Beyond The Tape : Monday 20th November 2023

CCNTV6

Watch Beyond The Tape : Monday 20th November 2023 - CCNTV6 on Dailymotion

Transcript

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00:02:09 Very special good afternoon, Trinidad and Tobago.

00:02:11 I'm Arlan Hopkins, and welcome to another program

00:02:14 of The Onward Tape on TV6.

00:02:16 A very special good afternoon to our friends

00:02:18 in the US and the UK, in Canada, in South Africa,

00:02:21 in the Middle East, all across the Caribbean,

00:02:24 and the brothers and sisters in Grenada,

00:02:26 who they are always locked on to the program.

00:02:29 So a very special good afternoon to all of you.

00:02:33 The senior superintendent of the IATF, Roger D. Alexander,

00:02:36 is here.

00:02:38 A very popular name in the media these days.

00:02:41 Why you say that?

00:02:42 I am not popular.

00:02:43 A very popular name.

00:02:44 All I do is speak the truth.

00:02:46 And if the truth affects persons,

00:02:48 then at least let the truth be known.

00:02:51 All right.

00:02:52 OK.

00:02:52 How are you?

00:02:53 I'm good.

00:02:54 What happened this weekend, boy?

00:02:56 Everything.

00:02:57 Besides crime, well, this morning I was--

00:03:02 Wait, listen.

00:03:02 I have a question to ask you, though.

00:03:05 Did you see by chance a glimpse of this universe project,

00:03:11 Mr. Hopkins?

00:03:13 No.

00:03:14 I've lost interest in it.

00:03:16 Mr. Hopkins, this thing--

00:03:17 I'm sorry, but I've lost interest.

00:03:18 I am taken back by it.

00:03:23 Because I mean, a long time you look at it.

00:03:26 Yeah.

00:03:26 I was impressed by a particular lady

00:03:28 because she came how she was, all thick and all of that.

00:03:32 And she came and she represented--

00:03:34 They have thick women in this universe,

00:03:36 in this universe project now?

00:03:37 Yeah.

00:03:37 There was one in particular.

00:03:39 Wow.

00:03:39 She was woo.

00:03:40 She was woo.

00:03:41 I was not aware.

00:03:43 But then, Mr. Hopkins, we understand

00:03:45 that there were some two persons, I think, in there

00:03:49 that were once men and now they were women.

00:03:52 Ah, well, then you can't have them in the competition.

00:03:55 Well, everybody thought that until one of them

00:03:58 made the first 20, I think.

00:03:59 Let me step away from it.

00:04:04 I know the behavior of this.

00:04:05 I know the behavior of this.

00:04:06 I want to finish on me.

00:04:08 But you know, someone said, Mr. Hopkins,

00:04:10 and I don't know where this is going.

00:04:14 I am confused.

00:04:14 It has already gone.

00:04:16 Because the Olympics will come very soon,

00:04:19 and then the football and all of that.

00:04:21 And then, Marlon, one of these days

00:04:23 you're going to tell me that you should be playing

00:04:25 on the national netball team because you feel

00:04:26 you get up in the morning.

00:04:27 Not me.

00:04:28 I'm too short.

00:04:28 Oh, OK.

00:04:29 And all of that.

00:04:30 And next, Jackie wants to be a male police officer.

00:04:33 What can I do?

00:04:34 I don't want to respond.

00:04:38 I don't want to respond either.

00:04:39 But you understand where this is going, Mr. Hopkins.

00:04:41 Now, I am asking the question this morning.

00:04:45 This situation here, is it confusing

00:04:49 to our young generation who seems not to understand what

00:04:53 is really taking place?

00:04:54 And then here is question two.

00:04:57 Mr. Hopkins, no longer can you really leave your children

00:05:02 to look at television by themselves.

00:05:05 You have to have in your possession

00:05:08 a remote control like this.

00:05:10 Because at a moment's notice, you have to press.

00:05:17 And it goes all the way from the once famous Sesame Street

00:05:23 that we used to watch to everything.

00:05:26 Yeah.

00:05:27 And again, as an adult, I have choices.

00:05:34 Yes, you do.

00:05:34 And I want the public to know that I

00:05:36 have choices as an adult. Whether they are good,

00:05:40 they are bad, or indifferent.

00:05:41 Choices.

00:05:43 However, young persons who are guided by their parents,

00:05:49 why are we giving them that situation without giving them

00:05:55 the choice to make?

00:05:56 Well, I think that my position is--

00:06:01 and this is a general position--

00:06:04 I think that sometimes we tend to expose children

00:06:10 to certain types of influences at a too young age

00:06:15 that they just don't understand.

00:06:17 And I don't think that they are mentally able for it.

00:06:20 Confused participants.

00:06:22 And therefore, they cannot make an informed decision.

00:06:26 No, they can't.

00:06:27 In fact, the decision I think that they would be making

00:06:30 is a decision being influenced by an adult.

00:06:36 And I think that is unfortunate.

00:06:38 And I think that is robbing the child of not only his youth,

00:06:45 but it is a disservice to that child in that because

00:06:51 of the influence, the child's influence, and also

00:06:57 the lack of experience and maturity by that child,

00:07:02 it is a disservice that the child is being

00:07:05 put into a particular direction.

00:07:08 I said all of that for you to--

00:07:11 I would like you, Mr. Hopkins, to bring someone

00:07:13 on your program who might be able to share something that

00:07:21 could start to, in some way or another,

00:07:23 know early in the early stages to redirect this conversation

00:07:28 that we have in here, Mr. Hopkins,

00:07:30 because it is going, going, gone.

00:07:35 And the difficulty in it is, as I said before,

00:07:38 sometimes you're looking--

00:07:39 I was looking at television the other day, me and my two dogs.

00:07:43 So I sat on the chair like this, one on the left,

00:07:45 one on the right.

00:07:47 And we are looking at television.

00:07:49 And then in a Christmas show, two male persons

00:07:59 were locked in lips.

00:08:02 And I held onto my two dog eyes like this because--

00:08:06 and then I remember they were just animals.

00:08:08 It just goes to show if I had--

00:08:11 What did you do?

00:08:11 If I have young persons next to me or children sitting next

00:08:15 to me, what do you say when that happens

00:08:18 and you have to explain as an adult, as a parent, Mr.

00:08:21 Hopkins?

00:08:21 And that is the predicament that they're leaving us in.

00:08:24 I have no problem with persons having or wanting

00:08:27 to make decisions as an adult.

00:08:28 And I see that again.

00:08:29 And you know, let's go and say, Alexander, cut off the piece.

00:08:33 But there are times when we need to allow the children to grow

00:08:36 up and then make decisions--

00:08:41 And if I have a child, I want my child

00:08:44 to be raised the way that I want my child to be.

00:08:47 Exactly.

00:08:49 So you're right.

00:08:50 I, too, do have a choice, just as everyone else has a choice.

00:08:56 And everyone's choices should be respected

00:09:01 once they are legal choices.

00:09:02 Once they are legal choices.

00:09:05 And therefore, my choice or choices must also be supported.

00:09:10 Exactly.

00:09:11 Or respected, rather.

00:09:12 You don't have to support it, but you should respect it.

00:09:15 I just want to, at this time, move away from that.

00:09:18 Because I know that this is a tense conversation.

00:09:23 Some persons never want to go down that particular road.

00:09:25 Alexander, leave it alone.

00:09:27 When things affect you as a citizen,

00:09:31 you must want to speak to it.

00:09:34 Because we sit here sometimes and we do nothing.

00:09:36 We find it is OK.

00:09:39 But deep down inside, it bothers you.

00:09:41 And it is bothering your children.

00:09:42 And they don't know how to approach you, to ask you,

00:09:44 Daddy, Mommy, what is happening here?

00:09:47 Why is this so?

00:09:48 And sometimes I am seeing where we at home--

00:09:54 I grew up in an environment where--

00:09:56 again, I grew up, if you want to call it,

00:09:58 into a home where Christian and all of that.

00:10:01 And then you here--

00:10:03 Marlon is my father, my daddy, Daddy Marlon.

00:10:07 And teaching me what he would have learned

00:10:10 from his mother and father.

00:10:13 So I growing up, yeah, what?

00:10:14 Not me, boy.

00:10:15 I'm not taking no chance.

00:10:16 My father, see, that's not my thing.

00:10:17 And then when you enter the school environment now,

00:10:22 the teacher slip slides you and telling you,

00:10:27 it is OK to do this or it is OK to do that without consultation

00:10:33 with the parents.

00:10:34 And I think to some extent you all need to fix that.

00:10:38 I think that you are right.

00:10:41 Any sort of discussion such as that,

00:10:44 it should include the parent.

00:10:47 Must include the parent, as far as I can tell.

00:10:49 As we established, I have a right

00:10:52 to raise my child the way that I want my child to be raised.

00:10:56 So I have to teach any question, Mr. Hopkins,

00:10:58 and you just answer.

00:11:00 And you know what the teacher said?

00:11:03 The children, too, have rights.

00:11:06 But I say careful, you know, teacher, careful, careful.

00:11:09 Because I think that you may be bordering

00:11:13 along a particular line.

00:11:15 Yes, the children have rights.

00:11:17 But why it is that the children under the age of 18 years

00:11:24 still falls under the responsibility of the parent?

00:11:27 So then in other words, I ask for this openly

00:11:32 because that's who I am.

00:11:33 I said, so, Miss, let me ask you something.

00:11:36 So if they have rights, and the only rights

00:11:40 we seem to want to take away from them

00:11:44 is consent, where sex is concerned,

00:11:47 then if an 11-year-old walk in the school and say, Miss,

00:11:51 I feel I'm 21 today, and I want to have sex.

00:11:55 What would you do?

00:11:57 She went on into the babab-- well, well, well, bab, well,

00:12:00 well, bab, well.

00:12:02 You know the normal thing when you can't answer a question.

00:12:04 And I said, you see, we are setting the pace for disaster.

00:12:09 And when it happens, you either run away and leave

00:12:11 the parents to handle it, or in the case of Tranter Bureau,

00:12:16 call in the police.

