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00:00Any team, any time an NFL team is trying to lose games, like he doesn't think that's possible.
00:08And then, I don't even need Ken here, Padone.
00:11I could just go through the arguments because we've had them so often over the years.
00:14He'll say, well, no players are tanking, no coaches are tanking.
00:18And to that, he's right.
00:20Like, it wouldn't make any sense.
00:22Combat sport, you know, these guys are, you know, putting their bodies on the line.
00:26They're not trying to lose.
00:27We've heard the debate.
00:29But front offices also know, typically, when you put a very young football team on the field,
00:36you play a lot of young guys, and you don't have your quarterback situation settled.
00:39What do those teams do?
00:41They lose.
00:41They lose.
00:43Almost exclusively lose.
00:45Now, we've seen examples of teams win games that you never thought were going to start winning games.
00:52And let's be honest, the New England Patriots, just a couple of years ago, were a joke.
00:57We're a total joke.
00:59They didn't have anything settled.
01:02Their head coaching situation was a disaster.
01:03And then, they go and draft Drake May.
01:08Next thing you know, they're in the Super Bowl.
01:10Off to the races.
01:11Yeah.
01:12The Seattle Seahawks, a little bit different, but they're young.
01:17Yep.
01:17They lost Russell Wilson.
01:18They lost Russell Wilson.
01:19Remember that?
01:19And there were a few down years.
01:22Not many, a few.
01:23And they were able to quickly rebound.
01:25Brown obviously went through, you know, Geno, Sam Darnold.
01:30Off to the races.
01:31So, there is a path for the Browns to get off the mat here.
01:36And everybody knows what it is.
01:38It's drafting a quarterback and hitting on that quarterback in round one in April.
01:44Or, if Shador Sanders can be your quarterback.
01:48Because I did agree with a lot of what Zach said.
01:50Just about the decision to potentially put Deshaun Watson back at that starting quarterback position.
01:58Lime, I agree with, what do you gain from it?
02:01What could the Browns possibly gain from starting Deshaun week one?
02:06I can't really think of anything other than...
02:10So, you said the Browns.
02:11What did you mean by the Browns?
02:13I swear I'm not being difficult.
02:15Who makes those decisions?
02:17So, what did the Browns stand?
02:19Are you talking about the organization or are you talking about Todd Munkin?
02:22I'm talking about the organization.
02:24What do you as an organization stand to benefit from putting that guy back at QB1?
02:31I get what Munkin has to benefit.
02:33Because if he could reclaim some form Munkin stands to get a lot of credit.
02:37You know, look at what he did in his first year as a head coach.
02:40Got Deshaun Watson's career back on track.
02:42You know, I get why he would potentially want to start a veteran over a fifth round draft pick.
02:48That, you know, is still learning life in the NFL.
02:52I get it through the Munkin lens.
02:54But through the Browns lens as an organization, why?
02:58Why do it to yourself again?
03:02All right, so we've got a chance to talk to Todd Munkin.
03:05And you'll see him out today.
03:06And when fans are able to finally get out to camp, when is the first practice they're going to be?
03:10I think Friday.
03:11Friday.
03:11I think it's the 31st.
03:12All right, so the first thing they're going to notice is how into coaching he is.
03:17And it's going to sound like I'm bashing Kevin Stefanski.
03:20It's just two totally different styles.
03:22Yeah, yeah.
03:22And by the way, there are different styles that work in the NFL.
03:25You see plenty of reserve guys that have won.
03:27You've seen plenty of, you know, crazy talking guys that can win here and there.
03:33So it's just they went completely opposite of what they had previously.
03:37And I do think that's going to inject a lot of energy.
03:39But you'll see it.
03:40Like Todd Munkin is going to get in the face of his guys.
03:42He's going to be coaching them up.
03:44He's going to be throwing guys under the bus.
03:46I know he said, hey, we have two really good quarterbacks, starting quarterbacks on this team.
03:50Wait till you see him evaluate guys after a bad joint practice.
03:55Well, he also used the word embarrassing to describe the quarterback play in OTAs when interceptions happened in 7-on
04:04-7.
