00:00She joins us every single Wednesday here during football season.
00:03We moved today to 420 because of the old practice dealio.
00:08And on the Wise Art Right, We Make It Right call, Kyle Wright,
00:11Hotline, Ashley Bastock of the Orange and Brown Talk podcast
00:14and Cleveland.com joins us now.
00:16Ashley, welcome to the show.
00:18Thanks for having me, guys.
00:21It is. That's great to have you.
00:22Did we call the quarterback competition too soon, Ashley?
00:26Does Shadour still have a real chance?
00:30You know what, guys?
00:30I don't think you're calling it too soon.
00:32I will say it just kind of has felt like it was going to be
00:36Deshaun Watson's Week 1 job since, really since to me,
00:40since Todd Munkin said he was going to start that first preseason game
00:43against the Bears.
00:44Like, I thought that was significant, especially knowing this second
00:48preseason game that he's been saying Shadour was going to start
00:52is coming after a joint practice.
00:54And everyone knows that those preseason games after joint practices
00:58are essentially moot points.
01:00But we know that all of the veterans won't be playing in that game too.
01:05So I think when Deshaun Watson was named that starter,
01:08when he went out there and did, like, the game managing type of stuff,
01:12that it really just, to me, sort of solidified the Week 1 job for him.
01:16Now, I'm saying the Week 1 job because I still, like,
01:19firmly believe we're going to see both these guys start games
01:22at some point this season,
01:23especially when you consider Deshaun Watson's injury history.
01:26But, yeah, I mean, I know they don't want to call it yet.
01:29I think they have their reasons for why they're not.
01:32But to me, it certainly feels like it's a done deal here.
01:36This has, like, kind of transitioned for me.
01:38Deshaun told you guys at the podium today he doesn't care whether or not
01:41he gets booed or the fan reaction to when he actually gets in the game on Saturday.
01:45Do you feel like he does care, in fact, what the fans have to say?
01:49You know, I think that's sort of the million-dollar, $230 million question,
01:54if we want to say that.
01:56Because I say this all the time with players.
01:58Like, I think when they talk to us, when coaches talk to us,
02:01they want to act like these guys can shut anything out, right?
02:04And I think to a large extent they can.
02:06I think most of them are pretty elite at compartmentalizing.
02:10You have to be.
02:11But at the same time, my argument is nothing exists in a vacuum.
02:15So he can say he doesn't care.
02:17But I think, like, I'm curious to see how he's going to handle that.
02:21I do think, I mean, the Browns have to have at least some curiosity
02:24about how he's going to handle that.
02:26I keep thinking about that Todd Munkin answer after the Bears game on Saturday
02:31where he sort of acknowledged the frustration that fans have had
02:35with Deshaun Watson in the past, right?
02:37So I think the team is obviously aware.
02:40It would be hard not to be aware.
02:42But I think I don't know the answer to exactly how he's going to handle that.
02:47I think we're going to have to see over this week
02:50and then presumably over the third preseason game if he would play in that one.
02:54Actually, I thought it was interesting.
02:55He cleared the first bar for me on this last Saturday.
02:59I said I needed him to look like a professional quarterback, right?
03:02I needed him to go out there and just kind of be.
03:06He didn't need to be spectacular, and he cleared that bar, by the way.
03:09But I think it's interesting because there are a couple more bars
03:12from where he is now or at that first bar to where he was in Houston in 2020.
03:20What's the next bar for Deshaun to clear?
03:24I think for me it would be seeing can this guy still make game-changing plays
03:29because I agree with you, Nick.
03:30That was kind of my exact read on the situation.
03:32Again, I think he did the game manager stuff that he needed to do.
03:36He did the sort of procedural stuff.
03:38He led drives that led to points on the board,
03:41even though he himself did not throw a touchdown.
03:45So those are things we know matter to Todd Munkin as he's installing a new offense.
03:49But for me, the next step would be, okay,
03:52can he get back to making obviously these explosive sort of plays
03:57that you just obviously need to be able to do if you're a functioning offense in the NFL?
04:02I know I think the stat was going around after that Chicago game
04:05about his lack of yards in the air.
04:07Like, that is the next step.
04:09And, you know, to Shador Sanders' credit,
04:11I think, like, he stayed in this competition
04:13and has remained enticing because he can make throws,
04:16like that throw he made to Luke Floria,
04:18like the one he made to Gage Larvidan,
04:20where they are these explosive plays.
04:22And those look good.
04:24So I do think we just need to see that sort of thing from Deshaun Watson
04:29on top of all this game managing stuff.
04:31But I agree.
04:31I mean, the first step was seeing, like,
04:33does this guy just look totally rattled when he's out there
04:35and actually getting hit?
04:36And, you know, I don't think he did.
04:38But now it's going to be time, the next steps to up the production.
04:42How bad was Deshaun today at practice?
04:45Well, I mean, he threw two more picks today
04:48and another near pick to Emmanuel McNeil-Warren.
