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00:00talking some Browns off-season stuff, potential Joel Batonio retirement, not official, but we'll
00:06see where that's going to go with his former teammate, Browns legend and Hall of Famer,
00:10and Hall of Fame beef, the man behind the beef as we say it. Joe Thomas joins us now. Joe,
00:15welcome to the show, buddy. Hey, guys. Thanks for having me on. Well, it's great to have you on
00:20here. I think Andrew Barry, I really like what he did with the offensive line, and I got some hope
00:26about this team going into 2026 because of the offensive line. Walk us through your thoughts
00:32on the guys they've added here and how maybe this can be different than last year in the
00:36trenches for the Browns. Well, it's going to be an entire line change. You're talking to hockey as
00:41you're calling me in here, and that's going to be what it kind of looks like right now for the
00:46Browns offensive line. They did a great job acquiring Titus Howard from Houston. They brought in before
00:51that my offensive line coach, who I had the longest during my career, George Warhop, one of the best
00:56offensive line coaches in the NFL. He was fantastic with me, and he's gone on and done great things
01:02everywhere he's been. He's got experience with Titus Howard, so he knows what he's all about,
01:07and I think he's going to be a huge addition for the Cleveland Browns, not only George, but Titus.
01:12And then I thought they did a great job. Zion Johnson, guard, Elton Jenkins, who's a guy who I
01:17got to see a lot up close in person, being that he was with the Packers, two really quality guys,
01:21great run blockers, and I think they fit with what this offense is going to try to be,
01:26and that's George's mentality has always been big, tough, physical, in-your-face, smash-mouth type
01:32offensive lines, creating holes in the running game, giving your quarterback time and space in
01:37the pocket, so I think it's going to be a totally re-looked offensive line. We'll see what happens
01:41with Joel Batonio, but overall, I think they made some great moves shoring up that offensive line,
01:46which is probably the biggest question mark going into this offseason with as much turnover
01:51as they're facing. How hard is that to get as many new pieces to this offensive line
01:55and then just be expected to hit the ground running week one?
01:59Well, I think it's tough, but what they're doing smartly is they're adding veterans, right?
02:03Veterans are a lot better, clearly, because of experience with just being able to get plugged
02:08into a situation, especially guys like Titus, who have experience with George Warop and his line
02:13calls and what his expectations are. So it's a lot easier for those guys to just plug and play than
02:18it is
02:18for a rookie who, you know, he doesn't know his butt from a hole in the ground when they show
02:22up,
02:22even though they might be first-round draft choices. So I think that when they were able to
02:27add those guys, that was huge, especially when you look at free agency as a whole, was really
02:31not overvaluing. I will say properly valuing the trench players, finally, with a bunch of guys
02:37getting paid humongous money that probably a lot of people had never heard of, but in the NFL today,
02:43offensive line especially is one of the hardest positions to fill. There's just not as many
02:48quality players around as there used to be, and a lot of times you're going to have to pay a
02:52lot
02:52of money to get them. So I think the Browns did a great job getting a lot of good value
02:55turning over that entire offensive line. Joe, is there a through line of a trait or traits
03:02that of like the great offensive lines you've either played on or witnessed in football?
03:08It's always about smartness, right? It's how intelligent are you? How quickly are you able
03:13to adapt and overcome a situation that comes up on the field? You got two or three seconds
03:18between a line call that's made and being able to be ready to go execute and work five guys
03:24together as one to be able to change assignments, double teams, all those things that come into being
03:29an offensive lineman. So the first thing you got to have is you got to be really, really smart.
03:34All the great offensive lines that I was on when we had Joel Batonio, Alex Mack, Mitchell Schwartz,
03:39John Greco, like we were all smart guys first, and then we were all okay athletes who could kind
03:44of overcome that because we had great technique. We understood where we needed to be. We were,
03:49our eyes were in the right place. Footwork was always on point. We were working together
03:53as a unit. And so if you can get smart guys that are fundamentally sound, you can build tough guys.
04:00You can build the strength a little bit in the weight room. You can add a little weight if you
04:04need it, depending on what you want, but they got to be smarter. They can't play the position.
04:08All right. You mentioned Joel a couple of times there. How do you think this ends? Do you think
04:11he retires? Do you think he goes to another team or does he come back one more year for the
04:14Browns?