04:05He was really mad about that, dude.
04:07But he was mad that they were throwing interceptions in 7-on-7 with no pass rush.
04:11He used the term embarrassing.
04:14Yes, because it is embarrassing.
04:16So I think we're going to get the real Todd Munkin.
04:21He's waiting his whole career for this.
04:22Because he's not going to kowtow.
04:24I don't think there's going to be a company line.
04:27And I think, by the way, I think Andrew Barry and the team, I think they're fine with that this
04:31year.
04:32I don't know if that would be the case in two years.
04:34But I think this year, he gets his very first chance to be a head coach.
04:38And I honestly do believe he is not going to let the front office dictate this decision.
04:45I think he is going to pick the best guy.
04:48I think people like me and Zach, and I've heard Ken say it, Daryl, we had Coach Riz on yesterday.
04:56Coach Riz was the one detractor.
04:57I mean, he was basically like, no, because he's thinking like a coach, like you're going to pick the guy
05:02that's just better right now.
05:03We're all like, well, who cares if Deshaun Watson is a little better right now?
05:08Who cares about that?
05:10But Todd Munkin does.
05:12Todd Munkin probably does care about that.
05:14Yeah, Todd Munkin wants to win games this year.
05:16If Todd Munkin only wins three or four games, four or five games, you and I both know the type
05:23of conversations that we'll be having.
05:25We won't even need a rundown in late December.
05:28The entire month of December, that's what we're going to be talking about.
05:30If the season doesn't go his way.
05:32So I get why he wants to win.
05:35And if he thinks Deshaun can help him win, okay.
05:38Today, it's just the last time that we did this, when Deshaun was fully healthy, and we finally thought, okay,
05:45we're going to get a real view at what this trade looks like, was 2024.
05:50There was no injury in 2024.
05:51He was healthy in that training camp.
05:53And everybody just kept referencing, if he could do what he did in the second half of that Ravens game,
05:58we could really be on to something.
06:00We could really be off to the races again.
06:02And it didn't happen.
06:04He wasn't just bad, Lemmy.
06:05He was laughably bad.
06:07He was so atrocious.
06:08In 2024, it haunts me in my nightmares.
06:13The game that he couldn't get the play out of the headset from Stefanski against Washington.
06:19And they called two back-to-back timeouts, and he still couldn't get it.
06:23That's as mad as I've seen, Kevin.
06:24And he walked off the field.
06:25That's as mad as I think I've ever been as a Browns fan.
06:28I freaked out in my living room.
06:30I was like, did this guy really just walk off the field of an NFL game where he was the
06:35starting quarterback?
06:36That's the guy that they're seriously contemplating starting week one in Jacksonville, week two at Tampa.
06:43What's the reception going to be week three when they finally come home against Carolina?
06:47Is that part of the decision-making is that they do start on the road,
06:51and you're not going to have to worry about the Boo Birds or the same fan base that cheered his
06:56injury?
06:57Like Todd Munkin, maybe that's so far in the past.
07:01Let's go to the phones.
07:01216-474-0092.
07:03Marcus in Aurora, you're next up on The Fan.
07:06Hey, good morning, guys.
07:07What's going on?
07:09I've got to give Barry credit.
07:11You know, last year was a complete tank job, and really nobody really brought that up.
07:16And it worked like a charm.
07:18You got all those picks, and now the only real issue is who's going to be the quarterback.
07:25And I don't know.
07:27I think it's unlikely.
07:27I kind of agree with you guys about Watson.
07:31I don't know how good he could be, but it was clearly a mismatch with Stefanski's offense.
07:37So maybe Munkin's offense will help him out and make it easier for him.
07:42What if the Browns start out like four and one or three and one with Watson?
07:48I mean, how do you guys think the fans are going to react?
07:51I mean, what if the team is winning with Watson?
07:54They're going to have to abandon all the dislike for him, right?
07:57No, I just think they'll be quiet.
07:59Marcus, they'll be waiting in the wings.
08:01And it's how it looks, Mark.
08:03It's how it looks.
