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02:52Good evening, Trinidad and Tobago, and welcome to Beyond the Tape.
03:07My name is Whitney Husband.
03:09This evening, we'll be speaking heavily on fraud and the different types of fraud that we see being committed throughout Trinidad and Tobago,
03:17and how we can protect ourselves when it comes to persons who are trying to defraud us in many ways.
03:23So with that, I'd like to welcome on the show our attorney-at-law, and also from the Fraud Squad, Sergeant Bazarath.
03:29And we'd like to welcome you this evening, sir.
03:31And how are you?
03:32Very well, ma'am.
03:33Thank you for having me.
03:34And let me bring greetings from the Office of the Assistant Commissioner, White Collar, Mr. Kurt Simon, and our senior suit, Ms. Pauline Phillips.
03:40Now, tell us a little bit more about the Fraud Squad unit and what you'll really target.
03:46Because when we hear fraud, fraud is very broad.
03:48Correct.
03:49Well, the Fraud Squad is one of the older institutions in the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.
03:52It was created in 1965.
03:55And our Fraud Squad, which is an arm of the White Collar Division, together with FIB and ACIB, we more target White Collar investigations.
04:03And what is White Collar investigations?
04:06Anything to do with theft of money, deception, fraud, as you said.
04:11And it ranges from land fraud to fraud on checks to ABM fraud.
04:17And let me just say one time that, you know, we entertain fraud by reports by different means, by walk-ins, by correspondence, by emails, by telephone messages.
04:28So the public has 24 access, 24 access to the Fraud Squad.
04:33So if anything that smells like, or resembles, or feels like.
04:38Come to us.
04:39Make sure, because more than likely it is.
04:41Yes, it is.
04:42Something is wrong.
04:43Yes, yes it is.
04:44And your spidey senses never lead you wrong.
04:45Never so far.
04:46Yes?
04:47Yes.
04:48All right.
04:49So at this time, let's take a look at what made the headlines over the weekend and the last 24 hours.
05:03The White Collar Investigations
05:33The White Collar Investigations
06:03The White Collar Investigations
06:08Now, before we dive straight into what made the headlines, let's dive in a little bit more with regards to the Fraud Squad unit and some of the most prominent offences that you're seeing happening within fraud in general.
06:21Yes.
06:22Well, somebody for over the last two years, we have observed nearly about six reports, six types of reports.
06:29One of the reports is the purchase of land and property.
06:32A lot of citizens are contacted by persons and they spend their hard-earned money for properties that are simply misrepresented by these fraudsters.
06:44And, of course, we also advise, and I'm going to say it one time, due diligence.
06:48Do your verification.
06:50Check these properties.
06:52The law demands that every type of purchase or sale of land must be evidenced in writing.
06:58Prepare sales agreements.
07:00Go by a reputable attorney.
07:02Have a proper title search done.
07:04Verify.
07:06And we also advise, go to the neighbourhood where you want to visit the parcel of land.
07:11Normally, there are persons who are living there for 40 and 50 years and they know everything about the property.
07:16I mean, that is a definite.
07:17It's Trinidad.
07:18Yes.
07:19So, speak to them.
07:20They will be able to tell you, you know, three generations ago, who owned this parcel of land.
07:25So, these are the little things, you know.
07:27We have seen a resurgence of loan fraud.
07:30And you may ask, what is loan fraud?
07:32Yes.
07:33And loan fraud, very simply, is persons are going to the banks, financial institutions, and applying for loans.
07:39And they are presenting fraudulent job letters, fraudulent pay slips, fraudulent utility bills, and they are applying for loans.
07:47And sometimes, I mean, you know, the documents are done so perfectly.
07:51Because the ID cards, the driver's permits are also fraudulent.
07:54And they get through the loan.
07:56And of course, if they get 50,000 or 100,000, that's it.
08:00There is no repayment after that.
08:02Yes.
08:03Because it's ghost.
08:04Of course.
08:05It doesn't exist.
08:06Of course.
08:07ABM fraud, credit card fraud.
08:08You're skipping off the cards.
08:09Yes.
08:10It's still there.
08:11What we have noticed in the last six months is that in doing the investigations and getting the footage from the banks and so on, who are our stakeholders,
08:19we have seen that a lot of persons who have used the cards fraudulently are, guess what, family members, are persons who are known to them.
08:29So this is why sometimes the banks, you know, they reiterate, don't share your pin.
08:34Yes.
08:35Right?
08:36I mean, it's a sad society where we live in, where we can't even trust our own family.
08:39Yes.
08:40So it's persons who are the individuals themselves are defrauding the said banks.
08:46When I say so, they are using their name, their card, everything, they know the pin, and stating that they never received money when they went to the ATM.
08:55Yes.
08:56And money was taken, thinking that the cameras there don't work.
08:58Correct.
08:59It doesn't operate.
09:00It doesn't function.
09:01And then make a report.
09:03Well, a couple years ago, right, we called it the blank envelope scheme.
09:09When there was a little, I want to say a little technicality, and persons were able to deposit a blank envelope into the ATM.
09:17The money would register immediately.
09:19Yes.
09:20I don't know if you recall.
09:21Yes.
09:22And we were able to withdraw sums of $3,000.
09:23Yes.
09:24So what I'm saying is that for those who believe that there is no justice, justice is there.