04:52I know two of the balls were intended for Gage Larvidan
04:56on the near pick and the second pick he threw.
04:59And the first one was intended for Tylan Wallace.
05:02So, you know, I think that is sort of a tough day
05:06when you're throwing picks when you haven't been.
05:08But also I think when you're not with the starters,
05:10that is, you know, take it with a grain of salt a little bit.
05:14We've seen that throughout camp with both guys.
05:16So, and also the thing about today's practice,
05:19it just kind of felt like nothing overall.
05:21Like, I don't know how much stock I would put in today
05:23just because of that.
05:24It felt like they were in shorts.
05:27You didn't see some key veterans out there
05:29or key veterans who just were not doing a lot today.
05:33So I really think everyone's kind of saving it for tomorrow.
05:36And, like, it just wasn't a good, you know,
05:38hard-fought day overall is kind of how I would characterize today.
05:42You said tomorrow the joint practice with the Bills.
05:46It does feel like we're getting a German suplex or two
05:49for every training camp joint practice.
05:53I'll ask you, are we expecting fisticuffs tomorrow with the Bills?
05:57You know, I'm really curious.
05:59Todd Munkin today, it was funny, like,
06:01talking about these other fights that have happened.
06:03He's like, you do all you can to try to stop them.
06:06But, you know, you're kind of at a loss.
06:08Because, of course, like, coaches go into them and say,
06:11hey, absolutely no fighting.
06:12Do not fight under any circumstances.
06:14And then suddenly the fur is flying, so to speak.
06:18So, I mean, the people I'm most curious about are Jared Burse,
06:22who we know talks nonstop.
06:24Same thing with Quincy Williams, the linebacker behind him.
06:27Those two guys, they love to talk.
06:30They use it to hype themselves up.
06:32They think it hypes their teammates up.
06:34And Jared Burse this week talked about how he's played against Deion Dawkins
06:37before the Bills left tackle.
06:39And those two really got into it in that game when he was with the Rams.
06:43So, I'm curious about that.
06:44I'm also curious about Quinshawn Judkins.
06:46He wasn't out here today.
06:47He was dealing with something minor, the team said.
06:50But we know Quinshawn gives it right back to them.
06:52And he likes to talk.
06:54He's a fiery guy.
06:56So, you know, Todd Munkin is stressing no fighting.
06:59I'm hoping they got it all out of their system with some of these,
07:03you know, sort of frowned upon hits yesterday that caused practice to end early.
07:08But we'll see.
07:09Like, to be determined.
07:10I think you can never predict that stuff with these joint practices.
07:13What will concern you more tomorrow with these joint practices?
07:16The Browns offense getting dominated or the defense getting dominated?
07:21Ooh, that's a really good question.
07:23I would say the defense, right?
07:25And for me, it would be the defense because I think everyone's expecting that the defense is going to still
07:31be okay.
07:32Like, that has been the expectation, right?
07:34Without, even after the Miles Garrett trade, without Jim Schwartz as the coordinator,
07:39people are really happy with the return on Jared Verce.
07:42And, you know, I kind of hesitated because obviously, like, some guys like Carson Schlesinger have been banged up, right?
07:48So, I think rationally you're not going to get a full picture of that, assuming he's not going to be
07:53out there practicing.
07:54But I think it would be disconcerting to see the defense come out here tomorrow and just totally lay an
08:00egg or get beat up
08:02because that's the side of the ball people are less worried about right now.
08:06So, I think that's why I'd lean that direction.
08:09Ashley, one pretty common recent criticism of the Browns roster is depth.
08:15And I've heard people attribute depth issues to why they think the Browns won't be that good.
08:20I think that is a fair thing that people underestimate can sink a team.
08:24But do you think the Browns have a depth issue?
08:27Well, I mean, the handful of places that I am worried about right now, like, I mean, I would say
08:32corner.
08:33Your depth at corner.
08:34Like, I'm watching now and thinking, like, what are they going to do if something, a serious injury happens to,
08:41like, Tyson Campbell or Denzel Ward?
08:43Because after that, I mean, we've seen it.
08:44We saw it in that preseason game on Saturday.
08:48It can get pretty bleak.
08:49And, I mean, linebacker-wise, of course, you have to worry about Carson Schlesinger.
08:53He's, like, the star of that unit now.
08:55So, you hope that he's going to be ready to go and up to speed by week one.
08:59And then, I don't know.
09:00I feel like I'm less worried.
09:01We talked, I think, about running back depth in the spring.
09:05Like, I guess that's still sort of a concern.
09:08Like, just because I think Dylan Stamson has had a really nice camp, but you worry about his durability.
09:14So, I think, like, those are the areas for me that I'm starting to or still questioning some depth things.
09:21But in any of those cases, it's not the top of the room, obviously, right?
09:26It really is, like, corner talking about your third, fourth, fifth corners, et cetera, at that point.
09:32Yeah, and you're definitely fair to question that, obviously.
