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00:00The part I find hysterical is that, so I leave.
00:03Tuesday was a Deshaun Watson cannot throw a football day, okay?
00:07This is not a million days ago.
00:08This is six days ago.
00:09Tuesday, we talked about it, Nick.
00:12Deshaun, by me, I mean me and Nick, right?
00:15Nick Wilson, not Nick Padone.
00:17But I'm sure you listened.
00:18You're around.
00:18You were at practices.
00:19Yep.
00:20Deshaun was unplayable on Tuesday.
00:23You fast forward to Monday.
00:24I was there Wednesday.
00:26I thought he had a great day on Wednesday.
00:27And I thought Deshaun had a really nice day for himself.
00:30I gave him credit on the air, bounced back.
00:32And when I left, I said, he's got to do it now multiple days in a row.
00:36He's got to continue to get this going.
00:38I don't know that the white bulb all of a sudden went on.
00:41I don't know that all of a sudden Deshaun Watson has this whole thing figured out.
00:44But maybe he's heading the right direction.
00:45Maybe he is, and time will tell.
00:46I get back six days later, and really six days later from Tuesday,
00:50when everybody buried him and said the man can't play.
00:53It was, oh, guys, play the Fanta audio.
00:55My goodness.
00:56Can we play the Fanta audio?
00:57Fanta on last Tuesday made this whole proclamation of who in their right mind
01:02would have ever thought Deshaun Watson could even play football.
01:05Right.
01:05Who could have thought that?
01:07It was so obvious he couldn't play football anymore.
01:09And now you fast forward to Monday.
01:10Again, just a couple days later, and all of a sudden Deshaun Watson
01:13is the greatest football player to ever live?
01:16I think a big...
01:17What happened?
01:17I was gone for a couple days.
01:18Could I tell you what happened?
01:20It happened long before he ever left.
01:22It happened months ago, even, if you will.
01:24All of these insiders, from Schefter to Garofalo, everybody's got these rumblings
01:30that the Browns want to start Deshaun Watson.
01:32The Browns want to start Deshaun Watson.
01:34We heard locally from Mary Kay Cabot before spring practices that he's got the upper hand
01:38in the competition over Shador Sanders.
01:41Yet, every rational-thinking Browns fan that looked at this quarterback competition asked
01:46that question.
01:47Why?
01:48Why are we going to start this guy at quarterback?
01:50He hasn't been good in six years.
01:52We know that.
01:52We thought this was done.
01:53We thought it was finished.
01:54Jimmy Haslam said last year, swinging and a miss.
01:57Yet, for whatever reason, it felt like we were being primed.
02:00That they were going to seriously consider starting Deshaun Watson.
02:04And the fact that he stacked a good practice Wednesday, followed up by a couple passable
02:10practices after that, it feels like that gave the team enough of the confirmation bias
02:16that they were looking for.
02:16You'd think they were just passable.
02:18Because, again, I was gone, and I'm obviously keeping an eye on all this stuff the way that
02:21everyone does.
02:22I don't have to be in Berea to see how practices went.
02:24I get Coach Riz's notes every three seconds.
02:27And Coach will join us at 420, by the way, today.
02:29So I have an understanding.
02:31A whole PDF document that Coach sends us, by the way, after each practice.
02:35I might be the only person, but I read every word.
02:36Me too.
02:37Every bullet point.
02:38All right.
02:38So anyway, I thought it was just kind of like, I thought it made it seem, and Coach Riz
02:42didn't do this, but people made it seem as if Deshaun Watson had really grabbed this
02:46competition, ran away with it, and was just ungodly awesome.
02:52Not true?
02:54You're described more passable.
02:56Are people losing their mind over passable?
02:58If passable is what tipped the scales in the Thursday, Friday, and Saturday that I was
03:02gone, then, yeah, I got a lot of questions to ask.
03:06How do we get here?
03:07Passable is how all of a sudden Deshaun Watson overtook this thing.
03:10On Tuesday, the man couldn't throw passes.
03:12I watched it with my own eyes.
03:13He was awful on Tuesday.
03:15And again, bounced back on Wednesday.
03:16Had a nice day for himself.
03:17He was legitimately unplayable with what I saw on Tuesday.
