00:04I think we'll get more into this
00:06in the podcast later today.
00:0892.3 TheFan.com
00:10The Free Odyssey.
00:10I'm the Ken Carman Show
00:11with Anthony Lima Banner.
00:12It's brought to you by
00:13Extend Technologies.
00:16Let me just say one thing
00:17about the attendance issue.
00:19I think Doug is 100% right
00:21when he talks about...
00:21Well, I think it's one of the reasons
00:23he's 100% right.
00:24I do think there's another part to it.
00:26When Doug's like,
00:27hey, like,
00:28Oklahoma's used to kicking ass
00:29and taking names
00:30and now you're in a free market system
00:34and a team like Texas Tech
00:35is able to just buy the players
00:37that used to go to Oklahoma.
00:39And now you're...
00:40Is Oklahoma 4-4, Owen?
00:42I think so.
00:44Okay.
00:44It's more than just the players.
00:45Yeah.
00:47Switching conference has a lot to do.
00:48I'm not absolving Venables.
00:50I'm not absolving him.
00:51I know you're not a big fan
00:52and I would agree.
00:53I think he's a defensive coordinator
00:54and not a head coach.
00:59But I think that he's right
01:01where it's like,
01:02hey, when you have teams
01:03that are on their way up,
01:04they're starting to pack it in.
01:06I mean, I know that what?
01:07UMass has lost four in a row
01:08since their 4-0 start,
01:09if I'm not mistaken.
01:10But, you know,
01:11they had a sold-out stadium
01:12and that was a really cool thing.
01:13And that's not a small building.
01:15It's not the biggest,
01:15but it's not a small one.
01:17And that's a really cool thing.
01:18But like a place like Oklahoma,
01:20I got to tell you,
01:21Penn State,
01:21that's another one.
01:22They built that brand new wing
01:23over there on the other side
01:24and there's not a lot of people there
01:27because there's also price
01:29that affects this.
01:29You got to be able
01:30to afford the players.
01:31And how do they pass on that price?
01:33You can't,
01:34boosters aren't going to give you
01:35everything all the time.
01:36So they pass it off
01:37and it's like,
01:37well, wait a minute.
01:38If my team is in a rebuilding year
01:41or my team's at the end of a run
01:42with a coach that I want fired,
01:44am I going to pay $347
01:46to sit in the upper deck?
01:48Am I really going to do that?
01:49No.
01:50So parity,
01:51we always say parity's great.
01:53I think we don't realize
01:54what we're saying.
01:55I think we all want to say it's great.
01:56It's really not
01:57when it comes down
01:57to the bottom line,
01:59especially in a sport
01:59like college football.
02:00Like,
02:02who's good?
02:03Doug's right.
02:04Maybe by the end of this weekend
02:06we'll find out Miami's good.
02:08Maybe.
02:09But like Miami's,
02:10and that'd be great
02:11for college football
02:11because Miami's a team
02:12you either love them
02:13or you hate them.
02:13There's no third direction.
02:14Nobody just is okay with Miami.
02:16I do think they're good.
02:17All right.
02:17And if they're good,
02:18that's great.
02:18They think their receiver's better than,
02:19they think Malachi Tony's better
02:21than Jeremiah Smith.
02:22Yes,
02:22sure as hell they do.
02:23He's been awesome.
02:24As long as there's been
02:25really,
02:25really great Ohio State wide receivers,
02:27there's always been some truthers out there
02:29that have said,
02:30oh no,
02:31our wide receiver is better
02:32than this guy from Ohio State.
02:34Ever since they've really got,
02:34they've really got cooking
02:36with wide receivers
02:36over the last decade.
02:37There's always been
02:38some weird argument about that.
02:40But when you have a lot of,
02:43I look at it a lot more like,
02:44when you go over to the stadium,
02:46when you go to a Browns game,
02:48if the Browns are cooking
02:49and really good
02:49and people are excited
02:50about the young guys,
02:52there were a lot of people
02:53in that football stadium
02:54back on two Sundays ago
02:55against Baltimore.
02:56They wanted to see
02:57if there was a chance.
02:57They wanted to believe.
02:58A lot of people in that stadium,
03:00the place was rocking
03:00when they won.
03:02But we've seen it
03:03on the other side.
03:04Now you're having to,
03:04you're having to earn
03:06these crowds again.
