00:00Let's talk to our buddy, Adam the Bull.
00:02Adam, happy Victory Monday.
00:03How are you feeling today?
00:05I'm feeling great.
00:06How are you guys doing?
00:07We're good.
00:07Obviously, just enjoying the win
00:09and then trying to really figure out
00:10where everyone stands with Deshaun Watson right now.
00:12Five more years of Deshaun, right, Bull?
00:14Yeah, Spencer wanted the chance.
00:15We did not get the chant going.
00:16Maybe three.
00:17Maybe only three.
00:19I'll settle for three.
00:21Adam, for myself?
00:22By the way, guys, I asked a question today,
00:25and I'm curious your take on this.
00:27I'm sorry to thwart you here.
00:29But wouldn't you, at this moment,
00:32and this is coming from someone who, you know,
00:35I'm not saying Deshaun Watson's playing great.
00:37I mean, he's had his moments.
00:38He's had some big spots in the fourth quarter.
00:41But as much as the Browns have been killed
00:43and we've killed them,
00:44at this moment, with what's remaining
00:47on both of their contracts,
00:49wouldn't you rather have the Browns with Deshaun Watson
00:53than the Bucs with Baker Mayfield from this moment on?
00:56Well, yeah, because you're going to have a fresh start
00:57at the end of the season.
00:59That's right.
01:00So Baker's contract works.
01:03Well, the sad part is they just gave Baker's contract
01:05like three weeks ago.
01:07I know.
01:07He's got this answer already.
01:09It has not come.
01:09I know.
01:10It's been brutal.
01:12I get why you'd want to relitigate that,
01:14but it's fine.
01:16We don't have to do the Baker Wars here.
01:18It's okay.
01:19The Baker Wars.
01:20Yeah, the Baker Wars.
01:21All right.
01:21Let me ask you about Deshaun, though,
01:22because it's kind of been a fight all day long.
01:24I've admitted, I think the, I still don't believe in Deshaun,
01:27but I'm starting to believe in the Browns team
01:29is where I'm kind of standing on this.
01:31Like, I don't think, I don't think he's the long-term quarterback.
01:34I don't think he's going to be the one that, you know,
01:3725 years of Browns bad quarterbacks is,
01:39is taken away with Deshaun Watson just going off to the races.
01:42But I'll acknowledge he was awesome in the fourth quarter yesterday,
01:46in a very good fourth quarter.
01:48So I, out of a bad three quarters and then a good fourth quarter,
01:52I've settled.
01:53That's where I'm at with Deshaun.
01:54Where are you at with Deshaun?
01:56Yeah.
01:56I mean, I think I'm in a similar,
01:57but there's no way he's the long-term answer.
02:00Anybody saying he's the long-term answer now is just kidding themselves.
02:02I mean, that's, it's ridiculous.
02:04There's no way they're going to resign him at the end of the year.
02:07It would be just the stupidest move ever.
02:10But that doesn't mean we can't admit that he's played a little better than we
02:13thought.
02:14The first game was terrible.
02:16The second game was good.
02:17The third game was pretty bad until the fourth quarter,
02:21but the fourth quarter is where it matters.
02:22Now the defense obviously gave him a chance because they kept them in the game
02:27the whole time and allowed him to have those opportunities to do what he did
02:32at the end.
02:33But come on,
02:34the overall play of Deshaun Watson has been through three games.
02:39I would say has been okay,
02:40but that's a lot better than I thought.
02:42I thought he'd be the worst quarterback in the NFL and he was for week one,
02:46but since then he hasn't been.
02:47So I think we got to,
02:49everybody's got to be realistic.
02:50Like just because he had a good,
02:52one good game and one good quarter in this game,
02:56we can't lose our minds and now try to convince ourselves.
02:58He he's becoming what we thought he would be five years ago.
03:01That's not happening,
03:02but he's been a part of the wins.
03:05There's no doubt about it.
03:06And he's made some big throws in the fourth quarter,
03:09both weeks two and week three to lead the team to wins.
03:14That's true.
03:15There's no denying that.
03:16So bull off of that.
03:18Yeah.
03:19What we know what the situation was going into week two,
03:21where if he had played poorly and the Browns had lost,
03:24he was most likely going to get benched.