00:12:18 All right, Pastor.

00:12:19 Yeah.

00:12:21 Good afternoon, TNT.

00:12:23 All right, so there was a situation today--

00:12:26 that was a troubling situation--

00:12:28 a shooting in the Southern Division earlier today.

00:12:31 A woman was shot in the waiting room of an insurance company.

00:12:37 Did something else happen after?

00:12:39 Yes.

00:12:40 He shot, and then he came outside in a hurry,

00:12:48 probably because he being in a disarray as to what took place

00:12:52 and what did he just did or do.

00:12:55 He jumped into the car, it believed

00:12:57 to be the wrong car that he went into.

00:13:00 And on seeing somebody in the vehicle,

00:13:02 he shot that person to death.

00:13:03 Wow.

00:13:05 And then drove away, making good his escape.

00:13:08 In this?

00:13:09 In the person's vehicle.

00:13:11 You understand.

00:13:13 So is it that the lady--

00:13:15 was she injured, or she's still with us?

00:13:18 Yeah, well, all indications from my counterparts

00:13:22 in the Southern Division, it seems that way to me.

00:13:25 All right, OK.

00:13:26 But, Mr. Hopkins, again, we don't know.

00:13:29 Now tell me this.

00:13:31 Let's bring the police equation into this situation here.

00:13:36 What could have been done to prevent this from happening?

00:13:40 From a law enforcement perspective.

00:13:42 The act?

00:13:43 Yeah.

00:13:44 I don't know that anything could have been done to prevent

00:13:47 the act, because police, they were not aware as to what

00:13:54 would have happened.

00:13:55 However, if it is that--

00:13:57 we can put a different spin to it.

00:13:59 If it is that there was a police presence, a police patrol,

00:14:05 not necessarily to deal with this, you know, but--

00:14:07 No.

00:14:07 You know, a constant presence.

00:14:09 Right, normal patrol.

00:14:09 Yeah, normal patrol.

00:14:10 Let me ask you this.

00:14:11 You see, I want to teach you--

00:14:12 They could have prevented it.

00:14:14 I often want to teach you this.

00:14:17 So, Mr. Hopkins, you're in a police radio.

00:14:19 You have a police radio, you have a police cell phone.

00:14:20 Well, you have a cell phone to yourself.

00:14:22 And you are on patrol in that vicinity.

00:14:25 Right.

00:14:26 You did-- the situation did not happen in your presence.

00:14:30 OK.

00:14:31 So you're on patrol.

00:14:34 If that information don't come to you,

00:14:36 that vehicle is going to pass you.

00:14:38 Absolutely.

00:14:39 So what we inform members of the public,

00:14:42 instead of trying to record, make a call.

00:14:46 So instead of recording, make a call.

00:14:48 Instead of recording, make a call.

00:14:51 Instead of recording, make a call.

00:14:57 Because we have to say it slow.

00:14:58 We have to say it fast.

00:14:59 Everybody wants to post.

00:15:03 Post a call to the police, so we can get information

00:15:06 as to the type of vehicle used and where the vehicle heading.

00:15:09 So, Mr. Hopkins, let's say you are at the top of Frederick Street.

00:15:15 And something happens.

00:15:16 Instead of you post-- try to post to your friends and colleagues

00:15:20 on Facebook and Instagram and TikTok.

00:15:24 Make a call.

00:15:26 And the information-- listen, look at it.

00:15:28 Listen.

00:15:29 Black Tida.

00:15:31 Just-- we just heard some shots.

00:15:33 A man is lying down on the ground.

00:15:34 We have seen the man.

00:15:35 The Black Tida is heading down Frederick Street.

00:15:37 He's in some traffic at this time.

00:15:38 It is now passing the old TNT building on the right.

00:15:42 You understand what I'm saying?

00:15:43 Mr. Hopkins, if you don't do that, a patrol on the outside

00:15:48 who was not able to make that observation or the offense

00:15:53 that was not committed in their presence, they are just there.

00:15:57 Yes.

00:15:58 But what I would want to throw in the pot, too--

00:16:01 Put it in the pot.

00:16:02 --is that if there is constant monitoring--

00:16:05 Of?

00:16:05 --via CCTV cameras--

00:16:09 All right.

00:16:10 Go ahead.

00:16:11 --that can make a great impact.

00:16:13 Right.

00:16:14 So while you may not be able to get from members of the public

00:16:21 the information you require, but I'm

00:16:23 sure a visit to where the incident happened,

00:16:28 you may be able to view that tape.

00:16:30 So we're looking at proactively or reactively?

00:16:34 Well, proactively.

00:16:35 Proactively.

00:16:35 Well, if it's proactively, then you

00:16:38 have to be able to watch and monitor.

00:16:41 And is it strange for a man to be running out of a building

00:16:45 and into a vehicle unless you see him with a gun?

00:16:47 You see, you have to be able to detect these things

00:16:51 from observation.

00:16:52 So you're looking at the CCTV, nah, something wrong here.

00:16:54 Look at that man, nah, it's one of our car.

00:16:57 Patrols on the outside in the vicinity--

00:16:59 you understand what I'm saying?

00:17:00 If that is not the case, Mr. Hopkins,

00:17:03 we will be doing reactive policing,

00:17:06 which modern-day policing does not really endorse.

00:17:09 But to fully do proactive policing, Alexander,

00:17:12 it means what we have always spoken about.

00:17:15 You're going to have to put a police

00:17:16 officer in every corner.

00:17:17 Right.

00:17:19 At every juncture.

00:17:19 And it cannot happen.

00:17:20 But however, to replace the police officer

00:17:24 with a level of technology, then it changes the game.

00:17:28 Because then I will be able to follow a--

00:17:33 whether it's a victim of crime, an accused person,

00:17:36 from point A to point B on their journey either to or from

00:17:41 a criminal activity.

00:17:44 I know what you're trying to do.

00:17:46 You're trying to make a case again.

00:17:48 If you see something, say something.

00:17:50 As usual.

00:17:52 And we have heard that case ad nauseum.

00:17:54 And my position is I still support that.

00:17:57 And I think that everyone should support that.

00:17:59 But while you're asking people to support it

00:18:02 and to provide information, if the information is not

00:18:05 coming, you need to put mechanisms in place.

00:18:08 More CCTV cameras, more technology in place

00:18:12 in the interim.

00:18:13 Well, let me also say good evening to your colleagues.

00:18:17 Who is that?

00:18:20 The-- let me state this right there.

00:18:23 The suspected gang leader of 9-5-FM.

00:18:29 Which one of them is that?

00:18:31 Suspected gang leader of the 9-5--

00:18:33 You need to be careful.

00:18:34 You see, you see, you don't understand what you're doing?

00:18:36 You see what I've done?

00:18:37 Mr. Lee, listen, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

00:18:39 I am preventing us from legal--

00:18:42 What did I say?

00:18:42 They are the leader of the 9-5 gang.

00:18:45 Are they not?

00:18:47 Sir, you see gang talk?

00:18:49 I don't know about that.

00:18:50 They are.

00:18:51 So you're on your own.

00:18:52 No, no, no, no.

00:18:52 Let me just say this.

00:18:54 You have said it.

00:18:55 Go ahead.

00:18:56 This morning, I heard your colleagues, Mr. Dale

00:19:01 and Mr. Tony, going deep into something

00:19:05 that they would have read on the newspaper.

00:19:07 Go ahead.

00:19:08 And that's why I say they are the leader.

00:19:10 No offense to that, gentlemen.

00:19:12 But they're going to deal with you in the morning.

00:19:14 I know, I know, I know.

00:19:14 You'll be listening, so go ahead.

00:19:16 I know.

00:19:17 And they'll take me--

00:19:18 They'll defend themselves.

00:19:19 They'll brace me hard.

00:19:20 But anyhow, let me say this.

00:19:22 Good conversation, but it had to do with a newspaper article

00:19:27 that spoke to gangs in Port Australia calling a shoot.

00:19:34 A truce.

00:19:34 Yeah.

00:19:35 And what they're saying involved law enforcement.

00:19:41 And I thought for a moment that for some reason,

00:19:48 the author of the story may have come full--

00:19:52 the thought in the beginning by what he said.

00:19:58 But strangely enough, nobody called the author of the story

00:20:02 from the article and asked him a question.

00:20:05 So the question when I was guided to law enforcement,

00:20:08 both myself, the Deputy Commissioner of Police,

00:20:11 Mr. Simon, we spoke to the issue.

00:20:15 One of the issues coming out is whether police officer

00:20:21 would mediate in a truce as I speak to this situation here.

00:20:30 And I said to them, under no circumstances,

00:20:36 law enforcement would participate

00:20:39 in such an activity.

00:20:41 In mediation between warring gangs?

00:20:44 Right.

00:20:46 Reasons being, Mr. Hopkinson, we do not

00:20:51 endorse that in any way.

00:20:53 Because the public have a tendency to climb on and say,

00:20:56 you know what?

00:20:57 We are supporting what is happening.

00:20:59 And I told members of the public this morning,

00:21:01 whether we like it or not, gangs worldwide, they are here.

00:21:13 The funny thing is, and not really funny,

00:21:16 the law speaks to a man being a suspected gang

00:21:21 leader or gang member.

00:21:24 And the only time you can deem him a gang leader or gang

00:21:28 member is when he was arrested and successfully persecuted

00:21:31 in a court of law.

00:21:33 Yeah?

00:21:36 There are a number of issues in terms of investigations

00:21:39 that needs to take place before one could be deemed.

00:21:42 And I just explained, a gang leader.

00:21:47 So if that does not happen, we put the name suspected to it.

00:21:54 You understand?

00:21:56 It's like an allegation that this person

00:21:59 is a suspected gang leader.

00:22:01 We might know otherwise as law enforcement officers.

00:22:04 But we must also be careful because it

00:22:07 speaks to a person who have been arrested and convicted

00:22:11 in a court of law.

00:22:13 Oh, Alexander.

00:22:15 Oh, Alexander.

00:22:16 You see, for those who don't understand--

00:22:20 No, we don't understand.

