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00:00Now, back to Willard and Dibbs.
00:03Not bad, guys.
00:09On Naughty 5.7 The Game.
00:11Look, if you do anything in a public space for a living,
00:14you're kind of addicted to making people laugh.
00:16Yep.
00:17And if you can find someone with an infectious laugh,
00:21that's even better.
00:22And that's what we got with our guy.
00:24That's who Greg Cosell is.
00:27He's not just from NFL films.
00:28He's a man with an infectious laugh.
00:30Oh, yeah.
00:31You've been told that before, Greg?
00:33Many times, many times.
00:35People tell me they like my laugh, you know.
00:37What can I tell you?
00:38We love your laugh.
00:39Oh, yeah.
00:40And we love to try to make you laugh.
00:43We'll try to do it again as Greg joins us here on the River Islands.
00:45Well, as long as I'm not laughing at you guys.
00:47Well, no, we're okay with that, too.
00:48I mean, if you're going to put yourself out there, you know what I mean?
00:51Like, we ask you stupid stuff all the time.
00:53You can laugh at us, Greg.
00:57All right.
00:57Well, we'll see what happens tonight.
00:59We'll see what happens tonight.
01:00Yeah, let's find out.
01:02Okay.
01:02I don't even know necessarily where to start,
01:05so what if I kind of just do it in an umbrella sort of a way?
01:09The last time we talked to you, it was right before the Niners
01:12were going to go play the Rams.
01:13With all those injuries, Greg, they won the game.
01:17Talk to us.
01:18How did they do it?
01:20Well, I'm sure you probably got a lot of calls about how good Kyle Shanahan was,
01:24didn't you?
01:24Absolutely.
01:25Actually, we did.
01:26But as you might guess, no, we did.
01:29But we've got even more who now want Mac Jones to keep starting until he loses.
01:35Well, we knew that was coming, too.
01:37Of course.
01:38So let's talk about this in a little more 30,000-foot way.
01:42Because, you know, I actually watched the tape of this game on Saturday.
01:46So, you know, it's been five days.
01:48But obviously, I take really detailed notes.
01:50So it's, you know, I've got that in front of me now as we're talking.
01:52I think one thing that's really important for one thing that's really important for people
01:57to understand about Kyle Shanahan and the passing game, every route is choreographed with footwork
02:04and eyes.
02:05And the foundation of the pass game is what we call pure progression.
02:09So, in other words, you're not coming to the line necessarily and worrying about protection.
02:15The quarterbacks in the Kyle Shanahan system are rarely involved in calling or setting protections.
02:21They can override something if they really see something potentially problematic, but they
02:26don't call the protections.
02:29And pure progression, just to give a very quick, you know, without going into great detail,
02:35means that they're not necessarily reading the defense the way a lot of people think about
02:39reading defense.
02:41Because pure progression means you've got a primary, a secondary, a third, and you want
02:47to throw it to the primary.
02:48But if he's not open, you're not thinking, oh, why is he not open?
02:52You're just moving to the next guy.
02:54So, it's not really a function of studying the defense in great detail pre-snap.
03:00So, you're really a post-snap operator.
03:02And then what I thought was, because obviously Mac Jones was efficient in that game, I thought
03:09to myself, let's think about maybe the 32 starting quarterbacks, maybe even 64 if you
03:14want to go to backups, because theoretically, that's what Mac Jones is, a backup.
03:18They're probably not all that much different with regards to arm talent, accuracy, processing.
03:24There, you know, there's a few elite guys that maybe have one really strong trade, whether
03:29that be great processing, great timing, anticipation, amazing arm talent, athletic ability.
03:36But for the most part, it's more about the system that they learn in, and especially regarding
03:44the scheme and the play caller's ability to help them play and process consistently.
03:50That's what it's really about, guys.
03:51There's not, you know, 20 guys who are like, oh my God, these guys can do anything in any
03:57system, and wow, they're great.
03:59There's, in fact, very few of those guys.
04:01And by the way, even the guys we consider great, they have a limitation or two as well.
04:07It's just that the coach understands how to, you know, work around that and how to make
04:12sure that that limitation does not become an issue in critical situations.
04:17So, that's really what it's about with a quarterback.
04:19And you look at the system and the scheme, and I'm thinking about the second touchdown,
04:23Greg, second and goal from the one, and they line up with two running backs in the backfield,
04:29and then they shift out, and all of a sudden now we've got problems if you're Los Angeles
04:33because McCaffrey is out there in the slot.