03:08And I don't,
03:08well,
03:09I say again,
03:10probably for the first time
03:10in a hundred years,
03:11you're having to earn
03:12these crowds
03:13because before it was tradition
03:15and now you've made it mercenary
03:16just like it is in the NFL
03:18or even worse.
03:19We're like,
03:19Hey,
03:19I can sign a guy
03:20to a three-year contract.
03:21He ain't going nowhere.
03:22Can't do that in college football.
03:23And I think that
03:24that takes some of it away.
03:25I think that takes
03:26some of the fan interest away.
03:28And I don't think
03:29that any of this
03:29is over with yet.
03:30And I'll speak to it more
03:31in the,
03:31in the,
03:32in the pod,
03:33but man,
03:33you look around the league
03:34and everybody's talking
03:35about attendance,
03:35this and attendance at,
03:36there's not many people there.
03:37You've made it more expensive.
03:39And while you've made it
03:40more expensive,
03:40you've given less of a buy-in
03:42to the players that you have.
03:43Like I'm serious.
03:45If I was at Mississippi,
03:45if I were a Mississippi State fan
03:48thinking about buying in,
03:50is anybody going to buy
03:51a Camario Taylor jersey?
03:53I know he's hurt,
03:55but does,
03:55how many people out there
03:56are thinking,
03:56well,
03:57he's going to end up
03:57at Ole Miss
03:57or he's going to end up
03:58somewhere else?
03:59I mean,
03:59Will Howard won
04:00a national championship
04:01at Ohio State
04:02in his one year.
04:03How many Will Howard jerseys
04:05are there?
04:05I don't see any.
04:06At Ohio State.
04:07I'm sure there's a few.
04:08Think about how crazy that is.
04:09I bet you there's a bunch
04:10of Buckeye fans
04:11who don't remember
04:11who the quarterback was.
04:13If you did,
04:14instead of two-second trivia,
04:15you did five seconds
04:16or six seconds,
04:18I bet you there
04:19people would be like,
04:19what was his name?
04:21Because what indelible mark
04:23did Will Howard leave?
04:24Remember,
04:24he lost to Michigan
04:26that year.
04:27What did you say,
04:28Owen?
04:28I'm sorry.
04:28How many would say
04:29Kyle McCourt?
04:30I bet more than one,
04:32less than 50.
04:33And they go,
04:33oh yeah,
04:34he went to Syracuse.
04:35Yeah,
04:35that's what they would do.
04:36So I do think
04:38that that is a bit
04:38of a problem.
04:40And I think one way
04:41to keep it is
04:42you're going to have,
04:42I don't know how you do it
04:44without violating Title IX,
04:45I got to say that,
04:46but it's like,
04:46man,
04:47if you're a sport
04:48revenue driver,
04:49like if you can prove
04:50the sport that you have
04:51as a net loss
04:53some way,
04:53somehow,
04:54maybe you could keep it
04:55amateur,
04:55but you know that's not
04:56going to happen
04:57in college football.
04:58So you're going to have
04:59to be able to make them
05:00some sort of an employee
05:01with some sort of a contract
05:02to be able to sign them
05:03to keep them there.
05:03Because I also think
05:04it's making for a worse
05:05product in the NFL.
05:07You're going place to place,
05:08no development,
05:09and now we're just betting
05:10more on raw talent
05:11than we ever have before.
05:12And that's just awful.
05:15And that's why I think
05:16you're seeing guys
05:16who are getting second chances
05:18in places and starting
05:19to develop a little bit better.
05:21I think the clip
05:23has gone on on social media,
05:24and I've seen a lot
05:25of reaction to it.
05:26I don't think that people
05:27are taking the,
05:28well,
05:29we have a very interesting
05:30situation here in Cleveland
05:32where either people
05:33love the quarterback,
05:35the two quarterbacks
05:35that we talk about the most,
05:36Deshaun Watson
05:37and Shredor Sanders.
05:38People either love them
05:39to an unrealistic degree
05:40or they hate them
05:41to an unrealistic degree.
05:42There is no judging.
05:45And I brought up
05:46how many quarterbacks
05:47are winning that game
05:48on Sunday.
05:49And I said,
05:49I think a lot of people
05:50are kind of stuck
05:51in the past.
05:52They want this Browns
05:53football team
05:53to lose with Deshaun Watson.