09:29Because any time you indulge yourself in financial issues and so on, a financial fingerprint is created.
09:37So it just takes a little longer for us, but we will find you.
09:41Yes.
09:42We will find you.
09:43Well, this is very interesting, and we're going to dive in more, because I know a lot of us may be caught in that web, and those who are not, you don't want to get caught in that web.
09:51So this time, we go to a video that's a bit graphic and disturbing.
09:55This was caught on camera in the Bataria area at 6th Avenue.
10:00So please, if your discretion is advised.
10:07Now, it seems like either the person knows this individual or is waiting to receive something from someone.
10:14Correct.
10:15He feels very comfortable.
10:16Yes.
10:18Because he's walking towards the vehicle, and he seems very casual about it.
10:24Yeah.
10:25And then this happens.
10:26He's on time with that.
10:28Now, we could only assume here, and I know that ETTPS is dealing with the situation.
10:34Yes, it is.
10:36You know, sometimes persons may purchase items online, and they will say, okay, well, send me a location, I'll drop off the items.
10:45All these things could happen to anyone.
10:47Correct.
10:48You know, and condolences to the family here with regards to that incident that took place.
10:52But how are we to be mindful when persons maybe have an online store, online business?
10:58Yes.
10:59Because, you know, they say I have an online store.
11:00Correct, correct.
11:01And I want to purchase some clothing.
11:03Well, long ago, we always said location, location, location.
11:07And that was the productivity of the business.
11:10But I am seeing it now.
11:12Location, location, location for the safety of yourself.
11:16So, have any online stores.
11:17That's not an issue because a lot of times we go on Facebook and other social medias, and we're able to get items so much cheaper.
11:23Yeah?
11:24Ask the person to meet you at the police station.
11:27Visit, you know, in areas where you feel safe.
11:30Yes.
11:31Don't go in isolated areas that you, for one, you don't know.
11:35And I'm saying to the members of the public, if you're buying something, and the seller says, listen, meet me at XYZ,
11:44and you have to ask, okay, where is that?
11:45And he says, okay, I'll send you a location.
11:47Then that should be a red flag.
11:49Yeah.
11:50Now, just to be clear, the video that we showed in no way, shape, or form is anything related to what we are seeing here.
11:56Yes, correct.
11:57We are just seeing scenarios because it's fraud and how persons can get caught in a situation.
12:01But in no way, that video coincides with what we are speaking of here.
12:06Now, there was a Arte Adipayako intersection.
12:10And this is an area that many persons, you have to be very careful.
12:14Of course.
12:15Even though there are many lights, and the lights are there to direct, things happen.
12:20And you can see here where a disturbing video of a truck, and we spoke of this already with Sergeant Batson.
12:30Okay.
12:31And understanding the importance of the trucks and how they could see, and how could they see when it comes to blind spots while they're in the vehicle.
12:39Not just the vehicle, but in the truck itself.
12:42And you see, this is where having responsibility as a road user and as a driver comes in.
12:50Because despite, we have to understand that all vehicles are mechanical instruments.
12:54Yes.
12:55And yes, we may have control, but it's still being driven and applied and operated by humans.
13:00So, we have to be mindful of, you know, using the road and other road users.
13:05Now, there was another Arte said to be in the Tooruba area.
13:09And this here was, I'm hoping that no one's life was taken.
13:20Wow.
13:21And it's the speed of the both vehicles.
13:23Both vehicles.
13:24And not to prejudice any investigation, but, I mean, the lighting is probably bad for us that we can't see demarcations as it relates to stop signs and so on.
13:32But this is an intersection.
13:34Yes.
13:35And both vehicles.
13:36Should stop.
13:37None of them gave way.
13:39They continued at the same speed.
13:41And if you look at the video, you'll see that there's no application of brakes.
13:45So, drivers, we need to be careful out there.
13:49We need to exercise due care and attention while it's on the road.
13:53Because we are not the only road users.
13:55And in this case, even though where you see the sign that says no right turn.
13:59Yes.
14:00And there's supposed to be one party stopping.
14:02Correct.
14:03In my, just common sense from what I'm observing here, I'm assuming where the sign is that person should stop.
14:10Correct.
14:11Because that's the main road.
14:12And even if you look with me, the road seems to have a blind spot.
14:17Yes.
14:18So, you're approaching an intersection.
14:19And good driving sense will dictate.
14:22Let me slow down.
14:23Caution.
14:24Caution.
14:25Defensive driving.
14:26Correct.
14:27Is a must.
14:28I think many of us don't practice it.
14:29I would not lie.
14:30I did it because I was getting a discount on my insurance.
14:33And it actually helped me in a major way because I'm able to be aware and cautious.
14:38Correct.
14:39Of things happening around me while I'm on the road.
14:41Now, there was a situation where persons, I don't know how much you could talk on it.
14:50And if this is the case, and how are you all dealing with it?
14:52We'll purchase a vehicle and then report it stolen.
14:57Right?
14:59And when the vehicle is reported stolen, some persons say, but this vehicle looks familiar.
15:05Right.
15:06But then they receive the monies from the insurance because a report was made.
15:09Everything had to go to the police, make a report.
15:12They park the car and so on.
15:13So, location, the car's gone, can't get the car back.
