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00:00Is Pat Spencer more talented than Jonathan Kaminga?
00:03Stop.
00:04Well, no, I really am fascinated by the definition of the word.
00:10I mean, one of them is a current rotational piece in the NBA,
00:16and one of them's not.
00:17Right.
00:18So I don't care which one's taller, which one's got more muscles,
00:22which one jumps higher, which one was drafted higher.
00:26Hell, we coined draftism on this show.
00:28I don't like it.
00:30Like, you don't need all of these measurables to be talented,
00:37and measurables do not guarantee talent.
00:42So I'm not, listen, Jonathan Kaminga, they're all incredible,
00:46and he has a tremendous amount of talent, and that is well proven.
00:52But I think there are a lot of other people who have talent as well,
00:56and we just, we don't call it that because we are so fixated basically on what I find
01:05to maybe not even be the appetizer.
01:07You know what I mean?
01:09This would be like looking at a menu at a restaurant and then just freaking out
01:12about the way it's written as opposed to how it tastes when you get it.
01:16Like, I don't care.
01:19You know, go to Cheesecake Factory.
01:21That thing's got every single country and every meal is all in there.
01:26What if that was all you needed?
01:28And then you just go home.
01:29It's free.
01:30Boy, hon, that menu, whew, it's incredible.
01:35Right.
01:35You know, a lot of words, and a lot of pages, all kinds of stuff in there,
01:39but you never bother to find out, how does it taste?
01:44Is it working for you?
01:45Right.
01:46Does it feel like it's worth what you spent?
01:49It wasn't Saturday night.
01:50You know?
01:51I won't say where we went, but for the first time in maybe eight years,
01:55I sent the entree back.
01:57No.
01:57I never, ever, ever do that.
02:02Like, if it's some part, I'm going to eat it.
02:05It's the way I was raised.
02:07What if something's wrong with it?
02:08Well, something was wrong with this.
02:10It was wildly overcooked, and it was like eating sandpaper.
02:16And like three bites in, I was like, I can't even do this.
02:19What if they bring you the wrong thing?
02:20You send that back, don't you?
02:22Sure.
02:22Okay.
02:22But that's not sending something back.
02:24That's like, hey, you messed up.
02:25Right.
02:25Like, I ordered a turkey club, and you sent me a BLT.
02:28Like, okay, this is the wrong one.
02:30This was what I ordered, but it was just woefully, woefully unsatisfactory.
02:35Text me the name of the place.
02:37I will.
02:37All right.
02:37Yeah.
02:38And then I'll say it on the air.
02:39You won't.
02:39No.
02:40I actually asked the server.
02:43I said, is the chef, is he new?
02:45And she's like, yeah, he is.
02:47Oh.
02:47I said, go on.
02:49Okay.
02:49Yeah.
02:50Well, but you go back in a couple of months, you won't be new anymore.
02:52Never.
02:53All right.
02:53Never again.
02:54Wow.
02:55And I didn't yelp him.
02:56No.
02:57But I might.
02:57You will.
02:59Grudge holder.
03:00All right.
03:00Let's go to Vince in the city.
03:02Hi, Vince.
03:03What are you doing?
03:03I just found my way home sitting in traffic.
03:09But, you know, so I want to talk about this whole JK thing, right?
03:13So, at the beginning of the season, I was almost ready to walk back the JK knock that
03:20I had against him because for those first five games, he played within the system, he
03:25was in the flow of the offense, and he was doing everything that it seemed like the
03:29Warriors needed him to do.
03:30There's no doubt about it.
03:32Dude is a super freak athlete.
03:34But I feel like once Steph got hurt and he had to take those minutes, he reverted back
03:40to how he's been the last season, even two seasons ago, which actually now thinking about
03:46it reminded me a lot of Clay in the last few years when he came back, where he was really
03:50pressing and really hunting his shot and was hunting his and was no longer really in
03:56the flow of the offense, which kind of screwed everything up.
03:59Now, Clay is Clay and JK is JK.
04:01So, one's going to get way more of a leash than the other.
04:05As far as talent goes, you cannot argue that Pat Spencer is not more skilled than JK because
04:13he is.
04:14He's got a handle.
04:16He's got a jump shot.
04:17His decision making is better.
04:19He takes care of the ball.
04:20He plays defense.
04:21He gives you effort.
04:23JK seems to have only relied on his athleticism to get him by.
04:26I don't know what he's been working on in the off seasons that he's had because his game
04:31is still the same.
04:32Mid-range, post up, spin move, spin move, back a guy down, try to get to the lane, doesn't
04:37work, take a bad shot.
04:39I don't know what else there is that he's changed since he's came into the league.
04:44Everybody's been waiting for him to hit that next level, and I don't know if he's going
04:49to hit that next level, at least here.