08:04Like, we've seen the Browns win before in spite of the quarterback.
08:08We just did a whole segment on Baker.
08:10There was times during the Baker era where even I, as a Baker fan, can admit the team
08:15was not winning because of Baker.
08:17Baker was just along for that ride.
08:18Did you see the end of the year last year at Cincinnati and Pittsburgh at home?
08:24I mean, they won because of Miles Garrett in different ways.
08:27Like, one game, Miles Garrett and Rocket Sanders, of course.
08:32Nick Wilson, tip your cap.
08:34He loved Rocket Sanders.
08:35What do you have?
08:3627 carries.
08:3727 carries.
08:39But the Steelers game, like, Miles didn't come close to a sack pretty much.
08:43Because why?
08:44Because they refused to let him.
08:46And that's how they won that game.
08:47And then the next week, Burrow was like, I'm not playing like that.
08:50I'm not going to be a coward.
08:51And so the Browns won that game.
08:53Hey, I give credit to Shador on the last drive to get him in range.
08:57But let's be honest.
08:58I mean, that was a total defensive domination the last two weeks of the year.
09:02And, you know, I've seen people talk about, well, tanking.
09:06The thing with Miles Garrett on your team was you couldn't tank.
09:09Right.
09:10Because he was single-handedly winning games.
09:12You don't have that as a problem anymore.
09:13Jared Burse is good.
09:15He's not, at least that I've seen.
09:17It's been, you know, just a couple of years.
09:19But I don't think he's so otherworldly that the Browns can win games
09:23where they're horrendous on offense just because they have Jared Burse.
09:26They did that last year because they had Miles Garrett.
09:29I also think Browns fans are smarter now than they've ever been.
09:32And they know when they look at a quarterback if a guy has it or they don't.
09:37Like, I think Browns fans will be able to tell if they're winning with Deshaun Watson
09:42or if they're winning because of Deshaun Watson.
09:44Are you sure about that?
09:45Because I got a bunch of people, a bunch of people that were telling me that,
09:50you know, Shador won those final two games of the year last year.
09:54Like, you thought that was good quarterback play?
09:56The seven turnover-worthy throws he had in the Cincinnati game?
09:59I do wonder if some of those fans, though, like the Shador fans that are Browns fans,
10:04not the Shador fans that are Shador fans that are now associated with the Browns,
10:09but the Browns fans that want to see Shador is part of the reason
10:13because you just don't want to see Deshaun anymore.
10:15Because I will be honest with you, Lima,
10:17but that's part of the reason why I'm a big Shador fan.
10:20Because he's anybody but Deshaun Watson.
10:23He's my lottery ticket out of this mess.
10:26I don't know if he's good.
10:28I don't know if he's bad.
10:29We saw the dude for seven games behind a horrible offensive line.
10:33Jerry Judy was so malcontent.
10:35He was clapping in his face like an absolute lunatic.
10:38I don't know if Shador is good.
10:40I don't know if he stinks.
10:41I know he's a lottery ticket out of this thing, though,
10:44and that is why I would put him on the field before I put Deshaun.
10:47Nick, you had some news emerging from Atlanta, for those that don't remember.
10:54Our old coach, Kevin Stefanski, he got fired here,
10:58and then he went and found another head coaching job,
11:02and he's with the Atlanta Falcons.
11:05The Falcons.
11:06And they have a quarterback situation as well.
11:10And their competition won't be getting started today at training camp.
11:14Why not?
11:14Michael Penix Jr. is still not practicing due to the knee injury that he suffered last year.
11:20Oh, boy.
11:21And Tua Tegavailoa showed up to camp with a sore back.
11:24So I immediately thought, huh, are the Falcons really now a Dylan Gabriel suitor?
11:31The Browns have four quarterbacks here.
11:34I love your thinking.
11:34Everybody's talking Watson v. Sanders.
11:37That's the quarterback competition.
11:39Gabriel versus Green is also kind of another mini quarterback competition in and of itself,
11:45just because they only have three spots.
11:47There's no way they're going to keep four.