15:16But the insurance is able to pay out.
15:18Yes.
15:19But eventually the car was not stolen.
15:20Yes.
15:21Well, in that scenario there are a number of issues.
15:24Making a false report to the police, you could be charged for wasteful employment.
15:29That is one.
15:30Then when you submit a claim to the insurance company and you lie on that claim,
15:34which means the representation you make to the insurance company is false,
15:37you could then be charged.
15:39And then the monies you receive as proceeds of the claim,
15:42which means you obtained that money by fraud,
15:45you could be charged again.
15:47And what persons don't seem to realize now,
15:49and it's something that is a drive by our system commissioner of police, Mr. Kurt Simon,
15:54that the Forrester and the other arms, the FIB and the ECIB,
15:59will now be looking to seek advice from the DPP to charge these persons for money laundering offences.
16:05Oh, so that will be because you're receiving money.
16:08Yes, of course.
16:09So, any proceeds that you receive that you ought to know or you knew that came from criminal conduct,
16:15you'll be charged for money laundering.
16:18And this is the step further that the White Collar Division is trying to implement.
16:22From 2023 to present, we have laid 270 charges at the Forrester Court for money laundering.
16:29My brothers at FIB and ECIB have done quite the same.
16:32I apologize, I don't have the figures.
16:35But that drive is to send a message to persons who want to continue illicit activities
16:43and continue to commit crime, especially under the White Collar Division,
16:47is that we are now going to take it a step further.
16:50So, in addition to the original offences, we are going to look at the money laundering,
16:54and also there's something called restraint,
16:57where we are now going to go to the court on the advice of the DPP and restrain your property.
17:03So, you are no longer going to commit crime, get money, and live lavishly in your house.
17:09No, we are going to restrain your house.
17:11We are going to try and restrain your property.
17:13And I think that vision of the ECB is what is required to put a clamp on these criminals
17:20who feel that they can commit crime, get bail, come out the next day, and there is no repercussions.
17:25No, the White Collar Division is saying, listen, it stops here,
17:28and we are going to increase our investigations and lay charges accordingly.
17:33Okay. We need to take a break. When we come back, we'll continue with more.
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18:52And we are back.
19:09We have Sergeant Bazarath here with us.
19:11I'm also attorney at law representing the TTPS.
19:14And you have the opportunity to also give us a call at 623-1711.
19:19Extension 1992, 1993, and 1997.
19:23Now Sergeant, when it comes to certain crimes within the fraud unit,
19:30what are the things that you're seeing that you never saw before popping up on your radar?
19:36Well, I'll tell you this much.
19:37I think at first we have seen everything under the sun.
19:41However, over the last two, three years, we have started to see a lot of Internet fraud.
19:49And let me explain.
19:50The Internet fraud, and I think my colleagues on the first court would have reacted to this already.
19:54We have the Romeo and Juliet schemes.
19:57Yes.
19:58Right? And I'm saying Juliet now.
19:59Yeah, because.
20:00Because some men are now affected.
20:02Well, in a major way.
20:04In a major way.
20:05So before we only had Romeo reports.
20:07Now apparently the men are catching on, so now we have Juliet reports.
20:10And, of course, I'm saying to these persons that we are befriending persons via these social media platforms and so on.
20:17And the chance of love or the chance of affection, the chance of friendship.
20:22But subsequently there's a demand for money.
20:25And with me sometimes the sums that are paid out ranges $50,000, $100,000, $200,000.
20:33And we as citizens need to exercise, again,
20:39I don't want to say common sense, but I want to say we need to.
20:41Say it.
20:42You can say it.
20:44Because it's not so common when it comes to that.
20:46We need to understand.
20:47And I'm saying to persons, if sometimes that we are confused or we are uncertain or unsure about something, reach out to a friend.
20:56Reach out to a family member.
20:57Say, hey, does this make sense to you?
21:00Yeah.
21:01Reach out to the fraud squad and we will advise you.
21:05Another thing, this rent-to-own, work-to-own.
21:08How does that work?
21:10Yeah.
21:11Right.
21:12So a lot of persons we have seen on Facebook advertising vehicles.
21:14Now, let me say on record, there are legitimate businesses where you have work-to-own and rent-to-own.
21:21They are legitimate businesses.
21:22But they are also copycats.
21:24So we have a number of persons posting vehicles.
21:27And the sad thing with me is that they are taking vehicles from other sites.
21:31They are copying logos, changing logos slightly to mirror the real good business.
21:36And they are saying, listen, I have, I'm just saying, an AD wagon for sale.
21:40$50,000.
21:42The down payment is $5,000.
21:44Go to account number 1, 2, 3, 4.
21:46And citizens, come on.
21:48We have never seen this person before.
21:51Never popped up.
21:52We have never seen the car.
21:54We don't know even if the car exists.
21:56We have never test driven the car.
21:58In a long time, my grandfather said, buy what you can see.
22:02Yes.
22:03Not even a mechanic was able to test it.
22:04So they go and they pay their $5,000.
22:06They go, they pay their $10,000 into the account.
22:08And once that money reaches the account, that's it.
22:10Yes.
22:11Now, I mean, yes, come to us.
22:14Because that is the mandate of the fraud squad.
22:16Come to us.
22:17We will entertain the report.