09:34But I did want to ask about Michael Coach, Jr., who had another pick today as well, had the pick
09:38in Saturday's game.
09:39We're big, Coach, guys.
09:40We're in the armoire with him.
09:42He's just making all sorts of plays, Ashley.
09:45Yeah, you know what?
09:46I said it was unfortunate that he got hurt on Saturday.
09:49But thankfully, you know, he's since come back, so it's good whatever bothered him after he made that play on
09:53Saturday
09:55hasn't infected him the rest of the week.
09:58So, that's good.
09:58But I certainly think he's a guy that I would think is going to essentially play himself onto this roster
10:05with these plays that he's made.
10:07I mean, I think he's looked pretty good.
10:09And if he can stay healthy, that would be a win right now for them.
10:12Because, again, that's a position group where there are depth questions.
10:15So, there is room for somebody like him to sort of play their way onto that 53, I think.
10:22All right, Ashley.
10:23I know Todd Munkin today talked about ending practice prematurely yesterday because of yet another overly physical moment there.
10:32I know we talked about the joint practice fight.
10:34But do you think the feistiness of the practices between the offense and the defense, do you see that as
10:41a good sign or a bad sign?
10:43I see it as a good sign because I don't think they've crossed the line.
10:46And, you know, I thought this yesterday, and Todd Munkin made it clear today, he felt like the same, that
10:51there wasn't anything dirty yesterday.
10:53It was just almost like it was getting too physical and you didn't want it to get to the point
10:58where something dirty would happen or there would be, you know, a brawl or a mini brawl.
11:03So, he just felt like it was best to call it at that point before anyone, to use his phrase,
11:09got totally emotionally hijacked.
11:12So, I like the competitiveness.
11:14I do think, I always say with defenses especially, and especially with this young defense, like, you kind of need
11:22some guys who are just, like, willing to play with their hair on fire, willing to play a little bit
11:28crazy.
11:28And I think Jared Burse and Quincy Williams fit that build to me.
11:33And before, I mean, I've seen this defense where it's good, but everyone's just kind of quiet, right?
11:37Like, Denzel Ward's kind of a quiet guy.
11:39Carson Schlesinger doesn't say much.
11:41Miles Garrett was a quiet guy.
11:42Like, they needed, I think, a little bit different of energy coming into this season.
11:48And I think the defense has upped the level of play with that for some of these younger guys on
11:53offense.
11:54Like, obviously, that back and forth with Burse and Fano was essentially the decision maker in Spencer Fano winning the
12:00starting left tackle job.
12:01So, I overall, I think it hasn't crossed any lines.
12:04I like it.
12:05I think it's good for a young football team to sort of have that fight.
12:08And the Fano thing is the genesis of my thought that I feel like, and tell me if you just
12:12think I'm wrong, I feel like Munkin loves this, loves the fights, loves all this action that's attached to it,
12:18the energy that is attached to it.
12:19I know they're not supposed to, but it does, I do get the impression that Munkin loves it.
12:24Yeah, I mean, the Fano thing kind of, I think, sells that point, right?
12:29Because it's a fine line.
12:31I think, like, he loves it, you know, to that fine line point that you don't want anything dirty happening
12:36or overly physical.
12:37But that moment sort of was a tone-setting moment.
12:41So, I think he loves it.
12:43I think he loves that hard-nosed football.
12:45They want that identity for this team.
12:48So, it's like, how could you not love it as long as no one's crossing any major boundaries or, like,
12:53throwing punches or, you know, hitting the quarterback?
12:56I think it's all in the sake of developing that culture right now.
13:01I got to say, Ashley, we've been on such a streak here, Jonathan and I, have, of not taking these
13:06interviews off the rail,
13:07that if there's some sort of local media award you would like to put us up for, we will graciously
13:13accept that award on behalf of our professionalism in the last three, maybe four weeks now.
13:19I think we opened the convo talking about a tugboat's nickname, though.
13:22We did it before you got on.
13:23Yeah, but we never brought it on air.
13:25We separated.
13:26It's within the segment, though.
13:28Does that still count, Ashley?
13:29Are we good?
13:30Yeah, you did it just now, though.
13:32So, I think that counts.
13:33I'm bringing it up again.
13:35I was going to ignore it.
13:36So, I think you guys, I think you guys kind of ruined it for yourselves there.
13:39I don't know.
13:40I would like to say Jonathan ruined it for us.
13:42I didn't want it bad enough.
13:43And maybe Cleveland, but, yeah.
13:44Didn't want it bad enough.
13:45We'll put a call in, we'll put a call into New York and have the league office review it.
13:49How about that?
13:50Is that also going to take 27 hours like the one on Saturday?
13:53Probably.
13:54Ashley, good stuff.
13:55Appreciate you.
13:56Thanks, guys.
13:58Ashley Bastock there, Cleveland.com, and the Orange and Brown Talk podcast on the Wise Heart Right.
14:02We make it right.
14:03Call Kyle Ryan Hotline.
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