05:55They don't want Deshaun Watson.
05:57I'm getting it here
05:57on social media.
05:58There is a vocal minority
06:00that they don't like this.
06:01They don't want him
06:02to do well.
06:03They think that this is fake
06:04and they don't want
06:05to be fooled again.
06:06And to some level,
06:07I can kind of see
06:08where you're at on that
06:09because you think
06:11left to their own devices,
06:12they're going to make
06:13some huge five-year
06:14investment again
06:15and we're going to continue
06:16to be in Browns prison.
06:17I coined the phrase,
06:17I can't rip people
06:18for thinking that way.
06:20But I also think
06:21that the game has changed
06:22since they went
06:22and they got Deshaun Watson.
06:23Before it was,
06:24get your franchise quarterback
06:25and you can sleep easy
06:26for the next 15 years.
06:29Lamar Jackson hasn't been
06:30in the league that long, guys.
06:32And now we're talking
06:32about him no longer
06:33being with the Baltimore Ravens.
06:34There were times where
06:35Even the Bengals,
06:36they're not sleeping easy
06:37and they've had Joe Burrow.
06:38The Dolphins thought
06:39that they were going to be fine.
06:41The Cardinals thought
06:42that they were going to be fine.
06:43The Chargers really thought
06:45that they were going to be fine.
06:46I mean, you can go on
06:47and on and on
06:47and you're just not seeing it.
06:49And I bring all that up.
06:50Remember, I'm talking about
06:51the development of these quarterbacks.
06:53They come in
06:53and we're betting on raw talent anymore
06:54and I go, man,
06:55the league has changed so much
06:56since they traded
06:57for Deshaun Watson.
06:59And you can get rid of him
07:01and he's not
07:02and nobody on this show
07:04has said,
07:05like we've said
07:06he's played the best he has
07:07in a Browns uniform.
07:08It's a low, low bar.
07:12An embarrassing low bar
07:14to be honest with you.
07:16But if I don't have
07:18very many other options,
07:19like if they win
07:20eight games this year
07:21and I don't have
07:22a lot of great other options,
07:24I don't know what
07:25you want me to do
07:26as a football team.
07:27I can sign Deshaun Watson
07:30to a small extension,
07:31which would be a lot of money
07:32for a year.
07:33And I can draft a guy,
07:35but I have to make
07:36an argument to everybody
07:37that I know
07:38my football coaching staff
07:39can develop that guy,
07:41whoever that guy may be.
07:42Because now,
07:43in a weaker QB class,
07:46I'm going to go ahead
07:47and bring this guy in.
07:47Or,
07:48I got to kick the can
07:49down the road.
07:51And against a much
07:51harder schedule,
07:54against a tougher schedule,
07:56because you're not going
07:56to have the same schedule here
07:57if you're vying
07:58for the division,
07:59you're going to have
07:59everybody's toughest ones
08:00that you play
08:01outside of where you're at.
08:03Against a tougher schedule,
08:04then you're going to have
08:04to hope that you lose
08:05and still what?
08:07Get rid of all the good work
08:09that you've done before.
08:10Possibly move on
08:11from the coach.
08:12Possibly move on
08:12from the architect
08:13of the entire franchise.
08:15Like, there's so much
08:15more change to be left.
08:16So, there's some people
08:17who are kind of left
08:18in a rock and a hard place.
08:19And I think they just
08:20want it simplified.
08:20I get why you want it simple,
08:22but I don't think
08:22it's simple anymore.
08:23Again, J.J. McCarthy
08:24has been decently effective
08:26where he was unplayable
08:27in Minnesota.
08:30There's a lot of guys
08:32that just aren't
08:33that great anymore.
08:34And anytime you ask anybody
08:35when we get in these discussions,
08:38who do you want?
08:39Who would you rather have?
08:41They don't really have answers.
08:42I mean, unless they're
08:43Shador fans.
08:44Outside of that,
08:45they don't have any answers
08:46as to who just
08:46to go get.
08:47Like, who are we
08:48just going to pluck?
08:49I hear a lot of
08:50Kirk Cousins.
08:50Just go get Kirk Cousins.
08:52Okay, what's funny is
08:53every team that
08:54wants a quarterback
08:55down the stretch,
08:56their fans are all
08:57talking Kirk Cousins.
08:58So, it's not like,
08:59you know,
09:00Cleveland's just going
09:01to get Kirk Cousins.
