- 22 hours ago
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00:00So here's why that caught my ear for two reasons.
00:04What we just played for you and we'll play for you again.
00:07First of all, I think it's very, very eye-opening in terms of how the Warriors view this situation.
00:15And for me, that's kind of, that's what I'm getting at today.
00:19Like, I don't really care at this point to have another conversation about what each of us thinks about Jonathan and the situation.
00:33What's interesting to me is what the Warriors think about this.
00:37And I think I could easily argue that the only reason Jonathan still is getting chances is because he was the number seven overall pick.
00:46And because he flies, and because he flashes, and all of these things.
00:51In other words, they've given him a very, very long leash through some frustration because he's a big-time athlete and he's a big-time draft pick.
00:59Same thing happened this week somewhat under the radar with the San Francisco Giants.
01:05They absolutely, without argument, held on to Marco Luciano way too long.
01:11Because remember, they're evaluating behind the scenes.
01:14They know what they think.
01:16This is the advantage any organization has.
01:18You know your player better than everybody else.
01:22So, you have to find the right time to either stick with or give up on a player.
01:29And you have to, to me, you've got to weave into all of that.
01:32What does the rest of the league think?
01:34What might you be able to get for them?
01:36If you were out on Marco Luciano, then the Giants absolutely should have been looking to deal him two years ago.
01:46Because you could have really gotten the league interested.
01:50They hung on.
01:51They hung on.
01:52He's got a cement on his hand type of a glove.
01:55And the next thing you know, they're releasing him outright.
01:59Yeah.
01:59And he's getting picked up by the Pirates for nothing.
02:01And they got nothing for him.
02:02Yeah.
02:02They got nothing back.
02:03Even though he had his best year last year as a minor leaguer.
02:07He had 23 home runs.
02:08And he drove in 66.
02:10He had an OPS of 749.
02:11Not great in a hitter-friendly league.
02:13But he did enough to where you could have at least pretended that you liked him.
02:18And, you know, could have gotten something for him.
02:20And you're right about that.
02:21The Kaminga one for me is different because now he's making enough money to where you can trade him.
02:26If you keep his value at a point where some team would want him.
02:30And I do think that there will be teams that want him.
02:33Just based on the fact that not all 29 other teams are run very well.
02:39So there's going to be a team, whether it's Sacramento or Brooklyn,
02:42somebody that's going to be completely enamored with the ha-ha.
02:46And they're going to think that, oh, man, we can use him the way they're not using him.
02:50Maybe.
02:51So I do think that he's got more of a resale, a trade value than Luciano did.
02:55Oh, no doubt.
02:56A guy who never even came in the bigs and did anything ever.
02:59No doubt.
02:59But I think that intrigue that you're seeing from other teams that you have to sort of like.
03:05And I'm not saying this is easy in the moment because everybody's emotionally attached.
03:08And you don't want to make the wrong move.
03:10You don't want to give up on someone too early.
03:12You know, Zach Wheeler.
03:15You don't want to get rid of someone.
03:17Kyle Harrison.
03:17Yeah, you don't want it well.
03:18That one's TBD.
03:20I'm talking about you give up on someone and then they become a star.
03:22That's everyone's fear, right?
03:24You give up on someone.
03:25If Luciano, if he's playing left field for the Pirates in two years and hitting 30 bombs a year,
03:31we've got a problem.
03:33You've got a problem.
03:33Yep.
03:34Because that hurts.
03:36That hurts an organization.
03:38But I don't think that there's, and I understand the salary matching thing,
03:42there's no doubt in my mind that two years ago you could have gotten the league really excited
03:50about a 21-year-old flying Jonathan Kaminga.
03:55If you had come to terms with the idea that you were out on him, and they didn't, and they weren't,
04:03and I understand that, but we're obviously on a fast track now to that being the wrong decision,
04:11holding on to him too long.
04:13And again, that's because he's a first-round draft pick.
04:17You know, like if Pat Spencer had come in these last four games and played like crap,
04:21then how much longer is his leash going to be?
04:25It's going to be very, very short.
04:27Again, listen to this.
04:28So yesterday, this is with Dib's question, with Steve Kerr, following the Pat Spencer comment
04:35that he's part of the Stay Ready crew.
04:37Pat Spencer joined Steining and Guru earlier today, and he talked about being part of the Stay Ready crew,
04:42where you just never know when you were going to tab them to come in and play.