00:22:21 I know, I know, I know you don't.

00:22:22 We chop in.

00:22:22 For those who don't understand--

00:22:24 And my father would say, we don't issue.

00:22:25 --how the laws apply, they will have many things to say,

00:22:28 though.

00:22:29 Just like how they'll tell us, Alexander,

00:22:31 all you know where this is happening.

00:22:32 Alexander, all you know where that is happening.

00:22:34 All you know where that is happening.

00:22:35 And when I come to you sometimes and say, Mr. Hopkinson,

00:22:41 information is not evidence.

00:22:43 You make noise all evening.

00:22:45 All evening, you're quarreling, you're talking all kind of

00:22:46 things, you speak Spanish and all.

00:22:48 I didn't even know you were so versed.

00:22:51 But to understand it, Mr. Hopkinson,

00:22:54 information is not evidence.

00:22:57 And just like persons getting information with respect

00:23:01 to certain things is not enough.

00:23:03 However, let me just say this--

00:23:04 And you know what?

00:23:05 And you know what?

00:23:06 Let me put this in the butter.

00:23:06 I hear what?

00:23:07 You're going through--

00:23:08 Let me put this in the butter.

00:23:10 Information is not evidence.

00:23:11 And the only thing you have to do is hold onto Jackie and dance

00:23:14 about it like a slow song.

00:23:16 Information is not evidence.

00:23:18 And you know what?

00:23:19 You all are satisfied with that.

00:23:22 Information is not evidence.

00:23:24 Because we are hearing that same song for years.

00:23:26 In fact, that is the road match from time immemorial

00:23:29 in Trinidad and Tobago.

00:23:30 And to me, steps have not been taken to make

00:23:36 that information evidence.

00:23:37 Because you know what?

00:23:39 We are comfortable with it.

00:23:41 And a lot of us in this society must

00:23:44 take responsibility for that.

00:23:48 Right.

00:23:48 Mr. Hopkinson, I hear you.

00:23:50 And the song is good.

00:23:52 But--

00:23:52 You all are comforting.

00:23:53 It's like a beautiful pillow.

00:23:55 It hasn't faced the reality.

00:23:59 Let me ask you another question.

00:24:01 We talk about gangs and gangs and gangs and things.

00:24:05 And I said to the two gentlemen this morning,

00:24:08 I said, why police officers are asked to enter schools

00:24:13 where violence is concerned?

00:24:15 And there's also some gang members already in the school.

00:24:18 What are we doing there?

00:24:19 What are we going to do there?

00:24:21 Because it spoke to what is the difference between what

00:24:25 is happening with the gang itself,

00:24:27 these so-called gang members and gang leaders suspected,

00:24:31 and what is happening at the school?

00:24:33 Is there a difference?

00:24:35 Because it's from the school we are recruiting persons

00:24:38 to come here.

00:24:39 That's all.

00:24:40 So wait, wait.

00:24:41 Go ahead.

00:24:41 Let's go to our break.

00:24:42 We're coming back.

00:24:43 Let's go to our break.

00:24:43 When we come back, let's define this.

00:24:45 [MUSIC PLAYING]

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00:26:53 [MUSIC PLAYING]

00:27:01 Criminal gangs in Trinidad and Tobago,

00:27:04 they are illegal, myself.

00:27:06 What have you said, sir?

00:27:07 Could you repeat that?

00:27:09 Criminal gangs in Trinidad and Tobago--

00:27:12 Yes.

00:27:13 Criminal gangs.

00:27:15 Go ahead.

00:27:16 --they are illegal.

00:27:17 Go ahead.

00:27:17 Right?

00:27:18 I do need to write that down.

00:27:19 So any person suspected of criminal gangs--

00:27:22 Yeah?

00:27:23 Go ahead.

00:27:24 --would be investigated.

00:27:25 You're not writing.

00:27:26 No, I'm not writing, because I do need to.

00:27:28 You have a photographic memory.

00:27:30 As one of your colleagues said in the court,

00:27:31 everything is up here.

00:27:33 All right.

00:27:36 Those persons would be investigated--

00:27:37 Right.

00:27:39 --and brought before a court eventually

00:27:42 to be dealt with according to law.

00:27:43 You're not writing.

00:27:44 I'm not writing.

00:27:45 I don't need to.

00:27:47 All right?

00:27:48 Right.

00:27:48 As a police officer--

00:27:49 Uh-huh.

00:27:50 Go ahead.

00:27:50 --in Trinidad and Tobago--

00:27:51 Go ahead.

00:27:53 --I can interview, talk to any person who I believe

00:28:04 have information or can assist in an investigation.

00:28:11 You're not writing.

00:28:12 There's no need to.

00:28:14 OK.

00:28:15 So when you hear-- sometimes you hear about police officers

00:28:18 talking to persons, the first thing come to mind

00:28:20 is association.

00:28:23 But wait.

00:28:24 No, you wait.

00:28:25 You wait.

00:28:25 Go ahead.

00:28:26 Because you're talking long like the Uriah Butler Highway.

00:28:29 Next to Grand Bazaar.

00:28:30 I started there.

00:28:31 Yeah?

00:28:32 Starting at Grand Bazaar.

00:28:33 So here how we backward in this place called Trinidad and Tobago.

00:28:40 So for years now, our leaders, our politicians,

00:28:45 our religious leaders, our teachers, our ministers,

00:28:52 government ministers, you name it, people in communities,

00:28:57 everybody have spoken about criminal gangs

00:29:03 in Trinidad and Tobago.

00:29:05 Alexander has just told us there is no evidence to prove this.

00:29:13 So how have we been talking about criminal gangs

00:29:21 for so long, for about 30, 40 years now?

00:29:24 We're talking about criminal gangs.

00:29:26 So who are we talking about?

00:29:28 We're talking about ghosts then.

00:29:30 So why are we speaking about criminal gangs?

00:29:34 Why are we calling people suspected gang leaders?

00:29:38 Why has the ministry confirmed that there are gang members

00:29:44 in the classroom when there is no evidence?

00:29:48 Suspected.

00:29:49 I wanted to use those words.

00:29:50 How come there is no evidence?

00:29:53 Let me ask you this.

00:29:54 Now, Marlon Hopkins, I hear your story some good.

00:29:56 Right?

00:29:58 And because-- and you see, we are comforted by that.

00:30:03 Right.

00:30:04 That is my point.

00:30:05 Marlon Hopkins, let us face the reality of things.

00:30:07 We used to play see-saw with the information about gangs

00:30:10 in Trinidad and Tobago.

00:30:11 You know that, right?

00:30:13 Sunset Claws, Sunset Claws go on.

00:30:15 Sunset Claws, Sunset Claws go on.

00:30:16 How many gangs are there in Trinidad and Tobago?

00:30:18 It depends on a number of issues.

00:30:24 Alexander?

00:30:25 Let me finish my--

00:30:26 If we could, let's jog your mind to over the years.

00:30:30 We can call some names.

00:30:31 Various-- no, no, no.

00:30:32 I don't want to--

00:30:33 Hold on, hold on.

00:30:34 Various ministers of national security

00:30:36 have spoken about how many gangs there

00:30:39 are in Trinidad and Tobago.

00:30:41 So if there is no evidence, no crime is continuing.

00:30:46 People are shooting one another on the nation's roadways.

00:30:49 High-powered weapons are being used.

00:30:53 Blood is being spilled every day.

00:30:55 And today, there is no evidence of criminal gangs

00:31:00 in Trinidad and Tobago.

00:31:01 Wow.

00:31:02 Marlon, let me go again.

00:31:05 You speak about evidence.

00:31:08 The information is there.

00:31:11 No one has yet been convicted before a court of law,

00:31:14 whether it be gang member or gang leader.

00:31:19 So then we, as a country-- let me ask this question now.

00:31:22 So we, as a country, we are doing a disservice to people

00:31:27 by calling them gang members and gang leaders.

00:31:31 Because if there is no evidence of this,

00:31:34 so then why are we tarnishing the images of people

00:31:38 in this way?

00:31:38 In fact, they should be going to the court

00:31:40 and be dealing with you all.

00:31:42 Well, let me say this, Mr. Alfred Gelsman.

00:31:44 First of all, the investigators have to investigate.

00:31:49 Now, I will tell you this, everybody.

00:31:51 Mr. Alfred Gelsman, when the--

00:31:53 Sad.

00:31:53 When the Sunset Clause thing came about and stopped,

00:31:57 and we have to start over and stop,

00:31:59 it's only now we have a criminal or a gang

00:32:03 legislation to treat with it.

00:32:05 Before that, there was Sunset Clause.

00:32:07 And you remember that?

00:32:09 It finished on the 16th of December.

00:32:11 You remember that, Mr. Alfred Gelsman?

00:32:13 So every time the police have to go back.

00:32:16 When the Sunset Clause came about,

00:32:19 and the police would have done some investigation,

00:32:21 and then the time frame would have finished,

00:32:23 what are we to do then with the information that we have?

00:32:26 We had to put it there.

00:32:27 Nobody knew if it was coming back,

00:32:28 if it was going, if it was coming.

00:32:29 It took some while.

00:32:30 And this is how it is, Mr. Hopkinson.

00:32:32 We now have a anti-gang legislation

00:32:37 that we are working with.

00:32:39 But everybody expects that this to be done in--

00:32:42 Like a bullet.

00:32:44 Wait, wait, wait.

00:32:45 What are you talking about?

00:32:46 Results?

00:32:47 Yeah.

00:32:47 Results?

00:32:48 Alexander, what is wrong with you?

00:32:51 Have you been drinking?

00:32:53 Mr. Hopkinson, you all don't understand this procedure.

00:32:58 Have you eaten a black cake on the weekend?

00:33:01 An early black cake?

00:33:03 With chia seeds?

00:33:05 Have you done that?

00:33:06 Oh, good.

00:33:07 Because what Alexander is saying,

00:33:10 this gentleman is saying, listen again, we are comforted.

00:33:15 Listen to what this gentleman is saying.

00:33:16 He is comforted by that.

00:33:18 The senior superintendent of the IATF,

00:33:20 that gentleman is comforted.

