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00:00River Island's guest line, he's on YouTube with us as well.
00:03Our good buddy Tim Kawakami, topped in like no other.
00:06The TK Show, obviously, wonderful.
00:09SF Standard as well.
00:10Tim, how are you this afternoon?
00:12What's going on?
00:13I'm not doing very well, Mark.
00:14How you doing, Dibs?
00:15Yeah, I can't believe it.
00:17You are calling this accurately.
00:18Last night I was like, you know what?
00:20I don't really have to monitor this game.
00:22I certainly don't have to tweet about this game any longer.
00:24And I actually made a phone call, was talking with a friend,
00:27and then about five minutes left in the fourth quarter.
00:31I said, you know what?
00:31I will call you back.
00:33I think I need to pay attention to this.
00:34And I'm glad it was a really interesting game.
00:37Obviously, Warriors don't win, but things, you know,
00:40usually when Steph and Jimmy Butler are out,
00:43I can kind of like kind of phase in, phase out.
00:46And I did phase in and out and then really back in on that game.
00:50Exactly.
00:51So where is the Pat Spencer experience going?
00:54They've got another 27-some-odd games of activity to figure out
01:01what they want to do with him.
01:03How far away is he from sort of becoming in their plans, I guess?
01:08Well, I mean, obviously he's on a two-way contract, as you mentioned,
01:11as Kerr mentions this frequently,
01:12because I think they are going to try to figure out how to get him on.
01:15They have 15 roster spots filled up.
01:18Seth Curry was number 15.
01:20They are right up against the second apron.
01:22They are hard capped there because they used their mid-level on Al Horford.
01:26They're going to have to do a two-for-one, three-for-one, you know,
01:29something like that, I think, to open up a space for him.
01:32That is something I'm sure we can talk about.
01:34I think that, you know, they are going to be active on the trade market.
01:38But they can't do anything.
01:40They got time with Spencer.
01:4027 games is a lot.
01:42They could even mess around with it.
01:44And, you know, it's hard to imagine now not having Pat Spencer activated on this team.
01:48But I think when Steph is back, the role is lessened.
01:53I think he's really important.
01:54He's really shown he's very important when Steph is not playing just to be that initiator.
01:59And certainly when Steph and Butler aren't playing.
02:02But when games and they're back, maybe less so.
02:06Although, I think he's a good player.
02:08I mean, Pat Spencer has won me over.
02:11My guy Marcus Thompson has been a Pat Spencer guy all along.
02:14And he's got over the hump for me.
02:19This guy can play.
02:20And I think the Warriors are going to try to figure out a way to get him on the full roster this season
02:24and maybe try to get him, you know, into some kind of two-year deal so he's on the roster next year.
02:29We'll see.
02:30This is a new thing for them.
02:31They obviously had not planned for this.
02:32But, hey, you've got to react to a guy playing well, specifically, specifically when Steph is missing the game.
02:39And he's going to miss more than another couple games probably, right?
02:42He's probably going to miss another four, five, six, seven games this season.
02:46Maybe just out of common sense.
02:47Maybe a little injury here or two.
02:49And then I think here's what we found out.
02:52And I don't want to make an incredible hot take judgment here.
02:55But in the games that Steph misses, Pat Spencer is better for them than Brandon Pajemski.
03:02And I don't think Brandon Pajemski's fans and Brandon Pajemski himself love hearing that.
03:06I think it is true.
03:07I don't know how you can argue it at this point.
03:10And then when Steph and Jimmy Butler are back, Pajemski is fine in that situation.
03:16He's not good as being the initial initiator.
03:19And guess what?
03:20Pat Spencer is pretty good at it.
03:22Yeah, I mean, he's been good in a small sample, Tim Kawakami here on 95.7 The Game.
03:26So I guess the follow-up question is, who is good at that when those guys are out?
03:31Because we saw J.K. try to do it.
03:32And it felt to me, Tim, like it was the old Kaminga from last year where he's just trying to get his.
03:38He's trying to get to the mid-range, which, as you know, is the one shot you don't want to take.
03:43Yeah, he's hesitant.
03:45I think his season changed when, you know, he had been playing so well.
03:49We all noted it early in the season.
03:51He's with the situation.
03:53He's blending in well.
03:55At times, he's taken over two, three possessions at a time.
03:58Then he hurt his knee while they were making this change anyway, pulling him out of the starting rotation.
