- 6 months ago
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00:00What's infuriating me about the Kyler Murray thing is, historically, these are the kind
00:05of things that they've been all over, and that they should be all over, given their
00:09situation.
00:10And so their inability to just be like, yeah, let's go at least call Kyler and see what
00:15that's like, at least to this point.
00:16We haven't heard any reports.
00:18Yeah, yeah.
00:18It annoys me.
00:19It's like, wait, wait, wait, but the RG3 thing.
00:21This is a better idea than the RG3.
00:23This is a much better idea than Kenny Pickett a year ago.
00:27Oh, by a lot.
00:28It's not even a competition to me.
00:29That's where there's this weird thing with the Browns where it's like, they only make
00:34the, I don't want to say mistakes, they only make the decisions, and everyone goes, well,
00:38I can see it, and then they don't work out, and then everyone goes afterwards like, well,
00:44they tried, and it's like, but there's actually a good, there's like a thing that makes sense
00:50out there in Kyler Murray that makes more sense in anything you've done since Deshaun Watson
00:54or Baker Mayfield.
00:54Okay, but this also falls in lines with the exact Ty Simpson convo we were just having.
00:58Is that like, they are the due diligence, I don't know, do they get like a gold medal
01:02in that sport?
01:03Like they, like all they love to do is just tell people that they've done the due diligence.
01:07They've, they've worked out this person.
01:08They called this team about this while never really accomplishing anything.
01:12And so part of the reason why you'd have Ty Simpson in is the idea that I think they
01:16just want to check it off their box of like, oh yeah, yeah, we, no, we did that.
01:19We, we went down that road.
01:20We, we did that.
01:21And it's infuriating.
01:22I don't think the due diligence is infuriating.
01:25The fact that I could see the Browns taking Ty Simpson with the sixth pick is what infuriates
01:29me.
01:29I just have a hard time seeing it actually happening.
01:32So, cause here's the thing.
01:33Most of the time I would say, well, listen, they're thinking about 2027, this, that, and
01:39the other.
01:39But I just, we're back to square one with where we are.
01:42Like even it, like they're, they're pushing this to Sean stuff in a way that is just every
01:47time I see someone else pick up the baton and report something or comment on something
01:52with the Sean Watson as somebody that might be able to start week one, it's just, it screams
01:57of man, you just can't read the room, right?
02:01Like as logical as you are, somehow there's some bit of understanding of what this should
02:07be.
02:07And like Jory Epstein, and we didn't get to this yesterday because, you know, Miles Garrett
02:11had a speeding ticket, but Jory Epstein yesterday putting out the, and this is the exact statement
02:16growing undercurrent of belief to Sean Watson could seriously compete to start week one.
02:22Yeah.
02:23Has there ever been an Andrew Barry, Cleveland Browns press release kind of statement before?
02:27And again, that's her, her read on the situation.
02:29She used undercurrent.
02:30It feels like, it feels like Andrew said, Hey, I really would like you to know that there's
02:35a growing undercurrent of belief to Sean Watson could seriously complete.
02:38What does that statement even mean?
02:40I mean, it just feels like, I think, I think her read on it is that it wouldn't be crazy
02:46if the Browns missed out all through free agency and all through the draft and ended up
02:51with the idea that Deshaun is going to be the person that's going to try to push the
02:54door.
02:55And that's their answer.
02:55But what changed?
02:56Was it the workout video?
02:57No, nothing changed.
02:58I just, I feel like.
02:59I know Munkin might be more online than Kevin Stefanski.
03:02Is he just watching Deshaun workout videos and thinking to himself, by golly, I can do this?
03:06I don't think that's it.
03:07I wonder if we, this goes back to that transition, your comment that Albert made, if this was
03:11always the plan, then they just steady the course.
03:13Like I argued this last year at certain times, the idea that like, if it's, if they're, if
03:17their big plan was to just win five games last year, you all told them that they sucked
03:21at it in their eyes, they were knocking it out of the park.