04:52Send him somewhere to Washington, right, where he can just get shine and go shoot a bunch
04:56of shots and whatever.
04:58He's not going to win any basketball games that way.
05:00He's going to get good numbers, but I don't know what he's actually going to do to help
05:03a team win.
05:05Vince, thanks.
05:05I mean, I think the only fair thing to say, and we can all have our opinion about what
05:11it would look like somewhere else, I don't know.
05:14I don't know what it would look like.
05:15But similar to how Vince is like, he's not going to win somewhere else, I don't know that
05:21you can definitively say that yet, but also you cannot definitively say what I hear a
05:25lot of other people say, which is, man, you know he's going to average 25 a night somewhere
05:29else.
05:29You do not.
05:31You do not know that.
05:34You just don't.
05:34You don't.
05:35And now Vince said something.
05:37He didn't even use the word talent.
05:38He said Pat Spencer is more skilled than Jonathan Kaminga.
05:44I don't know if I would use that word, but I understand where he's coming from.
05:50Again, like, are we just talking about the baseline of things you see when someone walks
05:56into the room, or does it actually matter to you how this all manifests itself on the
06:00court?
06:02Well, I mean, talent and skill.
06:04If you want to, like, really get into the words, to me, talent is much more about the
06:09raw athletic gifts and skill is more about refinement.
06:12And you know what?
06:13Pat Spencer should be more skilled than Jonathan Kaminga.
06:17Pat Spencer, born on July 4th.
06:20The next time we celebrate America's birthday and we celebrate Pat Spencer's birthday, he's
06:25going to be 30.
06:27Pat Spencer will be 30 when America turns, I guess that'll be 100 or 200 and whatever it
06:34is, 200 and something.
06:35217.
06:36200 and...
06:371776.
06:39So 250.
06:40Ooh, yeah.
06:42250.
06:42Ooh, that's a big one.
06:44250.
06:44What are we all doing?
06:45Yeah.
06:46I mean...
06:46What are we doing?
06:47We're going to throw America a big old party.
06:49Grandy is pumping his fist like he's going to go to an Oregon game or something like that.
06:53They don't play in July.
06:54America's going to be 250 and he'll be 30.
06:56So should Pat Spencer be more skilled, quote unquote, than Kaminga?
07:01Absolutely.
07:02He played four years of college lacrosse.
07:05He played a year of D1 basketball.
07:07He played high school basketball and he's almost 30 years old.
07:10So if you want to talk about skill, is he more refined than Kaminga?
07:14Yeah.
07:15He better be at 30.
07:17See, that's interesting though.
07:18I could very...
07:19I don't know if there's a should.
07:21You know what I mean?
07:21Is he more refined?
07:22Is he more skilled?
07:23Jonathan Kaminga's had way more NBA minutes.
07:26Way more NBA coaching.
07:29Way more people focused on his outcome.
07:32No?
07:34Yes, but...
07:35I mean, way more investment in terms of time and money and all of those things.
07:39I get that, but also, Pat Spencer had way more probably high school and youth basketball experience than Kaminga had.
07:47I don't know what Kaminga did when he was growing up in the Congo.
07:51Yeah, I don't even know when he first picked up a ball.
07:53I have no idea how far back that goes.
07:55But, you know, a lot of people are always like, well, Jonathan didn't play college basketball.
08:00Well, Pat, you know, I mean, what was he doing?
08:04Like, so...
08:05He was playing lacrosse.
08:06Yeah, he was playing lacrosse.
08:07He was probably playing intramurals at Loyola of Maryland.
08:11I mean, honestly...
08:13That does not count.
08:14I played intramurals for all of college.
08:16Right, and you're more skilled at the end of your college than you were probably at the beginning of it.
08:20I can take second place in your knockout tournament if you want me to, but that's about as far as I can go.
08:25You better make sure that Grandy gets a sick day next year.
08:28Give yourself a chance to win that thing.
08:29We're gunning for you so hard.
08:30There's two people in my life who have three-peat on their brain, and everything around them is...
08:37My son, the family league in fantasy, has only...
08:40This is its third year.
08:41He's won both years.
08:42Abe or Jude?
08:43Abe.
08:43Okay.
08:44And he's the two-seed this year, so he's...
08:46Oh, Peacock, and I don't even know why the rest of you are coming to the playoffs.
08:50Wow.
08:50Like, and then Grandy over here, which will be next March, is going to be going for a knockout tournament three-peat.
08:59Yep.
08:59And same thing where, like, both events have only been around for three years.
09:03Like, no one in the world has won one of these, other than those two humans.
09:08Yeah.
09:09That's it.
09:10And we've got to put an end to it.
09:12Yeah.
09:13Yep.
09:13Stay strong, Abe.
09:15Stay strong.
09:16Hey, invite Brooks to the knockout tournament.