04:03I don't think Kerr really was overly emotionally committed to J.K. in the starting lineup.
04:08But it had done well.
04:09And then Moody was back, and then there were other options.
04:13And then he hurts his knee, and they win those two big games in San Antonio.
04:16And it was noted.
04:17I don't think he liked that it was noted.
04:19It was noted by me.
04:20I'm pretty sure he did not like that it was noted by me.
04:22I know his agent did not like it was noted by me.
04:25But guess what?
04:26We're three weeks later, and it feels similar.
04:28I think he's an amazing talent.
04:30I don't think it's best for him to be on the Warriors.
04:32I don't think it's best for the Warriors for him to be here.
04:35And I think we're all seeing it.
04:36Other teams like him a lot.
04:39That's great.
04:41I don't think the Warriors want to trade him at a discount.
04:43Maybe that's not what happens.
04:45But they're getting towards that situation where they've got to figure out what they can get for him.
04:50And do they have to just trade him for something?
04:53Or do they hold on to him and try to trade him for something more in the offseason?
04:57I'll just say, you know what?
04:59The reason why people reacted so strongly to me saying it three weeks, whatever those first games were, wasn't because it was wrong.
05:06It's because they're just very sensitive about it.
05:08It's a sensitive issue.
05:09It's the real thing.
05:11You know me.
05:12I don't mind putting my finger on the third rail sometimes.
05:14And I did that time.
05:15Fine.
05:17I don't think I was wrong.
05:18And as this is developing, it just doesn't seem like it.
05:23Again, it could turn again.
05:24And I'll say it if it turns again.
05:26I don't know that this is going to work out with the Warriors and Jonathan coming in.
05:30I think we all could have predicted that in the offseason.
05:32But you did have to play it out.
05:34Yeah.
05:34And they still have to keep playing it out.
05:36It's not over.
05:37I'm not saying it's over.
05:37I'm just saying that's where this is headed.
05:39It's been headed this way most of his Warriors career, right?
05:43I mean, it's just with ups and downs and ups, but it always kind of returns to the mean.
05:47It returns to where everything flows to with, does he really fit here?
05:51And in the moments when he should be at his best, right, when Seth Curry and Jimmy Butler
05:56are not in the lineup, he's not good.
05:59And that's the roughest part, I think, for the Kaminga people is this should be when he
06:05has every chance and every right to take over and he's receding further into the background.
06:10That's not great.
06:10That's not great for someone as talented as he is, someone who's as bright as he is,
06:15someone who wants to be great, is yearning to be great, wants to be great on this team,
06:21sometimes wants to be great and let the stars get out of his way.
06:25That's not going to happen.
06:26And then when they do get out of his way, when they're hurt, it doesn't happen either.
06:30Those are an interesting set of circumstances that probably would lead you to believe that
06:34this is not going to happen for him here.
06:36Tim Calcami, SF Standards.
06:38So, yeah, a couple things there.
06:39First of all, Tim, you weren't wrong.
06:41So, I was following that whole thing.
06:43And you were absolutely...
06:44That would have got a little bit of a big, big, big conflagration there.
06:47I mean, it's like you said, though.
06:49It's touchy.
06:50And sometimes I think some of us don't even understand how it's gotten to this point.
06:54But it doesn't matter because it has.
06:56And so, like you just said something there at the end that I want to dig into.
07:00He wants to be great on this team.
07:02The one thing I still don't feel like we collectively know is whether or not he wants to be here.
07:09And the agent's behavior, especially recently, call it what you want.
07:15He ripped Steve Kerr on Twitter.
07:17I don't see how that's productive, certainly for the Warriors, but even for Jonathan.
07:23What's going on with that group?
07:25What do they want in a perfect world?
07:28They want J.K. to be a star, which is fine.
07:30I appreciate that.
07:31I told Aaron Turner on Twitter, I understand your point of view.
07:35It's not going to happen at this moment.
07:38It's not happening when he's been given the chance to do it.
07:41At some point, you have to say it's not going to happen.
07:42But I'm going to separate the agent from Jonathan.
07:46At some point, you can't.
07:47It is his agent.
07:48He's working for Kaminga.
07:50But, you know, he's a pop-off.
07:52Fine.
07:53Maybe that's going to help.
07:54I think it might have helped him get some more money from the Warriors, which is his job.
07:58All the good.
07:59I don't know what popping off on Twitter now, once he's gotten paid, is all about.
08:04But fine.