04:36What did you see on film from a scheme standpoint that made that play so perfect?
04:41You're talking about the one-yard touchdown of McCaffrey, right?
04:44Yes.
04:44And it's funny, you know, I'm looking at my notes, it came on great design off a pre-snap
04:51shift of Juszczyk, McCaffrey, and Tongas, which put McCaffrey in the slot to the field
04:57inside of Tongas.
04:58Now, the reason this was so good is the Rams were in heavy personnel, and they only had
05:03one defensive back on the field.
05:06So it was linebacker Reeder who walked out to match up to McCaffrey.
05:11So they had it right there.
05:12They knew, I guarantee, Mac Jones right then, and you probably couldn't see it on TV, but
05:17my guess is he was probably smiling right about that moment because he knew that he had McCaffrey
05:22on the quick out versus Reeder.
05:24So it was just great play design, great use of personnel, understanding exactly what you
05:30would get from the Rams personnel and how they would then match up, and it became just pitch
05:36and catch, but it was such good design and scheming.
05:39Greg Cosell, NFL Films with us.
05:41Okay, Greg, I know you get fatigued on this stuff, but I'm asking questions that I know
05:47that our listeners have.
05:48So I want to ask you two questions about two quarterbacks for the 49ers, and let's start
05:53with Mac.
05:54Like, why don't you give everybody a deep dive on what you saw from him last Thursday
06:02night and how that sort of, you know, how that plays out going forward?
06:07Because it sounds like he's probably going to get at least one more coming up this weekend.
06:12Sure.
06:12And I'm sure they don't want to put Purdy out there until he's 100% healthy, which would
06:16be smart.
06:17We've only played five games.
06:18There's a lot of season to go.
06:20And not that they want to lose a game, but the fact is they're 4-1.
06:23So they're in very good shape right now.
06:26You know, as we discussed, when Mac Jones first played, you know, a number of weeks
06:31ago against the Saints, and then Purdy came back for the one game, Mac Jones, in many ways,
06:37fits exactly what the Shanahan system is.
06:40And I'm sure that's why they signed him.
06:42And I'm sure that's why there was all that talk the year they drafted Trey Lance that
06:45it would be Mac Jones.
06:47Because this is the kind of quarterback he is.
06:50You saw the rhythm with which he played.
06:51He hit his back foot, and for the most part, the ball came out, which negated a really strong
06:57four-man D-line pass rush of the Rams, which is what you were trying to do anyway, because
07:02you didn't want that group to really get fired up.
07:04But it's all timing and rhythm.
07:07It's all choreography.
07:09He's very efficient playing that way.
07:11That's really the only way he can play at a high level.
07:15They were really good on third down.
07:17I think they had 18 third down plays, which is a ton in a game.
07:22He was 6-for-12 with five of the six completions resulting in first down.
07:26That's the critical stat.
07:28You want to get first downs on third down.
07:30But he looked very, very efficient.
07:32There's absolutely no question about that.
07:34Now, what's really interesting about the game, though, he got very lucky on a third and
07:3911 play with just over three minutes remaining in the fourth quarter and the game tied.
07:43You might remember this play.
07:45He threw a kind of a quick seam route to a short seam almost to Tongass, and the dropping
07:53linebacker, Stewart, got his hands on the pass.
07:55But if Stewart did not touch it, Curl would have intercepted that ball easily.
08:00He was literally right there.
08:02And that's what happens in games.
08:04There are so many plays.
08:05Not every play is perfect.
08:07And sometimes that stuff has to happen.
08:09And the other factor is, and this is why you go through a whole game, obviously Kyron
08:15Williams fumbled.
08:16But let's say he scores a touchdown there and they lose the game.
08:19What do you think the conversation would have been about Mac Jones?
08:23And it wouldn't have changed anything about the way in which he played.
08:26It would have changed nothing about the way in which he played.
08:30But nobody would be saying, oh, my God, that's Mac Jones' best game as a pro.
08:35That wouldn't have been the way the conversation would have progressed.
08:38Wouldn't you guys agree with that?
08:39Yeah, I mean, unless he then grabbed the ball with a minute left to go and went down the
08:43field and scored.
08:44Right, but let's assume that didn't happen.