03:21A couple passable practices later, and all of a sudden, the quarterback competition is
03:25over?
03:25The quarterback competition doesn't exist now?
03:28What's going on, Padone?
03:29It doesn't make sense.
03:30It doesn't make much sense to me either.
03:33As somebody that wanted to see Shador start, I said, I came in here with a big proclamation
03:39after the regular season ended last year.
03:41We were starting to hear some of those rumblings that they might actually consider starting Deshaun.
03:46I came in here with my big proclamation that they would never do that to Browns fans again.
03:51They would never put us through that.
03:52They're a data-driven organization, and as a data-driven organization, there is not a
03:57singular data point that points to Deshaun Watson being able to play good football ever
04:02again.
04:03It's over.
04:04It's been six years.
04:05Yet, for some reason, they're actually going to do this.
04:08Like, there was a practice that took place Saturday, Jonathan, where the head coach of
04:13the football team said, we are going to give Shador the reps with the ones, and then on
04:17the practice field, the complete opposite transpired.
04:20Right, but I feel like people are taking that.
04:22You're not taking what happened on the field.
04:23You're taking that, and you guys are running with it, and I understand why.
04:26Because Munkin told us with his own words that you'll start to know it based off of
04:31how I give out the reps, what's happening.
04:33Well, when Shador's taking reps with the ones today, shouldn't that flip-flop, and shouldn't
04:37we go back into the idea of this being an actual open competition?
04:41Like, wait, Munkin, let's play Munkin audio today.
04:43Munkin today spoke on what happened on Saturday, why he felt the need to go ahead and maybe
04:48reverse and change his course, and then get to a spot, and then today, how this has changed
04:53back around.
04:54Here we go.
04:55Shador, on Saturday, took the ones in the walk, so I anticipate him being with the
04:59ones.
04:59When I walked out, guys grabbed me and said, hey, the last couple days, we've been kind
05:04of looking at it.
05:05Shador's got a few more reps with the ones.
05:07That's all it was.
05:08I wasn't even at the moment.
05:09I was like, yeah, sure, we'll flip it, and then next week we'll go the other way.
05:12I sure as hell wasn't thinking about coming back in here and telling all you guys that
05:15I was going to change my mind, because I really don't have to.
05:18And so that's just the way, being the head coach, I can kind of do that.
05:23Ultimately, Shador's going to go today with the ones, unless on the way out, I change my
05:27mind, and then he won't.
05:28Okay.
05:29Just like any other player, in terms of how we rotate them.
05:32And the bottom line is, is the speculation, which I find kind of funny, is as long as
05:38we're still sharing reps, it's a competition.
05:41It would not make any sense.
05:43Thus, what we're doing with Spencer.
05:44Thus, we're up in Denzel's reps.
05:46I promise you, I'll tell you, when I know what we're going to be doing, you'll know.
05:50So at the end of the day, today, as far as I know, Shador's going with the ones, and then
05:55Deshaun the next day, and then Shador will get Wednesday with the pads on.
05:58Okay, so it sounds like we're back to an open competition, right?
06:01It feels like, to me, outside looking in, and you can tell me if I'm just misreading what
06:06happened over the weekend, and then when I was gone, it feels like, to me, people lost
06:09their mind over Munkin doing something that really was more on a whim than it was anything
06:14else, and the idea that, oh, you're right, yeah, Shador doesn't, he's had more opportunities
06:19than Deshaun, maybe Deshaun will end up starting this one, and then we can get right back on
06:22track on Monday.
06:23And he didn't really think much of it, and he just made that call, and it was what it was.
06:27But people then decided the race was over.
06:29People wept and decided the race was over, when in reality, the race isn't over.
06:32The race is still going on.
06:33I think a lot of people feel the way that I feel, and the way that I feel is I've
06:38got
06:38this fear deep within me that this is a fake competition, and they've had their answer
06:43picked out for months.
06:45And the answer is the guy that's owed $46 million and counts $80 million across their
06:53dead cap.
06:54But that's already been paid.
06:54They're idiots if they think the $46 million has to equate into that.
06:57It's already been paid.
06:58The point is, is that if you think the competition was rigged from the jump, I'm not here to tell
07:03you you're wrong.
07:04I've made that point myself.
07:05I don't know that it was rigged.