11:49And then Adam Schefter came in and ruined my fun
11:53and reported that the Falcons will be signing veteran quarterback Cooper Rush.
11:59So they opt for Cooper Rush over Dylan Gabriel.
12:02Cooper Rush?
12:03I know it was 32 years old, 9-7 as a starter.
12:09Is that decent?
12:11Decent just fill-in, spot starts, whatever.
12:15Everybody has just told me, and the reporting has been such,
12:19so I guess I just have to accept it now,
12:21that the Dylan Gabriel pick was exclusively that of Kevin Stefanski's.
12:27I've never seen that actually vetted and confirmed.
12:32That's just what people say.
12:34Now, part of it is I think that's just what people say
12:36because Kevin's no longer here,
12:38and you don't want anybody that's currently here to be on the hook for that
12:43because then it makes you think worse about the organization than you already do.
12:47You also just don't want to light a top 100 draft pick from a year ago
12:52completely on fire,
12:53and that might be what they're forced to do here in a short couple of months
12:57because they're going to have to make some math work in that quarterback room.
13:00And I don't know that teams are tearing down Andrew Barry's door
13:05with an offer for Dylan Gabriel.
13:07I thought maybe this would have given us an opportunity for that,
13:11but they opt for Cooper Rush.
13:13Well, obviously Dylan Gabriel was abysmal last year,
13:17and many in the same ways that Shador Sanders was put in a horrific spot.
13:23Let's be honest.
13:25Yeah, Dylan Gabriel might have gotten more reps or whatever,
13:28but set up for failure I think would be an understatement for him as well.
13:33The difference is I didn't see any signs out of the Dylan Gabriel experience,
13:37and then of course he got concussed.
13:39And then there was some weird thing with the fans like booing him
13:42when he came back late in the year for a play.
13:44That was just ridiculous to me.
13:46Because they didn't want to see Sanders get taken off the field.
13:49You also, in the middle of all that, had like the TikTok stuff with the fiance.
13:54I think that rubbed a lot of fans the wrong way.
13:57And there was just a lot.
13:59Wait, his – well, hold on.
14:01Dylan Gabriel's social media, that rubbed people the wrong way,
14:04but they love Shador Sanders and Deshaun Watson's social media.
14:08You don't remember that?
14:09I'm glad about what the fiance said on the TikTok.
14:12That was a whole thing.
14:14Like, there was a lot just going on in that quarterback room last year.
14:18There's honestly a lot going on in it right now.
14:20Like, we have dueling documentary crews that will be out in Berea for each quarterback.
14:27Yeah, shocking for position.
14:28As their own film crew.
14:31Now, when Daryl Ryder has his brand-new camera that he purchased,
14:34when he is going to be out there shooting, his head's got to be on a swivel.
14:38He's got to be – he's got to have elbows out.
14:40He's got to be ready for any twist or turn.
14:42I might have to throw a bow at Shador's video guy.
14:46I might have to kick a knee of Deshaun's video guy.
14:49He's got to get this video out for us here at the fan.
14:52Could our first camp injury be somebody affiliated with the broadcast, the production crew?
14:58Could our first camp melee go first camp fight?
15:00Oh, that's right.
15:01Yeah, well, I got duped earlier.
15:02I got duped totally.
15:04I saw, oh, Mike McCarthy's first practice with Pittsburgh, an all-out brawl.
15:08So I'm like, oh, Producer John, get to the bottom of this.
15:11We need to know what's going on.
15:13And then he's like, no, it got community noted.
15:15You were duped.
15:16And then it got us thinking, like, do we need a camp fight today on day one?
15:20I always love talking about this with Ken every year.
15:22When do we want our camp fights?
15:25I don't think you want a day one, though.
15:28You don't want it with Jerry Judy and Shador Sanders getting into it.
15:31We almost had that.
15:32That wasn't a camp fight.
15:33We almost had that, like, on the sideline of a regular season game last year.
15:37That would be unfortunate.
15:38You don't want that.
15:38You want that probably a couple weeks into camp.
15:40When guys are genuinely tired of running into each other all over again,
15:45that's probably when the right time for a camp fight.