00:33:23 He is telling us, we expect results.

00:33:28 We expect results.

00:33:30 You're telling the relatives of people

00:33:34 who have been murdered over--

00:33:36 By whom?

00:33:37 --many years in Trinidad and Tobago--

00:33:39 Mr. Hopkinson.

00:33:40 They expect--

00:33:41 They expect results almost immediately?

00:33:44 Mr. Hopkinson, the Homicide Bureau of Investigation

00:33:48 investigates a murder.

00:33:50 The gang units in Trinidad and Tobago

00:33:52 investigate gang activity.

00:33:54 If a gang member, a lynched gang member, or suspected gammer--

00:33:58 He just calling the people-- he just said gang again.

00:34:01 Well, let me--

00:34:02 Where's the evidence?

00:34:02 You know, we're talking--

00:34:03 There is no evidence.

00:34:04 Stop calling the people gang members.

00:34:07 The persons who--

00:34:08 Who nothing.

00:34:09 There is no evidence of nothing.

00:34:12 So let me continue.

00:34:14 Let me continue as we are going.

00:34:17 Alexander, let me put it to you.

00:34:20 There are no gangs in Trinidad and Tobago.

00:34:22 There are no criminal gangs.

00:34:24 There are no criminal gang leaders.

00:34:26 Stop subbing the people's image.

00:34:28 The persons who are suspected of gang leadership

00:34:33 and membership, Marlon, their behavior

00:34:37 does not in any way affect the investigation done

00:34:40 by the Homicide Bureau of Investigation.

00:34:42 Do you understand that?

00:34:44 Why is there a Homicide Bureau, Alexander?

00:34:46 There's no need for that.

00:34:48 Criminal gangs, as you're calling them, they don't exist.

00:34:52 So what is Homicide investigating?

00:34:55 Marlon, all the murders are not done just

00:34:58 under those circumstances.

00:34:59 And the point is that's why all is so damn stupid.

00:35:02 You see?

00:35:02 I saw some of all you must be upset by the statements

00:35:06 I'm making.

00:35:07 That is how-- that is the dothishness all

00:35:10 it is be talking about.

00:35:12 So there is no evidence to be comforted by that.

00:35:14 But you're calling this one gang leader,

00:35:16 you're calling this one gang--

00:35:17 that one gang leader.

00:35:18 People are coming out and saying, who is this?

00:35:20 Who is that?

00:35:21 Who is all kind of thing.

00:35:22 But there is no evidence.

00:35:24 And we are comforted by that.

00:35:25 If all are comforted, I comforted.

00:35:28 I good with that.

00:35:29 With all concern, we have to investigate.

00:35:33 Take this situation before a court.

00:35:35 And the court now must make a pronouncement

00:35:38 as to the persons who brought the circumstances

00:35:41 and the evidence available to it.

00:35:44 So Mr. Hopkinson, if that is done,

00:35:47 and the court says, hey, no, it's no.

00:35:49 If the court says, yes, it's yes.

00:35:51 And then in the first time, we might be able to say,

00:35:55 gang leader.

00:35:56 Because in fact, that person was convicted of being a gang leader.

00:35:59 You all are a bunch of clowns.

00:36:02 Sunset clause, sunrise clause, solar eclipse clause.

00:36:07 We don't really care.

00:36:09 As citizens of this country, we don't really care.

00:36:11 We want action.

00:36:13 We want results.

00:36:15 We want to feel safe.

00:36:17 That is what we want.

00:36:18 After talking this morning to Mr. Lee and Dela

00:36:21 and Mr. Tony Lee, I realized that, you know what?

00:36:24 The public is really looking for results.

00:36:28 But they don't understand what.

00:36:30 No, no, no, no.

00:36:31 So you don't realize the people looking for results because of that.

00:36:34 But you all don't understand what is required.

00:36:37 How all you understand everything and then crime is so high still.

00:36:42 All you understand everything.

00:36:44 Mr. Hopkinson.

00:36:45 What?

00:36:46 If I was to show you every video here and say,

00:36:49 that is boom shaka laka shooting that man there.

00:36:52 Every time somebody says something, we want, what's that?

00:36:58 To take a break, Jackie Pong, you know what I'm saying?

00:36:59 Let's go take a break.

00:37:01 Now this is radical trading.

00:37:11 You understand?

00:37:12 And they have everything to cover anything.

00:37:14 Radical trading have the best fabric design for your poster.

00:37:17 It is, yeah.

00:37:19 The furniture, car, boat, and even material for school bags.

00:37:23 This will look really nice on my coat boy.

00:37:26 They even make a pillow too.

00:37:28 Sprang.

00:37:28 Oh, shucks, I forgot the money.

00:37:30 Serious?

00:37:31 Can you pay for it for me?

00:37:33 Me and my big mouth boy.

00:37:34 I wonder if radical get thing to cover mouth yet.

00:37:37 Radical trading, four locations nationwide.

00:37:40 [MUSIC PLAYING]

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00:37:55 [MUSIC PLAYING]

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00:38:38 [INAUDIBLE]

00:38:40 Go ahead, Alexander.

00:38:41 Go ahead.

00:38:42 Go ahead.

00:38:42 Hold on, hold on.

00:38:43 Let's go to the bus stop outside Movietown.

00:38:50 Yeah?

00:38:51 So a shooting occurred there last evening.

00:38:54 It was on the westbound lane.

00:38:57 Yep.

00:38:59 Again, members of the public, this is what we are faced with.

00:39:03 Ever so often, you see the lights, you see the tape,

00:39:08 and you know something happened.

00:39:11 This happened last night in the vicinity of Movietown,

00:39:20 where a man was shot and killed on the scene.

00:39:28 Again, anybody with information, you

00:39:29 can call the nearest police station, 555-800-TIPS.

00:39:32 Call the 999 police emergency line.

00:39:35 And every day I come here, I have

00:39:37 to text my colleague in the homicide

00:39:42 for him to provide these numbers for me,

00:39:44 because I do the call.

00:39:45 I go to call.

00:39:46 And every time it slips me at times

00:39:48 to get these numbers from my colleague in the homicide

00:39:51 as to what numbers members of the public

00:39:55 should call, because I don't want members of the public

00:39:58 having information that could help us

00:40:01 along those lines of these investigations

00:40:03 with respect to homicides.

00:40:05 And it goes to the station, and somebody

00:40:07 forgets to contact them and give them that information.

00:40:10 I would prefer that they deal directly

00:40:13 with the homicide officers.

00:40:15 So I don't know if my colleague is looking at the program.

00:40:18 He can text me some numbers of all the homicides,

00:40:23 Bureau of Investigation, so I can give members

00:40:26 of the public it on air, so they can make that call.

00:40:29 For those who have information that could assist

00:40:31 in any investigation.

00:40:33 - So would you say that some of these homicides

00:40:38 are gang related?

00:40:39 - Well, Mr. Hopkins, again, they are suspected

00:40:44 gang related homicides.

00:40:46 - So then there's no evidence?

00:40:49 - Well, not yet until Mr. Hopkins is telling us.

00:40:51 - So when do you all plan to get evidence?

00:40:54 - How?

00:40:55 - Because this has been going on for a number of years now.

00:40:58 When do you all plan to get some evidence?

00:41:01 Could we say by the end of the year, next year, 2030?

00:41:05 - Officers in different gang units are working.

00:41:10 - Oh, there's a gang unit, Alexander?

00:41:11 - Several gang units.

00:41:12 - Oh my word.

00:41:14 But if there are no gangs, why is there a gang unit?

00:41:17 - Because they are persons suspected of being gang members

00:41:22 and gang leaders.

00:41:24 - All right, okay.

00:41:25 Thank you very much, sir.

00:41:26 - You're welcome.

00:41:27 - Now, sure.

00:41:28 Anything else?

00:41:29 - Police have arrested a 24 year old suspect yesterday

00:41:32 who allegedly attacked his employer

00:41:34 while at his workplace in Rio Claro.

00:41:36 I wonder if there's evidence of this.

00:41:38 So according to police reports at around 11 a.m.,

00:41:42 I wonder if there's evidence that it was 11 a.m.

00:41:44 On November 19th, was yesterday November 19th?

00:41:48 I wonder if there's evidence of that.

00:41:49 A proprietor was seated on a chair in his office

00:41:52 at his business place when one of his employees entered

00:41:55 and began attacking him with a cutlass.

00:41:57 How does the police know this?

00:41:59 I wonder if there's evidence of this.

00:42:00 So the business owner, police were told,

00:42:03 sustained serious injuries to the back of his neck

00:42:05 and his left hand.

00:42:07 I suspect this is what the police suspect.

00:42:11 The suspect then fled the scene.

00:42:13 So wait, so there's evidence of a suspect in this matter?

00:42:16 I wonder how the police know that.

00:42:18 Neighbors assisted the injured proprietor

00:42:20 who was then taken for medical treatment

00:42:22 at a health facility and later discharged.

00:42:24 There were neighbors.

00:42:25 I wonder if they're suspected neighbors

00:42:27 or I wonder if they were neighbors.

00:42:29 How do the police know that they are neighbors?

00:42:31 Maybe suspected neighbors?

00:42:33 All right, I wonder what the questioning was

00:42:35 to find out if they were neighbors.

00:42:37 A report was later made, a report or a suspected report,

00:42:41 was later made to the Rio Claro Police Station.

00:42:43 I wonder how they know it's Rio Claro Police.

00:42:44 Maybe because of the sign.

00:42:46 I wonder if anybody tell them.

00:42:47 I wonder if they interview anybody.

00:42:49 And an investigation was immediately launched.

00:42:52 I wonder if it was immediately launched.

00:42:53 I wonder if it was 10 o'clock or 11 o'clock.

00:42:55 I wonder who confirmed that.

00:42:56 Which resulted in the arrest of a 24 year old.

00:42:59 I wonder how they know he was 24 years old

00:43:01 and he's a suspect.

00:43:03 Maybe they had a birth certificate.

00:43:04 I don't know.

00:43:05 All right, and the seizure of a weapon believed to,

00:43:07 a weapon?