04:16I would be surprised if he goes to another team, to be totally honest. I mean, he's played his whole
04:20career in Cleveland. And I think talking with him being one of my best buds, I think he understands
04:25the value that that is to just be able to walk away with a lot of pride that, Hey, you
04:31know what?
04:31I started in one place and then I finished in that same spot. And I think the value for you
04:36personally is huge, but also I've talked to him about how much it means to me that, you
04:41know, I got to go into the hall of fame as a Cleveland Brown. There was no question marks.
04:44There was no wondering, Oh, is he going to go into this team or that team? And, you know,
04:48even though we didn't finish successfully on top, like I had hoped and thought we would
04:53be able to with turning the team around, like I still have a lot of pride knowing that people
04:57come up to me on the street, whether it's Cleveland, Ohio, or Wisconsin or somewhere else
05:01and saying, you know what? That's pretty cool that you were loyal to one place. There's not
05:04many guys that have played their entire career for one franchise. And it's becoming more rare
05:11every single year with the amount of free agency moves and things that are happening in today's
05:16NFL. And I think he values that. So I think if he does decide to play another year, which
05:20I have no idea if he's going to or not, I would expect it to be back in Cleveland.
05:24Joe, I know you're on the record with a lot of very other smart people that you think Joel
05:29is a hall of famer, but you've also spoken about the kind of plight, the uphill run that
05:36the guards have to make, to make the hall of fame, as opposed to other spots in the field.
05:42I know I'm asking you this as a offensive lineman and as a hall of famer, why don't guards
05:47get and centers to interior offensive linemen get the hall of fame love that maybe they deserve?
05:53So I see there's kind of like four tiers, right? There's kind of like quarterback tier. All right.
05:57Everybody knows a quarterback, right? They have the name, they have the reputation, they have the
06:02stats. Then you've got the other positions, right? Like Miles Garrett, he's going to walk into the
06:06hall of fame. Everybody knows about him, but he's got the stats. You got receivers, you got guys that
06:11can accumulate stats throughout their career to get recognition. There's kind of the third tier,
06:15which is where it kind of tackles defensive tackles fall. You either don't have stats or the stats are all
06:21not that meaningful. And so a lot of it's reputation based, but you play a premium position,
06:26you get paid a premium. And so you get a lot of notice and notoriety throughout the league
06:31for having the big contracts for being sort of the glamorous line position. But then there's the
06:39last tier, right? Which is kind of down there with the Corey Bohorquez of the world, the specialists.
06:44And that's where the guards and centers are, right? Even the top guards in the league who are maybe
06:49getting those contracts, people just don't know about them because it's not the sexy position.
06:53It's not the guy who's on the edge blocking edge rushers one-on-one. And so really you got to
06:58be a
06:58nerd of the game to really like appreciate great guard and center play. So typically those guys,
07:04their merits of whether they get voted into the hall of fame or not are largely based on all pros
07:10and
07:11pro bowls. And those votes happen a lot of times on the offensive line based on, Hey, was their team
07:16successful? Did they play with a quarterback that had a lot of success? And we saw that he had plenty
07:21of time and did they have a running back that put up big yards and it takes some time to
07:26get a
07:26reputation throughout the league as a guard or a center before you do start getting named to pro
07:31bowls and all pros. And this is one of my points I always make about Joel, like largely his hall
07:36of
07:37fame status is going to be because of pro bowls and all pros, but it took him a few years
07:42to finally
07:42get the recognition he needed. So I think personally, he probably missed three, four pro
07:47bowls and a couple all pros where he was playing at that level or beyond as one of the best
07:52guards
07:52in the league, but people just didn't know about him yet. Right. And so I think that's one of the
07:57challenges for him. And, you know, I don't know if that'll ever be right. I think one of the benefits
08:01of pro football focus is you are able to see grades now. Now people argue if they're perfectly
08:08accurate, but when I started at the NFL, we didn't even have pro football focus. There was no grades.