04:47Is Jonathan Kaminga cut out to be one of those Stay Ready guys in case that he happens to fall out of the rotation?
04:54Well, you know, he's obviously a guy with a lot of ambition, which I love.
05:01He wants to be a star.
05:02He's got the ability that gives him that hope and gives us that hope.
05:08But there has to be a, you know, consistent level of play in order to achieve that.
05:13And, you know, you've seen Jimmy really take him under his wing this year.
05:18And I love what the veteran players have done, Draymond and Steph.
05:22You know, they're all really fighting for him in his corner.
05:26So the potential is there.
05:27But there has to be a level of consistency, especially at this level.
05:33I mean, we're talking about the best basketball league in the world.
05:37And so the consistency has to be there for us.
05:41And, you know, if it's not there, then it makes it much more difficult for me to just to give him consistent minutes and give him starts.
05:49So that's what we're asking for is a more consistent level of production.
05:54I mean, these conversations get political.
05:56There's no way around it.
05:57I mean, did the 49ers, did they move on from Trey Lance at the right time?
06:01Probably.
06:02Or they waited too long?
06:03I don't think they waited too long.
06:04I've got a fifth rounder for him.
06:06Right, which is probably more than you would get now if he still was there.
06:10That's fair.
06:11I mean, I think that what they got was way more than what I expected them to get.
06:16And the fifth round pick is not a lot.
06:18Was it a fifth or fourth?
06:19Was it a fifth or fourth?
06:20I think it was fifth.
06:21I thought it was a fourth.
06:22But when you say fifth, it actually resonates that that actually was the right move.
06:27And you could look at James Wiseman in the similar way.
06:30And, yeah, did they move off of James Wiseman too soon or too late?
06:33It was probably about where it was going to be.
06:36The interesting one for me, though, is Jordan Poole where they got a fourth.
06:40Fourth round pick.
06:41I mean, that's awesome.
06:43That's a win.
06:44That's a win.
06:45Yes, it is.
06:46I believe the pick became Alec Mustafa eventually.
06:48No way.
06:49Yeah.
06:49I didn't know that.
06:50Yeah.
06:51Nice.
06:52Very nice.
06:53That's actually pretty slick.
06:54That's a win for Lynch right there.
06:55Anyway, as you were.
06:56Go ahead.
06:56Jordan Poole.
06:57Like, you traded Jordan Poole.
06:59Was it too soon?
07:00Or was it too late?
07:01It probably was right where it had to be because of everything else that took place.
07:06And you ended up attaching two picks to it, and Baldwin Jr., and Ryan Rollins, and you
07:11got back Chris Paul.
07:13So, the trade itself was a loss, but you did the deal when you did the deal because you
07:18kind of had to.
07:19You got out from under the salary is what you got.
07:21You did.
07:21I know people still want to say.
07:23But you took on Chris Paul, and then that turned into nothing.
07:25For you.
07:25So, yeah, you ended up giving up two players, two picks for a Chris Paul rental, which, you
07:31know, got you nowhere.
07:32Right.
07:32So, but as far as your point about the timing.
07:34It released the salary, though, that allowed you to get Jimmy Butler.
07:36Right.
07:37But the timing of the trade was such that you kind of had no choice.
07:41This time with Kaminga, could you have done it a year ago, two years ago?
07:45Maybe.
07:46But now I do look at the same thing you were talking about with salary.
07:49The salary slot that you can get back is a real thing.
07:52I mean, I look at this entire subject matter, and to me, it is very, very tied to, for example,
07:59what you and I have called draftism surrounding Brock Purdy.
08:03And here's what I mean by that.
08:05The reason I find Brock Purdy to be so polarizing is because there are so many people who still
08:12want to sort of massage their own original opinion.
08:17And I get this.
08:18This is very human being-esque.
08:20We all have an opinion, and we want it to be right.
08:24So when it starts getting proven wrong over time, we start looking for evidence of, no, no, no.
08:30No, no, no.
08:30It's still right.
08:32And so when Brock gets passed over a bunch of times and becomes a seventh-round draft pick,
08:37it's a very slow process for him to convince the world that he's actually good.
08:44And then there's the opposite.
08:46The reverse is true about first-rounders.
08:48They will come in, and you're like, that dude's going to rock this league.
08:53And it's a very slow process to the realization of, no, he's not.
08:59That's why a first-rounder, Trey Lance, third team already.