22:18But when you come to entertain the report, remember now, law enforcement is now tasked with the responsibility of working backwards.
22:25Because here it is, we have no suspect.
22:28So we have to go to the bank, see who account the money went into, and start from reverse.
22:33Follow the money.
22:34But it takes a little time.
22:36It takes a little time.
22:37We have a call on the line.
22:38Let's take that call at this time.
22:39Hello.
22:40Good evening.
22:41Hi.
22:42Good evening.
22:43You with me?
22:44Good evening, sir.
22:45Good evening, Sergeant Basara.
22:46So nice to see you on television.
22:49Thank you, sir.
22:50How are you?
22:51I'm okay, sir.
22:52All right.
22:53And I'm glad that we have a reflection of the CPPF, you know, so that we know that we
22:58have professionals that pursue academic pursuits in terms of the procedurality and law degree,
23:06that's all.
23:07Thank you, sir.
23:08Mr. Basara?
23:09Yes, sir?
23:10Back in the day, we used to come across a lot of ATM fraud.
23:18And in particular, some of our neighbors who have been embraced within the last few years
23:26here, a large bit of them have been the ones perpetrating ATM and card fraud.
23:32Have you seen an increase?
23:34And I'll jockey back in on Whitney's point.
23:36Have you seen an increase with them coming here more?
23:40And I'm not casting any exposures, right?
23:44Have you all seen an increase in that?
23:47And the other thing is, if you would advise the public, I know a large bit of people just
23:56because they get a receipt.
23:58Yes, we have a receipt, and we have a receipt, and we have a picture.
24:01But more so a receipt.
24:03They know it wrong.
24:04They know something wrong with it.
24:06They know it's too good to be true.
24:08But I get a receipt.
24:09So now I have proof.
24:11Does it help at all in terms of, you know what I'm saying?
24:14There's an overall, that overall knowledge and that common sense approach that the public
24:20may, you may want to encourage the public, you know, engage in.
24:24If it smells wrong, it looks wrong, it's too good to be true, now because you have a receipt
24:28now and you can show the police.
24:30You know, it takes away the fact that you would be caught.
24:33Yeah?
24:34Yes, thank you, sir.
24:35That's my contribution.
24:37Thank you, sir.
24:38So we'll start with what he asked with the ATM and the immigrants who are here, if we're
24:44seeing.
24:45As he said, not targeting.
24:48Fantastic question.
24:49I'll answer the question this way.
24:52In 2015 to 2018, Mr. Dukie, Donald Dukie was the then senior supervisor of the First World.
25:00And under his stewardship, we encountered a lot of foreigners who were part and parcel
25:09of EBM and credit card fraud.
25:11And these foreigners stem from international waters, Europe, right?
25:17I'm not going to quote any countries, right?
25:20Yes, of late, we have some foreigners, some migrants from a different country.
25:27About a year and a half ago, there was a video circulated on social media with officers
25:33from fraud squad.
25:34Arrested.
25:35Yes, led by Corporal Terence Norbert.
25:37He was the head of the EBM Task Force.
25:39I think that was in the malls.
25:40Yes.
25:41In a mall, yeah.
25:42And Mr. Norbert and his party did some excellent work and they arrested some immigrants from
25:47South America, right, who were part and parcel of that fraud.
25:52I cannot say with any certainty or any commitment that the fraud has been increased based on
25:58their popularity.
25:59But what I can say is that EBM fraud has been around a while.
26:03It continues to plague our society.
26:06And of course, what we need to do is exercise due diligence with the usage of our cards
26:12and so on.
26:13Now, I know you said with fraud, it deals with more white collar crimes.
26:18Yes.
26:19And you mentioned some of them already.
26:20Yes.
26:21And you touched on one that is something that, you know, has made the headlines in a major
26:26way.
26:27And where are we with that?
26:28With persons who are evading PIR and tax and, you know, how that goes.
26:33Because they feel entitled enough, I'm assuming, that they don't need to pay the state any
26:37sort of monies in any way, shape or form.
26:39I believe we have a call.
26:40So, we'll take that call at this time.
26:42Yes, please.
26:43And we will dive back into that shortly.
26:45Hello.
26:46Good evening.
26:47Hi.
26:48Good evening.
26:49Good evening.
26:50In terms of fraud, in terms of Facebook marketplace, there are a lot of people that are getting
26:56scammed, you know, and stuff.
26:59Would it be possible to provide a location where people could do transactions and the
27:08government charge them a fee or something?
27:11Because every single day, I mean, folks tend to be spending their last dollar to purchase
27:18whatever, you know.
27:19So, I'm just...
27:20It's just an option.
27:21It might be the best one, but it's just to alleviate frauds who are having, you know,
27:30a lot of work to do.
27:33So, just a location where they can handle transactions and the government charge a fee
27:40or something along those lines.
27:43So, I'll listen.
27:44I'll have my final say.
27:46Okay.
27:47I will allow you to speak on that because I spoke on this.
27:49Yes.
27:50It'll be blue.
27:51So, you'll be able to speak on it.
27:52Well, first of all, I want to thank you for acknowledging for us to have a lot of work.
27:55Yeah.
27:56That is fantastic.
27:57The suggestion is not a bad one.
28:00I will say that it's not a bad one, but like we discussed earlier, in the interim, Whitney,
28:05go to a place that is somewhat safe.