03:24Yeah.
03:24But I think the problem with the Browns continues to be that they kind of just think everything's
03:29going to go the way they think it's going to go.
03:30And they don't plan for, Hey, what if things that we don't want to have happen happens?
03:35And in this case, what you don't want to have happen is Deshaun plays just well enough
03:39that one, you cost yourself a, you're, you're, you're the, the 15th pick or the 17th pick,
03:45whatever.
03:45Yeah.
03:46Or two, that you have to seriously consider giving that guy any more money to be a part
03:50of this quarterback conversation any further.
03:52Right.
03:53And that's, but here, and by the way, do you know why I say that he goes, this is actually
03:57ties right into the high Simpson thing there.
03:59Why it annoys me is because the Browns think, Oh, well, he'll go out there and maybe he'll
04:03tear his ACL or maybe he'll be on, maybe the shoulder won't be enough.
04:06And then we'll be right where we want to be.
04:08And then because it's them, because they're so their verticals are so spot on that inevitably
04:14it ends up where their ass doesn't want to be every single year.
04:19That's why it makes sense.
04:20They would take some Ty Simpson.
04:21Cause it doesn't make sense.
04:23Cause you should be in on 2027.
04:25That might be the best case you have for it happening is that nobody thinks it makes
04:29sense.
04:29I can't find a world where it makes sense to me with the 2027 draft around the corner,
04:33why you would take Ty Simpson.
04:35And so maybe they would do it because of that.
04:36Cause oftentimes they just, they just don't think right in these scenarios or they intend
04:41the best you got to go a specific way.
04:43And I think they intend if they start to Sean to just be as bad as you can next year,
04:48and because they're bad at their, no, they're not bad at their intentions because they,
04:52they can't land the plane on any decision going the way they actually want it to go.
04:57It would make sense that this dude plays just well enough to have to pay him $25 million
05:01again for 2027.
05:03I think they've seen him for three straight years, get injured.
05:04I really, if that was the thought process, put his ass on the field.
05:07If that was the thought, well, again, if they, if what they're trying to accomplish is
05:10simple, if what they're trying to accomplish is a transition year where you set yourself up
05:13for the draft pick, then they know that it'll accomplish that.
05:17Bring in, bring in slap-ass Richardson.
05:19That makes as much sense as damn Deshaun Watson.
05:22If anything, well, and that would be part of the equation too.
05:24You could certainly go down that road.
05:26Like the balancing act they've been trying to pull off, at least I feel they've been
05:29trying to pull off is you have to make it seem as if we're trying while not accomplishing
05:33any sort of goal that the common fan would want.
05:36You have to seem like you're trying to seem like you, you're really giving it the old
05:39college try and where they, where they, at least if, if my read on this has been
05:43correct and it's been so far for a couple of years now, it has been there.
05:47The actual goal is just to continue to get top draft picks and then rebuild and rebuild
05:50and rebuild until with this one magnificent off season that they're going to eventually
05:54have.
05:55Well, then they, they accomplished that with Deshaun Watson.
05:57No, no, no, no.
05:57It's because for some accomplish that with people like Albert Breer and Jory Epstein,
06:01they're like, Oh yeah.
06:02Yeah.
06:02That is the best quarterback in your room.
06:03Go for it.
06:04And then it's justified there.
06:05And then, Oh no, it didn't work once again, which we can see coming from a mile away.
06:09Cause Deshaun, it's got nothing left.
06:11It's not even about, it's not about anything other than you have no reason.
06:16There's nothing you've seen in the last three years, uh, that, that makes you think Deshaun's
06:20going to figure it out.
06:21There's only downside with playing Deshaun Watson.
06:24And it seems all too cute.
06:27All too.
06:28Don't you know, we know football.
06:29When I have mountains of evidence to suggest recently, you don't maybe know as much football
06:34as you think you can do this in a myriad of ways.
06:37If you want the room of suck, right with Anthony Richardson, go get your room of suck.