09:03If Trey Lance had been drafted in the fifth round, do you want to know what he'd be doing right now?
09:09Not football.
09:10Not football.
09:11I mean, he might be.
09:12I doubt it.
09:13He could be a practice squad guy, or he could be a backup.
09:16But you have to show something.
09:18If you're a fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh-rounder, when you come into camp, you have to show them something right now.
09:23You have to prove the original opinion wrong in order to stay.
09:28The opposite is true.
09:29If you're a first, second, third-rounder, or whatever, or in NBA circles, a first-rounder, or maybe even just a lottery pick,
09:36you almost have to repeatedly prove them wrong before they're going to move on from you.
09:43So that's why I get to this point where I'm sort of done hearing from all the people who are like, gosh, they just won't give him a chance.
09:52I'm like, he's still here.
09:54And now he's making $23 million.
09:57They actually have been very stubborn to give up on him, is the argument I would make.
10:01Well, they've been smart to not give up on him.
10:03And that's fine.
10:03Because you're not going to get anything back for him.
10:06If you trade him last year, and you assign and trade or whatever, you're going to get half the value.
10:11So at that point, you were pot-committed, in my opinion.
10:15And if you really wanted to get something for him, you would assign him to an extension after year three,
10:20and then trade it in like you did Jordan Poole, which is why the Jordan Poole thing,
10:24even though it looks like a catastrophe, you give up two picks, two players, and you got Chris Paul,
10:30big whoop, a salary slot.
10:32You still gave up more than you got back.
10:34And you could have done the same thing with Kaminga, but you didn't.
10:37And maybe because Kaminga didn't want to sign, or maybe you still thought that, hey, he's got that ha-ha.
10:43And the thing about Kaminga is, at his best, he gives you something that nobody else on your team can.
10:49At his best.
10:50He can do things that nobody else can do.
10:52I'll agree with that.
10:53And so that's where it becomes so tempting.
10:54It's intoxicating.
10:56There's no question.
10:57But I would go back even further than that.
10:59I don't think, like, you're talking about Jordan Poole, and that one was a situation where the whole league knew,
11:05boy, they're all in trouble there.
11:07Nobody's getting along, and there's a lot of tension.
11:10Go back to before the restricted free agency with Jonathan.
11:13Dude, people would have been very excited to acquire a 21-year-old with that kind of raw athleticism and intrigue attached to him.
11:24You probably would have been the team receiving the picks in return, especially because the salary was so low.
11:32You probably could.
11:33And I get why the Warriors didn't do it.
11:35Again, I fully understand, but I'm also, like, I'm looking at now, and the bottom line is the bottom line.
11:44I can sit here and understand why you made the move, but the bottom line is the bottom line.
11:49You held on him too long.
11:50Because now the value is going down, now the questions are coming up, and we've even had those conversations with people in the know who are saying,
12:02you know, for example, Miles Turner, that came up a couple times this week.
12:06He makes only a couple million bucks more than Jonathan Kaminga.
12:10Guess what you would need to do now in order to trade?
12:13Attach picks.
12:13You've got to attach picks now.
12:15Yep.
12:15Now, you're the one that's groveling for the deal, as opposed to the other way around.
12:20That's all I'm talking about.
12:22This is a very inexact science with all of these situations.
12:25It's very tough, but when you're an early round draft pick, a team is very prone to holding on to you too long
12:32and giving you too many chances, and I base that not on your opinion or mine.
12:37I base it on theirs.
12:39That's what matters here.
12:40What matters is what does the organization think about the player,
12:44and Steve admitted to us yesterday, this has been going on for three years.
12:49They've been having these thoughts.
12:51Right.
12:52I mean, Brandon Iyuk, same thing, where you held on to him too long,
12:56and so put aside the injury, although that is a big part of it,
12:59but you gave him a contract, and he finally came in,
13:03and he played about three or four good games, and he got hurt,
13:06and now his rehab was not to the point where you liked it,
13:11and so now you voided his deal,
13:12and no one's going to trade for Brandon Iyuk at this point,
13:15so you're going to get nothing for him.
13:17This has gone on almost seemingly at every trade deadline with the Giants that I can think of.
13:22You know, people will say, oh, you trade Mad Bum, trade Rodon, trade whoever,
13:28trade Robbie Ray, because you're not going anywhere,
13:30and sometimes those things are proven absolutely correct.
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