28:08Go to the stations.
28:10The police station has compounds.
28:11You know, you could just go there.
28:12It can inform you of service.
28:14I purchased something.
28:15You know, for the time being, until something better could be done.
28:18Yeah.
28:19Utilize what we have.
28:20And I'm saying, you know, there are nine station districts all over Trinidad and Tobago.
28:25Visit the police station.
28:27Inform you of service.
28:28And I bought something.
28:29I just want to, you know, stay here for two.
28:31You know, and that's it.
28:32And if the person I'm saying, if the seller is not minded to acquiesce to your request,
28:40then that should be a red flag to indicate that, listen, perhaps he's not of the best conduct.
28:46Yeah.
28:47To conduct business.
28:48Correct.
28:49But I will say this before we go to very quickly.
28:51There are institutions that you could go to that the same way if you want to pay for safety,
28:57when you pay a higher purchase, that kind of helps too.
28:59And if you already have that sum of money, you could pay down and you're paying less.
29:03And you could go to a financial institution to assist, to make sure that you are safe and you get the item
29:08that you're paying your hard money for.
29:10We'll be back.
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30:41Four locations nationwide.
30:52And we are back in Bamiki.
30:54Give us a call at 623-1711.
30:56Extension 1992, 1993, and 1997.
31:01With us we have our attorney-at-law from the fraud squad, Sergeant Bazarath.
31:05And I know the phone lines are open and we'll be taking a call maybe later on.
31:09But let's talk on what I mentioned.
31:11Persons who are evading paying BIR.
31:14Their taxes.
31:15Those things that the state, we all, we all have to pay.
31:19And we have seen in the headlines business women and men who have been owing the state millions of dollars.
31:26And is there justice?
31:29Are we seeing it?
31:30Or is it because of where they sit on the financial pyramid?
31:34It seems like no one is being, you know.
31:38Held accountable.
31:39Held accountable for what they have done.
31:41Well, thankfully, again, there is a criminal tax unit.
31:46And I think together with them and the combined effort of the Anti-Corruption Bureau.
31:51Recently, quite recently, somebody was arrested and charged and so on.
31:56Which to me sent a message that, listen, you cannot be so high that you cannot fall.
32:02So I'm saying that the criminal tax unit and the ACIB unit right now.
32:06And together with the FIB.
32:08Because they do financial checks and so on, right?
32:10They are.
32:11They are doing their work.
32:13And we have seen some successes recently.
32:16So to answer your question, I am certain.
32:18I don't want to commit, but I'm certain.
32:20There would be exposure to these persons very soon.
32:24And there would be some arrests and so on.
32:26But like I said, it has happened quite recently.
32:29So the system is in place.
32:31And clearly the system is working.
32:33So if someone is convicted for evading, paying their taxes in Trinidad and Tobago.
32:38What happens next after the conviction?
32:41Well, a custodial sentence.
32:43It all comes down to the magistrate or the judge, right?
32:46There is a custodial sentence that could be implemented.
32:49And don't quote me.
32:51I stand to be corrected.
32:53But I think it's between five to ten years.
32:55That is all or and?
32:57No, five years, right?
32:58Okay.
32:59Is it all and with?
33:01Well, it all comes down to the discretion of the magistrate or the master.
33:06So they could implement.
33:08Okay.
33:09I hope it will be like a slap on the wrist.
33:11It depends, I guess, on how much you pay.
33:13And this is why I mentioned earlier.
33:15Under our guidance and mandate from Mr. Simon.
33:18The money laundering and the restraint.
33:21That is where we will hit persons hardest.
33:24Because you can't take money and build a $10 million house.
33:28And then you get bail, Whitney.
33:30And you go back and you swim in your swimming pool and you have a good time.
33:33No.
33:34We are now going to do restraint on your property to give you a little pinch.
33:39We have a call on the line.
33:40Let's take that call.
33:41Hello.
33:42Good evening.
33:43Hi.
33:44Good evening.
33:45Good evening, ma'am.
33:46Hi.
33:47Good evening.
33:49I want to talk about a relative of mine went to make a report in the station.
33:55An elderly lady.
33:57And they gave her a piece of paper and told her to go on the line.
34:02And I guess, I don't know.
34:07Okay.
34:08Just now.
34:09Okay.
34:10Hold on.
34:11The individual went to a police station?
34:14Yes.
34:15To make a report.
34:16Okay.
34:17All right.
34:18She made a report of someone came.
34:21But they gave her a piece of paper and told her to go on the line.
34:26And she don't know what to do.
34:29And she tried to explain to me and I don't know what to do.
34:32So the report was made.
34:33So that they can deal with the elderly people.
34:36Because, remember, they are not, some people, literate with these things.
34:42All right.
34:43What police station is it?
34:45All right.
34:48And it was a report made on someone at the station
34:51or to someone she was going to make the report to?
34:55To make a report on someone in the station.
34:59Oh, so it's an officer.
35:01Yes.
35:02Okay.
35:03She went to make the report in the station on somebody.
35:05And they gave her a piece of paper and told her to go on the line.
35:11But I don't understand it.
35:13You know?
35:14Okay.
35:15Sometimes elderly person could be, they don't know the state.
35:18They need to fix that afterwards.