07:06I just think that, I think it was heavily weighted in one direction, and the other player in this
07:12competition had to be lights and light years better than Deshaun Watson, and they've both
07:18been kind of on the same playing field.
07:20And at some point, somebody does have to pull away in this competition.
07:23At some point, they do have to give more reps to whoever they believe is going to be their
07:28starting quarterback, because they play a real game in a month.
07:31Okay, but at least you're back to calling it a competition.
07:33It felt like earlier, not you, but other people were trying to make it seem as if this thing
07:37was already done.
07:38As if the race was finished.
07:40We already ran through the little line when you finish a marathon, and people are collecting
07:45their medals.
07:45Like, the game, it's already done.
07:47It's not done, guys.
07:48Well, what if he changes his mind again?
07:49This thing is still existing.
07:50But what if he changes his mind again?
07:52Like, that's the only explanation that we got, was that he was walking out to the practice
07:56field, and somebody stopped him.
07:57I don't know who, and said, maybe we get a look at Deshaun.
08:00But didn't that sound believable?
08:01And listen, I'm the first one to tell you that a head coach lies to you, and they lie to
08:04you constantly at those podiums.
08:05So my intent is always up.
08:07I think everybody's lying to us constantly.
08:10That's kind of like my job at all this, is I constantly am telling everyone, no, they're lying
08:15to you, they're lying to you, they're lying to you.
08:16And maybe my, maybe me wanting to see Shador start is what's getting in the way of this
08:20conversation.
08:21You tell me.
08:22But like, that sounded really believable.
08:24It did.
08:25It sounded like a reasonable explanation for why that happened.
08:28It's also like the, it's an evergreen excuse.
08:32What happens today?
08:33Today is supposed to be Shador's day with the ones.
08:35Right, and so if Shador starts with the ones, wouldn't you think we're back to an open
08:38competition?
08:39But what if he doesn't?
08:40Well, if he doesn't, then we have a different conversation.
08:41Then Todd's rationale is just, oh, I changed my mind again.
08:44We're still competing.
08:45If he doesn't, then everybody that's been telling me for 48 hours, this thing is cooked.
08:50You guys will be way ahead in that race.
08:52But my point is, Jonathan, now Todd has this card where maybe Shador does genuinely get
08:57his time with the ones today.
08:58He always has the card if he can lie to us whenever he wants to.
09:00But maybe now, like.
09:00We're the ones that gave him the moniker of him being this truth teller when I kept telling
09:04everybody that's not entirely true.
09:06They never have to be honest with us.
09:07Who's stopping him from playing this card Wednesday?
09:10He could change his mind Wednesday.
09:11Like, now we really don't know what's going on with this quarterback competition other
09:16than it certainly feels weighted in one guy's direction.
09:20I think what happened is I think Deshaun started to look better.
09:22And I agree with your first assessment on it.
09:25I think instead of it being like Ty goes to Shador, which is how I wanted this race to
09:29go.
09:29And how I think it should go.
09:31I do think that it is.
09:33Shador had to be that much better than Deshaun.
09:35And as of right now, this is where it goes back on Shador a little bit.
09:38But as of right now, there may be closer than everybody wants to believe.
09:42And that's part of this equation.
09:43All right.
09:44So does that mean we were back to a competition?
09:47It doesn't mean like Daryl, because Daryl says it all of a sudden we're back to a competition.
09:50But Daryl said if Shador is with the ones and everything goes through, then we're back
09:54to a competition.
09:55Well, guess who's with the ones today?
09:56Shador Sanders.
09:57And practice is underway.
09:58We have multiple people there.
09:59And they're telling us that Shador is actually throwing with the ones as recently as just
10:04a couple minutes ago.
10:05And so it does kind of feel like if Todd Monken has already decided it's Deshaun Watson, he's
10:10got a funny way of showing it, Nick.
10:12Yeah, but now this has kind of been skewed into Deshaun Watson's favor.
10:17Like Deshaun's got one more day of work than Shador.
10:21So I do, like, in order for this then to be a fair competition, truly fair in my mind,
10:28now tomorrow should go to Shador as well.
10:30And we're back on a level playing field.
10:32Well, okay.
10:33So part of their reasoning was that Shador had more throws than Deshaun did against the
10:3811-on-11s.
