00:00Talk about Deshaun's comments today as we get you ready for the Tampa Bay game.
00:04We head out to the wise heart, right?
00:05We make it right.
00:06Call Kyle Wright hotline.
00:08Talk to another member of that damn media.
00:12Oh, she is going to make us all very sick here with her very sky high expectations for
00:17Deshaun Watson.
00:18She joins us every single Wednesday here, Cleveland.com and the orange and brown talk
00:23podcast.
00:24Ashley Bastock joins us now.
00:25Ashley, are you willing to repent for your consistent high expectations for Deshaun
00:32Watson?
00:33Boy, were those some interesting comments made today, guys.
00:37I don't know.
00:38I feel like you just want like my take on it.
00:40Should we just jump right in, not even give ourselves a chance to go off the rails?
00:43I think so.
00:44That makes sense.
00:45Water's wet.
00:46Yeah.
00:47You know what?
00:47I think it's interesting.
00:49And comments like that kind of continue to show for me that like he is bothered by the
00:55narrative surrounding him.
00:57And it makes me wonder again, if he is still the starter after this week two game and is
01:03starting that week three home opener against the Panthers, like what is this going to look
01:09like?
01:10And is he prepared to handle negative reaction?
01:14Because like, of course, I think that statement was very hyperbolic.
01:18I don't I haven't seen anyone in the media suggesting that this is a failure or any start
01:24of his is a failure if he doesn't throw for 400 yards and five touchdowns.
01:28I think actually we've all been pretty clear that like 2020 Deshaun Watson doesn't exist anymore
01:36and you really just sort of need serviceable quarterback play this year more than anything.
01:41So I think for him, it's more about just the chatter on social media in general, not like
01:47the media and in terms of the traditional media.
01:51But to me, like it just it's obviously not as, quote unquote, bad as his postgame press
01:59conference after that second preseason game against the Bills.
02:03But it is another thing that makes me question like, OK, if this pushback keeps coming, if this
02:08pushback gets worse from Browns fans, from social media, how is he going to handle that?
02:14Because so far we've seen, you know, just the sort of negative reaction in terms of it's
02:20very clear that it bothers him.
02:22And I think he has to find a way for it to truly not bother him or to stop it,
02:28which is
02:28by playing better.
02:29Yeah, it's a bad combo for me, actually.
02:31It's not only the idea that he can't read the room.
02:33It's then also comboed with the idea that Todd Munkin comes out here every day and acts
02:38as if that not only was he good, but there was a lot of really good things to take away
02:43from week one.
02:44And there's a lot that you can work with there.
02:46And it just it feels like it's like a one to punch of Munkin's credibility being tanked
02:50because of Deshaun and then Deshaun in turn doing nothing to help himself or anyone in
02:56the organization.
02:57Yeah, I mean, I think it's really interesting.
02:59And I think like the reality right now that that I keep thinking about is like amongst
03:04Browns fans, essentially, we all know.
03:07And I think it's fans at large that Shador Sanders, by contrast, is like so incredibly
03:13likable, right?
03:14I mean, he came to the NFL and had this huge draw on this huge fan base and his personality.
03:21People just kind of gravitate to.
03:23So I think, too, it's like that's also on the other side.
03:26And, you know, he's never Deshaun has never like talked about that.
03:30But for me, as like an observer of all this, it's a really distinct sort of difference between
03:37these two guys and the likability factor.
03:40And I do think it's like making fans to add to that, JP.
03:45Like they really are wanting, I think, the alternative because they're not getting good play on the
03:52field.
03:52And, hey, the other guys, they're not only more hopeful that Shador Sanders maybe could
03:57give them that, but he's also just like more likable, I think, for most of them.
04:02So I to me, it's like an undeniable part of dealing with this for sure.
04:08Ashley, Todd Munkin said today that this game isn't make or break for Deshaun Watson.
04:13I don't I know he has to say that.
04:15I don't know that that I believe him or that I want to believe him.
04:18But what's more important to Deshaun Watson keeping his job and being the starting quarterback
04:23of the of the Browns week three here at home, a win or a great stat line?
04:30I think honestly, and fans might be depressed by this, but I do think it's about the stat line,
04:36because what we saw out there on Sunday, there are so many other ways that this team plays like
04:43they did against the Jaguars, there are other reasons they could lose this game that aren't
04:48related to Deshaun Watson.
04:50And like it could be the offense as a whole and procedural issues.
04:54Right.
04:54It could be related to the defense, which suddenly I think a lot of folks have a lot of concerns
05:01about.
05:01So I do think like throwing for a ton of yards and not turning the ball over and completing
05:07a high percentage of your passes would go a long way.
05:11Is it going to like, well, the fans desire?
05:14No, probably not.
05:15But I think in terms of like keeping his own job in the building, him doing his job is the
05:21most important part of that.
05:22I don't know that a win sort of supersedes what his own stat line will look like.
05:28Was the defense the most surprising part of Sunday for yourself?
05:31Yeah, you know what?
05:33I think it was because like there's obviously still so many veterans on this defense and
05:39like I've raised concerns about, oh, the possibility of this group playing more zone just because
05:46they were the team that played by far and away the most man coverage last year.
05:51Right.