35:21All right.
35:24Sergeant, you need to make it clear for what she said.
35:27I think it's a report against a police officer.
35:30Yes.
35:31That was being made.
35:32And the officer who was there, who was interacting with the elderly woman,
35:36stated they need to go on the line and make the report.
35:38So they gave her the ring around without telling her, go your way, basically.
35:42At any station, there are policies and procedures.
35:46If a member of the public, citizen of Trinidad and Tobago,
35:50wishes to make a report against the police, right,
35:52we can't turn them away.
35:54It's as simple as that.
35:55Right?
35:56In addition to that, I'm not going to be advocating,
35:59but what I'm saying is that we have a police complaints authority, right,
36:03an internal police complaints authority at Marko building.
36:06And in addition, there's PCA complaints, Mr. David West.
36:11So I think she could visit any one of them.
36:13But if, I mean, it's an elderly woman.
36:15Yeah.
36:16And this situation has happened.
36:17She's unable to get there unless someone is taking her.
36:19She has family members.
36:20I'm not sure.
36:21But what could someone do, especially the elderly,
36:24because they are taken advantage of in a major way.
36:26We are seeing a lot of them dying as well,
36:28persons invading their homes and killing them for their items.
36:32If you're making a report on a police officer,
36:36Well, then what I would advise,
36:38that each division has an office of a senior superintendent,
36:42superintendent and maybe two or three ASPs.
36:44If it is that she feels that justice, she did not get justice there,
36:48then make an appointment to the office of your senior superintendent
36:51and bring your complaint there.
36:54Because ultimately he or she, whoever the senior super is,
36:58is in charge of the division.
36:59Yes.
37:00Yeah.
37:01Before we go to that call quickly, just to be clear,
37:02you can make a report online, yes or no?
37:04Yes.
37:05Yes, you can.
37:06Yes, you can.
37:07So you could?
37:08Yes.
37:09By email.
37:10You can make a report by email.
37:11At the first call, the emails come to our chief clerk office.
37:14And of course, that will be sent to the investigative unit.
37:16Okay.
37:17More or less, it will be the same format for all divisions.
37:21So I could go right now and make a report?
37:23Yes.
37:24What you need then?
37:25You need the officer's ID?
37:26Or you just make the report on a...
37:28Exactly.
37:29You make a report on a particular issue,
37:31address it to the respective email.
37:33For instance, central division will have their own email.
37:35First squad has their own email.
37:36You make it to attention, senior super, as the case may be,
37:39and you put your contents, contact number and so on,
37:41and definitely somebody will call you to verify the contents
37:45and invite you to record a statement and so on.
37:47So is there a period in which you have to receive that call
37:51to verify the information?
37:54I want to say with no, right?
37:57I mean, different units may have different procedures.
38:01At least for the first squad,
38:02our chief clerk handles that on a daily basis.
38:04So if you send an email today, our chief clerk is very efficient.
38:08So by the very next day, within a 24-hour period,
38:10she will respond, indicating,
38:12and she will also seek the advice of the legal officer
38:15or a competent senior officer to identify,
38:19okay, if this is an issue for us,
38:21and she will also call or send an email to advise them accordingly.
38:25But I can't say what each division will time a lot.
38:30But at least for the first squad, we have a 24-hour mandate that we deal with.
38:33All right.
38:34Well, I just wanted to make sure that's clear
38:35that persons could make a report online via the TTPS portal
38:40when it comes to any issues that they have.
38:43All right.
38:44We'll take a break.
38:45We'll be back.
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40:28Edification.
40:29Two weeks ago, under the leadership of our senior supervisor, Pauline Phillips,
40:36we embarked on a legal aid clinic throughout the entire country.
40:40Yes.
40:41Officers were assigned different boots,
40:43and of course what they did was edify members of the public
40:47as it leads to fraud and fraud tips and so on.
40:49And perhaps they even answered questions that were not related to fraud.
40:53So the first thing we did was edification.
40:56And when I say edification, let's look at the HCC syndrome.
41:00You go to the website, read the instructions,
41:04and HCC, one of the major things HCC keeps saying,
41:08do not pay money to any individuals outside of HCC.
41:13Meaning, which we have seen,
41:16you don't mean you can park up outside and then pay someone outside the HCC.
41:22Go into the HCC with an agent of HCC, pay the money there.
41:26So edification.
41:27So you see, once you know the processes,
41:29you will know if somebody tells you something,
41:32they are actually an ultraviolet.
41:33And you know for sure, listen, something is wrong.
41:36Due diligence.
41:38Due diligence.
41:39Same thing we were saying with you, you want to buy a parcel of land.
41:43Visit the parcel of land.
41:45Find out from persons, do your title search.
41:49Verify.
41:50Verify.
41:51Verify until you can't verify anymore.
41:54And the last thing, never be in a hurry.
41:59Never be in a hurry.
42:01You need raw meat.
42:02Old people say what is for you is for you.
42:04But never be in a hurry.
42:05Take these three steps.
42:07Edify yourself.
42:08Do your due diligence.
42:10Verify your diligence work.
42:12And when you are satisfied, then and only then, commit to payment.
42:17Yes, and have a lawyer present.
42:19We have another call.
42:20Hello, good evening.
42:22Yes.
42:24Good evening.
42:25Good evening.