08:12It was just, you know, bozos like me talking on the radio about, Hey, this guy's good. Or this guy
08:16stinks or he had a good game or a bad game. And I may have only watched the TV copy,
08:21which is about
08:21impossible to tell if somebody did a good job on the offensive line or not. And so I think with
08:27the
08:27advent of pro football focus, maybe when they're sitting in that room and they're voting for hall of
08:31famers with Joel, they'll go back and they'll look at the grades that he put up throughout his career,
08:37even before he had that recognition as one of the premier guards. And maybe that'll help kind
08:42of sway some of those voters to give him the respect that he deserves. Joe, what do you think
08:46the plan is at quarterback for this upcoming season? If you knew, I would love for you to tell
08:52me too, but by the, by the looks of it at this point, and a lot can change, right? You
08:57know,
08:57we just had the combine and there's a lot of things that can happen before the draft, but it seems
09:01like
09:01the Browns where they sit and where their evaluation is of the rookie quarterback class
09:07that they don't feel that one of those guys right now is worth trading up for, or that they will
09:13be
09:13able to have a guy that they love fall to them. And so they don't want to force it. So
09:18it seems that it's
09:20going to be Deshaun Watson and Shadour Sanders kind of competing it out. And I'd imagine they're going
09:25to add another veteran or another possible starter via trade, or like I mentioned, maybe there's a
09:31veteran that becomes available to compete in that room. But right now, especially with the new head
09:37coach, they're focused on fixing the biggest core problems on the team right now. Right. And that was
09:43one offensive line got to get the offensive line, right? Because it almost doesn't matter who's that
09:48quarterback. If you just got a sieve for an offensive line. And so I think they wanted to do that
09:53and
09:53they want the priorities to be, Hey, get the offensive line, right? Let's find a weapon at
09:57receiver to kind of add something to this offense, make it a bit more dynamic. And then they're
10:03feeling like, Hey, we, we can be a better team automatically, which will give us the best
10:08opportunity to evaluate Shadour as a young player who has had some great moments and some not so great
10:13moments. And we'll give Deshaun an opportunity to prove that maybe he is still got something left of
10:19what we saw when he was with the Houston Texans, even though he's gone through, you know,
10:23a lot of injuries and been out of the game a lot since we brought him in. So I think
10:29that that's
10:29kind of their tentative plan saying, Hey, let's get everything else, right. And not force picking
10:33a quarterback right now and getting tied to that position, knowing that, Hey, we're sitting a little
10:39further back in the draft than maybe we thought. And also like, we don't really love any of the guys
10:44that might be available right now. And next year's draft might give us a better opportunity to solve
10:49that quarterback for the longterm. Joe, I know he's, it seems to be earmarked for Minnesota right
10:54now, but Kyler Murray is taking calls from other teams as well. Before he makes his decision,
11:00he would be on a one year vet men deal because of the offset or because the money in Arizona.
11:06If the Browns sign Kyler Murray tomorrow, how would that change your expectations for 2026 for the
11:11Browns? Well, immediately you have a huge upgrade at quarterback. Cause although they didn't love him in
11:17Arizona based on performance, probably maturity a little bit. Um, and also the contract that he
11:22had, he's still a good quarterback. And I think him specifically, when you look back in history at
11:29other quarterbacks throughout the league and other positions, like sometimes when you got somebody that
11:33comes in with tremendous fanfare, you know, top pick in the draft, and maybe they don't have the
11:39maturity to play great right away all the time, have that consistency, that dedication, that work ethic
11:45that you expect. And they've had some success. Um, but it just doesn't work out, but they get
11:52released. They get humbled a little bit. They realize that when they're looking in the mirror,
11:56they're not the player that they thought they were, and that they're going to need to kind of
11:59reevaluate their commitment to the game of football and the position of quarterback.
12:04And you've seen a lot of guys go on into their second spots after having that little dose of humble
12:09pie and have amazing careers. You know, I think Chris Carter's one of those guys that you think about,
12:15and you know, with the Browns own experience, Baker Mayfield, right? Had some great moments,
12:20had some not so great moments, didn't work out here, had to bounce around a little bit,
12:23found a spot in Tampa. And I think he gained a lot of maturity. I think now he's playing great
12:29as a quarterback, you know, early in the season, one of the MVP candidates. And I think potentially
12:34Kyler Murray could have a similar trajectory. So whether they get them or not, I'm not sure,
12:39but maybe they can kind of pitch them for what they got going on with the offensive line and this
12:44great defense and this ability to, you know, kind of prove yourself on a one-year deal and then
12:47get back to making some bigger salary. So I'm not sure. I mean, I would definitely raise my
12:55expectations if he was our quarterback, whether he's going to be interested in coming here or not,
12:59if they can pitch him on it. I'm not sure about that. All right. What are your feelings right now?