03:26And how,
03:26how far down the road is he kind of kicked the can on conversations about
03:30whether or not he should keep the job?
03:32Like,
03:32is this still a sort of week to week with him?
03:34Is it something where now we're talking like,
03:36we don't have to revisit this till November now.
03:38Like he's bought himself that much time.
03:40Like,
03:40where are you sort of at with that?
03:42I mean,
03:43I think for me personally,
03:47I,
03:47you know,
03:48I,
03:48I think he's bought himself at least three more weeks.
03:52I don't think he's,
03:52I don't think it's like,
03:54well,
03:54he's going to get the whole season no matter what now,
03:56unless he gets hurt.
03:57I don't buy that at all,
03:58but I mean,
03:59they're,
04:00they're two and one and they have two winnable games coming up.
04:03So if he even splits the next two between Pittsburgh and the jets,
04:07I mean,
04:08he's going to remain the quarterback of the future or quarterback,
04:12the future,
04:12the quarterback for the future of the season.
04:15And I step in that there.
04:17Yeah.
04:18More.
04:20I'm just kidding.
04:21You know,
04:22no,
04:22but because like this,
04:24let's face it guys,
04:25here's the reality.
04:26No matter what you or I may think of Shador Sanders,
04:30that clearly the coach doesn't believe in him.
04:32The last coach didn't believe in him.
04:34And this coach didn't really believe in Deshaun either.
04:36If we,
04:37if we believe the reports that he was going to be gone after week two.
04:40So like,
04:41you know,
04:42I think he decided that Deshaun was the best of a bad lot,
04:47but the idea that I don't,
04:49I think there's almost no chance that any quarterback on this roster is the
04:54starter week one next year.
04:55I think it's very unlikely.
04:57Unlikely,
04:58unless they do the thing where they draft a quarterback and then have to
05:00play a different,
05:01if they do the Drake may in new England,
05:03where for five weeks,
05:04they just do a different quarterback.
05:05Like that is a possibility,
05:07but I understand your main point.
05:09Yeah.
05:09But even if they do that,
05:10Jonathan,
05:11I doubt it's going to be the guys that are here.
05:13I think you,
05:14if you,
05:15if you wanted to do that,
05:16then you go get a veteran,
05:18not Deshaun Watson to be the,
05:20the temporary,
05:21because what would be the point?
05:22You're not going to re-sign Watson.
05:23You're not going to keep Shador Sanders around.
05:26I think the point is,
05:27is that I don't believe in it,
05:29but there are enough coaches out there that just believe if you draft a
05:31quarterback,
05:32a rookie like that,
05:33you have to do basically what the Raiders are doing with Mendoza or what the
05:36Browns did with Baker,
05:37with Hugh Jackson.
05:38Again,
05:38I think it's flawed thinking,
05:39but there are enough coaches,
05:40old school coaches out there that feel like you have to have somebody for five,
05:44six weeks as the,
05:45as the rookie gets a little bit more rare and rarer though.
05:47It's incredibly rare to begin with.
05:49Again,
05:49that's why I can only come up with Baker and Mendoza as two examples off the
05:53top of my head.
05:54Well,
05:54Mahomes was different because that team was actually like really ready to go.
05:58And it's,
05:58I think it's a different circumstance,
06:00but like,
06:01but yeah,
06:03go ahead.
06:03No,
06:04sorry guys.
06:04I was talking with Herm Edwards recently on my podcast and he,
06:09he said to me,
06:11I don't understand why first round quarterbacks don't start week one.
06:14I would,
06:15it makes no sense.
06:16They all should.
06:17Right.
06:18But that being said,
06:19like,
06:20even if the Browns are of that mindset,
06:23then you go sign,
06:24you know,
06:25case Keenum or somebody like that.
06:27And,
06:27you know,
06:28or Kirk cousins.
06:29So are you trading Gabriel and all these other guys in the process?
06:33So you're just going to use to say,
06:34I don't think any of them are on the roster next year.
06:37That's my prediction.
06:38Yeah.
06:38You might be right.
06:39I mean,
06:39even just from the idea that the new starter,
06:42you just want to give them his brand new clean slate and not have to deal with
06:45any of the other stuff.