42:26Good evening to the presenters.
42:29This call is on follow-up.
42:32Ma'am, one second.
42:33Excuse me.
42:34Could you mute your television first, please, so we can hear you?
42:42Yes, this is a follow-up.
42:45It was shown recently with the blind spot and the two vehicles that crashed.
42:50On Rail Street, which is in San Juan, it's a street that runs parallel to the Eastern Main Road.
42:56So it's a pretty busy street where people, if they may know this block, people use this street.
43:02And right at the corner of this street and the connection of Hislop Street, which is Hislop and Brown Street,
43:09which is like two blocks from the police station,
43:11there are wreckers that are parked there that create real obstruction.
43:18Sometimes vehicles can't pass.
43:20Sometimes a rubbish truck can't pass.
43:22And these wreckers are parked there on Rail Street.
43:27Some of them are on Hislop Street, but it creates a real hassle for traffic.
43:34Okay.
43:39We have to send that to Sergeant Batson to deal with that.
43:43Because this will cause accidents, especially if it's a blind spot in the San Juan area.
43:47And then individuals who are trying to maneuver will cause a serious backup of traffic,
43:53which then leads to inconvenience, frustration, and then could lead to accidents.
43:57Correct. Very much so. And it's good information.
43:59Yes. So thank you for that, Nicola.
44:01And I'm sure we will send that information off to deal with that moving forward.
44:07Now, money laundering.
44:09We have another call, so I don't want to have the caller waiting.
44:13So let's head back to the phone lines.
44:15Thank you, Jackie. Hello?
44:17Hello?
44:18Yes, sir. Go ahead.
44:20Yes. Good afternoon.
44:22Is this the officer again from the short spot?
44:25Yes, sir.
44:27Uh-huh.
44:29I wanted to find out why you matter.
44:32I have some matters with him.
44:34It's taking so very long to process and so.
44:38When you made the report to the fraud squad, sir?
44:42Like two years, three years and so.
44:44And nothing is being done.
44:46Yeah.
44:48All right. We'll have to take your information off here.
44:53All right. Thank you.
44:56How could persons get feedback in this case?
44:58Like this gentleman is saying two, three years waiting for...
45:01Right now, the fraud squad has a registry department.
45:05Our registry department is a department tasked with the responsibility when reports are made,
45:09that reports will be sent to the registry, documented, and so on.
45:12Right?
45:13Of course, I don't know of his matters, so I can't say.
45:17Yes, yes, yes.
45:18Right? But we'll put up the phone numbers afterwards, and you can call the registry department
45:22just to find out and ascertain the status of the investigation.
45:25Yeah, because I think sometimes, as you mentioned before,
45:27that when an investigation is happening, the fraud is a little bit different.
45:30It takes a little more time.
45:31Yes, yes.
45:32But the most important thing is feedback.
45:34Correct. I agree.
45:35And feedback helps persons not feel like they are forgotten.
45:38Correct. I agree.
45:39I'm not saying you're pampering them or you're almost like pacifying the situation,
45:44but it would give an opportunity to the peace of mind of the victim
45:50that something is being done.
45:52Yes, I agree.
45:53And that is communicated with them.
45:54I agree.
45:55Yeah? So with that information there, I'm sure we should be able to see
45:58or we could assist the gentleman and others when it comes to the numbers.
46:02So speaking of numbers, could we touch on some of the information
46:06that persons could reach out if situations may happen to them?
46:10Yes, of course.
46:11Well, the Portisbane office, right?
46:14We have moved from, we are now at the IRD building, 6th floor,
46:19Ajax Street, Portisbane, and all the numbers begin with 612-2470,
46:26the extension for the Portisbane office is 15020,
46:31the San Fernando office is located at the corner of Manchaga and Unshackled Street in San Fernando,
46:36again 612-2470, extension 40150.
46:43We have an East office, which is located in the San Diego and the police station,
46:47we've been housed there.
46:48Again, number 612-2470, extension 71074.
46:55And we have a Tobago office, finally, about a year ago,
47:00housed at the Chauvin police station.
47:02Numbers there are 612-2470, extension 14139.
47:08We have another call, so let's take that call. Hello, good evening.
47:14Alright, so I know you mentioned in the Tobago area, we'll take back that call shortly,
47:19which is good, I'm not sure what, because we're seeing the increase in criminal activities happening in the Tobago area,
47:26but I'm not sure so much with the fraud, but we'll take that call and we'll touch on that.
47:31Hello, good evening.
47:33Yeah, listen to you, I'm your son.
47:35Sir, PCA, my son David West, is the problem in this country,
47:44because the PCA, these people are running to the PCA,
47:48I'm reporting police, police cannot do their job.
47:51Okay?
47:52They should have a police company authority to attend police too.
47:56Yes.
47:58Each of us, each institution, has its own mandate,
48:03and the mandate for these institutions were created because there was a need for it, right?
48:09I will say that every day I have a Mr. West, he has been a gentleman,
48:15and at the end of the day, at the end of the day, I'm a police officer, I am a police officer,
48:22but there is still need for an organisational institution to still hold us accountable.
48:28Yes.
48:29Yes, and to be honest, despite Ms. Christopher's best attempt, she cannot do it alone.
48:35So, the PCA is there to assist, and...