08:45Yeah.
08:45Yeah, let's assume that didn't happen.
08:47No, you're absolutely right.
08:48Which takes nothing away from the way in which he played, by the way.
08:51I thought he was really efficient.
08:53I thought that Kyle did such a good job with creating primary read throws so that he could
08:59hit that back foot and the ball could come out.
09:01As I said, because everything is so choreographed in the Kyle Shanahan system.
09:06And it looked pretty.
09:08So, Greg, this is what I think a lot of people are wondering about now, which is if you're
09:12going to say this is so much about Kyle Shanahan and largely most NFL quarterbacks kind of
09:18same arm talent, you know, all of that.
09:22Then the question, I think, for Niner fans sort of gets to like, well, then why would they
09:27ever pay big dollars for a quarterback if it's almost just kind of sub in, sub out?
09:34Which leads me to, you said certain quarterbacks have a very special, at least one skill set.
09:41Does Brock Purdy, like what is his great skill?
09:46I would say that Brock Purdy's sense of timing and anticipation is a notch better than Mack
09:54Jones.
09:56I would say Purdy's, I think one of his superpowers is his ability to innately and instantaneously
10:07seek late coverage rotation and know exactly how that impacts his post-snap operation.
10:13I think those are the two things that Purdy does at a really, really high level.
10:19And I think he does that at a higher level than Mack Jones.
10:22But Mack Jones can be very efficient within the context of a Shanahan offense.
10:28When you look at this weekend's opponent and it's Baker Mayfield, how much better has he
10:33gotten?
10:33Or is it more that he's a byproduct now of being in a better system?
10:37It's a combination of both, but the system is always a big deal.
10:45I mean, it's funny, the more tape I watch and the more I see how coaches use motion, and
10:50by the way, the 49ers lead the NFL in the deployment of movement before the snap of the ball, pre-snap
10:56movement, and more and more teams are doing that.
10:59To me, it more often than not really comes down to how the coordinator uses the entire
11:10scheme and everything that goes with it.
11:12Use of personnel, formations, motion, route concepts, and how that puts the quarterback
11:18in a position to play with decisiveness.
11:21The last thing you want from a quarterback is getting stuck in the pocket because he
11:26just doesn't know where to go with the football.
11:28Now, can that happen sometimes?
11:30Obviously, defensive coaches and players get paid, too, as everybody says.
11:35But I think, you know, Baker has been in a great system.
11:38Last year, he had a Liam Cohen.
11:40This year, he has a new coordinator, but he's doing a terrific job in terms of all these factors
11:44that I just spoke about.
11:46And Baker is playing with such, such decisiveness.
11:49And the other thing, too, that stands out is first down passing.
11:54First down passing, I've always believed, and I was taught this by people a lot smarter
11:58than I am, is really the best down to throw on, guys, because you pretty much more, everything
12:05in football is probability and tendency.
12:07But on first down, you get much more predictable tendency fronts and coverages.
12:13And it's just the best down.
12:15And last week, Baker was so good on first down.
12:17I think he was 14 for 16 for 191 yards on first down.
12:22And it's just the best down to throw.
12:24Greg Cosell, NFL Films.
12:26Greg, how did you see the 49ers deploy Kendrick Bourne in what led to a big night for him?
12:34You know, it's funny.
12:36And this is no knock on Kendrick Bourne.
12:37He's playing the league a long time.
12:39And not that he cares what I think.
12:40But he's the kind of player that I just love those kinds of guys.
12:44Guys who are, you know, playing the league 10, 12 years.
12:47They're not going to be Hall of Famers.
12:48But they're just really, really good players over the course of a, you know, of a long career.
12:54I think he happened to be the beneficiary of just a really, really well-schemed pass game.
13:01I mean, like, he had a 16-yarder in the second quarter on second and nine.
13:05It's a high-low concept.
13:06They run a high-low concept no matter who the receivers are.
13:09He happened to run the high route in the high-low concept.
13:12And it was precise timing and ball placement by Jones.
13:16You know, there was another high-low concept where he ran the intermediate out cut.
13:21And Jones threw a really good ball.
13:22It was 19 yards on the first third quarter possession.
13:25I mean, he just, he's always run good routes.
13:29He's always been that guy who understands how to run routes.
13:32But there are, you know, a lot of plays where the concept, Bourne was the guy within the concept.