06:42You can, but you, there's no plausible reason that we should be talking about Deshaun Watson
06:48and this organization telling anyone that there's a growing undercurrent of belief to
06:53Deshaun Watson could seriously compete to start in week one.
06:56I'm sorry.
06:56Can we go back to where I can fire Andrew Barry?
06:59Cause the level of hubris, the level of hubris, the level of, like at some point, stop spitting
07:06in Browns fans faces.
07:08I would like, if you did that, you can lose, lose any way you want.
07:12Not this one.
07:13All right.
07:14Cause God help you.
07:15If you win just enough this way and we're going to have another, are we paying Deshaun
07:19Watson?
07:20He's not going to win.
07:21You know he's not going to win.
07:21There is an exhaustible amount of goodwill in Cleveland for the Cleveland Browns.
07:26Deshaun's not going to win.
07:26And we all know it.
07:27They know it too.
07:28That's the, that's the whole thing about this.
07:30They know it.
07:30They know it too.
07:31But yes, you can do this with anyone.
07:33You can do it with Richardson.
07:34You can do it with Shador.
07:35You can do it with Dylan Gabriel's little ass.
07:37You can do it with any quarterback out there that can get you to three wins.
07:41You just don't have to do it with Deshaun other than, Hey, we paid him a bunch of
07:46money once.
07:47Who gives a rat's ass?
07:48It's a sunk cost.
07:50Don't open up that door.
07:52See the logic for once, please.
07:55All right.
07:55Well, they haven't made any decisions yet.
07:57All right.
07:57Well, but there's a growing undercurrent.
07:59We're going to have to see how this plays out here.
08:00There's a growing, no, I'm not doing that.
08:01We're going to have to see how this one plays out.
08:02I'm not doing that.
08:02You can do this.
08:03And if, by the way, if Deshaun, if Deshaun does end up starting week one, my read on
08:07it's going to be very simple.
08:08It'll be the idea that they were too scared that your door would actually win him too many
08:12games.
08:12You can do this.
08:14Deshaun will accomplish whatever they need to accomplish in not winning games.
08:16You can do this any which way you want, but that.
08:18I will give you carte blanche to do all the stupid.
08:21So bring back Kenny Pickett because he would have won the job if he was only healthy last
08:25year and didn't completely suck.
08:27But I'll give you carte blanche to bring in any slap ass you want.
08:30Johnny Manziel, bring in a nickel bag and get that little bastard back here, right?
08:35It's just in time for St. Paddy's Day.
08:36It's basically what they're doing.
08:37They're just not being vocal about it, which is the same thing they've done for years.
08:40They just, they, they do this almost in the shadows and then fans right before the season
08:44gets underway, get their hopes up and their dreams up and all these high expectations.
08:48And now for two years straight, we've watched them achieve basically nothing.
08:52I just feel like the Browns probably should be too smart for this, but sometimes they're
08:56so smart that they get real cute and then things happen that are really annoying and
09:01really quarrelsome.
09:02And that feels like the kind of thing we're setting up for this year.
09:05I mean, I just, I think there's going to be enough people out there that think the way
09:07the jury thinks.
09:08If it's me, it's pretty simple.
09:09Chador Sanders, QB one, Deshaun Watson, your QB two.
09:13And then I would have gotten rid of Dylan Gabriel and then you draft a quarterback in round
09:16three, round four, and you go from there.
09:18Right.
09:18But I, they just, they might not see it that way.
09:20And if it's an open competition, then good luck.
09:23If you start Deshaun, he's just not going to stay healthy.
09:26I just, what other, what other team, what other front office in football would actually
09:32sell Deshaun Watson after 17, no, sorry, 19 games in three years and a, oh gosh, what's
09:42the actual, uh, what is it?
09:44A 20, no, 30, 38 QBR in three seasons.
09:49Oh, he's been awful.
09:49There's no justifying it.
09:50There's absolutely zero justifying it.
09:52It's just, he's a body on the roster that enough people can start to convince themselves
09:56after last year and being removed that maybe it's not that bad, but I'm not one of those
10:00people.