06:46Even if we know that your door has not been a problem as a backup,
06:49but like it's still,
06:50I,
06:50I get it.
06:51I totally get it.
06:52No,
06:52should door has done nothing wrong.
06:54I,
06:55not at all,
06:56but he,
06:57he,
06:57it would be a distraction just because of the,
06:59of the fit,
07:00the way some fans react to him.
07:02And it would be something you wouldn't want to deal with with a first round
07:05quarterback.
07:06All right,
07:07Adam,
07:07the,
07:07uh,
07:07I read the stat off earlier.
07:09I think you'll find interesting.
07:10The 63% pressure rate by the Browns was the highest single game pressure rate by any defense
07:16in a game this season.
07:18So that's obviously not just the Browns.
07:20That's any team,
07:21any game this season.
07:22Tell me what you saw.
07:23Mason Graham,
07:25Jared verse.
07:26It felt like everyone all day was just hounding Bryce young.
07:30I thought they did a great job.
07:31And the defense,
07:32I thought that the defense would take a big step back this year.
07:35And after the first week,
07:37I was like,
07:38okay,
07:38well,
07:38I guess I was right.
07:39And I was making fun of the defensive coordinator with a stupid backwards hat,
07:42but don't I look like an idiot now because he's done a great job and all kudos to him.
07:47And you mentioned Mason Graham.
07:48And I think guys,
07:50uh,
07:50I don't know how you feel,
07:51but like last year I didn't love the pick.
07:54And I was like,
07:55you know,
07:56why are you taking a defensive tackle in the top five?
07:58That's very rare.
07:59He better be a superstar.
08:00And he was good as a rookie,
08:02but he didn't blow me away.
08:04Well,
08:04he's like a different player right now.
08:06He looks different physically.
08:08He looks like a last year.
08:09He looked like a big kid to me.
08:10This year.
08:10He looks like a man.
08:12And he is just wreaking havoc out there.
08:14He has been fantastic.
08:15Now it's three games.
08:16I don't want to lose,
08:17you know,
08:17go too crazy,
08:18but through three games,
08:19he's playing as well.
08:21I mean,
08:21he's arguably been,
08:22I would say,
08:23along with Denzel Ward,
08:25the best player on the defense.
08:26I mean,
08:27he is making such an impact.
08:28In the middle of that line.
08:29And that sack he had on that fourth down play.
08:32I mean,
08:32that was the game.
08:33That was huge.
08:34So he's been unbelievable.
08:35And I think versus played better every game.
08:37I agree.
08:38He was,
08:38you know,
08:39some,
08:39you guys know that sometimes the stats,
08:42you know,
08:42for defensive players,
08:44this,
08:45this things that are not there that you see on the film that the
08:48coaches certainly see.
08:49But if you don't have the stats,
08:51the sacks,
08:52then people think,
08:52Oh,
08:53you're not having a particularly good game,
08:54which we know is not true,
08:55but the defensive line played really well.
08:58My Isaiah McGuire played well,
09:00but I think Mason Graham in particular,
09:02it's just been outstanding.
09:04So impressed.
09:04Adam,
09:06I want to go to baseball with you.
09:07We know,
09:07we know the guardians have the buy.
09:10And,
09:11and,
09:11and honestly,
09:11like people have been asking me if I literally,
09:14if I legitimately think the guardians have a chance to come out of the
09:16AL.
09:16And I keep saying yes,
09:17because I think this AL is pretty weak overall.
09:19Like every team is flawed.
09:20But as you think about how the guardians maybe stack the deck here a
09:24little bit,
09:25what would you trot out as the,
09:27the,
09:27the three sort of first pitchers in the rotation when they start this,
09:32this series next weekend?
09:34So the ALDS lines up perfectly because not only obviously do they get a
09:38buy,
09:39which I liked for them in particular,
09:42but because of the three days off in that series,
09:45the way it's scheduled,
09:46Gavin Williams and Parker Messick can pitch in theory.
09:49If the series went five games,
09:50they could pitch four of those five.
09:52So it's perfect.
09:53I know Gavin Williams pitched lousy against Kansas city the other day,
09:57which was a little concerning,
09:58but I would still pitch him game one.
10:00I'd go Messick game two.
