water hitting your face, the water has a sensual effect
30:39as in commercial photos he does not open his eyes but the most intense photo never opens
30:54we all come from the water
31:05sorry girl you can come down but you have dyed hair right listen I would like to do a test for one
31:18that I have to do it badly so I withdraw for the sake of fiction it hurts only for a moment and to understand the scene I
31:28leave sir it hurts then what happens but you accept he shows up with his blonde girlfriend
31:42and now she also has something to do with this story because she says she saw your sister
31:47in Paris in 2012 and so we start again a little from the beginning with these with these strange ones
31:54statements maybe we can show it because you accept we have it with this blonde girl
31:59here we are at the prosecutor's office because he goes back and forth with the prosecutor's office but anyway the prosecutor's office
32:06he decided that he is a liar as far as accepting we have to say something important if the
32:15the prosecution has decided that he is a liar, but we must remember that in this case what is it?
32:21garramon that child who was killed by the axe wheels he says by chance he found it in front of him
32:27at the pine forest of Ostia and well they believed them it's not that he was a liar there too they ask themselves
32:34there
32:34Mom, what is Garramon and she wrote to us, she learned about the archiving of your cases and of course
32:40she was impressed and wrote us this this these emails last night and said accept as I always have
32:49so he said he is a perverted pedophile and that he wanted his moment of fame and so what did he decide
32:57She has decided to go to Strasbourg with her lawyers to ask for justice to be done.
33:04because she says my son lives in the Euro area he can't find himself alone in the pine forest of Ostia like
33:11someone arrived and brought him there so he was kidnapped and then he wants justice from the court of
33:18Strasbourg will go abroad because he says I didn't get justice in Italy and anyway
33:25naturally we will try to follow his reasons as well and then contrast his case
33:30with horse they were about accepts then Peter I have to tell you that we tried to talk
33:36with the prosecution obviously to understand what the points of conflict are but we have not succeeded
33:40they told us we also tried to talk to the Vatican with the Holy See because we know
33:46how important it is for you now we heard it in the words of your cousin Pietro
33:51but I must also say that I always say the kidnapping or killing was done in
33:56against a Vatican citizen therefore Emanuele is a Vatican citizen therefore a wound in the breast
34:01to the Vatican state not only for the family no and therefore we spoke with
34:06they are inevitably linked to this story but they told us since it is a decision
34:11We don't want to comment on Italian justice, this is what they said
34:15they never change, they are always the same, that's why we've reached the point of archiving
34:21even an Italian citizen must ask for justice, no, it's certainly not a given
34:26Of course it would be a shame, because when the Italian state asks for mandates
34:31international tenants to listen to cardinals and they refuse to let them listen
34:36of the cardinals if they had a clear conscience we at the Vatican anyway why don't they tell us
34:42something anyway the Vatican should say we want the truth because
34:47we want to collaborate because she is their citizen also in the Latina agreements the first article
34:51maximum cooperation between the two states for the good of the country exists only on one side
34:55limit of collaboration but it is on the other side so this makes us understand that something
34:59they hide it look Antonietta for absurdity of this story no the two events that we do not
35:05We obviously understood if your sisters are related but your parents fought
35:10together so at a certain point they had the identikits made they had everyone made
35:14well I have to say that both the father Ercole and your father then in the end there were deaths no
35:20precisely because of the disappointment and in this absurdity the same end for both because the cases
35:26they come together let's say reopened and archived together both archived both for your sister
35:33that for their sister I have to say we stayed because tomorrow is the anniversary of the
35:40Mirella's disappearance because we actually tell our viewers
35:44We had invited you, we wanted to make a memory of something, we didn't expect it to happen
35:49this this what more can we say you always say if anyone knows we will renew it
35:57always the appeal to put aside the silence and it is really if someone knows something despite
36:0332 years have passed to open up and tell the truth once and for all without it seeming
36:10strange, we don't look 32 years old, that's the difference, those who are watching us now say
36:16but after 32 years, what do they still want, no, but look, people understand it instead
36:22I'm all with you, there's so much solidarity because you don't know who understands who understands us
36:28whoever passes through here like us now, but not only me, I believe that there are really many citizens
36:33who have always shown great solidarity for these families who are in the first place
36:37among other things, they have fought and are trying to help with the Penelope association
36:42everyone who is going through this then see you right after this short break
36:49then archived without the signature of one of the magistrates who had been dealing with it for ten years
36:53years of Pietro's case you wanted to add something no you wanted before you said that you have
36:58I asked the Vatican for a comment and they said we don't make comments, they don't have to make any comments.