10:39And so that was part of the reasoning that Monken gave out.
10:41He was trying to balance it out, all things considered.
10:43Now, I don't know.
10:44That might just be Fugazi.
10:45They might just be making up the charting that they need to.
10:48And they can say whatever they want is the point.
10:50They can tell us literally anything to try to justify anything they want to.
10:54And that's what makes us hard.
10:55There's no football reference fact-checking that can be involved here.
10:58No, and my fear is that that could be exactly what's happening.
11:01They really could be making this up as they go.
11:04But why?
11:04Why did they go to Deshaun on Saturday and give him that quote-unquote advantage,
11:08whatever we want to say, have people in a tizzy to then have them off on Sunday
11:12to then have Shador back with the ones today?
11:14Like, if you really thought the race was cooked, if you thought it was done,
11:18and Todd Monken has said this himself, and again, I hate how much I'm like,
11:21yep, Todd, but refer back to what Todd had to say because I really do think he lies a lot.
11:27And I think that people just give him the benefit of the doubt because he's got this cool
11:30truth-telling Monken narrative thing about himself, a truth-telling Todd.
11:34But he can say whatever he wants, but he did say himself the idea that when it comes to these
11:42practices
11:42and it comes to Shador, like, you're going to have the opportunities.
11:45Well, now we're understanding that they're both going to start a preseason game.
11:50We don't know who's going to start against Chicago, but if they're both going to start a preseason game,
11:55you would think that should lean towards your argument that, okay, fair competition, we're back on.
12:01Sean, I'm skeptical of this entire thing, dude. I just am.
12:05Well, I've been skeptical from Jump Street, so I don't want to stray too far from, like,
12:08hey, my antenna's up to, oh, this thing seems like it's on the up and up.
12:12No, I've said repeatedly, I think the Browns have blinders when it comes to this whole entire thing.
12:18They have blinders with Deshaun Watson. I think they're now in a really smart space.
12:22I think that Andrew Barry runs this in a really smart way.
12:25I love a lot of the moves that they've done, but when it comes to Deshaun, blinders.
12:30Because as of right now, that is the worst trade in NFL history.
12:33That still lives with Andrew Barry. It still lives with Jimmy Haslam.
12:36And what's bizarre to me about it is that they're allowing that dark cloud to hover over what should be
12:44a new chapter.
12:45This should be an exciting time for Browns fans. It should be.
12:49I want to go full-blown Nick Wilson positivity, pull the pom-poms out,
12:55and just cheerlead everything down to Rocket Sanders, but I can't do it.
13:00How did the Rocket Sanders hysteria make it to you? I don't know.
13:04I was in with Lima that next morning.
13:06Oh, okay, yeah.
13:07Which of the 27 carries were your favorite?
13:11Was it the second one that he scored on or the third?
13:1417th.
13:15Okay, that one was my favorite.
13:17I just felt this entire time like this was such an important position to address when you've had two really
13:26good off seasons back to back where you've got so much young talent coming in and so many other teams
13:32that have handed out these disastrous quarterback contracts seemingly have given the Browns a blueprint to get off of this
13:39Deshaun Watson nightmare.
13:40And they're just refusing the off-ramp.
13:42It's like you had an opportunity to trade for a quarterback this offseason.
13:48You could have traded for Kyler Murray before he got cut.
13:50And then once he got cut, you could have tried to sign him.
13:53You know, everybody did this thing with Malik Willis.
13:55Daryl and I came to blows so many Sundays over Malik Willis.
14:00Why would he want to come to Cleveland?
14:01Miami's a better setup for him.
14:03Well, look at the offenses now.
14:05Miami stinks.
14:06Name a Dolphins receiver right now.
14:08Yeah, Miami stinks.
14:09It's impossible.
14:10So, like, they could have addressed this during the offseason.
14:13They chose not to because they were priming us for this Watson versus Sanders quarterback competition.
14:19And to me, it feels like a weighted competition in the favor of Watson.
14:24I agree that it does feel – hold on.
14:27I don't agree that it feels weighted towards Watson necessarily.
14:29I do agree with the idea that your first sentiment that Chador is going to clearly have to do a
14:33lot more work than we thought initially.