15:47When the fatigue sets in, it's like, I got to.
15:49And there's a real reason to start brawling.
15:52Like, what's the reason?
15:53Those punches don't pack a wallop.
15:54No.
15:56Unless, unless, and we kind of talked about this as well between a break.
15:59If we want to go a little tinfoil hat, does Munkin tell one of the vets,
16:04hey, go start a fight?
16:06That's right.
16:07We're going to set the tone early in this practice.
16:09I think that 100%.
16:10Mike Vrabel would be all over that.
16:12And then he would be, like, bringing his Kirk Herbstreet version of his dog
16:15onto the field to make up for any controversies that might ensue.
16:19I don't think he'd be all over.
16:20We did say there's not many vets.
16:23Like, if you were Munkin, who are you instructing on this roster to start said fight?
16:28Yeah.
16:28I don't even know.
16:29Who's the veteran that you rely on, that you'd be good with?
16:32I think it's pretty simple.
16:34It's not his guy, but Quincy Williams.
16:37Ooh, yeah.
16:38Quincy Williams came in guns a-blazin' when he got here.
16:41A vocal guy.
16:41That's Ruten Toot and Fresh and Frutenberg's guy.
16:43Usually, usually, like, a D-tackle versus an offensive lineman,
16:48but this is a completely, unless Tevin Jenkins really just starts mixing it up.
16:53Quincy Williams, Rocket Sanders.
16:55Linebackers and running backs.
16:56No, Nick likes Rocket Sanders too much.
17:00You don't want your guys fighting.
17:02You don't want to question the character of Rocket Sanders this morning.
17:04You don't want a potential suspension or an injury for a guy you love,
17:09and Rocket Sanders.
17:10I really like Rocket Sanders.
17:12I think he gave you some really nice touches last year.
17:14I hadn't even thought of Rocket Sanders.
17:16It's been months since I hadn't even thought about him.
17:18I love JP in that clip.
17:21Okay, Ken would get mad at me when I would just summarily dismiss something
17:26he was really excited to talk about as it's such a buzzkill
17:29and it's such a no-sell job, and I've been guilty of that.
17:33And Jonathan, he 100% was no-selling.
17:37And I believe, Jonathan, he does not know who Rocket Sanders is.
17:41Or have thought about Rocket Sanders because their backfield is going to be
17:45Judkins and Samson.
17:46When we brought it up, though, earlier today, I went,
17:48well, let me go see what he did last year.
17:51Okay.
17:51I pulled up the Rocket Sanders stats.
17:53What'd you want to hear?
17:54And it had his top four games right in front of me.
17:58They pointed him out, not just his season totals, but the top four games.
18:02And then I went, that's weird.
18:04Why did they do four and not five?
18:06It's because he didn't play in five games.
18:08He only played in four games.
18:09Okay, but which of the one touchdowns was your favorite?
18:14I'd say it would be the one in which he went three carries, three yards,
18:18but did have that one touchdown, long of two.
18:20Is that when Nick fell in love with Rocket Sanders?
18:24He said, you know what, we found something.
18:26Week one, and then he had several weeks off to get ready for his next
18:30appearance against Buffalo on December 21st.
18:32You got to keep him fresh.
18:33I mean, a guy that you love like that.
18:35He had 3.8 yards of carry.
18:37Yeah, he turned it up a notch.
18:392.6 the next week against Pittsburgh, and then the next week, 5.2.
18:43Now, that's a flash of brilliance.
18:45He had five carries for 26 yards and 14 of those on one carry.
18:49He did.
18:50But still.
18:52I'm excited.
18:53I'm looking forward to seeing Rocket Sanders.
18:54I am, too.
18:54Well, now.
18:55I wasn't before this morning.
18:57Yeah.
18:57I just hope this doesn't get in the way of like Quid Sean Judkins if there's
19:01like a, oh, man, we've been giving the ball to Rocket too much because we love
19:05him, and Nick loves him so much, and then we forget about Quid Sean Judkins.
19:08He's not going to be happy about that.
19:11No way.
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