10:00You're not one of those people.
10:01And that's all right.
10:02I just, at some point it is, it is insulting to the intelligence of Browns fans to put
10:08these reports out there.
10:09And I know like, I guys, we're Jory and other people are hearing things from the Browns
10:15organization.
10:16So this isn't like, there's no, like these are like Jory didn't dream this one up by
10:21herself.
10:22Albert Breer, when he's come on with us, didn't just say to himself, oh, I think this is true.
10:27This is what the Browns are telling people.
10:29And I understand, listen, we have talked about the sliding scales of good quarterback options
10:36and the fact that there isn't a great quarterback option, right?
10:39So I can understand that like, if you're the Browns and you go, all right, Deshaun Watson,
10:46Shador Sanders, and Anthony Richardson, how far does that get us?
10:52This season is likely if you don't do a damn thing to that quarterback room.
10:56And if you kind of take a pass it free agency and wait for just opportunities that are financially
11:02affordable.
11:03And you really, you have another off season closer to last off season than what we're traditionally
11:08used to.
11:09Right.
11:09You're already driving this thing towards suck.
11:13You don't need for it to be bad potentially.
11:16And then unlikable.
11:19You don't, you don't need that.
11:21That's the combo.
11:22I think that'll turn a lot of people off, obviously, because I do think there's an intention
11:26there.
11:26If this is how this goes down, that there are just okay being bad.
11:29They're just there.
11:30They've accepted that they want to go for 20, 27.
11:32And this is just part of their, their big grandiose plan that is yet to pay off.
11:36It's the being unlikable part of it that I think I just find so intriguing because it
11:40feels like they constantly take the route of, uh, gave, we will swerve into being unlikable.
11:44And in this instance, it's really not that hard.
11:46It throws your door out there.
11:47If something works out, then great.
11:49If it doesn't, then okay, you stink and you're there for 20, 27, you don't have to bother
11:53with Deshaun.
11:53Yeah.
11:54And I just, I just very justified.
11:55There's just no point that I, and it's not even about what Deshaun was accused of anymore.
11:59It's about what has been unlikable about this organization.
12:02The hubris that it took to make the move from Baker to Deshaun and then the inability
12:07to stick the landing.
12:08It is all of those things together.
12:10It is, it is, it is the, the now five or now four years, I guess we should say four
12:15years of just a weight, an albatross around the Browns organization.
12:20No, not even that.
12:21Cause I don't think they care.
12:23I mean, I know they care because it affects their jobs and affects other things.
12:27I don't think they care like Browns fans do.
12:29Browns fans live this night and damn day and they have been embarrassed.
12:34They have been criticized.
12:36They have been pecked upon by the national media because of decisions they didn't make.
12:41And then going into 2026, the fifth year of this Deshaun debacle to have the balls to put
12:48Deshaun on the field is just, I'm sorry.
12:51Like at some point, somebody has to put up the stop sign and say, no, you do not have
12:55permission on behalf of Browns fans.
12:58You don't have, but this might be why we have Munkin here today.
13:00Uh, we have them because you couldn't do that to Stefanski again, because there was no way
13:04Stefanski was going to be able to go through with the idea of like, oh yeah, Deshaun Watson.
13:08I can get something out of that.
13:10Like, like a part of the reason why I think Munkin might be here is the idea.
13:13First off, they wanted a fresh set of eyes and they wanted new people around Deshaun,
13:17but also, uh, like this wouldn't be somebody that they could just turn around and say,
13:21no, no, no, but wait, he can do something.
13:24I know he can do something.
13:25And the guy would be like, we have three years of evidence.
13:27I can't get anything out of this guy because that's not how Munkin's going to react.
13:30Munkin's going to react and look at it like a challenge.
13:32I would argue to Todd Munkin, you can't do this for Todd Munkin.
13:35I mean, that's an argument I would make too, but throwing that on a, on a rookie head coach,
13:40who might, this might be his only chance to do this.