14:35I just – nothing about Saturday was the tip.
14:38Now, think about Saturday for me.
14:40I – again, I am waiting and almost begging the Browns to give me signs that really makes it feel
14:48like it's unfair or really makes it feel like this is not on the up-and-up
14:51and that this competition has not gone the right way or it's slanted or anything in between.
14:57Saturday just wasn't one of those calls for me.
14:59It just – it just wasn't.
15:00I'd love to tell you that it was and that the whole thing is Fugazi and the whole thing is
15:04rigged.
15:05And my goodness, I was right about how the Browns think about this the entire time.
15:09Saturday just wasn't it for me.
15:10So, it wasn't it for me either.
15:11But it's –
15:11And especially now that he's back playing with the ones today.
15:13It's a layer in it, though.
15:15Saturday's a layer in it for me.
15:16We never got an answer all the way back in June, mandatory minicamp.
15:21It was Ashley Bastock, who I know joins you guys every week, asked Deshaun the question straight up.
15:26Why did you never lose the faith that you would start for this organization again?
15:31And he said it was based on internal conversations.
15:34What internal conversations did he have that lead him to believe that he'd get another opportunity to start for this
15:41team?
15:42And then you pair that with what we saw Saturday, which was the first time in the competition where the
15:49rotation did change.
15:50Really, it was Thursday.
15:51Thursday was really the watershed day in this entire thing when we look back at it because that was Sanders'
15:57day with the ones.
15:58And it was, really, for a bulk of the entire practice.
16:01But there were a few plays where Watson rotated in with the starters.
16:05And Gabriel got a huge dose of work on Thursday as well, which was a big...
16:11It sounds like, by the way, he's getting a lot of work in today, too.
16:13It sounds like, especially with the number twos right now, he's getting a lot of work.
16:16So they're getting Watson a lot of reps with the ones.
16:19I know, but today it seems like Shador is getting a lot of work with the ones.
16:22Dylan's getting a lot of work with the twos.
16:23And now the presumed starter is where in this?
16:27So we know Watson's not going anywhere because they've paid him all the money already.
16:31And the contract says you can't get rid of him.
16:33But now it feels like Gabriel's quick-emerging in this.
16:37And that's what, as somebody that wants to see Shador play this season,
16:42because he remains the best lottery ticket out of this hell that they've created for themselves.
16:48It feels like we're not going to get it, though.
16:50I don't know why.
16:51Just because it feels like the organization wants to start the problem.
16:55And now we're seeing so much Dylan Gabriel.
16:57But everyone's going off of feels, though.
16:58But I just gave you two elements of why I feel that way.
17:01No, but I need everybody to go take a plane trip to Kansas City like I did for a couple
17:06days
17:06and then come back in and then realize just how insane the past 48 hours have been for people.
17:11And it's not as if, again, I'm still on Twitter when I'm on vacation,
17:15and I'm still checking things, and I'm still doing things.
17:17And I understand it.
17:19But I felt like I came back, and it was like a bizarro world had occurred,
17:23as if something completely drastic had changed from last Tuesday
17:27when everybody was in agreement the man cannot play football.
17:30Like, what changed in such a massive way?
17:32You know, the only thing that changed was Munkin's ordering of a situation on Saturday
17:36that he has since rectified by today's actions, where Shador is with the one,
17:40Dylan is doing a lot of work with the twos, and Deshaun is kind of on the outside end.
17:44Like, I don't even think it's as crazy to suggest, as some Shador fans have,
17:48that maybe something was not 100% with Shador, and that's why things changed on Saturday.
17:53I don't know what that would be. I don't know if that's a dead arm situation.
17:56I don't know if that's a flu. I don't know.
17:59But there's a lot of this stuff that we're just not privy to.
18:01And as much as I love playing the game, like, just take a step back
18:05and think about how crazy this situation has gotten for a lot of people
18:09and how everyone has jumped to these conclusions, these massive conclusions,
18:13over Munkin or someone changing their mind a half hour later, which he has since rectified.
18:19I love that the Shador fans, like the Shador army, is going out with the message of let it play
18:24out.
18:24Because that's what I do, like, when I'm backed into a corner
18:27and I realize things aren't going my way, is I just tell myself, let it play out.