08:05I don't think he's getting Steve Kerr fired.
08:07Right?
08:07I don't think he's getting Steph Curry to defer to Jonathan Kaminga.
08:11I don't think he's going to get this thing turned over to Jonathan Kaminga style and have, you know, sign a five-year $250 million.
08:19I don't think any of that's happening.
08:21So, okay.
08:23I think Kaminga wants to be a star.
08:26And I know he does, which is great.
08:27That's what players should be.
08:29I don't know that he knows exactly what it's going to take to get there.
08:32I mean, we can see it.
08:33He stumbles through some of this.
08:34And then he has a great moment.
08:36Did I put back, Doug?
08:37Even in last night's game was incredible.
08:39He can do things not many people can do.
08:41Can he do it for 20 straight plays and seven straight minutes?
08:46He has not proven he can do that.
08:48And in this situation, at the end of a dynasty, you kind of need him to do it.
08:54And is he any better now than he was two years ago?
08:57You know, three years ago?
08:58Any more consistent?
08:59Maybe.
09:01But now his contract is such that the Warriors can use it in a trade.
09:05That was the whole point of what they did with his contract in the offseason.
09:09So, it just comes to the point where you have to make a decision on something.
09:13You know, finally, they put it off last year.
09:17Maybe they should have made a call and just said, you know what?
09:20Let's just move him in a signing trade.
09:23As a restricted phrase, they didn't.
09:24Okay, I understand Joe Lacobb loves him and loves his potential, but he loved James Wiseman's potential, too.
09:31And they traded him for, you know, I shouldn't say for very little, for Gary Payton a second back.
09:36He just wasn't a huge value.
09:38But, hey, that's what it was.
09:40They might have to make the same decision with Kaminga.
09:42You know, you're not trading him for two first-round picks or trading him for Giannis or trading him for, you know, all these other things with Trey Murphy.
09:50I don't know that that's going to happen.
09:51Maybe.
09:52But I think it's heading towards, do you make a convenience trade, which would be for a CJ McCollum or for a DeMar DeRozan?
10:00I know they don't want to do that.
10:02They don't want to sacrifice that value.
10:04Then you have to make that decision, and then you carry him into the offseason, possibly, you know, against some of his wishes.
10:13And then you go from there.
10:14I think you ask what he wants.
10:16He wants 20 shots a game, and he wants to play 35 minutes a game.
10:20That's what he wants that you can tell.
10:22It's in his body language.
10:23It's in everything he does.
10:24That's fine.
10:25You should want that when you're a basketball player, especially with his skill set.
10:30He hasn't earned it with the Warriors.
10:31He just hasn't.
10:32And if you're going to earn it, you're going to do it in the games where Steph doesn't play.
10:36And that has not happened at all this season.
10:39So, again, they're running out of time on this to just be able to put it off.
10:43He's 23, still very young, but they're contractually and situationally running out of time.
10:49It just tells you, again, I don't want to make sweeping decisions when they don't have to do them.
10:55But this is heading down that road, and it started down that road three weeks ago.
10:59And there's very little, I'll just put very little reaction against me when I say it now, which is almost the exact same thing I said three weeks ago.
11:07So, that's okay.
11:09Sometimes it takes a while to congeal, and I think we're seeing it.
11:13Yeah.
11:13Interesting you say that, Tim, because in the summer, Mark and I fought and fought, and I said it can work, it could work.
11:19And through the first 12 games, he averaged 29 a game, and he was doing the things that they needed.
11:24So, I was victory lapping all over this mother jumper, and then, well, the next 10 games have happened.
11:29And so, Mark actually has gone to my camp and back to your camp.
11:33Well, it could have.
11:34It could have worked.
11:35It could have worked.
11:35I mean, it did for a minute there.
11:37Yeah, exactly.
11:38And, you know, if he wasn't in a different contractual situation, maybe you could keep riding it.
11:43He is not in that.
11:44He didn't want a long-term deal.
11:46They didn't want a long-term deal.
11:48Okay.
11:49I guess there's realities here that were set up by what's happened over the last two years.
11:53It really was set up by Jimmy Butler being traded here, because that's when, you know, Jonathan was out with the ankle injury.
12:01They take off.
12:02He comes back, does not fit into this.
12:04It's just not his style.
12:05The Butler offense doesn't fit him.
12:07The Curry offense sort of fits him.
12:10But they have other guys who play better within those things.
12:14And then that led to him getting the DMPs, which were explosive.