13:40And I'm not saying anybody could have done it.
13:42I don't want to say it that way because that makes it seem like, you know, Bourne, like I could have been out there,
13:47which is obviously not the case.
13:49But he was the guy that they ended up, you know, focusing on, you know, out of the concepts where he was the primary.
13:55And Tampa Bay does a lot of 11 personnel where, you know, you've got the three wide receivers.
14:01And even though they've been down a couple of their big guys, Emeka Abuka has been unbelievable through five weeks.
14:07What do you see from not only him but the overall Tampa offense on tape, Greg?
14:15Yeah, I mean, obviously Abuka, he's a really good player.
14:19You guys may know that he comes from up in the Seattle area.
14:23And he was initially going to go to Stanford and Ohio State came calling because he's an incredibly impressive person.
14:31I watched him speak at the podium at the Combine this past year, you know, when he came out.
14:36And you came away from listening to him talk thinking this guy's going to be the CEO of a major corporation.
14:41I mean, he's really an impressive guy.
14:43And from everything you hear, he just gets it.
14:46You know, he understands what he has to do.
14:49He understands what being a pro is.
14:50He's a really refined route runner.
14:53He's got really good hands.
14:54He's got a little more speed than people probably give him credit for.
14:57You know, not a burner, but he's not, you know, just a slower possession type.
15:03And, you know, that's what you want in your receivers.
15:05He understands how to beat man.
15:07He understands how to find voids and zones.
15:09He understands the pace and tempo and timing of routes.
15:13You know, that's what route running is.
15:15It's not just, hey, let's run.
15:18That's why very often guys who are 4-3 guys are not often always great receivers because they've always been able just to run and they don't necessarily understand the pace, the timing, the rhythm of routes.
15:30Greg, I'm not quite done with last Thursday's game yet.
15:33I want to ask you one more.
15:35Let's go fourth down in overtime.
15:38You can ask me more than one.
15:39Well, sure.
15:40And maybe we will.
15:40No promises.
15:42But, like, Sean McVay was so upset with himself after the game for what he called a horrible call.
15:50So, I want to know what your perspective was on that play and what did you see and how that came together?
15:58Well, they had run the exact same play three or four times prior to that and they converted every time.
16:04So, it's easy to say the fact that they didn't convert that, oh, well, they'd ran up before and the 49ers knew based on the formation that it was coming.
16:12Maybe so.
16:13So, look, when coaches do that in a press conference and you guys have been around long enough to know, you know, we don't know.
16:20And McVay, to me, I don't know Sean McVay.
16:23He comes across as reasonably genuine to me just from seeing him, you know, do that stuff.
16:28But you don't know if he's doing that to take one for the team.
16:30And, you know, you don't know the answer to that.
16:32But all I know is that they'd run the exact same play in short yards three or four times.
16:36It worked every time.
16:38So, you know, it's obviously it didn't work that time.
16:43So, for the 49ers, that was a good deal.
16:45For the Rams, it wasn't.
16:47But, you know, I think that he did say he would have gone for it, you know, no matter what.
16:52And that's okay.
16:54Is it harder for these teams that don't utilize the tight end a lot to go ahead and try to run that sort of a play when you're looking at fourth and short?
17:05I mean, there's many ways.
17:08There's many plays you can run on fourth and short, obviously.
17:10You run what you think you can execute well.
17:14You know, as I said, that particular play had worked earlier in the game.
17:19You know, look, there's always the way these kinds of plays work.
17:25And you guys know this.
17:27When it doesn't work, people say they should have done something else.
17:30When it works and they run something that's kind of a staple, people say, oh, they went to something they know they can execute.
17:35So, you know, once we have access to the result, it becomes an easy thing to talk about.
17:41You know, that's always the way these kinds of things work in critical situations.
17:45Greg, I know when we look at the Tampa Bay Bucs, everybody, you know, their eyes are all just kind of focused on that offense.
17:52I noticed, though, that, you know, Tampa has given up the third most points in the NFC as well.
17:58It seems like it's going to be this same 49ers kind of skeleton crew going in there.
18:04But what do you think about that matchup?
18:06What opportunity exists for the 49ers offense?
18:09Like, what have you seen from the Bucs defense?
18:12Well, you know, the Bucs defense normally, normally, and it may be different because they've had some injuries on defense as well.
18:20Normally, Todd Bowles is a high percentage blitzer.