48:39That's where we are at at this time.
48:41That's where we are.
48:42Now, quickly, as mentioned in Tobago, are we seeing any serious fraudulent activities happening in the Tobago area?
48:49Well, I will say this much, in reviewing the reports, yes, there are one or two,
48:54I wouldn't say simple, but you know, little common ones with the ABM fraud and so on, right?
48:58Okay.
48:59Tobago, since yesteryear, there's always been a property with land in Tobago,
49:04and the transfer and conveyance of land,
49:06and I think one of our major problems in Tobago is that we have lands that hasn't been conveyed for generations upon generations,
49:13and when that is done and the land becomes stagnant in terms of transferring, it opens the avenue for forces to tap in.
49:22So, the Tobago office was created in an effort to act as a preventive measure.
49:29Yeah?
49:30Yes.
49:31Understood.
49:32We'll take a break when we come back, we'll wrap things up.
49:33We'll be back.
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52:11All right, so we are back and we have the opportunity, Sergeant, for you to speak to the public at this time.
52:16Ms. Whitney, what I want to advise the public is that when coming to the force to make reports,
52:21an assessment is done of the information you're provided.
52:24And not on every occasion the information provided may fall or have criminality in it.
52:32And as such, we may advise you, listen, your report doesn't meet the threshold for criminal law,
52:37breach of criminal law, and as such you'll be issued a report of information.
52:41What that simply means is that, and try to say it as politely as I can,
52:46is that law enforcement, we don't have any standing to initiate a criminal investigation
52:52because the information you are providing has no criminality in it.
52:56And therein, most of the times, we advise, listen, you need to seek the advice of a team at law,
53:02and I want to say I represent a team at law, you know, to take the matter in the civil arena, right?
53:08A lot of persons come to us, and whereas our officers are sympathetic,
53:13and we do have an understanding and appreciation of the report being made,
53:17the fraud squad and no member of the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service could get back monies for you.
53:24Make that clear.
53:26We are not in the business of debt recovery.
53:28We are in the business of investigating criminal conduct.
53:32And once there's a breach of the criminal law, the person would be charged.
53:36Once there's sufficient evidence, and placed before a competent legal authority to be adjudicated upon.
53:42So you find a lot of persons come and say, listen, boss, how long am I going to get my money, you know?
53:46And my officers are there, and they advise you.
53:49Listen, as much as we are willing to help you, we are statues and creatures of statute,
53:56so we cannot step out of bounds of the law, yes?
53:59So this is one of the things I want to reiterate to persons,
54:02and additionally, the changes of the new legislation with AJIPA, the Administrative Justice,
54:07now places additional legal requirements of persons coming to visit the office,
54:12not only in the fraud squad, but throughout the Trinidad and Tobago Police Service.
54:15Once a statement is given, you are not required by law to sign a reconnaissance form,
54:22and default is 500 dollars.
54:24Okay, and that means?
54:26That means that what the contents therein that you gave in your statement is true and factual.
54:30Okay, just to be clear for all.
54:32Yes, right?
54:33In layman's terms.
54:34In layman's terms, my apologies, right?
54:36So when the police officer asks you to sign this form, that is what it is.
54:39It is a legal requirement by law that is required to have your statement be accepted at the court level.
54:47Yes, so to receive money back, it will be in a civil realm to the court where a lawyer will step in,
54:54or where there's evidence showing when a report is done and an investigation happens within the TTPS,
54:59and it shows that yes, this person or persons, or even if you don't find the individual at this time,
55:04that it could be used for the financial institution to see that someone, which is not you,
55:09stole money from you in a fraudulent way, and if the money is insured, depending on how, again,
55:17it's not on the TTPS, I'm just making it clear so persons can understand.
55:21And I'll tell you this much.
55:22The financial institutions, which are our stakeholders, have worked hand-in-hand with the fraud squad.
55:26We have a very good relationship, and as such, many times when persons are defrauded in a car, used and so on,
55:31these institutions refund their clients.
55:33Yes, once it shows that it's legitimate.
55:35Exactly, once it shows that you're not part and parcel of the fraud scheme.
55:38Yes, not the TTPS.
55:39Not the TTPS.
55:40The TTPS will not bring you back your money, but they will capture the individual or individuals.
55:44They will try to best assist you otherwise.
55:45Yes.
55:46Yes.
55:47All right, so we just want to make sure to be clear on that.
55:48Anything else you'd like to mention?
55:50You have 30 seconds before you...
55:52No, again, I want us to reiterate, edification, due diligence, verification, and if it's too good to be true.
55:58It is.
55:59It is.
56:00Yes.
56:01Yes.
56:02Thank you so much, our attorney-at-law from the fraud squad, Sergeant Bazarat, for being here with us this evening.
56:05Thank you so much for having me.
56:06We appreciate you with all the information.
56:07I hope you'll be back again, because I have more I want to discuss and more to learn how we can protect ourselves when it comes to these fraudsters we have out there.
56:15Right now, we get ready for our news coming up next at 7 o'clock.
56:18And don't forget, the show is on tomorrow at 4.45, and then you'll get the news and cricket following that.
56:25TNT, always remember, be pure and just, and have God in your life no matter what.
56:29We'll be back tomorrow.
56:30God spare life.
56:31We're out.
56:48We're out.
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