37:02their comments must oppose this archiving they must ask for explanations because it is a
37:09Vatican citizens can't just rub their hands together because the whole thing has been archived
37:13and so they have a clear conscience, they must oppose what Pope Francis did, he said
37:18one thing is clear the only thing he said is about Emanuela he said to my mother
37:22he said emanuela is in heaven delicate way of saying emanuela died at that moment I
37:27I thought that maybe there was the possibility of opening up a collaboration.
37:32so many requests that is you thought something you died unfortunately it's bad like
37:37news but it means that because there is no one I said there is no proof so
37:40I will always look for it but if that's the case I hope you help me try to find it
37:44the truth is that since I made so many requests for an explanation the wall has risen
37:48more than before so they must not comment on the archiving they must oppose the archiving
37:54otherwise we will be forced as family members to make an application to the Vatican tribunal for
38:01internal investigations are underway within the Vatican into certain situations that have never been clarified
38:06and obviously you also have a lawyer who will have to read everything because then it is
38:11clearly the families' decision must be to understand whether the investigation actually does not
38:16it has some foundations so it was about nothing and therefore it is right that all of them are archived or
38:23In short, you will have a few days to decide whether to oppose this archiving, so it's a
38:28Let's say I don't even ask you because it's too early obviously you but the days are few
38:32because fifteen twenty days are only to study districts but also my lawyer said
38:37who was busy trying to see if there were any valid elements, in short I just wanted to remember one
38:45thing that on June 14th there is a big demonstration that is open to all family members
38:49of the disappeared in which we will obviously participate, we always have a recurrence every year
38:55but this year we should extend it to all those families of missing people who have not
38:59voice are not forgotten by the institutions and the penis for all the families of the people
39:05disappeared so we make the appointment and we also put it on the website I want to organize at 9.30
39:10on June 14th the Campidoglio square up to St. Peter's Square was crowded with people
39:16Rome on June 14th and then as always we are with you but after all now we are family and not
39:23they go
39:24I forgot but we, well, how are we dealing with all the emergencies now, mum, we all do it
39:31but then look, it's obvious that the family members don't want someone to be guilty, that is, it's not that they think
39:39that it was necessarily the Magliana gang, sorry if I try to interpret that they were
39:44necessarily these suspects or rather than others of theirs when they say we do not want the case to be archived
39:49in the sense that I say we want to know what happened to Mirella and Manuela so the fact of
39:56to archive means that investigations have been carried out for years which have led to nothing and that
40:01probably these two cases are put back in the drawer and that's what they mean
40:06say and they came no for this pain because the family members who have their cases archived because there are
40:13I am
40:14many like the red one was recently archived, in short with the father who died there in the sense that clearly
40:20the archiving you want the truth then these are not the suspects but there will be others the important thing obviously is that yes
40:26it continues and we will move forward so naturally we with them have done a bit of a race in short to try to
40:33to understand what had happened but we have put some points on this particular phone call of virtue that
40:39we were commenting with them before where he says that he changes his phone which was a youthful mistake and that he doesn't
40:45This father who says my son confessed to me that he was part of the kidnapping and in repents
40:51he had a motorcycle in exchange for all the things that are in the investigation file
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