00:43:09 How do they know it was a weapon?

00:43:11 Or do we have to get someone to say it was a weapon?

00:43:14 So apparently a lot of things are wrong

00:43:16 in this press statement, Alexander.

00:43:19 Believed to have been used in the alleged assault.

00:43:22 (paper thuds)

00:43:25 - You finished Mr. Amkesson?

00:43:28 - Yes, I'm finished.

00:43:29 - Wait, wait.

00:43:30 Mr. Amkesson, you took the whole thing.

00:43:32 And I second.

00:43:34 - Well, everything is,

00:43:35 everything, everything we suspect, you know.

00:43:38 Because there is no evidence, you know.

00:43:40 How do I know that you're Senior Superintendent Alexander

00:43:43 of the IATF?

00:43:44 How do I know that?

00:43:45 Is there evidence of this?

00:43:46 Who is this person here?

00:43:48 Is this the right person?

00:43:49 You were two years away from here.

00:43:51 I know, I'm not sure that you're that person.

00:43:53 - Eh, I changed.

00:43:55 - Mm, what are you going to now?

00:43:57 Five years in?

00:43:58 - Yankee, help.

00:44:00 Where are you with stuff?

00:44:02 - Two male minors, imagine that.

00:44:06 Are they suspected minors?

00:44:08 Or do we have evidence of this?

00:44:10 Are currently detained and a firearm,

00:44:12 what and the quantity of ammunition was seized

00:44:15 following a foot chase yesterday morning?

00:44:17 What I would want to say, eh,

00:44:20 is that you see,

00:44:21 everything that would have gone into this matter,

00:44:26 to investigate this,

00:44:27 and the police have taken a position that,

00:44:30 A, what we see before us is evidence,

00:44:34 and we can send out a press statement.

00:44:36 I want you to do the same thing

00:44:38 when it comes to criminal gangs in Trinidad and Tobago.

00:44:41 - Start off by the reading of that,

00:44:42 and let me explain some of it.

00:44:43 - Two male minors are currently detained,

00:44:45 and a firearm and a quantity of ammunition was seized

00:44:48 following a foot chase yesterday morning in Maloney Garden.

00:44:51 - By who?

00:44:52 Go ahead.

00:44:53 A foot chase, go ahead, I want you to go on.

00:44:56 - Maloney Police Station.

00:44:57 - Stop writing.

00:44:59 - On patrol.

00:45:00 - All right, stop writing.

00:45:01 You see, that is what I was trying to explain

00:45:03 to you a short while ago.

00:45:04 There is a difference between something happening

00:45:08 within the view of the police,

00:45:11 and something that the police has to investigate.

00:45:13 Do you understand that?

00:45:15 - Alexander, I have stood here

00:45:18 and have told you all how to do it.

00:45:21 - But you never eat Mr. John food, Mr. Hopkinson?

00:45:24 - I don't need to eat Mr. John Barty's food.

00:45:27 Mr. John, a very special good evening.

00:45:29 (laughing)

00:45:31 - What is this here like?

00:45:32 - I don't need the bad Tokyo food.

00:45:33 - How to do it, Mr. Hopkinson?

00:45:35 Tell us how to do it.

00:45:36 I want to know how it's written in this.

00:45:37 - Alexander.

00:45:38 - Go ahead.

00:45:39 - Alexander.

00:45:40 - Tell us how to do it.

00:45:40 - You see, yeah.

00:45:42 You know, there's a problem with you all.

00:45:44 - Tell us how to do it, Mr. Hopkinson.

00:45:45 - You all know everything.

00:45:47 And I mean, and I think--

00:45:50 - Mr. Hopkinson, you have been the first person

00:45:52 that I've managed to just run from the court.

00:45:54 - Hold on, hold on.

00:45:55 They have not been doing a very good job too.

00:45:57 - What?

00:45:58 - Yeah, I've said it.

00:45:59 Yeah, so you all constantly speak about what happens abroad

00:46:06 and the technology and whatever and whatever.

00:46:08 But you all in Trinidad and Tobago, as I said,

00:46:11 that is the operative word this afternoon here.

00:46:13 You all are comforted by failing over and over and over.

00:46:18 And every time we try to make one step forward,

00:46:21 you bring old ideas, yeah?

00:46:24 Never anything outside of the box

00:46:27 because you're thinking it's right here.

00:46:31 It's never beyond that.

00:46:33 And when someone brings an idea,

00:46:35 you can always say why it must not work

00:46:40 instead of why don't we look at it

00:46:42 and see if it can work here, right?

00:46:45 But as I said, judging from your statements

00:46:48 and I know you have like-minded persons surrounding you,

00:46:52 you are not intent in trying anything new.

00:46:57 So you come this evening here, yeah?

00:47:00 The only thing you're missing is one of them horse

00:47:02 from the mountain branch.

00:47:04 You come like cowboy X and hear what you telling me.

00:47:07 You do not have evidence.

00:47:09 You do have evidence.

00:47:10 Okay, you don't have evidence, all right.

00:47:12 Let us continue the way that we going.

00:47:14 Let me go down the road.

00:47:17 Let me go down the road.

00:47:18 We going down the road.

00:47:19 We going down the road.

00:47:20 No evidence, all right.

00:47:22 What we have now?

00:47:23 Break?

00:47:24 Let me go.

00:47:24 Let me go, let me go.

00:47:26 No evidence.

00:47:26 (upbeat music)

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00:48:30 NIBTT, more than just a pension provider.

00:48:33 (upbeat music)

00:48:36 (upbeat music)

00:48:38 - Maybe you could afford to pay up to $22,500 in fines

00:49:04 and lose your license permanently.

00:49:07 No?

00:49:08 Then don't drink and drive.

00:49:10 - A message from the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.

00:49:14 (upbeat music)

00:49:19 - Don't have the evidence,

00:49:26 then how are we going to get the evidence?

00:49:28 - Right?

00:49:30 And that is the question.

00:49:31 And you know what we have done with the government?

00:49:34 We have encouraged you, we have used technology

00:49:37 and a number of different areas

00:49:40 in order to get the relevant information

00:49:42 that we're looking for,

00:49:43 turn it into evidence and put postings before the court.

00:49:47 - Let's take a call.

00:49:48 Caller, good evening.

00:49:50 We're looking for some evidence.

00:49:51 Do you have it?

00:49:52 (laughing)

00:49:53 - Yeah, I have it for you, my man.

00:49:57 Good evening.

00:49:58 - Good evening.

00:49:59 - It is contained in section four, five and six

00:50:03 of the constitution, your fundamental human rights.

00:50:07 Then when you go to how the parliament operates

00:50:09 and once those rights have to be abridged,

00:50:12 especially in the fight of crime,

00:50:13 which we are engaging now,

00:50:15 you have to get that three fifths

00:50:16 or special majority to pass the legislation.

00:50:20 So your point about the evidence

00:50:21 that the police need with respect to alleged gang members,

00:50:26 that is the wording of the legislation

00:50:28 that was passed in parliament by one administration

00:50:31 when the sun set close and was attempted to be brought back

00:50:34 by another administration and was downgraded again.

00:50:38 Now when you have, you see,

00:50:40 something that's stupid that I can't say,

00:50:42 but I could say.

00:50:43 When you have legislators who are defense attorneys

00:50:49 and then they have judicial officers

00:50:51 who were defense attorneys,

00:50:54 it is started against the prosecutorial police

00:50:58 because the standard that they have to meet here,

00:51:01 that we have to meet here,

00:51:03 is astronomically unfair and ridiculous

00:51:08 compared to other places.

00:51:10 I'll give you an example, right?

00:51:12 The law says and names people who may harbor gang leaders

00:51:18 who is a suspected gang member

00:51:20 and who is a suspected gang leader.

00:51:22 It does not say those things straight up.

00:51:27 Gang member, gang leader.

00:51:29 Therefore, the investigation and surveillance

00:51:34 to be paid by the various gang intelligence units

00:51:41 who are actually supervised by the SIU,

00:51:47 University Police Service, has to be meticulous

00:51:52 to go and get the permission

00:51:56 to do interception of communication of these people,

00:51:59 whether they incarcerated or outside,

00:52:02 has to be, you have to satisfy a very high threshold

00:52:05 because that was set by the parliamentarians.

00:52:08 And I'm telling you,

00:52:09 even if you bring the best of MI5

00:52:12 and all the other spy agencies around the world,

00:52:15 they will throw guns and say,

00:52:17 "It cannot work if you want to get out and do anything."

00:52:19 That's what the superintendent can't say.

00:52:21 I can say that 'cause I was there, I am not wrong in it.

00:52:24 So I am unfettered by an oath of secrecy and silence.

00:52:28 - But, but sir--

00:52:29 - And so, as long as this is the case,

00:52:33 we will go nowhere quickly.

00:52:36 - Right.

00:52:37 - It will be like molasses rolling up our heels.

00:52:39 So it's not the police service fault.

00:52:40 It's the people who are entrusted to pass legislation

00:52:45 and make it effective so that the police

00:52:48 could do what they want.

00:52:49 Do you know what this matter?

00:52:50 This is a gun fight.

00:52:52 One hand handcuffed behind your back

00:52:54 and you have to use a non-dominant hand

00:52:57 to use your weapon of treat.

00:53:02 That's the facts.

00:53:03 The superintendent can't say that,

00:53:04 but I can tell you that those are the facts.

00:53:07 But I will tell you,

00:53:10 it will take a horrendous,

00:53:13 a horrendous bloodbath for the reality to come home.

00:53:18 I'm telling you that matter.

00:53:20 And the superintendent and other senior officers

00:53:23 do wait to come to that.

00:53:24 But it will come to that

00:53:26 because you continue to harm,

00:53:29 shun and distrust the agency task

00:53:33 within the premier law enforcement arm of the state.

00:53:37 - Caller?

00:53:39 - What I don't even,

00:53:40 I have no response to you this evening

00:53:42 because you would have hit the nail so hard on the head

00:53:46 that the nail is driven straight into the arm.

00:53:50 Of those persons who do not understand.