18:24He did not do that very much against the Seahawks last week.
18:27And there may have been reasons for that.
18:29The Seahawks are a high percentage base personnel offense as the 49ers are.
18:35And maybe he felt, hey, you know, I'm not playing in my nickel, you know, in my base defense.
18:42I'm not going to blitz as much.
18:43I don't know the reason why.
18:44All I know is that Todd Bowles has always been one of the highest percentage blitzers in the league.
18:50Tampa's always near the top in blitz percentage.
18:52And he has some real staple pressures that are really difficult because he's so good at understanding protections and attacking protections.
19:01And, again, what Kyle Shanahan, I'm sure, will be looking to do, number one, they'll want to keep trying to get the run game going, first and foremost.
19:08But, number two, they'll want to get the pass game to be very similar.
19:13Not exactly, you don't do the same thing every week, but they'll want the ball to come out quick.
19:17That'll be, you know, that's always the key against a Todd Bowles defense because you never know when he is going to blitz.
19:24Greg Cosell, NFL Films, we got a couple laughs in there.
19:28That's all we need to keep us fueled and ready to go.
19:32So, thank you very much.
19:33You know what I meant to tell you guys if we just have a second?
19:35Yeah, we do.
19:36You know, I grew up in Queens in New York.
19:40And from the time I was six, seven years old, this was actually before the Big East in college basketball,
19:46I had season tickets with my dad at St. John's, which was ten minutes from my house.
19:50So, my favorite player ever was Chris Mullen.
19:53And I'm sure you guys know him.
19:54Oh, yeah.
19:55He comes on all the time.
19:56Yeah, he was a guy that, you know, all through the years, because he was my favorite player,
20:01you know, I'm in the sports business, obviously, that I always wanted a me,
20:04because, you know, it was one of the, like, when I was, that was the last time I was, like,
20:08passionate about, you know, the St. John's team in the Big East in, like, 85, 80, you know,
20:14I guess it was 82 to 85, that I was super passionate about a college team.
20:19And it was those Mullen years.
20:21Yeah, Bill Wennington and all the fellows out there.
20:24Mark Jackson was on no team, by the way.
20:28Yep.
20:28And then Walter Berry.
20:30Walter Berry.
20:30Yeah.
20:30I don't know that.
20:31Yeah.
20:31Did you ever break down NBA film, Greg?
20:35No, but I'm a basketball guy.
20:37I played in high school and college, so.
20:39Okay.
20:40My claim to fame, guys, in high school, my claim to fame in high school was I went head-to-head
20:44against Ernie Grunfeld.
20:47Wow.
20:47That's incredible.
20:49You know, Greg, if we keep...
20:50Needless to say, he got the better of it.
20:52Wow.
20:53I can't imagine that, but not every time, right?
20:56Well, yeah.
20:58Yeah.
20:59Yeah, every time.
20:59I'm not ashamed to say that, you know?
21:01That's the way it goes.
21:02Man, the glory days of the Big East with Raleigh Massimino and Villanova and John Thompson
21:08and the Big Towel and, of course, you know, Louis Kanaseka for your old Red Men back then.
21:15When I was growing up, we sat three roads behind Louis at St. John's and Alumni Hall
21:18before the Big East.
21:19So good.
21:20Greg, if you really want this segment to go through the roof, we'll have you come on during
21:24the NBA season and break down a little Jonathan Kaminga film.
21:27Yes, he re-signed, right?
21:30He sure did.
21:32And now I guess Seth Curry's there, too, huh?
21:34That's correct.
21:35We got both of them.
21:37Wow.
21:38Yeah.
21:38When does the opening game?
21:41When's the NBA start?
21:42Yeah, a couple weeks here.
21:43A couple weeks.
21:45Yeah, because I know that the NHL started last night, but the NBA in a couple of weeks, huh?
21:50Exactly right.
21:51Yeah.
21:51So get to work, Greg.
21:53We're going to ask you.
21:55Oh, boy.
21:56Oh, boy.
21:57It's going to be tough.
21:58I don't have time in my life for that, guys, you know?
22:01Greg, we'll talk to you next week.
22:02Thank you, my friend.
22:04All right, guys.
22:05Love it as always.
22:06Thanks so much.
22:06Okay, thank you.
22:07There's Greg Cosell, NFL slash NBA Films.
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