12:18That led to the weird negotiations over the summer.
12:21That led to the short-term contract.
12:23That leads to what we're looking at right now.
12:25But it could have gone other ways.
12:27There's no question.
12:28He's got the talent.
12:30No question.
12:30Like, they need that.
12:31They need a power forward behind Raymond Green, who's explosive.
12:35He just hasn't been that.
12:37And I don't think it's going to happen for him here.
12:39And it really, really is better for him, I think, for it to happen somewhere else.
12:43It's just a matter of finding what that else is and what the Warriors get for him.
12:47Tim, you know what's interesting?
12:48I think maybe the bigger news of the week is not the Jonathan Kaminga situation continuing to be the same thing that it's been for many months.
12:56It's the fact that now Brandon Pajemski is getting pulled out of fourth quarters and was entered back into a fourth quarter on Tuesday.
13:04And it became a whole thing and all of that.
13:06So, especially with D'Anthony Melton coming back, where is the organization on pods?
13:13Well, the Warriors still love him.
13:15I know Warriors fans are not in unity with that, but he still does stuff they like.
13:22He still works well with superstars.
13:24He's kind of a player that you can plug in when you have Steph Curry and you have Jimmy Butler.
13:29The point is, they don't have them right now, and they will not have them at all times during the regular season.
13:34They probably will have them for the playoffs, though, if they make the playoffs.
13:38So, he remains valuable in a lot of ways.
13:41I've been critical of him.
13:42Others have been critical of him.
13:44But I still acknowledge the guy does things that help teams win when there's a Steph Curry out there and when there's a Jimmy Butler out there,
13:52which is going to be most times for the Warriors.
13:54But when they're not out there, he ain't that good.
13:56And he gets stuck.
13:59He can't get to the rim.
14:01It looks like he droops noticeably when he misses shots.
14:04Teams are giving him shots.
14:05That's what happened last night.
14:07They played him like Draymond Green.
14:08They just said, please take the three.
14:10We'll pack it back in on everyone else.
14:12Please take the three.
14:13And I think that got him a little thrown off, and it showed.
14:17He was a minus 20 in the game.
14:20I just think in those situations, Pat Spencer's better.
14:22I think Kerr, as you pointed out, didn't make that decision.
14:26When Spencer was playing well in the fourth quarter of the Oklahoma City game, it goes to Pajemski.
14:31It does not work out.
14:32I don't think Kerr probably thought that was a great decision afterwards.
14:37And this time, he writes, Pajemski doesn't play in the fourth quarter at all.
14:41He either does Kaminga, and Moody barely played in the fourth quarter.
14:44Hard to argue with that, given what we were seeing.
14:46I think when Steph is out specifically, we will see Pat Spencer get a much larger role.
14:53Now, the Melton questions are very good, because that's the one that really could cut into Pajemski minutes.
15:00Because Melton can go guard people.
15:02And Melton can go, you know, shoulder himself into the lane and go try to score.
15:05Now, he was doing that.
15:06He wasn't scoring so much.
15:08But it's his first game, obviously, with a year off, more than a year off after the ACL, coming back from that.
15:15That could be a guy who can play with Steph Curry.
15:19And Pajemski is very valuable because he can play with Steph Curry.
15:24There becomes an interesting issue that I don't know that we don't know the answer to that.
15:30Steve Curry doesn't know the answer to that.
15:32Pajemski is never going to be a DMP.
15:33But I like the Anthony Melton a lot.
15:37Now, you've got to worry about him getting hurt.
15:38He's been hurt a lot the last few years.
15:41I just think there's a reason.
15:43You know, we joke about it.
15:45That six-game thing last year.
15:47Oh, my God.
15:47He was so great.
15:48Six games.
15:49Like, it's the greatest six-game run in the history of the NBA.
15:53But there's a reason why the Warriors keep saying.
15:55And they say this off the record.
15:56They say this all the time.
15:58That's what they say.
15:59Oh, my God.
16:00Did you remember how good he was in six games?
16:03That's also maybe a little bit of projecting on what they are not seeing from Pajemski.
16:09That's me reading it, not anyone else.
16:11Like, do you see what he does?
16:13He's aggressive.
16:14Do you see what he does with the ball?
16:15Do you see he's guarding people?
16:17He was guarding Maxie at the end when Maxie put up that shot that missed.
16:20Now, it's an air ball that, you know, Edgecombe picks up and scores and wins the game.