09:02Kirk Cousins is some
09:03of the best.
09:04He's some of the best
09:05quarterbacking that you
09:06could probably teach
09:06somebody.
09:07And when you think
09:08about how some of the
09:09best plays the Browns
09:10have had this year
09:11is Deshaun Watson
09:13getting out of pressure,
09:14staying on his feet,
09:15looking down the field,
09:16like, those are just
09:17sacks with Kirk Cousins
09:18unless he throws the
09:19ball away.
09:19He is a, but he's also
09:21basically the perfect
09:22upper middle class
09:23quarterback in the NFL.
09:24He's not the set the
09:25world on fire Hall of
09:26Famer.
09:27He's not, very rarely
09:29is he going to be
09:30absolute, complete,
09:31unplayable garbage.
09:32I mean, he's had
09:32clunkers.
09:33Every quarterback does.
09:34But he throws with
09:35anticipation.
09:36He's smart.
09:37He knows offense.
09:37He knows how to
09:38break down tape.
09:39He knows tendencies.
09:40He knows what defenses
09:41are going to do.
09:41He's a smart veteran
09:43quarterback.
09:44Yes, I know that I'm
09:45getting a look right now
09:46because I've called him
09:46leftover roast beef because
09:48that's what he is.
09:49He called him leftover
09:50pot roast.
09:50Pot roast.
09:51I beg your pardon.
09:52Well, that's it.
09:53Leftover.
09:54Nothing about Kirk
09:55Cousins is exciting.
09:57Taco Bell at 2 a.m.
09:58is really exciting.
09:59I can get you Johnny
10:00Manziel 2.0 somewhere
10:02somehow, but I can't get
10:03you a Kirk Cousins.
10:04That's what I'm saying.
10:05Everybody lashed out at
10:06Connor Orr for saying
10:07Spencer Rattler, but
10:08then give a name.
10:10Give a name.
10:10I mean, Spencer Rattler,
10:12he has good tape from
10:13last year.
10:14He does.
10:15So give me, give me
10:16Gardner Minshew.
10:17Do you want Gardner
10:17Minshew?
10:18He's a starter now.
10:19You can get Jacoby
10:19Persett.
10:20Do you want Jacoby
10:20Persett who got
10:21benched?
10:22Like, give me the
10:23names.
10:23You want Joe Flacco
10:24who's three years older
10:26than when he took us to
10:27the playoff run?
10:28Joe Flacco's like three
10:29years older than you.
10:29So give me more.
10:31I don't hear the names,
10:32but I'm in a radio
10:33studio.
10:34I'm agreeing with you.
10:35There's not many people
10:35that can help, but just
10:37give me the names.
10:38Give me the names of
10:38who should be starting
10:39quarterback like you
10:42guys realize it gets
10:43bleak in a hurry when
10:45you start going through
10:46the names.
10:47That's what I'm saying,
10:48man.
10:49I told you Zach.
10:52Who's the one that
10:53he's more famous for
10:53who his mom was then
10:55on draft night.
10:57Oh, God.
10:57Zach Wilson.
10:59Who do you want guys?
11:00The Jets.
11:01Again, my ears are open.
11:03I'm trying to be open
11:04minded.
11:04Give me the name.
11:04Wait a minute.
11:05Wasn't it his mom's
11:06friend that he had the
11:07history with?
11:07Was it?
11:07Yeah.
11:08Well, the mom was.
11:08Well, he doesn't have
11:09a history with his
11:09mom.
11:10I hope no mom has
11:11had let that happen.
11:13No.
11:14Yeah.
11:15Let's not do that one.
11:17I know there's lots of
11:18movies out there for
11:19whatever reason, somehow
11:20about that.
11:20We're not doing that.
11:21I have read flowers in
11:22the attic and seen the
11:24stories.
11:25Oh, do we have an update
11:26on the Glenville
11:26situation?
11:27They're in court.
11:30Could anyone else in the
11:31Browns QB room and won
11:32that game?
11:33Because those are the
11:34realistic ones we have
11:35to one six, four, seven,
11:36four, double, oh, 92.
11:37With that and Tone, I got
11:39some more gear.
11:41I don't have anything to
11:43unbox it, but I'm going to
11:43put it up in the YouTube
11:44coming up in five minutes
11:46on the fan.