18:32It's all you really can do is just let it play out,
18:34and you'll see if you get through to the other side of it.
18:37So I do love that that has been, like, the message from the Sanders side,
18:40is we've unfortunately relegated ourselves to just letting it play out.
18:45I mean, what were you saying last Tuesday, though?
18:47Were you saying anything different last Tuesday?
18:49Last Tuesday, I was saying what everybody was saying,
18:52that Deshaun doesn't look like he can play,
18:54and that Shador, unfortunately, hasn't separated himself enough
18:58because they were continuing to rotate the quarterbacks.
19:00But when you said Deshaun couldn't play,
19:02you had to have then thought that Shador had the upper hand.
19:04In six days now, you've completely changed that?
19:07Well, no, no, no, no.
19:08I think from still what I've seen with my two eyes,
19:12from a pure throwing the football standpoint,
19:14I still think Shador should have the upper hand.
19:17But then I sat here for four hours yesterday with Daryl
19:20and heard him explain to me.
19:22That's not good for anybody, by the way,
19:23sitting for four hours with Daryl.
19:25That's bad.
19:25Well, and then in painstaking fashion,
19:27we played every single bit of sound from Mike.
19:29What's the quarterback's last name?
19:31Quarterback coach, Mike Behakin, Behakin.
19:34We played every single sound bite from him,
19:38explaining all the pre-snap stuff.
19:39Yeah, I think you guys got a little too in the weeds.
19:41And that's the issue with Shador right now,
19:43it was the pre-snap stuff.
19:44A little too in the weeds.
19:45So yeah, people are losing their round.
19:46I can't believe, during LeBron one.
19:48How am I the voice of reason on this?
19:50Jonathan, during the height of LeBron one.
19:51How am I the sane one?
19:52I'm never the sane one.
19:53I'm never the one that's like,
19:54guys, you're overreacting.
19:55I'm always like, yes, overreact more.
19:58Let's do that.
19:58How am I the one that's like,
19:59you guys have washed your mind in 24 hours?
20:02Well, because we have.
20:03You just said you guys are dissecting a quarterback coach
20:05that you don't even know his name.
20:07What are we doing?
20:08This is what we're left to do.
20:10We have two.
20:10This is why quarterback competitions do not work.
20:14When you have two quarterbacks,
20:15you don't have a quarterback.
20:17We're going to spend so much time,
20:19the whole rest of the summer,
20:21debating these two options that the Browns have
20:24in Watson and Sanders.
20:26And you know what we're going to be debating in April?
20:29April 1st?
20:30Which quarterback the Browns should draft in the first round of the draft?
20:33At least you're saying it's debating
20:34because it felt like 24 hours ago for a lot of people,
20:37the debate had been over.
20:40It was called.
20:40It was done.
20:41We got to a spot where there's a lot of people
20:43on this station alone that are like,
20:44all right, fine.
20:45I've made peace with the idea that it's Deshaun for week one
20:48and that's just what it is.
20:50And it's like, guys, no.
20:51That's not where this is at all.
20:53At least you're back to the spot where we can debate
20:54and have conversations about it.
20:55Because I really don't think Munkin's given us anything
20:57to believe that Deshaun Watson has this massive
21:00advantage or massive upper hand in this.
21:02If you want to believe it's because
21:03he was always going to be the guy,
21:06then all right, we can have that conversation a month ago
21:08the same way we could have it today.
21:09There's nothing that happened in the last four days
21:11that tells me that Deshaun Watson has this massive advantage
21:14right now, especially since Shador's out there
21:16with the ones and he's having a day today.
21:18That's just how I see it.
21:192-1-6-4-7-4-0-92.
21:21But again, I guess, you know,
21:23just be the calm and rational guy on the show today, Nick.
21:26And that's not you anyway, in any sort of way.
21:28What I like about you is that you will go to that deep end.
21:32And I love that about you because not many people will.
21:35I also go to that deep end and I'm the one being like,
21:38I think everyone's overreading the hell out of this,
21:40which is never a thing that's ever come out of my mouth
21:43in doing a sports radio show
21:44because I will dive into just about every nook and cranny
21:47of a situation.
21:48Must have been the Kansas City heat or something though.
21:50I'm not sure.
21:50I'm not sure.
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