09:20Yeah.
09:21Take that, Grandy.
09:23Brooks.
09:24Go back to talking about coming back.
09:25Survivor champion.
09:26That's right.
09:27Odyssey.
09:28San Francisco.
09:29And he is a person.
09:31Potentially.
09:31I introduced you, him, to both of you guys.
09:33There is a person.
09:34I don't know if that's actually Brooks.
09:36Yeah, it is.
09:37All right.
09:37But, anyway.
09:38He could be AI.
09:39You're listening to 95.7 The Game, KGMZ FM and HD1 San Francisco and Odyssey Sports Station.
09:44Home of the Golden State Warriors and Valkyries.
09:46Always live on the free.
09:47Odyssey app.
09:47Coming to you live from the Laughing Monk Studios.
09:49It's also a new hour, which means sometime here in this 4 o'clock hour, we'll have yet another keyword for you to try to win.
09:56Text in and win one of those Steph Draymond or Jimmy Butler, the town brown jerseys that are so popular right now.
10:04We've got one of each.
10:05And then, by the way, on Wednesday, we're going to have some Pat Spencer versions, too.
10:09So, lots to give away this week right here on 95.7 The Game.
10:12But, back to the phones.
10:14How about John in the city?
10:15John, thank you for calling.
10:16Thank you for waiting.
10:17What's up?
10:19Hey, what's going on, guys?
10:20I want to talk about the Warriors lineup when the Stars come back.
10:26To be honest, I think we have the pieces, but I don't trust Steve Kerr to put us in the right positions.
10:33And the reason being is because he's so in love with the four-guard lineups that defensively and rebounding perspectives, we're just not going to win against bigger teams.
10:45And then, the fact that we have posts, Guy Santos, and a lot of players with length, and Steve Kerr does not play them as often unless there's an emergency, it's hard for me to trust Kerr to put us in the right position to win once our rotational players are back.
11:11So, I wanted to get your opinion on that.
11:13And then, lastly, I wanted to talk about the reason why Dub Nation despises Pods is not because of Pods.
11:20It's because Kerr gives them so much of a leash compared to Moses Moody, compared to Jonathan Kaminga.
11:27When did you ever see this guy get a DNP for playing badly, whereas you have Kaminga playing two bad games and he has a DNP?
11:37So, for all of the Warriors fans that I talk to, it's because of the love that Steve Kerr gives them.
11:44It's because of the love and the leash that the team gives them over the other players.
11:48And it's just not fair.
11:49Yeah, John, and I don't think fairness has anything to do with it.
11:53I appreciate the call.
11:54It's a good call.
11:55I think that we understand the dynamic in full.
11:58I totally get that.
11:59I don't think it's personal with Pods, although there is a little bit.
12:03The other reason people don't like Pods is because he's said some stuff that annoys people, that he wants to be better than Steph Curry someday.
12:11It rubs people the wrong way, and I totally get that.
12:14But that dynamic about, like, I think you're free to have the opinion that the Warriors play Pods too much,
12:20or they let them play through too many things.
12:23I don't think that's a crazy opinion.
12:25What I don't ever understand is why it gets compared directly to other players who play different positions.
12:30A big part of why Pods plays so much is because there has not been another option at his position often in his career.
12:40And the good news for you Pods haters is we have now suddenly arrived at the most other options that Steve Kerr has ever had at that position
12:49in the name of D'Anthony Melton, and maybe at times even Pat Spencer.
12:54We'll see about that when Steph returns.
12:57But I think if you're looking close, you've noticed that over the last week or so, Pods minutes have gone down.
13:02Yeah, a little bit.
13:03And, I mean, they'll go down more, like you're saying, when you have additional people in that spot.
13:08But the reason why Steve Kerr plays Pods as much as he does is because of the three-man combination stats.
13:15And, you know, Steve's the one who got me a couple years ago to really look at this data as far as, like, why he does what he does.
13:21And if you look at their plus-minus per 100 possessions, the lineups, the three-man lineups, Pods is in the No. 3, the No. 6, and the No. 7 lineup.
13:31He's in three of the top seven three-man combinations.
13:35And, yeah, Draymond is in five of them.
13:38Steph Curry is not surprising in all but one of them.
13:42And so when you look at those combos, like Steph and Draymond, of course, they're going to be in most of them.
13:47Jimmy Butler's only in one of them, surprisingly, of the three-man combos.
13:52But Pods is a guy who plays well with everyone.
13:55And Kaminga, I do think, and even Moses Moody to a lesser extent, they do their best with certain other guys.
14:02Yeah, no doubt.
14:03And, by the way, that applies to the first question he had, which is not trusting Steve Kerr because Steve always apparently forces the small lineup in there.
14:11And I'm thinking two things, which is, one, again, I don't think he really has that many other options often.