13:03And it can change obviously, but number six overall.
13:07Well, I think, like I mentioned, receiver, we got to get weapons. When I look at the Browns,
13:13outside of now that the offensive line is fixed, or seemingly we've added a lot of pieces,
13:19I think receiver is your primary objective. You got to have weapons. We just did not have enough
13:24weapons. Jerry Judy, I think is a number two. I don't think he's like your bona fide number one.
13:29Um, and, and I think if, if they like a tackle a little bit more at that spot, I think
13:33a tackle
13:34would be a great selection there at number six. If, if they don't love the receiver, that would be
13:38available. Joe, uh, the wife and I've been watching a lot of Clarkson's farm, which is a British farming
13:44reality show. And I, I, I promise you, I'm not saying this cause we're on air. I've almost texted
13:48you like three times. We need the American equivalent for, uh, six, uh, for hall of fame, uh, beefs farm,
13:56because I think you guys would kill it. When are we getting the reality show about, uh, your
14:01beautiful farm? You know, you're worse than Siri because you must be listening into my conversations
14:06because we had a, uh, Hoff team dinner last night and I was sitting next to my content guy and
14:13we've
14:14hired two videographers that are moving to the farm with me and they're coming in April. One's
14:18actually coming from Germany. Um, and we are building out a docuseries. And the one thing that
14:23Chris, my contact guy said, he goes, you need to watch Clarkson's farms because that is our vision.
14:28And so we've already hired the team and we've got the plans in place. We just haven't said anything.
14:33So thanks for breaking some news here, but, uh, I'm excited about it, right? Because we're hiring
14:37a president right now for hall of fame beef. That's going to be able to take a lot of the
14:41day to day
14:41off my plate. So I can get back out there scratching my cattle on the head and going out there
14:46and
14:46making a mess like they do at Clarkson farms. And then maybe all the Browns fans get to live what
14:52life is like out on my farm. When you are farming and you're getting skid loaders stuck and you're
14:56busting tracks and you're dealing with all the fun and the joy that comes along with being a farmer and
15:02raising cattle. Joe, I'm going to offer this for you. Cause on every one of these shows, there's a
15:07funny, but dim like a worker on the farm. I will work for beef. I'm just letting you know, if
15:12you need
15:13one, if you don't have one of those guys, I am dumb. That is, it is a big surcharge there
15:18with a
15:18beef, but don't worry. I'll enjoy every second of it. Also, I'm kind of low key happy that you
15:22didn't text Joe, this whole like big idea. Cause then Joe, when you came out with this whole
15:26docu-series, Nick would have been like, I told him to do it. I told him I was first on
15:30it. I told
15:31him to do it. I still have audio. Yeah. We can't give Nick credit on this one. Uh, that would
15:36have
15:36been a tragedy. I'd have to cancel it just because of that. Joe, uh, you guys are killing it at
15:43a hall of
15:44fame beef. Uh, we saw the, the BBC right up there. That is great to see. Uh, we appreciate your
15:49time
15:50man. And it's always great catching up with you. Hey guys, I appreciate you letting me come on
15:54talking Brown's free agency. And if you go to hall of fame, beef.com right now, we've got an
15:58awesome fundraiser going on where we partnered with blood cancer United as part of our values with my
16:04company. And then also just how I've always tried to live my life. It's you want to do good and
16:09you
16:09want to do well. So $5 of every pack of our beef jerky that we sell, which is the best
16:13beef
16:14jerky on planet earth. Might I add it goes right to blood cancer United fighting leukemia and
16:20lymphoma. So trying to do good and do well at the same time, guys. Thanks so much for having me
16:24on.
16:24That is awesome. And may I say I order the apple and cheddar smokies very often more than I should
16:30admit on air, buddy. They are amazing. Joe Thomas, their hall of famer hall of fame beef.
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