13:43Munkin right now, he's going back to the Stetson Bennett days in his head.
13:45He's like, I can get anybody to work.
13:47I can, I can do this.
13:48I, there's a part of me that believes that Munkin just thinks, give me anybody and I'll,
13:51I'll be able to muster something out of them.
13:53And I think that might be some of the appeal that they had with Munkin.
13:562-1-6-4-7-4-0-0-9-2.
13:58How much of a chance do you give Deshaun Watson to start week one?
14:01Larry in Cleveland, welcome to the show.
14:03Yeah.
14:04How you doing?
14:04Doing all right, what you got for us?
14:07Yeah, I just want to say this.
14:08Why you guys all hell-bent thinking Deshaun is not better than Shador?
14:13Shador haven't proved.
14:13No, he's not.
14:14Deshaun sucks.
14:15Come on, what are we doing here?
14:16No, no, listen.
14:17Where is Shador done?
14:20Deshaun can't stay healthy, and when he's on the field, he stinks.
14:23Like, it doesn't matter.
14:24It's not about Shador at this point.
14:26It's a process of elimination.
14:27I would put any warm body over Deshaun at this point.
14:31I think you guys got a personal thing with him.
14:33Wait, no, hold on.
14:34Hold on.
14:34No, no, no, no, no.
14:35We don't have a personal thing with Deshaun.
14:37We watched Deshaun for three, and then the last year he didn't even play.
14:41Stink up the joint, wasting all of our time.
14:43I would argue that if it's not personal, we have a problem.
14:47Like, he's wasted so much of our time, we should have a personal problem with Deshaun
14:51at this point.
14:52But my thing is this.
14:53Remember when the Browns played the Bengals?
14:56Shador can score a touchdown.
14:59Okay.
15:00Larry, I don't really understand your point.
15:02It sounds like you've got a problem with Shador more than you have a strike for Deshaun.
15:06Why are you so behind Deshaun?
15:08I'm so confused by this.
15:09Help me out, Larry.
15:10Because he has to be better than what they have on the bench.
15:14No, he doesn't.
15:15No, he's definitively proven, Larry.
15:17This is year five of Deshaun in a Browns uniform.
15:20We've gotten nothing.
15:21Diddly squat out of it.
15:22Except wasting people's time.
15:25You guys say, Anthony, what's his name?
15:27Richards?
15:28That guy is horrible.
15:29Richardson.
15:30Yeah, that's the point.
15:31We agree that he's horrible.
15:32We agree that he's awful.
15:33And I would take as horrible as I think he is, and he might not even be able to see
15:36100%
15:36at this point, I would still take him over Deshaun Watson.
15:39I would take just about anybody over Deshaun Watson.
15:43Wow, you guys are really out there.
15:45Okay.
15:46We're not out there.
15:46No, I actually think you're out there, Larry.
15:48How are we out there?
15:49I will say, if we get into the consensus of opinions on how Browns fans feel about Deshaun
15:53Watson, I think we're closer to the center of that mass.
15:56I just don't know how much evidence you need.
15:57How much more do you need?
15:59Do you need a seventh year, Larry?
16:01Do you need a tenth year?
16:02This is like Andrew Barry's a GM.
16:04How many years can we give you?
16:05Do you see why I get frustrated with the idea of Deshaun versus Shador and why I think it's
16:10such an insincere point for the Browns to make, whereas Shador versus anyone feels like
16:16a sincere conversation.
16:17You're not speaking to yourself here in this one.
16:19I'm right there with you.
16:20We're lockstep on the process of it should be Shador over Deshaun, and that shouldn't
16:24even be a question.
16:25I'm trying to make the argument that if it is Deshaun, I feel like then they're trying
16:30to tell you in so many ways.
16:31They don't think they're going to do anything in 2026.
16:33They don't even want to attempt to accomplish anything in 2026 because they know he sucks
16:36or he's going to get injured, and they're just letting this thing spiral for 2027.
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