10:02I go Foster Griffin three.
10:04And then if necessary,
10:05I go back to Williams and four and I go back to Messick and five.
10:09I I'm with you.
10:11I think they can get to the world series.
10:13In fact,
10:13I'm predicting them to lose the world series to the Braves.
10:16That's my prediction.
10:17I hope I'm wrong about that last part.
10:20I think they're going to,
10:21I think they're going to play the Astros and beat them.
10:24And then I think they're going to play Tampa and beat them.
10:27And then I think they're going to lose to the Braves in the world series,
10:29but let's hope I'm right about the first two parts and wrong about the last part.
10:33Yeah.
10:33That's the same pitching magic.
10:34I came up with a couple of days ago,
10:35same exact one,
10:36but the only worry I have,
10:37I think,
10:37and I think that's the right one,
10:38by the way,
10:39the only worry I have is the guardians really love Tanner Bybee in a way that the
10:42fans just don't.
10:43That's why I was curious.
10:45There's a love that that organization has for Bybee and a belief in Bybee that the,
10:49the guardians fan listening,
10:51we just all don't share that same belief,
10:53but they,
10:53I'm telling you guys,
10:54they believe in him in a way that we don't hear what you're saying,
10:57Jonathan,
10:57and you're right.
10:58And I actually,
10:59I think Bybee in general is,
11:02is an okay pitcher,
11:03but he's been so bad lately.
11:05And overall this year,
11:06I don't think I wouldn't even have him on the roster for the first round.
11:10I'd have him on the roster for the,
11:12you know,
11:12the ALCS when it's a longer series,
11:15you know,
11:16but I would once I,
11:18even in the ALCS though,
11:20when I need a fourth starter for game four,
11:22I'm starting Cantillo or Cantillo after an opener ahead of Bybee.
11:26Now they might not do that.
11:27You might be right.
11:28They may just want to use Cantillo as a relief pitcher in the playoffs.
11:31And maybe when they go to a seven game series,
11:33but to me and Foster Griffin hasn't been great for the guardians,
11:37but to me,
11:38it's a no brainer Foster Griffin over Bybee for that third spot.
11:42All right.
11:42Let me ask you this.
11:43Are the guardians on a free roll of sorts for this playoffs?
11:46Do they have to win a series in order to make the season a success?
11:49Or because you got the two seed and the by,
11:51we're just playing with house money now.
11:54I am glad you asked me this,
11:55John,
11:56I think because I was listening to you and Nick,
11:57I can't remember when it was now.
12:00It was last week Friday.
12:01Yeah.
12:01Last week.
12:02Yeah.
12:02Yeah.
12:02And yeah.
12:03And you guys were talking and Nick was out of his mind.
12:06I don't know what he said.
12:09Like he said,
12:10listen,
12:11I am a,
12:11I love what the guardians do and getting to the playoffs for the eighth
12:16time in 11 years with the payroll,
12:18with the owner spending no money is,
12:20is in itself a good accomplishment on one level.
12:23But if they lose in the first round to the Astros or the white Sox,
12:28that's a huge bust.
12:30That's not a successful season.
12:32I think if they,
12:33if they lost it in a tough ALCS to the Yankees,
12:37the red Sox or,
12:38or the Rays in a six,
12:39seven game series,
12:40I'm not going to be happy,
12:41but I'd be like,
12:42all right,
12:42you know,
12:43but I think Zach Meisel is right.
12:45I know you guys referenced Zach and Zach and I talk about it.
12:48And one of these days,
12:49they got to win it all.
12:51Now this,
12:52this season again,
12:53with the,
12:53with,
12:53with the payroll and so many young players,
12:56I wouldn't kill them if they lost the six,
12:58seven game hard fought series in the ALCS.
13:01And I certainly wouldn't kill them if they lost the world series.
13:04Cause the national league is just loaded.
13:05All six teams are really good.
13:07But if they lose in the first round,
13:09that's a huge bust.
13:10And even if they get to the ALCS and get smoked to me,
13:13it's a huge disappointment.
13:15So my bar for a good,
13:17for a good season in the end is a,
13:19you know,
13:20a competitive ALCS,
13:21anything short of that is a huge disappointment for me.
13:24So my bar for a good,
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