00:53:53 - Well--

00:53:54 - Marlon, I try to explain to you sometimes, but I can't.

00:53:56 I really have to hold it.

00:53:58 That's just the way it is.

00:53:59 - Well, I'm glad that the caller

00:54:01 tried to clear it up a little bit for me.

00:54:05 And I think I do have an understanding a little better

00:54:08 as to the limitations of the police service.

00:54:13 All right, let's take a call.

00:54:16 Good evening, caller.

00:54:18 - Good afternoon, gentlemen.

00:54:20 - Yes, sir.

00:54:21 - Good afternoon, thank you for your opportunity.

00:54:24 Mr. Alexander, I want to have a discussion

00:54:28 with you particularly concerning

00:54:31 this crime situation now in Trinidad.

00:54:34 Now, the point is that you all have been saying over and over

00:54:39 that you all are more or less dependent on the public

00:54:43 to give you all information.

00:54:45 And I don't understand why it is

00:54:49 that you all are not being proactive

00:54:51 in dealing with this crime situation

00:54:54 where gangs are concerned.

00:54:56 Now, I recall there were two exercises done.

00:55:00 One was done in the '80s by Lance Selmon,

00:55:03 which when we had Lizard with the problem,

00:55:06 and obviously he locked down DV and the violence

00:55:11 and took a shot in the video.

00:55:13 We had another situation where the same thing was done

00:55:16 in the Laventille Mover area.

00:55:19 And that was done from, let's say,

00:55:21 four o'clock in the morning until midday.

00:55:23 Now, the point I am driving at is that those exercises,

00:55:27 let's just say the one in Laventille was done

00:55:31 where intelligence was given from the CIU,

00:55:34 plans were drawn, we had exactly where the lanes are,

00:55:39 different places, and as a result,

00:55:42 everybody came in, the army came in,

00:55:44 and they were assembled and everybody put together

00:55:46 and it involved over almost 200 people in all,

00:55:50 which included the police, the K9 section

00:55:53 and everything like that.

00:55:54 Now, when that was done, when the house-to-house searches

00:55:59 was being done, people were trying,

00:56:03 nobody could have left the work or anything, right?

00:56:07 Now, why is it can't be done?

00:56:08 Now, we have a situation, now we have drones

00:56:11 where we could use the drones to get real-time information.

00:56:14 And with that real-time information,

00:56:16 we can put a handle on locking,

00:56:18 there is a Belmont area, Bella Road,

00:56:21 and that area there.

00:56:22 For months now, it have men manning the road in Belmont,

00:56:26 the road, there's three men with guns in the road,

00:56:29 high-powered weapons, and they're telling you

00:56:30 you cannot go up there.

00:56:32 And this has been going on now for months,

00:56:34 and you wanna tell me that police don't know that

00:56:37 and everybody know about it?

00:56:40 The man had to reverse his car back down Bella Road

00:56:42 because of a seat that he,

00:56:43 they just tell him go back down, you can't go up there.

00:56:46 And this latest one that was instituting,

00:56:50 telling people stay in your house at a certain time

00:56:52 and all this kind of thing, well, which is like,

00:56:54 I am saying to you, you all are depending too much

00:56:57 on the public to give you information.

00:56:59 You could be more proactive and do exactly things

00:57:01 that was supposed to be done to this man, to these gangs.

00:57:04 And I think I would like to see that happen,

00:57:08 and I'm telling you, you're going on vacation,

00:57:10 plan something up your throat where you could do houses.

00:57:13 When you start house to house, people try to move,

00:57:16 and if they try to move,

00:57:17 the drones and they will pick up real-time information,

00:57:20 and from time to time, they know that you coming

00:57:22 or you in the area and you have guns.

00:57:24 I mean, all these things, with the public,

00:57:26 you're all doing that, right?

00:57:28 You're all talking about taking back the streets.

00:57:29 Well, take back Belmont!

00:57:30 Take back Belmont, they're coming on this program,

00:57:34 talking over and over and over the same thing.

00:57:36 I mean, the point of what it is, it is frustrating.

00:57:38 And I am telling you, you know why I'm talking all this?

00:57:40 Because I am from Bowers' time.

00:57:42 Because when Bowers' time, people come in

00:57:43 and he's doing certain things,

00:57:45 and he has said to the men, "Keep moving."

00:57:47 And basically, he gets himself done.

00:57:49 Why? It is that you all cannot do that,

00:57:51 do something like that, don't depend on the public.

00:57:53 - Yes, yes.

00:57:54 We must go to a very short break.

00:57:56 We're coming back.

00:57:57 It's good the man, it's good the man tell you that.

00:57:59 It's good for you. - I will answer.

00:57:59 I will answer.

00:58:00 (laughing)

00:58:01 (upbeat music)

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00:59:10 So you have big plans for the year, eh?

00:59:13 A trip in July, birthday in November,

00:59:16 and fet after fet this carnival.

00:59:18 But you know what is stop plans?

00:59:22 A $22,500 fine.

00:59:25 You know what else could really stop your plans?

00:59:30 Five years imprisonment,

00:59:32 and suspension on your license for three years.

00:59:35 Don't drink and drive.

00:59:37 (glass shatters)

00:59:40 (upbeat music)

00:59:47 - So listen, listen, listen, listen.

00:59:53 So listen to this, right?

00:59:54 So a man tells you, "I am Alexander the Great,

00:59:59 "and I am the head of the VTT guys."

01:00:07 Gang.

01:00:07 And I represent 89, right?

01:00:14 And I show you now, 89, and a video,

01:00:18 and all kind of thing.

01:00:19 And here with the police asking you,

01:00:23 "Will you say your name is?"

01:00:25 "Alexander the Great Boy."

01:00:27 And you represent 89?

01:00:30 Say, "Yeah, I have a video, yes, see it,

01:00:33 "I was 89 boy."

01:00:36 And I'm in charge of the VTT gang, right?

01:00:40 And here with the police still asking you,

01:00:43 "You sure boy?

01:00:44 "I don't think we have evidence for you, you know?"

01:00:47 "Yeah, all that I say in video and thing, but nah."

01:00:50 - Is that gang he's mentioning a CPEP gang?

01:00:54 Or is it a criminal gang?

01:00:55 Go ahead.

01:00:56 - It is a criminal gang.

01:00:57 - Oh, okay.

01:00:58 - It's a criminal gang.

01:00:59 - It's a criminal gang.

01:01:00 - But you do have evidence, but listen to this again.

01:01:04 So the VTT gang controls a certain area, let's say.

01:01:09 This is an example in Trinidad and Tobago, right?

01:01:14 There is a level of criminal activity.

01:01:20 The police don't believe that Alexander the Great

01:01:25 is the gang leader for that area, you know?

01:01:28 But and they're going to Alexander the Great?

01:01:32 So there is no evidence to prove that Alexander the Great,

01:01:36 according to the police,

01:01:37 there is no evidence to prove Alexander the Great

01:01:40 is responsible for the area here that is heated,

01:01:45 but the police gone to he, questioning he.

01:01:48 Alexander, what going on here?

01:01:50 - Mr. Hopkinson, the function of the police

01:01:53 which has related to gangs in Trinidad and Tobago

01:01:55 is to dismantle these gangs.

01:01:59 You hear me?

01:02:02 - What?

01:02:03 - I'm having a matrix moment, go ahead.

01:02:05 - What matrix moment you having?

01:02:08 Marlon, if we--

01:02:09 - Alexander, explain yourself now, man.

01:02:10 - Yeah, because you're having a matrix, I mean.

01:02:12 Because I find you're going so hard

01:02:15 that you're missing the point.

01:02:16 I want you to--

01:02:16 - What is the point?

01:02:17 - And swallow, swallow.

01:02:18 - You're not making yourself clear.

01:02:19 Go ahead, I'm sitting down.

01:02:21 I'm sitting down, I'm shutting up.

01:02:22 Look, I put him in a thing, go on, go ahead.

01:02:26 - Marlon, our focus as police officers in Trinidad

01:02:30 and Tobago where these alleged gangs are concerned

01:02:34 is to dismantle them.

01:02:36 Dismantle meaning through legislation and otherwise.

01:02:42 Bringing them before a court

01:02:45 and when you bring a gang member, alleged gang member,

01:02:49 well, if you bring a suspected gang member before a court

01:02:52 and he's convicted, then he's deemed now a gang member

01:02:56 and then the legislation hits him hard

01:02:58 or her hard to such an extent that they could be there

01:03:01 for how much years, 20 and other years, you see?

01:03:04 So Mr. Hopkins, when you see a talk in that,

01:03:07 and I heard the call that I saw,

01:03:08 they say now men in the road in Belmont and all of that.

01:03:12 If that is the case, where men was in the road,

01:03:15 did people call the law enforcement officers

01:03:17 to ensure that that doesn't take place anymore?

01:03:20 You see, persons selling stories

01:03:22 sometimes on the social media.

01:03:24 Boy, I went up the hill and they run me back.

01:03:26 But who did you talk to, Mr. Hopkinson?

01:03:29 - Alexander, you're putting up a strong argument,

01:03:32 a strong fight, but I think you have lost this one.

01:03:36 (laughing)

01:03:38 Do you have anything white on you?

01:03:39 A kerchief?

01:03:40 Just, just, just, Alexander.

01:03:43 - I know as good citizens, we all do understand

01:03:45 how much we have to go or how far we have to go

01:03:49 to get this information, to get this,

01:03:51 this to put it before the court.

01:03:53 You have no idea.

01:03:55 You think that someone could just say,

01:03:56 hey, well, listen, I is eight, I'm 26 and all kind of thing.

01:04:00 And I said, take him, carry him before the court.

01:04:03 - Alexander.

01:04:04 - And then we are asked to go or the matter is dismissed.

01:04:07 And then you will say to something the police do,

01:04:10 some corrupt practice or something.

01:04:11 We did not meet the evidential threshold

01:04:15 to put the man and sustain a conviction of war.

01:04:17 Do you understand that?

01:04:19 - Woo!

01:04:20 What next we have?

01:04:21 What next we have?