14:19You know, I know people are like, no, that guy's tall.
14:21Well, is he good?
14:23Like, do you want Trace Jackson Davis to get in 34 minutes because he's tall?
14:28Is that what you guys are suggesting?
14:29And secondly, I know that they're getting old, and so there is an expiration date on this at some point.
14:36But when people go, you're never going to beat a tall team with that lineup, they just did.
14:42They just won a playoff series against the longest, lankiest, youngest team in the whole NBA earlier this year.
14:50So, like, I know that there are warts on that theory, but you can't say, oh, the Warriors automatically cannot do that with a small lineup.
15:00They might.
15:00They might, and they have in the past.
15:04Yeah, they probably won't going forward.
15:07I mean, because these other teams now are as athletic, if not more, and they can shoot the three as well, if not better, than the Warriors can.
15:16The big edge they used to have is no longer there.
15:18So now you're saying, all right, Draymond, you're 6'5", go out there and guard Wenbin Yama, go guard Jokic, and, you know, go guard Zubats,
15:26and all the rest of the other talented bigs now, it used to be that Draymond could just guard a big stiff on the other team.
15:33But now these other teams, the bigs they have are not stiffs anymore.
15:37But don't forget what Draymond did do against Victor Wenbin Yama for two games.
15:40Like, he was absolutely fantastic.
15:43And what he did against Shane Goon last year in the playoffs.
15:45Yep.
15:46I mean, I know that it's getting fewer and far between because he, you know, he's, I should say fewer and further between,
15:53but, like, he's getting older.
15:55Yeah, yeah, it's not going to be as consistent.
15:58So I hear that.
15:59Let's do Mark in Kentfield.
16:01Hi, Mark.
16:02Thanks for calling.
16:02What's up?
16:04Not much.
16:05I just wanted to touch upon what you guys are talking about, talent versus skill.
16:09I think it's a fascinating conversation.
16:10I think Vince, a couple of calls ago, is spot on.
16:14With talent versus skill, I think that natural talent, physically,
16:20Kaminga is obviously superior to Pat Spencer.
16:23But skill-wise, Pat Spencer is far beyond Kaminga.
16:26Skill is something that's acquired, worked on through discipline, work ethic,
16:31and obviously Pat Spencer has worked on that.
16:34And measuring heart and how you analyze a player or drafting a player,
16:39I think the Warriors have got this better than most teams.
16:43And there's a pattern.
16:43If you look at the big three, Curry, Thompson, Draymond, Curry, his dad was in the NBA.
16:51Thompson, his dad was in the NBA.
16:53Draymond, I don't think he had a parent in the NBA.
16:55But in terms of competitiveness, all three were ultra-competitive.
16:59Two of them had parents.
17:00GP two.
17:01Dad was in the NBA.
17:02And all four of them are team players, play with heart,
17:07and do whatever they need to do to make the team win.
17:10And there's just something with the psychological components of this.
17:15If you compare, like, Kaminga to Wiggins or, you know,
17:20players that just the body language is not there.
17:22They don't have a hatred for losing.
17:25I think there's something there.
17:27And the Warriors have done a great job at that.
17:29And you're not always going to be able to get those kind of players in a draft.
17:32But there's something psychological with Kaminga.
17:35And, you know, the Giants did this in 10, 12, and 14.
17:38Not the best on paper.
17:40But they had good humans.
17:42They had people that were dedicated to the team and to winning.
17:45Well, I think, Mark, thanks.
17:46I think it's this.
17:47Like, I don't, you know, when he says, you know,
17:50the Giants had good people who were dedicated.
17:51I don't think Jonathan's, like, a bad dude.
17:53I don't think he's not dedicated to winning.
17:55I think that there is a consistent dynamic.
17:59That is present, especially in the NBA.
18:01With young players who do have a lot of raw gifts.
18:06And, therefore, what they see.
18:09And we would all act this way, by the way.
18:11What they see at the, you know, with the carrot on the string.
18:16What they see is just millions and millions and millions of dollars.
18:19Yep.
18:19And it's very difficult to put that aside and say, no, would you please fit in with our
18:26already set team concept?
18:29So, why are you seeing certain warrior players overachieve who are kind of underachievers?
18:36Well, Pat Spencer does not think he's going to get a max deal in two years.
18:40And Guy Santa, same thing.
18:41Right.
18:41They are just like, we'll do that.
18:44GP2, yeah.
18:45We'll do that.
18:46I'm fighting for my life.
18:47We just want to exist in the NBA.
18:49But Jordan Poole and Jonathan Kaminga and these guys, they see something very, very different.
18:56And they chase it.
18:57And sometimes there are butting heads when that happens.
19:00Yeah, especially when you chasing it involves you, you know, doing things that are outside
19:05of what the team really wants you to do or what the team thinks you can do to help them win.
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