05:51That's like a Jim Schwartz hallmark.
05:53I think their personnel is really built for it, especially with Denzel Ward and Tyson Campbell
05:58as their two starting outside corners.
06:00So I think there was some concerns, but people asked me, you know, all since this game, like
06:07were there any warning signs that we were going to see what we did on Sunday?
06:09And my response was, well, like a lot of this stuff, the like disguising the zone looks,
06:14you know, even like three safety looks.
06:15Right.
06:15They weren't showing a lot of that in the preseason.
06:18So we could speculate like I've had concerns about this team and zone defense going back
06:22to like twenty twenty two.
06:24Right.
06:24Because that's really when this discussion started in earnest.
06:28And it was concerning to hear them talk so much about disguises like a lot of the time
06:33in camp.
06:33And I'm like, how is this going to work like this is going to be interesting?
06:36I think they need to change some things up.
06:38But how much are they actually going to change?
06:40And like Todd Munkin today, when he got asked about it, sort of said, you know, it's not
06:45like they didn't play zone before, which is true.
06:47But I do think like when you have a first time defensive coordinator, I wonder how much
06:52going back to the drawing board that Mike Rutenberg is going to do and Todd Munkin and sort of
06:58maybe figure out how to alter some things and maybe make things work.
07:03Some of these packages work a little better for the players they have and not just like
07:07designing what you think a perfect defense would look like in a vacuum.
07:12Actually, I understand process versus revolt or results rather is a huge talking point
07:18in pretty much every move that ever happens in every sport.
07:23But when it comes to the Browns, I just think it's fascinating that whether it's
07:28people that supported the move at the time or certainly the Browns themselves continue
07:32to defend and know the process of trading for Deshaun Watson and moving on from Baker
07:36Mayfield was the correct one simply because they got it so wrong on both accounts.
07:44Baker has been a better quarterback in Tampa Bay and certainly has had his career peak
07:48there and continued to win or at least be in the playoff picture while Deshaun really
07:53has been it's the worst trade in NFL history.
07:55I'm just where where do you stand now five years into the Deshaun Baker exchange for
08:01the Browns?
08:02Yeah, you know, I stand kind of where I've stood the last three years, which is I really
08:08believe Baker Mayfield would not have become that guy here, which is what I tried to tell
08:13fans or like my friends and family when they, you know, have this, I think, understandable
08:18gripe, right?
08:19And saying, can't believe we have to watch this guy.
08:21This is the closest thing we've had to a franchise quarterback.
08:23And you guys let him walk out the door.
08:25But I think what one people forget, it's not like Baker left here, went to Tampa and was
08:30immediately amazing, right?
08:32Like it took them a while to find someone who wanted to trade for him.
08:35He went to Carolina.
08:36He took his lumps there.
08:38He was going to be the third string quarterback.
08:39He asked out, he landed in LA with Sean McVay.
08:43And I do think that was very, very pivotal in his career to do that.
08:49And then obviously he ends up in Tampa and has to fight for the starting job, wins it,
08:54and then gets in this amazing receiver room, which at the time is led by Mike Evans, who
09:00has all these career 1,000 yard seasons.
09:02And a guy like Chris Godwin, like these very sure of themselves veterans in a division that
09:09certainly at the time of that trade was worse than what the AFC North was over those years.
09:16Like it was just a less competitive division.
09:18And I think all those things helped him.
09:20I think he sort of had to hit rock bottom.
09:22Like he's talked at length about, you know, his marriage and his personal life.
09:27And obviously he's a dad now.
09:28I think he had a lot of growing up to do, and I don't know that it would have happened
09:33here.
09:34So I think too, with the Deshaun Watson trade itself, what I always tell people is at the
09:39time, number one, it's not like it was just the Browns going after him.
09:43There were like three other teams involved, including the Saints, including the Falcons.
09:48And two, that concerns people had about trading for Deshaun Watson were not related to his
09:55on-field play.
09:56Like it was all related to the off-the-field accusations, the potential distraction those
10:02might bring, obviously, as well as the behavior itself.
10:06So to me, in hindsight, like it's easy to obviously look at this and say, oh my gosh,
10:10they got this so wrong on both accounts.
10:12But I think like the truth is more somewhere in the middle.
10:17And I do think like largely Baker Mayfield had to go through a lot to get to the point
10:23he is now, and I don't think it would have happened here.
10:27All right, Ashley, you and Nick, you guys both said week one, it was going to be a win.
10:31You guys had the same score predicted for week one as well.
10:34And so you guys both had to own it.
10:35It was what it was.
10:36But now I have to ask you, are you on a probationary period with the Browns?
10:41Are you no longer picking them to win until they, in fact, do win a game?
10:44Or what's your plan?
10:45You know, that might be appropriate.
10:47I certainly know I am not picking them this week.
10:51So that I know.
10:53Yeah, it might be probationary.
10:55That might be a good way to look at it.
10:56I might not pick them again until they do win a game.
10:58But right now, after what we saw, like I said, there's just too many questions.
11:03It would be, I would feel crazy if I picked them in this game.
11:07And now, of course, I say that and 10 crazy things will happen between now and Sunday at
11:11four.
11:12But I'm definitely picking Tampa this week.
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