01:04:23 Could you please help us?

01:04:24 (laughs)

01:04:25 What are we seeing here?

01:04:26 Is this evidence of a fight with people

01:04:29 who appear to be police officers?

01:04:32 I'm not sure.

01:04:33 (laughs)

01:04:34 - Anyway, anyway, remember the Republic,

01:04:37 this is another thing we are, we continue to see.

01:04:40 Anybody who have an issues in terms of their,

01:04:45 their situation involving making an arrest,

01:04:49 you can make an application to the Guardian Emergency Branch

01:04:52 or the Interagency Task Force.

01:04:54 And we will train you along a particular line

01:04:56 so you could be able to better come for yourself.

01:05:00 - Alexander, don't sound so deflated.

01:05:01 Come on, come on now, Alexander, give us some energy.

01:05:03 - Come for yourself on the nation street

01:05:06 because the public is looking.

01:05:08 So if, so if you are having issues

01:05:12 with respect to your ability to make an arrest,

01:05:16 we invite you, make an application to me

01:05:21 and we will have the relevant officers treat with you

01:05:25 and assist you in making this possible

01:05:31 and not what we are seeing here now.

01:05:33 Now, what is this lady doing here?

01:05:37 And she's pulling against the individual there?

01:05:41 Oy, full of jerseys.

01:05:43 Now, I don't understand.

01:05:47 - Who's holding onto who here?

01:05:50 - Yes.

01:05:51 - This is one man. - What was she doing there?

01:05:55 What was the lady doing there?

01:05:56 Oh, okay. - This is one man

01:05:59 that is tangulating the police.

01:06:03 Don't Google that.

01:06:05 And this is what I'm saying is that,

01:06:09 we can teach our officers,

01:06:13 for those who think that they are lacking in that respect,

01:06:20 how to treat this situation.

01:06:22 This man should have been on the ground

01:06:24 in a controlled way and the arrest made.

01:06:30 But then I understand thereafter what took place.

01:06:38 You see the members of the public?

01:06:42 You see how close they are?

01:06:43 - Why is this in green? - If the pepper spray

01:06:46 would have been. - Alexander,

01:06:47 why is it in green? - Huh, you want it in green?

01:06:48 - Why is this? - I don't know.

01:06:49 - All right, okay.

01:06:50 - What, you want it in green, is that?

01:06:54 - Yeah, frightening.

01:06:55 Let's go.

01:06:57 - Who's that behind there?

01:06:58 She probably an artist.

01:07:02 It look like a, it look like a marker.

01:07:06 She probably a teacher, Mr. Hopkinson.

01:07:08 She probably a teacher.

01:07:09 There's a marker behind there.

01:07:10 Anyway, members of the public, again, if you,

01:07:13 in fact, for police officers,

01:07:17 if you're in a situation where you think

01:07:19 that you're having some difficulty.

01:07:21 - You're outnumbered. - While that you have learned

01:07:25 or taught certain techniques

01:07:27 with respect to making an arrest,

01:07:29 send the application to me

01:07:31 and I will have my officers treated you.

01:07:33 You come for about a week or a couple days

01:07:35 and we'll be able to train you along those lines.

01:07:38 You could apply to the Guardian Emergency Branch

01:07:40 or the Interagency Task Force, yeah?

01:07:44 And we will have that address.

01:07:45 - All right, ma'am, how much time do we have

01:07:47 before we go to our break?

01:07:49 We have more things before we go, yeah?

01:07:52 - I listen, wait a minute.

01:07:55 - So the person who was being arrested ran away?

01:07:59 - Yeah, he ran. - Got away?

01:08:00 - He ran. - Wow.

01:08:03 - And you see this?

01:08:05 Too many people would have gathered

01:08:09 too close to law enforcement.

01:08:10 Look, look, look, he going there.

01:08:11 He's leaving the scene, if you know what I mean.

01:08:13 He's leaving the scene.

01:08:16 Now, this doesn't look good for the police.

01:08:20 This doesn't look good for the police.

01:08:23 - Alexander, you're having a tough evening, boy, woo!

01:08:25 - This Monday reminds me of the day

01:08:27 when we lost the football yesterday.

01:08:31 So today I tell you, America, eh?

01:08:33 When we lost the football, eh?

01:08:36 Yeah, today's a tough day.

01:08:38 All in all, Mr. Hopkinson, you know what I mean?

01:08:43 We must learn and we continue to learn

01:08:44 from our mistakes.

01:08:46 - Alexander, let's go to a break.

01:08:51 - And when we come back,

01:08:51 I hope things will be well. - We'll have a little more

01:08:54 energy. - I hope things will be well.

01:08:56 (both laughing)

01:08:59 (upbeat music)

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01:09:35 (upbeat music)

01:09:38 This is Mary.

01:09:40 Mary has bills to pay and takes a chance

01:09:44 parking in front of the building at the no parking sign.

01:09:47 Mary returns to her car and this is what happens.

01:09:52 (phone ringing)

01:09:58 Mary decides to call when she's five minutes away

01:10:02 to let her daughter know that she is close by.

01:10:04 But Mary forgot one thing.

01:10:08 - Boy, second ticket for the day.

01:10:10 I don't know, nah?

01:10:11 I really don't know.

01:10:12 Well, I tell you.

01:10:13 - After two tickets,

01:10:15 Mary just isn't paying attention to her speed.

01:10:18 (camera shutter clicking)

01:10:19 (speaking in foreign language)

01:10:23 Don't be like Mary.

01:10:35 Obey the laws of the road.

01:10:38 A message from the TTPS.

01:10:40 (upbeat music)

01:10:42 (phone ringing)

01:10:53 - I saw the pepper spray come out, you know?

01:11:00 - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:11:00 You see, you see, here's what is my phone.

01:11:05 - I think that we always speak about being real.

01:11:10 And I think that if we really want to really deal

01:11:16 with the issue of gangs in Trinidad and Tobago,

01:11:20 we need to do everything that is possible

01:11:24 to gather the evidence

01:11:25 because this has been going on for too long.

01:11:27 And I don't mean to sound like a broken record.

01:11:30 This is going on for too long.

01:11:34 And if it is that the mechanisms are not in place

01:11:38 to help the police,

01:11:38 well then we must put the mechanisms in place

01:11:42 to help the police.

01:11:43 We must put the laws in place to help the police.

01:11:46 Because I feel sometimes that the police are put

01:11:51 in a very uncomfortable position

01:11:54 where they are asked to perform at a maximum level

01:11:59 and they do not have the right tools to do so.

01:12:03 - All right.

01:12:04 - Yeah.

01:12:05 - But put this in your pot.

01:12:06 - Go ahead.

01:12:07 - Dismantle and disrupt.

01:12:09 Now what you will see sometimes,

01:12:11 you'll see exercises in and around places

01:12:15 suspected to be gang held territories and all of this.

01:12:18 It's about disrupting the activity of persons, you see?

01:12:23 And then we have this tools

01:12:26 that we try to use to dismantle.

01:12:28 Probably we need to sharpen them a little more

01:12:31 as the case may be.

01:12:32 Probably they need to help us sharpen these tools

01:12:34 a little more as the case may be.

01:12:36 But always put in the pot,

01:12:39 dismantle and disrupt where the gangs are concerned.

01:12:44 That is really the function of the police.

01:12:46 All right?

01:12:48 - All right.

01:12:49 What are we doing now, miss?

01:12:50 - Here we are with Jackie Lee.

01:12:51 This evening has been a hard evening.

01:12:53 Yeah, let me show you part of what I spoke about

01:12:57 when I said disrupt.

01:13:00 All right?

01:13:02 A couple of days ago,

01:13:03 some men came out on the social media

01:13:04 after the shooting on St. Paul Street.

01:13:09 And they were boasting and bragging that they were here,

01:13:13 they, we is this and we is this and we is that

01:13:16 and we is this.

01:13:17 And they went on the social media

01:13:19 and then law enforcement

01:13:25 with intentions to disrupt what is happening here

01:13:28 went and collect them all.

01:13:31 These were the men who talking all that gangster talk.

01:13:39 And you see, we have to be careful, miss Hopkinson,

01:13:43 because of the advent of the social media,

01:13:47 men doing all kind of thing, you know?

01:13:49 Men putting themselves on scenes

01:13:53 that they were not even involved in,

01:13:54 just to impress some girl or some boy,

01:13:58 or both of them.

01:14:00 You understand what I'm saying?

01:14:02 So that's why when sometimes I tell you

01:14:04 evidence, miss Hopkinson, is not enough.

01:14:06 Just imagine, right?

01:14:07 Somebody put himself on the social media and say,

01:14:09 boy, boy, I jump out and I touch him and blah, blah, blah.

01:14:13 And then after the investigation,

01:14:15 we realized that this man was nowhere involved in this.

01:14:18 You see?

01:14:20 So sometimes we have to be very careful

01:14:21 with the social media is concerned

01:14:23 and these little tools and them putting up themselves

01:14:26 and making it look like sign and all kind of things,

01:14:28 something so, I don't know.

01:14:31 At the end of the day, again, miss Hopkinson,

01:14:33 we have to get the sufficient evidence

01:14:38 to put the suspected persons who suspected

01:14:42 of being gang leaders and gang members

01:14:44 before the court and then the court deemed them

01:14:46 to be just that.

01:14:48 - That's a good enough quote.

01:14:50 Good evening, caller.

01:14:53 Caller, good evening.

01:14:54 - Yeah, good evening to you, Marlon.

01:14:57 I sympathize with your stress trying to get

01:15:01 to this evidence from this gang.

01:15:03 What I'm saying is, Alexander,

01:15:06 if you have suspected gang members,

01:15:08 you know who they are, there are so many gangs.

01:15:11 They have weapons and so on.

01:15:14 You should know where they're living.

01:15:16 They move in vehicles or whatever.

01:15:19 As the caller earlier said,

01:15:21 mount up an operation and target these persons.

01:15:25 So when you get them, they're born or what,

01:15:28 and they have ammunition or arms or what,

01:15:32 you deal with them.

01:15:33 They have to be a gang member to deal with.