16:24But Melton was on Maxie.
16:26They're not putting anyone else on Maxie at that point.
16:31Interesting.
16:32That one I have no direct answer for other than I think Melton's going to be really good for them.
16:39And if you start looking at where the minutes are going to come, you know, that may be some from Hill.
16:44But I think Hill is dialed up to play some minutes every game because you just got to respect that three and his shot is beginning to come back.
16:52You look at some of the other minutes.
16:54I'm looking at Pajemski there.
16:56You know, it could drop his minutes and I will understand it if it happens.
17:01From Melton to Moody, Tim, what do you see from Moses Moody that's got Steve Kerr now a little bit cautious about playing him in high leverage spots?
17:11Yeah, I think, you know, they kind of were optimistically making Moody like he's our point of attack defender because they didn't have others.
17:18And, you know, you can't play Gary Payton all the time.
17:22You know, Kaminga could be it.
17:24I think Kaminga is actually pretty good at it, but he has other issues.
17:28I think Moody, they were hoping because he's not going to be a dribble initiator on offense.
17:32He can hit the spot of three, but not, you know, he's not a 39, 41, 44% guy.
17:37He's a little lower than that.
17:40They were hoping he could be their guy to guard point of attack, and he has not been that.
17:43He has, seems like he's playing slower recently.
17:47Maybe there's something physically, I don't know.
17:49I see that when he gets blown by, and he does, Kerr pulls him.
17:54He just pulls him because he doesn't want that to happen.
17:58You've got to be really hot offensively for Kerr to let that happen and keep you out there when you get blown by.
18:04It's probably been too much to ask of him.
18:07Well, D'Anthi Melton can do that.
18:09So Melton could get some of those minutes.
18:12Because Kaminga can do it.
18:14Maybe Kaminga gets back in at some of those minutes.
18:17Maybe Moody gets better at it.
18:19I think Moody's been up and down.
18:21He's had that injury to start the season.
18:24I think that's why we're really seeing, we're seeing Will Richard, you know, frankly,
18:27has closed over Moody a couple times in the last week and a half
18:30because he can stay in front of the ball a little bit better.
18:34They got options.
18:35I think Kerr will rotate through these.
18:38My sense is that they're going to go a little bit away from those three that we're talking.
18:46Not huge, not DMPs.
18:49But you've got to go where the guys are playing well.
18:51I mean, you're looking at Steph Curry saying, who do you want in there?
18:54I think he's going to say the guys who are producing is Will Richard.
18:58It's definitely Pat Spencer.
19:00It's going to be D. Anthony Melton.
19:02I think Heald is almost an automatic in there just because of his threat from the outside.
19:07And he competes on defense.
19:08He's not great, but he competes.
19:10The others, I don't know.
19:11They might be in that group.
19:13And as I wrote today, it's like you can say, you know what?
19:16It's everybody's in a group.
19:17We'll see who's out there.
19:18But that's not what, I mean, Kaminga's making $23.5 million.
19:22Pajamsi's going to want to make a lot of money coming up.
19:26And Moses Moody's making $13.
19:27Like, these are not random players.
19:30These are players you're supposed to turn it over to at some point.
19:33And it's not happening.
19:34And it's fair to say that.
19:36It's fair to put some responsibility on them.
19:39You know, we're not putting a responsibility on Guy Santos and Pat Spencer and whoever else
19:44because they're not making that kind of money and they're not having been talked about like that.
19:48Well, let's see what these guys can do under the pressure of some really interesting rotation decisions
19:57that Kerr's going to have when all the guys come back.
19:59You know, maybe there'll be injuries all over the season.
20:01That's always a possibility.
20:02And Kerr doesn't have to have the toughest answers.
20:06But I think you know where I'm leaning on this.
20:10And, you know, I don't think I would have a DMT Melton playing eight minutes a game.
20:15You know, I'd have him playing 20.
20:17And then GP2's got to play some minutes.
20:19It just becomes, I think, Will Richard's got to play some.
20:22It just, the math becomes the math.
20:25And some people are going to lose out on this.
20:27And unless we see more, you know, unless Moody and Pajemski and Kaminga start doing more,
20:35they're going to lose some minutes.
20:36Tim, it's going to be an interesting couple of months coming up on this.
20:40I know we'll chat about it again soon.
20:42Keep fighting the good fight.
20:44Thank you for coming on.
20:46You got it, guys.
20:46All right.
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