01:15:35 If a person has firearm and he's causing stress

01:15:39 and criminal activities, he can be held

01:15:42 and bring before the court.

01:15:43 What is this gang organization?

01:15:44 I don't understand it.

01:15:46 Persons are out there committing crimes with firearms.

01:15:50 I said target them, they have intelligence,

01:15:52 you know where they live,

01:15:53 you know what vehicles they're using.

01:15:55 Why can't we just have operations

01:15:58 and get behind these people and bring them before the court?

01:16:01 What is the only thing about gang and suspected gang?

01:16:03 And in the years now, there's so many gangs we have,

01:16:07 there's so many firearms out there,

01:16:09 and we should be holding them.

01:16:11 They have to go somewhere, they have to flee from there.

01:16:14 They have to drive about.

01:16:15 And then we have drones, we have all the technology now.

01:16:19 Can we not make any damage?

01:16:21 - Colum, can I ask you something?

01:16:23 - Sure.

01:16:24 - You have been watching television.

01:16:25 You're really new to seem to be a person

01:16:27 who's learned in that field.

01:16:29 When last have you seen a man in possession of a firearm?

01:16:35 - Well, I've seen that on social media.

01:16:38 - Well, no, no, no, no, no.

01:16:39 When last you saw a man with a firearm

01:16:42 given a sentence by the court that speaks to 10 years,

01:16:47 12 years, 14 years, or anything like that.

01:16:49 Go ahead.

01:16:50 - I don't have the stats on that,

01:16:53 but what I'm seeing-- - Let me say to you.

01:16:55 - I'm seeing they have a lot of men out there with firearms

01:16:59 and they live in somewhere,

01:17:01 and they come in in vehicles and they drive by,

01:17:04 they pull up and they shoot him.

01:17:06 - Paula? - The police don't know.

01:17:07 - We-- - Let me just go back

01:17:09 to Belmont, let me just go back to Belmont.

01:17:11 He comes down the station and he gets killed right there.

01:17:14 What has been the police response to that?

01:17:17 No vehicle, no camera,

01:17:18 that vehicle should have been intercepted.

01:17:20 I just say, I just looking at that incident there.

01:17:24 Are you pleased with that?

01:17:25 - All right, Paula, let me say this again to you.

01:17:27 - Thank you, Paula. - Paula, thank you very much.

01:17:29 The vehicle was in fact found,

01:17:30 and again, investigations are going on.

01:17:34 I cannot reveal to members of the public

01:17:36 whether the police checking the cameras

01:17:37 and what we see and what we saw

01:17:38 and what we didn't see or what we observed,

01:17:40 but I can tell you this,

01:17:41 the investigation is going full speed ahead.

01:17:44 But then let us go back to the situation we're talking about.

01:17:47 So police officers have been putting persons before the court.

01:17:51 We do not tell you at times whether they are gang members

01:17:54 or alleged gang members or gang leaders,

01:17:57 as the case may be,

01:17:58 for firearm offenses, robberies, and different things.

01:18:00 That has not changed.

01:18:03 What, however, happens is that these persons,

01:18:08 they fall victim to the revolving door.

01:18:14 That door that keeps rolling, rolling, rolling, rolling.

01:18:17 So every time you just mentioned that,

01:18:20 you know, keep exercise, we keep exercise.

01:18:22 It's not too strange what you're saying there.

01:18:23 We know where they live.

01:18:24 We search their homes, we search their cars,

01:18:25 we search their girlfriends,

01:18:26 the neighbors under the house,

01:18:28 around the house, in the back,

01:18:29 the door kennel, on top of the tree, and all of that.

01:18:31 And when we, sometimes we detain these persons

01:18:35 with firearms, they are put before the court.

01:18:38 We cannot say, because of the same evidence that we have,

01:18:42 that these persons are alleged gang members

01:18:44 or alleged gang leaders.

01:18:46 But they are placed before the court

01:18:49 for the offenses that they were detained for.

01:18:52 You see?

01:18:53 - Jackie, what we have again?

01:18:58 (Jackie laughs)

01:18:59 We going to a break?

01:19:00 - I don't know, I'm getting serious here.

01:19:01 I don't know why.

01:19:02 - I want to go home.

01:19:03 - You talk like this to people.

01:19:04 - I want to go home.

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01:20:38 (upbeat music)

01:20:41 - You see what?

01:20:48 Right, so Marlon, let us go back to this little piece.

01:20:51 - You really want to go back to, Alexander?

01:20:53 - Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I'm seeing that you,

01:20:56 there's a disconnect between your understanding

01:20:59 of what is required as a citizen

01:21:01 and mine as a police officer.

01:21:04 And I'm saying to you, it's a song,

01:21:06 but it sounds very good in all the believers ears

01:21:08 that you know, when something happens,

01:21:11 yeah, you can just go and grab up someone like that

01:21:13 and put them before a court.

01:21:14 And then you are asked to leave with your prisoner

01:21:18 because you do not have the sufficient evidence

01:21:25 to convict this person, Mr. Hopkins.

01:21:27 - Why, all right, so wait,

01:21:29 why is it that you are unable

01:21:31 to gather the sufficient evidence?

01:21:34 Go ahead.

01:21:35 - Evidence takes everything in a circle.

01:21:40 Every bits and pieces necessary

01:21:42 to paint a particular picture.

01:21:44 - Yes, go ahead.

01:21:45 - And if you have one part of that picture

01:21:48 and not yet the other half, Mr. Hopkins,

01:21:49 it makes no sense.

01:21:50 Treated with persons who guide us,

01:21:54 the director of public prosecution,

01:21:55 he will tell us, go and come again,

01:21:58 go and get this, go and get that,

01:22:00 go and get this, go and get that.

01:22:03 This sometimes is a consuming time exercise, Mr. Hopkins.

01:22:06 You don't understand.

01:22:07 Persons feel that, you know,

01:22:08 you can just walk in today and get this, no.

01:22:11 Sometimes you have to talk to persons.

01:22:14 Sometimes you have to get the scientific

01:22:17 and technical evidence available to you

01:22:18 and all of these things.

01:22:19 So, Mr. Hopkins, it's not a walk in the park

01:22:22 like some persons think it is.

01:22:23 - Alexander.

01:22:24 - And because you don't understand,

01:22:25 you think it's a walk in the park.

01:22:27 - Alexander.

01:22:28 - So?

01:22:29 - I understand everything that you're saying.

01:22:31 - You're shocked?

01:22:32 - I, but here's what.

01:22:35 I'm giving you a maximum of 12 months, right?

01:22:40 If I was one of your superiors,

01:22:45 I'm going to say, Alexander,

01:22:47 I'm giving you 12 months to gather

01:22:52 evidence on individuals.

01:22:55 12 months.

01:22:56 - 12 months.

01:22:57 - It cannot be, and to me,

01:22:59 that may be a sufficient time,

01:23:03 but I can't give you two years, three years,

01:23:06 four years, 10 years,

01:23:08 and then the same names are coming up

01:23:13 over and over and over.

01:23:16 - The same names coming up,

01:23:18 calling the shots,

01:23:20 or the same names calling, doing the crime?

01:23:23 Go ahead.

01:23:23 - Both.

01:23:26 - Mr. Hopkinson, you have to understand this.

01:23:28 I know it is difficult because you're looking at it

01:23:30 from a civilian point of view.

01:23:33 - But it is the civilian who matters.

01:23:35 It is if it's civilian who matters.

01:23:38 - You're saying that conversation in the wrong direction.

01:23:41 That is not for law enforcement.

01:23:42 Mr. Hopkinson.

01:23:45 - Alexander, you see this?

01:23:46 This is going too well, you know.

01:23:48 (laughing)

01:23:49 I am calling for peace talks right now.

01:23:52 We need to get-

01:23:53 - I know in the morning,

01:23:54 the two gentlemen will try to bite into things.

01:23:57 'Cause that's what they'll do.

01:23:58 But let me say this again, Mr. Hopkinson.

01:24:00 Understand what I'm saying to you.

01:24:01 - This is the evidence on you, you know, Alexander.

01:24:03 - Yeah, well I-

01:24:04 - This is it.

01:24:05 This is it, you know.

01:24:06 This is it.

01:24:07 - I know enough, you know.

01:24:08 - This is just a part of the dossier, you know.

01:24:09 - Huh?

01:24:10 - Go ahead. - Let me tell you this.

01:24:12 Mr. Hopkinson, understand and reach me here.

01:24:15 When Corporal Ali comes on Wednesday, God willing,

01:24:18 we will try to-

01:24:19 - Corporal Ali, he'll train you under the bus.

01:24:21 - Yeah, we'll try to explain this in a way

01:24:23 that he can explain this in its entirety.

01:24:24 You all don't understand what is required.

01:24:28 And think that we could just respond to things like that.

01:24:31 There's a difference between something happening

01:24:33 in the presence of the police officer,

01:24:35 where the police officer make that observation

01:24:37 and can treat it something he haven't know.

01:24:39 And something that he has to investigate, Mr. Hopkinson.

01:24:41 - Alexander.

01:24:42 - Yes, sir.

01:24:43 - Your time has run out.

01:24:47 - Our time?

01:24:48 - Not here, you know.

01:24:49 The police's time.

01:24:51 The government's time.

01:24:52 - You know what is amazing though?

01:24:53 - Opposition's time.

01:24:55 Everybody's time.

01:24:56 - You know what is amazing, Mr. Hopkinson?

01:24:57 - Has run out to deal with crime.

01:24:58 - You know what is amazing?

01:24:59 - What is amazing?

01:25:00 - You all make those statements

01:25:02 and say that the time run out.

01:25:04 But the question is,

01:25:05 what have you all done to change things?

01:25:08 - Repeat tonight at 11.30.

01:25:10 Repeat tomorrow morning at 11 o'clock

01:25:11 when TV6 News comes up next.

01:25:13 See you at six o'clock in the morning.

01:25:16 - I think I'll have high blood pressure.

01:25:18 (laughing)

01:25:20 (upbeat music)

01:25:22 (electronic music)

01:25:25 (electronic music)

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